Calling all Muslims!! Defend the Faith!!

[Saifullah]

While i was surfing the net, as one does, all peacefully minding my own business and come accross this ...

... http://www.moslem.org/fhome.asp

... thought oh wow! another muslim forum, once i looked at the postings and within 2 mins!! had 5 cardiac attacks!!

Having recovered, i realised, that this is a devilish site!! under the pretext of Islam and Muslims.

These people, reject hadeeth completely and only follow the qur'an, yes they have many names a few of them are Ahle Qur'an, Qura'anis, Pervazis, Submitters. Wide spread scholarly consensus from east and west of the muslim world, from various sects who are usually divided, have come together and declare such beliefs and ideas as clear cut Kufr!!

I would love to spend time and refute these bone heads, and take their aqeedah atom by atom apart, but i dont have the time, and require your help to log on and post a few posts againts their kufr!

In defence of the deen of Islam, and the scared hadeeth of our beloved prophet Muhammed, on him be the most perfect peace and blessings of Allah, exalted is He.

Fight your cyber jihad againts Falsehood!

Destroy them, oh defenders of Islam!

[niqaabi_18]

ya allah
this is bad news
im gna go to that site and demolish them foreva........too many silly ppl out der..

[niqaabi_18]

hmm
its a crap website..aint all dat

[Saifullah]

Im outraged !! look at this ... i found on that site!

SELAM,


Here are some places where commantments that GOD makes that we must never follow any Hadith But the QURAN!

Sura 31 Ayah 6
"Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of GOD without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution."

and

Sura 77 Ayah 50
"Which Hadith, other than this, do they uphold?"

I am sure most of you that who visit this Forum know this but I am suprised that no one has made it clear for the people that dont.

another

Sura 45 Ayah 6
"These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?"

GOD BLESS

Look how they distort the Book of Allah!! , These people are attacking islam from within, them and the Ahmediyyah/Qadiyyanis

[Arsalan]

this demonic people exists since the beginning of the prophets mission, in the early times.

i thikn it would be a good job for Bro Bubble Buster and Bro Moyaad certaintly!

wasalaam.

[Saifullah]

this demonic people exists since the beginning of the prophets mission, in the early times.

i thikn it would be a good job for Bro Bubble Buster and Bro Moyaad certaintly!

wasalaam.

definitely the buster needs to bust these people.

Im sure she will, sure hope so!

[Saifullah]

hmm
its a crap website..aint all dat

yeah its a crap site, but none the less, it will sooner or later capture and convert people to their ways, and we need to stop their propaganda machines and sites and stomp out their voices!

lol, im still so outraged! can you tell?!

[niqaabi_18]

too many besharam loag out der
we need to throw bombs at that forum...and missilies..and and and ..the list goes on
lol..im just joking

[Khadhijah]

While i was surfing the net, as one does, all peacefully minding my own business and come accross this ...

... http://www.moslem.org/fhome.asp


These people, reject hadeeth completely and only follow the qur'an, yes they have many names a few of them are Ahle Qur'an, Qura'anis, Pervazis, Submitters. Wide spread scholarly consensus from east and west of the muslim world, from various sects who are usually divided, have come together and declare such beliefs and ideas as clear cut Kufr!!


Subhana Allah!!!

[Saifullah]

Look at this, the plot thinkens,

this is the sister 3 days prior, refuting them:

Asalam alaykum Devoted,


This is what you typed as translation for Sura 31 Ayah 6

Sura 31 Ayah 6
"Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of GOD without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution."

??Where did you get the word Hadith from ??

......

......
It seems to me that you are trying to change the words of The Holy Quran!
Hmmmmmmmm I am a knew Muslim and there is a lot that I do not know and a lot I need to learn and even maybe a lot that I am not doing right but, at least if I am doing them wrong I am not making them up . And one thing I know for sure is that I should never add or delete any words to any Sura. I can say what I think it means but, never to change the words. When you use a Sura as reference you should take it as it is then add what you think it means.
Allah hafez

and then, after 3 days:

Asalam alaykum to all


My apologies to devoted because you are right damon i do not know how to read arabic. I have checked several transalation other then the 3 mentioned and i am presently trying what you suggested.

I am a very sensitive person and i do not mean to insult anyone is just that what you are saying about hadeths , translations , shahada and the way of prayer and even the number of prayers is what i have learned about Islam and what most Muslims all over the middle east lean and do.

I don't understand how so many people cannot understand what you are saying. They understand arabic as you do so why is it not clear to them.

In the past few days of reading this forum I have kind of reverted myself back in a sense to the way i felt about my old religion and to me that is not a good thing.

Islam means alot to me and the reasons i converted mean even more. And now i feel that there is nothing that i can trust ....not even the Quran that i read and that i had planned to complete by the end of Ramadan.

I remain totally confused as to how so many arabic speaking people can misunderstand what is so clear as you say...............???

When i was catholic i went my own way and believed what i believed to be right because i felt that there was so much wrong in what i was taught

and here we go again right back to the begining

Jazak Allah if you are right and Allah forgive all who do not know that they are doing wrong.

salam



http://www.moslem.org/icon_go_up.gif (http://www.moslem.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=83&FORUM_ID=4&CAT_ID=4&Topic_Title=THE+QURAN+COMMANDS+WE+REJECT+HADITH&Forum_Title=Qur%27an+without+hadith#top)

her emaan has been shaken by them!
and now, she is probs one of them!

:crying:

:lahawla:

[niqaabi_18]

ya allah
astugfirallah
dis is dissapointing

[niqaabi_18]

if she cant trust the quran .. y is she a muslim for?

[Khadhijah]

Ina lillahi wa ina ileyhi raji'oon

The most vulnerable ppl to these kinds of websites are the newly revert Muslims. Subhana Allah they can easily be manipulated. Ok now im mad.

[Saifullah]

Ina lillahi wa ina ileyhi raji'oon

The most vulnerable ppl to these kinds of websites are the newly revert Muslims. Subhana Allah they can easily be manipulated. Ok now im mad.

Ive stopped reading that site, before i have sleepless nights, thinking of the next victim to their evil ...

[Makki]

why give the site the publicity? all you do by visiting is increase it popularity, best to ignore them or get a hacker on the case (hint-hint)

[bigmo]

Whats all this shouting and screaming for, defend the deen, from what. First of all to say that people who reject hadith are evil and kufar is ludicrous. I am not a convert but i am no pigeon either. Where is the kufr. Do you know what it means. Rejecting hadith has nothing to do with the prophet, it has to do with the way the hadeeth was compiled and authenticated. Many of you like me were brainwashed. We were told that these were the actual words of the prophet, yet when you investigate how the hadeeth was compiled and authenticated you will learn quickly that it was not scientific and perhaps not reliable. It was primitive and many ways bedouin.

Go read in your pigeon head how bukhari and muslim categorized the hadith 200 years and more after the prophets death. The miracle is in the koran and not in muslim and bukhari. The ummah you refer to came 230 years after the prophet was burried, they relied on oral speeches handed down 8 generation down. They relied on reputation of piety and memory, what the hell is that. Since when relying on reputation was scientific. Some defend the hadeeth that Allah gave the companions extra ordinary power of memory. But even then the companions long died before any of these hadith were compiled. When i say long gone i mean long gone.

Rather than shout and scream give evidence to support the validity and reliability of these hadith. Meanwhile stop using the word kufr, its beyond your scope, and liberate yourselves from the pigeon mentality.

[moshyman]

Whats all this shouting and screaming for, defend the deen, from what. First of all to say that people who reject hadith are evil and kufar is ludicrous. I am not a convert but i am no pigeon either. Where is the kufr. Do you know what it means. Rejecting hadith has nothing to do with the prophet, it has to do with the way the hadeeth was compiled and authenticated. Many of you like me were brainwashed. We were told that these were the actual words of the prophet, yet when you investigate how the hadeeth was compiled and authenticated you will learn quickly that it was not scientific and perhaps not reliable. It was primitive and many ways bedouin.

Go read in your pigeon head how bukhari and muslim categorized the hadith 200 years and more after the prophets death. The miracle is in the koran and not in muslim and bukhari. The ummah you refer to came 230 years after the prophet was burried, they relied on oral speeches handed down 8 generation down. They relied on reputation of piety and memory, what the hell is that. Since when relying on reputation was scientific. Some defend the hadeeth that Allah gave the companions extra ordinary power of memory. But even then the companions long died before any of these hadith were compiled. When i say long gone i mean long gone.

Rather than shout and scream give evidence to support the validity and reliability of these hadith. Meanwhile stop using the word kufr, its beyond your scope, and liberate yourselves from the pigeon mentality.

There is no Islam without hadith - Quran has all the laws in it and it is truth but The Prophet's (peace be upon him) words are what allow us to follow the laws.

A simple example is, "Aqeemas-Salah wa a tuz-zakaah" which appears in the quran and tells us to pray and pay zakaah, but it does not tell us how to pray and how much to pay. The words of our Beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) are what tell us. If the quran was filled with all these details, then it would be endless.

[bigmo]

There is no Islam without hadith - Quran has all the laws in it and it is truth but The Prophet's (peace be upon him) words are what allow us to follow the laws.

A simple example is, "Aqeemas-Salah wa a tuz-zakaah" which appears in the quran and tells us to pray and pay zakaah, but it does not tell us how to pray and how much to pay. The words of our Beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) are what tell us. If the quran was filled with all these details, then it would be endless.

I have been following this topic of hadeeth and believe the scholars today have not given us a good reason as to why the hadith plays such a pivotal role in islam today.

Mostly they have not given us an understanding of how reliable is the hadith compilation and categorization techniques and why is it authentic. The technique seem bound to produce errors as it relies on subjective matters such as the narrators piety and his reputation on memory.
Now salaat was practiced and thus it was probably followed by many people so after the prophet died there were thousands who prayed that way. It is not dependent on memory but practice and the prophet prayed hundreds of times in front of them and many people in fact probably thousands watched him pray and prayed behind him.
But a hadith
is a speech that was mentioned once, or an incident that occured once and heard or seen by a few. It needs to be memorized. And since most companions, in fact the vast majority, were not allowed to write down the hadith its hard for me to put faith in it. Let alone passed down 8 generations down to bukhari and muslim.
Now i understand the motive behind bukhari and nobody doubts his dedication. But the tools available to him were extremely limited. Gathering oral tradition 8 generation ago is a monumental task beyond the scope of reliability. Things like salaat was practiced and observed by many people and repeated over and over and over again and is easily learnt, but memorising a speech said once and then saying to another and then another and then another and yet another is different. It must be viewed with suspicion.

Remember when bukhari was compiling the hadith the muslims were already praying that way, there is nothing new that the bukhari hadith added.

[moshyman]

I have been following this topic of hadeeth and believe the scholars today have not given us a good reason as to why the hadith plays such a pivotal role in islam today.

Mostly they have not given us an understanding of how reliable is the hadith compilation and categorization techniques and why is it authentic. The technique seem bound to produce errors as it relies on subjective matters such as the narrators piety and his reputation on memory.
Now salaat was practiced and thus it was probably followed by many people so after the prophet died there were thousands who prayed that way. It is not dependent on memory but practice and the prophet prayed hundreds of times in front of them and many people in fact probably thousands watched him pray and prayed behind him.
But a hadith
is a speech that was mentioned once, or an incident that occured once and heard or seen by a few. It needs to be memorized. And since most companions, in fact the vast majority, were not allowed to write down the hadith its hard for me to put faith in it. Let alone passed down 8 generations down to bukhari and muslim.
Now i understand the motive behind bukhari and nobody doubts his dedication. But the tools available to him were extremely limited. Gathering oral tradition 8 generation ago is a monumental task beyond the scope of reliability. Things like salaat was practiced and observed by many people and repeated over and over and over again and is easily learnt, but memorising a speech said once and then saying to another and then another and then another and yet another is different. It must be viewed with suspicion.

Remember when bukhari was compiling the hadith the muslims were already praying that way, there is nothing new that the bukhari hadith added.

Hadith was recorded at the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) but most of these collections were destroyed. Abu Bakr As-Siddiq (may Allah be pleased with him) woke up once and called his daughter A'isha (may Allah be pleased with her) and aked her to bring the collection of hadith he had written down. He then burned it and said that he was afraid to record the words of the Prophet (peace be upon him) in case he had made even a slight mistake. But that didn't prevent him from orally conveying hadith and the sahaba were extremely careful to say that the words are 'to the effect' and not exact because of this fear. At the time of Imam Bukhari and other scholars it became necessary to write down hadith in order to preserve them and deliver them over the planet.

Allah's acceptance of certain books of Ahadith is shown through the manner in which he has allowed them to be taught over so many years to many learned people. If you do not accept hadith, what exactly do you know about Islam and the Prophet (peace be upon him)?

[Mira]

definitely the buster needs to bust these people.

Im sure she will, sure hope so!

Bubble-Buster once said, "I'm a he".

I guess the best thing to do is to ignore the website. It will receive more hits and thus will easily appear in search results for "Islam", "Muslim", "Qur'an" ..

199 Members only. Not very popular. Perhaps it's better not to bring more attention to this website.

[This is me]

Whats all this shouting and screaming for, defend the deen, from what. First of all to say that people who reject hadith are evil and kufar is ludicrous. I am not a convert but i am no pigeon either. Where is the kufr. Do you know what it means. Rejecting hadith has nothing to do with the prophet, it has to do with the way the hadeeth was compiled and authenticated. Many of you like me were brainwashed. We were told that these were the actual words of the prophet, yet when you investigate how the hadeeth was compiled and authenticated you will learn quickly that it was not scientific and perhaps not reliable. It was primitive and many ways bedouin.

Go read in your pigeon head how bukhari and muslim categorized the hadith 200 years and more after the prophets death. The miracle is in the koran and not in muslim and bukhari. The ummah you refer to came 230 years after the prophet was burried, they relied on oral speeches handed down 8 generation down. They relied on reputation of piety and memory, what the hell is that. Since when relying on reputation was scientific. Some defend the hadeeth that Allah gave the companions extra ordinary power of memory. But even then the companions long died before any of these hadith were compiled. When i say long gone i mean long gone.

Rather than shout and scream give evidence to support the validity and reliability of these hadith. Meanwhile stop using the word kufr, its beyond your scope, and liberate yourselves from the pigeon mentality.

actually the right statement would be that "you ain't learned eighter. Now how a hadith rejecter can be a kafir, here is the proof and you will find all the answers of your non-sensical assertions in these links with authentic facts:

Who is quoted & who is quoting? (http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/quoted.htm)<O:p</O:p
When were the Ahadeeth recorded? (http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/record.htm)<O:p</O:p
Khayr Al-Usool Fi Hadith Al-Rasool (http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/hadith.htm)<O:p</O:p
What you should know about Tabarî? (http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/tabari.htm)<O:p</O:p
The Myth of Hundreds of thousands of Ahadeeth! (http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/hadeeth-myth.htm)<O:p</O:p
Rejection of Ahadeeth is really rejection of Qur’aan (http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/rejection.htm)<O:p</O:p
Protection of Qur’aan includes protection of Ahadeeth (http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/protection.htm)<O:p></O:p>
Proof: Hadeeth حديث rejecters are outside the fold of Islaam! (http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/perception.htm) <O:p</O:p
Prophesies of Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم That Came to PASS! (http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/hp.htm)<O:p</O:p

one of the poster said that scholars have not done anything on this issue. in fact, scholars have done more than you can imagine, if you care to read. you just wanted to sound like you know it all and what you say is not there. read the above links and learn what scholars have said/written.

the submitters site you are talking about has been kicked around by many learned muslims and perhaps may be by bubble -buster as well. they are coward and they run like hell when they are confornted with facts. <O:p</O:p

[This is me]

ok here is the scoop

i am willing to debate any submitter/19er/quran alone here, in this forum one topic or subject at time, without any copy and paste non-sense.

[Sophiya]

Whats all this shouting and screaming for, defend the deen, from what. First of all to say that people who reject hadith are evil and kufar is ludicrous. I am not a convert but i am no pigeon either. Where is the kufr. Do you know what it means. Rejecting hadith has nothing to do with the prophet, it has to do with the way the hadeeth was compiled and authenticated. Many of you like me were brainwashed. We were told that these were the actual words of the prophet, yet when you investigate how the hadeeth was compiled and authenticated you will learn quickly that it was not scientific and perhaps not reliable. It was primitive and many ways bedouin.

Go read in your pigeon head how bukhari and muslim categorized the hadith 200 years and more after the prophets death. The miracle is in the koran and not in muslim and bukhari. The ummah you refer to came 230 years after the prophet was burried, they relied on oral speeches handed down 8 generation down. They relied on reputation of piety and memory, what the hell is that. Since when relying on reputation was scientific. Some defend the hadeeth that Allah gave the companions extra ordinary power of memory. But even then the companions long died before any of these hadith were compiled. When i say long gone i mean long gone.

Rather than shout and scream give evidence to support the validity and reliability of these hadith. Meanwhile stop using the word kufr, its beyond your scope, and liberate yourselves from the pigeon mentality.

bigmo, can i ask if you pray, or pray 5 times a day?

because Qur'an doesn't specifically refer to 5 times to pray- but does say to pray, but Allah did say to obey HIm and His Messenger (peace be upon Him) - so you are not in compliance with Qur'an until you are in compliance with sunnah- through hadith

[This is me]

Five Daily Salaat in the Glorious Qur’aan! (http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/5dailysalaat.htm)<O:p</O:p

[Sophiya]

i apologise tbut that doesn't prove that we praying 5 tmes a day is in the qur'an.

one example

{Asr Salaat} Surah Qaf 39
فَاصْبِرْ عَلَى مَا يَقُولُونَ وَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ قَبْلَ طُلُوعِ الشَّمْسِ وَقَبْلَ الْغُرُوبِ
So bear with patience (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) all that they say, and glorify the Praises of your Lord, before the rising of the sun and before (its) setting (i.e. the Fajr, Zuhr, and ‘Asr prayers)

it says pray between- pray- not how much. the whole point is the Qur'an tells us to pray. The sunnah tells us how to pray and how much to pray.

That verses and the others without the brackets don't =5. you could pray once or 100 times and still meet the requirements of that verse. but it is the sunnah that tells us how to praise Allah in salah and how many are compulsory

[This is me]

so you are one of those who solely denpends on the english translation of the quran to understand the deen you profess to follow? no wonder you have asome misguided ideas.

[This is me]

It must be self-explanatory to the readers that this author has an absolute and willful disregard to those who are subject of this treatise. We are talking about those morons who attack and questions Islaam and especially Glorious Qur’aan, using alleged “parenthesis” as pretext to discredit the Glorious Qur’aan. They quote the English translation[s] of Glorious Qur’aan, which by the way is the word of man based on his/her understanding and/or knowledge. It is not the truly revealed word of Allaah. These morons include enemies of Islaam, ignorant Muslims and pseudo-Muslims.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Thus, when an attack is initiated against the Glorious Qur’aan quoting the English translation of an Ayaah and/or Ayaat and using the {word[s] in} “parenthesis” as pretext to discredit the Qur’aan, Muslims should know that the attacker is plain stupid and an absolute ignorant; who does not have required knowledge of any language, translation rules and especially of Arabic language.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Arabic is not at all easy to translate, and the difficulty is increased hundred times when translator has to render into English, with any degree of accuracy and precision, a work so rich in meaning, so pithy in expression, so vigorous in style and so subtle in implications as the Glorious Qur’aan. The impediments confronting an honest translator may be summed up under six main parts and various sub headings, however, we will only discuss here the relevant parts about, why “parenthesis” are used in translations, especially Arabic into English.<o:p></o:p>

The very first things are the comparative poverty of the English language in several respects, for instance there is a large number of Arabic verbs untranslatable into English as verbs, such as: اَبطَلَ ـ اَسرَفَ ـ صَدَقَ ـ etc. Thus, one has perforce to render each of these words not by a single word but by a combination of words. Thus, يبخل has to be translated as “is niggardly” [(is) niggardly], يسرف as “is extravagant” and صَدَقَ as “is truthful.”<o:p></o:p>

There is no equivalent for the Arabic مضارع (aorist) in English. This would also explain the why the Bible does not make sense and is confusing, since the Greek language also has same aorist. I wonder how the translators of the Bible get around this without compromising the accuracy of the text. However, the Arabic مضارع is both present and future tenses combined, contrary to that in many other languages including English a tense is either present or future. Thus, thousands of Arabic verbs are to be rendered in English, only incompletely.<o:p></o:p>

In English grammar there are only two ‘numbers’ i.e. singular and plural, and there is no single word to convey the sense of the Arabic dual تثنيه in nouns as well as verbs, both in the 2<SUP>nd</SUP> and 3<SUP>rd</SUP> persons.<o:p></o:p>

There is an absolute comparative dearth of اسماعافاعل (nomina agentis) in English language, whereas they abound in Arabic. مفلحون ـ معجزون ـقانتون ـ مستقدمون ـ مستاخرون مشرقون ـ متقون ـ شاكرون ـ صادقون ـ آخرون and many similar words have to be rendered as adjective or participles, not as substantives.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

In Arabic, the feminine plural in the 2<SUP>nd</SUP> and 3<SUP>rd</SUP> person is always distinguishable from the masculine. Whereas in English both genders are covered by “you” and “they.”<o:p></o:p>

Another serious difficulty is caused by the case with which ellipses occur in the best and finest Arabic style, while both words and phrases have to be supplied by the reader to make the sense complete. At one time, it is only subject that is mentioned and the predicate is entirely suppressed; and at another time, the reverse is the case. The obvious duty of the translator at all such occasions is to supply the omission, although his attempts is many cases must be hazardous.<o:p></o:p>

Another perplexity is caused to the translator by the abrupt grammatical transition, in one and the same sentence that are frequent in Arabic language.<o:p></o:p>

1. Of person, as from the first and second person to the third, or vice versa;<o:p></o:p>

2. Of number, from plural to singular, or vice versa;<o:p></o:p>

Another obvious complication is caused by what is known as انتشار ضمار i.e., a personal or relative pronoun having different antecedents in one and the same sentence. The translator cannot afford to allow such ambiguities, thus, he/she has to make his or her choice.<o:p></o:p>

Also, there is no real equivalence in the import of many of the Arabic and English words generally held to be synonyms. The Arabic words Zina زنی for instance, has no equivalent in English, both adultery and fornication being of much narrower import. Similarly English has few words to express such closely related (متقارب المعنی) Arabic terms as: خوف خشيت ـ اشفاق ـ ترهيب ـ تقوی. Nor is English perhaps rich enough to indicate the shades of meanings of such sets of words as: قادرـ قديرـ مقتدـ رحمنـ رحيمـ ثعبانـ حيةـ and جان.<o:p></o:p>

Alfred Guillaume writes:<o:p></o:p>

‘Arabic is fitted to express relations with more conciseness than the Aryan language because of the extraordinary flexibility of the verb and noun. Thus, the ideas in breaks, shatter, try to break, cause to break, allow to be broken, break one another, ask someone to break, pretend to break, are among many variations of the fundamental verbal theme which can. Or could, be expressed by the vowel changes and consonantal augments without the aid of the supplementary verbs and pronouns which we have to employ in English. The noun, too, has an appropriate form for many diverse things, such as the time and place of an action, bodily defects, diseases, instruments, colors, trades, and so on.’<o:p></o:p>

What we have stated above is merely the tip of the iceberg or a drop in the ocean not to mention it does not shine any light on Islaamic Shariah rules of elucidation and interpretation (http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/rules.htm), which is a separate subject. However, it is sufficient enough for Muslims to spot a complete ignorant and a plain stupid person who uses the English translation of the meaning of the Glorious Qur’aan (an absolute words of man) to attack and question, the Qur’aan (the truly revealed word of Allaah) using “parenthesis” as his/her only argument. Nevertheless, the above information will help Muslims to sift the morons out, enabling them to save their time. Because no one can win with ignorance. Some of the attackers using “parenthesis” as pretext to show their non-existing scholarship and to discredit the Glorious Qur’aan; are Christian missionaries (mainly of website “answering-islam”), pseudo-Muslims especially pseudo-Muslim Akbarally Meherally of website “mostmerciful.com.”<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

[This is me]

i apologise tbut that doesn't prove that we praying 5 tmes a day is in the qur'an.

one example

it says pray between- pray- not how much. the whole point is the Qur'an tells us to pray. The sunnah tells us how to pray and how much to pray.

That verses and the others without the brackets don't =5. you could pray once or 100 times and still meet the requirements of that verse. but it is the sunnah that tells us how to praise Allah in salah and how many are compulsory
are you sure you have some knowledge of our deen? why you ignored this in the article, and how can you explain this? by the way sunnah or prophet muhammad :saw: taught us how to perform the salat, beside the number of paryers and method of performing wudu. but your assertion is fallacious that quran does not tell about the number of the prayers.

Let me briefly cite the places in the Glorious Qur’aan where five Salaat are mentioned.<O:p</O:p

Fajr Salaat is mentioned in Surah Ta-Ha, Dahr, Hud, Qaf, Rum and Nur.<O:p</O:p

Zuhr Salaat is mentioned in Surah Dahr, Qaf, Ta-Ha, Bani Israel or Isra and Rum.<O:p</O:p

Asr Salaat is mentioned in Surah Baqaraah, Dahr, Hud, Ta-Ha, Qaf and Rum.
<O:p</O:p
Maghrib Salaat is mentioned in Surah Hud, Ta-Ha, Rum, and Qaf.<O:p</O:p

Isha Salaat is mentioned in Surah Muzzammil, Tur, Dahr, Ta-Ha, Hud, Rum, Qaf, and Nur.<O:p</O:p

Beside the above all the Salaats have been implicitly mentioned in Surah Al-Baqaraah, Isra, Ta-ha.<O:p</O:p

The Arabic words/phrases used in the Glorious Qur’aan for the five Salaat are as follows:<O:p</O:p

1. Ghadu, Ghada, Bukrah, Fajr, Qabl Tulu’ al-Shmas and Heen Tusbehun have been used for Fajr Salaat.<O:p</O:p

2. Duluk al-Shams and Heen Tuzherun have been used for Zuhr Salaat.<O:p</O:p

3. Aseel, ashshi, and Qabi Gharoub al-Shams have been used for Asr Salaat.<O:p</O:p

4. Taraf al-Nahar, and Tumsun have been used for Maghrib Salaat.<O:p</O:p

5. Min anaine al-Lail, Ghasq-al-Lail, and Salaat al-Isha have been used for Isha Salaat.<O:p</O:p

[Sophiya]

i am also telling you brother to get the quotes for the verses, qur'an say pray fajr- but how do you know how to pray it or indeed how much of it to pray, because "praying from sunset to dawn" could mean continuous.

yes the names are mentioned- but what i am trying to say is that when asr is mentioned for example it doesn't say how many asr i.e. 2/3/100- simply to pray asr
same for the rest

and you would need sunnah and hadith for this .
Bro no need for argument, yo usimply find a verse with the number 5 in the qur'an to settle it

[This is me]

we already know that, sunnah has taught us that. and we both seems to agree on that.

[Free-Bird]

While i was surfing the net, as one does, all peacefully minding my own business and come accross this ...

... http://www.moslem.org/fhome.asp

... thought oh wow! another muslim forum, once i looked at the postings and within 2 mins!! had 5 cardiac attacks!!

Having recovered, i realised, that this is a devilish site!! under the pretext of Islam and Muslims.

These people, reject hadeeth completely and only follow the qur'an, yes they have many names a few of them are Ahle Qur'an, Qura'anis, Pervazis, Submitters. Wide spread scholarly consensus from east and west of the muslim world, from various sects who are usually divided, have come together and declare such beliefs and ideas as clear cut Kufr!!

I would love to spend time and refute these bone heads, and take their aqeedah atom by atom apart, but i dont have the time, and require your help to log on and post a few posts againts their kufr!

In defence of the deen of Islam, and the scared hadeeth of our beloved prophet Muhammed, on him be the most perfect peace and blessings of Allah, exalted is He.

Fight your cyber jihad againts Falsehood!

Destroy them, oh defenders of Islam!Oh please brother, think twice before we do such thing. No matter how bad they are yet they are Allah creation and believers. It is kharam for me to hurt another believer.
Btw what is the differences between Khadith and sunnah? I think most of us mixing these two. Refute them with wisdom and knowledge, not with fist.