STOP Caterpillar - Action April 16th 2005

[defending-islam]

STOP Caterpillar



Action April 16<SUP>th</SUP> 2005

National Motorcade and Rally

Show your opposition to house demolitions and casualties in the Palestinian Occupied Territories

Gather Hopwood Service Station M 42 at 11.0.am. Then Motorcade to Caterpillar Headquarters at Hockley Heath Solihull for a legal drive by.



Make your views known. Bring a letter of protest and a small symbolic object for Managing Director and Board of Caterpillar

Then convoy to Birmingham, Victoria Square at 2.30.pm and

Rally for Palestine

Friends of Al Aqsa is a voluntary organisation concerned with the defence of
Al Aqsa Haram Sharif and the protection of Palestinian Human Rights.
www.aqsa.org.uk (javascript:ol()
Contact:
P.O. Box 5127, Leicester. LE2 0WU. England.
Tel 077 11 823 524
Fax ++ 44 [116] 253 7575

[Raven]

A company makes tractors, and you oppose them?

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to take your concerns up with the people who drive them and/or their government?

[Barracuda]

A company makes tractors, and you oppose them?

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to take your concerns up with the people who drive them and/or their government?

Why you have problem unless you are a bigot, when Muslims are using democratic way to advocate their cause and voice their concerns? I think it is an excellent approach to influence the Public Policy. But, again in your eyes it isn't; since the initiaters and those who are concerned, are Muslims?

Can you see your obvious hypocrisy here?

[nevadajacks]

but cat doesn't make their equipment to knock down palestinian houses, they just make the best equpment in the world and someone is using their equipment.

[dour]

STOP Caterpillar







Action April 16<SUP>th</SUP> 2005

National Motorcade and Rally

Show your opposition to house demolitions and casualties in the Palestinian Occupied Territories

Gather Hopwood Service Station M 42 at 11.0.am. Then Motorcade to Caterpillar Headquarters at Hockley Heath Solihull for a legal drive by.



Make your views known. Bring a letter of protest and a small symbolic object for Managing Director and Board of Caterpillar

Then convoy to Birmingham, Victoria Square at 2.30.pm and



Rally for Palestine


Friends of Al Aqsa is a voluntary organisation concerned with the defence of
Al Aqsa Haram Sharif and the protection of Palestinian Human Rights.
www.aqsa.org.uk (http://javascript<b></b>:ol()
Contact:
P.O. Box 5127, Leicester. LE2 0WU. England.
Tel 077 11 823 524
Fax ++ 44 [116] 253 7575






you are targeting the wrong people

[Barracuda]

but cat doesn't make their equipment to knock down palestinian houses, they just make the best equpment in the world and someone is using their equipment.

Good than you proved our point, they are guiltier than the Bar who sell alcohol to drunk who end up killing a person or persons because of DUI or DWI. So why can't they be held guilty and accountable. When a bar owner can be an accessory to a vehicular manslaughter than "
Cat' is guilty of Palestinians genocide and ethnic cleansing, not to mention demolition of houses.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>


Their products should also be boycotted by all seventy Muslim countries and they should be prosecuted there as enemy combatant.

[Barracuda]

[size=1]

you are targeting the wrong people

It is up to Muslims to decide and not up to you. So take a hike!

[dhakiyya]

A company makes tractors, and you oppose them?

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to take your concerns up with the people who drive them and/or their government?

have you seen these purpouse build housecrushers? have you had one arrive one morning to crush your house?

it has happened to friends of mine

they are evil machines.

you might have a point if Israel were using tractors, but they are not, these machines are purpose for destroying houses, and caterpilar know EXACTLY what their Israeli customers are using them for, after all, you wouldn't ask a company to supply you with machines that can crush houses if you were using them to plough your fields.

[dhakiyya]

So, Dour et al, who are you targetting to stop the home demolitions, everyone I know who is seriously opposed to home demolitions, which includes Israeli pro Palestinian organisations and activists, are supporting the boycott against caterpilar, because they know exactly what they are building the machines for and are making a huge amount of money out of it.

If you think there's nothing wrong with a company making money out of this, that it's just the fault of the people paying them, well......... tell it to Allah on judgement day. The worst human rights abuses happen when people pass on responsibility to others... "we were only obeying orders" "we just supplied the equipment" "someone else would do it if we didn't" "we're not the ones that are actually destroying the homes."

no doubt the IDF kids that drive the bulldozers say "we were only obeying orders"

If you knew people who were made homeless in this way, knew them as human beings, knew their families, you would not be able to look at caterpilar or their products without wanting to be sick.

May ALLAH reward all those who do whatever they can to oppose oppression including the destruction of families' homes.

[nevadajacks]

it is the same thing as people who will protest boeing because of what their planes do to buildings when someone runs them into one, kinda silly. Cat makes construction equipment and they make equipment to knock things down, that is part of construction, our company owns about 25 peices of cat equipment and they are the best at it. If someone uses something the wrong way it is not cats fault just like it is not boeings fault that so called mujahideen used them to knock down buildings

[nevadajacks]

Why you have problem unless you are a bigot, when Muslims are using democratic way to advocate their cause and voice their concerns? I think it is an excellent approach to influence the Public Policy. But, again in your eyes it isn't; since the initiaters and those who are concerned, are Muslims?

Can you see your obvious hypocrisy here?

what public policy does cat make? They make construction equipment. I do not see any hypocricy here at all from raven.

dhakiyya, Cat doesn't build equipment designed to knock down palestinian houses. I think that i have seen somewhere that the use D-8, D-9, D-10 dozers to knock down the houses. That equipment is used primarily to push dirt and push the push-pull scrapers that are loading dirt. They did not design that equipment for demolition purposes. They are very big and powerful, but they will not stop building them because someone wants to use it for some other purpose.

99.99999% of those dozers are not used to knock down palestinian's houses just like 99.99999% of boeing's aircraft are not used to blow up buildings.

[dour]

The proper target would be the government of Israel.

I can buy a gun. No big deal. If I buy that gun to kill a bunch of school children, is the company I buy from at fault?

I can buy a car. No big deal. If I decide to drive that car into a school cafeteria at lunch, is the car company I buy from at fault?

[dour]

It is up to Muslims to decide and not up to you. So take a hike!

And other people can point out that you are targeting the wrong people.

[nevadajacks]

maybe he was just encouraging you to get out in nature, I am planning on going hiking on thursday after work with my kids.

[dhakiyya]

The proper target would be the government of Israel.

believe me we protest against them as well!

I can buy a gun. No big deal. If I buy that gun to kill a bunch of school children, is the company I buy from at fault?

they are if they know what you are going to use it for and still sell it to you, and they are if they know you already shot a load of school children and they sell you some more guns.

[Raven]

have you seen these purpouse build housecrushers? have you had one arrive one morning to crush your house?

it has happened to friends of mine

they are evil machines.

you might have a point if Israel were using tractors, but they are not, these machines are purpose for destroying houses, and caterpilar know EXACTLY what their Israeli customers are using them for, after all, you wouldn't ask a company to supply you with machines that can crush houses if you were using them to plough your fields.

I must admit, I've never seen a "housecrusher." Is that different from a normal bulldozer?

Ps. Are Muslims incapable of receiving constructive criticism from non-Muslims? I suggested that the target is not the right one and suggested something that might achieve better results. For that, I get called a bigot. :rolleyes:

Pps. I'm also opposed to the house demolitions (in general). That's okay, though. It's easier to assume that I support them.

[dhakiyya]

I didn't call anyone a bigot, and I'm already taking up my concerns with governments, and boycotting various other companies. Protest can and should take many forms.

Sorry if I get het up about this, but my friends 3 year old son cries at night saying he wants to go home... but he can't go home because the Israelis bulldozed his home. I'm glad you are opposed to home demolitions, and any way you choose to speak out against them would be greatly appreciated, whatever you think about caterpilar.

[nevadajacks]

I must admit, I've never seen a "housecrusher." Is that different from a normal bulldozer?

Ps. Are Muslims incapable of receiving constructive criticism from non-Muslims? I suggested that the target is not the right one and suggested something that might achieve better results. For that, I get called a bigot. :rolleyes:

Pps. I'm also opposed to the house demolitions (in general). That's okay, though. It's easier to assume that I support them.

no, they are the same as a dozer except they are on the big size, i would never stand anywhere near one and never ever get in front of one because the guy driving has a good chance of never seeing you. Dakiyya, i understand that your friends have had a house crushed by one, but they are not evil machines. They a a peice of construction equipment like everything else

[dhakiyya]

Okay, I agree, the bulldozers are machines that in themselves are not capable of being either "good" or "evil", however, the people who drive them over other peoples houses (in some cases whilst people are still in them) are evil, as are the people who sell them to those they know will use them to crush peoples houses. As for standing in front of them, I agree this is a very bad idea, I know what happened to Rachel Corrie (she was crushed to death attempting to defend a Palestinian family's home from being crushed)

they are very very scary pieces of machinery, and many thousands of Palestinians have had their homes crushed by them. Have you seen the mangled wreck of broken concrete and twisted metal that is a crushed house? Have you found kids clothes and books among the twisted wreck? I have. It's not pleasant, and many places in Palestine (and in Arab communities inside Israel too) have these twisted wrecks around the place.

[nevadajacks]

there also is really no way to stop someone from acquiring these machines also. There are dealerships and equipment brokers all over the world and a million ways to purchase this equipment. There is a huge black market for this equipment also, where equipment is stolen out of the USA and then sold to foreign countries. Cat equipment is so easy to steal, All you need is one key. Every piece of cat uses the same one

[dhakiyya]

well if Israel was stealing them, we wouldn't be hassling CAT about them, and you are quite right, if CAT didn't sell it to them someone else would, however if CAT stop selling it, we boycott/protest the new company they buy it from, ad infinitum until they cannot get the equipment, if they then steal it we tell the whole world that they have resorted to stealing equipment to carry out their henious crimes.

Consumer boycotts tend to work this way, where there are several companies doing the same nasty thing (usually stuff to do with human rights or the environment), you target the biggest until they stop, then go for the next biggest, and so on until it is standard for those types of companies not to do these things at all any more.

Incidentally, going on a thread about direct action against CAT and telling people how to steal CAT equipment is somewhat less than prudent. Some of the less scrupulous protestors might use that information for less than honorable purposes. (Muslims should not steal as Allah has forbidden it, but not all the protestors are Muslims, and whilst most of the non Muslims there would probably not be the type to steal, there may well be a few that do (not to mention Muslims who ignore Allah's commands))

[nevadajacks]

well if Israel was stealing them, we wouldn't be hassling CAT about them, and you are quite right, if CAT didn't sell it to them someone else would, however if CAT stop selling it, we boycott/protest the new company they buy it from, ad infinitum until they cannot get the equipment, if they then steal it we tell the whole world that they have resorted to stealing equipment to carry out their henious crimes.

Consumer boycotts tend to work this way, where there are several companies doing the same nasty thing (usually stuff to do with human rights or the environment), you target the biggest until they stop, then go for the next biggest, and so on until it is standard for those types of companies not to do these things at all any more.

Incidentally, going on a thread about direct action against CAT and telling people how to steal CAT equipment is somewhat less than prudent. Some of the less scrupulous protestors might use that information for less than honorable purposes. (Muslims should not steal as Allah has forbidden it, but not all the protestors are Muslims, and whilst most of the non Muslims there would probably not be the type to steal, there may well be a few that do (not to mention Muslims who ignore Allah's commands))

This is a little different than a consumer boycott, i don't have any cat clothing and i am quite sure that is not their bread and butter. I can also tell you no one is going to stop buying cat equipment because that would be business suicide. There is no one that comes close to them.

[dhakiyya]

most industries in the UK don't use CAT, if they are so wonderful, how come so many people are not using them? Perhaps that's just what CAT wants people in the US to believe. In any case I will continue to do what I can to fight for human rights.

[nevadajacks]

most industries in the UK don't use CAT, if they are so wonderful, how come so many people are not using them? Perhaps that's just what CAT wants people in the US to believe. In any case I will continue to do what I can to fight for human rights.

they probably do not have that much land. It is not what cat wants us to believe, it is a fact. We have a couple of other pieces of equipment (John Deere and Komatsu) and nothing performs better overall. One of the biggest keys is their distribution system and parts availablility. Downtime in construction is a very big factor and you can get a cat part within 24 hrs anywhere and you walk in it can be identified immediatly. You go order a john deere part and half the time it is the wrong part or they do not make it anymore.

[Mustafa83]

so should I sue mcdonalds for making me fat ?


or should sue starbucks cause i spilled hot coffee and burned myself?



no offense but i think this idea is a joke you have to go after the people who is using the weapon the weapon itself does not have a mind of its own ITS A MACHINE for crying out loud.!

[dhakiyya]

so should I sue mcdonalds for making me fat ?

No.


or should sue starbucks cause i spilled hot coffee and burned myself?

No



no offense but i think this idea is a joke you have to go after the people who is using the weapon the weapon itself does not have a mind of its own ITS A MACHINE for crying out loud.!

The objection is directed at the company that makes the machine, because they are selling them to the Israeli army knowing exactly what they are being used for. If you sold a gun to someone knowing that they would use it to kill innocent people, then you are in part responsible.

Now if you wish to join us in campaigning against the Israeli authorities for destroying Palestinian homes, you are more than welcome.

[Raven]

Ok, I'll join in on the boycott.

I will never purchase a Caterpillar bulldozer.

[dour]

Thats ok, I will make it up. I will buy four. That will show all of you.

[nevadajacks]

Thats ok, I will make it up. I will buy four. That will show all of you.

i got you by a bunch, i think we have approx. 20 or so.

[Stillcurious]

Ok, I'll join in on the boycott.

I will never purchase a Caterpillar bulldozer.

Beware of these hungry little creatures also: http://www.swlauriersb.qc.ca/english/edservices/pedresources/webquest/caterpillar/caterpillar.htm

[dhakiyya]

Ok, I'll join in on the boycott.

I will never purchase a Caterpillar bulldozer.

or their shoes or clothing?

[nevadajacks]

or their shoes or clothing?

ok ok, i won't buy any of their clothing or shoes, don't really want to look like a redneck anyways. But we are looking for another 300L Excavator.

[Raven]

Actually, I might have to buy their boots. Given my foot situation (high arch on one foot), they're the best option that I've come across. I also need boots to ride the motorcycle.

Still, I won't be purchasing any bulldozers from them. You can take comfort in that.