three steps behind and subservient ......... should that be practiced ?

[~Stanley~]

I would like to ask a question regarding a pre-conceived notion I am left with regarding Arab / Muslim traditions and lifestyles.

The role of a woman in society as well as in marriage.
Most western pictures and stories regarding Muslim lifestyles shown are of women
"three steps behind and subservient" .
Other cultures also have this mode of family life but, it seems most prevalent in Arab society.

Can anyone speak to this issue and tell me if my perceptions are wrong ?

[Qassami]

"three steps behind and subservient"

You know, I always hear this coming from people and it really puzzles me that how Muslim women must walk three steps behind their men.. But until this day I have never seen any evidence that support such idea!

Yes, if I walk in the street I might see a woman walking behind a man…but that doesn’t mean she was made to do this.. Maybe she walks slow and the man likes to walk in a pace - most of the times I do that, since I hate walking slow. :D

But with the same token, I can some times see plenty of English girls walking behind their men. Especially on Friday nights. Or when a group of friends are walking, say shopping, I always see the men few step ahead, but the girls are behind talking while walking as if they have all the time in their hands.

Does that mean they were made to walk steps behind?

Alright, I give you something to do tomorrow.. to see where I coming from…when you walk on the streets, try and observe how many women wlak “three steps” behind their men and tell me if there were any western woman among them.

Sorry to drift away from the original subject, but this was something that always bothered me.

[~Stanley~]

"three steps behind and subservient"

Sorry to drift away from the original subject, but this was something that always bothered me.

As it is for me too ! That is why I posed the question. ;)

[ThE aPpReNtIcE]

Nope..that is not islamic

[Ayah]

That's true about women tending to walk a bit slower, atleast for me anyway, lol. When I walk w/my dad, he usually walks fast, so I either end up lingering behind, or I grab his elbow and half run with him as he walks normally :p It has nothing to do with Islam, just us women, that's all. And Allah knows best.

Also, when it comes to shopping for instance, most guys like to take a quick look and continue on. However, most women like to look, look, and look and often end up falling behind.

And I'm not being stereotypical.. The above statement is merely based on observation, that's all ;)


~Ayah

[ponderingstar]

i always walk really fast and hence am ahead of my husband, his friends, my brothers, the whole lot. especially if we're running late. then it's more like thirty steps... :dogrun:

[ThE aPpReNtIcE]

Yeah..i tend to walk behind my mom when we go shopping :p

[~Stanley~]

Thank you one and All for dispelling that flawed notion of mine.

[peace2u]

Get this one, I usually walk behind my sisters (sometimes more than 3 steps). i don't think I can even keep up with my mom :rolleyes: the only time I can keep up with anyone is if I'm late for something.


Peace

[~Stanley~]

I think many of you may have gotten the skewed impression I was simply asking about:
A man, and all female ducks in a row behind him.

When I asked "three steps behind and subservient " I was really making the statement regarding the entire role of women in a society and if it is expected that they are subservient to the male head of the household.

In the daily lives of most Muslims, are the tenets spoken of in the Quran regarding a woman's role followed or is there wiggle room depending on where one lives?

[Siddiqa]

I think many of you may have gotten the skewed impression I was simply asking about:
A man, and all female ducks in a row behind him.


Hey Stan! :D

Oh no no no... not skewed... ermm... you just not been very clear, that's all. Like you know... open and upfront and all. :D

I did comtemplate the idea of writing about how when I go out with my brother, he tells me about how americans love to think muslim women are oppressed, therefore they come up with those stereotypes about em. He would ask me to along side him or in front, but I am like... "I enjoy walking at a leisurely pace." Anyways... I'll spare you guys the details. :D

Conclusion we reached was.... no matter what muslims do, the kuffar will always stereotype us. Especially Americans... as that is what many of the kuffar thrive on. So, hey! Hell... like we care! :D

Btws... all the above was for the skewed impression you gave me. ;)


When I asked "three steps behind and subservient " I was really making the statement regarding the entire role of women in a society and if it is expected that they are subservient to the male head of the household.

In the daily lives of most Muslims, are the tenets spoken of in the Quran regarding a woman's role followed or is there wiggle room depending on where one lives?

As regards the status of women in Islam or like you called it... "three steps behind concept" :D....

There is a clear distinction in islam, in the roles of a man and a woman. The man is the leader of the household and he is given responsibilities as such that befit a leader. On the other hand, a woman is required to be "obedient" to him. And before you jump to have an AHA! moment :D... let me also clarify, a woman is considered a "subordinate", so to speak.... not a slave.

Call it subserviency or subordination... could care less. Point is, for the smooth functionality of the household, the roles have been specified. Course you do have situations where the woman calls the shots more the man... lots of such households and it works for them. But know that women are involved in the decision making process, they have the much desired freedom they crave... and they have a status in Islam that NO OTHER religion has ever given them or will give them.

Have you read the book, "Seven habits of highly effective families"!? Author being Steven Covey. If not, I'd recommend it. And you will notice in that book as well, how the author's wife (they wrote the book together) encourages the form of subserviency you refer to... she realises... it makes for a happy, loving and productive family.

Anyways... just gave you the gist. :\

[Chained_Water]

Stan if you are asking whether a woman should obey her husband. The answer is yes.

[ponderingstar]

I think many of you may have gotten the skewed impression I was simply asking about:
A man, and all female ducks in a row behind him.

When I asked "three steps behind and subservient " I was really making the statement regarding the entire role of women in a society and if it is expected that they are subservient to the male head of the household.

In the daily lives of most Muslims, are the tenets spoken of in the Quran regarding a woman's role followed or is there wiggle room depending on where one lives?

Stan, a mn and his wife's relationship is between the two fo them. however since Islam is a way of life it teaches us how to conduct ourselves. now i don't mean to be rude, but i honestly believe that in MANY decent men there is almost like a need to put their women on a pedestal and make them happy. it pleases a decent man when hiswife is happy. however in "free" society i think this can many times be space for a woman unknowingly to take advantage of a man. how many women in the west are actually "under the thumb" compared to how many men? i think Islam teaches us thaty men make many sacrifices for their wives. not only dothey provide for us financially but in return the woman has to do very little other than have children. (and i think this is her right even if the man in the amrriage wishes not to.) so in return for a woman being cared for, with shelter food and clothing all provided for her (i think it is even suggested somewhere that when a man buys himself clothes he should also buy his wife clothes) in return a womans money is her own. She does not have any compulsion to share it with her husband. so in these rather beneficial circumstances, the relationship can not be considered equal. As for a woman obeying her husband, if the husband is being unreasonable or unislamic then the woman has her rights in tact. Also she has right sof divorce etc. It is not an abusive relationship. It is the issue of rights.

[Rizi_Wizi]

When I asked "three steps behind and subservient " I was really making the statement regarding the entire role of women in a society and if it is expected that they are subservient to the male head of the household.



Stanley,

I am puzzled to know where you get these strange ideas from? There is no mention of subservience in the Quran or the hadeeth's; neither does it state that men are more 'superior' to women.

The Quranic stance is that muslim women are first and foremost muslims, the religious equals of men. They have the same religious obligation as men. However Allah (swt) created men and women differently in terms of their physical appearance, characteristics and emotional being. So that each can take their specific roles within the Ummah.

The Quran further mentions that men and women are mutually supportive of each other, men and women are each others protectors (S9: V71) and it describes spouses as garments for one another (S2:V187).

So you see Allah (swt) created men and women to compliment each other and at the same time preserved their different nature.

I would certainly not call this subservience.

[Ebony]

i tend to forget i have someone with me and occasionally stop or change direction whilst he/she carries on walking :rotfl:

[Mary Carol]

Stan, a man and his wife's relationship is between the two of them.

What more needs to be said?

A couple needs to work out their relationship based on their own strengths and weaknesses.

It would be disasterous to build a marriage on anything else.

One can only wonder sometimes how a couple live together, let alone stay together.

But their specific negotiations as to who does what, who leads, who follows, is but a dance that man and woman have choreographed since it was first performed in the Garden of Eden.

The key is respect.

The rest is up to you.

[~Stanley~]

What more needs to be said?

A marriage/relationship is akin to building a boat,
first comes the skills and craftsmanship of the builders
then a time come when the builders test out their new boat on the water, and see if it floats
Once the boat floats properly, it can only move forward if two or more people row from both sides
If only one out of two is rowing, the marriage simply goes round in circles.

[jamila]

Men are the ones designated imam of the family - because he is responsible for them. On the other hand, they must consult their spouses before making decisions. Women obey their husbands in order to please them, and men please their women by being considerate, treating us as intelligent partners and - I admit it - bribing us with sweet unexpected gifts from time to time. Pleasing each other results in domestic harmony. And real, underlying respect, taking each other's needs seriously, builds the strong foundations a marriage needs.

Ukhti Pondering - good posts :)

[hen]

Interstingly, this is Biblical Christianity as well. Men are the head of the household. Men are to sacraficially love and protect their women, and women are to respect their husbands......seeking that which brings harmony to the relationship.


It is amazing how similar Christian teaching and Islamic teaching are sometimes.



Men are the ones designated imam of the family - because he is responsible for them. On the other hand, they must consult their spouses before making decisions. Women obey their husbands in order to please them, and men please their women by being considerate, treating us as intelligent partners and - I admit it - bribing us with sweet unexpected gifts from time to time. Pleasing each other results in domestic harmony. And real, underlying respect, taking each other's needs seriously, builds the strong foundations a marriage needs.

Ukhti Pondering - good posts :)