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seven
22-02-05, 01:11 PM
Q: Is it a distortion to say that wife beating is allowed in Islam? (http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/qa00005120.aspx)



A: In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Praise be to Allah. May the peace and blessings of Allah shower upon our Beloved Messenger, his family, companions, and those who follow them.

It is absolutely a distortion of Islam to say that wife beating is endorsed in Islam.

Not only is wife beating not endorsed, it is strictly prohibited. Beating someone, whether a husband, wife, or child is unlawful. Beating someone is a form of abuse and Islam does not allow abuse.

I shudder to think how many Muslim women have ended up in the hospital, battered and bruised, or have died because their husbands believe that Islam gives them the right to physically assault their wives.

The issue of disciplining the wife comes from verse 34 of Surat al-Nisa. Yusuf Ali translates this verse as follows,"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because God has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means."

Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what God would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For God is Most High, great (above you all). Pickthall's translation is, " Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women).

So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High."

As you can see, one translator chose the word "beat," while the other chose the word "scourge." The Arabic word is "wadribouhounna," from the root word "darb."

Linguistically, "darb" has many meanings, some of which include to hit or strike lightly. The English translations may be misleading in some cases and that is why it is important to go to the Arabic sources and see how the scholars have interpreted this verse.

I have found that the majority of scholars have interpreted this as permission for men to discipline their wives who have become "nashiz," which means rebellious, recalcitrant, or lewd. This permission is not a general permission to discipline the wife whenever the husband feels like it, but rather is meant for women who act out in very specific circumstances and threaten the harmony of the marriage.

Furthermore, it is a permission granted by Allah to men. It is not a right or privilege. Scholars have also placed limits on what form this discipline takes. The husband is only allowed to use his hand or the equivalent of a miswak, a tooth-stick.

Furthermore, he may not strike in anger, beat, bruise, or harm his wife. Rather, he gives her a symbolical tap with this very light object. He may not strike her face or any other delicate part of the body. And once again, this is permission, meaning he does not have to do this, but is merely allowed if circumstances warrant.

Before he disciplines his wife, he is required to take other measures. Note how the Qur'an commands men to first talk to their wives and persuade them with kind, wise words. Then if that fails, he is allowed to forsake marital intimacy, that is, sexual intercourse, as a way to make the wife understand the seriousness of her actions.

Finally, he is allowed to physically discipline her, but only within the above-mentioned limits. Scholars also say that if he knows that physical discipline will not achieve anything, he should not pursue it. And scholars also caution men to look at the example of the Prophet, peace be upon him. It is a well known fact that the Best of all Creation, upon whom be peace, never hit his wives.

This permission for a man to discipline his wife is something which men should not take lightly. If this discipline results in any physical or emotional harm to the wife, it is unlawful for the husband to continue. Both husband and wife should be able to sit down and discuss the problem as adults. The fact that problems between husband and wife escalate into physical confrontations is something we as a community need to address.

The Islamic paradigm for marriage is one of love, mercy, and mutual respect, not violence, fighting, and hatred.

Please see this additional link on SunniPath for scholarly discussions of this issue, along with the relevant hadiths and legal opinions:

Wife Beating (http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/QA00000611.aspx)

And Allah knows best.

Umm Salah (Zaynab Ansari)

faqir
26-02-05, 02:45 PM
:salams

Nice post

MG
26-02-05, 04:18 PM
but then wife beaters could argue about their VERSION of beating their wife LIGHTLY

Ebony
26-02-05, 06:55 PM
but then wife beaters could argue about their VERSION of beating their wife LIGHTLY

if it leaves bruises i dont think tht would count as "light" beating

Guardian Hijab
27-02-05, 03:33 AM
Asalamualaikum

Thanks for the post seven, i kno some ppl who are curious so inshAllah i'll pass on the word:)

And ditto Ebony, i learnt that it cant cause a bruise, and that he should use a small stick, the width of his thumb, but when u think about it, its more of a show, to show how displeased he is with you, diss eh?

Wa'alaikumasalam

MG
27-02-05, 11:03 AM
[QUOTE=Guardian Hijab]Asalamualaikum

Thanks for the post seven, i kno some ppl who are curious so inshAllah i'll pass on the word:)

And ditto Ebony, i learnt that it cant cause a bruise, and that he should use a small stick, the width of his thumb, but when u think about it, its more of a show, to show how displeased he is with you, diss eh?



yeah,i read that too,he is not allowed to leave bruises on you but a man can hit u HARD without leaving bruises too right?

there is some one who u jus have to grab by the arm and they get a bruise!!

im like that, if my sis grabs me by the arm ABIT tight or slightly roughly,i get blue/black bruises the next day where she held me!!!!

marjan
28-02-05, 12:20 AM
If any man tried to hit me with a stick, I'd laugh at him.

Reema
28-02-05, 12:34 AM
yes exactly like me!! one little touch makes my arms or legs go purple and blue in awe:eek2: :rolleyes: :crying: :eek:

:evilb::evilb: :evilb: :evilb: :hidban: :hidban: :banbear: :banbear: :hidban: :banan: :banan:

{the whole happy family, awwwwww and they are dancing aswell:D}


[QUOTE=Guardian Hijab]Asalamualaikum

Thanks for the post seven, i kno some ppl who are curious so inshAllah i'll pass on the word:)

And ditto Ebony, i learnt that it cant cause a bruise, and that he should use a small stick, the width of his thumb, but when u think about it, its more of a show, to show how displeased he is with you, diss eh?



yeah,i read that too,he is not allowed to leave bruises on you but a man can hit u HARD without leaving bruises too right?

there is some one who u jus have to grab by the arm and they get a bruise!!

im like that, if my sis grabs me by the arm ABIT tight or slightly roughly,i get blue/black bruises the next day where she held me!!!!

marjan
28-02-05, 12:38 AM
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faqir
28-02-05, 12:41 AM
Wife Beating




1. Does the Arabic word 'daraba' necessarily mean "violent or intense or repeated striking?"




No.

Jurists routinely use the expression "daraba al-ma' `ala wajhihi" - lit. strike water upon the face, for someone accomplishing the first rukn of wudu' (washing the face).



Also in Arabic daraba al-ard "to strike the earth" - as in verse 4:94 {When you strike the earth in the cause of Allah} - means to travel, i.e. walking with a staff.





2. Has the phrase 'wadribuhunna' in 4:34 normally been interpreted as a command or has it been interpreted as more of a recommendation?




Not even a recommendation. Al-Razi said in his Tafsir on 4:34 (1308/1891 edition 3:222): "Al-Shaf`i said: 'wa al-darbu mubah, wa al-tarku afdal - and hitting is permitted, but not hitting is preferable.'"

NB: Al-Shafi`i's position is therefore that it is "permissible", NOT "just barely permissible" as misrepresented by Muhammad Asad. [_The Message of the Qur'an_, translation and commentary of the Qur'an by Muhammad Asad (1980), footnote 45, p. 109 (one of the commentaries on verse 4:34).]

The basic rule (asl) is strict prohibition, followed by dispensation (rukhsa) as explicited by the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] in the hadith below, which al-Shafi`i took for his evidence in his ruling:

The Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] said: "Do not hit the maidservants of Allah!" (la tadribu ima' Allah). Then `Umar (RA) came to the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] (http://www.abc.se/%7Em9783/fiqhi/durood.gif)and said [NB: by way of exaggeration, cf. `Awn al-Ma`bud]: "The women are rebelling (dha'irna) against their husbands!" So the Prophet[salallahu alayhi wasalam] GAVE A DISPENSATION (rakhkhasa) to beat them. Whereupon women started pouring in to see the family of the Messenger of Allah and complain about their husbands. Seeing this, the Prophet[salallahu alayhi wasalam] said: "Many women have poured in to see the family of Muhammad, complaining of their husbands, and *the latter are certainly not the best of you*." Narrated from Iyas ibn `Abd Allah ibn Abi Dhubab by al-Shafi`i in his Musnad, Abu Dawud, al-Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, al-Tabarani in al-Kabir, and al-Hakim. Al-Nawawi and al-Suyuti graded it a sound (sahih) narration in Riyad al-Salihin [RS-281] and al-Jami` al-Saghir respectively.

In a version cited by al-Razi in his Tafsir, (3:222) `Umar also states: "We the Quraysh used to have our men holding sway over our women. Then we came to Madina and found that their women held sway over their men. Then our women mixed with their women until they rebelled (dha'irna) against their husbands. So I came to the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] and told him: 'The women are rebelling against their husbands!' So he [salallahu alayhi wasalam] GAVE PERMISSION (adhina) to beat them. Whereupon, etc."

Some people who were influenced by feminism until they forgot the Adab of Islam, tend to badmouth Sayyidina `Umar for what they term his mistreatment of women. While it is true that the Arabs in general and Sayyidina `Umar in particular had a very high sense of self-respect (ghira) as attested by no less than the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] (in the hadith where he mentions seeing `Umar's palace in Paradise), nevertheless we should observe Adab so as not to commit a sin whenever mentioning the Prophet[salallahu alayhi wasalam] , his Family, and His Companions, indeed all Muslims as Allah (SWT) made the honor of a Muslim as sacrosanct as his life and property.

The Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] also expressed astonishment at the cruelty of certain men when he said: "Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" (Bukhari and Muslim).

The crafty little anti-Islam page on domini.org states:
"The Qur'an states:

"Righteous women are therefore obedient, And those you fear may be rebellious (nushuz) admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them."

"Some translators add the word lightly after 'beat them' in Q 4:34. Others like Mohammed Pickthall and Rodwell translate the word 'edrebouhon - beat them' as 'scourge them'. [...] But "a beating without causing injury" (agreed upon) "So the man has the right to beat his rebellious wife as long as that beating is not like the whipping of the slave and will not result in injury."

Of course the above is false and tendentious but couched in the syrupy style typical of missionaries.

The hadith in Muslim states that the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] in his Farewell Pilgrimage said: "Lo! My last recommendation to you is that you should TREAT WOMEN WELL. Truly they are your helpmates, and you have no right over them beyond that - EXCEPT IF THEY COMMIT A MANIFEST INDECENCY (fahisha mubina = adultery). If they do, then refuse to share their beds and beat them WITHOUT INDECENT VIOLENCE (fadribuhunna darban ghayra mubarrih*). Then, if they obey you, do not show them hostility any longer. Lo! you have a right over your women and they have a right over you. Your right over your women is that they not allow whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house. While their right over them is that you treat them excellently in their garb and provision."

*** Then he [salallahu alayhi wasalam] took the covenant from them and from us that they and we all heard and understood this from him, respectively, directly and indirectly, with his forefinger raised, and said: "O Allah! bear witness." ***

After this, whatever Muslim man derogates to the recommendation of the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] has violated his covenant with the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] and shall be called to account for it; and whoever of the non-Muslim men or women claims - even the Archbishop of Canterbury and his wife - that beating women is allowed in Islam, has belied the Divine witness invoked by the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] and shall be called to account for it in the Divine Court.

*"Mubarrih" is defined in al-Mawrid as "violent, intense, severe, acute, sharp, excruciating, tormenting, agonizing." Qatada said as narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (5:68): "Ghayr mubarrih means ghayr sha'in = not disgraceful/ outrageous/ obscene/ indecent ." Muhammad Asad translates it over-figuratively as "not causing pain."



3. What is the evidence for saying that this 'striking' is in fact only supposed to be carried out with something small, like a miswak?




`Ata' said: "I asked Ibn `Abbas: 'What is the hitting that is ghayr al-mubarrih?' He replied: '[With] the siwak and the like'." Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (Dar al-Fikr reprint 5:68).



Al-Razi (3:222) mentions that as a rule (a) it must be a light beating and (b) the face must be avoided. He added that certain of the Shafi`i jurists said "a coiled scarf (mindil malfuf) (NB: NOT "a folded handkerchief" as mistranslated by Asad) or his hand may be used but not a whip nor a stick."





4. Where is the hadith found in which the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] said to a servant-girl who had been extremely late "If I were not afraid of Allah, I would hit you with this" referring to a miswak?




Ibn Sa`d in al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, Al-Tabarani in al-Mu`jam al-Kabir, Abu Ya`la in his Musnad, Abu Nu`aym in Hilyat al-Awliya' and al-Hakim in al-Mustadrak narrated from Umm Salama: "The Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] was in my house and there was a siwak in his hand. He called for Wasifa [the servant-girl] to come to him or to her but she tarried until anger was visible on his face. So Umm Salama went out to her and found her playing with an animal. She said to her: "You are playing while the Messenger of Allah is calling you?" She replied: "No, by the one who sent you with truth! I did not hear you." Whereupon the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] said: "Were it not for fear of exaction (qawad) on the Day of Resurrection, I should surely make you sore (la'awja`tuki) with this toothpick."



Al-Munawi in Fayd al-Qadir mentioned that al-Mundhiri and al-Haythami declared its chain of transmission good. Al-Suyuti graded the hadith "fair" (hasan) in al-Jami` al-Saghir. Al-Muttaqi cited it in Kanz al-`Ummal (#39820, 39821, 39829).



[b][i]5. What is the exact meaning of 'nushuz'? It is translated as disobedience, but there seem to be others who think it means something more like 'ill-will' or 'hostility' or 'ill-treatment'.




It depends on context and how these terms are themselves understood by those who use them. Ill-treatment on the part of a wife to her husband, for example, is a bit different from ill-treatment on the part of a grocer to his customer.

Nushuz is translated "Recalcitrance, disobedience, violation of marital duties on the part of the wife" in al-Mawrid Ar-Eng Dictionary.

Nushuz in the verse, as shown, is an euphemism for adultery because her primary marital duty is spelled out in the hadith as "not allowing whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house." Al-Maziri also said that another interpretation of the words in that hadith said it referred to a woman sitting in seclusion with a stranger inside her husband's house. (Al-Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim.)

6. Is it not true that slapping someone on the face is not allowed in Islam? Is there a consensus on this point?




It is a transgression requiring exaction (qawad) which can be changed into monetary compensation (diyya) in the Four Schools, and Allah knows best.

Examples: (a) the famous hadith from Mu`awiya ibn al-Hakam in Sahih Muslim of the black woman slave whom her owner slaps and is then obligated to manumit as her compensation.

(b) Also in Sahih Muslim, the example of Suwayd ibn Muqarrin who saw a man slap his female slave and told him: "Do you not know that the face is taboo? (al-sura muharrama) I, whom you see in front of you, the seventh of my brothers, was with the Messenger of Allah and we only had one servant; one of us slapped him, so the Messenger of Allah commanded us to free him."

(c) A man from the Ansar insulted al-`Abbas's father who lived in the Time of Ignorance, whereupon al-`Abbas slapped him. The man returned to his people who said: "By Allah, we shall slap him just as he slapped him," and they girded their weapons. News of this reached the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] who ascended the pulpit and said: "O people! Who among the dwellers of the earth is deemed most honorable in the presence of Allah?" They said, "You." He continued: "And al-`Abbas is part of me, and I am part of him. Do not insult our dead, thereby harming our living." The people then came to the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] and said: "O Messenger of Allah! We seek refuge in Allah from your anger." Narrated from Ibn `Abbas by Ahmad and al-Nasa'i with a sound chain according to al-`Iraqi in Takhrij Ahadith al-Ihya', also al-Tabarani in al-Mu`jam al-Kabir.

Al-Sindi in his commentary on al-Nasa'i's Sunan said: "Since he had begun with the insult, the slap received was not to obtain retaliation."

Note that the directive of the above hadith was royally ignored by the Wahhabi preacher of the Prophet's Mosque in Madina, Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri, who used to shout at the top of his lungs, right next to al-Mustafa [salallahu alayhi wasalam] ?: "The father and mother of the Prophet are in hellfire! The father and mother of the Prophet are in hellfire!" and so until his death last year. I wonder, should we believe that Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri and his parents are in Paradise, while the parents of the Prophet Muhammad [salallahu alayhi wasalam] are in hellfire? Hasbuna Allah.

The ruling of automatic manumission for striking a slave in the face is estalished by the following hadith of the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] :

(d) "Whoever strikes his slave in the face or beats him unjustly, his expiation is to manumit him." Narrated from Ibn `Umar by Muslim in his Sahih.

The ruling that the face is taboo is established by the following hadith of the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] [/url]:

(e) "If you fight your brother, avoid striking the face, for Allah created Adam in his image." Narrated from Abu Hurayra by Muslim and al-Bukhari, the latter without the words "your brother." If this is forbidden while fighting or when interacting with a slave, then a fortiori it is forbidden outside fighting and with one's wife.

Do not be misled by the Satanic whispers of domini.org which states:
"The occasion in which Q 4:34 was revealed sheds more light on the meaning of that verse. Most commentators mention that the above verse was revealed in connection with a woman who complained to Mohammad that her husband slapped her on the face (which was still marked by the slap). At first the Prophet said to her: 'Get even with him', but then added : 'Wait until I think about it.' Later on the above verse was revealed, after which the Prophet said: 'We wanted one thing but Allah wanted another, and what Allah wanted is best.'[Razi, At-tafsir al-Kabir, on Q. 4:34.]" Crafty, crafty, and all for what? lies. Ars longa, vita brevis!

The commentators also mention that this report is narrated only from al-Hasan al-Basri who is NOT a Companion. The most that can be said of it here is that it is a weak, isolated, mursal Tabi`i report that does not have probative force.

What is more, al-Hasan himself flatly contradicts the above as he reportedly explained {wadribuhunna} to mean: "hitting that is not obscene; hitting that *does not leave a trace*" (darban ghayra mubarrih ghayra mu'aththir). Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (Dar al-Fikr reprint 5:68).

And Allah Most High knows best.

{Wa Makaru wa Makara Allah wAllahu Khayru-l-Makirin}

{Yuridun an yutfi'u Nur Allah bi Afwahihim wa Ya'ba Allah

Illa an Yatimma Nurahu wa law Kariha al-Kafirun}

Blessings and peace of Allah on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions.

Hajj Gibril GF Haddad ©

[url="http://www.sunnipath.com/"]www.sunnipath.com (http://www.abc.se/%7Em9783/fiqhi/durood.gif)

MasterGoat
12-03-05, 04:31 PM
If any man tried to hit me with a stick, I'd laugh at him.

:rofl1:

Coventry Sister
12-03-05, 04:54 PM
Wife Beating is totally condoned (prohibited) in Islam.

Husband and wife should live happily with each other, each have their faults and each must percivere and ask for forgiveness from one another.

In today's society wife beating has moved to such a stage that even shouting and abusing one's position as in control can be classed as domestic violence. Certain muslim sisters have reacted negatively by asking advice from lawyers who are only interested in the financial gains that they will receive. If problems do arise then family and the muslim community should be contacted first and reconcilliation must be attempted first. If and when this fails, then the muslim sister should ask to be freed from the marriage.

It is not only muslim sisters who fear DV, the hidden truth is that our muslim brothers are also faced with DV and this has not been discussed !

H25
16-03-05, 05:02 PM
if my future husband raised his hands towards me - i would leave straight away cause if he does it once he will certainly do it again. i think men who hit their women should be ashamed of themselves. men are already stronger than women and just think how degrading it is when a man hits a woman!!!!! Honestly - that is the sadest thing a man can do.

Ebony
16-03-05, 05:14 PM
Its disgraceful.

Crono
16-03-05, 09:05 PM
don't beat...pinch..pinching hurts more..and doesn't leave a mark

edit:oh, and if a woman i am not married to..is man enough to hit me...then she is man enough to get hit

MG
16-03-05, 09:08 PM
don't beat...pinch..pinching hurts more..and doesn't leave a mark

edit:oh, and if a woman i am not married to..is man enough to hit me...then she is man enough to get hit

whhaaaaaatttt!!

pinch? :rofl1: :rofl1:

Crono
16-03-05, 09:10 PM
let me pinch you..and you tell me if it is worse then getting hit lol

Ebony
16-03-05, 09:24 PM
Actually a pinch may hurt more.
But i suppose a slap using the back of your hand may leave more bruises

a mu-min
17-03-05, 03:00 AM
THe prophet never hit any of he's wife. one point you are allowd to descipline your children. where i cam from children are discipline and don't talk back to their parents but here they cursed at their parents faces no respect for the elders.

client_x
17-03-05, 03:34 AM
My dad hit my mom when i was little,... now i'm a big girl... so... whatever it is, it's all in the past but i never respect a man who raise his hands towards any woman. NEVER

Guardian Hijab
17-03-05, 04:30 AM
My dad hit my mom when i was little,... now i'm a big girl... so... whatever it is, it's all in the past but i never respect a man who raise his hands towards any woman. NEVER

Asalamualaikum

May Allah give peace for your mothers suffering, and inshAllah He will bring her justice

and beat your wife? when im married inshAllah i'll dare my husband to hit me, no..i'll double dare him:):badguy: :bangbang: :boom:

Wa'alaikumasalam

PiElle
17-03-05, 06:11 AM
eewww.... pinching's such a petty gesture. all abuses, physical and verbal should be prohibited.

PiElle
17-03-05, 06:14 AM
and name calling... tsk tsk...

MG
17-03-05, 06:50 AM
let me pinch you..and you tell me if it is worse then getting hit lol

pinch me? *MG strts sharpening her nails*

i told i only have to be grabbed by the arm a little rough and thats it,i got a bruise!

Nettle
16-09-05, 07:26 PM
according to page 629 of my wehr arabic- english dictionary, darb means beat , hit, strike, but it also means to turn away from, avoid shun to separate, to forsake abandon etc.



Wife Beating




1. Does the Arabic word 'daraba' necessarily mean "violent or intense or repeated striking?"




No.

Jurists routinely use the expression "daraba al-ma' `ala wajhihi" - lit. strike water upon the face, for someone accomplishing the first rukn of wudu' (washing the face).



Also in Arabic daraba al-ard "to strike the earth" - as in verse 4:94 {When you strike the earth in the cause of Allah} - means to travel, i.e. walking with a staff.





2. Has the phrase 'wadribuhunna' in 4:34 normally been interpreted as a command or has it been interpreted as more of a recommendation?




Not even a recommendation. Al-Razi said in his Tafsir on 4:34 (1308/1891 edition 3:222): "Al-Shaf`i said: 'wa al-darbu mubah, wa al-tarku afdal - and hitting is permitted, but not hitting is preferable.'"

NB: Al-Shafi`i's position is therefore that it is "permissible", NOT "just barely permissible" as misrepresented by Muhammad Asad. [_The Message of the Qur'an_, translation and commentary of the Qur'an by Muhammad Asad (1980), footnote 45, p. 109 (one of the commentaries on verse 4:34).]

The basic rule (asl) is strict prohibition, followed by dispensation (rukhsa) as explicited by the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] in the hadith below, which al-Shafi`i took for his evidence in his ruling:

The Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] said: "Do not hit the maidservants of Allah!" (la tadribu ima' Allah). Then `Umar (RA) came to the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] (http://www.abc.se/%7Em9783/fiqhi/durood.gif)and said [NB: by way of exaggeration, cf. `Awn al-Ma`bud]: "The women are rebelling (dha'irna) against their husbands!" So the Prophet[salallahu alayhi wasalam] GAVE A DISPENSATION (rakhkhasa) to beat them. Whereupon women started pouring in to see the family of the Messenger of Allah and complain about their husbands. Seeing this, the Prophet[salallahu alayhi wasalam] said: "Many women have poured in to see the family of Muhammad, complaining of their husbands, and *the latter are certainly not the best of you*." Narrated from Iyas ibn `Abd Allah ibn Abi Dhubab by al-Shafi`i in his Musnad, Abu Dawud, al-Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, al-Tabarani in al-Kabir, and al-Hakim. Al-Nawawi and al-Suyuti graded it a sound (sahih) narration in Riyad al-Salihin [RS-281] and al-Jami` al-Saghir respectively.

In a version cited by al-Razi in his Tafsir, (3:222) `Umar also states: "We the Quraysh used to have our men holding sway over our women. Then we came to Madina and found that their women held sway over their men. Then our women mixed with their women until they rebelled (dha'irna) against their husbands. So I came to the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] and told him: 'The women are rebelling against their husbands!' So he [salallahu alayhi wasalam] GAVE PERMISSION (adhina) to beat them. Whereupon, etc."

Some people who were influenced by feminism until they forgot the Adab of Islam, tend to badmouth Sayyidina `Umar for what they term his mistreatment of women. While it is true that the Arabs in general and Sayyidina `Umar in particular had a very high sense of self-respect (ghira) as attested by no less than the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] (in the hadith where he mentions seeing `Umar's palace in Paradise), nevertheless we should observe Adab so as not to commit a sin whenever mentioning the Prophet[salallahu alayhi wasalam] , his Family, and His Companions, indeed all Muslims as Allah (SWT) made the honor of a Muslim as sacrosanct as his life and property.

The Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] also expressed astonishment at the cruelty of certain men when he said: "Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" (Bukhari and Muslim).







The crafty little anti-Islam page on domini.org states:
"The Qur'an states:




"Righteous women are therefore obedient, And those you fear may be rebellious (nushuz) admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them."

"Some translators add the word lightly after 'beat them' in Q 4:34. Others like Mohammed Pickthall and Rodwell translate the word 'edrebouhon - beat them' as 'scourge them'. [...] But "a beating without causing injury" (agreed upon) "So the man has the right to beat his rebellious wife as long as that beating is not like the whipping of the slave and will not result in injury."




Of course the above is false and tendentious but couched in the syrupy style typical of missionaries.




The hadith in Muslim states that the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] in his Farewell Pilgrimage said: "Lo! My last recommendation to you is that you should TREAT WOMEN WELL. Truly they are your helpmates, and you have no right over them beyond that - EXCEPT IF THEY COMMIT A MANIFEST INDECENCY (fahisha mubina = adultery). If they do, then refuse to share their beds and beat them WITHOUT INDECENT VIOLENCE (fadribuhunna darban ghayra mubarrih*). Then, if they obey you, do not show them hostility any longer. Lo! you have a right over your women and they have a right over you. Your right over your women is that they not allow whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house. While their right over them is that you treat them excellently in their garb and provision."

*** Then he [salallahu alayhi wasalam] took the covenant from them and from us that they and we all heard and understood this from him, respectively, directly and indirectly, with his forefinger raised, and said: "O Allah! bear witness." ***

After this, whatever Muslim man derogates to the recommendation of the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] has violated his covenant with the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] and shall be called to account for it; and whoever of the non-Muslim men or women claims - even the Archbishop of Canterbury and his wife - that beating women is allowed in Islam, has belied the Divine witness invoked by the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] and shall be called to account for it in the Divine Court.

*"Mubarrih" is defined in al-Mawrid as "violent, intense, severe, acute, sharp, excruciating, tormenting, agonizing." Qatada said as narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (5:68): "Ghayr mubarrih means ghayr sha'in = not disgraceful/ outrageous/ obscene/ indecent ." Muhammad Asad translates it over-figuratively as "not causing pain."



3. What is the evidence for saying that this 'striking' is in fact only supposed to be carried out with something small, like a miswak?




`Ata' said: "I asked Ibn `Abbas: 'What is the hitting that is ghayr al-mubarrih?' He replied: '[With] the siwak and the like'." Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (Dar al-Fikr reprint 5:68).



Al-Razi (3:222) mentions that as a rule (a) it must be a light beating and (b) the face must be avoided. He added that certain of the Shafi`i jurists said "a coiled scarf (mindil malfuf) (NB: NOT "a folded handkerchief" as mistranslated by Asad) or his hand may be used but not a whip nor a stick."





4. Where is the hadith found in which the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] said to a servant-girl who had been extremely late "If I were not afraid of Allah, I would hit you with this" referring to a miswak?




Ibn Sa`d in al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, Al-Tabarani in al-Mu`jam al-Kabir, Abu Ya`la in his Musnad, Abu Nu`aym in Hilyat al-Awliya' and al-Hakim in al-Mustadrak narrated from Umm Salama: "The Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] was in my house and there was a siwak in his hand. He called for Wasifa [the servant-girl] to come to him or to her but she tarried until anger was visible on his face. So Umm Salama went out to her and found her playing with an animal. She said to her: "You are playing while the Messenger of Allah is calling you?" She replied: "No, by the one who sent you with truth! I did not hear you." Whereupon the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] said: "Were it not for fear of exaction (qawad) on the Day of Resurrection, I should surely make you sore (la'awja`tuki) with this toothpick."



Al-Munawi in Fayd al-Qadir mentioned that al-Mundhiri and al-Haythami declared its chain of transmission good. Al-Suyuti graded the hadith "fair" (hasan) in al-Jami` al-Saghir. Al-Muttaqi cited it in Kanz al-`Ummal (#39820, 39821, 39829).



[b][i]5. What is the exact meaning of 'nushuz'? It is translated as disobedience, but there seem to be others who think it means something more like 'ill-will' or 'hostility' or 'ill-treatment'.




It depends on context and how these terms are themselves understood by those who use them. Ill-treatment on the part of a wife to her husband, for example, is a bit different from ill-treatment on the part of a grocer to his customer.

Nushuz is translated "Recalcitrance, disobedience, violation of marital duties on the part of the wife" in al-Mawrid Ar-Eng Dictionary.

Nushuz in the verse, as shown, is an euphemism for adultery because her primary marital duty is spelled out in the hadith as "not allowing whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house." Al-Maziri also said that another interpretation of the words in that hadith said it referred to a woman sitting in seclusion with a stranger inside her husband's house. (Al-Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim.)

6. Is it not true that slapping someone on the face is not allowed in Islam? Is there a consensus on this point?




It is a transgression requiring exaction (qawad) which can be changed into monetary compensation (diyya) in the Four Schools, and Allah knows best.

Examples: (a) the famous hadith from Mu`awiya ibn al-Hakam in Sahih Muslim of the black woman slave whom her owner slaps and is then obligated to manumit as her compensation.

(b) Also in Sahih Muslim, the example of Suwayd ibn Muqarrin who saw a man slap his female slave and told him: "Do you not know that the face is taboo? (al-sura muharrama) I, whom you see in front of you, the seventh of my brothers, was with the Messenger of Allah and we only had one servant; one of us slapped him, so the Messenger of Allah commanded us to free him."

(c) A man from the Ansar insulted al-`Abbas's father who lived in the Time of Ignorance, whereupon al-`Abbas slapped him. The man returned to his people who said: "By Allah, we shall slap him just as he slapped him," and they girded their weapons. News of this reached the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] who ascended the pulpit and said: "O people! Who among the dwellers of the earth is deemed most honorable in the presence of Allah?" They said, "You." He continued: "And al-`Abbas is part of me, and I am part of him. Do not insult our dead, thereby harming our living." The people then came to the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] and said: "O Messenger of Allah! We seek refuge in Allah from your anger." Narrated from Ibn `Abbas by Ahmad and al-Nasa'i with a sound chain according to al-`Iraqi in Takhrij Ahadith al-Ihya', also al-Tabarani in al-Mu`jam al-Kabir.

Al-Sindi in his commentary on al-Nasa'i's Sunan said: "Since he had begun with the insult, the slap received was not to obtain retaliation."

Note that the directive of the above hadith was royally ignored by the Wahhabi preacher of the Prophet's Mosque in Madina, Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri, who used to shout at the top of his lungs, right next to al-Mustafa [salallahu alayhi wasalam] ?: "The father and mother of the Prophet are in hellfire! The father and mother of the Prophet are in hellfire!" and so until his death last year. I wonder, should we believe that Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri and his parents are in Paradise, while the parents of the Prophet Muhammad [salallahu alayhi wasalam] are in hellfire? Hasbuna Allah.

The ruling of automatic manumission for striking a slave in the face is estalished by the following hadith of the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] :

(d) "Whoever strikes his slave in the face or beats him unjustly, his expiation is to manumit him." Narrated from Ibn `Umar by Muslim in his Sahih.

The ruling that the face is taboo is established by the following hadith of the Prophet [salallahu alayhi wasalam] :

(e) "If you fight your brother, avoid striking the face, for Allah created Adam in his image." Narrated from Abu Hurayra by Muslim and al-Bukhari, the latter without the words "your brother." If this is forbidden while fighting or when interacting with a slave, then a fortiori it is forbidden outside fighting and with one's wife.







Do not be misled by the Satanic whispers of domini.org which states:
"The occasion in which Q 4:34 was revealed sheds more light on the meaning of that verse. Most commentators mention that the above verse was revealed in connection with a woman who complained to Mohammad that her husband slapped her on the face (which was still marked by the slap). At first the Prophet said to her: 'Get even with him', but then added : 'Wait until I think about it.' Later on the above verse was revealed, after which the Prophet said: 'We wanted one thing but Allah wanted another, and what Allah wanted is best.'[Razi, At-tafsir al-Kabir, on Q. 4:34.]" Crafty, crafty, and all for what? lies. Ars longa, vita brevis!




The commentators also mention that this report is narrated only from al-Hasan al-Basri who is NOT a Companion. The most that can be said of it here is that it is a weak, isolated, mursal Tabi`i report that does not have probative force.

What is more, al-Hasan himself flatly contradicts the above as he reportedly explained {wadribuhunna} to mean: "hitting that is not obscene; hitting that *does not leave a trace*" (darban ghayra mubarrih ghayra mu'aththir). Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (Dar al-Fikr reprint 5:68).

And Allah Most High knows best.

{Wa Makaru wa Makara Allah wAllahu Khayru-l-Makirin}

{Yuridun an yutfi'u Nur Allah bi Afwahihim wa Ya'ba Allah

Illa an Yatimma Nurahu wa law Kariha al-Kafirun}

Blessings and peace of Allah on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions.

Hajj Gibril GF Haddad ©

www.sunnipath.com (http://www.sunnipath.com/)

Al-Irhaab
16-09-05, 09:50 PM
it is allowed to hit ur wife but the difference in islam with what it means to hit ur wife and the west or even the non-muslim hindu cultures is plain to see..

in the west and non-muslim cultures ur wife does something u dislike or even if ur in a bad mood u turn ardound and clock her one full wack like ur a boxer and ur fighting ten men... in the hindu culture this wld be a sign of keeping ur wife in check (sick b******)

in islam hitting ur wife is the last stage... first u wld chastise her and scold her if she has done something haram or refused u or disobeyed u.... u wld spk to her explain to her her duties ... get someone to spk to her etc go through all the talking stages...

then u wld separate ur beds ... to show her ur really angry (when a man dont sleep with his wife u know hes vexed and its serious)

then after all this is exhausted u wld hit her... the hitting in islam is again simple no bruises no marks no touching of the face... like one of the sisters said try hitting someone without leaving a mark on them... is close to impossible... the idea with the stick is to take it and like a pinch just press against her body to show that ur really really angry... again no brusing can be left and ur wife cant feel like aahh damn hospital time ....that is what is classed at hitting...

if all this fails then u look for divorce...

how this is sick and inhumane is beyond me... :scratch:

Mujaheedah
17-09-05, 12:35 AM
i know all about the controversy in husbands beating wifes and stuff, me myself i dont think ill ever allow my husband inshaalah if i get married to raise his hand, if that means me trying my best not to bring it close to that situation, but what about when a woman beats up her husband i mean physically knocking him out, i know of this one sister and her husband came to a sheikh to see if he could help in any way, and the sheikh was shocked, he didnt really have an answer for him... and the brother is in desperate need of help because he fears for his body.

Ayah
17-09-05, 05:55 AM
Mujaheedah, I think that in a situation like that, the husband should pay a visit to her family & make them aware of what she's doing. Normally, if they were having disagreements about any issue(s), they should try to resolve it on their own. However, if she's so ignorant in resorting to this type of unacceptable behavior, then I don't know if talking about it (1-to-1) would really help. If it's not resolved, then he should consider divorcing her.

www.islam-qa.com (http://www.islam-qa.com)
The husband’s rights over his wife
The rights of the husband over his wife are among the greatest rights; indeed his rights over her are greater than her rights over him, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them [al-Baqarah 2:228]

al-Jassaas said: Allaah tells us in this aayah that each of the spouses has rights over the other, and that the husband has one particular right over his wife which she does not have over him.

Ibn al-‘Arabi said: this text states that he has some preference over her with regard to rights and duties of marriage.

These rights include:

(a) The obligation of obedience. Allaah has made the man a qawwaam (protector and maintainer) of the woman by commanding, directing and taking care of her, just as guardians take care of their charges, by virtue of the physical and mental faculties that Allaah has given only to men and the financial obligations that He has enjoined upon them. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means” [al-Nisaa’ 4:34]

‘Ali ibn Abi Talhah said, narrating from Ibn ‘Abbaas: “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women” means, they are in charge of them, i.e., she should obey him in matters of obedience that Allaah has enjoined upon her, and obey him by treating his family well and taking care of his wealth. This was the view of Muqaatil, al-Saddi and al-Dahhaak. (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/492)

(b) Making herself available to her husband. One of the rights that the husband has over his wife is that he should be able to enjoy her (physically). If he marries a woman and she is able to have intercourse, she is obliged to submit herself to him according to the contract, if he asks her. That is after he gives her the immediate mahr, and gives her some time – two or three days, if she asks for that – to sort herself out, because that is something that she needs, and because that is not too long and is customary.

If a wife refuses to respond to her husband’s request for intercourse, she has done something haraam and has committed a major sin, unless she has a valid shar’i excuse such as menses, obligatory fasting, sickness, etc.

It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘When a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, and he went to sleep angry with her, the angels will curse her until morning.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3065; Muslim, 1436)

(c) Not admitting anyone whom the husband dislikes. One of the rights that the husband has over his wife is that she should not permit anyone whom he dislikes to enter his house.

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permitted for a woman to fast when her husband is present without his permission, or to admit anyone into his house without his permission. And whatever she spends (in charity) of his wealth without his consent, ….” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4899; Muslim, 1026)


It was narrated from Sulaymaan ibn ‘Amr ibn al-Ahwas: my father told me that he was present at the Farewell Pilgrimage (Hujjat al-Wadaa’) with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He [the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] praised and glorified Allaah, then he preached a sermon and said: “Treat women kindly, for they are prisoners and you have no other power over them than that, if they are guilty of open lewdness, then refuse to share their beds, and hit them, but not severely. But if they return to obedience, (then) do not seek means (of annoyance) against them. You have rights over your women and your women have rights over you. Your rights over your women are that they should not let anyone whom you dislike sit on your bed and they should not let anyone whom you dislike enter your house. Their rights over you are that you should feed and clothe them well.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1163 – he said this is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. Also narrated by Ibn Maajah, 1851)

It was narrated that Jaabir said: [the Prophet] (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:


“Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have rights over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed whom you do not like. But if they do that, you can chastise them but not severely. Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner” (Narrated by Muslim, 1218)

(d) Not going out of the house except with the husband’s permission. One of the rights of the husband over his wife is that she should not go out of the house except with his permission.

The Shaafa’is and Hanbalis said: she does not have the right to visit (even) her sick father except with the permission of her husband, and he has the right to prevent her from doing that… because obedience to the husband is obligatory, and it is not permitted to neglect an obligatory action for something that is not obligatory.

(e) Discipline. The husband has the right to discipline his wife if she disobeys him in something good, not if she disobeys him in something sinful, because Allaah has enjoined disciplining women by forsaking them in bed and by hitting them, when they do not obey.

The Hanafis mentioned four situations in which a husband is permitted to discipline his wife by hitting her. These are: not adorning herself when he wants her to; not responding when he calls her to bed and she is taahirah (pure, i.e., not menstruating); not praying; and going out of the house without his permission.

The evidence that it is permissible to discipline one's wife includes the aayahs (interpretation of the meaning):

“As to those women on whose part you see ill‑conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful)” [al-Nisaa’ 4:34]

“O you who believe! Ward off yourselves and your families against a Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones” [al-Tahreem 66:6]

Ibn Katheer said:

Qutaadah said: you should command them to obey Allaah, and forbid them to disobey Allaah; you should be in charge of them in accordance with the command of Allaah, and instruct them to follow the commands of Allaah, and help them to do so. If you see any act of disobedience towards Allaah, then stop them from doing it and rebuke them for that.


This was also the view of al-Dahhaak and Muqaatil: that the duty of the Muslim is to teach his family, including his relatives and his slaves, that which Allaah has enjoined upon them and that which He has forbidden them. (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 4/392)

(f) The wife serving her husband. There is a great deal of evidence (daleel) for this, some of which has been mentioned above.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said:


She is obliged to serve her husband according to what is reasonable among people of similar standing. That varies according to circumstances: the way in which a Bedouin woman serves (her husband) will not be like the way of a town-dweller, and the way of a strong woman will not be like the way of a weak woman. (al-Fataawa al-Kubraa, 4/561)

(g) Submitting herself to him. Once the conditions of the marriage-contract have been fulfilled and it is valid, then the woman is obliged to submit herself to her husband and allow him to enjoy her (physically), because once the contract is completed, he is allowed in return to enjoy her, and the wife is entitled to the compensation which is the mahr.

(h) The wife should treat her husband in a good manner, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable” [al-Baqarah 2:228]

Al-Qurtubi said:

It was also narrated from him – i.e., Ibn ‘Abbaas – that this means: they have the right to good companionship and kind and reasonable treatment from their husbands just as they are obliged to obey the commands of their husbands.

And it was said that they have the right that their husbands should not harm them, and their husbands have a similar right over them. This was the view of al-Tabari.

Ibn Zayd said: You should fear Allaah concerning them just as they should fear Allaah concerning you.

The meanings are similar, and the aayah includes all of that in the rights and duties of marriage.(Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 3/123-124)

The rights of the wife which are hers alone:
The wife has financial rights over her husband, which are the mahr (dowry), spending and accommodation.

And she has non-financial rights, such as fair division between co-wives, being treated in a decent and reasonable manner, and not being treated in a harmful way by her husband.

1. Financial rights

(a) The mahr (dowry). This is the money to which the wife is entitled from her husband when the marriage contract is completed or when the marriage is consummated. It is a right which the man is obliged to pay to the woman. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


“And give to the women (whom you marry) their Mahr (obligatory bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) with a good heart” [al-Nisaa’ 4:4]

The prescription of the mahr demonstrates the seriousness and importance of the marriage-contract, and is a token of respect and honour to the woman.

The mahr is not a condition or essential part of the marriage-contract, according to the majority of fuqahaa’; rather it is one of the consequences of the contract. If the marriage-contract is done without any mention of the mahr, it is still valid, according to the consensus of the majority, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“There is no sin on you, if you divorce women while yet you have not touched (had sexual relation with) them, nor appointed unto them their Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage)” [al-Baqarah 2:236]

The fact that divorce is permitted before consummation of the marriage or before stipulating the mahr indicates that it is permissible not to stipulate the mahr in the marriage-contract.

If the mahr is stipulated, it becomes obligatory upon the husband; if it is not stipulated, then he must give the mahr that is given to women of similar status to his wife.

(b) Spending. The scholars of Islam are agreed that it is obligatory for husbands to spend on their wives, on the condition that the wife make herself available to her husband. If she refuses him or rebels, then she is not entitled to that spending.

The reason why it is obligatory to spend on her is that the woman is available only to her husband, because of the marriage contract, and she is not allowed to leave the marital home except with his permission. So he has to spend on her and provide for her, and this is in return for her making herself available to him for his pleasure.

What is meant by spending is providing what the wife needs of food and accommodation. She has the right to these things even if she is rich, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“but the father of the child shall bear the cost of the mother’s food and clothing on a reasonable basis” [al-Baqarah 2:233]

“Let the rich man spend according to his means; and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allaah has given him” [al-Talaaq 65:7]

From the Sunnah:

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Hind bint ‘Utbah – the wife of Abu Sufyaan – who had complained that he did not spend on her: “Take what is sufficient for you and your children, on a reasonable basis.”

It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah said: “Hind bint ‘Utbah, the wife of Abu Sufyaan, entered upon the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, Abu Sufyaan is a stingy man who does not spend enough on me and my children, except for what I take from his wealth without his knowledge. Is there any sin on me for doing that?’ The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘Take from his wealth on a reasonable basis, only what is sufficient for you and your children.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5049; Muslim, 1714)

It was narrated from Jaabir that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said in his Farewell Sermon:


“Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have rights over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed [i.e., not let them into the house] whom you do not like. But if they do that, you can chastise them but not severely. Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner” (Narrated by Muslim, 1218)

(c) Accommodation. This is also one of the wife’s rights, which means that her husband should prepare for her accommodation according to his means and ability. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


“Lodge them (the divorced women) where you dwell, according to your means” [al-Talaaq 65:6]

2. Non-financial rights

(i) Fair treatment of co-wives. One of the rights that a wife has over her husband is that she and her co-wives should be treated equally, if the husband has other wives, with regard to nights spent with them, spending and clothing.

(ii) Kind treatment. The husband must have a good attitude towards his wife and be kind to her, and offer her everything that may soften her heart towards him, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“and live with them honourably” [al-Nisaa’ 4:19]

“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable” [al-Baqarah 2:228]

From the Sunnah:

It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Be kind to women.’”(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3153; Muslim, 1468).

There follow examples of the kind treatment of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) towards his wives – for he is the best example:

1. It was narrated from Zaynab bint Abi Salamah that Umm Salamah said: “I got my menses when I was lying with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) under a single woollen sheet. I slipped away and put on the clothes I usually wore for menstruation. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to me, ‘Have you got your menses?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ Then he called me and made me lie with him under the same sheet.”

She said: And she told me that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to kiss her when he was fasting, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and I used to do ghusl to cleanse ourselves from janaabah from one vessel.(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 316; Muslim, 296)

2. It was narrated that ‘Urwah ibn al-Zubayr said: “ ‘Aa’ishah said: ‘By Allaah, I saw the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) standing at the door of my apartment when the Abyssinians were playing with their spears in the Mosque of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He covered me with his cloak so that I could watch their games, then he stood there for my sake until I was the one who had had enough. So you should appreciate the fact that young girls like to have fun.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 443; Muslim, 892)

3. It was narrated from ‘Aa’ishah the Mother of the Believers (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to pray sitting down; he would recite Qur’aan when he was sitting down, then when there were thirty or forty aayahs left, he would stand up and recite them standing up. Then he did rukoo’, then sujood; then he would do likewise in the second rak’ah. When he had finished his prayer, he would look, and if I was awake he would talk with me, and if I was asleep he would lie down.

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1068)

(c) Not harming one’s wife.

This is one of the basic principles of Islam. Because harming others is haraam in the case of strangers, it is even more so in the case of harming one’s wife.

It was narrated from ‘Ubaadah ibn al-Saamit that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ruled, “There should be no harming nor reciprocating harm.” (Narrated by Ibn Maajah,, 2340)

This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Imaam Ahmad, al-Haakim, Ibn al-Salaah and others. See [i]Khalaasat al-Badr al-Muneer, 2/438.

Among the things to which the Lawgiver drew attention in this matter is the prohibition of hitting or beating in a severe manner.

It was narrated from Jaabir that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said in his Farewell Sermon:


“Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have rights over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed [i.e., not let them into the house] whom you do not like. But if they do that, you can chastise them but not severely. Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner” (Narrated by Muslim, 1218)

Al-Irhaab
17-09-05, 02:17 PM
i know all about the controversy in husbands beating wifes and stuff, me myself i dont think ill ever allow my husband inshaalah if i get married to raise his hand, if that means me trying my best not to bring it close to that situation, but what about when a woman beats up her husband i mean physically knocking him out, i know of this one sister and her husband came to a sheikh to see if he could help in any way, and the sheikh was shocked, he didnt really have an answer for him... and the brother is in desperate need of help because he fears for his body.

sister the brother shld grow up and be a man.... just because ur not allowed to hit ur wife doesnt mean ur not allowed to contain her... he should just shout at her one time if she goes for him grip her put her into a lock wrestle her to the ground and just hold her their until her akar goes... then he should do the honourable thing divorce her and let her find a husband who will marry her without her virginity and being the way she is...

ur_yusra
17-09-05, 05:59 PM
ermmmmm wat ????????? it is perfectly allowed to marry a divorced woman and many ppl do, what has virginity got to do with anything... some men are so ignorant... as to the womans attitude yes that wud be an incentive for a man to not marry that particular woman.. ANYWAY... I have a question.. how does a woman respond to a husband who does something haram.. i guess she could just divorce him, what if he doesnt fulfil her rights? ... what if hes mean to her...

jimm
18-09-05, 03:47 AM
sister the brother shld grow up and be a man.... just because ur not allowed to hit ur wife doesnt mean ur not allowed to contain her... he should just shout at her one time if she goes for him grip her put her into a lock wrestle her to the ground and just hold her their until her akar goes... then he should do the honourable thing divorce her and let her find a husband who will marry her without her virginity and being the way she is...

is the wife permitted to 'contain' her husband?

what if the husband needs a whack or two?

The idea of hitting anyone is absurd. If he wants to wrestle how about he go and do it with other guys, if wants to hit someone, how about he go and hit another man who would most likely return the favour.

Finally, why is it that you are so quick to come to the issue of divorce? How is it honourable to divorce a woman because she may not have agreed with what you have said?

Proud_2B_Muslim
18-09-05, 04:40 AM
Finally, why is it that you are so quick to come to the issue of divorce? How is it honourable to divorce a woman because she may not have agreed with what you have said?

I believe he was saying a man should divorce a woman who hits him, not one who disagrees with him.

jimm
18-09-05, 06:18 AM
I believe he was saying a man should divorce a woman who hits him, not one who disagrees with him.

ok, i should have been a little more conscise with what i was trying to say, my fault.

Moving on, should the wife divorce the husband if he hits her?

MG
18-09-05, 09:03 AM
ok, i should have been a little more conscise with what i was trying to say, my fault.

Moving on, should the wife divorce the husband if he hits her?

if the woman is not strong enuff to put her foot down and show him that she will not stand for this behaviour, then i wouldnt say divorce him but if she is , fearful of him and cant say wat she wants then the best thing would be divorce because she will be getting that treatment for the rest of her life.

Al-Irhaab
18-09-05, 01:06 PM
ok, i should have been a little more conscise with what i was trying to say, my fault.

Moving on, should the wife divorce the husband if he hits her?

if the wife hits the husband the husband shld try to restrain her and teach her who is the man in the household is subdue her...

if the husband beats the wife ... my opinion wife should divorce his sad .....

nd no u dont divorce ur wife if she disagrees with u... then marriages wldnt last very long would they...

Al-Irhaab
18-09-05, 01:12 PM
ermmmmm wat ????????? it is perfectly allowed to marry a divorced woman and many ppl do, what has virginity got to do with anything... some men are so ignorant... as to the womans attitude yes that wud be an incentive for a man to not marry that particular woman.. ANYWAY... I have a question.. how does a woman respond to a husband who does something haram.. i guess she could just divorce him, what if he doesnt fulfil her rights? ... what if hes mean to her...

i know it is allowed to marry a divorced woman and many people do but its not obviously the same as marrying a virgin... read the hadith abt the prophet (Saw) reccomendation abt marrying virgins before you start calling some1 ignorant... after all it is something that our prophet (saw) advised ;)

if the husband does something haram she shld give him advise tell him what he is doing is haram... ask someone he respects to spk to him... if he continues to commit haram this will probably become a problem for her deen and her childrens deen then she has grounds for divorcing him... the woman has certain rights which much be fulfilled if they are not then she has grounds for khula.. as far as i can remember these are... security of her body, of her deen and of her children... if any three are jeapordised she has the right to khula...

you cant divorce your husband just because he doesnt say i love u enough :rotfl:
so beaning mean is not a criteria for divorce

jimm
18-09-05, 01:16 PM
if the wife hits the husband the husband shld try to restrain her and teach her who is the man in the household is subdue her...

if the husband beats the wife ... my opinion wife should divorce his sad .....

nd no u dont divorce ur wife if she disagrees with u... then marriages wldnt last very long would they...

what do you mean by 'who the man is'

Al-Irhaab
18-09-05, 01:37 PM
who the man who the husband the protector the looker after the carer of the house is :scratch:

ur_yusra
18-09-05, 04:33 PM
I guess women should refrain from marrying a man whose already been married... it cant be the same as marrying a man whose never been married... surely??

Al-Irhaab
18-09-05, 05:39 PM
the sunnah is the virgin shld marry the virgin... but obviously is a lot more different for the sisters then it is for the brothers.... anyway why u distracting the topic stick to the discussion at hand :rolleyes:

ur_yusra
18-09-05, 05:43 PM
why is it different for the sisters??

Al-Irhaab
18-09-05, 05:44 PM
ask the brothers...:scratch:

ur_yusra
18-09-05, 05:46 PM
huh?? what are u on about... are there any decent brothers on this forum or even in this world??

Al-Irhaab
18-09-05, 05:48 PM
why am i indecent :scratch:

outlandish
18-09-05, 06:51 PM
the sunnah is the virgin shld marry the virgin... but obviously is a lot more different for the sisters then it is for the brothers.... anyway why u distracting the topic stick to the discussion at hand :rolleyes:
And why is that,care explaining why its different for the brothers?
If marrying virgins was recommended than the prophet married a widow,whom was his first wife and ONLY wife till she died,so I where did this recommended to marry virgins come from,is that hadith even authentic

Guardian Hijab
18-09-05, 07:59 PM
Asalamualaikum

I dont understand this "disobeying ur husband" bit. Surely a husband should get the same punishment for disobeying his wife. Husbands cant do whatever they want eh? To me its a two-way street. If you want to go out, and ur husband wants to go, but someone needs to stay with the kids. Does ur husband automatically have the right to do whatever he pleases? No, if the two cant come in an agreement, they both dont do it. I think thats a misunderstanding alot of non-muslims have about islamic marriages. In Islam, both should worked together and find an arrangement that both are statisfied with. Or put aside the topic all together.

Simple as that.

Wa'alaiakumasalam

.: Anna :.
18-09-05, 10:14 PM
Wa alaykum salam wa rahmatullah sis guardian Hijab :)

About the disobedience to husband issue. We have 2 realise that after Allah, the husband's obedience is first to his mother whereas after Allah the wife's obedience is first to her husband. In Hadith Qudsi Allah said, "If I had ordered anyone to make sujood to anyone other than me, it would have been the wife to the husband."
So we can see that there should be some kind of obedience from the wife towards the husband. This is of course only in what is Halal and it is not allowed for the husband to oppress her etc, which is why it is important to chose a husband with taqwa cos then he will treat u well knowin that he will hv 2 answer 2 allah 4 hw he treated u

Al-Irhaab
18-09-05, 11:58 PM
Marry virgins for they have sweeter mouths, more productive wombs, and are contented with little they get." (Reported by At-Tabarani and it is Hasan


Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'

Both hadith are sahih however again like i said for the sisters although is not hadith is still advise of umar al khattab (Ra)...

Umar ibn Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, once heard about a woman who was married to an elderly man and he said: "O people, fear Allah and let people marry their types.”

but again what this has to do with the topic i dont know.... and no husbands do not have to obey their wives they shld ask their adivse but have no obligation to follow it never mind obey them.

ur_yusra
19-09-05, 03:31 PM
oh realllyyyyyyy??????? no obligation to follow?? i see so if ur wife says dont go out tonight or if she says.. please can u help me with something then u are under no obligation to do it?? so what are u going to tell her then?? do it urself i dnt have to obey u?? what happened to compassion and treating women kindly.. I wonder if people with your attitude have any respect for women at all.. why even ask her advice in the first place... shes obviously much more inferior.. maybe u shud make a rota for her, write down all the times shes allowed to go out... how many meals u want cooked in the day.. how long shes allowed to spend talking to her mates oh wait?? is she allowed to have any??? no didnt think so that might going over the limit slightly no? anyway im intrigued to know do u completely disregard the fact that Muhammad (saw) married a widow?? and also i assume that if u were divorced u would marry a divorcee and leave the non married for the non married

.: Anna :.
19-09-05, 05:00 PM
Yusra cool it insha Allah. The brother has not said anything wrong.
The best of men are the ones who are best to their wives and families and there is great reward in treating wives kindly and gently, helping them in the home (we already did that topic!) and spending money on them, but no the husband is not obliged to obey the wife and he does not need to ask her permission to go out, despite that she has to ask his permission from that. We can not argue with this or make a fuss over it etc because this is from Allah.

ur_yusra
19-09-05, 05:12 PM
well he can go out all he wants.. just as long as he doesnt expect to NOT be locked out when he returns home ...http://ummah.com/forum/images/icons/icon21.gif

.: Anna :.
19-09-05, 06:06 PM
you can't lock ur husband out of his own house, its very bad manners!
seriously sis, if u want ur husband to treat you nicely, then treat him nicely or how can you expect him to be happy and pleased with you and treat you well if u cause trouble and lock him outside??

Al-Irhaab
20-09-05, 01:25 AM
oh realllyyyyyyy??????? no obligation to follow?? i see so if ur wife says dont go out tonight or if she says.. please can u help me with something then u are under no obligation to do it?? so what are u going to tell her then?? do it urself i dnt have to obey u?? what happened to compassion and treating women kindly.. I wonder if people with your attitude have any respect for women at all.. why even ask her advice in the first place... shes obviously much more inferior.. maybe u shud make a rota for her, write down all the times shes allowed to go out... how many meals u want cooked in the day.. how long shes allowed to spend talking to her mates oh wait?? is she allowed to have any??? no didnt think so that might going over the limit slightly no? anyway im intrigued to know do u completely disregard the fact that Muhammad (saw) married a widow?? and also i assume that if u were divorced u would marry a divorcee and leave the non married for the non married

in answer to the above...

allowed to go out only after 8.30 am and before night time (exceptions must be given for any of the above...
can talk to her mates all she wants just as long as she does all her duties
ask their advice because the one who take shura is never misguided and the best of muslims is the one who treats his wife kidnly
wife is not inferior she has her duties and leadership and husband has his
if she asks u u are not under compulsion to obey but is good if you acede to her request and compromise
if ur wife says dont go out tonight u ask her why maybe dont go out depending on wot ur doing like if she says to me dont play football tonight i think gonna take 2 hrs to play... if i dont go then the other 9 brother who have booked cant play so i say ill be back in 2 hrs

prophet (saw) married a widow but he gave the above adise to us... if u dont like then wot u want me to say..

wot wld i do if i get divorced... inshallah not planning on getting divorced so next question

oh and 4 meals...

jimm
20-09-05, 02:17 AM
in answer to the above...

allowed to go out only after 8.30 am and before night time (exceptions must be given for any of the above...
can talk to her mates all she wants just as long as she does all her duties
ask their advice because the one who take shura is never misguided and the best of muslims is the one who treats his wife kidnly
wife is not inferior she has her duties and leadership and husband has his
if she asks u u are not under compulsion to obey but is good if you acede to her request and compromise
if ur wife says dont go out tonight u ask her why maybe dont go out depending on wot ur doing like if she says to me dont play football tonight i think gonna take 2 hrs to play... if i dont go then the other 9 brother who have booked cant play so i say ill be back in 2 hrs

prophet (saw) married a widow but he gave the above adise to us... if u dont like then wot u want me to say..

wot wld i do if i get divorced... inshallah not planning on getting divorced so next question

oh and 4 meals...

she may as well be married to a military officer who treats her like a soldier.

as for the meals, how about you cook them yourself, or will that decrease your 'manhood'?

.: Anna :.
20-09-05, 05:43 AM
what Irhabi said is not that unreasonable?

outlandish
20-09-05, 11:25 AM
[QUOTE=NameChange]in answer to the above...

allowed to go out only after 8.30 am and before night time (exceptions must be given for any of the above...
can talk to her mates all she wants just as long as she does all her duties
ask their advice because the one who take shura is never misguided and the best of muslims is the one who treats his wife kidnly
wife is not inferior she has her duties and leadership and husband has his
if she asks u u are not under compulsion to obey but is good if you acede to her request and compromise
if ur wife says dont go out tonight u ask her why maybe dont go out depending on wot ur doing like if she says to me dont play football tonight i think gonna take 2 hrs to play... if i dont go then the other 9 brother who have booked cant play so i say ill be back in 2 hrs

prophet (saw) married a widow but he gave the above adise to us... if u dont like then wot u want me to say..

wot wld i do if i get divorced... inshallah not planning on getting divorced so next question
[/QUOTE=NameChange]

The only virgin the prophet every married was Aisha(raz) the others were divorcess or widows,now wouldnt that contradict what the prophet said himself to marry virgins?
Gee I guess the same would go for women to marry only guys whom havent been used,now no one likes used things dont we?

With the attitude u have I wonder if divorce is inevitable.Your wife is not obliged to do the cooking for you,instead UR supposed to provide a maid if she doesnt want to.

.: Anna :.
20-09-05, 11:45 AM
Sahih Bukhari book 62 wedlock, marriage

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 14:

Narrated 'Aisha :

I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Suppose you landed in a valley where there is a tree of which something has been eaten and then you found trees of which nothing has been eaten, of which tree would you let your camel graze?" He said, "(I will let my camel graze) of the one of which nothing has been eaten before." (The sub-narrator added: 'Aisha meant that Allah's Apostle had not married a virgin besides herself .)

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 16:

Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah:

While we were returning from a Ghazwa (Holy Battle) with the Prophet, I started driving my camel fast, as it was a lazy camel A rider came behind me and pricked my camel with a spear he had with him, and then my camel started running as fast as the best camel you may see. Behold! The rider was the Prophet himself. He said, 'What makes you in such a hurry?" I replied, I am newly married " He said, "Did you marry a virgin or a matron? I replied, "A matron." He said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you may play with her and she with you?" When we were about to enter (Medina), the Prophet said, "Wait so that you may enter (Medina) at night so that the lady of unkempt hair may comb her hair and the one whose husband has been absent may shave her pubic region.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'

jimm
20-09-05, 12:18 PM
what Irhabi said is not that unreasonable?

it would be unreasonable to put the feelings of your 9 mates who wont be able to play a game of footy above your life partners wishes for you not to go and play.

Mary Carol
20-09-05, 12:23 PM
it would be unreasonable to put the feelings of your 9 mates who wont be able to play a game of footy above your life partners wishes for you not to go and play.

I guess the man has to make a decision whose team he is the better part of?

His footy mates or his life partner.

Al-Irhaab
20-09-05, 03:35 PM
it would be unreasonable to put the feelings of your 9 mates who wont be able to play a game of footy above your life partners wishes for you not to go and play.

so i should ruin the plans of nine muslim practicing brothers who get together to do something which is not haram keep fit once a week because my wife cant wait 2 hrs for me to get back even though i wld spend most of my time with her... who is being unreasonable here?

the problem with too many marriages is that husband and wife think that life is just marriage life is not just marriage marriage is a big chunk of your life but so is your brothers the rest of your family your work your deen etc... your wife would never say to you oh dont go to work today spend some time with me... but something that 10 brothers have planned and enjoy each others companies for 2 hours and keep fit and do something not haram i should stop because she is feeling pretentious... you do that and see how happy your marriage is when you have no friends and no life...

treat your wife well treat your family well treat your brothers well is not hard to do each has their own time and space...

Al-Irhaab
20-09-05, 03:41 PM
Quote:The only virgin the prophet every married was Aisha(raz) the others were divorcess or widows,now wouldnt that contradict what the prophet said himself to marry virgins?
Gee I guess the same would go for women to marry only guys whom havent been used,now no one likes used things dont we?

With the attitude u have I wonder if divorce is inevitable.Your wife is not obliged to do the cooking for you,instead UR supposed to provide a maid if she doesnt want to.Unquote

the prophet (saw) advised brothers to marry virgins he married others but what he advised his sahaba to do is different, again that is the advice of the prophet (Saw) if you have problems then nothing i can do about it....

if a sister wants to marry a virgin man then i dont see the problem...

your wife is obliged to do the cooking for you... you are not obliged to provide your wife with a maid... from where did you get that you are obliged to provide a maid for your wife? the prophet (Saw) specifically stopped fatima (ra) from having a maid and told her it was better for her not to...

why is divorce inevitable... is like when the wife says she needs her own space and her friends is ok but not for the husband..

i say treat your wife special as she deserves to be treated treat your family special as they deserve to be treated and treat your friends special as they deserve to be treated if u cant do all three and want to sacrifice the others for your wife then your a sad man whose gonna end up hating his wife for driving him away from the other people he loves.... no wonder pakis always think women cause trouble...

ur_yusra
20-09-05, 04:15 PM
Excellent logic...sisters must learn from this... next time ur sisters are relying on ur company ...maybe they mite want u to baby sit their kids or attend a dawah stall etc or maybe study the deen together please make that ur priority u wudnt want to let them down after all sisters can be abit emotional... the cooking cleaning etc can be left til later... and if ur sisters want u to stay longer then why not?? the hubby can get a take away...

Al-Irhaab
20-09-05, 04:19 PM
a wifes obediance is to her husband if he says come home she must come home... what dawah stalls are on at 22.00 and the best place for a wife according to Islam is.... you guessed it at home... and is a duty for the wife to cater for her husband before her friends kids... and if she gets permission for her husband to stay there then fine nothing wrong with it... and no need to get too emotional... how is ur husband going to cope tut tut

ur_yusra
20-09-05, 04:25 PM
I dont think he will cope... i'l just have to make sure hes a little more open minded then some...

Al-Irhaab
20-09-05, 04:35 PM
maybe u need to open his mind with like a scredriver reprogramme and have like an on off button aswell...

ur_yusra
20-09-05, 04:40 PM
or on the other hand.. I could just give him a good interview tell him what to expect and if he still wants to go ahead with it.. his choice

Al-Irhaab
20-09-05, 04:46 PM
does he have to fill in a written application with a 5 year checkable history and a credit plus criminial record check :rotfl:

ur_yusra
20-09-05, 04:58 PM
well he'l have to go through a series of tests.. heres to name but a few..

The washing up test
The how good are u at cooking exam (involves practical work)
The iron 20 pairs of clothes in 10 minutes test
The body building test
The DIY test
The ultimate humour test (third party may be present)

those are but a few..

Al-Irhaab
20-09-05, 05:05 PM
wots the body building test? what does it involve?

ur_yusra
20-09-05, 05:09 PM
The tests can only be revealed to potential participants im afraid..

.: Anna :.
20-09-05, 05:11 PM
man people give Irhabi such a hard time lol. The football thing is not even unreasonable.... Ok in an emergency, like say ur wife began to give birth or broke her leg im sure u will stay right bro? if there is no reason... then I agree with him its bit wrong 2 break ur word to the brothers.

if all the time the bro is out with his mates and never at home its not nice, but 2 hours per week of football is something good. also wife will complain if she doesnt get chance 2 see her mates, its the same for a guy too...

Al-Irhaab
20-09-05, 05:24 PM
man people give Irhabi such a hard time lol. The football thing is not even unreasonable.... Ok in an emergency, like say ur wife began to give birth or broke her leg im sure u will stay right bro? if there is no reason... then I agree with him its bit wrong 2 break ur word to the brothers.

if all the time the bro is out with his mates and never at home its not nice, but 2 hours per week of football is something good. also wife will complain if she doesnt get chance 2 see her mates, its the same for a guy too...

sis exactly if its an emergency then u leave but i mean if shes just bored then why break my word to 9 brothers and ruin their day... especially when u dont get a chance to get together anyway.... and yes if the bro gives no time to his wife then that is not allowed either she has her rights.... too many people on this forum are like what u call it tooo defensive of womens rights... their is a limit...

ur_yusra
20-09-05, 05:28 PM
there ** anyway putting your grammar aside.. you do ask for it... I must say

Ebony
20-09-05, 05:31 PM
To divorce your partner over issues such as not picking clothes off the floor or forgetting to lock the door at night....is quite petty and demonstrates the complete lack of maturity required to make the relationship work.

:wacko:

Al-Irhaab
20-09-05, 05:37 PM
To divorce your partner over issues such as not picking clothes off the floor or forgetting to lock the door at night....is quite petty and demonstrates the complete lack of maturity required to make the relationship work.

:wacko:

who said that they wld do that...:scratch:

.: Anna :.
20-09-05, 05:51 PM
sis exactly if its an emergency then u leave but i mean if shes just bored then why break my word to 9 brothers and ruin their day... especially when u dont get a chance to get together anyway.... and yes if the bro gives no time to his wife then that is not allowed either she has her rights.... too many people on this forum are like what u call it tooo defensive of womens rights... their is a limit...yes... u cant focus on JUST the women's rights or just the mens. Marriage is all about compremising and working together. Treating each other the way u would like them to treat u, with respect consideration and doing ur duties towards each other and giving them ur rights.

ur_yusra
20-09-05, 05:59 PM
anna just one question... How much is al irhaab paying u?? http://ummah.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

.: Anna :.
20-09-05, 06:11 PM
nothing...
Its just that I am actually married unlike most of you lot, and so I have a more realistic view :p

abdusamad
20-09-05, 06:15 PM
Marriage is one area which i find alot of people misunderstand, and alway underestimate.


It is a big step because you inherit much more responsiblity as a muslim and as a husband/wife.


Marriage isnt also just some validation for having kids. There is companionship, friendship and much more involved.


ok i better stop but ya you get the message.


Allahu alim.

jimm
20-09-05, 11:21 PM
so i should ruin the plans of nine muslim practicing brothers who get together to do something which is not haram keep fit once a week because my wife cant wait 2 hrs for me to get back even though i wld spend most of my time with her... who is being unreasonable here?

the problem with too many marriages is that husband and wife think that life is just marriage life is not just marriage marriage is a big chunk of your life but so is your brothers the rest of your family your work your deen etc... your wife would never say to you oh dont go to work today spend some time with me... but something that 10 brothers have planned and enjoy each others companies for 2 hours and keep fit and do something not haram i should stop because she is feeling pretentious... you do that and see how happy your marriage is when you have no friends and no life...

treat your wife well treat your family well treat your brothers well is not hard to do each has their own time and space...

the question relates to who's relationship do you value more. Your wifes or your mates? So what if they miss 2 hour of footy. YOur making this footy game out to be a make or break situation. Carnt you not exercise another time, why dont your mates understand that you now have other commitments?

Now, as for who is being pretentious, i suggest you think about that.

Al-Irhaab
21-09-05, 12:18 AM
the question relates to who's relationship do you value more. Your wifes or your mates? So what if they miss 2 hour of footy. YOur making this footy game out to be a make or break situation. Carnt you not exercise another time, why dont your mates understand that you now have other commitments?

Now, as for who is being pretentious, i suggest you think about that.

the answer is that i wouldnt leave my brothers who i have known since childhood for my wife and nor would i leave my wife who would be the mother of my children for my brothers its as simple as that... if 9 brothers who have made plans and have trusted u to come down are let down because your wife is feeling like she needs attention then my wife should understand that that is more important then her impatience of waiting 2 hours... is not a make or break situation is that you dont destroy your relationship with your wife for your brothers and you dont destroy your relationship with your brothers for your wife... if for instance my wife said ok this date lets go to my parents place and i agreed and made plans with her and then brothers said lets go somewhere on that date id tell them no i made plans with my wife so no can do... some people need to stop being ranmarith and understand that their wives are not the be all and end all of life...

.: Anna :.
21-09-05, 06:40 AM
yeah... Go name change!!

like if u made plans with someone first : either wife or the bros, u dont change it without a good reason. Its called keeping ur word.

Baba agrees wiv u too bro!!

jimm
21-09-05, 10:45 AM
the answer is that i wouldnt leave my brothers who i have known since childhood for my wife and nor would i leave my wife who would be the mother of my children for my brothers its as simple as that... if 9 brothers who have made plans and have trusted u to come down are let down because your wife is feeling like she needs attention then my wife should understand that that is more important then her impatience of waiting 2 hours... is not a make or break situation is that you dont destroy your relationship with your wife for your brothers and you dont destroy your relationship with your brothers for your wife... if for instance my wife said ok this date lets go to my parents place and i agreed and made plans with her and then brothers said lets go somewhere on that date id tell them no i made plans with my wife so no can do... some people need to stop being ranmarith and understand that their wives are not the be all and end all of life...

Its relative, i have based my argument on the situation you have given. To dishonour your word is not what suggested or erred toward. I did however say, that the value of each relationship must be assessed when making choices of what to do.

I still however firmly hold to what i said about going out with your mates when your wife is bored. Here is a question, would you 'allow' your wife to go out and have fun while your out playing football?

As for the people who are insinuating that the wife is the be all, i suggest you read my posts and indicate where i have said it. I outline the fact when you enter into a relationship which holds the level of commitment that marriage does, that you show maturity in making choices on how to spend your time. This applies to both parties which enter into the relationship. It is unfortunate however, that preconcieved notions of inferiority still remain when thinking about 50 percent of the population.

Al-Irhaab
21-09-05, 12:22 PM
if i am playing football with my friends she is free to do whatever she likes as long as it does not put her in any perceived sense of danger... meaning we normally play at night so she naturally cant be walking streets at night... she wants to have friends of family around or go to friends and family thats her choice... but i assess the relationships and i find that all are equal i will not break one for the other... each has its time and place... and bro i specifically mentioned abt 10 times that the issue was of getting together with brothers and breaking your word to them by not turning up... but khayr... their is no inferiority apart from in the deen but ultimately wife is lower ranked in terms of decision making then the husband that is fact of islam... in the same way that mother has more respect from kids then father each has their place... islam is a complete balance between the extremes.... all you have to do is remember your place....

Al-Irhaab
21-09-05, 12:23 PM
yeah... Go name change!!

like if u made plans with someone first : either wife or the bros, u dont change it without a good reason. Its called keeping ur word.

Baba agrees wiv u too bro!!

i dont know who baba is sis but tell him jazakallah khere :D

*IslamicGirl*
21-09-05, 12:25 PM
:start:

:salams


i dont know who baba is sis but tell him jazakallah khere :D

It's Anna's Husband and Admin of this forum :)

:salams

Al-Irhaab
21-09-05, 12:27 PM
:start:

:salams



It's Anna's Husband and Admin of this forum :)

:salams

ahhh i see jazakallah khere... i thought her husbands name was muhammed.... :rotfl:


only joking before someone takes offense at a joke that werent even funny....

.: Anna :.
22-09-05, 07:48 AM
yeah Mohammed is real name, Baba is like his family nick name... its a Sri lankan thing :p