Which is more important to you ?

[~Stanley~]

Is any speck of land, worth more than the content of your soul?
Would you commit a possible sin in order to protect that which is under your feet ?

[Jam]

Is any speck of land, worth more than the content of your soul?
Would you commit a possible sin in order to protect that which is under your feet ?
No but if a stranger knocks on your door with a bulldozer outside and asks you to leave, because he'd like to knock down your family home and build a new house for himself, you wouldn't invite him in for a cup of tea and a choccy biscuit would you?

[Raven]

No but if a stranger knocks on your door with a bulldozer outside and asks you to leave, because he'd like to knock down your family home and build a new house for himself, you wouldn't invite him in for a cup of tea and a choccy biscuit would you?
Interesting. Another extension of that is "Would you kill the stranger's cousin's roommate's nephew & neice in revenge?"

Maybe, just maybe, the questions are a little whack.

[Jam]

Interesting. Another extension of that is "Would you kill the stranger's cousin's roommate's nephew & neice in revenge?".
Hey I don't know anything about killing. All I said was that the "occupier" is not getting any of my Hobnobs. :freedom:

[Raven]

What's a hobnob?

Ps. Do we at least agree that the question may not be valid?

[dhakiyya]

No but if a stranger knocks on your door with a bulldozer outside and asks you to leave, because he'd like to knock down your family home and build a new house for himself, you wouldn't invite him in for a cup of tea and a choccy biscuit would you?


This has happened to people I know........ the bulldozer turned up one morning whilst the kids were getting ready for school and gave them an hour to get out before their home was bulldozed. They got a tent from the red cross/crescent, but they are staying with neighbours for the sake of the childrens health (and because they have kind neighbours who didn't want to see the kids living in tents in the coldest part of the year) however their three year old son wakes up crying in the night because he wants to go home, but he can't go home because its been bulldozed. :crying:

And the same thing has happened to over 11,000 Palestinian households since 1967 according to the Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions.

So it's not exactly a far fetched question at all really :(

[Siddiqa]

Is any speck of land, worth more than the content of your soul?
Would you commit a possible sin in order to protect that which is under your feet ?
Does not God ask you to protect what belongs to you? Or are you of the view, that plunder is okay, whilst you sit by and watch... preserving the "contentment" of your soul?

Hell! Would there be contentment to begin with, in those circumstances!?

I know this... if you or anyone else, who feels the same way.. were in that position of being oppressed, you wouldn't be asking this question.

Tis be so easy to judge, no?

[Jam]

What's a hobnob?A chocolate biscuit.

And the same thing has happened to over 11,000 Palestinian households since 1967 according to the Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions.I would use the word "injustice" but it would be the understatment of the century.

[Reema]

Shouldnt this poll be in world events, i think its more relevant in there!

[sfvalley]

i think there needed to be more options:

Like wahts more important to you:

Playing a round at St Andrews or going to your wife's moms retirement dinner?

[~Stanley~]

Does not God ask you to protect what belongs to you? Or are you of the view, that plunder is okay, whilst you sit by and watch... preserving the "contentment" of your soul?

Hell! Would there be contentment to begin with, in those circumstances!?

I know this... if you or anyone else, who feels the same way.. were in that position of being oppressed, you wouldn't be asking this question.

Tis be so easy to judge, no?
Words of Fire, Deeds of Blood (http://theband.hiof.no/lyrics/words_of_fire_deeds_of_blood.html)

Perhaps you think the Creator sent you here to dispose of us as you see fit
If I thought you were sent by the creator
I might be induced to think you had a right to dispose of me
Do not misunderstand me
But understand me fully with reference to my affection for the land
I never said the land was mine to do with as I choose
The one who has a right to dispose of it is the one who has created it

I claim a right to live on my land
And accord you the privilege to return to yours
.........~........

[Chained_Water]

This has happened to people I know........ the bulldozer turned up one morning whilst the kids were getting ready for school and gave them an hour to get out before their home was bulldozed. They got a tent from the red cross/crescent, but they are staying with neighbours for the sake of the childrens health (and because they have kind neighbours who didn't want to see the kids living in tents in the coldest part of the year) however their three year old son wakes up crying in the night because he wants to go home, but he can't go home because its been bulldozed. :crying:

And the same thing has happened to over 11,000 Palestinian households since 1967 according to the Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions.

So it's not exactly a far fetched question at all really :(:crying:

[sfvalley]

Does not God ask you to protect what belongs to you? Or are you of the view, that plunder is okay, whilst you sit by and watch... preserving the "contentment" of your soul?

Hell! Would there be contentment to begin with, in those circumstances!?

I know this... if you or anyone else, who feels the same way.. were in that position of being oppressed, you wouldn't be asking this question.

Tis be so easy to judge, no?well, life does go on, we lost our lands and our country and my grandparents died in Siberia when the soviets came in and took lithuania over. My dad was of prime fighting age and very naturally a target for the russians. I guess he could have stayed and fought and some did for quite a few years. We made it to canada and then the USA. We did go back after the soviet union fell and we did have the right to make a claim on our family farm. But, what would be the point? We asked to visit and then we left. The people were worried that we would reclaim our rights but we assured them that was not our intention.


Siddiqa, all in all i am content. Of course, if my parents had moved to some socialist country like england or canada (actually stayed in canada) maybe i would not be.

[sfvalley]

but, i really would love to play a round at St. Andrews one day .............. hmmmm some day............................................... .............. some day.

[~Stanley~]

but, i really would love to play a round at St. Andrews one day .............. hmmmm some day
some day.
http://www.standrews.org.uk/

............http://www.playegolf.com/...............

[Siddiqa]

Siddiqa, all in all i am content. Of course, if my parents had moved to some socialist country like england or canada (actually stayed in canada) maybe i would not be.
I am not sure what your point is, maybe... MAYBE, it is that you are content you left and there is no point to fighting over land, yeah!?

Well.. its not about the land... its the principle of it all. You are being driven from you homeland, being fought and being oppressed... do you leave? Does that solve the real problems?

[sfvalley]

I am not sure what your point is, maybe... MAYBE, it is that you are content you left and there is no point to fighting over land, yeah!?

Well.. its not about the land... its the principle of it all. You are being driven from you homeland, being fought and being oppressed... do you leave? Does that solve the real problems?
i was not of fighting age so i did not face those questions, my dad had a good life and I , by the grace of God am having a good life. Was it bad that my family was driven out and our property was taken over? sure. Is there some principle of it all that would want me to take it back? none that i can think of. Some problems were solved, President Reagan solved a lot of the problems. Did he take care of my families specific problems (if you want to call it that)? no. Can i honor God in my life and obey him without my families land? certainly. again, life goes on and i consider myself to be truly blessed by the creator of this universe for what he has given me. In the end, it is all of his and i have no real claim on it.

[Siddiqa]

i was not of fighting age so i did not face those questions, my dad had a good life and I , by the grace of God am having a good life. Was it bad that my family was driven out and our property was taken over? sure.
Unfortunately, many do not end up in the same circumstances as yourself. Al-Hamdulilah, you have been blessed.


Is there some principle of it all that would want me to take it back? none that i can think of. Some problems were solved, President Reagan solved a lot of the problems. Did he take care of my families problems (if you want to call it that)? no. Can i honor God in my life and obey him without my families land? certainly. again, life goes on and i consider myself to be truly blessed by the creator of this universe.

Life does go on... but my original point, which I am not sure if it has been clear, is that, it is the principle of it all. Someone comes along and bullies you, do you just walk away, or do you fight back?

I am not judging your circumstance, per se. Don't intend for this to become a personalised arguement either. The principles I refer to, has to do with the original question in the polls. Just wanted to clear this up.

[Baby Paw]

Conduct.

[~Stanley~]

Life does go on... but my original point,..........
sfvalley, you expressed my original intent quite eloquently.

Siddiqa, you stated "Life does go on... but ...", but, it may not if one stands firmly and decides to fight for land which belongs to God alone and will remain long after the bully disappears from this world.

I understand the sentiments of the Palestinian people regarding the return of the Jewish people to the lands of their forefathers after many millennia of not living on the land.

You have spoken to sfvalley, as if sfvalley should return to the land of the forefather and reclaim it.
Is this not what the Jewish people are doing?

Surely, you must admit that the Temple Mount is built atop the ruins of an earlier Temple of Jewish origin.

So, the question is which came first, the chicken or the egg ?

[sfvalley]

sfvalley, you expressed my original intent quite eloquently.



i must have made some kind of mistake then.

[~Stanley~]

i must have made some kind of mistake then.
lol !

[Siddiqa]

Siddiqa, you stated "Life does go on... but ...", but, it may not if one stands firmly and decides to fight for land which belongs to God alone and will remain long after the bully disappears from this world.
I am not sure what you have tried to imply here. Is it, that it is futile to "stay and fight"!? That, life will NOT go on, if you choose to stay and fight!?




I understand the sentiments of the Palestinian people regarding the return of the Jewish people to the lands of their forefathers after many millennia of not living on the land.

The good ole' can of worms thing goin on here, eh! ;)

Obviously, your underlining of a portion of the statement was for a reason. So, now it's okay to drive out others because, you were driven out at one point. Okay, so let me get your logic... Americans took over native american land, right!? So, is it justifiable for the "displaced" native americans to not only reclaim their land, but to drive out those innocents, who have nothing to do with the original conflict!?



You have spoken to sfvalley, as if sfvalley should return to the land of the forefather and reclaim it.
Is this not what the Jewish people are doing?

You misunderstand... and digress! It's quite simple really! I don't see what is so complicated. My original point, was... and still is, when one is oppressed or attacked... no matter what the reason be, the natural response is to fight back. And so, it should be! As in the case of land or property, you protect what belongs to you.



Surely, you must admit that the Temple Mount is built atop the ruins of an earlier Temple of Jewish origin.

So, according to you, its justifiable for the palestinians to be driven out!? I see you wavering between two extremes here, either don't fight back... be a total pacifist... "tree hugger" even, or attack and take up everything. Interesting really!



So, the question is which came first, the chicken or the egg ?



Stanley! Good ole' can of worms, man!
Good ole' can of worms! ;)

[Muslim Sista]

:shock: :eek: u don't know what hob nobs are?
What's a hobnob?

Ps. Do we at least agree that the question may not be valid?

[~Stanley~]

Stanley! Good ole' can of worms, man!
Good ole' can of worms! ;)No !

All matters of conflict may be settled through comprimise.
An example I once wrote is this:

I own land, with a a fence along one boundary, separating me from a nieghbor I dislike.
There is an apple tree growing alongside the fence and his children come and take all the fruit
which hangs over their side of the fence.
The fruit rightfully belongs to me, since it comes from my tree but, how should I resolve this conflict ?

I could,

cut off all the fruit producing branches which hang over the fence OR
Ask my nieghbor to assist in harvesting the fruit and giving him a portion
With regards to Native American lands, I am in full favor of the creation of an individual Nation/State.
My suggestion would be 50 miles on the western side of the Mississippi river,
stretching from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico. Allowing all residents the opportunity to remain,
under the government of the Native Tribal council.
Not only would this provide for growth and expansion of the region but,
traversing the 50 miles for commerce would bring in revenue for the tribes.


regarding the return of the Jewish people to the lands of their forefathers
Is it Religion or Race that separates the peoples of the Middle East ?
The obvious answer is found in all three religious texts,
we all come from the same original pair of human beings.

If we are all related by blood and we Worship the One True God alone,
what else is the differences that separate us ?

I'll tell you, ~ the apple tree along the fenceline !

[sfvalley]

if i had an apple tree that was near a property line and they were picking apples that were on their property and i gave one thought that they should not be picking apples on their property then i had better go get some counceling.

[~Stanley~]

if i had an apple tree that was near a property line and they were picking apples that were on their property and i gave one thought that they should not be picking apples on their property then i had better go get some counceling.

LOL ! but, in some quarters, this is the prevailing attitude. :(

Hatfields and McCoy's type stuff !
Not remembering why your family is fueding with the other family nearby.

[Siddiqa]

No !

All matters of conflict may be settled through comprimise.
An example I once wrote is this:

I own land, with a a fence along one boundary, separating me from a nieghbor I dislike.
There is an apple tree growing alongside the fence and his children come and take all the fruit
which hangs over their side of the fence.
The fruit rightfully belongs to me, since it comes from my tree but, how should I resolve this conflict ?

I could,



cut off all the fruit producing branches which hang over the fence OR
Ask my nieghbor to assist in harvesting the fruit and giving him a portion
With regards to Native American lands, I am in full favor of the creation of an individual Nation/State.
My suggestion would be 50 miles on the western side of the Mississippi river,
stretching from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico. Allowing all residents the opportunity to remain,
under the government of the Native Tribal council.
Not only would this provide for growth and expansion of the region but,
traversing the 50 miles for commerce would bring in revenue for the tribes.

Is it Religion or Race that separates the peoples of the Middle East ?
The obvious answer is found in all three religious texts,
we all come from the same original pair of human beings.

If we are all related by blood and we Worship the One True God alone,
what else is the differences that separate us ?

I'll tell you, ~ the apple tree along the fenceline !

You have got the new can of worms going. I won't even go there.

The original post was in polls, regarding personal opinions on what was more important, nationalism... I like to say defending what belongs to you ;), or being a total "tree hugger".

I expressed my view. End of story!

[~Stanley~]

You have got the new can of worms going. I won't even go there.
I expressed my view. End of story!
I expressed my view. End of story! :1peace:

[sfvalley]

You have got the new can of worms going. I won't even go there.

The original post was in polls, regarding personal opinions on what was more important, nationalism... I like to say defending what belongs to you ;), or being a total "tree hugger".

I expressed my view. End of story!
and what a great story it was!!!!!!!

[Siddiqa]

and what a great story it was!!!!!!!
Why... Thank you!
:D

[Mary Carol]

All matters of conflict may be settled through compromise.

Only after egos have been set aside for the common good.

[AbuSadiq]

Both choices are important, but the first is more important. Islam recognises humbleness, self respect and good interpersonal relationship.

[Ibrahim70]

Is any speck of land, worth more than the content of your soul?
Would you commit a possible sin in order to protect that which is under your feet ?

Is any speck of land, worth more than the content of your soul?

No. I would put Allah (swt) first in everything I do as I want my soul to be clean of sin.

Would you commit a possible sin in order to protect that which is under your feet?

No. I would put Allah (swt) first in everything I do as I want my soul to be clean of sin.

Islam is my life, my way of living. Allah (swt) the AlMighty made me, fashioned me, and made me the Man I am today. Would I upset Him by caring more about a tiny piece of land instead of him? No.