Question for elders about SHARIAH law and social problems [Archive] - Ummah.com

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UNITED COLOURS

01-12-04, 06:50 AM

SALAM

I am not sure how i am gonna start this but...

My dad is old and Diabetic (but he is not past it mashalla )
My father confides in his brother as his brother agrees with certain things which my dad has done in the past
E.g. beating my mother when she was home alone.
My mother was on the phone to my sister at the time and she was scared so she called the police.
This happened like 3 years ago .

My uncle is a convicted wife beater so naturally they understand each other
I think this is one main reason my dad confides in him. Because he’s the only person who sees it the way he does.

I have integrity and i always make it a point to condemn my dad for his actions .which he does not like.
As he likes people to make him feel special

My uncle has devised a scheme whereby he has won my fathers trust and my dad has told me when he dies he will give all control of his £1,400,000 Business to my uncle leaving my mother with nothing but the home we live in.

my uncle has manipulated my father to think that we, my family are trying to kill him and take his money.

And he has made my dad hate us by saying stuff like
"Love your family but leave them"

That I am not a proper Muslim, why do I have a beard .
A sentiment which my dad reiterated to me and it really hurt because he knows how my mother raised me. And he knows how I stick by my principles even though I don’t pray I have an Islamic lifestyle and I try to be a decent human being.
The day he said this i went up stairs and said "ok I am shaving it off " but then he came to the door and said "There only words" i was nearly crying and i said "how can you say that your my father" , he thought I was gonna shave my beard but i will never do this inshalla .

My dad has called me a creep meaning, i creep to people to gain my position but before this he was saying i was like his father(who was a great man). Which meant a lot to me .
His brother is creeping to him to gain his position

What’s funny is my uncle only started eating halal meat 4 years ago and when he was my age.
And he still has no beard.

Other methods he used to break the link from us was by saying things Like
i "people should not be driving nice cars while there dads driving a old banger " "there something wrong going on "(THE MERC AINT NO BANGER,its a classic)
and other details i cant mention.

My dad’s naive and his ego gets in the way if they say the right words they can get anything from him.

The other day my uncle told my dad to sort his Will out before he goes away.
I mean he put it right in my mothers face.

There are so many other things i could say

Its not fair we are not greedy people ,but i cant stand the thought of him owning everything we have worked for and my mother especially suffered for and him leaving my mother with nothing but 1 house. (i know the law will see other wise) This aint love its hate.

But mainly because of the way he has gone about it,this cant be right !!
I cant believe it and how he puts it in our face its like something out a Bollywood film

I did not talk to my dad for 21 years of my life and now i see why
i cant relate to them .i am not them and i could never come from them or understand them.I dont want to be a part of this family anymore ?? if i had a house i would leave him with the Creep and take my mother away with me .

I want to know what the elders on here think i should do??

What are my mothers rights when my dad passes away ?? i know she is first in the line and he wil be at the back somewhere .

How can I educate my father, hes not stupid but giving and kind??
He just cant see whats going on ??

Its so sad hes not dead yet and the scavengers have already come
Inshalla he lives a long time as we want to do bigger things than this
This is really affecting me he told me first a year ago ..

They think my dads already dead
I cant believe it i mean people act Islamic then they manipulate everything for there own gain

Please DO NOT TRY TO E-mail me

muslimPK

02-12-04, 08:59 AM

salam brother,

your problem is not worst at all as you are taking it .It is looking to me that most of the time you spent in the company of females(mother+sisters etc) that is why you are taking small things large enough(no offense intentded ).Brother I m happy that you are seeking an Islamic help. :)

First thing is that you are not neutral on this issue that is what you need.You are saying:-
. beating my mother when she was home alone.My mother was on the phone to my sister at the time and she was scared so she called the police.
This happened like 3 years ago .

You are taking side of your mother ..I accept you surely have integrity but since you believe that your father is wrong and your mother is always right so you will believe whatever she will told you...for example you are saying that she was alone. it means you were not present there and it is she who told you "i was scared so I called police"....Another thing i have got from your family background that males of your family are less strong like your uncle,your dad and you...To deal women is not an easy job.Men usually are not as tricky as women are.It is even mentioned by our nobel prophet that women will prevail men...you know women know 100 excuses(BTW i m also a female sister :D )...I have observed many such social issues as you have described...I know a woman is more religious and more innocent than man in normal situations...but if situations are not normal and some disputes are there then a woman(usually with age more than 33) is very very shrewd..Her mind is excellent to (i)weave stories runtime (ii)invent excuses (iii)put arguments.(iv)flowing of tears from eyes like flood at any time when need..........she knew when to strike and where to strike.She will speak lie without leaving any trace.Actually she is excellent planner...I have noted start of a dispute is from a man but women will put this to extreme and She knows to mentally torture a man.Main Point I have noted from social quarrel is that a woman always keep even a very small event in memory...when she will be putting arguments before her husband she will be usually quoting from past events."you done this at that time and you done that at that time"..man will become so much tortured and weak with such explanations that he will just slap her and nothing else...woman will cry as loud as she can ....I mean if husband is a beater then it will be always a reason that why he was forced to do that....You don't know a woman plan at very distant in like above condition..man on otherhand will loose temprament very soon.

Please brother don't get me wrong I m not making you against your mother but i feel you are brainwashed what you are told you believed .Did you asked your mother what were the dialogues btw your father and mother before he beated. ??.Did you asked your mother why she called police or you were just believing in the tears of woman.I think calling police was too big insult of your dad...she could have taken help from your sister at phone...There must be someback ground or dialogues btw your father or mother before he beated.It was your duty to make a search for the truth and you need not to take only your mother side because your father is also respectable for you and you must be obediant to him "it takes two make a clap"..I believe your father will be more wrong than your mother but I cann't believe that your mother is not wrong at all.

What I have found that your father is alone.He needs a person to whom he could say that his wife and his children are disobedient.....

I did not talk to my dad for 21 years of my life

That was your mistake and that made you even away from your dad.You need to become friend of your father.He needs you.

What’s funny is my uncle only started eating halal meat 4 years ago and when he was my age.And he still has no beard.

No that is not funny at all ...it is looking your uncle has finally turned towards right way...It is matter only between Allah and your uncle..Some people offer prayer for whole life and there none of prayer accepted...There are many people who are not beard but still very good muslim.Problem is their class that is why they cann't afford to be beard..To me a girl who don't wear scarf but offering prayer sincerely is better than a girl who just wear scarf but don't offer prayers....Even I belive a person must be a practical muslim.

I mean why you try to shave beard when you were hurt because of right remarks of your father.You were shaving so that your father could not put remarks....Alternate way was that " instead of shaving" you could go in mosque to give a proof to your father that you have a beard and now you are offering a prayer..that was a right way to avoid from the pinching remarks of your father. :)

Its not fair we are not greedy people ,but i cant stand the thought of him owning everything we have worked for and my mother especially suffered for and him leaving my mother with nothing but 1 house. (i know the law will see other wise)

hmm you certainly an innocent and well educated and honest person...but from your post it looking like that yourwhole concern is in £1,400,000 indirectly(cos of your mom or sisters)... ...
Forgive me...you are a young man.life is mortal.Your father is giving you a house...why you are supposing that your dad will die first...who knows who will die first you or me....moreover you need not to worry about your mother..you need to tell your mother that mom don't worry I m here with you ...i can earn for you wealth..You need to tell your father that It is you who is imporatant for me not wealth...only to utter thing is not important but your every act must show that...you need to be sacrificing...you need to tell your mother."Oh mom your much of the life has passed and now why worry for rest of life.what will you do with wealth..wealth will not go with a person in the incoming life after death...it is deeds that will be helpful in next life...everything is mortal...YOu have a house you should sit and do Allah Allah.I will earn and serve you".

Bro,I didn't mean to take side of your father..i was honesly and sincerely helping you from the provided information..i know according to Islam for a son mother is most respectable and if a son spent all his life he cann't fulfill her rights...i don't want to become sinner by detracking you cos you are obedient to your mother....if you will do an disobediency i will be sinner.....Do you know for a woman who is most respectable..yes her husband...so you need to tell your mother indirectly that she needs to respect her husband even if he is not of good character...If it was possible Allah would order women to do prostration(sajda) before their husbands.....There is hadith where Hazrat Muhammad said thrice time that your mother has more rights over you and then he said forth time that your father has right over you.....

How can I educate my father, hes not stupid but giving and kind??

no you need to educate yourself,your mother and your sister...i guess your father may have been worst with you people..He may have been not characterful person...he may have given relief to your mother...But now he is old and you need to be tolerant and Allah likes those people who show tolerant,patience and forgive others...you need to tell your father that give everything to uncle but live with me ...you need to tell your father that ok you don't have mental understanding with my mother but you still are my father and i need to be obedient with you.

I think you need to be rather tactful instead of harming your nerves....you need to develop relationship with your uncle...you need to enjoy such qurrels :D ..you need to tell your uncle how your father and mother both have made your life miserable...you should go to him and say to him that i want to live in some hostel out of city......you actually need to quarrel with your mother and father at the same time in house..you need to make some excuse and then start quarrling with both...you should tell them that you will one day become mad because of you both people...you need actually some dramas...You need to tell your parents(when both are present before you) that you are not good parents.You should speak like a lawer and tell both of them that "mother you done this with me and you done this with me..you never give me relief..ok i accept that you have given me Islamic style but that was not sufficient...mother you have made me coward....you need to threat both of your parent that i will start doing this and that if I m not given relief in this home...i don't want a single dollar but I just want peace and mental relief...you will then shout and tell your mother that why you called police when father beaten you..now becaue of that even no boy is accepting my friendship..I feel shame...(actually this will make your father think that you finally are taking your father side)....I repeat that in heart you need to take side of your mother and tell her lonely that you are right...and when you will go before your father then tell him that although you were wrong a little but my mother must not have done this...you need to assure your father that you were following dictation of mother that is why i consider you wrong but you are also somewhat right.....

Actually you need to play some politics...Since I m unaware of many things so it is better to decide yourself what to do...it is not necessary to follow what i have suggested you in a kidding way in the last paragraph cos I don't know many things...I just was guessing from the provided information...and I also say sorry for any strict comment cos I was so honestly trying to help you out.

Last my advice you need to remember is that when a man spent most of time in females where he is recessive(when he is younger than those females) then this will make him coward and his power of thinking will be damaged generally..If he spent most of the time in females where he is dominent and can make those females to follow his decision...this will make him confident....
Better is not to listen women most of the time otherwise one will be in quarrels all the time :D
I mean a man should be man and should be least interested in women matters or routines...If he must have to listen then he should be careless and forgetful by nature. :)

good luck

an elder sister

BTW,I must say a sorry to other sisters in the forum who were feeling bad for putting a bad pic of women in the society under unfavourable circumstances. :D .

muslimPK

02-12-04, 09:24 AM

Brother you need to recite "ya Allaho Ya Rehmaano Ya raheemo" after asar prayer at least 100 times every day.For friday you need to recite above"yaa allaho Yaa Rehmaano yaa Raheemo" from asar prayer upto maghrib prayer(it will be at least one and half hour).Do this for 21 days.inshallah your father will return to you and you will return to him.This will help inshallah...

and last thing brohter start offering prayer...if you are a lazy enough then you can leave nafal namaz...even to take a start you should not go in mosque and offer prayer in home..once you will become habitual then go in mosque(inshallah your heart will get ready after 3 or 4 month)..There are 17 rakat in isha prayer but you can leave first four and other four nafal.(at least to take a start)...i remeber I was scared of praying and I also taken start like that...i still don't offer fajjar prayer regularly but still i feel good cos of other four prayer...You will feel very peace in your heart when you will offer prayer even short(some people even offer fard namaz cos it will take only two or three min)...At least take a start even small like me. :)

salam

Al-Nasser

02-12-04, 09:30 AM

tell your father that prophet Muhammed (pbuh) said that the noble men never beat their wives.

muslimPK

02-12-04, 09:34 AM

"tell your father that prophet Muhammed (pbuh) said that the noble men never beat their wives."

yes very true as i said earlier that only weak and coward beat their wives...but you need not tell your father that directly as advised by Al-Nassar brother.Rather you can tell your father in humble and indirect ways :D

ponderingstar

02-12-04, 09:59 AM

dear brother,

I am afraid their are not many "elders" on this website, and the advice you are getting is from everyday muslims. The matter you are conveying is a very difficult one. I think your father beating your mother is terrible and hope your mother has lots of happiness in her future. But i also must add that i think you should not stay with a man for his money, i think many women may make this mistake, but if your mother spent such a long time in fear and unhappiness, i understand and feel for her.

Why did you not talk to your father for so long?

This is a difficult situation. If you did not talk to your father for so long you are in a difficult situation to talk to him now.

I hope someone can give you good advice here, but i do not think it is going to be easy. I think praying would be very good. Pray with your all your heart.

May Allah bless you and your family wisdom and ease. Ameen

amal

02-12-04, 05:53 PM

You should talk with your mom first. See what she needs, if she wants you to involve in their quarells.

UNITED COLOURS

02-12-04, 10:43 PM

MUSLIMPK

I don’t think you have to be biased to think that’s its wrong to beat a woman
My dad has a history of beating my mother.he was not to bad. But as a child I remember how it affected my brothers and sisters and my mother. (Those beatings were encourages by the Uncle Creep as well, he used to go to there home and then come home and beat up on my mum)
MY father’s family has so much control over him

He did not Hit my mother for a long time until three years ago.when he lost it while my mum was on the phone it always seems to happen when no one is around to protect her.this is one reason why I always make sure if IM not living at home someone else is.

I think you guys think we are a jerry springer type family but we are not, my sister is very successful (a doctor to be) and so Is my brother.
My sister is very Islamic and is very active on campus.

The last time my father hit my mother we were out and my mum called my Bo and me
I cant hit my father but my little brother went mad and he kicked the chair my dad was on and my dad got scared (one reason why he feels we are trying to kill him maybe but my brother never hit him) my father was scared which is why he uses uncle creep for protection (as he is a strong man) he has even threatened us with violence from him.

I took another approach and I said to my father you loved your mother allot how would you feel if you saw her being beaten. ? And some other stuff I think it made him thinks.

I don’t spend to much time with my mother, I try to see things from both sides but I just cant understand him maybe you can MuslimPK you seem to suggest its ok.i don’t think it is both on a moral and Islamic basis. If my mother is wrong I tell her, if my father is wrong I tell him. This is I believe how you develop a family to be a group of better people.

My mother has not waved a story as you put it; I have seen these things with my own eyes. And you seem to think I am stupid. Well IM not.

I think your right about how woman manipulated people
But I am not brainwashed; I have seen things from both sides.
I cant believe you are saying it was an insult for my mother to call the police .no one was in the house to protect her.You sound Like a proper freshy Wife Beater man. I think you are only a Paki man would say these things.
What could my sister do while on the phone? Think about what you’re saying she was like 4 hours away

“What I have found that your father is alone. He needs a person to whom he could say that his wife and his children are disobedient”

Man how can you make these judgements you sound like a wife beater too .maybe he is alone its his fault I talked to him yesterday and I told him a few things.
I said you need to be sincere he always plays games, and listen but kept talking over me like oh son oh son
We are not disobedient we all are at Uni. None of us have had unislamic relationships we don’t smoke drink
We all do good degrees at Uni. .

I talk to my father now, but I cant be his friend he will not change he’s always gonna be a like this

I agree about what you said about not having a beard. huh I never shaved my beard brother (I know you are stop pretending this ain’t American desi) (wait why are you pretending to be a girl…. Oh i see)

I never shaved my beard since I have had the ability to grow it and inshalla I never will

Brother yes I do care about the business COs it represents a lot of things, who my dad trusts, who he loves, who he wants to allow to live in poverty once he s gone. My mother should be first in line not someone who has turned his family against him so he can make a Million.

I cant allow this to happen I have seen my dad used by so many people before and he don’t learn that people are using him .he is a good man he has his faults.

We will support our mother but its not fair if my father does this .if my father does not love my mother then they should divorce. She is not his slave. He does not provide for her.

Brother we know money is not everything but the main point is someone is turning my father against his family in front of us to make money .it’s a joke please understand

My mother is the best Human being I have seen in my life she has stuck with my father through so many things and loved him. She is a great mother and the best wife a man could have, if Allah gives me a wife half as good as her I will be a very happy man.

No you need to educate yourself, your mother and your sister...My mother and sister are very Islamic .I am not as knowledgeable they are not ignorant they have tried to change him he has changed a lot but needs to more

I had a relationship with my uncle and he used me to hurt my father
And now he is using me to make my father hate me.
I thought my uncle changed and became sincere and honest but he is still the same.

MAN I AINT NO COWARD I HAVE HAD MORE STREET FIGHTS IN 1 MONTH THAN YOU HAVE HAD IN YOUR WHOLE LIFE
MAN IF YOU SAW ME YOU WOULD BE SURPREISED,

MY FAMILY RESPECTS MY THOUGHT AND OPINIONS AND MY MOTHER DOES NOT RULE THE HOUSE.SHE LISTENS TO ME AND I RESPECT HER BACK

Brother you need to recite "ya Allaho Ya Rehmaano Ya raheemo" after asar prayer at least 100 times every day.For friday you need to recite above"yaa allaho Yaa Rehmaano yaa Raheemo" from asar prayer upto maghrib prayer(it will be at least one and half hour).Do this for 21 days.inshallah your father will return to you and you will return to him.This will help inshallah...

THIS is good advice, and the paragraph below

Thank you brother this is good

The rest is not, it has no Islamic authority its just judgmental and stop pretending to be a girl you little freshly player wannabe .you been watching to much "satellite"

AL-Nasser

This is good advice thank you brother

PONDERINGSTAR

My Father has not hit my mother for a while (since we all sat down and talked)
When my brother kicked the sofa my dad was on we all sat down talked ,my dad got the message I think

My mother is not with my dad for his money please don’t say this is a terrible thing to say
My mother loves my father very much and cares for him very much ,she even started doing a 9-5 when my father was going through hard times, as well as looking after us ,and him and my dads business

I did not talk to my father property for so long because I hated him .
I saw how he treated my mother as a child
How he turned to his family to hype him up before he beat up on her
How he lied to me and let me down as a child
There are many reasons

I talked to him again, but I am very angry with him(I know anger is wrong)
He needs to wake up

Thanks pondering star

BulldozerGirl

02-12-04, 11:02 PM

Salam UNITED COLOURS.

I'm sorry to hear of the issues you are facing at the moment. Insha-Allah everything turns out to be well.

I think muslimPK is female, and she's not a "brother" :) I'm sorry to say, but I also disagree with what she suggested. Wife-beating should never be encouraged, and discourse is recommended. I doubt that you can make a judgment of whether or not UNITED COLOURS' mother was lying about being beaten, or that she's really a disobedient wife. It seems that the family have been struggling with some issues for a while.

I am not really aware of how laws are applied in the UK (I assume you are in the UK?), but if you are a Muslim family, shouldn't the inheritance be given the Islamic way? Your father has no right in writing a will for all his fortune to be given to his brother. It should be given to his wife and children, according to the percentages in the Quran, and he may write a will if he wishes, to leave an amount to anyone else. But the total amount in the will should not exceed 1/3 of his total fortune (maximum). Therefore what your father is planning to do is legally unacceptable in Islamic shariah (at least to my limited knowledge). Although in a non-Islamic country, you can't do much about that.

muslimPK

03-12-04, 06:01 AM

Brother United Color ,

that was my mistake to reply,I regret.:(
I believe I never encouraged wife beating.rather I said take your mother side cos your father will be more wrong than her....

I m sure you are hatefilled(u never talked ur father even your mom was having love and stuck with your father inspite of his misbehaviour),quarrelsome(u said I have fights in streets) and angry man.Once I advised to my friend that save yourself from angry people because those people follow their temper instead of mind.They are never cool minded.They don't have ability to tolerate.They are rather little abnormal...my friend said she will remember my advice.:D

Brother I doubt and I fear that you are photosate of your dad cos you said I m used by my uncle...this is proof what i said you follow your hot temper and hence have small ability to think...
Now I have found your family(mother+sisters) all are very nice people:D it is only you who is pugnacious that is why they are some afraid of you and follow you.

PLZ PLZ COOL BRO YOU INCITED ME SO I WROTE ABOVE SPICY PARAGRAPH OTHERWISE I TOLERATE PEOPLE.
Bhai plz mujhe mooaaf kar deen .galti se ooper wala paragraph lick diyaa hai.insaan khata ka pootla hota hai...acha ab mujhe kuch naa kehna.Allah mian gee mujhee bachaao ab phir meri shaamat aay gi..I will delete this account inshallah and will never enter again in social and cultural forum.

O'ppl that was my last mistake to reply at this thread.
:D :D :D

Final request forgive your dad and say your mother to forgive him whatever he has done with you people...I see your father is alone and all of your family(that is nice family) is on one side .I agree your dad will not be changed but with time he will be physically weak and will be unable to beat your mother.:)

UNITED COLOURS

03-12-04, 08:39 AM

BROTHER
MUSLIMPK
(please stop pretending to be a girl this is a very very very sad thing to do )
(Why are you pretending so you can meet girls ,alot of people in the u.k use islam as a way to meet girls but you have taken it to another level...do the decent thing)

Brother i did have alot of hate for him for a number of reasons what i saw and what people like uncle creep told me.

Ok i dont like fighting ,i have not had a street fight for a number of years but i used to fight alot .when i was a teenager
the reason is not because i am a trouble make ,the reason is i stand up for my rights as a muslim
i remember i was in LONDON once sitting in A fast food place and this skin head came up to me with his 5 boyz and said

"alright mate ...had a nice night"
i said " yea it was ok "
he said " well then get the F#uck of this seat"

I got up then i started going mad so i picked up a chair and went after him
i said "who the fu#ck do you think you are talking too"
and he got scared even though he had 5 people with him
he said " sit down before you hurt your self"
"i said im gonna hurt you"

the point is muslims let people walk over them and now that skinhead will think twice about messing with us.If people in society think you are week they will attack you .
there is a war on islam at the moment so lets not talk peace ,peace and diplomacy have gone out the window.

i am quite cool headed but certain things like the above make me crazy i cant take people walking over me.

Brother I doubt and I fear that you are photosate of your dad cos you said I m used by my uncle...this is proof what i said you follow your hot temper and hence have small ability to think...

my uncle and i was close when i was 12 and he stabbed me in the back because he was angry because my dad was not there when he beat someone up.

My sister and mother are not afraid of me ,they have alot of respect for me and i for them.
my mum tells me these things, that i am a good son .i care for her when shes sick and she means alot to me .she is going on Hajj and i always said Mother i want to be there to protect you when you go ,becuase i know pople die while doing hajj (i have an aunt who died there) .
so my mother knows i love her and care this is not the case .we are a ver close family.we are all responsable for each other.i dont know any brothers like me and mine .i have shaped my little bro alot as this is my duty.

Final request forgive your dad and say your mother to forgive him whatever he has done with you people...I see your father is alone and all of your family(that is nice family) is on one side .I agree your dad will not be changed but with time he will be physically weak and will be unable to beat your mother.

ok brother this is good what you said .i will try .he will never hit her again inshallah.

UNITED COLOURS

03-12-04, 08:44 AM