Sura 66 At-Tahrim

[surfinjo]

I have been studying Islam for a couple of years now. I try to concentrate on sources created by Muslims as non-Muslims seem to be so cynical.

Recently, Sura 66 was brought to my attention, admittedly by a non Muslim.

I was advised that this gives Muslim men the right to lie (tell a falsehood) to their wife to restore peace to their relationship.

I have read this Sura in the Holy Quran.

In search for clarification I have done a number of searches. So far, the only references I have found are from non-Muslims.

May I impose upon the members of this site to give their views on the implications of this Sura?

If I may, I have 9 questions of specific interest.

1. Is a man indeed permitted to lie to his wife?

2. What is the scope of such lies, specifically, can he say anything which he believes will bring peace?

3. Are there any situations when a man may not lie to his wife?

4. Is a man permitted to lie to other women, to bring peace?

5. Is a Muslim man permitted to lie to other Muslim men to bring peace?

6. Is a Muslim man permitted to lie to non-Muslim men to bring peace?

7. If a man and woman have been introduced for the purposes of mariage is the man permitted to lie to the woman to convnce her that he will be a suitable husband?

8. Can a man lie to his wife to convince her that he is a better, or more capable person than he really is?

9. Can a man lie to avoid penality for any transgression?

[Ehsanparham]

Sorry, you're mistaken. Just read the whole Sura 66 and no such thing exists.

I'm not saying the whole thing is untrue, but it's not in Sura 66 at least.

Says a lot about your friend IMO. Is he a missionary by any chance? ;)

[Tahiyah]

Sufwas ibn Salim has related to us that the Holy Prophet (saw) was once asked if a Muslim could be a coward and he answered: It is possible. He was then asked if a Muslim could be a miser and he answered: It is possible. Afterwards he was asked if a Muslim could be a liar and he answered: NO! A Muslim cannot be a liar. (Bukhari, Muslim)

"...Give up the filth of idols and stop lying." (22:30) ~ Holy Qu'ran
"...Allah's curse will be on him if he is a liar." (24:7) ~ Holy Qu'ran


I am unsure about surah 66 stating anything about lying for the sake of keeping peace??

however, i am sure that if you tell a little white lie about your wife's cooking tasting great (when it really didnt) and that she looks beautiful (shes looked better) for the sake of keeping her pleased and happy with you, isnt really that big of a deal? and that should keep peace as well. coming home and complaining about the food, the house and her looks isn't exactly going to keep peace, especially if she's worked hard all day. compliments do go a long way with women and help them get through the day.

just my advice and opinion.

[ZawjatuRaafi]

While I am of the opinion of what tahiyah has posted no man should lie to his wife, if something may hurt her he should one look to his reasonings as to what he is lying about and make sure his intentions and actions were correct (cause to me if you have something to hide or lie about you should not have been doing it in the first place), and two come to his wife with the proper hikmah (wisdom) on how to handle whatever the situation may be and try to resolve it through honesty only.

I have although heard imams say that it is permissable to lie to your wife who is say 8 months pregnant for example if she says something like "honey I feel so fat am i too big???? he may then say sweetheart you look beautiful to me" even when in reality she does look like she has gained far too many pounds... This sort of thing from my understanding is permissable, because you do not want to in anyway make your wife feel badly about herself, or be cruel to her.

But if it is for things that will impact their or her life in any way there should be no lying involved. What would be best is to always be honest about your situations while using the wisdom to come forward in the very best of manners and continue to strive to keep peace in your marriage. If it is because of something you have done then fess up, and seek repentance and strive to never go back to doing whatever that thing was.

Ok I am on cold meds and I know it is affecting me cause YET AGAIN I am rambling...So i am off

[craig]

Could surfinjo be refering to these?
" Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful." Surah 5:89

"Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness (vain) in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing." Surah 2:225

"Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty." Surah 16: 106



Stay Blessed

[Stanley Stunodd]

I have been studying Islam for a couple of years now. I try to concentrate on sources created by Muslims as non-Muslims seem to be so cynical.

Recently, Sura 66 was brought to my attention, admittedly by a non Muslim.

I was advised that this gives Muslim men the right to lie (tell a falsehood) to their wife to restore peace to their relationship.

I have read this Sura in the Holy Quran.

In search for clarification I have done a number of searches. So far, the only references I have found are from non-Muslims.

May I impose upon the members of this site to give their views on the implications of this Sura?

If I may, I have 9 questions of specific interest.

1. Is a man indeed permitted to lie to his wife?

2. What is the scope of such lies, specifically, can he say anything which he believes will bring peace?

3. Are there any situations when a man may not lie to his wife?

4. Is a man permitted to lie to other women, to bring peace?

5. Is a Muslim man permitted to lie to other Muslim men to bring peace?

6. Is a Muslim man permitted to lie to non-Muslim men to bring peace?

7. If a man and woman have been introduced for the purposes of mariage is the man permitted to lie to the woman to convnce her that he will be a suitable husband?

8. Can a man lie to his wife to convince her that he is a better, or more capable person than he really is?

9. Can a man lie to avoid penality for any transgression?
:banghead: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rofl1: :rotfl: :rofl1: :vomit: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You just described the perfect used car salesman ! :rotfl:

[surfinjo]

Firstly, I would like to repeat that I don't normally pay any heed to non-Muslims when searching for information on Islam. (It didn't come from a missionary incidently).

This particular piece however seemed well researched, so, rather than take it at face value, I decided to ask people who would know.

I confess, that the implications of this did seem to be rather outrageous. I'm pleased that what was suggested to me was wrong, though not particularly surprised!

One of the things I was particular facinated about was how any man can lie to his wife. I can never manage to lie to mine!

I beg you to accept that there was no malicious intent on my part in asking this question. I have the deepest respect for Islam.

One of the most important things I have realised so far is that, while Islam is based upon such comprehensive writings, different communities have different characters. One, which I know reasonably well for example, is in an African country where 30% of the population is Muslim. They are very defensive and withdrawn, which I suppose may be understandable if somewhat regrettable.

I do thank evenryone who has contributed to this thread so far.

Purely for the sake of interest, this is the site where much of the information I had came from.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Tafsir/066.html

This is but one page in a large site.

I shall move the bookmark out of my Islam file and into my humour file!

[Stanley Stunodd]

I shall move the bookmark out of my Islam file and into my humour file!:banghead: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rofl1: :rotfl: :rofl1: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I am not a Muslim, so naturally my opinion doesn't count on these matters but, my question has always been, why does anyone on earth need a book to tell them what is right and what is wrong?


Can the statement p = ~p ever be true?
Can two religious systems whose teacings are in direct conflict both be correct?
The truth is out there.
These religious texts are presented for your exploration, in the hope that you will find it.
http://davidwiley.com/religion.html

This site is designed to advance research in matters of religion.
http://religion.rutgers.edu/vri/index.html
We offer this free service in hope that you will come here again & again


http://www.thetruelight.net/worldreligions.htm
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/christian-history.html
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

So much fertile soil and yet, it bares so little fruit !

[Stanley Stunodd]

Stay Blessed
4. EVIL, SIN, AND INIQUITY
http://www.ubook.org/cgi-bin/mfs/29/home/urantia/webdocs/upapers/ubpaper148.html?106#mfs (http://www.ubook.org/cgi-bin/mfs/29/home/urantia/webdocs/upapers/ubpaper148.html?106#mfs)

Never forget these laws of relation to the Father's will:


"Evil is the unconscious or unintended transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Evil is likewise the measure of the imperfectness of obedience to the Father's will.

"Sin is the conscious, knowing, and deliberate transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Sin is the measure of unwillingness to be divinely led and spiritually directed.

"Iniquity is the willful, determined, and persistent transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Iniquity is the measure of the continued rejection of the Father's loving plan of personality survival and the Sons' merciful ministry of salvation.

Stay Blessed

[jamila]

Peace to you, Surfinjo,

Perhaps it is the article about lying/taqiyyah by Al-Araby (the self proclaimed apostate/murtadd) that you are talking about. His conclusions are very hard, basically telling any non-Muslim never to believe what a Muslim says with his lips because what is in his heart is what counts.

He writes it in such a way as to suggest that a Muslim will nearly always say sugary words while housing evil intent against you (the non-Muslim). However, taqiyyah is not meant to be an aggressive tool of deception, but a final recourse of self protection in war.

Here is the text of one fatwa from Islam Q&A

Telling Lies

Praise be to Allah.

The basic principle concerning telling lies is that it is one of the signs of the hypocrites, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The signs of the hypocrite are three: when he speaks, he lies, when he makes a promise he breaks it, and when he is entrusted with something he breaks that trust.” Narrated by al-Bukhari, 32; Muslim, 89.

But there are some instances in which Islam permits lying, if that serves a greater purpose or wards off a greater harm:

These cases include the following:

1 - When a person is intermediating in order to bring about reconciliation between two disputing parties.

2 - When a man speaks to his wife, or a wife to her husband, concerning matters that will increase the love between them.

3 - War (Taqiyyah).

It was narrated from Umm Kulthoom bint ‘Uqbah that she heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “He is not a liar who brings about reconciliation among people, conveys good words and says good things.”

Narrated by al-Bukhari, 2546; Muslim, 2605

It was narrated that Asma’ bint Yazeed said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Lies are not appropriate except in three cases: when a man speaks to his wife to please her, telling lies at times of war, and lying in order to bring about reconciliation between people.”

Shaykh al-Albaani said: it is hasan.

And Allah knows best.

Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com (http://www.islam-qa.com/))


And here is the url for another fatwa from the same source under the title of The importance of Truthfulness (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=2424&dgn=4)

Al Araby, in coming to his conclusions, actually explains the concept of taqiyyah relying mostly on the extreme Shi'ite doctrine concerning it. This site (http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/Shia/sunni_vs_shia.htm) helps to distinguish between mainstream and extreme Islam in many notions including taqiyyah, described therein as
presenting an outer appearance that belies what one conceals inside, to protect oneself from harm. It is considered impermissible for a Muslim to deceive other Muslims, because of the Prophet's saying: "Whoever deceives is not of us." Resorting to taqiyyah is permitted only in one situation: during war against the disbelievers who are the enemies of Islam. That is part of the etiquette of war. It is incumbent on the Muslim to be truthful and courageous in upholding the truth, and to be neither ostentatious, nor deceiving, nor treacherous. He should give sincere counsel, enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil.

[Stanley Stunodd]

It was narrated that Asma’ bint Yazeed said:
The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:
“Lies are not appropriate except in three cases:
when a man speaks to his wife to please her,
telling lies at times of war,
and lying in order to bring about reconciliation between people.”
...~...
And here is the url for another fatwa from the same source under the title of The importance of Truthfulness (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=2424&dgn=4)


when a man speaks to his wife to please her,
Isn't this approving of a falsified love pact? Love, based upon lies is not Love.

telling lies at times of war,
Lying to thwart your enemy or evade cature is a valid response during times of war.

and lying in order to bring about reconciliation between people.”
This one sent off alarm bells !
Perhaps the combination of the second and third statements are the reason
Peace has never found a home in the Middle East?
If one holds these statements as truths, no amount of Diplomacy will ever succeed.

Who is willing to die for this monument of God's creation?
http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg (http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg)

[jamila]

when a man speaks to his wife to please her,
Isn't this approving of a falsified love pact? Love, based upon lies is not Love.
See Zawjatu Raafi's post on white lies.


telling lies at times of war,
Lying to thwart your enemy or evade cature is a valid response during times of war.Tactics of Mistake (http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/tacticsmistake.html)


and lying in order to bring about reconciliation between people.”
This one sent off alarm bells !
Perhaps the combination of the second and third statements are the reason
Peace has never found a home in the Middle East?
If one holds these statements as truths, no amount of Diplomacy will ever succeed. Why combine them? They are different fields. Saying that A said a good thing about B (when he didn't) to B, and saying that B said a good thing abou A (When he didn't) to A when each are angry with the other, thus bringing about reconciliation, is the opposite to what Surat al Falaq condems, [Saying that A said a badd thing about B (when he didn't) to B, and saying that B said a badd thing abou A (When he didn't) to A when each were on good terms with each other, thus bringing about dissension]. This is what is referred to in the third category of permissible lying in this hadith.
Who is willing to die for this monument of God's creation?
http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg (http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg)Not sure what you mean to say, shukrallah!

[Stanley Stunodd]

See Zawjatu Raafi's post on white lies.
Tactics of Mistake (http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/tacticsmistake.html)
Why combine them? They are different fields.
Who is willing to die for this monument of God's creation?
http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg (http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg) Not sure what you mean to say, shukrallah!
Did God invent, then permit the use of :white lies. ?

You list three reasons, then say, "They are different fields".
If each of those reasons can be turned into a wrongful action, through the use of the little white lies , who gets to decide when the line has been crossed?

white lies , black lies, they are both lies !

These distinctions have come about through centuries of rote recital of religious texts,
life has simply gone out of Religion in general and yet, the world beckons for a champion!

A champion cannot rule by using the little white lie .
I say all this because some of you, take part in raising children.
Teaching a young child that the telling of a little white lie is proper behavior,
sets that child in search of that thin red line of which he is not suppose to cross.
I would regard that as leading the child down the road of temptations. imho


Almost forgot !
http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg (http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg)
Not sure what you mean to say, shukrallah!

Can you imagine any two men, fighting over who owns this?
http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg (http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg)

[jamila]

The limits are clear. The white lie is so that you do not offend the one you love over something where it is not necesssary to offend her (or him), but should never lead to deception. Where a lie would harm her (or him) or let harm come to her (or him), it is forbidden.

The lie to draw people together should have that intention and result. It should also reflect the underlying truth about the goodness between the people you are trying to reconcile. If it doesn't it is wrong, and impermissable.

Neither of these means ruling by deception, or gaining the upper hand by deception.

Tactics of Mistake are legitimate means in war.

The object of Taqiyyah is to get the advantage over the enemy. That is, deception is used to get the upper hand. This is a strategy of WAR. Not a means to bring people together.

Trangression of the bounds means transgression, pure and simple. i.e. wrong-doing and SIN. And is a punishable offense (in the hell-fire).

[Stanley Stunodd]

The limits are clear.
...~...
Tactics of Mistake are legitimate means in war.http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/tacticsmistake.html
..."he pays a high price in terms of friendship and of love. Yet, when the final battle comes,
Cletus must depend, absolutely, on those whose affections he has abused." ...

Sounds very romantic and gratifying !

Kinda like the old French Foreign Legion, except in space.

[jamila]

Almost forgot !
http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg (http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg)
Not sure what you mean to say, shukrallah!

Can you imagine any two men, fighting over who owns this?
http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg (http://www.ckfoto.com/IMAGES/Coyote%20Butte/Hamburger%20Hill.jpg) Well, I could imagine it, but would fail to understand it. What has this to do with lies, white, black or in between?

[abdulhakeem]

Confirmation of the 10 Commandments in the Qur'an (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198947&postcount=1)

[jamila]

http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/tacticsmistake.html
..."he pays a high price in terms of friendship and of love. Yet, when the final battle comes,
Cletus must depend, absolutely, on those whose affections he has abused." ...

Sounds very romantic and gratifying !

Kinda like the old French Foreign Legion, except in space.
Try 'the outposter' (http://www.sciencefictionandfantisy.com/viewbook_0671721402.asp), too. Both scenarios at the end of the respective set the hero on a self sacrificing road, willing to pay with their lives for the change they have forced on humanity by revealing their mistakes.

However, both are deceived in turn by those who love them to prevent them from making that self sacrifice (self imposed 'crucifixion' at the hands of those who 'do not understand').

[surfinjo]

One of the things I love about these forums is the way issues can be discussed rather than simply answered.

I think I'm beginning to understand this issue now.

As a Christian I treat lying as any other sin against my soul.

Muslims accept the need for a thoughtful white lie to help others.

This is interesting but I can see how children would need to have the difference between a white lie to help others and a lie for gain to be emphasised.

It doesn't really surprise me that Al-Araby is an apostate and it's good to have the writings put into context

[abdulhakeem]

Can he tell lies to his parents in order to increase their good deeds? (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=47564&dgn=4)

She told a lie against her husband; how can she set things straight? (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=52807&dgn=4)

It is not permissible to say that you were present at a lecture from which you were absent (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=52502&dgn=4)

Ruling on one who tells lies about the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=34725&dgn=4)

The importance of being truthful (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=2424&dgn=4)

He has the habit of swearing by Allaah whether he is telling the truth or not. How can he expiate for these oaths? (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=36734&dgn=4)

Do not betray the one who betrays you (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=40649&dgn=4)

He fasts and lies (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=37989&dgn=4)

Telling lies in order to get a visa to enter the US (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=11125&dgn=4)

Deceiving and lying are not permitted in dealings with others (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=9345&dgn=4)

April Fool (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=10834&dgn=4)

Lying to the government in order to receive assistance (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=7959&dgn=4)

Pretending to be a non-Muslim in an Islamic chat room (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=4576&dgn=4)

He made a false claim that his injury happened at work so that he could get compensation (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=3104&dgn=4)

Writing down the name of a person who is absent from work as if he is present (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=3108&dgn=4)

Bid'ah Hasanah ("Good Innovations") (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=864&dgn=4)

[jamila]

:up: Thanks AH.

:help: :eek2: Phew! talk about being swamped!

[Stanley Stunodd]

Telling lies in order to get a visa to enter the US (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=11125&dgn=4)
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?cs=prn&ln=eng&QR=11125&dgn=4&dgn=2

Why would anyone need consultation on such a question?
Can some people not distinguish between right & wrong without first consulting a book?

[surfinjo]

jamila

I understand your point.

But lying is something so many of us do almost without thinking.

My personal belief is that this should not be so.

Lying is a habit, and like all habits, once you've done it once, it becomes easier each time.

Lying destroys the soul.

I appreciate this may be a Christian concept, but to put it into more human terms, lying deceives those who know you into believing you are something that you are not.

And, Lying undermines who you are. The image others have of you is false, by your own doing. You know it because you know who you really are. So a liar has no friends really.

Sometimes we need to withold information, I believe that is a different matter.

[ZawjatuRaafi]

so surfinjo and stanleystunodd

lets use my simplistic example

Your wife is pregnant she has put on quite a bit of weight, she gets up from bed one morning standing in the mirror (extremely emotional all the time) and says honey I feel soooo fat, do you still find me pretty??? and looks to you with these hopeful eyes. Do you say heck no you are fat look at how much weight you have gained, look at your legs YOUR BIG!!!!

Or do you say honey you still look beautiful, and I love everything about you. Dont worry you will be fine you only have a few more months and you will feel so much better about yourself when it is all over with, but to me you look beautiful.

Which of the two would you truly say to your wife???

[ZawjatuRaafi]

forgot to add MY Husband would NEVER live it down if he insulted me in such a way...even if he was lying about something like that I would be glad he didnt want to just crush my feelings. Now on the flip side, if this is something that impacts my life I would be very bothered to know he was lying to me calling himself keeping the peace. Because this to me is not keeping the peace this is hiding your dirty laundry. There is a very big difference in this and I dont know how you cant see that.

[Stanley Stunodd]

so surfinjo and stanleystunodd

lets use my simplistic example

Your wife is pregnant she has put on quite a bit of weight, she gets up from bed one morning standing in the mirror (extremely emotional all the time) and says honey I feel soooo fat, do you still find me pretty??? and looks to you with these hopeful eyes. Do you say heck no you are fat look at how much weight you have gained, look at your legs YOUR BIG!!!!

Or do you say honey you still look beautiful, and I love everything about you. Dont worry you will be fine you only have a few more months and you will feel so much better about yourself when it is all over with, but to me you look beautiful.

Which of the two would you truly say to your wife???Your two comparisons are equally valid.
If my wife were fat with a child, she would be the most beautiful woman in my life, therefore saying "you still look beautiful, and I love everything about you." would not be a little white lie.
Same feelings would be exclaimed if she said "I feel soooo fat, do you still find me pretty??? "

Now, if the husband truly did not feel this way toward his wife,
one) he's superficial and shallow,
two) isn't deserving of his wife's love.

But, that's just me !

[abdulhakeem]

so surfinjo and stanleystunodd

lets use my simplistic example

Your wife is pregnant she has put on quite a bit of weight, she gets up from bed one morning standing in the mirror (extremely emotional all the time) and says honey I feel soooo fat, do you still find me pretty??? and looks to you with these hopeful eyes. Do you say heck no you are fat look at how much weight you have gained, look at your legs YOUR BIG!!!!

Or do you say honey you still look beautiful, and I love everything about you. Dont worry you will be fine you only have a few more months and you will feel so much better about yourself when it is all over with, but to me you look beautiful.

Which of the two would you truly say to your wife???first of all - pregnant women ain't ugly.

in fact they are blessed - have you ever noticed the shine in the eyes of a pregnant woman? if you haven't remember my words next time you see a pregnant woman.

there must be something in a woman's body that turns her eyes into brilliants when there is a kid in her womb

[ZawjatuRaafi]

well lets see as a mother of five yes I have seen it, but that does not mean all men find pregnant women beautiful especially when they have eaten more then they needed to be... Be it shallow or whatever else, maybe pregnancy really wasnt her best side.

As well it was simply an example of when such a statement would be made. I could come up with quite a few but I thought that was the safest of them all.

not all men would say as you are saying but I think you know that, its a good thing you feel that way, but if the case were that you did not you would HOPEFULLY not come right out and say yes dear you look very bad... this would be hurtful and would lessen the tie between your wife and yourself, therefore knowing it is only for a time Hopefully that your wife will look or feel this way you would say something that you didnt necessarily find harmful to say because of your love for your wife and concerns of her self esteem.

I actually know many sisters who come to me crying because their husbands have said they are too big, that they dont look as nice as they did when they married, that they have let themselves go because they are 10 pounds more then they were when they married. All said to them in ways that are hurtful. So with that said this has taken away from the levels of love and respect that the wife feels for her husband. As well her own self esteem. There is no good in this and brings about more harm then good so in this sort of situation if you do love your wife you would come up with ways to make her feel good about herself. Say joining a gym together, taking a nightly walk with her, a day of pampering, while always letting her know how beautiful a woman she is to you.

as a side note BROTHERS/MEN always remind your wife of how nice she looks to you it brings about a world of difference in her life to know he is still pleased with her...

[surfinjo]

zawjaturaafi

I understand your points completely.

Firstly, I have to agree with abdulhakeem, Pregnant women are not ugly. They are the ultimate manifestation of the glory of God's creation. He has created life inside a woman. The perfect being to raise such a helpless creature with the potential to save the world from its suffering. Compassionate, empathetic, nurturing. Would that I, a mere man be able contribute so much.

A few years ago, a young girl I know was growing up and bulging in the right places. As often happens, she wasn't growing completely evenly, but that would soon change.

She asked me if her bottom looked very big. It was wide to be sure. I told her that girl's bums were suppose to be big, that why we love them so much.

People who know me know that I, in common with other good Christians, am completely honest. They accept what I say as an honest statement and trust what I say to be the truth.

But it's important to choose your words. How you convey your truth is important.

I want to impress upon you that I am not trying to impose morality. Each of us makes our own peace with ourselves, with each other and with God.

I'm simply saying that by being true to others and true to myself, people know me for who I am and not any false image I may have conveyed.

So, they are my friends, not the friends of a ficticious character I've created.

[Ehsanparham]

Stanley,

It's quite arrogant to think that with your puny little peanut of a regular sized human brain can decide what's right and wrong in your whole life.

These books are written for you to know that, if you follow them 100%, then that's perfection. However, perfection can't be achieved, so you strive for your best. It's like the saying "Shoot for the stars, you'll land on the moon."

It's like wanting to drive to another country. Let's call this country "truth". Is the best way to get there going by what you THINK is right, or by having a map?

[Stanley Stunodd]

Stanley,

It's quite arrogant to think that with your puny little peanut of a regular sized human brain can decide what's right and wrong in your whole life.

These books are written for you to know that, if you follow them 100%, then that's perfection. However, perfection can't be achieved, so you strive for your best. It's like the saying "Shoot for the stars, you'll land on the moon."

It's like wanting to drive to another country. Let's call this country "truth". Is the best way to get there going by what you THINK is right, or by having a map?
If your Quran was the map I wouldn't have a problem with that so much, it's when you add into the mix, Muhammads life story and his commandments which get in the way of following a straight path toward God that I do not desire.

[Moayidd]

Sufwas ibn Salim has related to us that the Holy Prophet (saw) was once asked if a Muslim could be a coward and he answered: It is possible. He was then asked if a Muslim could be a miser and he answered: It is possible. Afterwards he was asked if a Muslim could be a liar and he answered: NO! A Muslim cannot be a liar. (Bukhari, Muslim)

"...Give up the filth of idols and stop lying." (22:30) ~ Holy Qu'ran
"...Allah's curse will be on him if he is a liar." (24:7) ~ Holy Qu'ran


I am unsure about surah 66 stating anything about lying for the sake of keeping peace??

however, i am sure that if you tell a little white lie about your wife's cooking tasting great (when it really didnt) and that she looks beautiful (shes looked better) for the sake of keeping her pleased and happy with you, isnt really that big of a deal? and that should keep peace as well. coming home and complaining about the food, the house and her looks isn't exactly going to keep peace, especially if she's worked hard all day. compliments do go a long way with women and help them get through the day.

just my advice and opinion.
Hi,
I beleive Prophet Mohamed (saaws) was asked those things of a Mo'men not a Moslem. I'll check again but I'm reasonably sure it was a Mo'men (true beleiver).

Peace,
Moayidd

[ponderingstar]

Your two comparisons are equally valid.
If my wife were fat with a child, she would be the most beautiful woman in my life, therefore saying "you still look beautiful, and I love everything about you." would not be a little white lie.
Same feelings would be exclaimed if she said "I feel soooo fat, do you still find me pretty??? "

Now, if the husband truly did not feel this way toward his wife,
one) he's superficial and shallow,
two) isn't deserving of his wife's love.

But, that's just me !yes, yes, everyone is beautiful yadda yadda, and the majoirty of pregnant women positively GLOW when they are expectant, but there will be times in a womans life when she isn't loking her best, (this can be straight after preganancy for some woemn when all their hormones drop and their hair falls out and they're depressed etc..) so when the woman is asking "do i look fat, or do i look ugly, or do i look nice, or does my bum look big in this" she doesn't always mean "am i the most beautiful woman in your life"

hence she didn't ask that question. so for you to answer that question as opposed to the intended question is being misleading in itself...

that's my opinion...

just like my motehr sometimes tells me i look tired, i know she loves me and is concerned, but REALLY i wouldn't be too keen for my husband to make the same comment... i mean i know he cares, but women can have fragile egos.

(oh and if she gets a haircut which just looks plain silly: don;t tell her that)