Re: The Islamic Beliefs on Jesus (peace be upon him)

[Stanley Stunodd]

Jesus, Son of Mary
The Islamic Beliefs on Jesus (peace be upon him)

Jesus (peace be on him) is a prophet and messenger of Allah sent to the Israelites
to invite them back to the path of submission and obedience to Allah.
He was born to virgin Mary (peace be on her) without a father.
His birth is similar to the creation of Adam, who had no father or mother.
Jesus spoke even when he was a baby and gave testimony to the Oneness of God.
He was neither crucified nor killed.
He was son of Mary, not son of God.
He was not God but a human being.
Believing in any one as God other than the one God,
the Almighty and the Creator, is an unforgivable sin.


I find this a bit curious !
The emboldened portions of the quote above seem to indicate
that Jesus was at least, A PORTION of GOD.
Since human beings all have a Mother and a Father, who was Jesus Father?

He was born to virgin Mary (peace be on her) without a father.
~
He was son of Mary, not son of God.

Did GOD perform the very first clone (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=clone) process in the creation of Jesus?

[Ehsanparham]

I find this a bit curious !
The emboldened portions of the quote above seem to indicate
that Jesus was at least, A PORTION of GOD.
Since human beings all have a Mother and a Father, who was Jesus Father?

Did GOD perform the very first clone (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=clone) process in the creation of Jesus?

From your name, I'm assuming you're Christian. I could be wrong OFCOURSE.

Assuming your Christian, you were raised to think that Jesus was - fully or partially - God. You were also given the knowledge that he had no father, which made it even more believable. Now that you have faith in these two things, it becomes interchangeable. It's very common in matters dealing with religion.

Now you're thinking SINCE he had no father, then he must've been, at least partially God. However, that's only because you believe he is partially or fully God ALREADY.

Now, since MUSLIMS don't believe that, then him having no father won't prove that he is what you say.

However, we agree on one thing: The fact that he has no father is an act of God. So he is, in some way, divinely inspired... Just as Moses was when he split the ocean, for example. However, performing miracles does not conclude that a person is God.

Think about this: Technology has created a way to allow a woman to give birth without a father "per se", but has it created the technology to split the Red Sea?

[Abdul-Hayy]

I find this a bit curious !
The emboldened portions of the quote above seem to indicate
that Jesus was at least, A PORTION of GOD.
Since human beings all have a Mother and a Father, who was Jesus Father


Just because Jesus(pbuh) was born without male intervention does not make him a part of God. If you analyse, Adam(pbuh) had no father or mother-he was greater to Jesus(pbuh) in this respect. King Melchisedec had no beginning, no end, he was even greater than Adam But do you consider Adam and King Melchisedec to be Gods?

[Stanley Stunodd]

Hello to both Ehsanparham & MEGADETH,

Actually my question centered more around this :
"Did GOD perform the very first clone (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=clone) process in the creation of Jesus?"

As I have studied the life and teachings of Jesus, his words always reflected back to "doing his Father's will".
He always prayed to "His Father in Heaven" so, this would indicate that HE himself did not consider himself to be GOD in the Flesh but, a SON of this Father in Heaven.

Regarding the legend of his having NO HUMAN FATHER being involved in his being brought forth into this world,
indicates to me that GOD somehow initiated the spark of life within the egg carried by Mary in her womb.
What purpose would this serve?
Either this process was used to infuse a portion of GOD and MAN together or the entire story is a false claim.

It has been stated that Jesus spoke even as a babe, when no other human child has this ability from birth.
If this were a proven fact, would it not have been a sign for the entire world to witness ?
Would not the Jewish religious Authorities of his day, recognized this as a miracle?
Wouldn't this claim of a babe speaking from birth, be something that the writers of the New Testament would have seized upon as even more proof of their claim? Yet, this is not written or promoted as such in the Christian religion.
Nor, is it mentioned in any writings of Jewish origin.

[Ehsanparham]

Stanley,

It would be impossible to know the exact details. All we know is that there is no father, and other religions would love to refute this, but the evidence was obviously strong enough for it to carry through centuries of believers and disbelievers alike...

As for the miracles, God blessed a lot of prophets with miracles, and personally I think it's to help show that they are prophets from God... I can just come out and say I'm a prophet, but you won't believe me until I (for example) split the Red Sea. I believe they're a way to help the prophets in the mission they were assigned to accomplish.

I've heard that Jesus spoke as a baby, but I don't know which religions refute this or which claim its true... but if it's no in the Bible and not in any Jewish wrtings, then where is the proof?

[craig]

Stanley,

It would be impossible to know the exact details. All we know is that there is no father, and other religions would love to refute this, but the evidence was obviously strong enough for it to carry through centuries of believers and disbelievers alike...

As for the miracles, God blessed a lot of prophets with miracles, and personally I think it's to help show that they are prophets from God... I can just come out and say I'm a prophet, but you won't believe me until I (for example) split the Red Sea. I believe they're a way to help the prophets in the mission they were assigned to accomplish.

I've heard that Jesus spoke as a baby, but I don't know which religions refute this or which claim its true... but if it's not in the Bible and not in any Jewish wrtings, then where is the proof? did you mean there was no proof Jesus spoke as a baby or that He didn't? about the miracles, its a wonder that those that God did perform these miracles were from the tribe of Isreal.

Stay Blessed

[Ali_Khan]

Since human beings all have a Mother and a Father, who was Jesus Father? Who was Adam's Father? Or Mother for that matter.

[craig]

Who was Adam's Father? Or Mother for that matter.
Chief, there were none...i know it sounds kinda rhetoric, but whats your point?

Stay Blessed

[Abdul-Hayy]

The question put forward by Stanley was that Jesus was God because he had no father?

[craig]

The question put forward by Stanley was that Jesus was God because he had no father? but adam was from dust, and dust would be his return....no?jesus was from?

Stay Blessed

[Abdul-Hayy]

According to the Quran, Jesus was made of dust as well.

[craig]

According to the Quran, Jesus was made of dust as well.
Not God saying 'Be' through the Holy Spirit entering Mary?

Stay Blessed

[Baby Paw]

So Craig what is the Holy Spirit?

[Ehsanparham]

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Al-Imran (The Family of Imran) - (Arabic) |
|
|
3:59 The similitude of jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust| then said to him: "Be". And he was. |
__________________________________________________ ______________________|

[Ehsanparham]

http://www.islamicity.com/Quransearch/arrowg.gif Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread) (http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/quran/5.htm#110)- (Arabic) (http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/ArabicScript/Ayat/5/5_110.htm)
(http://mediaserver.hadi.org:8080/ramgen/ra101/raw/ra101_5.rm?start=01:58:28.2&End=02:02:02.2&mode=compact)

5:110 Then will Allah say: "O jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity . Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

[Stanley Stunodd]

The question put forward by Stanley was that Jesus was God because he had no father?
Either you misunderstood my question or are merely twisting my words to discredit them for your own gain.

I said:
The emboldened portions of the quote above seem to indicate
that Jesus was at least, A PORTION of GOD.
Since human beings all have a Mother and a Father, who was Jesus Father?
~
Did GOD perform the very first clone (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=clone) process in the creation of Jesus?

[jamila]

Since human beings all have a Mother and a Father, who was Jesus Father?
Out of curiosity, who was Adam's mother? Oh yes, and who was his father?

Who was Eve's mother?

All very perplexing, don't you agree :)

[Stanley Stunodd]

[/size]
Out of curiosity, who was Adam's mother? Oh yes, and who was his father?

Who was Eve's mother?
All very perplexing, don't you agree :)
Yes, it is all very perplexing and indeed, so much so that who is to say what the real truth of the matter is?

'Hobbit' joins human family tree
Scientists have discovered a new and tiny species of human that lived in Indonesia at the same time our own ancestors were colonising the world.
The one-metre- (3ft) tall species - dubbed "the Hobbit" - lived on Flores Island until at least 12,000 years ago.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3948165.stm
http://freeinternetpress.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2222
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/news/items/2004/Oct/flores.html



Wild men and other monsters

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/madagascar/surviving/legends2.html
The wilderness has its own ghosts, which come in the form of kalonoro, the so-called "wild men of the woods." The belief is pervasive in and around the Marojejy Mountains, which we'll visit on this expedition (see The Mission (http://javascript<b></b>:OpenWin('http://64.4.56.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=dbb5d53adb3a49d2b52ca842ef94e9e8&lat=1100215334&hm___action=http%253a%252f%252fwww%252epbs%252eorg %252fwgbh%252fnova%252fmadagascar%252fexpedition%2 52fmission%252ehtml');)). Indeed, when I hiked in some hills near the Marojejy massif in 1996, my Betsimisaraka guide told me that wild men lived in the rocky hills and ate nothing but land crabs and fruit.

"Kalonoro are by far the most mysterious, frightening, and bizarre (hafahafa) of the Malagasy spirits," writes the anthropologist Lesley Sharp in The Possessed and Dispossessed (University of California Press, 1993). Small of stature, with eyes that glow like coals, long flowing beards, and feet that point backward, the kalonoro live deep in the forest, where they will occasionally appear at hunters' campfires.



In the 1889 Proceedings of the Royal Geographical Society, one L. H. Ransome recounts the time ten years before when a wild man was captured near the northeastern town of Maroantsetra:We were informed by a trader from Mauritius, a Mr. Carmes, who saw him, that ... [he] was caught by some Malagasy in the employ of a Manahar trader, while asleep on the branch of a tree, and when taken resisted violently, biting his captors severely; after a few days' confinement, however, he ceased to be aggressive. Mr. Carmes describes him as being a powerfully built man of about five feet nine inches in height, his face and body being thickly covered with long black hair; his mode of walking was peculiar, as he traveled very fast, with his head down, occasionally going on all-fours, his eyes (which resembled in expression those of an animal rather than of a human being) invariably being fixed on the ground. When caught he was perfectly nude, but wore clothes when provided with them. He could never be induced to eat flesh or any kind of cooked food, subsisting entirely on manioc and other roots; nor would he sleep in a recumbent position, but when resting preferred to squat on hands and feet on a stool in a corner of the house. After some weeks he commenced to learn a few words, and by means of these and signs it was understood that he had a father and two brothers in the forest where he was taken. These were found and surrounded by a search party one night, but being disturbed, easily eluded their pursuers, jumping from tree to tree like monkeys and running on all-fours. The captured man died five months after being taken.REF:

THE DAWN RACES OF EARLY MAN
1. THE EARLY LEMUR TYPES
http://www.ubook.org/upapers/ubpaper062.html

ADAM AND EVE
http://www.ubook.org/upapers/ubpaper074.html

[Abdul-Hayy]

You know what, I have a feeling that Stanley Stunood is "Prophet" Owl Mirror

[Fathom]

Something for you all to think about:

Adam and Eve didn't have belly buttons.

heh

[Ali_Khan]

lol good point fathom. did u also know that eve was the daughter of Adam?

Allah made a human with no father (Jesus pbuh), a human with no mother (Eve pbuh) and a human with neither no father nor mother (Adam).

[surfinjo]

MEGEDTH

You mentioned King Melchisedec in reply 1. Some Christians suggest he was an incarnation of Jesus.

Who does Islam believe him to have been?

[Abdul-Hayy]

king Melchisedec is not mentioned in the Quran

[surfinjo]

Thank you for the clarification MegaDeth.