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abdulhakeem
27-06-04, 03:17 PM
By Tom Segel (06/25/2004)

Living next to the Texas-Mexico border gives one a different view of life than is experienced by most Americans. On one side of the Rio Grande are millions of Mexicans willing to risk anything to cross that ribbon of muddy water. North of the riverbank is another population made up of citizens, legal residents and undocumented workers. Ethnically, 90% of this population is Hispanic.

If you remove the divisiveness of politics and ask people how they view themselves or those around them, most will say they are Americans. Many will say they are Texans. Few, if any, claim allegiance to Mexico or any Latin American country.

The culture here is also unique. From food to festivals we all call it Tex-Mex. The richest in culture, customs and traditions of both nations have been blended into a way of life, which might seem strange to some, but proves to be very rewarding for those of us who make our homes in the Rio Grande Valley.

Now view this cultural assimilation by both Hispanic and Anglo along the U.S. border with what exists in countries experiencing immigration by Muslims.

France has seen a large Muslim immigration, primarily from Algeria, Senegal and Mali. These people have never been totally accepted by the French citizenry. The Muslim population is estimated at 4 to 5 million in a country of 56 million people.

The country has seen an explosion of mosques, with numbers now in excess of 1,200. With a growing resentment toward the immigrants, these mosques increase the anxiety about Muslims felt by the French Christian community. The large number of young Muslims who claim no allegiance to France, but instead claim to be Islamists further heightens this anxiety.

France does have a radical_Muslim problem. This militant version of Islam is not being imported, but is increasingly homegrown. It includes not only Muslims on the fringe of French society, but hundreds of highly educated and westernized French Muslims who are becoming intoxicated with the holy-war ideology being preached throughout western Europe. When asked, most will deny any involvement or assimilation into French culture.

Muslim immigration to Germany has been primarily from Turkey. Since 1990 there has been an increase in Muslim asylum seekers from Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan. This has grown that immigrant population to about 2.5 million.

In Germany, Muslim youth are following an Iranian concept, which is known as ³the new holy-war community of believers.² It recognizes no national or ethnic identity. It even shows disdain for traditional Islamic values. This new doctrine is one, which The Weekly Standard calls,² a belief that suicide and murder become sacred acts of believers who want to bring about a purifying Apocalypse.²

Holland has seen a thirty-year experiment in trying to develop a tolerant multicultural society fail. Government officials claim their worst mistake was to encourage Muslim children to speak Turkish, Arabic or Berber in elementary school, instead of Dutch. The resultŠ 850,000 Muslims who have failed to assimilate into the nation¹s culture, import spouses from their home countries, are creating militant enclaves, actively preach Jihad and work to built a terrorist networks in this nation of only 16 million people.

Our most important ally Great Britain has not been immune to a growing Muslim presence. In 1951 there were only 23,000 Muslims in the country. Fifty years later that figure had expanded to 2 million. In addition to a documented Muslim immigrant population made up primarily of Pakistanis, Indians and Bangladeshis, there has been a large influx of undocumented Arabs and Somalis whose numbers are disputed.

That these are true asylum seekers is suspect. They have been seen by the thousands in mosques listening to anti-western Islamic rhetoric. It is known some are taking lessons in making incendiary devices and other weapons of terror. Even France, with Muslim problems of its own, has warned Britain that many of those it is sheltering under the asylum system are terrorists.

According to Frontpagemag.com, French intelligence services have even provided the names of known terrorists living in Great Britain and told the British which mosques these terrorists attend. Nothing has been done and Britain¹s Muslim problem continues

Currently there are about 23 million Muslims residing in Europe. Of course, these are not all fundamentalists. In all fairness in must be noted that many Muslims have become westernized. By accepting western values and lifestyle, they have also made themselves targets to the more militant of Islamic factions. There is major conflict between the new western approach to life and what those who claim to be Islamists demand. Those Muslims who adopt western ways are also the enemy in the eyes of fundamentalists.

Islamic fundamentalist hatred of all things western is something, which baffles both Europeans and Americans. This hatred is a rejection of western civilization, not only for what it is, but also for the values it professes. Among the Islamists, those who promote or accept this life style are enemies of God.

In Islam the war between good and evil has both political and military dimensions. By their philosophy, according to Bernard Lewis writing in Atlantic Monthly, ³If the fighters in a war for Islam, the holy war in the path of God, are fighting for God, it follows that their opponents are fighting against God. And since God is in principle, the sovereign, the supreme head of the Islamic stateŠthen God as sovereign commands the army.² Lewis goes on to write, ³The duty of God¹s soldiers is to dispatch God¹s enemies as quickly as possible to the place where God will chastise them, that is to say, the afterlife.²

Islam is more than religion. It is also the politics or Muslims and the platform on which Muslims base their militancy. As this radical version of the faith has grown, it has destroyed the culture of a great people. Once leading the world in art, science and education, militant Islam has reduced every land where it flourishes to that of a Third World country. It has triggered more warfare than any faith. As a quick exercise try to think of two or three wars raging in the world that do not involve Islam.

Muslims in America have found open hostility since the events of September 11, 2001. Some leaders of the Islamic community have been urging Muslims to return to the countries of their origin. Other leaders have been urging the establishment of stronger Islamic communities here in the United States. While traditional Islamic law states Muslims should reside in their own lands, it also concedes that Muslims may live in non-Muslim lands as long as they fulfill their religious obligations.

Observers see the Muslim community as being very conflicted because of the pronouncements by its own leadership. Increasing the conflict is the fact that Muslims born in the United States are more open, more tolerant and less sectarian. This creates divisions, which have detrimental effects within these closed communities. Regardless of being U.S. born or immigrant, all Muslims in America share similar views on international Muslim politics, the hypocrisy of United States foreign policy, and negative media reports about Muslims.

Viewed from the western perspective, Muslim immigration into the United States is becoming a concern. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the nation. In just over thirty years, immigration from the mid-east has changed from being about 15% to 73% of immigrants being Muslim. From a small number in the 1970s, the mid-eastern immigrants have grown to an estimated 2.5 million.

Within this body of immigrants we have already found terror cells, terror finance operations and those who support fundamentalist ideas. We have also seen that that Muslim support of America¹s War on Terror has been weak at best. There have been a few letters to newspapers, sound bites on television news and interviews where Muslim leaders go through the motions of expressing sorrow at the loss of 3,000 innocent lives or words of encouragement of the people of America. Missing has been any real expression of outrage at any terrorist act. Now our own government, in an attempt to be politically correct says, ³We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with terror!² A nation cannot be at war with an ³outcome². Terror is an outcome of militant Islam.

With all of these things unfolding, there is now even a movement to modify language. We are being told that it is not a preaching of Islam to hate. They even tell us that Islam really means ³peace². This is a new definition by any stretch. What Islam means is ³submission². It is the objective of Islam to have all non-believers submit. If they will not do so willingly, they will be forced into submission.

We cannot speak for those countries in Europe, but there is one thing all Islamists should quickly learn about AmericaŠ.it doesn¹t submit to anyone.

Thomas D. Segel is a Texan, now of Harlingen in the deep south Rio Grande Valley. A twice wounded, former combat correspondent, he retired from 26 years of service in the United States Marine Corps. Segel holds eight personal decorations for valor and meritorious service. He also hold the Thomas Jefferson Award for Journalistic Excellence and was named Military Writer of the Year.

http://www.americandaily.com/article/2045

Huja Usman
27-06-04, 07:46 PM
WHat do they expect from Young Muslims when they are making war against Islam? They are very smart when using the word "intergating" when actually it means making the young muslims like kuffar. Rejecting Allah SWT. Who will protect those young muslims on yawmul qiyamah? The German state?:banghead:

suspiro3
01-07-04, 01:54 AM
The lack of integration is a real problem. The internal focus of Muslim society in Western countries is creating real difficulties.

Multiculturalism in Britain has been a real success for native Britons, Africans, Indians, Chinese and many others. It has failed with Muslims, however, because of the intolerance and arrogance of the Western ascendancy and the intolerance and arrogance of Islam.

Who is going to bridge this divide?

AbuMubarak
01-07-04, 08:39 AM
kafirs dont mind practicing kufr

muslims generally, as a rule, reject kufr

qwerty
01-07-04, 06:54 PM
assimiltion is kufr
integration is kufr

BirdShot
05-07-04, 02:55 PM
So why emmigrate to a Western Country at all?

Just wondering.

BS

typical asian
05-07-04, 06:02 PM
when american or british come to our country, they came to take over, not to integrate

why we are not allowed to do that also? :p

Mary Carol
05-07-04, 06:33 PM
why we are not allowed to do that also? :p

Better adab?

Consider
05-07-04, 06:54 PM
Islam allows "culture" as long as it doesnt contradict Islamic teachings.

So, if British culture means alcohol, immoral dress codes, x, y, z etc. then of course you wont find Muslims "integrating".

You will find chinese, Indians, Africans etc. "integrating" as they have no such restrictions in their native cultures.

A bit unsure about Indian culture (as I have a feeling that Indians/Hindu's also like their women dressed modestly) but then again, that may be based on culture alone, rather than on religion (?) and culture is something that you can pick and choose from... religion, however, is a total way of life.

BirdShot
05-07-04, 08:52 PM
By integrate I mean being active in local events, charities, schools etc. I know most muslims don't take advantage of their right to vote because it's not a "muslim" government - but the rest seems harmless.

As for the colonial thing - are you saying Muslims are trying to conquer/colonize Western countries?

Thanks.

BS

AbuMubarak
05-07-04, 11:11 PM
By integrate I mean being active in local events, charities, schools etc. I know most muslims don't take advantage of their right to vote because it's not a "muslim" government - but the rest seems harmless.

As for the colonial thing - are you saying Muslims are trying to conquer/colonize Western countries?

Thanks.

BS
yes

BirdShot
05-07-04, 11:34 PM
Oh, thanks for clearing that one up for me. ;)

BS

Consider
06-07-04, 09:38 AM
By integrate I mean being active in local events, charities, schools etc. I know most muslims don't take advantage of their right to vote because it's not a "muslim" government - but the rest seems harmless.

The lack of participation in local events, charities and schools is something that needs working on, and is not a reflection of a peoples unwillingness to integrate, rather, there are other factors involved.

There are a range of things that can fall under local events, so it fall backs to what or what not is permissible under Islam.

Charitiy work - I know many Muslims who participate in charity work. Those organisations may not work under the banner of an "english" or "american" charities, but there are many Muslim charity organisations out there, example: orphan aid.

Yes, Muslims need to be more active in these areas, as it is part of our faith to help the poor and needy; many Muslims may believe that they are doing their bit by paying the annual Zakat and the Zakat ul Fitr (payable on Eid ul Fitr).

Schools - Dont know much about this area.

In any case, you have to take many other factors into consideration. With respect to the last category, many parents may not be able to speak english properly, so this will affect their participation in schools. Insha'Allaah, we will see improvement in this area in the next generations.

Amir Ali
06-07-04, 08:15 PM
Peace be upon you all,

If by integration/assimilation you mean beer bongs and nightly binges, Baywatch culture, booty calls and bad language in every sentence....I think Muslim kids would do well to stay away from that kind of integration or assimilation.

I know Muslim kids who dare to be different and they like to hang around with friends that are like them. Nothing wrong in that at all. They should be praised.

There are plenty of Muslim private schools (about 400 I think) as well in America - they have to turn away students becasue they don't want overcrowding. They are outstanding in Academic achievements (Al Iman, Al Razi and Al Noor in the NYC area).

My son goes to a non-religious private school (not an Islamic one) but majority of his education is done at home anyway.

I find the school has a Muslim principal and a couple of Muslim teachers.

Muslims have integrated or assimilated fairly well in America, in my opinion:

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/muslimlife/homepage.htm

"American values are, by and large, very consistent with Islamic values, with a focus on family, faith, hard work, and an obligation to better self and society."

We came to western shores to bring our values here.

What kind of immigrant assimilation are we talking about exactly?

When the early Christian American immigrants landed on the shores of America - did they assimilate and integrate?

Look at the Amish in Pennsylvania and the Jews in Brooklyn, NY - have they integrated or have they assimilated like the Muslims?

Peace.

Huja Usman
06-07-04, 10:55 PM
Peace be upon you all,

If by integration/assimilation you mean beer bongs and nightly binges, Baywatch culture, booty calls and bad language in every sentence....I think Muslim kids would do well to stay away from that kind of integration or assimilation.

I know Muslim kids who dare to be different and they like to hang around with friends that are like them. Nothing wrong in that at all. They should be praised.

There are plenty of Muslim private schools (about 400 I think) as well in America - they have to turn away students becasue they don't want overcrowding. They are outstanding in Academic achievements (Al Iman, Al Razi and Al Noor in the NYC area).

My son goes to a non-religious private school (not an Islamic one) but majority of his education is done at home anyway.

I find the school has a Muslim principal and a couple of Muslim teachers.

Muslims have integrated or assimilated fairly well in America, in my opinion:

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/muslimlife/homepage.htm

"American values are, by and large, very consistent with Islamic values, with a focus on family, faith, hard work, and an obligation to better self and society."

We came to western shores to bring our values here.

What kind of immigrant assimilation are we talking about exactly?

When the early Christian American immigrants landed on the shores of America - did they assimilate and integrate?

Look at the Amish in Pennsylvania and the Jews in Brooklyn, NY - have they integrated or have they assimilated like the Muslims?

Peace.
exellent.

Mary Carol
07-07-04, 12:33 AM
Look at the Amish in Pennsylvania and the Jews in Brooklyn, NY - have they integrated or have they assimilated like the Muslims?

Peace.

Why do you use those two extremes as examples?

The Amish's entire society is based on the exclusion of the rest of the world.
They have never assimilated...those who choose to leave the religion are shunned.

And as you well know, there are many different groups included in the Jewish religion...as in our own faith.

The Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) do not assimilate, while the
Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist Jews do.

I hardly think that you or I would fit into the definition (here at Ummah) of an orthodox Muslim.

But then neither would most of the Muslims that I have had the pleasure of getting to know.

We manage to keep our faith and assimilate into the society around us to the degree that we choose.

Enjoining the good and forbiding that which is evil.

And Allah (swt) knows best.

Amir Ali
07-07-04, 05:03 PM
Peace be upon you Mariam,

Thanks for the post. I agree my examples are extreme and I chose them deliberately - as examples.

Tom Segel's article above also just focuses on extreme examples and is full of racist bigoted rubbish like:

"Islamic fundamentalist hatred of all things western is something, which baffles both Europeans and Americans."

"Islam is more than religion. It is also the politics or Muslims and the platform on which Muslims base their militancy."

"...militant Islam has reduced every land where it flourishes to that of a Third World country"

"We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with terror!² A nation cannot be at war with an ³outcome². Terror is an outcome of militant Islam."

"Regardless of being U.S. born or immigrant, all Muslims in America share similar views on international Muslim politics, the hypocrisy of United States foreign policy, and negative media reports about Muslims."

"It is the objective of Islam to have all non-believers submit. If they will not do so willingly, they will be forced into submission."


Spegel tries to blame Muslims for all the misery in the world:

"It has triggered more warfare than any faith. As a quick exercise try to think of two or three wars raging in the world that do not involve Islam."

Muslims constitute the largest number of refugees in the world. Muslims are the number one victims of violence, war, and terrorism in the world. Tens of thousands of Muslims are being slaughtered by people who claim to be "Good Christians" - Gee - I'd hate to see what a "Bad Christian" is like.

Somehow the author believes Tex-Mex is a wonderful assimiliation of the two borders and then goes on to compare that to his racist views on Muslims.

But seeing that his article is factually full of errors (and "inspired" by Daniel Pipes) - I we can forgive his ignorance. No matter how many times you say "Remember the Alamo" people like Segel will ignore history or try to use it against the very people that fought for Texas.

Texas was once Mexico. Assimilation? Come again? Many of the settlers that came to Texas came only for the land, never intending to become part of Mexican society. They deliberately broke Mexican laws by evading taxes and bringing slavery into the territory. Amongst the Texans were Tejanos as well as the Mexicans and Anglos who fought together to free Texas but as usual only the "white man" gets all the credit.

America is a nation of immigrants....However, those who think that all immigrants who come here should forget their culture, religion, heritage and rich traditions and get with the program - or rather "My way or the highway" attitude are delusional. The Irish brought their baggage, the Germans, their baggage, the Italians, their baggage, the Indians and their baggage, The Jews with their baggage, etc, etc, some of it was good and some bad.

Just putting "Eid Mubarak" on a stamp or coining a new term after us "diaper heads" is not integration or assimilation.

Muslims too will bring their values. Muslims are not all from one country - they bring different global cultures from China to Tanzania (that's me) into America as well. They bring their religious values as well.

The early Christians did not assimilate but forced the indigenous population (The "heathens") of the land to submit to their ways. Muslims aren't forcing anyone to "submit".

Segel spews more trash:

"We cannot speak for those countries in Europe, but there is one thing all Islamists should quickly learn about AmericaŠ.it doesn¹t submit to anyone."

Islam today is the fastest growing religion in America - But how many Muslims are being forcefully "submitted" to Islam in America?

Anyways, like those immigrants who came before us - we're here to share our values, our cultures, our traditions and heritage and our religion - and we're not forcing it down on anyone's throat.

If people like Segel do not like it - they are free to pack up and leave for Israel or whichever "western" country they identify with - because we're here to stay.

Peace.

Amir Ali
07-07-04, 09:43 PM
Peace be upon you all,

As for Muslim participation in the USA with regard to charities and society in general - Here is what Carl S. Dudley writes on findings of a study of 14,301 congregations called "Faith Communities Today" which included mosques as well:

2. With amazing affinity, Muslim congregations (masjeds) have the same high level of community caring as the churches and synagogues down the street. With their FACT data, the Council on American-Islamic Relations shows that mosques assist families and individuals with cash (90%), counseling (77%), food (77%), prison or jail programs (66%), and clothing (64%). These typically higher rates of support reflect a deep commitment to help people get a foothold in society.

Source: http://fact.hartsem.edu/topfindings/topicalfindings_article8.htm

You can look it up - Nation of Islam has the best record for acohol abuse treatment programs.

Mosques in the USA also provide other community services including voter registration services:

http://www.cair-net.org/mosquereport/Mosque_Community_Services.htm

Muslims vote - they few in here that feel it is "kufr" to vote are a small minority. Muslims voted in bloc for Bush.

The last three years two Muslim candidates ran for Congress and one for Governor in California. There are others in Virginia and Michigan who ran also for various posts. There are Muslims in Orange County (Reagan country) who hold positions from police commissioners to the local Chamber of Commerce.

Schools? Muslims are well educated with college degrees.

http://www.allied-media.com/Arab-American/welloff.htm

I know Muslims who are engineers with NASA, professors teaching everything from Medicine, Islamic Law at UCLA, to Political Science at Cal State.

Did anyone know Arabic is taught in public schools here in California? For who? Future CIA agents or because there are a lot of Muslim students? (20% of US Muslims live in California).

Local Events? There are countless here - one recent one I attended was a local concert for peace and co-existence called "Al Andalus to Jerusalem" when featuring Arab and Persian (Muslim as well as Christian), Middle Eastern Jewish, and Armenian world music performers performing to a huge and diverse crowd of Los Angelenos. The MC was Ahmed Ahmed - Egyptian born California raised Hollywood Comedian. He's been acted in “Roseanne”, “Tracy Takes On”, “In Living Color,” and has had roles in numerous movies, including “Executive Decision.”

Did you know that the 7 (or 8) "Halloween" movies were produced by a Syrian Muslim here in the USA? The same family who made "The Message" and "Lion of the Desert".

The Lebanese restaurant in my neighbourhood where I eat at least once a week has photos plastered all over with thanks to the Muslim owner from local public schools that he has supported with free catering for events such as basketball, baseball, stage shows, etc.

A walk down Westwood Blvd in LA and you'll see how the Iranian community has "integrated" - turn a corner and you see Habibi Cafe and Gypsy Cafe - Exactly like those cafes in the Muslim countries, loud Arabic music with strong coffee and Nargile/Shisha/Hookah pipes - only the people are not all Muslims but the heart of Los Angeles society.

Talk about integration....

Peace.

abdulhakeem
08-07-04, 01:00 AM
"No Assimilation But Integration"

On the other hand Islamic fundamentalists know exactly, what they want - "No assimilation, but integration", so Mustafa Yoldas from the alliance of Islamic municipalities, who once judged in a polemic way:



"The Germans will only accept us, if we sit in the tavern after the work, eat pork sausages, drink beer drink and roar with them, “Foreigners go home!”.




Virtuosly the 34-year old general physician from Hamburg points out the contradictions of the natives:



"If we marry a German, we are intermingling their race, if we marry a Turk, we are infiltrating Germany with foreigners.


If we engage ourselves politically, we infiltrate parties, if we refuse then we are not integrated.


Head scarfs covering columns of charwomen and factory workers do not disturb anybody, at the school it becomes a nuisance."

excerpt translated from: http://www.stern.de/politik/deutschland/index.html?id=522169&p=3&nv=ct_cb