Islam's Wife-Beating

[abdulhakeem]

By MEMRI
MEMRI.org | March 25, 2004

Introduction

On January 14, 2004, Sheikh Muhammad Kamal Mustafa, the imam of the mosque of the city of Fuengirola, Costa del Sol, was sentenced by a Barcelona court to a 15 month suspended sentence and fined € 2160 for publishing his book 'The Woman in Islam.' In this book, the Egyptian-born Sheikh Mustafa writes, among other things, on wife-beating in accordance with Shar'ia law.

On pages 86-87, Mustafa states: "The [wife-]beating must never be in exaggerated, blind anger, in order to avoid serious harm [to the woman]." He adds, "It is forbidden to beat her on the sensitive parts of her body, such as the face, breast, abdomen, and head. Instead, she should be beaten on the arms and legs," using a "rod that must not be stiff, but slim and lightweight so that no wounds, scars, or bruises are caused." Similarly, "[the blows] must not be hard." [1]

Mustafa noted in his book that the aim of the beating was to cause the woman to feel some emotional pain, without humiliating her or harming her physically. According to him, wife-beating must be the last resort to which the husband turns in punishing his wife, and is, according to the Qur'an, Chapter 4, Verse 34, the husband's third step when the wife is rebellious: First, he must reprimand her, without anger. Next, he must distance her from the conjugal bed. Only if these two methods fail should the husband turn to beating.

In his verdict, the judge said that Sheikh Mustafa's book contained incitement to violence against women, that today's society is completely different from society 1400 years ago, and that the sections of the book in which the sheikh wrote of wife-beating constitute a violation of the penal code and of women's constitutional rights. In his defense, Sheikh Mustafa's attorney argued that his client was not expressing his personal opinion, but only reiterating the writings of Islam from the 13th and 19th centuries. [2]

The book, which sold around 3,000 copies in Islamic cultural centers across Spain, was removed from the shelves. [3]

The following report will review the writings and statements of Muslim clerics and of other Islamic religious institutions that instead of condemning wife-beating, discuss it as a legitimate way of "disciplining" the wife, based on the Qur'an (4:34).

Sheikh Yousef Qaradhawi: 'It is Permissible For The Husband to Beat Her Lightly'

Sheikh Yousef Qaradhawi, one of the most influential clerics in Sunni Islam and head of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, has advocated non-painful wife-beating.

In his 1984 book 'The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam,' he wrote:
"Because of his natural ability and his responsibility for providing for his family, the man is the head of the house and of the family. He is entitled to the obedience and cooperation of his wife, and accordingly it is not permissible for her to rebel against his authority, causing disruption. Without a captain the ship of the household will flounder and sink.

"If the husband senses that feelings of disobedience and rebelliousness are rising against him in his wife, he should try his best to rectify her attitude by kind words, gentle persuasion, and reasoning with her. If this is not helpful, he should sleep apart from her, trying to awaken her agreeable feminine nature so that serenity may be restored, and she may respond to him in a harmonious fashion. If this approach fails, it is permissible for him to beat her lightly with his hands, avoiding her face and other sensitive parts. In no case should he resort to using a stick or any other instrument that might cause pain and injury.Rather, this 'beating' should be of the kind which the Prophet (peace be on him) once, when angry with his servant, mentioned to him, saying, 'If it were not for the fear of retaliation on the Day of Resurrection, I would have beaten you with this miswak (tooth-cleaning stick)' [as reported by Ibn Majah and by Ibn Hibban, in his Sahih].

"The Prophet (pbuh) admonished men concerning beating their wives, saying 'None of you must beat his wife as a slave is beaten and then have intercourse with her at the end of the day.'

"It was reported to the Prophet (pbuh) that some of his Companions beat their wives, whereupon he said, 'Certainly those are not the best among you [as reported by Ahmad, Abu Daoud, and al-Nisai. Ibn Hibban and Al-Hakim classify it as sound, as narrated by Iyas ibn 'Abdullah ibn Abu Dhiab].'

"Says Imam Al-Hafiz ibn Hajar, 'The saying of the Prophet (pbuh), 'The best among you do not beat,' could imply that beating wives is in general permissible. To be specific, one may beat only to safeguard Islamic behavior and if he (the husband) sees deviation only in what she must do or obey in relation to him. It is preferable to warn (her) or something of the sort, and as long as it is possible to achieve things through warning, any use of force is disallowed because force generates hatred, which is inimical to the harmony expected in marriage. Force is applied only when sin against Allah Ta'alah (masiyah) is feared. Al-Nasai has reported 'Aishah as saying, 'The Prophet (pbuh) never beat any of his wives or servants; in fact, he did not strike anything with his hand except in the cause of Allah or when the prohibitions of Allah were violated, and he retaliated on behalf of Allah.'

"If all these approaches fail, and the rift between the husband and wife deepens, the matter then devolves on the Islamic society for solution. Two individuals of good will and sound judgment, one from the wife's and one from the husband's side, should meet with the couple in order to try to resolve their differences. Perhaps the sincerity of their efforts may bear fruit and Allah may bring about reconciliation between the spouses." [4]

On the Al-Jazeera weekly program 'The Shar'ia and Life' of October 5, 1997, Al-Qaradhawi said: "Beating is permitted [to the man] in the most limited of cases, and only in a case when the wife rebels against her husband… The beating, of course, will not be with a whip, a stick, or a board. The beating will be according to what the Prophet said to a servant girl who annoyed him on a particular matter, 'If it were not for fear of punishment in the Hereafter, I would have beaten you with this miswak.'

"Likewise, the beating must come only after admonishment, and expelling [the wife] from the bed [as is said in the Qur'an 4:34], 'Admonish them, leave them alone in their beds, and beat them.'

He also said: "Beating is not suitable for every wife; it is suitable for certain wives and for other wives it is not. There is a woman who cannot agree to being beaten, and sees this as humiliation, while some women enjoy the beating and for them, only beating to cause them sorrow is suitable…

"The Prophet said about those who beat their wives: 'Those are not the best among you.' The respectable and honest Muslim man does not beat his wife, and his hand is not accustomed to beating. If [the husband] beats [his wife] he must beat her in the way of which we spoke. He must refrain from beating her in sensitive places or on her face." [5]

In a Fatwa posted on www.islamonline.net, Qaradhawi said on the same matter: "It is forbidden to beat the woman, unless it is necessary, and she 'is in a state of rebellion' against the husband and flouts him. This is temporary discipline [ta'adib] that is permitted to him according to the Qur'an in exceptional circumstances, when other efforts of admonishing [the wife] have failed and removing her from the bed as Allah said: 'As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them pretexts (for annoyance): for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).'[Qur'an 4:34] Despite this permission for the hour of necessity, the Prophet said: 'The good men from among you do not beat [their wives].'" [6]

Islamic Affairs Department of Saudi Arabia's Washington, DC Embassy: Men Have a Supervisory Authority because of Their Physical Advantages

According to the website of the embassy of Saudi Arabia's [7] Islamic Affairs Department (IAD), [8] wife-beating is permitted in accordance with Qur'anic verses and Hadiths used by the IAD to explain the rights a husband has over his wives: [9] "The husband's rights on his wife are greater than hers over him." Another source states, "Men have a supervisory authority on account of the physical advantage they possess…" [10] It is also stated, "When the husband calls his wife to his bed and she disobeys, and he spends the night in anger against her, the angels keep cursing her till the morning." [11] In addition, "If a woman dies while her husband was pleased with her," it is explained that "she will enter into Paradise." [12]

The IAD explains that the Qur'an [13] authorizes a husband to beat his "disobedient wife." Like many sources in modern Islamic history, the IAD tries – by basing its interpretation on Hadith – to explain this authority as limited in circumstances as well as in harshness (i.e. limited to use of small, non-harmful methods, such as beating with a toothpick). [14]

If a woman does not follow authority, the IAD explains at what point men are allowed to discipline her: "The maximum disciplining measure is limited by the following: a) It must be seen as a rare exception to the repeated exhortation of mutual respect, kindness and good treatment. Based on the Qur'an and Hadith, this disciplining measure may be used in the case of lewdness on the part of the wife or extreme refraction and rejection of the husband's reasonable requests on a consistent basis. Even then other measures such as exhortation should be tried first. b) As defined by the Hadith, it is not permissible to strike anyone's face, cause any bodily harm or even be harsh. What the Hadith qualified as dharban ghayra mubarrih, or light beating, was interpreted by early jurists as a (symbolical) use of the miswak." [15]

Prominent Muslim-American Leader: 'Beating Does Not Mean Physical Abuse'

Answering the question: "Does Islam allow wife-beating?" Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) stated: "It is important that a wife recognizes the authority of her husband in the house. He is the head of the household, and she is supposed to listen to him. But the husband should also use his authority with respect and kindness towards his wife. If there arises any disagreement or dispute among them, then it should be resolved in a peaceful manner. Spouses should seek the counsel of their elders and other respectable family members and friends to batch up the rift and solve the differences.

"However, in some cases a husband may use some light disciplinary action in order to correct the moral infraction of his wife, but this is only applicable in extreme cases and it should be resorted to if one is sure it would improve the situation. However, if there is a fear that it might worsen the relationship or may wreak havoc on him or the family, then he should avoid it completely."

According to Siddiqi, "The Qur'an is very clear on this issue. Almighty Allah says: ' Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them to guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is most High and Great (above you all). If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers. If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge and is acquainted with all things. (4:34-35)'

"It is important to read the section fully. One should not take part of the verse and use it to justify one's own misconduct. This verse neither permits violence nor condones it. It guides us to ways to handle [a] delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word 'beating' is used in the verse, but it does not mean 'physical abuse.' The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) explained it 'dharban ghayra mubarrih,' which means 'a light tap that leaves no mark.' He further said that [the] face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush."

Siddiqi cites a Hadith to use caution when beating one's wife: "Generally, the Prophet (pbuh) used to discourage his followers from taking even this measure. He never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives. In one Hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, ' How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?' (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)"

Siddiqi adds: "It is also important to note that even this 'light strike' mentioned in the verse is not to be used to correct some minor problem, but it is permissible to resort to only in a situation of some serious moral misconduct when admonishing the wife fails, and avoiding from sleeping with her would not help. If this disciplinary action can correct a situation and save the marriage, then one should use it." [16]

Saudi TV Show: Disciplining Wives and Children

Jasem Muhammad Al-Mutawah, an expert on family matters in Islam, hosts a show on Saudi Arabia's Iqraa TV. [17] In one episode, Al-Mutawa discussed wife-beating while holding a 10-foot pool cue which he said some couples keep in the home. The following are excerpts of one episode; to view in RealPlayer visit: http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl.ram?file=realimpact/memri/memri_10-30-02_08.rm

Al-Mutawah opened the show by explaining: "Imposing discipline within the family is the right of the husband towards his wife, as it is the right of the wife towards the husband. As has always been our custom, on every program we present stories from the home of the Prophet Muhammad and how these stories serve the topic of our program. All the Prophet Muhammad's wives united against him on the matter of meeting their material needs because they had asked for more money, and demanded to live a life of luxury, but the Prophet told them: 'I cannot; this is my material level and this is what I am capable of giving.' On this point the Prophet was resolute, but they insisted on receiving a raise.

"The Prophet, to discipline them, banished them (from his bed) for 30 days until 'Omar Ibn Al-Khattab intervened, to present to the Prophet the wives' desires. But the Prophet was insistent, and then 'Omar Ibn Al-Khattab said to the Prophet: 'Your wives have relinquished their demand'… How did the Prophet handle the matter? With wisdom and calmness. The Prophet did not handle the matter with a rod. We have a proverb that says what? The proverb says: The rod… Ah? The rod for whom? 'The rod is for the disobedient.' What do you think, is it true or not? This is a small rod. I want to take now the large rod… this is not even a rod… Look at this rod with me, look… look… Some husbands and wives keep such rods at home."

Al-Mutawah explains when using the rod is allowed and also on what types of wood they are made from: "I once heard someone say that whenever he has a problem at home he has a very long rod like this. The moment my wife makes a mistake towards me, what I do to her with this rod… We say, then, that the proverb, 'The rod is for the disobedient' is, in truth, a perception that is wrong. On the contrary: The rod destroys our life and our homes. We should solve our problems with dialogue, in truth, we must solve our problems, with mutual understanding because we are human, civilized people. Therefore, every problem in marriage, or every educational problem, we encounter we handle with mutual understanding… The Qur'an states: First of all guidance, advice, and admonition; then, banishment from the bed, and then 'beat them.' When the Qur'an presented this verse, it did not present it for all cases, but for one case out of all ways of female behavior – the case of disobedience. Let's assume that one man, his wife made a mistake, then he comes and says to her: 'I implement the Qur'an on you – advice, banishment, and beatings.' No, brothers, no, sisters… this is a misunderstanding of the religion. So, how should we deal with the other party when they behave with obstinacy and arrogance? How will we impose discipline and change the behavior?

"There is a wife with whom using hard words is useful, and there is a wife with whom it is not. There is a wife with whom using quiet, good words is useful, in contrast, there is a wife with whom if you use hard words her obstinacy will only increase, and thus the problem will get worse. In contrast, there is a wife with whom the situation is the opposite: If you use calm words with her, she will not grasp them, and the problem will continue… We all know that Allah has given authority to the man, including admonishing and guiding the wife in cases of disobedience, banishing her from the bed, and then – the beatings. What is your opinion on the matter?…"

Dr. Muhammad Al-Hajj, lecturer on Islamic faith at the University of Jordan (Amman) was a guest on the show. His opening statement discussed disciplining one's wife: "We in Islam see the family as an institution, an institution that must succeed. This institution has foundations, and it has the elements for its success. Allah gave the management of this institution to the man. This is the concept of guardianship. Guardianship in Islam does not mean repression, concerning which there are penal and moral laws. The issue is who directs this institution, because two people cannot drive a car – there must be one driver. Islam has given the wheel of this car, the car of the family, to the man. The verse discussing the handling of problems that may crop up in the family is included in the passage discussing guardianship: 'Men are the guardians of women,' and then Allah says, 'Admonish those of them on whose part you fear disobedience, and banish them from the beds, and beat them. Then, if they obey you, do not seek a pretext to hurt them.' The order that appears in this verse is a wise order. It is not possible to move to the second stage before the first stage, or to the third stage before the second. The wonderful thing in this verse is that it mentioned this solution for the case of disobedience."

The following are excerpts from the episode:

Guest: "We are not talking about a man imposing discipline every day, asking any little thing of her, and she refuses, and then he banishes her or beats her. Such a thing does not exist in Islam at all."

Host: "All right, doctor, what does 'disobedience' mean?"

Guest: "Yes, Allah said, 'Those on whose part you fear disobedience.' Disobedience is defiance, rebellion, doing deplorable and ugly things about which there is a consensus among the people that they are deplorable. Therefore, not every little transgression at home, such as, she cooked something he didn't want, is considered disobedience. This is not disobedience. Punishment is limited to cases of disobedience, and for instances of making this family into hell, and into an unnatural situation. Then, in order to handle this problem, in the case of the wife's disobedience and rebellion – there must be a cure for such instances – to this end, there is this progression. First, the moment there is fear of disobedience, and even before the disobedience itself happens, comes the stage of admonition: admonition by mentioning Allah, mentioning the rights of the couple, mentioning the continuation of the family and the children's future…"

Host: "And the admonition continues for a long time, not a day or two…"

Guest: "No, no. Obviously, the admonition cannot end in a day or two. It must continue for a significant period, during which all means of persuasion are exhausted."

Host: "The admonition must be done with words, or the [husband] can use a cassette, a video film, a book, a meeting, a course, a magazine…"

Guest: "All these means are included in the method of admonition, which can include also enticements through money or gifts…"

Host: "He can get her an Internet program, so she will learn…"

Guest: "He can remind her of matters concerning this world and the world to come. All these are included in this admonition. And if this wife continues in her rebelliousness…"

Host: "After a long time…"

Guest: "Yes, yes. After all these attempts at persuasion with gentle language, there is still danger of corruption for the family…"

Host: "And the wife continues in her rebelliousness…"

Guest: "And the wife continues in her rebelliousness, there comes another stage, and this is the stage of banishing her from the bed, which is aimed at giving her a sense that 'I am not happy.'"

Host: "Yes."

Guest: "And if she persists and he gives her another chance during this same period and she continues for months, and sometimes even for years, with her refusal and rebellion here is revealed the wisdom of Islam: another means must be introduced. This is the means of the not-hard beatings, and the condition 'not hard' appears in the texts, it is not an interpretation. It is said in the Hadiths of the Prophet that we are talking of 'not-hard' beatings…"

Host: "What is the difference between 'hard' and 'not-hard?'"

Guest: "Hard beatings are those that leave marks on the body or on the face. Thus, beating on the face is prohibited, because the face is a combination of the features of beauty, as it is said. It is forbidden to beat the face, it is forbidden to administer blows that leave fractures or wounds this is what our sages have said in their books."

Host: "Doctor, the Qur'anic verse directs the husband in how to deal with a disobedient wife while if the husband is disobedient, let us assume now the husband is the rebellious one, the husband does not listen, the husband is neglectful, and the husband… rebels! The wife does not have the right to treat the husband in accordance with the three steps stated by the Qur'an. The wife, as it has been written, is restricted to admonition and guidance. She cannot banish him from the bed, and she cannot beat him. Do you not find inequality in this?"

Guest: "No, I do not find inequality in this, because as I said from the outset, the ultimate responsibility for managing the institution of family is given to the husband and therefore when the wife encounters disobedience on the part of her husband, or negative deeds, there is no doubt that she must remark on them and express her dissatisfaction with these deeds; she can go to his friends, his relatives, or her relatives so that they will take care of the problem…"

Host: "You mean that there are other means she can use to handle the husband?"

Guest: "Many means. She can, uh… She can… uh… ask him to get treatment for his problem. All these means. "However, for the situation to get to the point of beating, for example, I think that it is a kind of corruption, if, say, the wife is the one punishing her husband using beatings, because in this there is aggression against (the husband's) rule and responsibility. Besides, Islam has spared her the need to use her hand to beat, in order to preserve the woman's femininity, honor, and morality."

Host: "Doctor, we thank you for the interview and for the good words we have heard from you."

Al-Mutawah ended the show with a detailed explanation of wife-beating and how to deal with Western criticism of such activity.

Host: "The interview with the doctor was most enjoyable, and it gave us some of the meanings, but I would like to add to the doctor's words the claims spreading in the West today according to which, 'You Muslims are not giving the woman her rights; how have you given the husband three means for dealing with (the wife) and not give the wife three means for dealing with the husband? Why can't the woman beat the man?! Why can't the wife banish the husband from bed?!' And I say to you that anyone who studies Islamic religious law – who said that the wife cannot banish the husband from the bed in Islamic law?! Who said that the woman has no right to beat the man?! Do you want me to give you a lesson in Islamic religious law? Read the Islamic religious law and you will see that Islamic religious law gave women this right. There is, therefore, equality. Besides, on the subject of disobedience, there is no doubt that we are speaking of exceptional cases, as we have shown. And this, by the way, is an issue of choice – it is not compulsory. That is, even if the wife of a particular husband is disobedient, is he obliged to admonish and advise, to banish her from the bed, or to beat her? No, he is not obliged. If he says: 'By Allah, I have a brilliant idea that is not included in the three steps,' will we tell him: 'You cannot carry it out?' No, it is not prohibited. He may carry it out. Islamic religious law, therefore, comes to guide; the law comes to protect the family and stability… Therefore, although Islamic religious law permitted beatings, the sages came and discussed the subject of beatings. The most extreme of them was Ibn 'Abbas. I want to show you something that I keep in my pocket. Allah be praised, look… Ibn 'Abbas said that the husband must beat his wife with a handkerchief. Imagine this together with me. Can one beat with rods like we saw at the beginning of the program? No! He beats using a handkerchief! This is the interpretation of Ibn 'Abbas, which is an extreme interpretation. Another interpretation of the sages is that he beat his wife using toothpicks. This is because the point of the beatings is not revenge.

"If the beatings were for the purpose of revenge, the husband would sin. The point of the beatings is to convey a message: 'Oh so and so, I am not happy,' 'Oh so and so, behave yourself, behave like you should.' This is the lesson. Therefore, why did Ibn 'Abbas say that she should be beaten with a handkerchief? Can any of you believe this? Westerners are now coming to us complaining about the matter of beatings. All right, it doesn't happen among us that a wife dies because of husband's beating. And if something like this does happen in our society, it is considered rare, and all the newspapers talk of it, true or not? In contrast, the latest U.N. statistics from 1999-2000 say that every 12 seconds in the U.S. a wife is beaten by her husband and in some instances these beatings reach the point of killing the wife. Therefore, when the Westerners bring up complaints against us regarding our affairs, why shouldn't we be strong and bring up complaints against them regarding their affairs? Despite the existence of the verse in the Qur'an, no cases of death have been recorded in our society, and if there were, then these were rare cases. In contrast, they are without verse, religious law, or law, and despite this, every 12 seconds a wife is beaten by her husband! What is better?! A man must know… Therefore, when we have a dialogue with the West, we must talk with them based on foundations, based on culture, based on thought. That is one thing. Second, when they come and say to us that Islam gave the wife the right that her husband will banish her from the bed, but the wife does not banish the husband – Who said so?!

"The wife, in two instances, has the right to banish her husband from the bed. The first instance is if he asks to have sex with her in a place forbidden by religious law, let's say the anus and the second instance is if he behaves towards the wife in an offensive manner during sex. Then she is permitted to banish him from the bed. And who said that the wife has no right to beat her husband? This too is permitted her. This appears in a very important study by Dr. Muhammad Said Ramadan Al-Bouti. He said that Islam protects the soul of the woman, defends her biological structure. Her build is weaker than the man's and if Islam gave the wife the right to beat her husband – by Allah, her husband would break her! True or not? The husband with his build and muscles – the wife cannot handle him.

"But Islam gave the woman the right that the husband will be beaten by someone on her behalf. The husband is beaten by a man, and then the battle is waged between two men, and not between a man and a woman. Between two men. Therefore, if the husband scorned the wife, humiliated her, or treated her disrespectfully, the wife can go to court, and then the judge rules the wife her right. And so, if the wife wants the husband to be beaten, he will be beaten! But he will be beaten by court order, and then the battle is waged between the judge and the husband, and not between the husband and the wife, within the home. Therefore, my brothers and sisters, the matter must be discussed realistically and logically. If husband and wife … even in one of the psychology conferences, when they presented this Qur'anic verse, there was a psychiatrist who converted to Islam because of this verse. He said: 'This is the first time that I see, in the holy book of a monotheistic religion, a social and psychological problem being handled by the Qur'an.' We all know that some men are afflicted with a mental illness known as 'sadism' and some women are also afflicted with a mental illness known as 'masochism.' What is the treatment for these mental illnesses? Beatings! He must treat her harshly! Even one of the sages claimed that this verse descended for those afflicted with this mental illness. Therefore, a husband married to a wife afflicted by this illness, let's say sadism – well, let him beat her because the beatings, for her, are a cure."

Study of Egyptian Government TV: Viewers Believe 'Women Deserve to be Beaten'

The May 22-28, 2003 issue of Al-Ahram Weekly featured an article by Lina Mahmoud on violence against women shown on Egyptian television. The article focused on the results of a media monitoring project conducted by the New Woman Research Center (NWRC) and the Media House (MH), an independent production company. According to the article, the project, which monitored 18 television dramas [18] shown on Egyptian national television during Ramadan 2002, is the first of its magnitude to study the portrayal of violence against women in Egyptian media. The following are excerpts from the article as it appeared in English:

"The group counted the number of cases of violence shown on the programs. The study was conducted during the month of Ramadan because it is the month with the highest television viewer rates. According to Nalwa [sic] Darwish [of the NWRC], 'Audiovisual media has a great influence in shaping the collective consciousness of Egyptians. The extremely high illiteracy rates in Egypt, among women in particular, give media an uncontested role in dictating people's behaviour and ideas…'

"The report of the findings of the study shows that all of the programs reviewed last Ramadan included scenes of violence against women. 'The problem is that those who perpetuate the violence are the heroes of the episodes, are those who are closest to the hearts of the audience and hence have the largest impact on them,' said the report.

"The report also addressed the ways viewers react to violence. Just as disturbing as the portrayals of violence against women is the lack of public outrage to them. In many cases, observers responded with either indifference or approval, making such aggression seem commonplace or justifiable.

"The majority of the women portrayed in the television episodes were housewives, followed by a large number of students. Unemployed individuals comprised 5.1 percent of the characters. The report argued that this is not an accurate representation and that the actual unemployment rate for women is much higher… Many of the soap operas featured educated characters, particularly university graduates, ignoring the fact that half of the Egyptian population is illiterate.

"Beating was the most prevalent mode of physical violence against women in the dramas, accounting for 42 percent of all physical aggression. Other forms of violence included killing (13.1 percent) and forms of sexual abuse. Incidents of verbal and sexual harassment were found in many of the shows and withholding sex from wives was portrayed as a form of punishment.

"In all of the cases of violence against women, 41.9 percent of the 'heroines' displayed active resistance, whereas 31.1 percent accepted the abuse. This resistance was usually verbal in form, although one woman reacted by killing herself and another became physically paralyzed. Further, 67.3 per cent of the men who acted violently against women displayed no remorse. Thirty percent felt guilty and shameful.

"Most of the women in the programs played negative roles. The few women who were portrayed positively were shown as naïve or harmless wives, lovers, and mothers.

"Darwish expressed her uneasiness at the results of the report. 'In 12 serials, there were 500 violent episodes. This means there are one or two scenes of violence in each part of a serial. This is too much. Moreover, not a single series was free of violence against women.'

"After the completion of the report, a documentary was filmed in which people were questioned about their reactions to violence in television dramas. 'Women deserve to be beaten,' responded one viewer. 'A husband should beat his wife if she does something wrong,' said another. One woman said that 'men are so cruel to women. They should be merciful.' A young man commented that beating a woman makes her 'more stubborn.'

"The meeting convened by the NWRC and MH posed several important questions. What is required of the media? Should the media portray violence against women? Should television programs condemn violence against women or reflect it as it is? Most everyone seemed to agree, however, that television should stop stereotyping women negatively and avoid showing violence against women in a positive light." [19]

Muslim-Canadian Professor Explains: "There Are Cases, However, In Which A Wife Persists In Bad Habits"

Dr. Jamal Badawi, professor at Saint Mary's University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, and a cross-appointed faculty member in the Departments of Religious Studies and Management, has also explained that Islam allows beating ones wife. Badawi explains which circumstances permit "striking" a disobedient wife:

"If the problem relates to the wife's behavior, the husband may exhort her and appeal for reason. In most cases, this measure is likely to be sufficient. In cases where the problem persists, the husband may express his displeasure in another peaceful manner, by sleeping in a separate bed from hers. There are cases, however, in which a wife persists in bad habits and showing contempt of her husband and disregard for her marital obligations. Instead of divorce, the husband may resort to another measure that may save the marriage, at least in some cases. Such a measure is more accurately described as a gentle tap on the body, but never on the face, making it more of a symbolic measure than a punitive one.

Dr. Badawi elaborates on six instances regarding the permissibility of wife-beating as follows:

"a) It must be seen as a rare exception to the repeated exhortation of mutual respect, kindness and good treatment. Based on the Qur'an and Hadith, this measure may be used in the cases of lewdness on the part of the wife or extreme refraction and rejection of the husband's reasonable requests on a consistent basis (nushuz). Even then, other measures, such as exhortation, should be tried first.

" b) As defined by Hadith, it is not permissible to strike anyone's face, cause any bodily harm or even be harsh. What the Hadith qualifies as dharban ghayra mubarrih, or light striking, was interpreted by early jurists as a (symbolic) use of siwak! They further qualified permissible 'striking' as that which leaves no mark on the body. It is interesting that this latter fourteen-centuries-old qualifier is the criterion used in contemporary American law to separate a light and harmless tap or strike from 'abuse' in the legal sense. This makes it clear that even this extreme, last resort, and 'lesser of the two evils' measure that may save a marriage does not meet the definitions of 'physical abuse,' 'family violence,' or 'wife battering' in the 20th century law in liberal democracies, where such extremes are so commonplace that they are seen as national concerns.

" c) The permissibility of such symbolic expression of the seriousness of continued refraction does not imply its desirability. In several Hadiths, the Prophet (pbuh) discouraged this measure. Here are some of his sayings in this regard: 'Do not beat the female servants of Allah'; 'Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you.' In another Hadith the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said: 'How does any one of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?'

"d) True following of the Sunnah is to follow the example of the Prophet (pbuh) who never resorted to that measure, regardless of the circumstances.

"e) Islamic teachings are universal in nature. They respond to the needs and circumstances of diverse times, cultures and circumstances. Some measures may work in some cases and cultures or with certain persons but may not be effective in others. By definition, a 'permissible' act is neither required, encouraged, or forbidden. In fact it may be to spell out the extent of permissibility, such as in the issue at hand, rather than leaving it unrestricted or unqualified, or ignoring it all together. In the absence of strict qualifiers, persons may interpret the matter in their own way, which can lead to excesses and real abuse.

"f) Any excess, cruelty, family violence, or abuse committed by any 'Muslim' can never be traced, honestly, to any revelatory text (Qur'an or Hadith). Such excesses and violations are to be blamed on the person(s) himself, as it shows that they are paying lip service to Islamic teachings and injunctions and failing to follow the true Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh)." [20]

[I]*Steven Stalinsky is Executive Director of MEMRI; Y. Yehoshua is a Research Fellow at MEMRI.

[1] http://www.sudaneseonline.com/cgi-bin/sdb/2bb.cgi?seq=msg&board=1058187705&rn-1.

[2] In a similar incident, a Turkish state-funded religious foundation published retired Turkish cleric Kemal Guran's 'The Muslim's Handbook'(2000) which recommended wife-beating but warns "not to strike the women's face, but to hit her gently elsewhere." At the time of the book's release, Turkish parliamentarian Ferda Cilalioglu called it "scandalous" and "insane." (www.islamonline.com, August 13, 2000).

[3] Roz Al-Yousef (Egypt), January 30, 2004.

[4] Al-Qaradawi, Yusuf. The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam. Kuwait: International Islamic Federation of Student Organization, 1984. p.205-206.

[5] Al-Jazeera (Qatar), October 5, 1977. http://www.aljazeera.net/programs/shareea/articles/2003/5/5-28-6.htm.

[6] Islam Online, http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/arabicFatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=1484

[7] The Saudi Gazette reports that t he issue of wife-beating is a pressing one among Muslims in the Middle East as well. 300 women recently initiated a lawsuit against their husbands for "brutal beating and unjustified physical abuse. Saudi Gazette, March 3, 2004.

[8] MEMRI Special Report No. 23, November 26, 2003, ' The Islamic Affairs Department of the Saudi Embassy in Washington, D.C. '

[9] In Saudi Arabia today, women are denied certain rights and privileges afforded to male citizens. Women are denied the right to drive a car, to obtain a state identification without the consent and presence of a male guardian, or to travel outside the country without the permission a male guardian.

[10] IAD website: "Rights Dictated by Nature: Rights of Both Spouses on Each Other."

[11] IAD website: "Rights Dictated by Nature: Rights of Both Spouses on Each Other." The IAD cites Qur'anic verse 4:129.

[12] IAD website: "Rights Dictated by Nature: Rights of Both Spouses on Each Other."

[13] The IAD cites Qur'an 4:34.

[14] IAD website: "Women in Islam."

[15] IAD website: "Gender Equity in Islam."

[16] Islam Online, http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=41775, June 25, 2003/July 25, 2003.

[17] IQRAA Television (Saudi Arabia), Program on Imposing Discipline in the Family: Hosted by Jasem Muhammad Al-Mutawah, Expert on Family Matters, May 9, 2002, http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl.ram?file=realimpact/memri/memri_10-30-02_08.rm.

[18] "Among the serials were Asa'd Ragul fi Al-Alam (The Happiest Man in the World), Al-Atar wa Al-Saba'a Banat (The Herbalist and His Seven Daughters), Qassem Amin, Ayna Qalbi (Where is My Heart?), Amira fi Abdeen (A Princess in Abdeen), together with six films shown on the two main Egyptian channels, Channel One and Channel Two. Among these films were Al Hafid (the Grandson), Al Zawga 13 (Wife Number 13)."

[19] Al-Ahram Weekly (Egypt), May 22-28, 2003, http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/print/2003/639/fe3.htm. See MEMRI Special Dispatch 522, June 13, 2003, 'Egyptian Television's Portrayal of Excessive Violence Against Women.'

[20] Islam Online, http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=41775, June 25, 2003/July 25, 2003.

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12715

[dour]

It should never be done for whatever reason. In fact there is no reason or excuse to hit your wife.

[amal]

Yes, women are very sensitive and its enough only the man to be little bit more different in behaviour, the wife to knows she has a problem in the house. In fact the hard words we are never forgeting.

[BraveHeart]

Asalamaleykum

THis is someth that happend to a friend of mine and its Just soo sad...She used to be a christain and all..and he helped her to ISlam of course with Allah's guide.
and then right after it he started beatin her like a Manhttp://sc.groups.msn.com/themes/R9c/pby/img/emoticons/emdgust.gif...even when she was pregnant he still would beat her and Lost 3kids coz of that...she would always ask me for help.I neva knew anything helpful to say
and when she did gave birth to a baby-girl he said that she doesnt loook like him and that it isnt his babyhttp://sc.groups.msn.com/themes/R9c/pby/img/emoticons/emdgust.gif and divorced her.
she died a yr ago my friend (may allah Open the doors of Jannah for her..ameen)...and then he said that he wouldnt take care of his daughter..so now she lives with christain-ppl and they teach her abt christanityhttp://sc.groups.msn.com/themes/R9c/pby/img/emoticons/emcry.gif...poor thing..I seriously would Hang that guy..ufffffff



Wife Beaters in Islam.
What do you think of them? Any advice for the victims
and guilty parties?


~Jammy~

[AbuMubarak]

Allah has forbidden oppression upon Himself, and He has forbidden us to oppress each other

between an oppressed woman and Allah, there is no distance for her dua to travel

tell her to make much dua, and if she can, to get some brothers to kick his butt

[Al-Nasser]

tell her to make much dua, and if she can, to get some brothers to kick his butt
she died a yr ago my friend
i don't think its a good idea that the daughter stay with such father...she must be raised with some Muslim family but not with such man

btw...Imam Malik said that if the husband is that much oppressive the wife must seek the help of her male relatives to stop him..even using physical force.

[Mary Carol]

Where do men, let alone Muslim men get the idea that the oppression of women is ok?

And for Muslim men is there a deficiency somewhere in the Islamic education process that makes them think such behavior is justified?

Or are they simply allowing their nafs to overcome their deen?

For the victims in the US:

Things to do when you face domestic violence or a threat to yourself or your children:

***Get an order or protection agaisnt the abuser. For details call the toll free national domestic violence hotline -1-800-799-SAFE (7233)

Get an order of protection from the ;police and give copies to your friends, relatives and employer.

*** In an emergency call 911.

*** Open a savings account in your own name. Get your own post office box so that you can receive mail and checks.

*** Plan who to stay with or who would be able to lend you money during a crisis.

*** Contact the hotline or any shelter for help in safety planning and keep the hotline number with you at all times. See the contacts and links below for information about crisis centers and women's shelters in your area.

What to take with you:

1. IDENTIFICATION - drivers' licence, passport, your birth certificates, children's birth certificates, marriage licens, social security card, welfare identification, medical insurance cards.

2. MONEY - cash, credit cards, ATM cards, check books, savings books, documentation pertaining to your own financial assets

3. LEGAL DOCUMENTS:

Lease, rental agreement or deed to house/properties
Car registration and insurance papers
Health and life insurance papers
Medical records for you and your children
School and shot records
Work permits/Green Card or visa
Passport
Divorce papers
Custody papers

4. OTHER ITEMS

keys to house, car and safe deposit boxes, clothing, medication, toiletries, phone card, address books, small items to sell, pictures of you, your children and your abuser.

Addresses and phone numbers of the centers for Domestic Violence Coalitions of all States and Territories:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/vawo/state.htm

Domestic violence links worldwide

http://www.dvsheltertour.org/links.html
http://www.zip.com.au/~korman/dv/orgs.html

National Sexual Assault Hotline - 1-800-656-HOPE

National Hopeline Networrk -
toll free 24-hour suicide and crisis hotline - 1-800-SUICIDE (7842433)

Sexual Assault Coalitions and Hotlines of States and Territories:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/vawo/saresources.htm

Statewise divorce information and legal help for the US and Canada:
http://www.divorcesource.com

US statewise link to women's crisis centers with tel. numbers:
http://www.brokenspirits.com/directory/

US statewise numbers for reporter abuse of elderly people:
http://www.elderabusecenter.org/report/

National Domestic Violence Hotline
1-800-799-SAFE or 1-800-787-3224

National Centre for Victims of Crime:
http://www.ncvc.org/links/Sl.htm

US nationwide links for child abuse
http://mova.missouri.org/childab.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------

RESOURCES FOR SOUTH ASIAN WOMEN
south asian women's network
http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/users/sawweb/sawnet/

Maitri - a free, confidential, nonprofit organization based in the San Francisco Bay Area, that helps South Asian women facing domestic violence, emotional abuse or family conflict. Toll Free Hotline: (888) 8-MAITRI

http://www.narika.org/ - Organisation providing help for abused South Asian Women in the US. Toll Free Hotline: 1-800-215-7308.

south asian women's organsiations in india and around the world (US, canada, australia, pakistan, bangladesh, sri lanka, nepal)
http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/users/sawweb/sawnet/SAW.orgn.html

domestic violence resources for south asian women (canada, india, UK, US)
http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/users/sawweb/sawnet/violence.html

NRI and south asian womens legal services (Addresses of different woman organizations located in Canada and USA)
http://www.nrilegalservices.com/women.asp
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additional links:

ARIZONA:
Statewide Toll-free Child Abuse Hotline: 1-888-SOS-CHILD

Rape and domestic violence resources:
http://www.aardvarc.org/dv/states/azdv.shtml
Domestic violence shelters:
http://www.divorcesource.com/shelters/arizona.shtml

City of Phoenix:
24-hour domestic violence hotline:
(602) 263-8900 or 1-800-799-7739

CALIFORNIA:
http://www.safenetwork.net/rd/si000013.htm

http://www.brokenspirits.com/directory/states/CA/

Aasra: 1-800-313-ASRA (1-800-313-2772) or (510) 657-1245 or 510-657-1246. Email: Asraa1@aol.com.

Maitri: (408) 730-4049
Narika: (800) 215-7308

South Asian Network (Southern California).

Asian Women's Shelter. (415)-751-7110 (office) (415)-751-0880 (crisis)
Sahara: (888) 724-2722

SAWI -- South Asian Women's Initiative. San Diego area. Email: sawi_sd@hotmail.com.

CONNECTICUT:
connecticut coalition against domestic violence
(860) 282-7899

HOTLINE: 1-888-774-2900

Sneha: is an organization for women of South Asian origin and their families.Contact: Sneha, Inc. P.O. Box 271650 West Hartford, CT 06126-1650. Ph: (in Connecticut) 1-800-58-SNEHA. From elsewhere: (860) 658-4615. Fax: 860-521-1562. Email: sneha@sneha.org.

Shamokami: (203) 624-8727


FLORIDA
center agaisnt spouse abuse
http://www.casa-stpete.org

24 hour crisis line - 727-8983671

domestic violence centers
http://www.fcadv.org/centers.html

http://www.divorcesource.com/shelters/florida.shtml

http://www.mecop.org/domesticviolence/floridacenters.htm

http://www.angelsonearthinc.com/

http://www.womenindistress.com/

GEORGIA:
Raksha in Atlanta is a support network for all South Asians in distress.
Info. hotline 404- 842-0725

ILLINOIS:
Apna Ghar, Chicago: (773) 334-4663 Email: info@apnaghar.org
Hamdard Center provides emergency and longterm help, including psychological counselling and referral. Chicago:(708) 628-9195 96 W. Moreland, Suite 10, Addison, IL 60101.

Asian Human Services. provides competent and compassionate services to the Asian American community of Chicago, including mental health counselling, health care, advocacy, legal help for domestic violence, youth mentoring, employment

IOWA:
http://www.divorcesource.com/shelters/iowa.shtml

LOUISIANA:
Metropolitan Battered Women's Program. P.O Box 10775, Jefferson, La 70181. Hotline: 1-800-738-8900. Fax 504-828-2893
http://www.metrobatteredwomen.org/

http://www.shesgothelp.com/shelters/shelters/lou.html

domestic abuse laws, louisiana, 2001
http://www.angelfire.com/ar/LRfuzz1/abuselaws/alla.html

louisiana crisis and support services:
http://www.aardvarc.org/dv/states/ladv.shtml

MARYLAND:
Asian/Pacific Islander Domestic Violence Resource Project works with all Asian women, including South Asian, in the DC area. They provide peer support, community education, victim advocacy and referrals for shelter, legal and counseling services. Ph: 202-464-4477

Asha: (301) 369-0134
Samhati (301) 229-6597


MASSACHUSETTS:
http://www.aasranewengland.org/

A member of Manavi: (508) 427-5700 x202, (617) 497-0316
Asian Task Force against Domestic Violence. Hotline: (617) 3382355

MICHIGAN:
Michigan Asian Family Services:
http://www.maifs.org

MINNESOTA:
center against violence and abuse:
http://www.mincava.umn.edu/

Asian Women United of Minnesota provide advocacy services for Asian battered women of all ethnic groups, 24-hour multilingual crisis line, and community education on domestic violence. Crisis phone line: 651-646-2261. Business phone line: 651-646-2118. Fax: 651-646-2284.

NEW YORK/NEW JERSEY:
Domestic violence shelters
http://www.divorcesource.com/shelters/newjersey.shtml

http://www.shesgothelp.com/share/newjer.html

Domestic Abuse Services Inc. women's shelter and
toll free 24-hour hotline 973-8751211

New York State Domestic Violence programs by county
http://www.serve.com/zone/everyone/resource.html

Manavi: (732) 435-1414

Sakhi: hotline (212) 695.5447, Special Events Listings (212) 868.6741
New York Asian Women's Center. Provides direct assistance to battered women and victims of sexual assualt, through culturally sensitive, multi-lingual shelter services, individual advocacy and counseling. 24 hr hotline: (212) 732-5230

AIWA (Asian Indian Women in America): (973) 992-5210. Formed in 1980, it works in career development, acculturation, health, education and general welfare to aid in the growth of vibrant Asian/ South Asian American communities. President: Anju Bhargava, email: aiwaemail@aol.com

Bangladeshi Mahila Samiti: (718)-689-0017
Muslim Women's Committee: (212)-316-6446
Sikh Women's Association: (718)-699-1593
Shomokami: (203)-624-8727

NORTH CAROLINA:
North Carolina Coalition Against Domestic Violence
301 West Main Street - Durham, NC 27701 - 919.956.9124

Long-term transitional housing for women with children
www.HealingHeartsInc.org/

KIRAN: Domestic Violence and Crisis Services for South Asians in North Carolina
Website- www.kiraninc.org
Administrative Line: 919-865-4006
Crisis hotline - (Toll Free) 866-KIRANINC
P.O. Box 3513, Chapel Hill, NC 27515-3513.
Email: kiraninc@hotmail.com

OREGON:
Sawera (South Asian Women's Empowerment and Resource Alliance) is a resource referral for local South Asian women in need. Phone:(503)-778-7386;
Email: sawera@sawera.org

PENNSYLVANIA:
pennsylvania coalition against domestic violence
http://www.pcadv.org

links to domestic violence social services in pennsylvania
http://www.carnegielibrary.org/subject/socserv/abuse.html

domestic abuse counselling center:
http://www.dacc.net/

Philadelphia women's shelter
http://www.womenintransitioninc.org/

Sewaa : P.O. Box 43622, Philadelphia, PA 19104
Phone: (215)62-SEWAA

TEXAS:

Preventing Child Abuse
http://www.preventchildabusetexas.org/

domestic violence
http://www.dhs.state.tx.us/programs/familyviolence

Asians Against Domestic Violence:
Texas: 713-339-8300
info@aadainc.org

Texas council on family violence directory by county
http://www.tcfv.org/to_get_help_in_texas.html

DAYA - P.O. Box 571774, Houston, TX 77257. Offers peer support, referrals, transportation, legal advocacy, outreach/ education.
Phone: (713) 914-1333

SAHELI: (512) 703-8745. P. O. Box 3665, 1806 S. 5th Street, Austin, Texas 78764-366 Email:saheli@usa.net.

VIRGINIA:

Virginia Family Violence and Sexual Assault 24-hour Hotline - 1-800-838-8238
Virginians against domestic violence:
http://www.vadv.org/links.html

YWCA 24-hour hotline - (804) 796-3066

Shenahndoah Women's Center -
24-hour hotline for battered women -
304-2638292/304-7257080/2581078

Angels in the Night Abused Kids' Crisis Center
http://www.angelsinnight.org/

Domestic abuse laws. Virginia, 2001 -
http://www.baddteddy.com/abuse/laws/va.html

SAMHATI- (301) 229-6597

WASHINGTON D.C.

Asian/Pacific Islander Domestic Violence Resource Project works with all Asian women, including South Asian, in the DC area. They provide peer support, community education, victim advocacy and referrals for shelter, legal and counseling services. Ph: 202-464-4477
Asha : (888) 417-2742 toll free

WASHINGTON STATE

Chaya. P.O. Box 12917, Seattle, WA 98111-4917. Phone: Toll free- 1-877-922-4292 Office- 206.325.0325. Staffed 24 hrs/day, 7 days a week.
Email: chaya@oz.net. Provides translation and interpretation services, referrals to shelters, counseling, medical services, legal and immigration services, community outreach, and training.

[Mary Carol]

There are resources for battered men also:

http://www.batteredmen.com/

[Brutus_Beefcake]

This behavior, sadly, is common in the Muslim world. The Koran does not treat women as equals, so is it any suprise that men do not either?

Where do men, let alone Muslim men get the idea that the oppression of women is ok?

And for Muslim men is there a deficiency somewhere in the Islamic education process that makes them think such behavior is justified?

Miriam do you not read your own holy book?

[4:34] The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.

What this man did was Islamically justified. What's all the fuss?

[Al-Nasser]

and that mean the problem on the both worlds is ignorance....the Muslim men who beat their wives interpret this verse like non Muslims do.....ignornace and out of context interprtation is the source of problem here

1 - Prophet Mohammed (SAS) never beat a woman in his life and when he faced a rebellion by his wives he just left the house for them..
2- the beating which the verse point to must follow three conditions..1) doesn't leave marks 2) no face beating 3) no humilating beating.....and the tool which is used in beating (Siawak) is as a BIG as a tooth brush!!!....so its not even a beating by any standards....and even this beating (the toothbrush) doesn't come as the first solution

[Mary Carol]

Miriam do you not read your own holy book?

Yes.

What this man did was Islamically justified. What's all the fuss?

This man may have thought his behavior was Islamically justified.

All I can say that I left one husband within hours of merely being physically threatened, and I would do the same again with no reservation.

Neither myself or my children will ever live in an enviroment where threats or brutality are the norm.

[Al-Nasser]

Yes.



This man may have thought his behavior was Islamically justified.

All I can say that I left one husband within hours of merely being physically threatened, and I would do the same again with no reservation.

Neither myself or my children will ever live in an enviroment where threats or brutality are the norm.
Bravo :up:

[craig]

This behavior, sadly, is common in the Muslim world. The Koran does not treat women as equals, so is it any suprise that men do not either?





Miriam do you not read your own holy book?

[4:34] The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.


What this man did was Islamically justified. What's all the fuss?


sorry, was just going through the forums and came across this thread, i would wish to give inputs on this, but only if asked, however i just a question i'd like to ask....why was Beefcake's account disabled?

[Al-Nasser]

because he was already banned in a previous life

[sajid]

sorry, was just going through the forums and came across this thread, i would wish to give inputs on this, but only if asked, however i just a question i'd like to ask....why was Beefcake's account disabled?
user has been here i think 6 times before and been banned..based on the current new nickname and past posts (under his other name) it seems he is hear to stir up trouble again..unless he can prove himself...

[craig]

user has been here i think 6 times before and been banned..based on the current new nickname and past posts (under his other name) it seems he is hear to stir up trouble again..unless he can prove himself...
thanks guys

[sajid]

we dont usually ban just cos we dont agree with someone it dont work like that.....
but at times u gotta look at the past and see whether a user has come in with other names before been banned his repuation and that sorts and first impressions on first few points if he seems geniunie then thats fine if its just to poke fun or cause arguments usually they get their accounts disabled.....most people are legit and genunine but u get the odd one or 2

[Peace]

[4:34] ...If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them...Brutus does make a valid point!

Since the Qur'an itself allows a husband to hit his wife under 'certain' circumstances. It is then not surprising that some misguided men abuse this license and beat them at the drop of a hat!

I believe it is wrong to lay a finger on your wife under ANY circumstances.

This part of the Qur'an - that allows a man to hit his wife - was for another time and another age, when people behaved and reacted differently. It is simply unacceptable in todays world!

I don't believe for one minute that God wants us to hit anyone! Let alone our wife! But as with many situations in 7th Century Arabia - the society could not be transformed over night - and so strict rules and regulations were set in force - with the aim of eliminating such behaviour (an analogy is Slavery).

We must make it explicit in Shari'ah that hitting ones wife under ANY circumstances is now FORBIDDEN!!!!!!!

Otherwise such wife beaters will always abuse this sanction in the Qur'an!

[Al-Nasser]

This part of the Qur'an - that allows a man to hit his wife - was for another time and another age, when people behaved and reacted differently. It is simply unacceptable in todays world!

by your logic Hassan i believe that targeting the enemy civillians who pay taxes which support the enemy military power is very fine as the verses which forbid us from killing the enemy civillians was for another time and age where all the fighting was done by swords.

but...

...Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other?..
002:085

افتؤمنون ببعض الكتاب وتكفرون ببعض

[BobCleotisSmith]

ser has been here i think 6 times before and been banned..based on the current new nickname and past posts (under his other name) it seems he is hear to stir up trouble again..unless he can prove himself...

I've been at Ummah as long as you have Sajid. You can get banned for many things here, but it speaks volumes if you get banned for quoting the Koran( apparently that is what stirring up trouble means :) ).

This man may have thought his behavior was Islamically justified.
If I read the Koran, and the Koran says I can beat my wife, how is this not justified through Islam? It's as clear as day. And we all know that the Koran is the word of God, there is no room for interpretation.

Al Nasser makes a valid point as well, Hassan. If your going to purge the Islamic world of this type of behavior then you need to amend the Koran in the literal sense or interpret it. I'm simply playing devil's advocate because your odds are slim that your going to convinvce a fundie or otherwise that what he can read with his own eyes is misguided. He has the advantage here, not you. He has 1400 years of theological law to back him up. What do you have?

But good luck.

[Huja Usman]

Brutus does make a valid point!

Since the Qur'an itself allows a husband to hit his wife under 'certain' circumstances. It is then not surprising that some misguided men abuse this license and beat them at the drop of a hat!

I believe it is wrong to lay a finger on your wife under ANY circumstances.

This part of the Qur'an - that allows a man to hit his wife - was for another time and another age, when people behaved and reacted differently. It is simply unacceptable in todays world!

I don't believe for one minute that God wants us to hit anyone! Let alone our wife! But as with many situations in 7th Century Arabia - the society could not be transformed over night - and so strict rules and regulations were set in force - with the aim of eliminating such behaviour (an analogy is Slavery).

We must make it explicit in Shari'ah that hitting ones wife under ANY circumstances is now FORBIDDEN!!!!!!!

Otherwise such wife beaters will always abuse this sanction in the Qur'an!Instead of denying what Allah swt why dont you explain it? I was on a lecture and a non-muslim asked this question and qouted the Quran. Here is what the brother answerd.

First of all, Wen husband and wife has aguement the man makes udah to Allah that she changes, Ad if that doent happend when they are in bed he should turn his back (I translated this as not having sex) and the final position is not talking to her.

Afterall this happen the final thing for the husband to take miswak and tap her. AND NOT IT IS CLEARLY FORBIDDEN TO BEAT HER, ITS EVEN HARAM TO MAKE HER SKIN RED!.

To take the miswak (teeth brush) and tap her with it in the arms.

I ask Allah swt to guide you, It is ramadan and you are sitting here and potraying the noble sahaba radiallahu anhum as "wife beaters". WHen you say it you make it sound like Big arabs with big beards beating the hell of out of there wives.

Rasolilah tought us, If you take the Quran the verse that says kill the unbelivers some misguided persons think going to your kafir neighbor and shooting him. And ofcourse this is Haram. Becouse is twisting the Allahs message.

The Quran is the eternal book, It is Allahs words.

[sajid]

hmm how long u been at ummah for?

me been here since 1999!

seriously if u were before what was ur username?

just curious

[sajid]

ok if u behave and not make sweeping statments like u did before then ur ok..

ive said this before the way a people post will effect the way they are portrayed
for example under ur other alias one of the first posts u said

"lets discuss rape in shariah and all"

u see new guy (u may not be) first few posts and u post things like that

its this negativity u get from others..

sure if u are here for answers not a problem but the way ya ask questions can have an impact on the way u are portrayed..fair enough there are those long enought to know whether u are genuine or not but id say for Majority of posters starting like that ur gonna be labelled "the anti muslim"

bout what u said "speaking the Quran" yup u did quote but the way u made your comments about it seemed disrespectful.....

see what i mean?

[Peace]

by your logic Hassan i believe that targeting the enemy civillians who pay taxes which support the enemy military power is very fine as the verses which forbid us from killing the enemy civillians was for another time and age where all the fighting was done by swords.

but...



...Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other?..

002:085

افتؤمنون ببعض الكتاب وتكفرون ببعض



Yes you make a good point. There must be some acceptable framework and basis for re-interpretation - it cannot be simply up to the whim of any Tom, **** or Harry.

I have suggested before that the consensus of the scholars could be that basis and the framework could be a close exammination of the Qur'an and Sunnah and use of "Ijtihad" - using the very tools God gave us - "Aql" (Reasoning/intelligence) and "Fitrah" (nature/conscience).

If the scholars were to once again apply ijtihad and use sound reasoning and understanding of the conditions and situation then as compared to the conditions and situation now - I feel confident they could come to an agreement on what re-interpretations are necessary.

But unfortuantely - at the moment - few scholars are willing to take such bold steps.

But I am hopeful that this will happen eventually.

[Peace]

If your going to purge the Islamic world of this type of behavior then you need to amend the Koran in the literal sense or interpret it. I'm simply playing devil's advocate because your odds are slim that your going to convinvce a fundie or otherwise that what he can read with his own eyes is misguided. He has the advantage here, not you. He has 1400 years of theological law to back him up. What do you have?
Many Muslims are feeling this dilemma between traditional interpretations and the reality of a world that has changed radically from the sort of behaviour and circumstances that existed then.

There are many scholars who are re-interpreting issues such as this. I believe it is only a matter of time when the reality of what people feel inside translates into effective action to re-interpret the original texts.

[Peace]

First of all, When husband and wife has aguement the man makes duah to Allah that she changesWhat if she's right?

And if that doent happend when they are in bed he should turn his back (I translated this as not having sex)OK

After all this has happened, the final thing is for the husband to take miswak and tap herI have often tried to visualise this in reality. I mean after you have tried talking it through, prayed, even tried a form of seperation and nothing works, then you ask your wife to stand still for a moment while you tap her lightly on the arm????

I can just see her response:

"Ah! OK! Now I see the error of my ways. All the talking and praying and seperation, didn't work, but now that I feel that tap on my shoulder it has all become clear"

Be honest! Do you seriously think such a thing is reasonable!???????????


I often hear people say it just means a tap with a Miswak - and they bring their evidence - fine! OK! But that in itself is a re-interpretation! LOL!

The Qur'an says "WaDriboohunna" - Hit them - it says nothing about a Miswak - and many traditional scholars do not specify it has to be with a Miswak - some clearly agree that it could be hitting in the sense of a slap or a smack!

In 7th century Arabia where women were treated as chattles and were used to such treatment - and fear and punishment yeilded results - it is clear that the Qur'an actually came to REDUCE and DIMINISH such behaviour by setting a clear PROCEEDURE that had to be followed FIRST before resorting to such punishments.

The Qur'an did not invent such a punishment - it merely sought to control and set limits to it (and eventually get rid of it imho)

Today such a smack, Slap (or Tap with a Miswak) would bring nothing but contempt and humilation to the wife.

In practical terms alone it simply would not work.

We live in a different age.

And Ramadan is the best time to really REFLECT on God's book - not just recite it - but THINK!

Time to wake up!

[Mr_Jailer]

and if she can, to get some brothers to kick his butt
I'll do it... the second I've opened my fast :@

[Owl Mirror]

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Where do men, let alone Muslim men get the idea that the oppression of women is ok?

Directly from the lips of Allah, via Muhammad !
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see illconduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds,
(and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance).
Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.


The guy is obviously a good Muslim who was only adhering to Allah's message and law. :rolleyes:

[seven]

http://www.sunnipath.com/images/Q_Image.jpg1. Does the Arabic word 'daraba' necessarily mean "violent or intense or repeated striking?"

http://www.sunnipath.com/images/bism01.jpg



http://www.sunnipath.com/images/A_Image.jpg No.

Jurists routinely use the expression "daraba al-ma' `ala wajhihi" - lit. strike water upon the face, for someone accomplishing the first rukn of wudu' (washing the face).

Also in Arabic daraba al-ard "to strike the earth" - as in verse 4:94 {When you strike the earth in the cause of Allah} - means to travel, i.e. walking with a staff.


2. Has the phrase 'wadribuhunna' in 4:34 normally been interpreted as a command or has it been interpreted as more of a recommendation?

Not even a recommendation. Al-Razi said in his Tafsir on 4:34 (1308/1891 edition 3:222): "Al-Shaf`i said: 'wa al-darbu mubah, wa al-tarku afdal - and hitting is permitted, but not hitting is preferable.'"

NB: Al-Shafi`i's position is therefore that it is "permissible", NOT "just barely permissible" as misrepresented by Muhammad Asad. [_The Message of the Qur'an_, translation and commentary of the Qur'an by Muhammad Asad (1980), footnote 45, p. 109 (one of the commentaries on verse 4:34).]

The basic rule (asl) is strict prohibition, followed by dispensation (rukhsa) as explicited by the Prophet in the hadith below, which al-Shafi`i took for his evidence in his ruling:

The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Do not hit the maidservants of Allah!" (la tadribu ima' Allah). Then `Umar (RA) came to the Prophet (pbuh) and said [NB: by way of exaggeration, cf. `Awn al-Ma`bud]: "The women are rebelling (dha'irna) against their husbands!" So the Prophet (pbuh) GAVE A DISPENSATION (rakhkhasa) to beat them. Whereupon women started pouring in to see the family of the Messenger of Allah and complain about their husbands. Seeing this, the Prophet (pbuh)said: "Many women have poured in to see the family of Muhammad, complaining of their husbands, and *the latter are certainly not the best of you*." Narrated from Iyas ibn `Abd Allah ibn Abi Dhubab by al-Shafi`i in his Musnad, Abu Dawud, al-Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, al-Tabarani in al-Kabir, and al-Hakim. Al-Nawawi and al-Suyuti graded it a sound (sahih) narration in Riyad al-Salihin [RS-281] and al-Jami` al-Saghir respectively.

In a version cited by al-Razi in his Tafsir, (3:222) `Umar also states: "We the Quraysh used to have our men holding sway over our women. Then we came to Madina and found that their women held sway over their men. Then our women mixed with their women until they rebelled (dha'irna) against their husbands. So I came to the Prophet (pbuh) and told him: 'The women are rebelling against their husbands!' So he (pbuh) GAVE PERMISSION (adhina) to beat them. Whereupon, etc."

Some people who were influenced by feminism until they forgot the Adab of Islam, tend to badmouth Sayyidina `Umar for what they term his mistreatment of women. While it is true that the Arabs in general and Sayyidina `Umar in particular had a very high sense of self-respect (ghira) as attested by no less than the Prophet (pbuh) (in the hadith where he mentions seeing `Umar's palace in Paradise), nevertheless we should observe Adab so as not to commit a sin whenever mentioning the Prophet (pbuh), his Family, and His Companions, indeed all Muslims as Allah (SWT) made the honor of a Muslim as sacrosanct as his life and property.

The Prophet (pbuh) also expressed astonishment at the cruelty of certain men when he said: "Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" (Bukhari and Muslim).

The crafty little anti-Islam page on domini.org states:

"The Qur'an states:

"Righteous women are therefore obedient, And those you fear may be rebellious (nushuz) admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them."

"Some translators add the word lightly after 'beat them' in Q 4:34. Others like Mohammed Pickthall and Rodwell translate the word 'edrebouhon - beat them' as 'scourge them'. [...] But "a beating without causing injury" (agreed upon)

"So the man has the right to beat his rebellious wife as long as that beating is not like the whipping of the slave and will not result in injury."

Of course the above is false and tendentious but couched in the syrupy style typical of missionaries.

The hadith in Muslim states that the Prophet (pbuh) in his Farewell Pilgrimage said: "Lo! My last recommendation to you is that you should TREAT WOMEN WELL. Truly they are your helpmates, and you have no right over them beyond that - EXCEPT IF THEY COMMIT A MANIFEST INDECENCY (fahisha mubina = adultery). If they do, then refuse to share their beds and beat them WITHOUT INDECENT VIOLENCE (fadribu hunna darban ghayra mubarrih*). Then, if they obey you, do not show them hostility any longer. Lo! you have a right over your women and they have a right over you. Your right over your women is that they not allow whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house. While their right over them is that you treat them excellently in their garb and provision."

*** Then he took the covenant from them and from us that they and we all heard and understood this from him, respectively, directly and indirectly, with his forefinger raised, and said: "O Allah! bear witness." ***

After this, whatever Muslim man derogates to the recommendation of the Prophet (pbuh) has violated his covenant with the Prophet and shall be called to account for it; and whoever of the non-Muslim men or women claims - even the Archbishop of Canterbury and his wife - that beating women is allowed in Islam, has belied the Divine witness invoked by the Prophet and shall be called to account for it in the Divine Court.

*"Mubarrih" is defined in al-Mawrid as "violent, intense, severe, acute, sharp, excruciating, tormenting, agonizing." Qatada said as narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (5:68): "Ghayr mubarrih means ghayr sha'in = not disgraceful/ outrageous/ obscene/ indecent [beating]." Muhammad Asad translates it over-figuratively as "not causing pain."

3. What is the evidence for saying that this 'striking' is in fact only supposed to be carried out with something small, like a miswak?

`Ata' said: "I asked Ibn `Abbas: 'What is the hitting that is ghayr al-mubarrih?' He replied: '[With] the siwak and the like'." Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (Dar al-Fikr reprint 5:68).

Al-Razi (3:222) mentions that as a rule (a) it must be a light beating and (b) the face must be avoided. He added that certain of the Shafi`i jurists said "a coiled scarf (mindil malfuf) (NB: NOT "a folded handkerchief" as mistranslated by Asad) or his hand may be used but not a whip nor a stick."

4. Where is the hadith found in which the Prophet (pbuh) said to a servant-girl who had been extremely late "If I were not afraid of Allah, I would hit you with this" referring to a miswak?

Ibn Sa`d in al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, Al-Tabarani in al-Mu`jam al-Kabir, Abu Ya`la in his Musnad, Abu Nu`aym in Hilyat al-Awliya' and al-Hakim in al-Mustadrak narrated from Umm Salama: "The Prophet (pbuh)was in my house and there was a siwak in his hand. He called for Wasifa [the servant-girl] to come to him or to her [i.e. to serve Umm Salama] but she tarried until anger was visible on his face. So Umm Salama went out to her and found her playing with an animal. She said to her: "You are playing while the Messenger of Allah is calling you?" She replied: "No, by the one who sent you with truth! I did not hear you." Whereupon the Prophet (pbuh) said: "Were it not for fear of exaction (qawad) on the Day of Resurrection, I should surely make you sore (la'awja`tuki) with this toothpick."

Al-Munawi in Fayd al-Qadir mentioned that al-Mundhiri and al-Haythami declared its chain of transmission good. Al-Suyuti graded the hadith "fair" (hasan) in al-Jami` al-Saghir. Al-Muttaqi cited it in Kanz al-`Ummal (#39820, 39821, 39829).

5. What is the exact meaning of 'nushuz'? It is translated as disobedience, but there seem to be others who think it means something more like 'ill-will' or 'hostility' or 'ill-treatment'.

It depends on context and how these terms are themselves understood by those who use them. Ill-treatment on the part of a wife to her husband, for example, is a bit different from ill-treatment on the part of a grocer to his customer.

Nushuz is translated "Recalcitrance, disobedience, violation of marital duties on the part of the wife" in al-Mawrid Ar-Eng Dictionary.

Nushuz in the verse, as shown, is an euphemism for adultery because her primary marital duty is spelled out in the hadith as "not allowing whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house." Al-Maziri also said that another interpretation of the words in that hadith said it referred to a woman sitting in seclusion with a stranger inside her husband's house. (Al-Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim.)

6. Is it not true that slapping someone on the face is not allowed in Islam? Is there a consensus on this point?

It is a transgression requiring exaction (qawad) which can be changed into monetary compensation (diyya) in the Four Schools, and Allah knows best.

Examples: (a) the famous hadith from Mu`awiya ibn al-Hakam in Sahih Muslim of the black woman slave whom her owner slaps and is then obligated to manumit as her compensation.

(b) Also in Sahih Muslim, the example of Suwayd ibn Muqarrin who saw a man slap his female slave and told him: "Do you not know that the face is taboo? (al-sura muharrama) I, whom you see in front of you, the seventh of my brothers, was with the Messenger of Allah and we only had one servant; one of us slapped him, so the Messenger of Allah commanded us to free him."

(c) A man from the Ansar insulted al-`Abbas's father who lived in the Time of Ignorance, whereupon al-`Abbas slapped him. The man returned to his people who said: "By Allah, we shall slap him just as he slapped him," and they girded their weapons. News of this reached the Prophet who ascended the pulpit and said: "O people! Who among the dwellers of the earth is deemed most honorable in the presence of Allah?" They said, "You." He continued: "And al-`Abbas is part of me, and I am part of him. Do not insult our dead, thereby harming our living." The people then came to the Prophet and said: "O Messenger of Allah! We seek refuge in Allah from your anger." Narrated from Ibn `Abbas by Ahmad and al-Nasa'i with a sound chain according to al-`Iraqi in Takhrij Ahadith al-Ihya', also al-Tabarani in al-Mu`jam al-Kabir.

Al-Sindi in his commentary on al-Nasa'i's Sunan said: "Since he had begun with the insult, the slap received was not to obtain retaliation."

Note that the directive of the above hadith was royally ignored by the Wahhabi preacher of the Prophet's Mosque in Madina, Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri, who used to shout at the top of his lungs, right next to al-Mustafa?: "The father and mother of the Prophet are in hellfire! The father and mother of the Prophet are in hellfire!" and so until his death last year. I wonder, should we believe that Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri and his parents are in Paradise, while the parents of the Prophet Muhammad are in hellfire? Hasbuna Allah.

The ruling of automatic manumission for striking a slave in the face is established by the following hadith of the Prophet:

(d) "Whoever strikes his slave in the face or beats him unjustly, his expiation is to manumit him." Narrated from Ibn `Umar by Muslim in his Sahih.

The ruling that the face is taboo is established by the following hadith of the Prophet:

(e) "If you fight your brother, avoid striking the face, for Allah created Adam in his image." Narrated from Abu Hurayra by Muslim and al-Bukhari, the latter without the words "your brother." If this is forbidden while fighting or when interacting with a slave, then a fortiori it is forbidden outside fighting and with one's wife.

Do not be misled by the Satanic whispers of domini.org which states:

"The occasion in which Q 4:34 was revealed sheds more light on the meaning of that verse. Most commentators mention that the above verse was revealed in connection with a woman who complained to Mohammad that her husband slapped her on the face (which was still marked by the slap). At first the Prophet said to her: 'Get even with him', but then added : 'Wait until I think about it.' Later on the above verse was revealed, after which the Prophet said: 'We wanted one thing but Allah wanted another, and what Allah wanted is best.' [Razi, At-tafsir al-Kabir, on Q. 4:34.]"

Crafty, crafty, and all for what? lies. Ars longa, vita brevis!

The commentators also mention that this report is narrated only from al-Hasan al-Basri who is NOT a Companion. The most that can be said of it here is that it is a weak, isolated, mursal Tabi`i report that does not have probative force.

What is more, al-Hasan himself flatly contradicts the above as he reportedly explained {wadribu hunna} to mean: "hitting that is not obscene; hitting that *does not leave a trace*" (darban ghayra mubarrih ghayra mu'aththir). Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (Dar al-Fikr reprint 5:68).

And Allah Most High knows best.

{Wa Makaru wa Makara Allah wAllahu Khayru-l-Makirin}

{Yuridun an yutfi'u Nur Allah bi Afwahihim wa Ya'ba Allah

Illa an Yatimma Nurahu wa law Kariha al-Kafirun}

Blessings and peace of Allah on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions.

Hajj Gibril

GF Haddad

(Source: http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/fiqha_e32.html (http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/fiqha_e32.html))

[Ebony]

Its weird how people encourage their children not to resort to physical violence, get into physical fights with other children yet its fine to beat the c**p out the wife should she show a bit of cheek/be cheeky, argumentative or rude (?)

hmm..then people wonder why society is in the state it is.

Ws

[Raven]

What if she's right?
Impossible.

(j/k ladies)

[Tahiyah]

these verses from the Holy Quran are always misunderstood by so many. how can you expect non-muslims to understand such verses if even muslims themselves cannot understand and continue to abuse Islam?

islam does not and never has supported domestic violence

we are told to follow the prophets sunnah, (ways of life,) for the best success.

the prophet (saw) never raised his hand to any woman or child.

[Peace]

When Islam came it came to a people who were barbaric, ignorant and deeply entrenched in customs and practises that could not possibly be changed overnight. The Qur'an did not invent their behaviour - but sought to control and change it gradually with wisdom.

The prophet never laid a finger on his wives and always showed gentleness, kindness and great patience towards them.

He said:

"The Best of you is the best towards his wife!"

We must now make it explicitly forbidden in Islamic Law to hit ones wife under ANY circumstances!

It is simply not acceptable - full stop!

[Sultan]

The wifebeater should have been married to a moroccan woman!

And believe me, moroccan women will hospitalise any man who makes her mad!

As I know too well................!

[Makki]

why cant wife beaters use their power to protect their wives? use their hands to give presents to them and use their arms to give them big hugs?

at the end of the day it is down to individual morals what people decide to do, muslim or not

[Sultan]

Yeah Hassan, but what about husband beaters?



You never hear about them!



But they do exist!

[amal]

lol Sultan - a woman never can put in bed a man

[Sultan]

lol Sultan - a woman never can put in bed a manNot unless they clunk them on the head with a club or a rolling pin!

[jamila]

The ranter who say the Qur'an must change it's rulling don't seem to have read Seven's post.

[ThE aPpReNtIcE]

i ve seen Moroccan woman in action lol..not pretty

[Peace]

The ranter who say the Qur'an must change it's rulling don't seem to have read Seven's post.I assume I am the ranter to which you refer sis ;) Actually I did read Seven's post - and a very good post it is - but it still leaves permission for a man to tap/hit his wife.

This is unacceptable today and imho was never meant to be implemented forever - but was only an instruction that was right for it's particular circumstances at the time.

And we need to make it very clear that NOW - under no circumstances is a husband allowed to hit his wife!

[Peace]

how can you forbid and make unlawful what has been made permissible in the Quran?!
The Qur'an tells the Muslim fighters that they must give one fifth of the spoils they gain in battle to the prophet to distribute amongst the poor and needy:

And you should know that a fifth of the spoils you get hold of are for Allah and the Prophet and the near relatives and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer. (Anfal verse 41)

This is exactly what the prophet did in the early battles of the Muslims - he allowed the Mujahidin to have their share of the spoils after taking one fifth for the poor and needy.

After the prophet died and during the reign of the second Caliph Umar - he felt that the Muslims in general needed to benefit from the spoils of war and so decided all should go to the BaytulMal and witheld the share of the Mujahideen.

How could Umar forbid and make unlawful what has been made permissible in the Quran and by the Prophet?????????????????????

The answer is he did not - he used his Ijtihad - knowing full well that some of the commands in the Qur'an were for specific circumstances and that when these changed - then we must use Ijtihad!

Simple!

[abdulhakeem]

What are the rights of the husband and what are the rights of the wife?

Question:

what are a wife's rights on her husband according the Quran and Sunnah? or what are a husbands duties to his wife and viceversa?

Answer:

<BIG>Praise be to Allaah.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>Islam has enjoined upon the husband duties towards his wife, and vice versa, and among these duties are some which are shared by both husband and wife.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>We will mention – by the help of Allaah – some of the texts of the Qur’aan and Sunnah which have to do with the duties of the spouses towards one another, quoting also from the commentaries and views of the scholars.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>Firstly:</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>The rights of the wife which are hers alone:</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>The wife has financial rights over her husband, which are the mahr (dowry), spending and accommodation.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>And she has non-financial rights, such as fair division between co-wives, being treated in a decent and reasonable manner, and not being treated in a harmful way by her husband.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>1. Financial rights</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>(a) The mahr (dowry). This is the money to which the wife is entitled from her husband when the marriage contract is completed or when the marriage is consummated. It is a right which the man is obliged to pay to the woman. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“And give to the women (whom you marry) their Mahr (obligatory bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) with a good heart” [al-Nisaa’ 4:4]</BIG><BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>The prescription of the mahr demonstrates the seriousness and importance of the marriage-contract, and is a token of respect and honour to the woman.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>The mahr is not a condition or essential part of the marriage-contract, according to the majority of fuqahaa’; rather it is one of the consequences of the contract. If the marriage-contract is done without any mention of the mahr, it is still valid, according to the consensus of the majority, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“There is no sin on you, if you divorce women while yet you have not touched (had sexual relation with) them, nor appointed unto them their Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage)” [al-Baqarah 2:236]</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>The fact that divorce is permitted before consummation of the marriage or before stipulating the mahr indicates that it is permissible not to stipulate the mahr in the marriage-contract.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>If the mahr is stipulated, it becomes obligatory upon the husband; if it is not stipulated, then he must give the mahr that is given to women of similar status to his wife.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>(b) Spending. The scholars of Islam are agreed that it is obligatory for husbands to spend on their wives, on the condition that the wife make herself available to her husband. If she refuses him or rebels, then she is not entitled to that spending.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>The reason why it is obligatory to spend on her is that the woman is available only to her husband, because of the marriage contract, and she is not allowed to leave the marital home except with his permission. So he has to spend on her and provide for her, and this is in return for her making herself available to him for his pleasure.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>What is meant by spending is providing what the wife needs of food and accommodation. She has the right to these things even if she is rich, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“but the father of the child shall bear the cost of the mother’s food and clothing on a reasonable basis” [al-Baqarah 2:233]</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“Let the rich man spend according to his means; and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allaah has given him” [al-Talaaq 65:7]</BIG><BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>From the Sunnah:</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>The Prophet <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Hind bint ‘Utbah – the wife of Abu Sufyaan – who had complained that he did not spend on her: “Take what is sufficient for you and your children, on a reasonable basis.”</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah said: “Hind bint ‘Utbah, the wife of Abu Sufyaan, entered upon the Messenger of Allaah <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, Abu Sufyaan is a stingy man who does not spend enough on me and my children, except for what I take from his wealth without his knowledge. Is there any sin on me for doing that?’ The Messenger of Allaah <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘Take from his wealth on a reasonable basis, only what is sufficient for you and your children.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5049; Muslim, 1714)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>It was narrated from Jaabir that the Messenger of Allaah <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said in his Farewell Sermon:</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have rights over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed whom you do not like. But if they do that, you can chastise them but not severely. Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner” (Narrated by Muslim, 1218)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>(c) Accommodation. This is also one of the wife’s rights, which means that her husband should prepare for her accommodation according to his means and ability. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“Lodge them (the divorced women) where you dwell, according to your means” [al-Talaaq 65:6]</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>2. Non-financial rights</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>(i) Fair treatment of co-wives. One of the rights that a wife has over her husband is that she and her co-wives should be treated equally, if the husband has other wives, with regard to nights spent with them, spending and clothing.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>(ii) Kind treatment. The husband must have a good attitude towards his wife and be kind to her, and offer her everything that may soften her heart towards him, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“and live with them honourably” [al-Nisaa’ 4:19]</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable” [al-Baqarah 2:228]</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>From the Sunnah:</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allaah <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Be kind to women.’”(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3153; Muslim, 1468).</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>There follow examples of the kind treatment of the Prophet <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) towards his wives – for he is the best example:</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>1. It was narrated from Zaynab bint Abi Salamah that Umm Salamah said: “I got my menses when I was lying with the Prophet <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) under a single woollen sheet. I slipped away and put on the clothes I usually wore for menstruation. The Messenger of Allaah <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to me, ‘Have you got your menses?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ Then he called me and made me lie with him under the same sheet.”</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>She said: And she told me that the Prophet <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to kiss her when he was fasting, and the Prophet <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and I used to do ghusl to cleanse ourselves from janaabah from one vessel.(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 316; Muslim, 296)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>2. It was narrated that ‘Urwah ibn al-Zubayr said: “ ‘Aa’ishah said: ‘By Allaah, I saw the Messenger of Allaah <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) standing at the door of my apartment when the Abyssinians were playing with their spears in the Mosque of the Messenger of Allaah <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He covered me with his cloak so that I could watch their games, then he stood there for my sake until I was the one who had had enough. So you should appreciate the fact that young girls like to have fun.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 443; Muslim, 892)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>3. It was narrated from ‘Aa’ishah the Mother of the Believers (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Messenger of Allaah <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to pray sitting down; he would recite Qur’aan when he was sitting down, then when there were thirty or forty aayahs left, he would stand up and recite them standing up. Then he did rukoo’, then sujood; then he would do likewise in the second rak’ah. When he had finished his prayer, he would look, and if I was awake he would talk with me, and if I was asleep he would lie down.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>(</BIG><BIG>Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1068)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>(c) Not harming one’s wife.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>This is one of the basic principles of Islam. Because harming others is haraam in the case of strangers, it is even more so in the case of harming one’s wife.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>It was narrated from ‘Ubaadah ibn al-Saamit that the Messenger of Allaah <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ruled, “There should be no harming nor reciprocating harm.” (Narrated by Ibn Maajah,, 2340)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Imaam Ahmad, al-Haakim, Ibn al-Salaah and others. See [i]Khalaasat al-Badr al-Muneer, 2/438.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>Among the things to which the Lawgiver drew attention in this matter is the prohibition of hitting or beating in a severe manner.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>It was narrated from Jaabir that the Messenger of Allaah <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said in his Farewell Sermon:</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have rights over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed whom you do not like. But if they do that, you can chastise them but not severely. Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner” (Narrated by Muslim, 1218)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>Secondly:</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>The husband’s rights over his wife.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>The rights of the husband over his wife are among the greatest rights; indeed his rights over her are greater than her rights over him, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them [al-Baqarah 2:228]</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>al-Jassaas said: Allaah tells us in this aayah that each of the spouses has rights over the other, and that the husband has one particular right over his wife which she does not have over him.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>Ibn al-‘Arabi said: this text states that he has some preference over her with regard to rights and duties of marriage.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>These rights include:</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>(a) The obligation of obedience. Allaah has made the man a [i]qawwaam (protector and maintainer) of the woman by commanding, directing and taking care of her, just as guardians take care of their charges, by virtue of the physical and mental faculties that Allaah has given only to men and the financial obligations that He has enjoined upon them. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means” [al-Nisaa’ 4:34]</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>‘Ali ibn Abi Talhah said, narrating from Ibn ‘Abbaas: “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women” means, they are in charge of them, i.e., she should obey him in matters of obedience that Allaah has enjoined upon her, and obey him by treating his family well and taking care of his wealth. This was the view of Muqaatil, al-Saddi and al-Dahhaak.(Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/492)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>(b) Making herself available to her husband. One of the rights that the husband has over his wife is that he should be able to enjoy her (physically). If he marries a woman and she is able to have intercourse, she is obliged to submit herself to him according to the contract, if he asks her. That is after he gives her the immediate mahr, and gives her some time – two or three days, if she asks for that – to sort herself out, because that is something that she needs, and because that is not too long and is customary.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>If a wife refuses to respond to her husband’s request for intercourse, she has done something haraam and has committed a major sin, unless she has a valid shar’i excuse such as menses, obligatory fasting, sickness, etc.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allaah <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘When a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, and he went to sleep angry with her, the angels will curse her until morning.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3065; Muslim, 1436)</BIG><BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>(c) Not admitting anyone whom the husband dislikes. One of the rights that the husband has over his wife is that she should not permit anyone whom he dislikes to enter his house.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permitted for a woman to fast when her husband is present without his permission, or to admit anyone into his house without his permission. And whatever she spends (in charity) of his wealth without his consent, ….” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4899; Muslim, 1026)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>It was narrated from Sulaymaan ibn ‘Amr ibn al-Ahwas: my father told me that he was present at the Farewell Pilgrimage (Hujjat al-Wadaa’) with the Messenger of Allaah <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He [the Prophet <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] praised and glorified Allaah, then he preached a sermon and said: “Treat women kindly, for they are prisoners and you have no other power over them than that, if they are guilty of open lewdness, then refuse to share their beds, and hit them, but not severely. But if they return to obedience, (then) do not seek means (of annoyance) against them. You have rights over your women and your women have rights over you. Your rights over your women are that they should not let anyone whom you dislike sit on your bed and they should not let anyone whom you dislike enter your house. Their rights over you are that you should feed and clothe them well.”</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1163 – he said this is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. Also narrated by Ibn Maajah, 1851)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>It was narrated that Jaabir said: [the Prophet] <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have rights over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed [i.e., not let them into the house] whom you do not like. But if they do that, you can chastise them but not severely. Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner” (Narrated by Muslim, 1218)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>(d) Not going out of the house except with the husband’s permission. One of the rights of the husband over his wife is that she should not go out of the house except with his permission.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>The Shaafa’is and Hanbalis said: she does not have the right to visit (even) her sick father except with the permission of her husband, and he has the right to prevent her from doing that… because obedience to the husband is obligatory, and it is not permitted to neglect an obligatory action for something that is not obligatory.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>(e) Discipline. The husband has the right to discipline his wife if she disobeys him in something good, not if she disobeys him in something sinful, because Allaah has enjoined disciplining women by forsaking them in bed and by hitting them, when they do not obey.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>The Hanafis mentioned four situations in which a husband is permitted to discipline his wife by hitting her. These are: not adorning herself when he wants her to; not responding when he calls her to bed and she is taahirah (pure, i.e., not menstruating); not praying; and going out of the house without his permission.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>The evidence that it is permissible to discipline one's wife includes the aayahs (interpretation of the meaning):</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG></BIG>“As to those women on whose part you see ill‑conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful)” [al-Nisaa’ 4:34]</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“O you who believe! Ward off yourselves and your families against a Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones” [al-Tahreem 66:6]</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>Ibn Katheer said:</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>Qutaadah said: you should command them to obey Allaah, and forbid them to disobey Allaah; you should be in charge of them in accordance with the command of Allaah, and instruct them to follow the commands of Allaah, and help them to do so. If you see any act of disobedience towards Allaah, then stop them from doing it and rebuke them for that.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>This was also the view of al-Dahhaak and Muqaatil: that the duty of the Muslim is to teach his family, including his relatives and his slaves, that which Allaah has enjoined upon them and that which He has forbidden them. (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 4/392)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>(f) The wife serving her husband. There is a great deal of evidence (daleel) for this, some of which has been mentioned above.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said:</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>She is obliged to serve her husband according to what is reasonable among people of similar standing. That varies according to circumstances: the way in which a Bedouin woman serves (her husband) will not be like the way of a town-dweller, and the way of a strong woman will not be like the way of a weak woman. (al-Fataawa al-Kubraa, 4/561)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>(g) Submitting herself to him. Once the conditions of the marriage-contract have been fulfilled and it is valid, then the woman is obliged to submit herself to her husband and allow him to enjoy her (physically), because once the contract is completed, he is allowed in return to enjoy her, and the wife is entitled to the compensation which is the mahr.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>(h) The wife should treat her husband in a good manner, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable” [al-Baqarah 2:228]</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>Al-Qurtubi said:</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>It was also narrated from him – i.e., Ibn ‘Abbaas – that this means: they have the right to good companionship and kind and reasonable treatment from their husbands just as they are obliged to obey the commands of their husbands.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>And it was said that they have the right that their husbands should not harm them, and their husbands have a similar right over them. This was the view of al-Tabari.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>Ibn Zayd said: You should fear Allaah concerning them just as they should fear Allaah concerning you.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>The meanings are similar, and the aayah includes all of that in the rights and duties of marriage.(Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 3/123-124)</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG><BIG>And Allaah knows best.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG></BIG>Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com (http://www.islam-qa.com))

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=10680&dgn=4

[abdulhakeem]

Her husband beats her severely

Question:

I am a 22 year old Muslim born female in in America
I have been married to my husband
I married him because I thought that he was a good Muslim brother who cared about spreading ISlam and helping to raise the Kalimah of Allah -swt- by helping Muslims
I wanted to break off the marriage when we were still engaged about 4 years ago because he was saying mean things to me, hurting my feelings, and emotionally abusive.
But he promised that after we got married he would be nice to me and that his harshness was the result of him having a bad job. Since Muslims are supposed to keep their promises, I believed and trusted him, and agreed to marry him.
Since being married, he has gotten worse and has been physically abusive, even punching me and choking me.
My parents finally found out about 8 months ago. I left him to my parents house at that time for a few weeks. They convinced me that i should give him another chance because any other man i would marry would probably be even worse. They say that all of the other divorced women end up with worse husbands and situations.
He came back apologizing and promising to change his ways of saying hurtful things, being picky, and to stop the abuse. The agreemant was that I would go back to him to see if he really has changed.
After going back to him, he only changed for a short while.
He has been verbally and emotionally abusive. He has been physically abusive to a small degree. He has pushed me lightly and smacked me lightly. Since this is how his abuse started when we first got married from light to harder and harder, I decided a couple of months later that he has not changed and told my parents that.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

We ask Allaah to help you cope with the calamities that have befallen you, and to grant you the reward of those who are patient, for He is Most Generous, Most Kind.

The husband should realize that he is a shepherd and is responsible for his flock. Allaah has enjoined upon him to treat them in a good and proper manner and to treat his family kindly. Our Prophet <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of you is the one who is best towards his wife, and I am the best of you towards my wives.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3895; Ibn Maajah, 1977; classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami, 3314). Part of that good and kind treatment means not beating one’s wife in a severe manner and not insukting or cursing her. He should realize that this is a violation of the trust with which Allaah has entrusted him.

We have heard that many people have a hard time finding a job by which they may earn their livelihood, and that it may take a long time to find a suitable job. We have heard that many of these people oppress their wives and beat them, as if they are the cause of what is happening to them. It is as if they use this situation to justify their abhorrent actions. These men have to fear Allaah and to realize that they are the ones who are most in need of obeying Allaah and keeping away from haraam things; they should not commit sins then justify that for themselves.

The Muslim has to realize that he is in the world of trials and tests, so he must adorn himself with patience in bearing all the things that happen to him in this life. He should turn to Allaah by praying to Him to relieve him of the disasters that have befallen him, for He is the One Who relieves worry and distress, and Who answers the prayer of the one who has been wronged, may He be glorified and praised. Nothing is hidden from Him and there is nothing that He is unable to do in the heavens or on earth, to Him be praise in the beginning and at the end.

He is the most generous of those who are generous, and His slave does not seek to draw close to Him but He is even swifter in drawing close to His slave. Al-Bukhaari (6856) and Muslim (4832) narrated in their Saheehs that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet <!--#include virtual="/saws.htm" -->(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah says: ‘I am as My slave thinks I am. I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assembly better than it. And if he draws near to Me a hand’s span, I draw near to him an arm’s length; and if he draws near to Me an arm’s length, I draw near to him a fathom’s length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.’”

In your case, my sister, Allaah is testing you by means of a man whose behaviour and attitude are bad. Based on what has been mentioned in the question, it is permissible for you to ask for a divorce (this is what is called khula’), because living with this man and anyone like him is something that is unbearable. Perhaps Allaah will compensate you with someone better than this man. If you cannot find another husband, then staying without a husband in your parents’ house, where you will be cared for and respected, will be better for you than staying with this man, so long as you do not fear that you will be tempted or will fall into haraam things. But if you fear that you may be tempted, then being patient and bearing worldly troubles by staying with this man will be better for you than having to bear the punishment of Allaah.

The reasons for which it is permissible for a woman to seek divorce (khula’) from her husband are mentioned in Question 1859 on this site.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com (http://www.islam-qa.com))

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=13803&dgn=4

[AbuMubarak]

Brutus does make a valid point!

Since the Qur'an itself allows a husband to hit his wife under 'certain' circumstances. It is then not surprising that some misguided men abuse this license and beat them at the drop of a hat!

I believe it is wrong to lay a finger on your wife under ANY circumstances.

This part of the Qur'an - that allows a man to hit his wife - was for another time and another age, when people behaved and reacted differently. It is simply unacceptable in todays world!

I don't believe for one minute that God wants us to hit anyone! Let alone our wife! But as with many situations in 7th Century Arabia - the society could not be transformed over night - and so strict rules and regulations were set in force - with the aim of eliminating such behaviour (an analogy is Slavery).

We must make it explicit in Shari'ah that hitting ones wife under ANY circumstances is now FORBIDDEN!!!!!!!

Otherwise such wife beaters will always abuse this sanction in the Qur'an!here we go again, more kufr being spouted

next time PEACE encourages ANY CHANGING OF QURAN, peace will be banned

[amal]

Cw i think its more about to educate people ,both man and woman, about respect and what means to be married. Many people getting marry and have no clue what it means that - a couple life. From here its very easy to missinterpret everything.
I not approve the beating because are other solutions much better. And once you slaped him or her ,he /she will never forget.

[Sabeeluna]

Whoever says that the interpretaton of previous scholars and sahabah or even the prophet (saws)'s interpretation doesn't apply in our time is deeply misguided, and should repent. Islam is for all times and all places. If the society around you becomes far from Islam, then you don't change yourself just to fit in with filth, you aim to change society!!!

The Prophet (saws), said: "The best of people is my generation, then those who come after them, then those who come after them (i.e. the first three generations of Muslims)." [Reported by Bukhari and Muslim - Mutawaatir].

[Ebony]

I don't see how hitting the wife is going to 'discipline' her, its more of a humiliation and is bound to affect the relationship between the spouses.

Actually, what if the wife hits him back? would she be reprimanded for it, since he was just doing that which is within his right (so it would seem)?


Ws

[abdulhakeem]

it just reminds me of those musketeer movies when an insulted or dishonoured person takes of his gloves and hits the offenders face with it (rather as a symbolic act than really hurting him)

usually it ends in a duell. they are supposed to meet the next day at sunrise and the offender has the choice of the weapons.

[Peace]

here we go again, more kufr being spouted

next time PEACE encourages ANY CHANGING OF QURAN, peace will be banned

I don't like threats - it makes me want to do exactly what you don't want me to do!

So let me state very clearly that I believe issues such as Hitting ones wife, Slavery, stoning and Death sentence for someone who excersise his freedom to choose whatever religion he believes were not meant to be applied at all times in all places - and that they were specific to the conditions and circumstances of the time.

I don't believe in changing Qur'an - but I do believe our scholars should do what Umar did, which is trying to understand the underlying wisdom of the Qur'an in dealing with events in ways that were appropriate at the time and using Ijtihad to keep to the true 'spirit' of the Qur'an.

If you think I am doing wrong by saying this then ban me!

[H25]

Salam Alaikum,

Thank you Haju Mehmet for pointing out exactly what the quran says.
I have to say to anyone who shares the opinion of BobCleoSmith... that Allah knows what you do and what you think. You should not really fear any of our opinions in this forum but fear Allah cause Allah knows. He is the Al-mighty the all-knowing.

For others who share your view, I suggest you open your mind to what the quran is actually saying. However if you chose the path you are in right now - it will only guide you to mischief.

You are personally giving all muslims a bad name by that statement, especially in the political situation we are in now. Now is the time for other religions to see that Islam is an ideology and the only way of life.
So we actually do not need people such as yourself making false statements about islam. It is very haram to say the quran is saying something even when it's not.

All I have to say to you is open your mind

[Mary Carol]

technically he didn't encourage changing the Quran.. but rather changing Shariah so that it makes unlawful something that has been made lawful.. and I'm sure he knows doing such a thing is explicitly forbidden

but he has based it on the above example he gave about war booty, I do no know about that, so it would be nice if someone could shed more light on it

I didn't realize that calling for Ijtihad was a bannable offense here at Ummah.com.

Could one of the admins please point out where in the rules that is stated?

[Owl Mirror]

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If you think I am doing wrong by saying this then ban me!

I'm not quite sure if this threat of banishment is geared toward Muslims only but, I agree with your stance Peace.

I do also believe Islam is due for an update to it's structure and compliance with the laws set forth in earlier times. Islam would benefit greatly by doing away with antiquated rules of social conduct, meant for an age where tribalism and feudalism were rampant.

In saying these things, I am in no way seeking to diminish Islam but, attempting to build it up for the betterment of all mankind.

So, I wish to state plainly, here and now that if your voice is silenced,
my voice should also go silent,
either through banishment or through my own free will.

PEACE !

[Mary Carol]

...I agree with your stance Peace.

So, I wish to state plainly, here and now that if your voice is silenced, my voice should also go silent, either through banishment or through my own free will.

Count me in.

[Al-Nasser]

some people want 6 million dollars but don't want to work for it...and some people want Ijtihad without possessing its requirements...which is knowledge of Quran and Sunnah and many other things.

i accept the Ijtihad of Umar (RA) because i turst him..the Mujahid Companion who lived for Islam..but i won't for example accept the Ijtihad of Irshad Manji who is a lesbian writer who live for her mad quest of fame by slandering Islam

[Al-Nasser]

i want the people who want the home delivery Ijtihad to answer this question....how can you tell what is Heretical and what is not? what is your standards?

[Mary Carol]

but i won't for example accept the Ijtihad of Irshad Manji

You must be the only person on this Earth that considers this woman's opinions as "Ijtihad".

[Al-Nasser]

it is.....everyone has his own Ijtihad.....and some Ijtihads are corrupt because it is based on personal interests or ignorance......and Ifsad Manji Ijtihad fall under the "personal interests" category (fame and wealth)

[Owl Mirror]

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Why do the heathen rage and the peoples plot in vain?

"In all that you do, become not one-sided and overspecialized.
The Pharisees who seek our destruction verily think they are doing God's service.
They have become so narrowed by tradition that they are blinded by prejudice and hardened by fear.
Consider the Greeks, who have a science without religion, while the Jews have a religion without science.
And when men become thus misled into accepting a narrow and confused disintegration of truth, their only hope of salvation is to become truth-co-ordinated -- converted.
"Let me emphatically state this eternal truth: If you, by truth co-ordination, learn to exemplify in your lives this beautiful wholeness of righteousness, your fellow men will then seek after you that they may gain what you have so acquired.
The measure wherewith truth seekers are drawn to you represents the measure of your truth endowment, your righteousness.
The extent to which you have to go with your message to the people is, in a way, the measure of your failure to live the whole or righteous life, the truth-co-ordinated life."

While the religions of the world have a double origin -- natural and revelatory -- at any one time and among any one people there are to be found three distinct forms of religious devotion.
And these three manifestations of the religious urge are:


1. Primitive religion. The seminatural and instinctive urge to fear mysterious energies and worship superior forces, chiefly a religion of the physical nature, the religion of fear.

2. The religion of civilization. The advancing religious concepts and practices of the civilizing races -- the religion of the mind -- the intellectual theology of the authority of established religious tradition.

3. True religion -- the religion of revelation. The revelation of supernatural values, a partial insight into eternal realities, a glimpse of the goodness and beauty of the infinite character of the Father in heaven -- the religion of the spirit as demonstrated in human experience. The religion of the physical senses and the superstitious fears of natural man, the Master refused to belittle, though he deplored the fact that so much of this primitive form of worship should persist in the religious forms of the more intelligent races of mankind. Jesus made it clear that the great difference between the religion of the mind and the religion of the spirit is that, while the former is upheld by ecclesiastical authority, the latter is wholly based on human experience.

[Mary Carol]

it is.....everyone has his own Ijtihad.....and some Ijtihads are corrupt because it is based on personal interests or ignorance......and Ifsad Manji Ijtihad fall under the "personal interests" category (fame and wealth)

You yourself say it is her opinion, and then agree with me that opinion has no place in Ijtihad.

My source confirms this:

In Islam, both Jurisprudence (fiqh) and Ijtihad have no relation with any

personal opinion or qiyas.

Ijtihad is a complete scientific practice as defined before and has own

its sources, proofs, principles, methods and precisions like all other fields

of science and human knowledge such as logics, physics, mathematics...etc.

As the logician, physicist and mathematician, in their respective

fields, cannot coin laws or devise formulas from themselves at random,

so does the true jurisprudent (faqih) who is also not able to draft or

frame any law from himself because the nature of Shari'ah and its

lawful and ideological structure (constitution) not only does not

allow him to do that but also stands against those who forge or

play with its laws.


Thus, any law which lacks proofs and principles from the Book and

the sunnah and contradicts these scientific regulations is not an

Islamic law, but is simply the low desire of that law maker against

the spirit of the Shari'ah in order to deceive simple people.

http://www.balagh.com/english/articles/IJTIHAD.htm

[kaleem26]

bismillah ar rahman ir rahim,


in reply to brother hassan approach in doing taweel and to those muslims here who think he has an issue regarding hadrat umar and apparently only applying part of the quraan-auzoobilah, let us clarify-
1/5th of the ghaneemah is what is fardh upon this ummah to pay to the Imaam in order to use it upon the Muslim Ummah. Apparently brother peace of the post thinks that ghaneemah is the only booty taken by war.

There is:

1) Ghaneemah
2) Jizya & Khiraaj
3) Fa'i (property of the kuffar that they give to the Muslims for peace and security, and this is what supported ahlul bayt, it is also what is left behind from the kuffar when they do not have any one to inherit from them).

So 1/5th of the ghaneemah is given to Imaam of the Muslimeen.

We now challenge brother peace to give us an authentic athar to support the fact that 'Umar took more than 1/5th of the ghaneemah from the soldiers.

Then we shall continue further discussion...<!--emo&:inshallah:-->http://www.revivingislam.com/style_emoticons/default/inshallah.gif<!--endemo-->


p.s this information was taken from a brother on another discusison board with regards to peace issue about hadrat umar taking war booty and not applying all the quraan.


also note that stoning the adulterer is a command of allah swt and for ANY MUSLIM HERE TO RESTRICT THE AYAH TO A SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCE NEEDS TO GIVE DALEEL, AS ALL QURANIC AYAHS ARE A'AM UNTIL SPECIFIC EVIDENCE COMES TO RESTRCIT ITS MEANING.

[marjan]

'that's the way to do it'

Punch

[Baby Paw]

Wife beaters are suckers.

[Ahlam]

Asalamu Alaykum!
Personally changing what was clearly written in the Qur’an is wrong, those who say they need to be changed, do you not have faith? That thy lord is omniscient? If a man chooses to beat his wife then it is merely because he has a problem not because his Muslim…honestly what is wrong with people? So far Islam is the only religion (monotheism) that has not changed nor added stuff to its holy book now are we going to become amongst the kufars who change it to suit their own society? Islam has nothing to do with abusive men…they just use the religion as escape coat.

w/s

[Baby Paw]

Wife beaters need to get their arms broken.

[Ahlam]

Wife beaters need to get their arms broken.
Lol….surely such cruelty would only make the one who broke the women beater arm just as bad….indeed women beaters are malicious. May they be guided….<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

w/s

[Baby Paw]

They deserve a dose of their own medicine.

Beating on ones wife or a vunerable is not on.

Punching down your woman when she is pregnant with a child, is downlow.

If I ever caught a man in the act of commiting something so vulgar, I wouldn't hesitate to hand him a beatdown.

[Ahlam]

They deserve a dose of their own medicine.

Beating on ones wife or a vunerable is not on.

Punching down your woman when she is pregnant with a child, is downlow.

If I ever caught a man in the act of commiting something so vulgar, I wouldn't hesitate to hand him a beatdown.
Then surely you’re truly amongst the good Muslim men. The beating of a partner is sick and cruel…May they be guided…ameen.

w/s<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[Baby Paw]

If you wanna beat someone, beat your nafs.

[Ahlam]

That would be hazardous, then surely this would only send them to jail for being a hazard to themselves, he he. Well one should not have the power to degrade others especially their own wives anyways…subhanallah!

[Baby Paw]

My old man was a wife beater, only a sucker would beat on his wife.

You should treat your woman right, especially if the woman is a good woman, as good women ain't easy to come by.

So a man who beats on a good woman, needs to take a reality check, as he ain't realising what he has.

[Ahlam]

My old man was a wife beater, only a sucker would beat on his wife.


Aww…my humble apologises my brother. Verily Allah (swt) shall punish those who are cruel to the humble and weak.

w/s<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[Baby Paw]

Do you think clowns are creepy?

[Chained_Water]

The Qur'an tells the Muslim fighters that they must give one fifth of the spoils they gain in battle to the prophet to distribute amongst the poor and needy:

And you should know that a fifth of the spoils you get hold of are for Allah and the Prophet and the near relatives and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer. (Anfal verse 41)

This is exactly what the prophet did in the early battles of the Muslims - he allowed the Mujahidin to have their share of the spoils after taking one fifth for the poor and needy.

After the prophet died and during the reign of the second Caliph Umar - he felt that the Muslims in general needed to benefit from the spoils of war and so decided all should go to the BaytulMal and witheld the share of the Mujahideen.

How could Umar forbid and make unlawful what has been made permissible in the Quran and by the Prophet?????????????????????

The answer is he did not - he used his Ijtihad - knowing full well that some of the commands in the Qur'an were for specific circumstances and that when these changed - then we must use Ijtihad!

Simple!
I dunno if that counts as an example that would be equal to what you are suggesting be done about hitting ones wife in the case where it is permissible in the Quran.

I do not know the ins and outs of this example by any means.. but going on what you've said.. it doens't seem to me that Hazrat Umar(ra) made unlawful anything that had been made lawful in the Quran.

The verse from the Quran you quoted said, give a 1/5 of what you get hold of to those mentioned.. it does not say keep all the rest or specify that all of the rest must be for the mujahideen only.

So didn't Umar just meet the condition given in the Quran (that a firth be given) and then give more (all the rest) besides as well?

How did he make the lawful unlawful or vice versa.

Your example does not from my understanding of you post, really prove your point or back up your argument about allowing a man to hit is wife in the circumstances specified in the Quran.

As I said, I do not know the ins and outs of it so maybe you can further expand and show how this example is rellevant, or explain how Hazrat Umar(ra) went against the Quran in any way.

Anyone else able to shed some light?

[Ahlam]

Yes!! Honestly aren’t they supposed to be funny (but always fail miserably). They are scary and creepy, their annoying laughter alone gives me shivers *shivers*
Why did you ask?

[Baby Paw]

Ahlam, I'm telling you clowns are super duper creepy.

The only clown that isn't creepy is Krusty!

But all the others are just plain creepy!

I dunno why I asked, the thought of creepy clowns just popped into my head.

Where the heck did they dream the concept of the clown up from? There is something seriously creepy and disturbing about clowns, no idea why it strikes a deep chord of fear amongst so many people.

[Ahlam]

One of your random questions then. I don’t know but there is something awfully disturbing about clowns…I’ve read way too many books that have killers as clowns.

w/s

[Ebony]

So...since my question went un-answered or wasn't notice, I think its suffice to assume that if the wife is being beaten she can retaliate and break his arm and/or leg. Why get someone else to do it (brothers to b exct), when doing it yourself would be much more satisfying


Ws

[Ahlam]

I mean sure enough if you have the strength of beating the husband so be it do it….the opportunity is admissible, lol

w/s

[Baby Paw]

I once watched a movie called Clownhouse (the true horror went on behind the scenes when the camera wasn't rolling).

It was about three young brothers who's parents go out for the night and the 3 brothers are left home alone.

A group of mental asylum patients escape from the local sanitarium, and they glide by a circus nearby where they pinch a bunch of clown outfits and make up.

Next stop, the house where the 3 brothers are home alone!

That was a creepy film, it really was.

Not as creepy as Black Christmas though, that will give you many sleepless nights.

[Friend]

I don't see how hitting the wife is going to 'discipline' her, its more of a humiliation and is bound to affect the relationship between the spouses.

Actually, what if the wife hits him back? would she be reprimanded for it, since he was just doing that which is within his right (so it would seem)?


WsIf the wife hits him back he will probable just hit her harder. It's better to just slip away while he is asleep.

Peace to all....

[Ebony]

If the wife hits him back he will probable just hit her harder. It's better to just slip away while he is asleep.

Peace to all....
If only walking away was as easy as that. If children are involved, its even harder to leave.

Also, doesn't the wife need her husband's permission to leave in the 1st place? I think i read tht somewhere. And as if he'd say "of course you can leave" !

Ws

[Chained_Water]

if your husband is beating you up, you have every right to defend yourself and cause him enough harm to make him unable to harm you :mad:

if you can that is

it would be horrendous to be in a marriage where that is necessary

but after you kick him in the groin with all your might and poke his eyes out.. get the hell out of there and save yourself!

~ahem~

[Chained_Water]

if your husband is enough of an animal to beat you up, why the HELL would you need his permission to leave him?

if I was a wife getting beaten up and someone told me to ask the guys permission to leave I would probably go insane with anger!

[AbuMubarak]

I don't like threats - it makes me want to do exactly what you don't want me to do!

So let me state very clearly that I believe issues such as Hitting ones wife, Slavery, stoning and Death sentence for someone who excersise his freedom to choose whatever religion he believes were not meant to be applied at all times in all places - and that they were specific to the conditions and circumstances of the time.

I don't believe in changing Qur'an - but I do believe our scholars should do what Umar did, which is trying to understand the underlying wisdom of the Qur'an in dealing with events in ways that were appropriate at the time and using Ijtihad to keep to the true 'spirit' of the Qur'an.

If you think I am doing wrong by saying this then ban me!fine with me

[AbuMubarak]

I didn't realize that calling for Ijtihad was a bannable offense here at Ummah.com.

Could one of the admins please point out where in the rules that is stated?i would love for sheikah mariam to explain to us, what exactly is ijtihad

[Ebony]

if your husband is enough of an animal to beat you up, why the HELL would you need his permission to leave him?

if I was a wife getting beaten up and someone told me to ask the guys permission to leave I would probably go insane with anger!Beats me, I doubt any wife would think to ask for permission. Getting out asap would be the 1st thing in mind.

But i am sure i read somewhere, probably one of those fatwa websites tht she needs/might need the husbands permission to leave...let me look it up and get bck to u on tht Sis CW.

Ws

Ps..ok, came across these:

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=13803&dgn=4

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=482&dgn=4

and according to this..nope she doesnt need his permission if he's beating her to a pulp..(as if the boxing bag for a wife would ask fr permission anyway)
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=21269&dgn=4

[Mary Carol]

i would love for sheikah mariam to explain to us, what exactly is ijtihad

And I would dearly love you to point out where in the rules calling for Ijtihad is a bannable offense at Ummah.com.

I guess I won't hold my breath.

[ThE aPpReNtIcE]

OOOO..go Sis Mariam

[AbuMubarak]

And I would dearly love you to point out where in the rules calling for Ijtihad is a bannable offense at Ummah.com.

I guess I won't hold my breath.ok, i will go first

its against the rules of islam and this board to blaspheme islam

to say that the quran needs changing is to deny that its perfect and will not be changed until the last day, thus in turn saying Allah is a liar when Allah says in this book is guidance WITHOUT DOUBT

ok, sheikha, now its your turn

[Chained_Water]

Beats me, I doubt any wife would think to ask for permission. Getting out asap would be the 1st thing in mind.

But i am sure i read somewhere, probably one of those fatwa websites tht she needs/might need the husbands permission to leave...let me look it up and get bck to u on tht Sis CW.

Ws
I know what you mean, its for khula/separation.

But leaving the house for your own safety is a different thing. Any scholar who said ask permission from your abusive husband to leave the house must be out of his mind or totally out of touch with reality.

Hardly sensible to ask the man who is constantly beating the living daylights out of you if you can leave the house for your own safety?! He'd probably reply with his fist!

And as far as I am aware if he refuses separation you can go to an imam, explain the situation and get the marriage annulled via him(the imam).

We discussed this in the thread I created about divorce I think :scratch:

[Ebony]

And as far as I am aware if he refuses separation you can go to an imam, explain the situation and get the marriage annulled via him(the imam).

We discussed this in the thread I created about divorce I think :scratch:
yeh, the annullment of the marriage is done thru the Imam if the guy is being a pain in the rear end and refuses to divorce

he might hve to purchase a boxing bag instead of practising it out on his wife..oh the cost of that ....(!)

Ws

[Chained_Water]

ok, i will go first

its against the rules of islam and this board to blaspheme islam

to say that the quran needs changing is to deny that its perfect and will not be changed until the last day, thus in turn saying Allah is a liar when Allah says in this book is guidance WITHOUT DOUBT

ok, sheikha, now its your turn
So bro AbuM, you have banned bro hassan because you think what he is doing is wrong (as he requested- sort of).. fair enough he said "fine by me!" in defiance but I don't see under what pretext you have done so in terms of ummah.com rules about banning..
He clearly stated in his post that you quoted that he does not believe the Quran needs changing. So you cannot use that as a reason.
At least get the reasons for banning him right, before you do!

Also I think it is VERY patronising to keep refering to sis mariam as "sheikha", if I was her I would be well frustrated by that, why don't you uphold the respect we should show one another when speaking or giving naseeha as I suppose you are trying to do and simply call her as your sister in Islam rather than patronising her?

Obviously both her and hassan are vexing you and you are letting that show in your responses and actions. Maybe you should calm down a bit instead of throwing toys out of the pram.

Just my thoughts on this.

[Chained_Water]

P.S. Also I was sort of hoping hassan would go more into his example, because I didn't think he could back up his view anyway.. now we can't see his response..

would still be good if someone else with more knowledge about it could tell us more about that.

[marjan]

hey I'll have the toys

[AbuMubarak]

So let me state very clearly that I believe issues such as Hitting ones wife, Slavery, stoning and Death sentence for someone who excersise his freedom to choose whatever religion he believes were not meant to be applied at all times in all places - and that they were specific to the conditions and circumstances of the time.

i really think that either some muslims enjoy watching argument, or they dont understand their islam

now regarding mariam, i apologize, i shouldnt call her sheikha, and i apologize if i have offended mariam

but the honest truth is that how many times does a muslim have to be reminded that statements of kufr are not to emanate nor originate from a muslim

someone posted, that we should let new muslims have time before we enjoin the halal and haram, without giving any daleel or examples

now which is worse? me calling mariam sheikha, in an effort for me to show her that she isnt a sheikh, not even close and she should be mindful of her opinions

or someone posting that muslimahs have an undetermined amount of time to obey Allah?

i am truly at a loss of where the ummah wants to go

[Mary Carol]

its against the rules of islam and this board to blaspheme islam

to say that the quran needs changing is to deny that its perfect and will not be changed until the last day, thus in turn saying Allah is a liar when Allah says in this book is guidance WITHOUT DOUBT


I wonder how you got blaspheme out of these statements? The man is clearly calling for Ijtihad, and he even defines the process for you....


Peace:

We must make it explicit in Shari'ah that hitting ones wife under ANY circumstances is now FORBIDDEN!!!!!!!

Otherwise such wife beaters will always abuse this sanction in the Qur'an!

Peace:

Yes you make a good point. There must be some acceptable framework and basis for re-interpretation - it cannot be simply up to the whim of any Tom, **** or Harry.

I have suggested before that the consensus of the scholars could be that basis and the framework could be a close exammination of the Qur'an and Sunnah and use of "Ijtihad" - using the very tools God gave us - "Aql" (Reasoning/intelligence) and "Fitrah" (nature/conscience).

If the scholars were to once again apply ijtihad and use sound reasoning and understanding of the conditions and situation then as compared to the conditions and situation now - I feel confident they could come to an agreement on what re-interpretations are necessary.

But unfortuantely - at the moment - few scholars are willing to take such bold steps.

But I am hopeful that this will happen eventually

[Mary Carol]

My turn:

Ijtihad

Exerting the sum total of one's ability attempting to uncover Allah's rulings on issues from their sources (Qur'an, Sunnah, Ijma', etc.). Sometimes divided into complete ijtihad (the ability of one to independently arrive at Allah's rulings in all areas of fiqh) and partial ijtihad (the ability of one to do so only in certain areas of fiqh in which they have exerted such efforts).

Usually arrived at by a consensus of scholars.

[AbuMubarak]

thank you

[Chained_Water]

obviously as soon as you become a muslim, all of Allah(swt)'s commands become a fardh upon you and every second you are not following them you are in direct defiance of Allah(swt) (if you are aware of them and understand them and yet do not follow them)..

if someone says "let them have time" ..then correct that by saying, such and such is a fardh you are neglecting, so they are aware of the truth..

but really that muslims probably meant, we can't expect people to transform completely over night and should not just condemn them and pressurise them, but rather help them as we can to make those changes come about quicker..

that doesn't mean its O.K to not wear hijaab for however many months/years after reverting..

its just an acknowledgment of that fact that most likely.. that change won't come straight away for many reasons, fear, lack of knowledge, insecurity, whatever.. but that instead of pressure we should give support and help..

sis mariam will tell you thats what the sisters did when she came here, I think it probably helped her more than a telling off, which will probably just make her depressed and nothing more.

I hope you get what I'm saying, I'm not excusing any disobedience to Allah(swt), just saying what you see as excusing it, is probably just acknowledging that new muslims aren't super-muslims and they won't miraculously walk into a phone box as a non-muslim and walk out as the most perfect muslim ever.

[AbuMubarak]

So bro AbuM, you have banned bro hassan because you think what he is doing is wrong (as he requested- sort of).. fair enough he said "fine by me!" in defiance but I don't see under what pretext you have done so in terms of ummah.com rules about banning..
He clearly stated in his post that you quoted that he does not believe the Quran needs changing. So you cannot use that as a reason.
At least get the reasons for banning him right, before you do!

Also I think it is VERY patronising to keep refering to sis mariam as "sheikha", if I was her I would be well frustrated by that, why don't you uphold the respect we should show one another when speaking or giving naseeha as I suppose you are trying to do and simply call her as your sister in Islam rather than patronising her?

Obviously both her and hassan are vexing you and you are letting that show in your responses and actions. Maybe you should calm down a bit instead of throwing toys out of the pram.

Just my thoughts on this.o

was that hassan?

[Chained_Water]

who, Peace?

yes

[Mary Carol]

Also I think it is VERY patronising to keep refering to sis mariam as "sheikha", if I was her I would be well frustrated by that, why don't you uphold the respect we should show one another when speaking or giving naseeha as I suppose you are trying to do and simply call her as your sister in Islam rather than patronising her?

So "sheikha" was an attempt of him patronizing me?

Why I'm simply shocked.

I thought the brother had more maturity than to play at such games.

[Al-Nasser]

sheikha in Arabic can be the old lady (exactly 40+) and can also be the respected female scholar

[Mary Carol]

sheikha in Arabic can be the old lady (exactly 40+) and can also be the respected female scholar

I'm 47, and a scholar of sorts...so maybe he had it dead on then? :up:

[kaleem26]

bismillah ar rahman ir rahim,



brother abu mubarak its the blessed month of ramadan dont let the jahillyah of theri responses of mariam and hassan bother you, insha allah they will get clearer understanding of the deen, at least alhumdilah they are muslim, i for one appreciate the good work you do in this forum and of upholding quran and sunnah even if other muslims who are too busy followin their nafs do not.


but gettin to the issue of wife beating, first of all english translation is not to go by, quote from original text,arabic, then understand when the ayah was revealed[makkan period/medina] and then 3rdly understand the reality surronding it, known as fiqh al waaqi . islam is applicable for all times and realities.
dont we have the best example in the messnger muhammad[saw]? was not stoning the adulterer done during his belssed time?


and those chocolate muslims who think they have a case regarding the hadrat umar issue lack understanding. i have given daleel in my previous response and was hoping hassan would reply . brother abu will he hassan be re-instated at all? not that im bothered.

[AbuMubarak]

kaleem if it was up to me, hassan can go take his theory of evolution of islam somewhere else

i love the brother, he is one of the nicest people on ummah

but we cannot have muslims advocating abandoning islam, just because they dont like this or that

and once you start tampering with clear quranic ayats, you are on the path to destroy islam

and of course we know that islam will never be destroyed, nor will the quran

which even makes the case of banning him more important, just as we would ban irshad manji or any other heretical nonsense on this board, we cannot let our feelings about hassan allow him to use this forum as a bullypit to advocate heresy in islam

to advocate altering the quran (more precisely, altering muslims applying the quran) is haram in every sort

[faqir]

Answered by Sidi Faraz Rabbani



Why does the Qur'an give husbands the right to beat their wives? This sounds like pure savagery. Are women to be treated as animals? This has always distressed me.




Walaikum assalam wa rahmatullah,



The Qur’an does not give any permission to “beat” women. Rather, it is established from the sunna of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) that a woman may seek to terminate her marriage on account of physical abuse.



To understand the Qur’anic verses regarding ‘hitting’, its limits, and context, please refer to the answers related to this found on in our site's archives.



It is important, also, to understand what the Qur’an is: it is not the speech of a human in which temporal moral guidance is laid out for humans. Rather, it is the very Word of Allah, the Creator of all things. Its guidance is not temporal nor bounded by time: it is Allah’s showing His creation the paths to all true good in this life all good and ultimate felicity in the Next.



And Allah alone gives success.



Wassalam.



Faraz Rabbani

[AbuMubarak]

there is a hadith that related that umar ibn alkhattab once was speaking to a man, and the man was told that the prophet had said this and that about an issue

the man continued with his opinion

umar threatened to take that man's head if he uttered another word, and ended the conversation with "after i tell you that the messenger of Allah has said this and that about this thing, you still have a differing opinion?"

there are other hadiths related to how we are to obey the messenger of Allah and Allah's book

these are not light matters, and yes today we have this "freedom of opinion" where people feel their opinions matter in terms of islam

YOUR OPINION MEANS NOTHING

the name of this religion is submission, to Allah and His Messenger

the items that hassan has issue with are clear ayaat and ahaadith, not just where do you hold your hands in salat, but he is actually opposing ayaat of quran

and the muslims wonder what to do?

wallahi, this matter is clear

[faqir]

Answered by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari

In relation to the above question, is it permissible for lets say a wife's brother to use physical force against an oppressive and abusive husband?




In the Name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Marriage is a means of drawing closer to Allah. It is a means to acquire chastity and god-fearing (taqwa). It is also a means of gaining peace, tranquillity, solace and comfort for each of the spouses, and the foundation of a successful society.

Allah Most High says:

“And among his signs is this, that He created for you partners from among your selves, that you may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He put love and mercy between you.” [Qur’an, al-Rum: 21]

The Shariah has laid down certain rights and duties upon the husband and wife. The husband has been ordered to support the wife financially and take care of her material, spiritual and physical needs, and to treat her in a proper manner. The wife has been ordered to obey her husband in everything permissible related to their marriage, and to be a means of peace and relieve him of the pressures of his day to day life. Both have been commanded by the Qur’an to deal with each other with excellence and in the best of ways (bi’l ma`ruf).

The husband has no right to be abusive or to oppress the wife (and also visa-versa). This is a tremendous sin, and a form of oppression, which the Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) warned against, saying, “Oppression is darknesses on the Day of Judgment.” [Muslim]

In a hadith reported by Imam al-Bukhari, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:

“It surely very wrong that one of you beats up his wife like she is a slave and then goes and fulfils his needs in the night” [Sahih al-Bukhari, 5204]

Abusive Wife?

At times, the opposite is true, and the wife is violent and abusive towards the husband.

This is also a great sin. She has been made responsible by Allah Most High to obey the husband, out of tremendous wisdom whose benefit is manifest in the personal, interpersonal, and social levels. The Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) mention that if the husband calls her for to bed whilst she is cooking, she must stop and come to him. [Sunan al-Tirmidhi] She must not keep optional fasts nor emerge out of the house without his permission, or mutual understanding. If this is not allowed, then you can imagine what the sin will be for treating the husband inappropriately…

Is using her brother to beat up her husband an alternative?

In the light of the above, it becomes clear that it is absolutely unlawful for the wife to get her brother to use physical force against her husband even if the husband is oppressive. Islam prohibits all kinds of violence and aggression, especially when it is between the husband and the wife.

What is the solution, then?

The solution when the husband is oppressive is not in asking your brother to beat him up, rather to revert to other methods which includes advising him with wisdom and beautiful preaching. If you can’t deal with the issue yourself then the mediation of other of his family members may be more productive. If all avenues fail, then you can also ask for annulment of your marriage according to the principles outlined in the books of Fiqh, in consultation with a reliable scholar.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari

[kaleem26]

jazak allah khair for your response, i too love brother hassan and even mariam simply becuase he/she is muslim but i distance myself from his/her views- suffice leave it that as he/she is not present and we do not want our deeds eaten by backbiting.

but i agree with you completely , we need to draw the line somwhere and tampering with quranic ayahs is not allowed, and should not be tolerated, but i beleive in letting a muslim who is not sure or has the excuse of ignorance that regardless what he ask we answer insha allh even regarding the neglect of quranic ayahs.ie, not being implemented today times.


i recommend you a discussion board akhi if your not a member already where knowledge is overlfowing and insh aallah you will benefit from it in this blessed month. i will pm you it insh aallah.

[AbuMubarak]

if a man beats his wife unmercifully, he deserves a beatdown

after that, we can talk to him nicely

[marjan]

how about a man who beats his wife mercifully?

[AbuMubarak]

he gets a merciful naseeha

[marjan]

from whom?

[AbuMubarak]

there are quite a few "all muslim" forums and many of them are nice


my only issue with them is that they usually require you to adhere to a "party line"

here, we are much more open, but in our openess, we get muslims who freely espouse themselves not covering, we have had muslims speak of how they do drugs, we have muslims who want to change quran, we have muslims who love the kuffar

maybe there is no balance, and its better to adhere to a party line

Allah knows best

jazak allah khair for your response, i too love brother hassan and even mariam simply becuase he/she is muslim but i distance myself from his/her views- suffice leave it that as he/she is not present and we do not want our deeds eaten by backbiting.

but i agree with you completely , we need to draw the line somwhere and tampering with quranic ayahs is not allowed, and should not be tolerated, but i beleive in letting a muslim who is not sure or has the excuse of ignorance that regardless what he ask we answer insha allh even regarding the neglect of quranic ayahs.ie, not being implemented today times.


i recommend you a discussion board akhi if your not a member already where knowledge is overlfowing and insh aallah you will benefit from it in this blessed month. i will pm you it insh aallah.

[kaleem26]

the site i gave you to join requires no party line except the people adhere to quraan and sunnah and if you are not sure then ask questions. and if you then persist in your jahillyah then the red button would put a stop to all that insha- alalh;)


i was at a talk by brother abdul rahim greene , he said a good thing- he said ramadan is about acquring taqwa. if you enter a stall with $10 dollars and leave the stall with $10 dollars-what did you gain? absolute nothing. likewise with ramadan , if you eneter with a certain amount of taqwa and leave ramadan with the same amount of taqwa you had when entering-what benefit did you attain from ramadan?absolute nothing. so do not let this ramadan be a waste, rather try to increase on the good deeds,such as sunnah prayers, or miswaak, or praying fajr at the mosque, every little deed does not go un-noticed.


may allah swt make us all successful in this life and the next,amin.

[Mary Carol]

Still waiting....

I didn't realize that calling for Ijtihad was a bannable offense here at Ummah.com.

Could one of the admins please point out where in the rules that is stated?

And as was stated here:

So, I wish to state plainly, here and now that if your voice is silenced, my voice should also go silent, either through banishment or through my own free will.

PEACE !

So I'll be back later tonight or early tomorrow to see if any admin can show the rule at Ummah.com where a member can be banned for calling for Ijtihad.

If not, then the latest abuse of the banning button by admin should be reversed, and perhaps the admins could concentrate on banning members who insult Islam and call Islamic women "fundamentalist brood mares".

[kaleem26]

im assumin this is where brother hassan got his issue regarding the rule of itjihad?can anyone clarify? anyhow im checkin up on it and insha allah will post further replies.

--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ummah.org.uk/what-is-islam/law/ijtihad.htm


The ideology of Islam consists of two key aspects: a set of beliefs i.e. the creed, and a system of rules regulating man's actions emanating from the creed. And Quran is the primary source for both of them.

Quran is definite i.e. nothing has been added or deleted from it since it was revealed but this does not necessarily means that the meaning of the text is definite. If there is only one possible understanding of the text then the meaning is considered definite and the sharaih (corpus juries of Islam) derived from the text is an assured rule. On the other hand, if the meaning of the text is open to more than one interpretation, the rule is derived from the text through Ijtihad - the process of making judgment based on Quran, Sunnah i.e. actions of the Prophet and his words of commandment, and qiyas i.e. divine analogy.

Examples of the use of Ijtihad amongst the sahabah - companions of the Prophet (saw), are numerous. Following are some of the examples:


Quran says: "As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands", but during the year of famine - which resembled the case of plight, Caliph Umar suspended the penalty for theft in view of the verse "Whosoever is forced to transgress the laws without violating the laws, then there is no sin against him"

During the opening of Syria and Iraq, the sahabah disagreed over what should be done with the land they had opened. Some considered that the land should be divided into fifths as Quran prescribed. They were of the opinion that the four fifths of the land should be divided among the soldiers and the remaining one fifth should be distributed to those whom Allah has commanded in the Quran "Then truly to Allah belongs one fifth and to the Messenger, the Messenger's family, the orphans, the poor and needy and the wayfarer". Eventually, it was decided that the land should remain in the hands of the owners but under the authority of the Baytul Mal (treasury for the purpose of providing social security benefits) where every Muslim, including those identified in the verse, could benefit from it.

Another example concerns the time of waiting (iddah - the period after which a woman can marry - a safeguard for ascertaining the correct fatherhood of a child) for the pregnant wife who becomes widowed. In view of the verse "For those who carry life in their wombs, their period is until they deliver their burden", there was an opinion that when a man dies and leaves a pregnant wife, her time of waiting expires at the birth of the child. While in view of the verse "If any of you die and leave widows behind, they shall wait concerning themselves four months and ten days" there was another opinion that the time of waiting expires either when she gives birth or after 4 months 10 days, whichever is the longest duration. In other words, if the woman gives birth 8 weeks after her husband's death, she still has to wait the remaining 2 months and 10 days. It was resolved that each of the verses was interdependent and, were connected ingeneral to the other. The second verse in linked to the first which gives the understanding that the women whose husband has died, is under iddah for four months and ten days if she is free from pregnancy. However if she is pregnant, her iddah expires when she has given birth.


Ijtihad has been a long established Islamic practice to find answers to new situations and differing circumstances. Sahabah were fortunate to be trained in Ijtihad by Prophet (saw) and by the events of that time. But after that it became more and more crucial and most practical to consider not only Quran and sunnah in Ijtihad but also their derivatives i.e. Ijma -as- sahaba (consensus of companions) and qiyas through hadiths, Islamic history and sharaih.

Muslims have had different opinions since the time of the Messenger of Allah but it should not be seen as a weakness and source of disunity. The weakness and disunity is not the difference of opinions but rather in the way in which such differences are viewed. As long as an opinion is based on an Islamic evidence, and that opinion does not contradict an assured rule, that opinion should be respected as an Islamic opinion.

[BobCleotisSmith]

So the Quran says:
[4:34] The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.

Hassan says:
I believe it is wrong to lay a finger on your wife under ANY circumstances.

This part of the Qur'an - that allows a man to hit his wife - was for another time and another age, when people behaved and reacted differently. It is simply unacceptable in todays world!

Fundie says:
So let me state very clearly that I believe issues such as Hitting ones wife, Slavery, stoning and Death sentence for someone who excersise his freedom to choose whatever religion he believes were not meant to be applied at all times in all places - and that they were specific to the conditions and circumstances of the time.

Clearly Fundie is saying the same thing as Hassan. So I fully expect Fundie to be banned posthaste.

But more to the point, you both are interpreting. Because clearly the text of the Koran, which is valid over all other sources be they Sunna or Hadith or your own opinions could not be any clearer. I read nothing in that verse about 'adapt this to your own time and circumstance.' Care to explain?

And as for language interpretation, that isn't a valid point. Unless the only language you speak is Arabic, your interpreting. Simply learning Arabic makes no difference, because if your English speaking, your still going to be translating internally. But it is clearly irrelevant in this case, as it's spelled out as plain as day. I can beat my wife! And she only has to be rebellious! Of course that isn't defined so I suppose it's left up to me to define it. My food was overcooked? Rebellious! My wife doesn't want to have sex? Rebellious! Where is my steel pip... umm toothbrush! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3631743.stm)( Such a beautiful woman...such a pity)

[jamila]

"hitting ones wife under ANY circumstances is now FORBIDDEN"

He is calling something Haram which is clearly sanctioned as a means towards holding a marriage together, and hence halal. The ijtihad, in this case, is not to forbid what is sanctioned, but to determine exactly in what circumstances it is allowed and NOT TRANSGRESS BEYOND THAT. Allah does not like the transgressors.

The reason (I imagine) Peace was banned is that he consistently goes to the extreme in what he thinks MUST BE CHANGED from what is ordained IN THE BOOK OF ALLAH. That is the blasphemy.

Now, if he called for ijtihad on the interpretation of when and how the acts he dislikes so much are halal .... i.e. the details which can only be found in the traditional (sunnah) explanations .... perhaps such a radical step as banning a man who calls for the abandonment of the Book would not have been taken.

Mariam, think before you openly support some-one as extreme in his opinions as Hassan.

[Chained_Water]

I can understand why he has been banned and why the mods think he should be, because it has been expressed more clearly now.

So let me state very clearly that I believe issues such as Hitting ones wife, Slavery, stoning and Death sentence for someone who excersise his freedom to choose whatever religion he believes were not meant to be applied at all times in all places - and that they were specific to the conditions and circumstances of the time.

I don't believe in changing Qur'an - but I do believe our scholars should do what Umar did, which is trying to understand the underlying wisdom of the Qur'an in dealing with events in ways that were appropriate at the time and using Ijtihad to keep to the true 'spirit' of the Qur'an.

If you think I am doing wrong by saying this then ban me!

It just looks very dodgy to quote that and say "fine with me", esp when in that post hassan says he doesn't believe in changing the Quran and uses the actions of Hazrat Umar(ra) to back up his view. Which makes banning him for that post seem very dubious and as though it was just done as a reaction to his defiance and in anger.

He just clearly says he doesn't believe in changing the Quran! So how can he be banned for that?

And he uses Hazrat Umar(ra) as an example to back up his views on why certain things are not for all circumstances and all times.

Personally, from what he said, I didn't think his reasoning or his views stand up anyway. Which is why I asked twice for someone else who knows more about that particular example to speak up, because I didn't and could only go on what he said in his post and the fact that didn't prove his argument in itself. I think someone else may have been able to refute him better, and I would have liked to have seen his response.

[Owl Mirror]

.
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.... i.e. the details which can only be found in the traditional (sunnah) explanations .....

So, common sense, common decency and common courtesy are not allowed in any life situation, if it goes against a traditional society edict from 1400 years ago ?
Did not Allah give each human being a mind with which to think, and a voice with which to voice their opinions and thoughts ?
I believe, it is erroneous (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=erroneous) to believe that one sex is above the other.
Man and Woman were created as partners, to enjoy life together and raise children
who will respect the rights of others, regardless of gender. I M H O

[ZawjatuRaafi]

as salaamu alaikum

Ya Know I have been reading through this whole thread in just utter disbelief at the direction it has went. Subhanaa Allah people what has happened to your fasting. Is this really the attitudes we should be taking with one another... I see so much hostility from so many people subhanaa Allah... May Allah guide us all Ameen!!!

In looking through this thread, it starts off with a scenario of a couple and their problems. Common problems, where sadly the end result was that this woman died (of other causes from what I gathered) and this poor child has been left off to be raised away from the beautiful deen she was born into subhanaa Allah may Allah guide her aright Ameen...

Now with all that it has turned into bannings, ijtihad, Proper hijaab I mean really everyone is it always that when posting a post it must turn into controversy?

As to how things have been dealt with on the thread with regards to its members. I dont want to go far into Brother Hassans character, but I will say that if the reasons for banning (and i am sure inshaa Allah the niyaat behind it was correct) are because of statements of making that which is permissable impermissable and vice versa, this is not something that is a new issue. This has been addressed as long as I have been on this forum. It has been an issue that has been tolerated for quite some time. But this is simply something that WE CANNOT DO!!! You cannot say I enjoin that which is good and forbid that which is evil (or not good) and sit by and watch and partake in such statements and say you base your life on this statement. So if the ban is there and I personally see just cause for it not that my opinion matters to most of you here, the ban is there you keep moving. Inshaa Allah maybe the brother will see his err and correct his thinking because clearly it is of misguidance to make statements of such.

I for one am a woman, and a muslimah al hamdulillah, and in being that I have no problem with the ayat that is referred to. See because NO wife in my opinion should ever allow things to go to that degree... A Muslim wife fears Allah, and knows that with the pleasure of her husband, by her hand, she has gained the pleasure of Allah. This is the ultimate goal in Islam. Allahs pleasure! If my husband comes to me with what he is seeing in my behavior and I dont rectify my ways, causing it to go to further steps of him say leaving my bed. Well I know I need to check myself, cause I know the steps that follow according to Quran and Sunnah. So if I am choosing to rebel in such a manner and it has to come to that level then maybe it will bring some humility to the situation. Now with that said I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT BEATING A WOMAN DOWN!!! NOR AM I TALKING ABOUT BEATING HER CAUSE SHE DIDNT COOK THE CHICKEN RIGHT 3 TIMES IN A ROW. I am talking about issues that matter, she is consistently stealing from the household, she is not covering, she is doing something that is truly taking her from the folds of Islam, and this form of rebellion can damage not only her but the family as a whole. And I am not saying that this is what was meant when the ayat was sent down. But I think if we as Muslims use hikmah in our affairs we will find that there is appropriate ways of dealing with things, and these measures shouldnt have to come this far. But sadly we as women can tick and do some stuff that is just very emotionally off base, we can take things too far, and men can often not have the patience or tolerance we may have expected them to have. Either way BEATING YOUR WIFE DOWN is a very big difference then what I understand the ayat to mean...

But as a non muslim or even a new muslim it can be very difficult to see beyond just the words in your english KORAN or Qur'an. This was one of the first issues I had to tackle in coming to Islam, I needed to understand this and al hamdulillah I have come to terms with it. We as people have to read between the lines from time to time everything is not as black and white as we want to make it. There is much hikmah in this but it is how you choose to perceive it...

As far as speaking on that which you are not truly understanding, Yes I will agree it is one thing to voice an opinion, I think that what the issue seems to be just from observation, is that when you really arent certain and you do voice your opinion and someone tells you this thinking is incorrect and then takes it further and provides daleel to prove this thinking is incorrect, and you continue to argue your point. Your point becomes mute, people stop hearing it as being just someone who didnt know and made a mistake and it turns into someone who refuses to recognize that someone with more knowledge even in just that one thing is correct and maybe it is best to stop arguing it and try to learn from it. This is humility mashaa Allah. May Allah provide us all with it, AMEEN! We all from the newest in deen to the oldest in deen need to realize there is SO much to learn in Islam and no matter how much we study we will never understand Islam in the fullest of its capacities and therefore we have to stop and learn from one another and not always feel we have so much to say. And with that said I will get off my soapbox inshaa Allah it just really saddens me to see all this taking place. When there really is so much so very much more important that could be taking place right now subhanaa Allah...

Sorry for the length but HEY you all know me lol... May Allah and you all forgive me for anything I may have said that was offensive, and if I said anything that was incorrect may Allah and you all forgive me, may Allah rectify all our affairs, and shortcomings and grant us the ability to walk on the siratul Mustaqim Ameen...

[Ali_Khan]

how about a man who beats his wife mercifully?what?

[Mary Carol]

Now, if he called for ijtihad on the interpretation of when and how the acts he dislikes so much are halal .... i.e. the details which can only be found in the traditional (sunnah) explanations .... perhaps such a radical step as banning a man who calls for the abandonment of the Book would not have been taken.

He did call for Ijtihad:

Peace:

Yes you make a good point. There must be some acceptable framework and basis for re-interpretation - it cannot be simply up to the whim of any Tom, **** or Harry.

I have suggested before that the consensus of the scholars could be that basis and the framework could be a close exammination of the Qur'an and Sunnah and use of "Ijtihad" - using the very tools God gave us - "Aql" (Reasoning/intelligence) and "Fitrah" (nature/conscience).

If the scholars were to once again apply ijtihad and use sound reasoning and understanding of the conditions and situation then as compared to the conditions and situation now - I feel confident they could come to an agreement on what re-interpretations are necessary.

But unfortuantely - at the moment - few scholars are willing to take such bold steps.

But I am hopeful that this will happen eventually

Mariam, think before you openly support some-one as extreme in his opinions as Hassan.

lol

I openly support his right to call for Ijtihad.

Since when is calling for Ijtihad extreme?

What is extreme is stifling the debate.

An extremity that is beginning to be all too familiar here at Ummah.com.

If a good Muslim, an intelligent Muslim, a devout Muslim like Peace does not belong here, then neither do I.

[ZawjatuRaafi]

subhanaa Allah....

Mariam you have been Muslim for how long now? I know you are pretty new to the deen. So my question to you is what do you think makes a good Muslim (not a question you have to reply to me on but maybe write it in a book and go back to it a few years from now and see where your thinking is then from now)? My second thing is to remind you that not many here actually even knows who the other person they are speaking to is. We are all going off of what a persons words are, we have no idea if this person has ever made a salat a day in their life, we have no idea if they are honest about their identity, nothing. Third instead of getting so worked up about someone being gone, unjustly or whatever the reason is make duaa that Allah bless him/her with better, and remember that as small as it may seem even that is qadr Allah....

I would hate to see you go ukhti off of a decision that you disagree with, so maybe inshaa Allah just a little cool down time is what is needed for all.

Admin (maybe upon banning a member the thread should always be closed to avoid so much fitnah and going on about the person who is no longer there to defend himself/herself would be better, and a rule made that it not be taken up in such manners as new threads of *bring back xxxxx*but rather it be taken up in PM to whatever admin there are...) All of this really does take away from the good that can be had here.

[Mary Carol]

My second thing is to remind you that not many here actually even knows who the other person they are speaking to is. We are all going off of what a persons words are, we have no idea if this person has ever made a salat a day in their life, we have no idea if they are honest about their identity, nothing. Third instead of getting so worked up about someone being gone, unjustly or whatever the reason is make duaa that Allah bless him/her with better, and remember that as small as it may seem even that is qadr Allah....

Haven't you met members from Ummah.com?

I have.

Peace is one of the most honest, most devout, I know.

I have met both him and his family.

So you may have no idea...but I do.

[ZawjatuRaafi]

mashaa allah sister May allah grant you good in this life and the hereafter. Ameen!

[outlandish]

Moderators acting as fair as usual
The person clearly said he wasnt referring to changing the Quran,than how can that be taken as a decision to ban him?
From my experience on ummah,and what I have seen of the ppl here,all those acting so adhering to the quran and sunnah, lecturing others about this and that. I seen how much they really do adhere to it. Before charging someone with something,atleast ask that person if its true or not,before taking such radical steps. Exactly the same way as done to me...Bro Hassan is the only one I always seen act so nice and good to other people. NO wonder so many of the old posters have left this place...

[amal]

what?May be a small slap ,like only to touch her arm, somethnig like that.

[jamila]

I take your point, mariam. You know him personally. I even disagreed with AbuM about banning him in the 'old' days precisely because he seemed to be arguing from the view-point that I referred to in my post 'explaining' his banning. That is, making ijtihad within the confines of the witnesses' and the qur'anic traditions and within the the confines of the when and how (and why) of rulings.

But, despite the overt statement that he is not trying to change the Qur'an (he would have difficulty doing that, since Allah preserves it), he openly said he wants what is sanctioned in it (namely slavery and the use of beating to correct the behaviour of women as a last resort) to be revoked. That is ABROGATED. In effect, he might as well be saying the religion WAS NOT COMPLETED as it is witnessed to be completed in both the Qur'an and the Sunnah, and that Alllah made an error on leaving both these issues 'unresolved' within his book and unresolved within the sunnah.

As for stoning - that is a matter of deep study of the sunnah, since stoning is not found in the Qur'an except when done by the angels on Sodom and Gamorah. That is subject to debate, and good luck to him. I wouldn't like to express my own opinion, but where men are concerned and what they have decided on the issue, they are not perfect as Allah is perfect.

[sajid]

ok here keep it cool plz...

[Semantic]

Um. Certain rulings require certain conditions.

Slavery is abrogated.

Why?

No Khalifah.

Wife beating is not permitted.

Why?

It goes against the sunnah of not harming another, as well as the law of the land.

As muslims do we have to adhere to the law of the land?

Yes, when it does not contradict a required aspect of our religion.

So that doesn't apply either.

What's the fuss?

[AhkmedHassoun]

I am talking about issues that matter, she is consistently stealing from the household, she is not covering, she is doing something that is truly taking her from the folds of Islam, and this form of rebellion can damage not only her but the family as a whole. And I am not saying that this is what was meant when the ayat was sent down. But I think if we as Muslims use hikmah in our affairs we will find that there is appropriate ways of dealing with things, and these measures shouldnt have to come this far. But sadly we as women can tick and do some stuff that is just very emotionally off base, we can take things too far, and men can often not have the patience or tolerance we may have expected them to have. Either way BEATING YOUR WIFE DOWN is a very big difference then what I understand the ayat to mean...

Your're interpreting.
The Koranic verse that was quoted is quite clear.

The Quran supercedes Sunnah and Hadith. It is the word of god and those words could not be any clearer. What matter's to you may not matter to someone else. If I think my wife has 'overcooked the chicken' and I feel that this is rebellious, according to God's word I can beat her. I see nothing in that verse that tells me to interpret or put it in it's 'proper' context.

But as a non muslim or even a new muslim it can be very difficult to see beyond just the words in your english KORAN or Qur'an. This was one of the first issues I had to tackle in coming to Islam, I needed to understand this and al hamdulillah I have come to terms with it. We as people have to read between the lines from time to time everything is not as black and white as we want to make it. There is much hikmah in this but it is how you choose to perceive it...
Isn't what you and other fundies are always chiding Christians about? The ambiguity of the Bible and Christianity? 'Reading between the lines'? In other words, read what isn't there. Tell me what is between the lines that I cannot see with my own eyes about 4:34. This is an all or nothing proposition. You either take the Koran at face value or you leave the door open for interpretation and that can mean anything can be bent to suit an individuals will.

[Semantic]

Out of curiousity AhmedHassoun, can you read arabic?

[AhkmedHassoun]

No I cannot read arabic, but lets say I could. Unless Arabic is my first language, I would still convert the Arabic to English in my head. So this point is irrelevant. I have read multilple interpretations of this verse, and they all say the same thing.

004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

[amal]

Your're interpreting.
The Quran supercedes Sunnah and Hadith. It is the word of god and those words could not be any clearer. What matter's to you may not matter to someone else. If I think my wife has 'overcooked the chicken' and I feel that this is rebellious, according to God's word I can beat her. .Indeed its very clear the punishement need to apply only in very serious situations, like a last resort, and only after you had applied for other measure. So for the overcooked chicken you can't.

[AhkmedHassoun]

Nonsense. It says nothing about 'seriousness' or any other such interpretation. IT IS VERY CLEAR AND SIMPLE. Can't you read?

It says 'disloyalty, ill conduct or rebellion'. There are varying levels of each of those. It is simply left up to the husband to decide. So 'overcooked chicken' is valid reason if I think she overcooked it to anger me.

[Kaiser]

Tell that those wife beating morons in parts of the world who think that pouring acid and beating and mutilating is ok.

And the biggest problem there is lack of education, stupid traditions and lunatic preachers who teach vile lies.

[amal]

"disloyalty and ill-conduct"

If overcooked chicken its ill - conduct the first measure would be to announce me, admonish me that i am deeply wrong in the cooking area and show me, like husband, how would suppose to cook this chicken, right??? This its a job like any other job: the cooking. You not need to be angry for that.

[amal]

And the biggest problem there is lack of education, stupid traditions and lunatic preachers who teach vile lies.I am agree with you, the lack of education. This its the point. Wife beaters are everywhere in this world: catholics, protestants,... To eradicate the beating the people need first to be educated.

[yorkshireman]

Hassan got banned? :eek2:

[AhkmedHassoun]

"disloyalty and ill-conduct"

If overcooked chicken its ill - conduct the first measure would be to announce me, admonish me that i am deeply wrong in the cooking area and show me, like husband, how would suppose to cook this chicken, right??? This its a job like any other job: the cooking. You not need to be angry for that.

Your missing the point. Cooking is indeed a job, but it is the motivation for the bad cooking that is subjective. You think she's just not good at cooking, but maybe I think she's just trying to **** me off. Either way, she's my wife, not yours. I am the arbiter of her behavior, not you. If I have come to the conclusion that this is rebellious behavior, I can beat her, as God has commanded.

Wife beaters are everywhere in this world: catholics, protestants,...]
Indeed. The only obvious point is that fundamentalist Chrisitans have no theological justification for beating their wife. In fact, they do it in spite of their religion, not because of it. Big difference.

[faqir]

Maybe I've not read most of this thread [I haven't] but what do you mean you're going to beat her [as God commanded] for not cooking your food?!?!

Personally, if anyone beat my mother, my sister, or my wife for that matter they would be beaten to a pulp by me, InshaAllah.

[amal]

You need to prove first, but prove, she is making that to **** you off.And don't forget you need first to take other measures.

In catholics there is a punishment for ill conduct? or for breaking the 10 commandments?

[Naida]

Tell that those wife beating morons in parts of the world who think that pouring acid and beating and mutilating is ok.

And the biggest problem there is lack of education, stupid traditions and lunatic preachers who teach vile lies.
:(

If only Muslim men followed the example of the prophet and the Muslim women followed the examples of the mothers of believers.

If only.

May Allah guide us all.

[Naida]

Your missing the point. Cooking is indeed a job, but it is the motivation for the bad cooking that is subjective. You think she's just not good at cooking, but maybe I think she's just trying to **** me off. Either way, she's my wife, not yours. I am the arbiter of her behavior, not you. If I have come to the conclusion that this is rebellious behavior, I can beat her, as God has commanded.


Indeed. The only obvious point is that fundamentalist Chrisitans have no theological justification for beating their wife. In fact, they do it in spite of their religion, not because of it. Big difference.
Why dont you exercise your might and power and leadership in jihad fe sabilillah instead of resorting to this caveman crap!! Surely our Prophet taught us better!!

And I wasn't aware that you were a scholar of tafseer so that you can interpret Allah's ayat as clearly and freely as you do.

[Kaiser]

Oh dont worry, if you beat your wife for badly cooked chicken because thats being rebellious, she will become rebellious, but then again dont worry because next time she cooks for you, she will poison the next meal.

Serves you right too.

[amal]

Why dont you exercise your might and power and leadership in jihad fe sabilillah instead of resorting to this caveman crap!! Surely our Prophet taught us better!!
.
:) I think the wife its much easy target for leadership

[faqir]

I don't know why Hassan was banned but if anyone should be banned its someone who goes around boasting how they'd beat their wife up if they didn't cook their food right and then tries to justify it as their God-given right.

[faqir]

:(

If only Muslim men followed the example of the prophet

Exactly, did Rasul Allah salallahu alayhi wasalam beat the mothers of the believers?

[amal]

It should be better never mention again about banning.

[ZawjatuRaafi]

Isn't what you and other fundies are always chiding Christians about? The ambiguity of the Bible and Christianity? 'Reading between the lines'? In other words, read what isn't there. Tell me what is between the lines that I cannot see with my own eyes about 4:34. This is an all or nothing proposition. You either take the Koran at face value or you leave the door open for interpretation and that can mean anything can be bent to suit an individuals will.<!-- / message -->:shock: OH MY GOODNESS!!! Did i just get called a FUNDIE???? You apparantly have never read any of my posts before now cause if you had you would know I am clearly not any of these things you mentioned subhanaa Allah... I stay away from topics of the bible, christianity and politics even... for the most part but im a fundie??? Too funny...

The thing you are apparantly not getting is that if you beat your wife unjustly because you have chosen to use this ayat to your advantage you will be dealt with on the day of judgement for your actions, as well punishment can come in this life and the hereafter. So if you have not chosen to be wise in what you do, to not see that this is for serious nature not just because, and not take into account that no mark should be left on your wife, which means that so called beating we in the english world call it is not some punch her in the face, knock her to the floor sort of beating. You are interpretting that it is for any reason you choose, and speak as if there are no methods before hand that must be taken. Then you will so rightly be dealt with by Allah...

And keep in mind I am no advocate to domestic abuse, if a man hits me I will grab the closest thing i can find lol... but I also can understand the ayat to some degree... I am not a scholar I dont have the legal backing to say it means this or that I am saying to me thats what i derive from the ayat. That for good reason of rebellion and after taking steps to rectify the behavior it continues then there is this method. But if a woman is living her islam correctly she should never go to such lengths and the husband should always use hikmah in his actions because if he has done something unjust Allah will punish him for it.

As well you need to read more then just these english translations, you need to read the tafsir on it, as well the many ahadith on this subject to get a better understanding. And ya know if you dont like the method you are always more then welcome to continue to try to deal with your wifes behavior in other ways. It is not to say that you can not use your mind to come up with ways to deal with your wife. It is not made an obligation on anyone to do this, and those who abuse it well they will be handled...

Faqir he is using the chicken statements in reference to what i said if you go back to my VERY long post you will see what was said.

[faqir]

Wife Beating




1. Does the Arabic word 'daraba' necessarily mean "violent or intense or repeated striking?"




No.

Jurists routinely use the expression "daraba al-ma' `ala wajhihi" - lit. strike water upon the face, for someone accomplishing the first rukn of wudu' (washing the face).



Also in Arabic daraba al-ard "to strike the earth" - as in verse 4:94 {When you strike the earth in the cause of Allah} - means to travel, i.e. walking with a staff.





2. Has the phrase 'wadribuhunna' in 4:34 normally been interpreted as a command or has it been interpreted as more of a recommendation?




Not even a recommendation. Al-Razi said in his Tafsir on 4:34 (1308/1891 edition 3:222): "Al-Shaf`i said: 'wa al-darbu mubah, wa al-tarku afdal - and hitting is permitted, but not hitting is preferable.'"

NB: Al-Shafi`i's position is therefore that it is "permissible", NOT "just barely permissible" as misrepresented by Muhammad Asad. [_The Message of the Qur'an_, translation and commentary of the Qur'an by Muhammad Asad (1980), footnote 45, p. 109 (one of the commentaries on verse 4:34).]

The basic rule (asl) is strict prohibition, followed by dispensation (rukhsa) as explicited by the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif in the hadith below, which al-Shafi`i took for his evidence in his ruling:

The Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif said: "Do not hit the maidservants of Allah!" (la tadribu ima' Allah). Then `Umar (RA) came to the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif and said [NB: by way of exaggeration, cf. `Awn al-Ma`bud]: "The women are rebelling (dha'irna) against their husbands!" So the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif GAVE A DISPENSATION (rakhkhasa) to beat them. Whereupon women started pouring in to see the family of the Messenger of Allah and complain about their husbands. Seeing this, the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif said: "Many women have poured in to see the family of Muhammad, complaining of their husbands, and *the latter are certainly not the best of you*." Narrated from Iyas ibn `Abd Allah ibn Abi Dhubab by al-Shafi`i in his Musnad, Abu Dawud, al-Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, al-Tabarani in al-Kabir, and al-Hakim. Al-Nawawi and al-Suyuti graded it a sound (sahih) narration in Riyad al-Salihin [RS-281] and al-Jami` al-Saghir respectively.

In a version cited by al-Razi in his Tafsir, (3:222) `Umar also states: "We the Quraysh used to have our men holding sway over our women. Then we came to Madina and found that their women held sway over their men. Then our women mixed with their women until they rebelled (dha'irna) against their husbands. So I came to the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif and told him: 'The women are rebelling against their husbands!' So he http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif GAVE PERMISSION (adhina) to beat them. Whereupon, etc."

Some people who were influenced by feminism until they forgot the Adab of Islam, tend to badmouth Sayyidina `Umar for what they term his mistreatment of women. While it is true that the Arabs in general and Sayyidina `Umar in particular had a very high sense of self-respect (ghira) as attested by no less than the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif (in the hadith where he mentions seeing `Umar's palace in Paradise), nevertheless we should observe Adab so as not to commit a sin whenever mentioning the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif, his Family, and His Companions, indeed all Muslims as Allah (SWT) made the honor of a Muslim as sacrosanct as his life and property.

The Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif also expressed astonishment at the cruelty of certain men when he said: "Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" (Bukhari and Muslim).

The crafty little anti-Islam page on domini.org states:

"The Qur'an states:

"Righteous women are therefore obedient, And those you fear may be rebellious (nushuz) admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them."

"Some translators add the word lightly after 'beat them' in Q 4:34. Others like Mohammed Pickthall and Rodwell translate the word 'edrebouhon - beat them' as 'scourge them'. [...] But "a beating without causing injury" (agreed upon) "So the man has the right to beat his rebellious wife as long as that beating is not like the whipping of the slave and will not result in injury."



Of course the above is false and tendentious but couched in the syrupy style typical of missionaries.

The hadith in Muslim states that the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif in his Farewell Pilgrimage said: "Lo! My last recommendation to you is that you should TREAT WOMEN WELL. Truly they are your helpmates, and you have no right over them beyond that - EXCEPT IF THEY COMMIT A MANIFEST INDECENCY (fahisha mubina = adultery). If they do, then refuse to share their beds and beat them WITHOUT INDECENT VIOLENCE (fadribuhunna darban ghayra mubarrih*). Then, if they obey you, do not show them hostility any longer. Lo! you have a right over your women and they have a right over you. Your right over your women is that they not allow whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house. While their right over them is that you treat them excellently in their garb and provision."

*** Then he http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif took the covenant from them and from us that they and we all heard and understood this from him, respectively, directly and indirectly, with his forefinger raised, and said: "O Allah! bear witness." ***

After this, whatever Muslim man derogates to the recommendation of the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif has violated his covenant with the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif and shall be called to account for it; and whoever of the non-Muslim men or women claims - even the Archbishop of Canterbury and his wife - that beating women is allowed in Islam, has belied the Divine witness invoked by the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif and shall be called to account for it in the Divine Court.

*"Mubarrih" is defined in al-Mawrid as "violent, intense, severe, acute, sharp, excruciating, tormenting, agonizing." Qatada said as narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (5:68): "Ghayr mubarrih means ghayr sha'in = not disgraceful/ outrageous/ obscene/ indecent ." Muhammad Asad translates it over-figuratively as "not causing pain."



3. What is the evidence for saying that this 'striking' is in fact only supposed to be carried out with something small, like a miswak?




`Ata' said: "I asked Ibn `Abbas: 'What is the hitting that is ghayr al-mubarrih?' He replied: '[With] the siwak and the like'." Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (Dar al-Fikr reprint 5:68).



Al-Razi (3:222) mentions that as a rule (a) it must be a light beating and (b) the face must be avoided. He added that certain of the Shafi`i jurists said "a coiled scarf (mindil malfuf) (NB: NOT "a folded handkerchief" as mistranslated by Asad) or his hand may be used but not a whip nor a stick."





4. Where is the hadith found in which the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif said to a servant-girl who had been extremely late "If I were not afraid of Allah, I would hit you with this" referring to a miswak?




Ibn Sa`d in al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, Al-Tabarani in al-Mu`jam al-Kabir, Abu Ya`la in his Musnad, Abu Nu`aym in Hilyat al-Awliya' and al-Hakim in al-Mustadrak narrated from Umm Salama: "The Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif was in my house and there was a siwak in his hand. He called for Wasifa [the servant-girl] to come to him or to her but she tarried until anger was visible on his face. So Umm Salama went out to her and found her playing with an animal. She said to her: "You are playing while the Messenger of Allah is calling you?" She replied: "No, by the one who sent you with truth! I did not hear you." Whereupon the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif said: "Were it not for fear of exaction (qawad) on the Day of Resurrection, I should surely make you sore (la'awja`tuki) with this toothpick."



Al-Munawi in Fayd al-Qadir mentioned that al-Mundhiri and al-Haythami declared its chain of transmission good. Al-Suyuti graded the hadith "fair" (hasan) in al-Jami` al-Saghir. Al-Muttaqi cited it in Kanz al-`Ummal (#39820, 39821, 39829).



[b][i]5. What is the exact meaning of 'nushuz'? It is translated as disobedience, but there seem to be others who think it means something more like 'ill-will' or 'hostility' or 'ill-treatment'.




It depends on context and how these terms are themselves understood by those who use them. Ill-treatment on the part of a wife to her husband, for example, is a bit different from ill-treatment on the part of a grocer to his customer.

Nushuz is translated "Recalcitrance, disobedience, violation of marital duties on the part of the wife" in al-Mawrid Ar-Eng Dictionary.

Nushuz in the verse, as shown, is an euphemism for adultery because her primary marital duty is spelled out in the hadith as "not allowing whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house." Al-Maziri also said that another interpretation of the words in that hadith said it referred to a woman sitting in seclusion with a stranger inside her husband's house. (Al-Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim.)

6. Is it not true that slapping someone on the face is not allowed in Islam? Is there a consensus on this point?




It is a transgression requiring exaction (qawad) which can be changed into monetary compensation (diyya) in the Four Schools, and Allah knows best.

Examples: (a) the famous hadith from Mu`awiya ibn al-Hakam in Sahih Muslim of the black woman slave whom her owner slaps and is then obligated to manumit as her compensation.

(b) Also in Sahih Muslim, the example of Suwayd ibn Muqarrin who saw a man slap his female slave and told him: "Do you not know that the face is taboo? (al-sura muharrama) I, whom you see in front of you, the seventh of my brothers, was with the Messenger of Allah and we only had one servant; one of us slapped him, so the Messenger of Allah commanded us to free him."

(c) A man from the Ansar insulted al-`Abbas's father who lived in the Time of Ignorance, whereupon al-`Abbas slapped him. The man returned to his people who said: "By Allah, we shall slap him just as he slapped him," and they girded their weapons. News of this reached the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif who ascended the pulpit and said: "O people! Who among the dwellers of the earth is deemed most honorable in the presence of Allah?" They said, "You." He continued: "And al-`Abbas is part of me, and I am part of him. Do not insult our dead, thereby harming our living." The people then came to the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif and said: "O Messenger of Allah! We seek refuge in Allah from your anger." Narrated from Ibn `Abbas by Ahmad and al-Nasa'i with a sound chain according to al-`Iraqi in Takhrij Ahadith al-Ihya', also al-Tabarani in al-Mu`jam al-Kabir.

Al-Sindi in his commentary on al-Nasa'i's Sunan said: "Since he had begun with the insult, the slap received was not to obtain retaliation."

Note that the directive of the above hadith was royally ignored by the Wahhabi preacher of the Prophet's Mosque in Madina, Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri, who used to shout at the top of his lungs, right next to al-Mustafa http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif?: "The father and mother of the Prophet are in hellfire! The father and mother of the Prophet are in hellfire!" and so until his death last year. I wonder, should we believe that Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri and his parents are in Paradise, while the parents of the Prophet Muhammad http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif are in hellfire? Hasbuna Allah.

The ruling of automatic manumission for striking a slave in the face is estalished by the following hadith of the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif:

(d) "Whoever strikes his slave in the face or beats him unjustly, his expiation is to manumit him." Narrated from Ibn `Umar by Muslim in his Sahih.

The ruling that the face is taboo is established by the following hadith of the Prophet http://www.abc.se/~m9783/fiqhi/durood.gif:

(e) "If you fight your brother, avoid striking the face, for Allah created Adam in his image." Narrated from Abu Hurayra by Muslim and al-Bukhari, the latter without the words "your brother." If this is forbidden while fighting or when interacting with a slave, then a fortiori it is forbidden outside fighting and with one's wife.

Do not be misled by the Satanic whispers of domini.org which states:

"The occasion in which Q 4:34 was revealed sheds more light on the meaning of that verse. Most commentators mention that the above verse was revealed in connection with a woman who complained to Mohammad that her husband slapped her on the face (which was still marked by the slap). At first the Prophet said to her: 'Get even with him', but then added : 'Wait until I think about it.' Later on the above verse was revealed, after which the Prophet said: 'We wanted one thing but Allah wanted another, and what Allah wanted is best.'[Razi, At-tafsir al-Kabir, on Q. 4:34.]"

Crafty, crafty, and all for what? lies. Ars longa, vita brevis!

The commentators also mention that this report is narrated only from al-Hasan al-Basri who is NOT a Companion. The most that can be said of it here is that it is a weak, isolated, mursal Tabi`i report that does not have probative force.

What is more, al-Hasan himself flatly contradicts the above as he reportedly explained {wadribuhunna} to mean: "hitting that is not obscene; hitting that *does not leave a trace*" (darban ghayra mubarrih ghayra mu'aththir). Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (Dar al-Fikr reprint 5:68).

And Allah Most High knows best.

{Wa Makaru wa Makara Allah wAllahu Khayru-l-Makirin}

{Yuridun an yutfi'u Nur Allah bi Afwahihim wa Ya'ba Allah

Illa an Yatimma Nurahu wa law Kariha al-Kafirun}

Blessings and peace of Allah on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions.

Hajj Gibril GF Haddad ©

www.sunnipath.com (http://www.sunnipath.com)

[kaleem26]

bismillah ar rahman ir rahim,

those who slander the mujahideen, those who call for the word of allah swt to be forgotten and changed just as the jews and christians have done, by all accounts when niseeha is given unto them and they reject-they should be banned from this forum. the only ones who will miss them are their kafir loving friends, they have not contributed to this forum except mainly slander against sincere muslims and a perverted sense of defending kufr over islam. and their knowledge is nothing but jahillyah. they will not be missed.

bye bye to brother hassan and mariam. may allah swt guide you both.

[faqir]

<BIG>I start beating my second wife after getting a phone call from my first wife. She is pregnant and starts crying, after sometime I get cool down. Is it due to black magic of first wife or Jin at home </BIG>

<SMALL></SMALL>



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<SMALL>It is a shame upon you that;

1. As a man, you hit a woman;
2. and that she is your wife;
3. and that she is pregnant.

You are to be blamed for all that, not black magic, or your first wife or a Jinn. You should endervour to reform yourself and until then behave. Offer your wife sincere apology and make up for the wrong you have done. You should also make istighfaar your entire life and regret the incident. Beg Allah not to hold to and hold you back in His court on the day of judgment for abusing your wife.

Men who abuse their wives should never be unmindful of Allah’s wrath and punishment. Allah is All-Seeing and All-Hearing. Fear Allah.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai</SMALL>

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[amal]

bye bye to brother hassan and mariam. may allah swt guide you both.Its not the case to say bye ,bye none of them.

[faqir]

Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching, and argue with them in ways that are best

[ZawjatuRaafi]

shukran for posting these letters of daleel Faqir.

Oh i meant to say that if i am being beaten in such an abusive way I am gonna grab something lol... not if it is done according to quran... didnt want to sound like i was going against something... lolol

amal i didnt understand your last statement

[kaleem26]

my post was in reference to those modernist, sold out muslims, who look up to their kafir masters and do sujood to them. but the slander many of these fudge muslims have done against sincere muslims is discouraging and best to cut off the cancerous disease these muslims carry in this forum before it spreads. there knowledge lacks ilm. our duas is that allah swt guides them and us, amin.


there are many good non muslims and sincere muslims on this board who are plentiful enough for good discussions to carry on, chocolate muslims should not be given a voice.

would you give voice to someone who openly calls for allah swt book to be neglected? no.

would you give voice to someone who insults the sincere mujahideen of islam? no.

would you give voice to the disillusioned modernists who twist islam? no.


we as muslims do not cater for those who call to change the deen of allah swt after it has been perfected. ask questions, but to continually call for its change when we know its perfect ,and you have been shown, then its bye bye.

hold tight to the rope of allah and be not divided, i dont wish ill on any of these sold out muslims either, rather allah swt rahma cloak them so they may see theri errors.

[jamila]

Faqir has again posted what Seven posted earlier. If anyone would read the conduct and orders of the Prophet, solla allahu alayhi wassalam, one would see there is no need for new ijtehad. The need is to educate Muslim men (and women) concerning what the Messenger of Allah ordered in terms of decent behaviour and restraint. If they go against these plain recommendations they are sinning and Allah will exact revenge on them on behalf of the women abused.

They ought to get that in their (the advocaters of wife beating at the drop of the hat out of mere irritation) noggins.

[marjan]

ok so basically husbands can hit their wives, but how hard? If it leaves marks would that be naughty.

A lot of wife beaters never hit women on the face because the evidence would literally be 'written all over her face'. Hit a woman on her body and she can hide the bruises.

[Chained_Water]

ok so basically husbands can hit their wives, but how hard? If it leaves marks would that be naughty.

A lot of wife beaters never hit women on the face because the evidence would literally be 'written all over her face'. Hit a woman on her body and she can hide the bruises.
If I remember correctly, thats exactly what part of sevens article said.. don't hit the face.. and don't leave marks..

but you can get a beating that really causes pain and still not have marks from it

[Friend]

If only walking away was as easy as that. If children are involved, its even harder to leave.

Also, doesn't the wife need her husband's permission to leave in the 1st place? I think i read tht somewhere. And as if he'd say "of course you can leave" !

WsIf someone is being abused I think getting permission to leave is so unfair and cruel. If the women had children she should take them too because usually a man who beats his wife beats his children too.

Peace to all....

[jamila]

ok so basically husbands can hit their wives, but how hard? If it leaves marks would that be naughty.

A lot of wife beaters never hit women on the face because the evidence would literally be 'written all over her face'. Hit a woman on her body and she can hide the bruises.It is FORBIDDEN to strike a person in the face, or even an animal. The prophet, solla allahu alayhi wassalam, once struck Aisha, rodia allahu anha, between her breasts (on her chest) he caught her following him out secretly in the night (when he visited a graveyard) and trying to hide it from him.

[jamila]

The prophet, solla allahu alayhi wassalam, once struck Aisha, rodia allahu anha, between her breasts (on her chest) he caught her following him out secretly in the night (when he visited a graveyard) and trying to hide it from him.Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother?



We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth.

He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'A'isha who had narrated this:

Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)?
We said: Yes.
He said: She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly.

I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house).

I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath?

I said: There is nothing.

He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me.

I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story).

He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me?

I said: Yes.

He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?

She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it.

He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened.

He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi' (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them.

I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)?

He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you.


SAHIH MUSLIM

[jamila]

It is FORBIDDEN to strike a person in the face, or even an animal. Suwaid b. Muqarrin reported that he had a slave-girl and a person (one of the members of the family) slapped her, whereupon Suwaid said to him: Don't you know that it is forbidden (to strike the) face.



He said: You see I was the seventh one amongst my brothers during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and we had but only one servant. One of us got enraged and slapped her. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) commanded us to set her free.


SAHIH MUSLIM

[Baby Paw]

Women are to be loved and not to be used and abused.
I don't mean like all women, cos that ain't allowed.
I mean wifey.

[kaleem26]

for mariam and hassan regarding their issue about ''itjihaad''

QUOTE:


<!--QuoteEBegin-->Quran says: "As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands", but during the year of famine - which resembled the case of plight, Caliph Umar suspended the penalty for theft in view of the verse "Whosoever is forced to transgress the laws without violating the laws, then there is no sin against him" Taken from hassan post.
<!--QuoteEnd-->
<!--QuoteEEnd-->

Firstly, we would like to see the asaneed of what he has quoted about 'Umar prior.

Secondly, Ijtihaad does not mean changing the laws. Rather it means applying the laws. As we can see in the example that you have given, one of the exceptions for the hadd for stealing is necessity. There is ijmaa' of the 'Ulamaa upon this. This has absolutely no correlation to "hitting one's wife" if you see evil coming from her. Obviously this hit isn't even hard enough to leave a mark etc. The goal is not to inflict pain. Why is it that you turn to 'Umar, yet you do not explain "beat them" based upon the authentic statements of the beloved, most perfect example, Muhammad ibn Abdillah <!--emo&:SAAWS:-->http://www.revivingislam.com/style_emoticons/default/SAAWS.gif<!--endemo-->?

The fact is, Ijtihaad is a struggle to implement the Shari'ah based upon the situation. It simply does not mean that we should stop implementing a law because your hawaa (desires-whims) deems it unfit.

What a ridiculous notion. You have no proof to defend your stance, and you are judging this issue based upon your nafs al ammarah bis soo' with the Qasd of "REFORMING" or shall I say CHANGING Islaam and its perfect laws!

Abul Layth <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_5966-->

[Semantic]

Um.

Anyone ever heard of masalih mursala?

Anyone?

Some of y'all need to chill out and actually read some fiqh books.

It'll do you good.

Islam is not a static nor homogeneous whole, ok?

And people who physically abuse their wives are **** (until or unless they repent sincerely to Allah (swt) for their sinful ways, as well as seeking recompense from she they have wronged).

[AbuMubarak]

as salaamu alaikum

Ya Know I have been reading through this whole thread in just utter disbelief at the direction it has went. Subhanaa Allah people what has happened to your fasting. Is this really the attitudes we should be taking with one another... I see so much hostility from so many people subhanaa Allah... May Allah guide us all Ameen!!!

In looking through this thread, it starts off with a scenario of a couple and their problems. Common problems, where sadly the end result was that this woman died (of other causes from what I gathered) and this poor child has been left off to be raised away from the beautiful deen she was born into subhanaa Allah may Allah guide her aright Ameen...

Now with all that it has turned into bannings, ijtihad, Proper hijaab I mean really everyone is it always that when posting a post it must turn into controversy?

As to how things have been dealt with on the thread with regards to its members. I dont want to go far into Brother Hassans character, but I will say that if the reasons for banning (and i am sure inshaa Allah the niyaat behind it was correct) are because of statements of making that which is permissable impermissable and vice versa, this is not something that is a new issue. This has been addressed as long as I have been on this forum. It has been an issue that has been tolerated for quite some time. But this is simply something that WE CANNOT DO!!! You cannot say I enjoin that which is good and forbid that which is evil (or not good) and sit by and watch and partake in such statements and say you base your life on this statement. So if the ban is there and I personally see just cause for it not that my opinion matters to most of you here, the ban is there you keep moving. Inshaa Allah maybe the brother will see his err and correct his thinking because clearly it is of misguidance to make statements of such.

I for one am a woman, and a muslimah al hamdulillah, and in being that I have no problem with the ayat that is referred to. See because NO wife in my opinion should ever allow things to go to that degree... A Muslim wife fears Allah, and knows that with the pleasure of her husband, by her hand, she has gained the pleasure of Allah. This is the ultimate goal in Islam. Allahs pleasure! If my husband comes to me with what he is seeing in my behavior and I dont rectify my ways, causing it to go to further steps of him say leaving my bed. Well I know I need to check myself, cause I know the steps that follow according to Quran and Sunnah. So if I am choosing to rebel in such a manner and it has to come to that level then maybe it will bring some humility to the situation. Now with that said I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT BEATING A WOMAN DOWN!!! NOR AM I TALKING ABOUT BEATING HER CAUSE SHE DIDNT COOK THE CHICKEN RIGHT 3 TIMES IN A ROW. I am talking about issues that matter, she is consistently stealing from the household, she is not covering, she is doing something that is truly taking her from the folds of Islam, and this form of rebellion can damage not only her but the family as a whole. And I am not saying that this is what was meant when the ayat was sent down. But I think if we as Muslims use hikmah in our affairs we will find that there is appropriate ways of dealing with things, and these measures shouldnt have to come this far. But sadly we as women can tick and do some stuff that is just very emotionally off base, we can take things too far, and men can often not have the patience or tolerance we may have expected them to have. Either way BEATING YOUR WIFE DOWN is a very big difference then what I understand the ayat to mean...

But as a non muslim or even a new muslim it can be very difficult to see beyond just the words in your english KORAN or Qur'an. This was one of the first issues I had to tackle in coming to Islam, I needed to understand this and al hamdulillah I have come to terms with it. We as people have to read between the lines from time to time everything is not as black and white as we want to make it. There is much hikmah in this but it is how you choose to perceive it...

As far as speaking on that which you are not truly understanding, Yes I will agree it is one thing to voice an opinion, I think that what the issue seems to be just from observation, is that when you really arent certain and you do voice your opinion and someone tells you this thinking is incorrect and then takes it further and provides daleel to prove this thinking is incorrect, and you continue to argue your point. Your point becomes mute, people stop hearing it as being just someone who didnt know and made a mistake and it turns into someone who refuses to recognize that someone with more knowledge even in just that one thing is correct and maybe it is best to stop arguing it and try to learn from it. This is humility mashaa Allah. May Allah provide us all with it, AMEEN! We all from the newest in deen to the oldest in deen need to realize there is SO much to learn in Islam and no matter how much we study we will never understand Islam in the fullest of its capacities and therefore we have to stop and learn from one another and not always feel we have so much to say. And with that said I will get off my soapbox inshaa Allah it just really saddens me to see all this taking place. When there really is so much so very much more important that could be taking place right now subhanaa Allah...

Sorry for the length but HEY you all know me lol... May Allah and you all forgive me for anything I may have said that was offensive, and if I said anything that was incorrect may Allah and you all forgive me, may Allah rectify all our affairs, and shortcomings and grant us the ability to walk on the siratul Mustaqim Ameen...wallahi, this is one of my favorite posts ever

i hope all of our sisters read it and reflect

[ZawjatuRaafi]

okay that got a smile :) although I trust it was not said off bias or anything but in hopes it was because it was somewhat on a right path but smiles all the same...

[abdulhakeem]

Islam's Wife-Beating (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33857)

[outlandish]

bismillah ar rahman ir rahim,

those who slander the mujahideen, those who call for the word of allah swt to be forgotten and changed just as the jews and christians have done, by all accounts when niseeha is given unto them and they reject-they should be banned from this forum. the only ones who will miss them are their kafir loving friends, they have not contributed to this forum except mainly slander against sincere muslims and a perverted sense of defending kufr over islam. and their knowledge is nothing but jahillyah. they will not be missed.

bye bye to brother hassan and mariam. may allah swt guide you both.Well what a nice way of talking about ur bro and sis in islaam and that too in radaman. Just coz they dont think in the same lines as supposed to be good muslims are by ppl whom have put standards here to what makes a good muslim or not,u make them out to be so bad?Bro Hassan is not here,so ur backbiting by talking about him like this. Yesterday i was reading how reward for good deeds get multiplied in ramadan,but at the same time if u do a bad deed as well,u get more punishment than normal..
I have seen a lot of good contributions they made to this forum as well,but as they say if ur heart is blinded by hate and self conceit u fail to see the good what is there as well

[Chained_Water]

okay that got a smile :) although I trust it was not said off bias or anything but in hopes it was because it was somewhat on a right path but smiles all the same...
;) aww

come on.. there has to be some bias in it, but it's definately allowed :inlove:

lol

[AbuMubarak]

the rage we have for these kafir women, may we also have at least a little more rage when american soldiers rape muslim women


Abu Ghraib Prison Attacked In Response To "Fatima's Letter"
At approximately 12:25pm on Saturday, resistance fighters waged an unprecedented assault on the Abu Ghraib prison camp south of Baghdad. The assault was sparked by a letter from a female prisoner named Fatima that fueled some Muslim fighters into action.

Fatima's letter, a hand written document, was recently smuggled out of Abu Ghraib. Fatima is the sister of one of the celebrated Resistance fighters in the area. US occupation forces raided his house some time back but failed to find him, so they took his sister prisoner in an attempt to force him to give himself up. JUS reported the incident at the time and it was said that this family is known for their piety and uprightness.

Here is Fatima's letter as originally published in Arabic by Mafkarat al-Islam and translated to English by Muhammad Abu Nasr of Free Arab Voice

Fatima's Letter

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Mercy-giving. "Say He is God the One; God the Source [of everything]; Not has He fathered, nor has He been fathered; nor is anything comparable to Him." [Qur'an, Surat 112 "al-Ikhlas"]

I chose this noble Surah from the Book of God because it has the greatest impact on me and on all of you and it strikes a particular kind of awe in the hearts of Believers.

My brother Mujahideen in the path of God! What can I say to you? I say to you: our wombs have been filled with the children of fornication by those sons of apes and pigs who raped us. Or I could tell you that they have defaced our bodies, spit in our faces, and tore up the little copies of the Qur'an that hung around our necks? God is greatest! Can you not comprehend our situation? Is it true that you do not know what is happening to us? We are your sisters. God will be calling you to account [about this] tomorrow.

By God, we have not passed one night since we have been in prison without one of the apes and pigs jumping down upon us to rip our bodies apart with his overweening lust. And we are the ones who had guarded our virginity out of fear of God. Fear God! Kill us along with them! Destroy us along with them! Don't leave us here to let them get pleasure from raping us! It will be an act to ennoble the Throne of Almighty God. Fear God regarding us! Leave their tanks and aircraft outside. Come at us here in the prison of Abu Ghurayb.

I am your sister in God (Fatimah). They raped me on one day more than nine times. Can you comprehend? Imagine one of your sisters being raped. Why can't you all imagine it, as I am your sister. With me are 13 girls, all unmarried. All have been raped before the eyes and ears of everyone.

They won't let us pray. They took our clothes and won't let us get dressed. As I write this letter one of the girls has committed suicide. She was savagely raped. A soldier hit her on her chest and thigh after raping her. He subjected her to unbelievable torture. She beat her head against the wall of the cell until she died, for she couldn't take any more, even though suicide is forbidden in Islam. But I excuse that girl. I have hope that God will forgive her, because He is the Most Merciful of all.

Brothers, I tell you again, fear God! Kill us with them so that we might be at peace. Help! Help! Help! [Wa Mu'atasima!]




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subsequently, approximately 100 resistance fighters launched a fierce attack on the prison, forcing US troops to take cover inside their barracks within the compound. Fighters pounded the Americans with barrages of 82mm and 120mm mortar rounds. Large crowds of people gathered outside, fearful that the bombardment might harm the prisoners but they were assured by the fighters that they knew the layout of the prison camp very well.

Mafkarat al-Islam's correspondent in Baghdad reported that the fighters succeeded in destroying part of the walls of the prison camp, blasting a hole four meters long in the inner and outer fences that encircled the camp.

The fate of Fatima and the other woman with her is unknown.

On a final note, an individual responded to Fatima's letter yesterday on the Ansar site and wrote:

"Sorry, sister, we are not men. Only true men can answer your cry for help. Men are in a very short supply these days. Sorry again sister."

It is comments like these that speak to the lack of honor and duty that characterizes many Muslims today. At JUS, we have insisted that rape has been going on since the occupiers landed their muddy boots in Iraq, which has for the most part, fallen on dead ears. We feel great frustration and failure over the receipt of Fatima's letter because we know there are many more Fatimas being raped in prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan and many other sisters who are being violated who are not in captivity. What must we do to make these voices heard and where are the Muslim men to defend their honor?

In previous times, glory and honor were integrated into the lives of Muslims as part of the complete system of Islam. For instance, a man tied the end of that woman's dress to a chair while she was shopping and when she got up, a portion of her private parts became visible. She screamed "Wa Mu'atasima", calling for the Khalif himself. The Khalif wrote this letter to the head of the cross worshipper's state:

"To the dog of Rome, I am coming to you with an army whose front is at your door and whose rear is right here"

This is honor and glory in action for something much less than rape. This is an army instead of 100 fighters. Those were the days when Muslim men could be found.?

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