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chimera
29-08-12, 03:12 AM
Al-ħayyu l-qayyuum, the Living, the Eternal, is the Islamic form of the name of God in the Hebrew Book. There it is "I am what I am". In Arabic that is " 'ana man 'ana " , a different verb from "living". How do we connect the 2 names ?

AsadullahHamza
29-08-12, 08:11 AM
No soul has authority over another. Guidance and straying is a matter between God and you.


aakwr-Allah-wb-Hu


Do we need to connect "AlHayy AlQayyum" with "I am what I am"?

Jazak-Allah


alhamd li Allah Rabb alaalameen.


la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Al-'Atheemu Al-Haleemu, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbul 'arshil-'atheemi,
la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbus-samaawaati wa Rabbul-ardhi wa Rabbul-'arshil-kareemi
there is no god except Allah, the All-Mighty, the Forbearing; there is no god except Allah, the Lord of the Mighty Throne;
there is no god except Allah, Lord of the heavens, Lord of the earth and Lord of the noble Throne.

chimera
29-08-12, 12:25 PM
yes.
["Yahweh in the Quran

By Ebrahim Saifuddin

He is not associated with Discoveringislam.org

( Source: http://islam.thetruecall.com )



There are Christians who tend to make a point that the Bible mentions in Exodus 3:14 that the name of God is “Yahweh” or “Jehovah” (depends on where one puts the vowels) but this name does not appear in the Quran. Hence they claim that the Quran cannot be the Word of God and Prophet Muhammad (saw) cannot be a Messenger of God, because there is no reference to the personal name of God which appears in the Old Testament 6823 times. "]

ahmed_abdullah
29-08-12, 12:34 PM
:salams
:start:

The name - Yahweh or Jehovah , is only found in particular sets of bible.However in hebrew bible which is Torah, it is not found and most of the rabbis say that it is unlawful to read such a word.In Islam, we have been given with 99 names of Allah and we are content with it alhumdulilah.

MountKnowledge
29-08-12, 12:55 PM
The Explanation of Ayatul- Kursi by Shaykh 'Abdur-Rahman Bin Sa'adi - http://www.scribd.com/doc/85314667/The-Explanation-of-Ayatul-Kursi-by-Shaykh-Abdur-Rahman-Bin-Sa-adi - The meaning of "Al- Hayy , Al- Qayyum" "The Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists..." is in this document.

The Beautiful Names and Lofty Attributes - Shaikh ’Abdul-’Azz ibn ’Abdullh bin Bz - The Beautiful Names and Lofty Attributes - Shaikh ’Abdul-’Azz ibn ’Abdullh bin Bz

AsadullahHamza
29-08-12, 01:56 PM
No soul has authority over another. Guidance and straying is a matter between God and you.


aakwr-Allah-wb-Hu



There are Christians who tend to make a point that the Bible mentions in Exodus 3:14 that the name of God is “Yahweh” or “Jehovah” (depends on where one puts the vowels) but this name does not appear in the Quran. Hence they claim that the Quran cannot be the Word of God and Prophet Muhammad (saw) cannot be a Messenger of God, because there is no reference to the personal name of God which appears in the Old Testament 6823 times. "

Jazak-Allah

Assuming the veracity of the Hebrew transmission:

YHWH is supposed to be have been derived from the root "hawa" which is believed to imply "to be" or "exist", and is not related to the Arabic root "hayy" (which denotes life or livingness).

The word [in Exodus 3:14] which is translated as "I am" also derives from "hawa" {to be}, and (like YHWH) it too is not related to the Arabic "hayy" {living}. I probably could afford 3:14 a more detailed look, but I am not sure if it is required over here.

Interestingly, there does exist in the Hebrew language a cognate for the Arabic "hayy" -- it is pronounced in a similar way and carries a similar meaning.

And, even better, the Quranic description, "Al-Hayy Al-Qayyum" is found, almost verbatim, in the Old Testament.

Daniel 6.26: It is decreed by me, that in all my empire and my kingdom all men dread and fear the God of Daniel. For he is the living and eternal God for ever: and his kingdom shall not be destroyed, and his power shall be for ever.

I believe that the words that I have emphasized read "hayya wa qayyam" in the Hebrew text. And it does pleasantly surprise some of our non-Muslim brethren.


alhamd li Allah Rabb alaalameen.


la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Al-'Atheemu Al-Haleemu, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbul 'arshil-atheemi,
la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbus-samaawaati wa Rabbul-ardhi wa Rabbul-'arshil-kareemi
there is no god except Allah, the All-Mighty, the Forbearing; there is no god except Allah, the Lord of the Mighty Throne;
there is no god except Allah, Lord of the heavens, Lord of the earth and Lord of the noble Throne.

chimera
29-08-12, 09:50 PM
The expressions about eternal and living are descriptions, just as Merciful is an adjective but is not the noun "Allah".
The Heb name is "eyeh asher eyeh" as Ar. "ana man ana", and has a double verb, in Eng. "am.>.am" or "will be.>. will be".
It is this specified Name of God that doesn't carry from the Heb Book to the Islamic Book.

AsadullahHamza
30-08-12, 03:07 AM
No soul has authority over another. Guidance and straying is a matter between God and you.


aakwr-Allah-wb-Hu


The expressions about eternal and living are descriptions, just as Merciful is an adjective but is not the noun "Allah".
The Heb name is "eyeh asher eyeh" as Ar. "ana man ana", and has a double verb, in Eng. "am.>.am" or "will be.>. will be".
It is this specified Name of God that doesn't carry from the Heb Book to the Islamic Book.

I wanted to clarify that given the veracity of the Hebrew transmission:

1. The Hebraic and Arabic "hyy" and "qyym" are supposed to bear no relation to "hawa" from which yahweh or ehyeh are derived.

2. The Quranic formula "AlHayy AlQayyum" is present in the Old Testament in an almost verbatim manner, and this in itself is quite impressive.

Given the points above, I don't see how (or why) we may force a connection between "AlHayy AlQayyum" and "I am who I am".

Moreover, if we leave aside "hyy" (and "qyym") and talk about Exodus 3:14 itself, then this verse, rather than being loaded against the Quran, is loaded against the Bible. Also, the formula "AlHayy AlAqyyum" does not appear in the Quran even half a dozen times, while YHWH appears in the Bible, as per your quote, 6500+ times. Finally, a word or concept that appears in the Bible need not appear in the Quran.

[Due respect to the writer whom you quoted, but his article depends heavily on the jewishencyclopedia.com entry and many will easily point out that the entry exercises much liberty, even though it itself states very clearly that the root form is "to be".] If you still want to persist with that line, then you might also want to consider "AlSamad" which has apparently posed quite a challenge to lexicographers and translators alike, and is variously explained using one or more of "Eternal", "Absolute", "Living" "Self-Sufficient", "Uncaused Cause" and other words.


alhamd li Allah Rabb alaalameen.


la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Al-'Atheemu Al-Haleemu, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbul 'arshil-'atheemi,
la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbus-samaawaati wa Rabbul-ardhi wa Rabbul-'arshil-kareemi
there is no god except Allah, the All-Mighty, the Forbearing; there is no god except Allah, the Lord of the Mighty Throne;
there is no god except Allah, Lord of the heavens, Lord of the earth and Lord of the noble Throne.

chimera
30-08-12, 03:48 AM
Yes we agreed that hyy / qyym are separate from hawa. It was claimed that al-ħayyu l-qayyuum has the closest meaning to YHWH but they are different. Yes, the adjectives are similar to Daniel 6.26, and Dan 9:1-19 has "Jehovah" 13 times as a different expression.
How is Ex 3.14 "loaded against the Bible"? If God specifies in the Heb Book the name he calls himself , and the Islamic text is from a prophet of that God, then it would be consistent to find the name in the Koran.

AsadullahHamza
30-08-12, 04:43 AM
No soul has authority over another. Guidance and straying is a matter between God and you.


aakwr-Allah-wb-Hu



How is Ex 3.14 "loaded against the Bible"?

I wanted to make a change to my earlier statement, but an edit is not possible now. I wrote:

Moreover, if we leave aside "hyy" (and "qyym") and talk about Exodus 3:14 itself, then this verse, rather than being loaded against the Quran, is loaded against the Bible.

And it should read:

Moreover, if we leave aside "hyy" (and "qyym") and talk about Exodus 3:14 itself, then the accepted understanding of this verse, rather than being loaded against the Quran, is loaded against the Bible.


If God specifies in the Heb Book the name he calls himself , and the Islamic text is from a prophet of that God, then it would be consistent to find the name in the Koran.

Simplified answers to these would be:

1. Is it "ehyeh asher ehyeh", "ehyeh" or "yahweh"; what is God's reply to the question posed by Moses?

2. The "if" is a big "if".

There are some long-drawn arguments which I used to put up in days gone by, but I am done with arguing with others; insha Allah, somebody else will provide further information.


alhamd li Allah Rabb alaalameen.


la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Al-'Atheemu Al-Haleemu, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbul 'arshil-'atheemi,
la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbus-samaawaati wa Rabbul-ardhi wa Rabbul-'arshil-kareemi
there is no god except Allah, the All-Mighty, the Forbearing; there is no god except Allah, the Lord of the Mighty Throne;
there is no god except Allah, Lord of the heavens, Lord of the earth and Lord of the noble Throne.

AsadullahHamza
30-08-12, 04:59 AM
No soul has authority over another. Guidance and straying is a matter between God and you.


aakwr-Allah-wb-Hu



There are some long-drawn arguments which I used to put up in days gone by, but I am done with arguing with others

Umm..what I mean is that now I usually argue against myself and a few very close friends; it does slow down the process, but has its own advantages. May Allah <AlRahman AlRaheem> grant success to truth through you and others.


alhamd li Allah Rabb alaalameen.


la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Al-'Atheemu Al-Haleemu, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbul 'arshil-'atheemi,
la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbus-samaawaati wa Rabbul-ardhi wa Rabbul-'arshil-kareemi
there is no god except Allah, the All-Mighty, the Forbearing; there is no god except Allah, the Lord of the Mighty Throne;
there is no god except Allah, Lord of the heavens, Lord of the earth and Lord of the noble Throne.

chimera
30-08-12, 11:47 AM
The forms of God's name in Exodus are based on the same expression, with YHWH being expanded. It's similar to "Allah" being expanded to "Allah u-akbar". If too much of the earlier prophets' books is rejected, there is a danger of saying that God is incapable of having his words preserved. That then may intrude into the Koran..

AsadullahHamza
30-08-12, 01:34 PM
No soul has authority over another. Guidance and straying is a matter between God and you.


aakwr-Allah-wb-Hu


Peace.


alhamd li Allah Rabb alaalameen.


la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Al-'Atheemu Al-Haleemu, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbul 'arshil-'atheemi,
la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbus-samaawaati wa Rabbul-ardhi wa Rabbul-'arshil-kareemi
there is no god except Allah, the All-Mighty, the Forbearing; there is no god except Allah, the Lord of the Mighty Throne;
there is no god except Allah, Lord of the heavens, Lord of the earth and Lord of the noble Throne.

talib as-safa
30-08-12, 05:13 PM
The forms of God's name in Exodus are based on the same expression, with YHWH being expanded. It's similar to "Allah" being expanded to "Allah u-akbar". If too much of the earlier prophets' books is rejected, there is a danger of saying that God is incapable of having his words preserved. That then may intrude into the Koran..

That's a flimsly argument. God not being capable of preserving His words is different to God being capable of doing so but willing to do otherwise.

It's on these simple points of logic that christian polemics fall to the ground.

Your main argument, namely that if God mentioned 'Yahweh' in two of his revelations, he must mention it in another revelation, is again a baseless assumption. God is capable of all things, and no one can obligate anything on Him - it is absolutely up to Him whether he mentions a specific name of His in one revelation or another. That's another assumption debunked!

chimera
30-08-12, 10:54 PM
That is interesting. Then God chooses to let his words be corrupted and chooses not to have his name in the Koran.
It's like a bank cheque which is signed becomes false, and the unsigned cheque is true. The second cheque is the proof that the first is false. Do Islamic banks agree with that?

talib as-safa
30-08-12, 11:10 PM
It's like a bank cheque which is signed becomes false, and the unsigned cheque is true. The second cheque is the proof that the first is false. Do Islamic banks agree with that?

It seems you're blind to the assumption you're making - that Jehova is God's true and only name, as opposed to be being one name amongst many. This is an assumption we do not accept, and we demand proof for. Many Jews, Christians and modern biblical scholars don't agree with you, let alone the Muslims. Even if you were to argue on the basis of the OT/NT, we do not accept the authenticity of judeo-christian scriptures as they exist in their current form.


Then God chooses to let his words be corrupted

Yes, just like God chooses for babies to starve to death in Africa. Unlike you, I'm glad to say, we do not have the 'problem of evil' in Islam. God wills everything - the good and the evil. If you're not even familliar with the basic tenents of Islamic belief, why not do some homework before attempting to sow the seeds of your ridiculous religion here?

chimera
31-08-12, 12:17 AM
Then God chooses to let his words be corrupted and chooses not to have his name in the Koran.
That is like a signed bank cheque being false and an unsigned cheque being the true one. The unsigned one proves the signed one to be false. Do Islamic banks agree with that?

chimera
31-08-12, 12:25 AM
sorry, posts 15-16 did not appear on my screen until I reposted, and there is no edit function.
Yes, I understand what the will of Allah means. Is it his will also that an adjective is a noun?

talib as-safa
31-08-12, 03:32 PM
Is it his will also that an adjective is a noun?

Sorry, be more explicit in your analogies. There's no space for rhetoric and word games here - be clear in what you're saying, and reply to my previous post.

chimera
01-09-12, 12:05 AM
Signed cheque: the words of God given to Moses, a prophet of Allah.
Unsigned cheque: Koran without the expression "this is my name" by Allah.

talib as-safa
01-09-12, 06:09 PM
sigh!

we're clearly going in circles.

i've just said how what you are saying is resting on assumptions - assumptions which have not yet been proven.

we do not accept that, for a revelation to be sound, it must mention "yahveh" as a name of Allah. if it is indeed a name of Allah, it is certainly not the ONLY name of Allah. you will never be able to prove it is, since you're recourse is to judeo-christian texts which we do not accept in their present form.

there's no point repeating and repeating your contention, and ignoring the responses. if you think anyone will convert like this, i'm afraid you're very wrong, and you're entering into 'troll' territory.

***

note, for the muslims:

http://quran.com/17/110

chimera
02-09-12, 04:39 AM
I'm inquiring about the claims that the Jewish Name is in the Koran. So far, I've been called "stupid , missionary and troll".
Is there any Koran text which says in effect that "Allah says "My name is..""?

talib as-safa
02-09-12, 03:34 PM
I'm inquiring about the claims that the Jewish Name is in the Koran. So far, I've been called "stupid , missionary and troll".
Is there any Koran text which says in effect that "Allah says "My name is..""?

No need to shift your stance, now. You came here asserting that, since Yahweh is not in the Qur'an, the Qur'an could not possibly be from God since it did not contain His "signature". That's you assumption, and you haven't been able to prove it.

I've already posted the Islamic stance. The Qur'an says:

"Say: "Call upon Allah, or call upon Rahman: by whatever name ye call upon Him, (it is well): for to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names."

chimera
02-09-12, 10:16 PM
"That's you assumption, and you haven't been able to prove it."
No I can't prove it. But you have. Thank you and goodbye.

talib as-safa
02-09-12, 10:55 PM
"That's you assumption, and you haven't been able to prove it."
No I can't prove it. But you have. Thank you and goodbye.

That wasn't the assumption I was referring to. I was referring to Jehova being God's "signature". At most, that's from your own tampered books, not ours. So your arguments are of absolutely no value to Muslims. Bye bye, Mr. Missionary, and do your homework next time.