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SilverCrescent
28-11-11, 12:14 PM
:salams

I'm looking for different perspectives on the issue. If a wife takes some of her husband's money in his absence without his permission and doesn't tell him , would you consider it stealing ?

The husband gives the wife an allowance, but the wife wants the extra money to buy herself some things .

Brothers, would you mind if your wife did this or would you shrug it off as a minor issue ?

Sisters, do you think this is acceptable ?

:jkk:

uncle umar
28-11-11, 12:18 PM
i would be upset and it would actually make me re evaluate the situation im in.

my wife wants dunya so much, that she feels that she can secretly take money that maybe i put aside for things life rent, bills, ect ect instead of have open communication with me.

that says alot in of itself. i would forgive, not freak out over it, but its not something that would happen again inshallah. open communication is key. the issue for me here isint really about the money its about the sneaky underhanded business going on here.

*asiya*
28-11-11, 12:20 PM
:wswrwb: Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, came to the Prophet :saw: and said, "O Messenger of Allah, Abu Sufyan is a stingy man and does not give me and my children enough provisions except when I take something from him with out his knowledge. " The Prophet :saw: said, "Take what is reasonably sufficient for you and your children. " (Bukhari and Muslim)

uncle umar
28-11-11, 12:23 PM
:wswrwb: Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, came to Prophet Muhammad :saw: and said, "O Messenger of Allah, Abu Sufyan is a stingy man and does not give me and my children enough provisions except when I take something from him with out his knowledge. " Prophet Muhammad :saw: said, "Take what is reasonably sufficient for you and your children. " (Bukhari and Muslim)

indeed but that was because he was real stingy (it seems).

lets assume this is like a "normal" marriage. dont you think open communication is the key here? i dont see whats so difficult about asking for some extra moolaz for whatever.

SilverCrescent
28-11-11, 12:26 PM
:wswrwb: Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, came to the Prophet :saw: and said, "O Messenger of Allah, Abu Sufyan is a stingy man and does not give me and my children enough provisions except when I take something from him with out his knowledge. " The Prophet :saw: said, "Take what is reasonably sufficient for you and your children. " (Bukhari and Muslim)

:jkk: My question was the husband gives the wife an allowance, apparently , the wife doesn't consider it reasonably sufficient for herself and takes something extra. In this case, would it still be considered stealing?

Bugz
28-11-11, 12:27 PM
Depends how much, my wife gets several allowances so I guess I'd be pretty ****ed unless it was a very small amount.

*aisha*
28-11-11, 12:36 PM
No its not acceptable to me,just ask no need to take anything without letting your husband know. Its like 2 wrong things 1 your taking money thats his and 2 your not asking him if its ok to buy whatever you took the money for. Unless hes extremely stingy and you have no food thats the only exception I can think of.

.: Anna :.
28-11-11, 12:57 PM
I don't see it as stealing to just use your husbands money as you want or need.. although I suppose its different if she does have an "allowance" and the other money is set aside for something specific eg bills or his own expenses and if the allowance is enough then why take more, but if he is stingy or she has not been left enough money for the family food, childrens things etc then its not stealing as husband has a duty to provide for those things, like the hadith asiya has posted.
although i find this concept of stealing between husband and wife a little weird personally, i dont see the need to be so strict about what money is for him, what money is for her etc, marriage is a team and a partnership so what is wrong with wife having open access to the husbands/family money, surely he should trust her or else why has he married someone not trustworthy?? imo it is a bit controlling to restrict her so much, of course unless finance are severely limited then every person in the family needs to restrict themselves but if finance not too much of an issue, why not trust her to spend whats needed and obviously if there is a very large purchase she wants to make she would probably check it with the husband whether it can be afforded at that time or better to wait and buy in a couple of months or forget about it. but generally if the husband goes so far as to say "stealing" to the wife for using his income for her or childrens or the family or house needs, then i think that marks him out as being tight because that shows the attitude. like i just cant imagine my husband saying that (mashaallah..) if they say please dont spend too much this month we cant afford it etc, that is normal, but not accusing of stealing and being so strict with the wife like that :S

debonaire
28-11-11, 01:00 PM
:wswrwb:

I think it depends on the circumstances...

Theft: "A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it." S1 Theft Act 1968

However, it does not count as theft if you have the consent of the owner (in this case the husband); and your behaviour is not considered 'dishonest' if the person appropriates the property in the belief that "he would have the other's consent if the other knew of the appropriation and the circumstances of it" (s2(1)(b))

So it all boils down to this:
If the husband was/would be fine about it, no it's not stealing
If he wasn't/wouldn't be fine with it, then yeah, it's stealing

But this is English law... at the end of the day it all comes down to your own morals and principles, and the circumstances between husband and wife.

GuCcI
28-11-11, 01:01 PM
I don't get an allowance??? :eek:

Bugz
28-11-11, 01:03 PM
I don't get an allowance??? :eek:

Shame, go hang him. My wife wants an increase.

Ebony
28-11-11, 01:06 PM
If she knows her husband will throw a wobbly and get upset at her taking extra money from his wallet then she shouldnt do it w/o asking him.

if she knows it wont bother him, then there is no issue - its not considered stealing.

debonaire
28-11-11, 01:07 PM
If she knows her husband will throw a wobbly and get upset at her taking extra money from his wallet then she shouldnt do it w/o asking him.

if she knows it wont bother him, then there is no issue - its not considered stealing.

Sums my post up nicely lol

seven
28-11-11, 01:11 PM
if the wife already recieves an allowance that is sufficient, then it's stealing.

*~ Shrinking Violet ~*
28-11-11, 01:14 PM
I don't get an allowance either, my husb tells me to take however much I need but then moans at me afterwards for overspending...typical! :rolleyes:

Abu Suleiman
28-11-11, 01:18 PM
Wa'laikumus Salaam wa rahmatullahi wabarakatu

I wouldn't mind her taking "my" money, but I would prefer it if she told me (later on) that she'd taken it.

Bugz
28-11-11, 01:19 PM
Wa'laikumus Salaam wa rahmatullahi wabarakatu

I wouldn't mind her taking "my" money, but I would prefer it if she told me (later on) that she'd taken it.

Oi, you're gonna be a very, very poor man.

*~ Shrinking Violet ~*
28-11-11, 01:46 PM
Wa'laikumus Salaam wa rahmatullahi wabarakatu

I wouldn't mind her taking "my" money, but I would prefer it if she told me (later on) that she'd taken it.

Yeah that's what I do if iv take it from anywhere other than his pocket (where he keeps loose change). Savings r kept elsewhere if I spend from there, I always inform him afterwards.

sur
28-11-11, 02:19 PM
A husbands and wife relationship is build on trust. If you need cash, don’t just take it from your husband without talking to him first.
Would you like it if he took your money without asking you?
Money is one of the biggest causes of strife in a marriage. Taking money from a spouse without communicating with them can understandably be a serious source of conflict. It may be a quick an easy solution to a money shortfall, but the harm it can do to your relationship in the long run is not worth it. In the end it comes down to mutual respect.
To gain much love form your husband sister respect his wealth and indeed his love for you will be stronger Inshallah.

abu_fulan_fulan
28-11-11, 02:20 PM
:jkk: My question was the husband gives the wife an allowance, apparently , the wife doesn't consider it reasonably sufficient for herself and takes something extra. In this case, would it still be considered stealing?

I put not sure as all depends what for. if for essentials then no, if for non essentials then yes it is stealing.

*asiya*
28-11-11, 02:32 PM
A husbands and wife relationship is build on trust. If you need cash, dont just take it from your husband without talking to him first.
Would you like it if he took your money without asking you?
Money is one of the biggest causes of strife in a marriage. Taking money from a spouse without communicating with them can understandably be a serious source of conflict. It may be a quick an easy solution to a money shortfall, but the harm it can do to your relationship in the long run is not worth it. In the end it comes down to mutual respect.
To gain much love form your husband sister respect his wealth and indeed his love for you will be stronger Inshallah.


the husband has to spend on his wife, but the wife is not obliged to spend on her husband. so if a husband took her money, yes it would be stealing, if she takes his money, not so, shes entitled to take what she needs.


every muslim man or woman has only to fear Allah ta ala in regard to what and how they spend their money, that should be the priority in everyones mind.

Perseveranze
28-11-11, 02:33 PM
Asalaamu Alaikum,

I think it's based of necessity. If it's not sufficient for the wife for necessary things, then she probably has the right to take it. But if it's just for greed that the wife wants more money, then it's not right imo.

Muslimah*
28-11-11, 02:34 PM
No i wouldn't find it acceptable if he took my money without asking

and i wouldn't take his money without asking.

whats the big deal, if either the husband or the wife really needed the money why cant they just ask?

Say the wife always takes money from her husbands wallet or watever and he shrugs it off,

one day if his money did get stolen he might accuse his wife because she usually doesn't ask before taking.

and what if he/she needed that money for something important and the other partner went and spent it on shoes or icecream.

sur
28-11-11, 02:46 PM
the husband has to spend on his wife, but the wife is not obliged to spend on her husband. so if a husband took her money, yes it would be stealing, if she takes his money, not so, shes entitled to take what she needs.


every muslim man or woman has only to fear Allah ta ala in regard to what and how they spend their money, that should be the priority in everyones mind.

That is the beauty of Islam the wife gets to keep her earning which places the women in the highest status which the western world are lacking.
My point is that, If a couple is not honest and upfront about money, it makes any relationship very difficult to sustain

the_middle_road
28-11-11, 04:13 PM
:wswrwb: Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, came to the Prophet :saw: and said, "O Messenger of Allah, Abu Sufyan is a stingy man and does not give me and my children enough provisions except when I take something from him with out his knowledge. " The Prophet :saw: said, "Take what is reasonably sufficient for you and your children. " (Bukhari and Muslim)

:wswrwb:

This is the case where the man is not fulfilling the wife's needs, as he is obliged to. It can't be used in cases where the man is adequately providing for the wife.

Juvegirl
28-11-11, 04:18 PM
EDIT: Waleikum as salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu.

We both work and we pool our money. My husband is, perhaps, too lenient and too willing to let me have whatever I ask for. Not that I'm complaining :) but I have to put in the extra effort to ensure I stay within reasonable limits with my spending. I'm more worried about finances than he is, perhaps he has lived longer trusting Allah swt than I have. I ensure the bills are paid, metro passes bought, rent cheque is cut and money is available for various health matters and groceries. He does the shopping :)

I don't ask my husband if I can buy a coffee from our money or really anything that is less than $20 or so. If I go out for dinner with friends, he knows, so there is no surprise. If I want to buy something expensive, I ask, because he may have other plans for our money, and he's the Amir. I always like to know when he plans to spend a significant amount of money on a non-essential so there are no surprises.

Although we contribute equally to our joint account, I would absolutely see it as stealing if I took money and tried to hide it from my husband by not telling him before or after. He has a right to know where our money is going.

al-siddiq
28-11-11, 04:24 PM
:wswrwb: Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, came to the Prophet :saw: and said, "O Messenger of Allah, Abu Sufyan is a stingy man and does not give me and my children enough provisions except when I take something from him with out his knowledge. " The Prophet :saw: said, "Take what is reasonably sufficient for you and your children. " (Bukhari and Muslim)

Wa Aalaikum Assalam WaRahmatullahi WaBarakatuh,

This hadith is in reference to one who is no adequately providing the basic things needed.

One cannot for instance just take money to buy yourself 3 more pairs of shoes when you already own 20.

Muslimah3000
28-11-11, 04:50 PM
:salams

I'm looking for different perspectives on the issue. If a wife takes some of her husband's money in his absence without his permission and doesn't tell him , would you consider it stealing ?

The husband gives the wife an allowance, but the wife wants the extra money to buy herself some things .

Brothers, would you mind if your wife did this or would you shrug it off as a minor issue ?

Sisters, do you think this is acceptable ?

:jkk:

Alaykom salam,

It is acceptable if the husband doesn't spend money on his wife properly, or refuses to do so, and specially if she doesn't work, i heard a shaykh once talking about this issue, a long time ago, and he said it's not stealing.

Allah knows best.

ze leetle elper
28-11-11, 04:51 PM
I don't get an allowance??? :eek:

lol do you have a pink ceramic piggy on the shelf? :D go check it! :p I aghree with Anna, I find the concept of 'stealing'' a bit strange between spouse who you live with ie: you are not going to take the cash and do a runner, you still have to face one another at bedtime so why the deception?

If the wife had an 'allowance' or funds she has access to but there was not enough cash in it, why is it so difficult to just tell the husband so he can give more? If you don't tell him it isn't enough he won't know it isn't enough and will look upon you taking it without asking negatively. Communication is a huge issue here. I also think the husband should ask the wife periodically whether what she has is sufficient and whether she requires more for any large purchases etc. He should do this so she doesn't feel belittled to go and 'ask' him for money every and any single time she needs it. Anyway if there is trust and honesty between both then the easiest option would just be access to one anothers accounts and communicatyion about the regular spending.

JDR
28-11-11, 04:56 PM
Stealing? SubhanAllah, I Cant believe some see this as stealing. Why assume it's stealing ? When she is your wife?
Unless, he's married to a women who is sneaky,not to be trusted and the money goes somewhere else.

I Hope a adult knows,money doesn't grow on tree's and is responsible with money and her roll as a wife and a mother.

As a muslim, we know's Allah swt will ask us, how we spend our money in this world. So someone who knows this would not overspend money.However let her buy, whatever she loves and you can afford.

Whatever we do in life, we should do it for the sake of Allah swt. If you give your husband or wife, some of your money..see it as sadaqa. Never be greedy and your wife will be honest with you insha Allah wt

GuCcI
28-11-11, 05:01 PM
I don't get an allowance??? :eek:

lol do you have a pink ceramic piggy on the shelf? :D go check it! :p I

No I don't :(

.mirror.
28-11-11, 05:04 PM
:wswrwb:

Generally, I won't mind, I think. Maybe, if it's an enormous amount, then I feel she should ask.

But, I don't know for sure. Depends on the reason, I guess.

If it's for an emergency and I'm not there, then there's no problem. If it's because she wants to go shopping and spends a few thousand dollars, then it's a problem.

I will never consider it stealing, though. How can you say your wife stole your money? =/ Sounds so wrong, in my opinion. It'd just be a problem that we'd need to talk about. :insha:

Islamically, however, a wife must have her husband's permission to take his money, because it's forbidden to do so without his permission.

Khair, that's what I think now; I'm not married, so wallahu alam.

seven
28-11-11, 05:18 PM
Stealing? SubhanAllah, I Cant believe some see this as stealing. Why assume it's stealing ? When she is your wife?
Unless, he's married to a women who is sneaky,not to be trusted and the money goes somewhere else.

I Hope a adult knows,money doesn't grow on tree's and is responsible with money and her roll as a wife and a mother.

As a muslim, we know's Allah swt will ask us, how we spend our money in this world. So someone who knows this would not overspend money.However let her buy, whatever she loves and you can afford.

Whatever we do in life, we should do it for the sake of Allah swt. If you give your husband or wife, some of your money..see it as sadaqa. Never be greedy and your wife will be honest with you insha Allah wt



just because they are married, doesn't automatically give the wife a right over everything the man owns.

she has a right to a portion of his wealth for what's neccessary... beyond that, the rest the husbands wealth is an amanah.

if you deceptively use/take something that is entrusted to you... then that is stealing.

*asiya*
28-11-11, 05:20 PM
Allah ta ala has enjoined on men to be kind to their wives, just giving her only the necessities like food and clothing, and a roof over her head, as if she has the same rights as a camel or a donkey, is being stingy.

-Jibril-
28-11-11, 05:21 PM
The fact that she's taking it secretly speaks volumes.

They might need to have a look at their relationship and maybe think about updating it via Facebook.

*asiya*
28-11-11, 05:28 PM
The Censure of Stingy Behavior


Allah chastises the stingy behavior of those who refuse to spend their money for what Allah ordered them, such as being kind to parents and compassionate to relatives, orphans, the poor, the relative who is also a neighbor, the companion during travel, the needy wayfarer, the slaves and servants. Such people do not give Allah's right from their wealth, and they assist in the spread of stingy behavior. The Messenger of Allah said,

وَأَيُّ دَاءٍ أَدْوَأُ مِنَ الْبُخْل

(What disease is more serious than being stingy) He also said,

إِيَّاكُمْ وَالشُّحَّ، فَإِنَّهُ أَهْلَكَ مَنْ كَانَ قَبْلَكُمْ، أَمَرَهُمْ بِالْقَطِيْعَةِ فَقَطَعُوا، وَأَمَرَهُمْ بِالْفُجُورِ فَفَجَرُوا

(Beware of being stingy, for it destroyed those who were before you, as it encouraged them to cut their relations and they did, and it encouraged them to commit sin and they did.) Allah said,

﴿وَيَكْتُمُونَ مَآ ءَاتَـهُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ﴾

(and hide what Allah has bestowed upon them of His bounties,) Therefore, the miser is ungrateful for Allah's favor, for its effect does not appear on him, whether in his food, clothes or what he gives. Similarly, Allah said,

﴿إِنَّ الإِنسَـنَ لِرَبِّهِ لَكَنُودٌ - وَإِنَّهُ عَلَى ذَلِكَ لَشَهِيدٌ ﴾

(Verily, man is ungrateful to his Lord. And to that he bears witness.) by his manners and conduct,

﴿وَإِنَّهُ لِحُبِّ الْخَيْرِ لَشَدِيدٌ ﴾

(And verily, he is violent in the love of wealth.) Allah said,

﴿وَيَكْتُمُونَ مَآ ءَاتَـهُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ﴾

(and hide what Allah has bestowed upon them of His bounties) and this is why He threatened them,

﴿وَأَعْتَدْنَا لِلْكَـفِرِينَ عَذَاباً مُّهِيناً﴾

(And We have prepared for the disbelievers a disgraceful torment.) Kufr means to cover something. Therefore, the Bakhil (miser) covers the favors that Allah has blessed him with, meaning he does not spread those favors. So he is described by the term Kafir (ungrateful) regarding the favors that Allah granted him. A Hadith states that,

إِنَّ اللهَ إِذَا أَنْعَمَ نِعْمَةً عَلى عَبْدٍ،أَحَبَّ أَنْ يَظْهَرَ أَثَرُهَا عَلَيْه

(When Allah grants a servant a favor, He likes that its effect appears on him.) Some of the Salaf stated that this Ayah ﴿4:37﴾ is describing the Jews who hid the knowledge they had about the description of Muhammad, and there is no doubt that the general meaning of the Ayah includes this. The apparent wording for this Ayah indicates that it is talking about being stingy with money, even though miserly conduct with knowledge is also included. The Ayah talks about spending on relatives and the weak, just as the Ayah after it,

﴿وَالَّذِينَ يُنْفِقُونَ أَمْوَلَهُمْ رِئَـآءَ النَّاسِ﴾

(And (also) those who spend of their wealth to be seen of men, ) Allah first mentions the punished misers who do not spend, then He mentions those who spend to show off to gain the reputation that they are generous, not for the Face of Allah. A Hadith states that the first three persons on whom the fire will feed are a scholar, a fighter and a spender who shows off with their actions. For instance,

يَقُولُ صَاحِبُ الْمَالِ: مَا تَرَكْتُ مِنْ شَيْءٍ تُحِبُّ أَنْ يُنْفَقَ فِيهِ، إِلَّا أَنْفَقْتُ فِي سَبِيلِكَ، فَيَقُولُ اللهُ: كَذَبْتَ، إِنَّمَا أَرَدْتَ أَنْ يُقَالَ: جَوَادٌ، فَقَدْدِقيل

(The wealthy will say, "I did not leave any area that You like to be spent on, but I spent on it in Your cause.'' Allah will say, "You lie, you only did that so that it is said, `He is generous.' And it was said...'') meaning you acquired your reward in the life, and this is indeed what you sought with your action. This is why Allah said,

﴿وَلاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَلاَ بِالْيَوْمِ الاٌّخِرِ﴾

(and believe not in Allah and the Last Day,) meaning, it is Shaytan who lured them to commit this evil action, instead of performing the good deed as it should be performed. Shaytan encouraged, excited and lured them by making the evil appear good,

﴿وَمَن يَكُنِ الشَّيْطَـنُ لَهُ قَرِيناً فَسَآءَ قِرِيناً﴾

(And whoever takes Shaytan as an intimate; then what a dreadful intimate he has!) Allah then said,

﴿وَمَاذَا عَلَيْهِمْ لَوْ ءَامَنُواْ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الاٌّخِرِ وَأَنفَقُواْ مِمَّا رَزَقَهُمُ اللَّهُ﴾

(And what loss have they if they had believed in Allah and in the Last Day, and they spend out of what Allah has given them for sustenance) This Ayah means, what harm would it cause them if they believe in Allah, go on the righteous path, replace showing off with sincerity, have faith in Allah, and await His promise in the Hereafter, for those who do good and spend what He has given them on what He likes and is pleased with. Allah's statement:

﴿وَكَانَ اللَّهُ بِهِم عَلِيماً﴾

(And Allah is Ever All-Knower of them.) means, He has perfect knowledge of their intentions, whether good or evil. Indeed, Allah knows those who deserve success, and He grants them success and guidance, directing them to perform righteous actions that will earn them His pleasure. He also knows those who deserve failure and expulsion from His great mercy, which amounts to utter failure in this life and the Hereafter for them, we seek refuge in Allah from this evil end.

﴿إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يَظْلِمُ مِثْقَالَ ذَرَّةٍ وَإِن تَكُ حَسَنَةً يُضَـعِفْهَا وَيُؤْتِ مِن لَّدُنْهُ أَجْراً عَظِيماً - فَكَيْفَ إِذَا جِئْنَا مِن كُلِّ أمَّةٍ بِشَهِيدٍ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ عَلَى هَـؤُلاءِ شَهِيداً - يَوْمَئِذٍ يَوَدُّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ وَعَصَوُاْ الرَّسُولَ لَوْ تُسَوَّى بِهِمُ الاٌّرْضُ وَلاَ يَكْتُمُونَ اللَّهَ حَدِيثاً ﴾

(40. Surely! Allah wrongs not even of the weight of a speck of dust, but if there is any good (done), He doubles it, and gives from Him a great reward.) (41. How (will it be) then, when We bring from each nation a witness and We bring you (O Muhammad) as a witness against these people) (42. On that day those who disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger will wish that they were buried in the earth, but they will never be able to hide a single fact from Allah.)

Tafsir Ibn Kathir. (http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=665&Itemid=59)

seven
28-11-11, 05:31 PM
Allah ta ala has enjoined on men to be kind to their wives, just giving her only the necessities like food and clothing, and a roof over her head, as if she has the same rights as a camel or a donkey, is being stingy.
not disputing that at all.

but just because a husband is being stingy but fulfils her rights, doesn't excuse the wife from stealing.

obviously, it's not healthy for a relationship and he should treat her better.

*asiya*
28-11-11, 05:34 PM
not disputing that at all.

but just because a husband is being stingy but fulfils her rights, doesn't excuse the wife from stealing.

obviously, it's not healthy for a relationship and he should treat her better.

its not stealing if hes being stingy, shes allowed to take what she needs :)

Juvegirl
28-11-11, 05:44 PM
Allah ta ala has enjoined on men to be kind to their wives, just giving her only the necessities like food and clothing, and a roof over her head, as if she has the same rights as a camel or a donkey, is being stingy.


its not stealing if hes being stingy, shes allowed to take what she needs :)...

By definition, a necessity is something she needs. Not simply something she wants. The hadith quoted before, re: Hind, Abu Sufyan's wife, says, "Abu Sufyan is a stingy man and does not give me and my children enough provisions except when I take something from him with out his knowledge. " The Prophet saws said, "Take what is reasonably sufficient for you and your children. " (Bukhari and Muslim)

So they would be going without the bare necessities if she didn't take from him. And the Prophet saws said only to take what was reasonably sufficient. Not extra.

I wouldn't like it if my husband was stingy with me, but that wouldn't give me the right to take more than he allowed unless I was going ragged, without food, medical attention, etc. Not if I was going without visits to the hairdresser or a cell phone.

*asiya*
28-11-11, 05:56 PM
By definition, a necessity is something she needs. Not simply something she wants. The hadith quoted before, re: Hind, Abu Sufyan's wife, says, "Abu Sufyan is a stingy man and does not give me and my children enough provisions except when I take something from him with out his knowledge. " The Prophet saws said, "Take what is reasonably sufficient for you and your children. " (Bukhari and Muslim)

So they would be going without the bare necessities if she didn't take from him. And the Prophet saws said only to take what was reasonably sufficient. Not extra.

I wouldn't like it if my husband was stingy with me, but that wouldn't give me the right to take more than he allowed unless I was going ragged, without food, medical attention, etc. Not if I was going without visits to the hairdresser or a cell phone.

i was once married to a man, who said that as he had given me a pot of jam, a loaf of bread, and there was water in the tap, and a roof over my head i had my necessities for the week, in fact he claimed the pot of jam was a luxury and the bread and water was more than sufficent, and he was earning 600 a week thats about 800 dollars..he also claimed my children could not eat from what he bought, as they were not his kids.he claimed this was islam. a lot of ppl might try to argue that it was sufficent, but that would be to neglect all other aspects of the deen and the commands of Allah ta ala and the advices, of rasoolAllah :saw: .

the prophet :saw: forbade women from marrying harsh and miserly men, and i know why that is. all unmarried sisters take heed of this, and make sure u marry a generous man of good character.


The Messenger of Allah said,

وَأَيُّ دَاءٍ أَدْوَأُ مِنَ الْبُخْل

(What disease is more serious than being stingy) He also said,

إِيَّاكُمْ وَالشُّحَّ، فَإِنَّهُ أَهْلَكَ مَنْ كَانَ قَبْلَكُمْ، أَمَرَهُمْ بِالْقَطِيْعَةِ فَقَطَعُوا، وَأَمَرَهُمْ بِالْفُجُورِ فَفَجَرُوا

(Beware of being stingy, for it destroyed those who were before you, as it encouraged them to cut their relations and they did, and it encouraged them to commit sin and they did.) Allah said,

﴿وَيَكْتُمُونَ مَآ ءَاتَـهُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ﴾

(and hide what Allah has bestowed upon them of His bounties,) Therefore, the miser is ungrateful for Allah's favor, for its effect does not appear on him, whether in his food, clothes or what he gives. Similarly, Allah said,

﴿إِنَّ الإِنسَـنَ لِرَبِّهِ لَكَنُودٌ - وَإِنَّهُ عَلَى ذَلِكَ لَشَهِيدٌ ﴾

(Verily, man is ungrateful to his Lord. And to that he bears witness.) by his manners and conduct,

﴿وَإِنَّهُ لِحُبِّ الْخَيْرِ لَشَدِيدٌ ﴾

(And verily, he is violent in the love of wealth.) Allah said,

﴿وَيَكْتُمُونَ مَآ ءَاتَـهُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ﴾

(and hide what Allah has bestowed upon them of His bounties) and this is why He threatened them,

﴿وَأَعْتَدْنَا لِلْكَـفِرِينَ عَذَاباً مُّهِيناً﴾

(And We have prepared for the disbelievers a disgraceful torment.) Kufr means to cover something. Therefore, the Bakhil (miser) covers the favors that Allah has blessed him with, meaning he does not spread those favors. So he is described by the term Kafir (ungrateful) regarding the favors that Allah granted him. A Hadith states that,

إِنَّ اللهَ إِذَا أَنْعَمَ نِعْمَةً عَلى عَبْدٍ،أَحَبَّ أَنْ يَظْهَرَ أَثَرُهَا عَلَيْه

(When Allah grants a servant a favor, He likes that its effect appears on him.) Some of the Salaf stated that this Ayah ﴿4:37﴾ is describing the Jews who hid the knowledge they had about the description of Muhammad, and there is no doubt that the general meaning of the Ayah includes this. The apparent wording for this Ayah indicates that it is talking about being stingy with money, even though miserly conduct with knowledge is also included. The Ayah talks about spending on relatives and the weak

noobz
28-11-11, 06:00 PM
The fact that she's taking it secretly speaks volumes.

They might need to have a look at their relationship and maybe think about updating it via Facebook.

now where'd that like button go

noobz
28-11-11, 06:01 PM
i find it hard to believe that women would justify this in a normal marriage , not the stingy type one.

Its like the kids saying 'my dads money is my money' ... oh purleeaze

GuCcI
28-11-11, 06:06 PM
I think if you need more than a few dollars it's better just to ask for it. Or at least inform that you've taken it. In the end of the day it's polite and common courtesy seeing as money is earned (he/she is working for it!!) and doesn't grow on trees. But I don't think it's classified as stealing either.

Juvegirl
28-11-11, 06:09 PM
i was once married to a man, who said that as he had given me a pot of jam, a loaf of bread, and there was water in the tap, and a roof over my head i had my necessities for the week, in fact he claimed the pot of jam was a luxury and the bread and water was more than sufficent, and he was earning 600 a week thats about 800 dollars..he also claimed my children could not eat from what he bought, as they were not his kids.he claimed this was islam.

the prophet :saw: forbade women from marrying harsh and miserly men, and i know why that is. all unmarried sisters take heed of this, and make sure u marry a generous man of good character.

Uh, sis - that's a realllllly extreme situation. He was not providing you with balanced wholesome food that you can sustain a healthy body with.

I'm sorry you went through this, but this experience is not a general circumstance and shouldn't be used as such.

Regarding generosity, I also agree this is important. A man who is stingy with money will usually be stingy with love and kindness also.

*asiya*
28-11-11, 06:18 PM
Al-Baqarah 2:228

...And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses, etc.) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect, etc.) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allh is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

Sahih Al-Bukhari 3.501, Narrated Abu Huraira

...The Prophet May Allah's peace and blessings be upon him said, "The best amongst you is the one who pays the rights of others generously."

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #276, Narrated Amr ibn al-Ahwas al-Jushami

Amr heard the Prophet May Allah's peace and blessings be upon him say in his farewell address on the eve of his Last Pilgrimage, after he had glorified and praised Allah, he cautioned his followers: 'Listen! Treat women kindly; they are like prisoners in your hands. Beyond this you do not owe anything from them. Should they be guilty of flagrant misbehaviour, you may remove them from your beds, and beat them but do not inflict upon them any severe punishment. Then if they obey you, do not have recourse to anything else against them. Listen! You have your rights upon your wives and they have their rights upon you. Your right is that they shall not allow anyone you dislike, to trample your bed and do not permit those whom you dislike to enter your home. Their right is that you should treat them well in the matter of food and clothing.' [Transmitted by Tirmidhi]

Bint-Al-Islam
28-11-11, 06:39 PM
not sure, because it depends. are the kids starving to death? does she need to pay off bills he didnt pay off? are the bailiffs standing outside? are the light going out because he forgot to top up 5? if so, then yh she can take the money as long as she uses it just for that. i wouldnt consider it as a stealing it.
but for anything else, i would advise ask before you take. i personally wouldnt like if someone takes my money without permission.

weird
28-11-11, 07:14 PM
tells you more about him then her if she has to take money

.mirror.
28-11-11, 07:25 PM
tells you more about him then her if she has to take money

Not always. She could be the type who goes on a shopping spree on a monthly basis.

uncle umar
28-11-11, 07:26 PM
Not always. She could be the type who goes on a shopping spree on a monthly basis.

ya or weekly. you know a dunyaholic.

.mirror.
28-11-11, 07:31 PM
Yeah, feel sorry for those brothers.

But, it goes both ways. Sometimes it's the men who blow it away on useless things, as well.

More Akhiraholic! :up: less Dunyaholic!

weird
28-11-11, 07:36 PM
Not always. She could be the type who goes on a shopping spree on a monthly basis.

no no no I said has to, not wants to. if she has to take money, he is not fulfilling his responsibilities

anonymous_mehip
28-11-11, 07:38 PM
Well if she obeys her husband as it his right over her, then she should be free to use his money as it is her right over him.
Why do people wanna say women who spends money are gold diggers or w.e? but they never say anything about obeing the husband? I don't think it's easy to "obey" your husband ..maybe it's not easy for men to give their wives some money but it goes both ways
To each their rights .. just respect it

*asiya*
28-11-11, 07:52 PM
its a culture thing.

.mirror.
28-11-11, 07:57 PM
Well if she obeys her husband as it his right over her, then she should be free to use his money as it is her right over him.
Why do people wanna say women who spends money are gold diggers or w.e? but they never say anything about obeing the husband? I don't think it's easy to "obey" your husband ..maybe it's not easy for men to give their wives some money but it goes both ways
To each their rights .. just respect it

She doesn't have a right over his money.

If she earns, then she has right over her money.

It should be easy to obey your husband as long as he is pious and knows what his limits are. He has to answer to Allah one day.

*asiya*
28-11-11, 07:59 PM
She doesn't have a right over his money.

If she earns, then she has right over her money.

.

Al-Baqarah 2:228

...And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses, etc.)

*asiya*
28-11-11, 08:00 PM
definately a culture thing..

.mirror.
28-11-11, 08:01 PM
I meant that she doesn't own his money. Like, for example, she can not consider it her money. She has right of maintenance and shelter, though.

.mirror.
28-11-11, 08:04 PM
...It is forbidden for a woman to spend her husbands money without his permission;

IslamQA -- http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/books/7

sur
28-11-11, 09:02 PM
Al-Baqarah 2:228

...And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses, etc.)

It is the wife’s right to take from her husband’s money what is sufficient for her needs and the needs of her children according to customary usage,

The financial part of a marriage should be treated like a business and your spouse is your trusted business partner. You need to work together to have a successful home. Money problems is leading cause of divorce, so take the issue seriously in a marriage

naila-k
28-11-11, 09:10 PM
Isn't it like the leaving the house thing? I know that I have general permissions to.spend hubbys money and he is happy for me to do so. Sometimes I feel I have been excessive as I have bought new clothes from primark that I didn't actually need, and he will tell me I'm being silly and as a woman it is my nature to want nice things and dress up etc. Other times I will look at our finances and although my husband would like it if I bought new eid outfit etc, I haven't.

She_Bittersweet
28-11-11, 09:16 PM
Why just dont tell him? My husband gives me money and never questions where i spend it and if i need more im given more. I would never go and sneak and get something behind his back, why? Easier to ask and there are no misunderstandings, if people start sneaking in marriage its not gonna end well.

Jenicca
28-11-11, 09:24 PM
Hmm isn't it just generally good adab to ask ?

Unless its an emergency.

He wouldn't say no hopefully.....or are some husbands mean?

If I'm buying the 20th handbag then yes I'd expect to be shouted at......:outta:

sur
28-11-11, 09:27 PM
Money in a marriage should be shared.

It should all be shared.

With both parties Consent

hayatto
28-11-11, 10:41 PM
wrong vote, I am not sure... it depends on the situation, if the husband expects you to seek permission or not. if he allows you freely to take when you need then it's not stealing.

Abu Suleiman
29-11-11, 12:33 AM
Oi, you're gonna be a very, very poor man.

At least my wife won't be asking for a gun.

-MA-
29-11-11, 01:14 AM
It's stealing in my opinion. If she wants something that bad, ask for it.

I can recall hearing a story about one of the wives of the Prophet :saw: wanting some material things that at the time he :saw: did not have. The Prophet :saw: became upset. Does anybody know the full narration?

mizfissy815
29-11-11, 04:10 AM
Whilst it may not be stealing as such if you inform them later, I personally think it's rude to do so.

I think it's inappropriate to go through someone's bag/wallet without their permission...heck I think it's iffy with their permission.

When I used to get an allowance from my dad, which my mom kept for me back when I didn't carry a bag/purse or anything when we went out...I would never dream of taking what was essentially 'my' money without asking her first. She'd never say no, but it's still her bag.

If either of my parents asked me to take out X amount from their wallet and give it to them/or take it....I'd be more inclined to bring them the wallet/purse and have them give it to me personally.

I'm very iffy about touching other people's belongings or going through their personal stuff...even when it's hardly personal. So I personally wouldn't do it.

truepath
29-11-11, 04:29 AM
I'm very iffy about touching other people's belongings or going through their personal stuff...even when it's hardly personal. So I personally wouldn't do it.

reading through the thread, it appears like some do not consider it as 'other people's belongings'

.mirror.
29-11-11, 04:43 AM
Your Money is my money, my money is my money.

That would only truly work if they have a lot of trust and they both know that the other person won't blow it away.

hanzla
29-11-11, 05:00 AM
According to the Shariah, a wife is entrusted with the wealth of her husband. That is, she is only allowed to use the money with his permission.

If your husband has allowed you to use the money as you wish, then you may use it for your needs, etc. However, if he has not allowed you, you should ask him before using the monies. If he does not fulfil your basic needs, then you may take only that amount that is sufficient for your basic needs. It is not permissible to take more and save on that.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

kostageas
29-11-11, 05:02 AM
I don't know lol. I mean, if everything (like rent, food, etc) was taken care of and she took it our of our surplus, I might ask her if I noticed, but I probably wouldn't care. But I'd be mad if she took it and we needed it for something in particular.

Umm_Hanzalah
29-11-11, 05:11 AM
It really depends on the circumstances.

If the husband and wife agree on an allowance that the wife gets and she can ask for more (and she generally has enough anyway) then she shouldn't feel the need to take his money without permission especially not for the 20th handbag. At the very least it is rude and inconsiderate as the husband may have kept that money for something more useful like rent or bills. It also depends on what was agreed about how money should be divided. I remember there was a thread on here a while back where a newly married sister took (I think) about 800 from her husband without permission to give to her family. Her husband was, understandably very upset about it, to the point of even considering divorce I think (which I think is extreme but can happen).

Vitriolic_Sage
29-11-11, 06:49 AM
some husbands don't give their wives anything and instead demand from them even for petty things like toilet paper. and no, i'm not making this crap up. in these cases, its not stealing, cuz the husbands should be thankful their wives' or wives' fathers/brothers/sons haven't yoked em yet.

JDR
29-11-11, 11:32 AM
just because they are married, doesn't automatically give the wife a right over everything the man owns.

she has a right to a portion of his wealth for what's neccessary... beyond that, the rest the husbands wealth is an amanah.

if you deceptively use/take something that is entrusted to you... then that is stealing.

I'completely agree..His wealth is a amaanah of Allah swt and her husband. However I don't agree, with using words like "stealing".

Altough, I agree its his money..however in my experiences, a loving husband doesn't say or treats his wife like this. I think a husband and wife, knows from each other what they like and prefer. So a wife knows how he feels, about her taking money without his consent.

Same go's with the house, its his house, would a loving husband, tells his wife its My house. That's not friendly and loving at all.

A wife is also a amaanah, not his child.

Alhamdulilllah, for the blessings Allah swt, has bestowed upon us. One of the greatest blessings is a spouse who treats you right and is your coolness of your eyes.

IbnulQayyim
29-11-11, 01:14 PM
These questions depend from couples to couples.

Please speak to your respective spouse.

You'll get 20 different answers here. You cannot choose one and go ahead. Please talk to your spouse about their feelings.

the_middle_road
29-11-11, 04:00 PM
I remember there was a thread on here a while back where a newly married sister took (I think) about 800 from her husband without permission to give to her family. Her husband was, understandably very upset about it, to the point of even considering divorce I think (which I think is extreme but can happen).

I remember that. I think that in the end they did get divorced. :/

noobz
15-06-12, 12:26 PM
last post 29-11-11 ....

but why is this bumped? ....

Nashmia
15-06-12, 12:35 PM
i consider it to be stealing. i'm not surprised at the figures of 25%, some women out there. if he proviing an allowance, then doesn't matter who it is, taking anything of anyone, form them without them knowing is called stealing. you don't do it to other family members before marriage, then why after marriage. this i've seen with a certain group of women, but i won't go into what type of women. they think earning and living here these husbands are rich, and do not value anything. it's disrespectful and not working as part of a team.

naila-k
15-06-12, 03:13 PM
poll
last post 29-11-11 ....

but why is this bumped? ....

naila-k
15-06-12, 03:26 PM
i really dont get this concept of an allowance? As expenses are different every month.
Sometimes you need to buy presents for family, which is a sunnah, or new shoes for kids, or new glasses etc, so it is very likely you wont need the same amount each month.
and how can you say taking something without them knowing is stealing. Sometimes if my husband needs milk an I am asleep he will take money from my purse and go to corner shop, or if he needs change for travel he will take from my purse, i dont consider it stealing and neither does he.

And the other way round too. If he is sleeping and I need to go shop and have no cash on me I will take money from him and he would expect me to do that rather then going without. Because he is sleeping and doesnt know, it doesnt make it stealing.

The reason he goes out and works is so that he can provide for us. Why would he then limit the money we can have to spend, when that is the purpose of the money in the first place? that is what it is there for? that is why he earns it?

We both spend the money and have equal access to it.

As for the necessities bit, a man is commanded to feed and clothe his wife in the same manner as he does himself. So if she is eating dahl and rice every day, and him meat every day then that is not equal, and he is not fufilling his responsibilities, by just providing her with the basics?
i consider it to be stealing. i'm not surprised at the figures of 25%, some women out there. if he proviing an allowance, then doesn't matter who it is, taking anything of anyone, form them without them knowing is called stealing. you don't do it to other family members before marriage, then why after marriage. this i've seen with a certain group of women, but i won't go into what type of women. they think earning and living here these husbands are rich, and do not value anything. it's disrespectful and not working as part of a team.

Kya
15-06-12, 04:10 PM
I dont understand the concept of allowance. Why is a wife given x amount of money? Isn't ALL his money hers too

I think it is sad and reflects badly on a husband if his wife needs to resort to taking money wihtout his knowledge. It just means he is being a bad husband or yes the wife could be shopoholic. I understand budgeting but there needs to be flixibility

.mirror.
15-06-12, 08:38 PM
i really dont get this concept of an allowance? As expenses are different every month.


I don't think it means taking money for little things like necessities. Probably like, buying a 200 dollar bag without him even knowing and you took his money - I think that'd be a bit more of a concern. However, the husband should give the wife money for these things (esp. necessities) as it is, without her having to ask/take them. But, diff. people can come to diff. arrangements, I guess.


I dont understand the concept of allowance. Why is a wife given x amount of money? Isn't ALL his money hers too


His money is his money and her money is her money.

hijabisister
15-06-12, 08:44 PM
In Islam the right of the wife-she can take money from the husband without the husband knowing.

If she does not have enough or if he does not give her enough to spend on basic necessity.

She wil not be accountable for taking money from him without his permission.

Read up on rights of a wife

blanchoir
15-06-12, 08:44 PM
Doesn't matter what we feel, we follow Qu'ran and Sunnah, theres no room for debates

Habibi27
15-06-12, 10:37 PM
If his allowance to you want not enough for you and the kids where you were actually lacking in care then no I would not consider it stealing but if his allowance was enough that is satisfied you only you wanted more then it would be deceptive. I stray away from the idea to say stealing because as his wife you share the life and the money. As he is head of the household, he knows how much he can allocate on which items. One should never be deceptive because it causes all sorts of trust issues. But also humans do error even in with best of intentions.

noobz
15-06-12, 11:49 PM
so all of a sudden if its the husbands money then its her money too and she doesnt need permission? ..

well then why is it that when if its the wifes money then all the women gonna be like 'its her money , he cant touch it!"

sushi
16-06-12, 06:52 AM
:salams

I'm looking for different perspectives on the issue. If a wife takes some of her husband's money in his absence without his permission and doesn't tell him , would you consider it stealing ?

The husband gives the wife an allowance, but the wife wants the extra money to buy herself some things .

Brothers, would you mind if your wife did this or would you shrug it off as a minor issue ?

Sisters, do you think this is acceptable ?

:jkk:

:asalam:

My husband is very tight regarding my allowance, he thinks its not his duty or something. So, I would consider me taking his money w/o his knowledge as stealing as he won't like it ! I would rather earn my money than taking anyone else's money w/o telling the person.

However, if my husband was nice,soft and kind to me and wouldn't like me to take the money because its there to meet the bills etc I would still not take it. If he was earning a lot (just as my husband) and would be fine with it , I wouldn't mind or hesitate as he is ok with it and situation also permits that.


:wswrwb:

I think it depends on the circumstances...

So it all boils down to this:
If the husband was/would be fine about it, no it's not stealing
If he wasn't/wouldn't be fine with it, then yeah, it's stealing
.

Agreed


:jkk: My question was the husband gives the wife an allowance, apparently , the wife doesn't consider it reasonably sufficient for herself and takes something extra. In this case, would it still be considered stealing?

If the husband gives her enough allowance why would she take it w/o his knowledge?! She shouldn't.

QMU
16-06-12, 10:32 AM
:wswrwb: Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, came to the Prophet :saw: and said, "O Messenger of Allah, Abu Sufyan is a stingy man and does not give me and my children enough provisions except when I take something from him with out his knowledge. " The Prophet :saw: said, "Take what is reasonably sufficient for you and your children. " (Bukhari and Muslim)



Wailkaikumsalam warahmatullah,

You cant really give that hadith as proof. Actually its very dangerous to do so, seems scenario's are very different.

to save problems after, just be open with each other?...ask him or have a place at home where you have some money, so when its needed by someone, they can take it?.. like an open pot etc?

Simple stuff, really dont need to make it complicated for no reason, in my opinion.

Hudson
16-06-12, 03:27 PM
the husband has to spend on his wife, but the wife is not obliged to spend on her husband. so if a husband took her money, yes it would be stealing, if she takes his money, not so, shes entitled to take what she needs.


every muslim man or woman has only to fear Allah ta ala in regard to what and how they spend their money, that should be the priority in everyones mind.

I am sure that you are not a scholar or a Islamic jurist. Just another layman, posting his or her opinions with no islamic understanding, whatsoever . It would be better if you post with islamic evidences . And when i say islamic evidences, i would prefer other sources besides islamqa . You should also quote the madhab of that source.

Hudson
16-06-12, 03:32 PM
:wswrwb: Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, came to the Prophet :saw: and said, "O Messenger of Allah, Abu Sufyan is a stingy man and does not give me and my children enough provisions except when I take something from him with out his knowledge. " The Prophet :saw: said, "Take what is reasonably sufficient for you and your children. " (Bukhari and Muslim)


Another display of ignorance and stupidity by asiya. I don't know why,she has the habit of posting hadiths,ayats and fatwahs without umderstanding the context or the current situation .

Sam_87
16-06-12, 04:11 PM
What a disgusting way to speak to your sister in islam!

I'm amazed at how people are able to post things like that and sleep peacefully at night

Thauban
16-06-12, 04:13 PM
Well it's not stealing. Once married everything belongs to each other, there is no 'mine and hers' or 'mine and his'. But telling him is better than not telling him cos men tend to be childish about these sort of things.

Thauban
16-06-12, 04:14 PM
What a disgusting way to speak to your sister in islam!

I'm amazed at how people are able to post things like that and sleep peacefully at night

Yeah and Hudson is a senior member? Shame on you.

QMU
16-06-12, 04:16 PM
Another display of ignorance and stupidity by asiya. I don't know why,she has the habit of posting hadiths,ayats and fatwahs without umderstanding the context or the current situation .


Language bro... not a nice way to speak to anyone, esp a sister in islam.

sushi
16-06-12, 06:31 PM
Language bro... not a nice way to speak to anyone, esp a sister in islam.

:jkk:

.mirror.
16-06-12, 06:37 PM
Wailkaikumsalam warahmatullah,

You cant really give that hadith as proof. Actually its very dangerous to do so, seems scenario's are very different.


I am sure that you are not a scholar or a Islamic jurist. Just another layman, posting his or her opinions with no islamic understanding, whatsoever . It would be better if you post with islamic evidences . And when i say islamic evidences, i would prefer other sources besides islamqa . You should also quote the madhab of that source.

I think that hadith was relevant. Mentioned here, as well:


Islam even gives women the right to take secretly money from their husbands if the husbands are not providing for them. Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, came to Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi was sallam) and said, "O Messenger of Allah, Abu Sufyan is a stingy man and does not give me and my children enough provisions except when I take something from him with out his knowledge. " Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi was sallam) said, "Take what is reasonably sufficient for you and your children. " (Bukhari and Muslim)

SunniPath (http://www.sunnipath.com/library/Articles/AR00000213.aspx)

And here:


If the husband is sufficiently providing for his wife and minor children, then the wife does not have a right to use her husband’s money without his consent. If the husband is miserly and he does not sufficiently provide for his wife and minor children, then she has a right to use her husband’s money without his consent to fulfill her principle needs. She cannot take an amount more than her principle needs in order to fulfill her luxuries.

AskImam (http://www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/15385)

Plus, I don't think Asiya was giving her opinion. I've read that on IslamQA. (And, no, they don't follow a maddhab. Not every Muslim follows a maddhab.)

Also, i don't want to repeat what others have pointed out regarding the way you spoke to her, but be careful.

Soliloquy
16-06-12, 06:44 PM
For me... "I'm not sure" = It depends. I won't go over scenarios again, everyone's covered them already.

Masih
16-06-12, 08:33 PM
Taking money to buy material things? Worst than stealing.

anonymous12345
17-06-12, 05:43 AM
i would be upset, but not angry.

Hudson
17-06-12, 05:40 PM
I guess I had used offensive words while making my point. I take those words back but still I will advise her , not to use islamic sources without understanding the context or situation.

AbuMubarak
17-06-12, 08:12 PM
I guess I had used offensive words while making my point. I take those words back but still I will advise her , not to use islamic sources without understanding the context or situation.
i see that Allah did not want to see my response to your disrespect of a sister before someone else saw it

QMU
17-06-12, 08:39 PM
Wailkaikumsalam warahmatullah,

You cant really give that hadith as proof. Actually its very dangerous to do so, seems scenario's are very different.

to save problems after, just be open with each other?...ask him or have a place at home where you have some money, so when its needed by someone, they can take it?.. like an open pot etc?

Simple stuff, really dont need to make it complicated for no reason, in my opinion.


Why you neg rep this sister Asiya?

Hudson
18-06-12, 06:00 AM
i see that Allah did not want to see my response to your disrespect of a sister before someone else saw it

Is that a threat ? ... If that is so then I would have replied you in the same fashion .

AbuMubarak
18-06-12, 09:11 AM
Is that a threat ? ... If that is so then I would have replied you in the same fashion .
i dont do the tit-for-tat for people who disrespect sisters

you obviously seem to be too willing to do it again

AmeeraQ
30-01-13, 09:29 PM
As far as I'm concerned the husband is to provide for everything, so her allowance shouldn't be for children's food, clothing for the children and so on. It should be for her to go out to dinner with her friends, and for anything extra that has nothing to do with family items. That's an allowance....

seagulls1999
31-01-13, 07:13 AM
I can't believe people are saying it's ok to steal.

ssh
31-01-13, 09:13 AM
major tea leaf!!! lulz

It doesn't matter if it's your hub or your mate, it's thieving because it's not yours.

If you have no other source of income and your kids are hungry and he is stingey, then take it once, get ther heck out of that family and give the money back when you are free.

If he is a good man and you have some basic needs then don't take it, just ask him!

Mostly I think ppl should have their own income each and pay for their own things. But I realise some girls can't do that so there would be some exceptions for needs not wants.

Ashfaaq
15-04-13, 06:24 AM
It would depend on the amount and what reason she used it for and if she hides it from me. Eg. she may take a few dollars to buy bread or milk without my permission no problem or if some emergency came about and she suddenly has a need for money, doctors or something. If she makes a habit of pulling money out of my wallet every now and then to save up for that expensive piece of jewellery I don't want her to buy and feels the need to cover it up with lies then that would be stealing imo.

Maghrebia00
15-04-13, 10:16 AM
Personally, i think it is not wrong after all his money is your money. Finito. The matter of which she secretly takes it like for example sneeking to your wallet purposely not wanting you to know is wrong but wouldnt consider it as stealing as you can not steal from your own home. It is just a matter of respect and manners.

If he does ask then you should explain what you bought or whatever as communication is key in a relationship.

Ashfaaq
15-04-13, 10:29 AM
Personally, i think it is not wrong after all his money is your money. Finito. The matter of which she secretly takes it like for example sneeking to your wallet purposely not wanting you to know is wrong but wouldnt consider it as stealing as you can not steal from your own home. It is just a matter of respect and manners.

If he does ask then you should explain what you bought or whatever as communication is key in a relationship.

I don't think islamically his money automatically becomes her's, just like her's does not become his. Yes she is allowed to spend from his wealth and use it within reason. What I am trying to say, is she can't just get up one morning and decide to sell his car coz it's her's too.

deen1984
15-04-13, 10:35 AM
this didnt have to become 3 pages long lol. if husband is tight-fisted, then wife can take a reasonable amount from him without permission

Hind, the wife of Ab Sufyn, came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and complained, saying: “O Messenger of Allah! Ab Sufyn is a stingy man who does not provide for me what is sufficient for me and my children. Is there any sin upon me if I take from his wealth without his knowledge?”

The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied: “Take from his wealth what suffices you and your children according to customary usage.” [Sahh al-Bukhr and Sahh Muslim]

Maghrebia00
15-04-13, 09:28 PM
I don't think islamically his money automatically becomes her's, just like her's does not become his. Yes she is allowed to spend from his wealth and use it within reason. What I am trying to say, is she can't just get up one morning and decide to sell his car coz it's her's too.

No i do not think islam covers that issue of who's money is who. You must remember when you are married you should trust each other and respect each other. If she goes off one day selling your car what kind of marriage does that show? Anyways you have a valid reason in some sense

But this perspective is from the way my parents have lived and mashallah they have survived for 30 years together. My dad's bank card is my mum's bank card. He never says no to what she wants to buy and after many children she started being reasonable with what to buy. She told me stories about how she used to spend thousands stupidly on clothes and toys in m&s and mothercare in which my eldest brothers and sister used to use only once. My dad saying is "what is money when you can not have fun and go on holidays." In time you learn that is the joy of life, learning from your mistakes.

Just advice, you should not dwell and what not to buy and what to buy. In time, inshallah, you will learn what is reasonable spending and i still strongly believe what is his, is hers because after all that trust bonds you together.

Saif-Uddin
15-04-13, 11:22 PM
:salams

I'm looking for different perspectives on the issue. If a wife takes some of her husband's money in his absence without his permission and doesn't tell him , would you consider it stealing ?

The husband gives the wife an allowance, but the wife wants the extra money to buy herself some things .

Brothers, would you mind if your wife did this or would you shrug it off as a minor issue ?

Sisters, do you think this is acceptable ?

:jkk:


:wswrwb:

regardless of whether the Husband feels it is stealing or not, the wife should not do this, she should not take his money which she has no rights to, without his permission/consent. The reverse also applies.

Seek consent/ask and you will be blame free, 9/10 the Husband won't mind.

:jkk:

Massilia
15-04-13, 11:47 PM
hence the importance of earning your own money

No headache in asking the question

Saif-Uddin
15-04-13, 11:52 PM
hence the importance of earning your own money

No headache in asking the question

she doesn't need to earn money, it is optional. She has a share of the Husbands money, he has to porovide for her food, clothing, education etc ...

all extravagance like buying tonns of jewelery and other non-essential expensive stuff is irrelevant.

:jkk:

Massilia
16-04-13, 05:30 AM
she doesn't need to earn money, it is optional. She has a share of the Husbands money, he has to porovide for her food, clothing, education etc ...

all extravagance like buying tonns of jewelery and other non-essential expensive stuff is irrelevant.

:jkk:

well that's the thing if she wants to buy jewellry what's it to you? And what is "non-essential expensive stuff" to you may be "essential expensive stuff" for her. The world doesn't revolve around you and what you think

FeedMEknowledge
24-04-13, 06:15 PM
Whats his is mine and whats mine is MINE lolol .... but being sneaky about things is definitely not the way to go. dont go in his wallet and be like *___* wow moneeyyy... by honey, I'm going shopping, I found some money.

be honest and do not try to deceive him.

As for me.. when I see money lying around I'm like aww thank you for leaving this for me... he will just laugh cuz both of our money is going to the same things we need.. Like even in terms of buying my clothes and what not.. Its not like im going to spend $500 and not communicate that with him ya now... If you guys never communicated with each other ,you would be broke before you know it... this about it. you guys have 10,000 dollars in the bank... he buys you a 5,000 ring thinking there is 5 thousand left in the bank... then you go crazy and spend $5,000 thinking there will be 5,000 left in the account... little do both of you know you are now at 0 cuz you dont communicate lol

Inquisitive10
24-04-13, 06:20 PM
It depends really on the motives for taking the money, if its for something serious or even mildly serious I have no qualms over it as long as its something that had to be done. If large sums of money were stolen to buy luxurious items, I'll beat her with a tooth-brush before divorcing.

Maghrebia00
24-04-13, 08:36 PM
It depends really on the motives for taking the money, if its for something serious or even mildly serious I have no qualms over it as long as its something that had to be done. If large sums of money were stolen to buy luxurious items, I'll beat her with a tooth-brush before divorcing.

I hope that beating with a toothbrush was a non-funny joke.

Inquisitive10
24-04-13, 09:23 PM
I hope that beating with a toothbrush was a non-funny joke.

has your hopes ever been crushed ?

Sohail123
26-04-13, 05:40 AM
assalam o alikum
as you we learn in our childhood that we are not allow to anyone's things without his permission. it the same case with husband money.no doubt that husband money is wife's money but she should take permission before taking out money

pantagathus
26-04-13, 08:37 AM
I don't agree that under those circumstances it could be considered stealing.

I don't think that a wife is obliged to ask permission as the money is shared in a marriage. She should tell him she is taking the money that way she is not being deceptive

I think she should tell the husband, not necessarily ask permission.

Repentant
22-10-13, 08:45 PM
:salams

I'm looking for different perspectives on the issue. If a wife takes some of her husband's money in his absence without his permission and doesn't tell him , would you consider it stealing ?

The husband gives the wife an allowance, but the wife wants the extra money to buy herself some things .

Brothers, would you mind if your wife did this or would you shrug it off as a minor issue ?

Sisters, do you think this is acceptable ?

:jkk:

Of course not. It would be a different story altogether if the husband was stingy but in the case of a well-fed wife stealing more than she needs, then NO.

AhlulQuran88
15-02-14, 08:50 PM
Many muslim households break apart because of finances and i think muslims should have a healthy discussion about how to deal with this.

You should spend on your wife but i like most men have a extreme dislike of shopping with women. The days that my mom took me to the shops to buy clothes never stops to give me nightmares.
Therefore i think it is simply better for the husband to take care of the bills and give his wife a certain amount of money that covers the groceries,fuel and her personal needs.
My dad managed his household like that since day one.

The only problem you have with that is if you have a ''out-going'' wife who needs like 500 a month on personal needs and this is forcing you to work overtime just to maintain a +0 balance.

It really comes down to what what a wife considers personal needs provided she does not want to work. If that means working your husband to near death, i think its pure madness .
If she wants to be able to have cofee/go out with her friends, do what she likes then that makes sense, but everything withing means.

If a brother is earning over 7K a month and hes like take this 50.... enjoy yourself honey lol well then i kinda get the stingy label

Sheikh_Google
17-02-14, 06:14 PM
As long as she texts me or let's me know i'm taking x amount of money from your secret stash :)

I don't have a issue at all

If she doesn't ask at all and doesn't tell me when I come back, it would slightly make me upset, if she forget to tell me and remembers later that is still fine with me

She can take however much she needs and wants, I wouldn't consider it stealing but wouldn't mind being notified that's all.

MoNahwi
18-02-14, 05:48 AM
My parents have been married for close to 30 years.

My father recently let me know, in private, that he greatly admires my mother's honesty. He told me that she never takes so much as a shilling from his wallet/coat pocket/etc without calling him to inform him or to ask him.

May Allah SWT give me a wife that is similarly honest.

blanchoir
18-02-14, 06:11 AM
As long as she texts me or let's me know i'm taking x amount of money from your secret stash :)

I don't have a issue at all

If she doesn't ask at all and doesn't tell me when I come back, it would slightly make me upset, if she forget to tell me and remembers later that is still fine with me

She can take however much she needs and wants, I wouldn't consider it stealing but wouldn't mind being notified that's all.

This, I think being notified is only a part of good manners.

First year of marriage: Awww she took money from my wallet, silly bunny

2nd year: Hehe, Alright alright, its cute but can you please let me know next time..

3rd year: make a thread on ummah.com, I'm divorcing my wife.

Nashmia
19-02-14, 08:18 AM
don't know what Islamic ruling is but it's rude to do that as an etiquette anyway

it's not nice to do that especially if he's providing money and everything else, if she asks and he's a reasonable guy he'll just give it

but some wives are a burden keeping up with the jones' and if she doesn't work or know the culture or language he's having to do everything, and she won't no matter how long she's been there. he has to spend extortionate amounts of money and do everything and the end of the day she won't do anything more and just sit there it's not fair on the guy or the girl going through that. working very hard and it's never balanced

amirkhan780
20-02-14, 01:37 AM
Many muslim households break apart because of finances and i think muslims should have a healthy discussion about how to deal with this.

You should spend on your wife but i like most men have a extreme dislike of shopping with women. The days that my mom took me to the shops to buy clothes never stops to give me nightmares.
Therefore i think it is simply better for the husband to take care of the bills and give his wife a certain amount of money that covers the groceries,fuel and her personal needs.
My dad managed his household like that since day one.

The only problem you have with that is if you have a ''out-going'' wife who needs like 500 a month on personal needs and this is forcing you to work overtime just to maintain a +0 balance.

It really comes down to what what a wife considers personal needs provided she does not want to work. If that means working your husband to near death, i think its pure madness .
If she wants to be able to have cofee/go out with her friends, do what she likes then that makes sense, but everything withing means.

If a brother is earning over 7K a month and hes like take this 50.... enjoy yourself honey lol well then i kinda get the stingy label


Spot on,

I would consider how "high maintenance" a sister is and how much of her personal expenses that amounts to. Finances are and have been a major cause of divorce in the western world and no offense to the sisters on here, but sisters of the western world require higher personal expenses than those from the east. Some sisters may conclude that a fancy dress or a gucci bag is a "necessity" Obviously, it's the superficial worldly gatherings that create marriage problems and lead to divorces.

Personally, I would provide the minimum and maybe a few extra for personal expenses.

Anything extra, the sister can get a job as that's not the duty of the husband in Islam.

Makeup, dresses, gucci bags. Stuff ain't cheap. hahaha :rolleyes:

nonameakhi
20-02-14, 03:04 AM
Islamically this issue is not complicated. We tend to complicate it

The role of the husband is one of provider, the whole his money is my money is true but only to a degree. If needs are met then his money is his money and he has other obligations too, eg zakat family in need etc etc

In general terms a wife is allowed to take money without her husbands permission, its the specifics that make it matter

In my family the men have always done the grocery shopping with mine specifically either me or my sons. The wife and daughter/sister writes the list

I have money in my wallet and some in a safe. My wife has access to both. I leave the wallet on the mantle piece. Even My kids know my card pins and have access to the safe

Its simple they NEVER touch anything unless a need arises. If a need arises then its not stealing. So milk has ran out, take money from dads wallet and get some, dads wallet isn't there get some from safe

Apart from hat they all have access to their own money too. However my responsibilities are met with my money. This includes pens and paper etc for school

Saif-Uddin
19-06-14, 07:35 PM
Why a Wife would not ask her Husband before takinh his money beats me,

clearly there's Trust issues here,

if she had any sense she would always ask before taking.

as for needs such and the basic food, clothing and shelter he is supposed to provide them anyway.

:jkk:

AbulUthman
19-06-14, 08:29 PM
Aishah (May Allah be pleased with her) said: Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, said to the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam): Abu Sufyan is a niggardly man and does not give me and my children adequate provisions for maintenance unless I take something from his possession without his knowledge. The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said to her, "Take from his possessions on a reasonable basis that much which may suffice for you and your children.''
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].
Perfectly fits in the situation, don't know if it's already been posted !

Grimmjow
19-06-14, 08:44 PM
Its a pretty clear-cut imo


If he is meeting her basic needs and doing the proper sustenance, she has no right to his money without his general permission (or an arrangement the couple has worked out)

If he is not meeting her needs because of stinginess, she is allowed to take what is needed to sustain her and her kids (if she has kids)

Its indicated by the hadith above.

Asma28
20-06-14, 01:01 AM
Don't consider it stealing at all, his money is my money. Of course if I needed a ridiculous amount then I wouldn't take it without his permission but a reasonably amount I could take without asking.

Although personally I don't ever see myself taking his money without mentioning it to him, unless he wasn't there. Thats how I do things at home, even though my dad always says 'you can take money whenever you need it' I still always mention to him when I have taken some money.

Grimmjow
20-06-14, 05:19 AM
Don't consider it stealing at all, his money is my money. Of course if I needed a ridiculous amount then I wouldn't take it without his permission but a reasonably amount I could take without asking.

Although personally I don't ever see myself taking his money without mentioning it to him, unless he wasn't there. Thats how I do things at home, even though my dad always says 'you can take money whenever you need it' I still always mention to him when I have taken some money.

Of course if a couple is pretty chill with their money and they got no problem taking from each other, that's their own business. But if the husband wants to keep the finances separate, then beyond sustenance, it is his money, not hers.

Anata
20-06-14, 07:27 AM
I really do not get the whole my or your money issue, if both are working okay, then they can seperate it.
but if the woman is staying at home and she has no source of income, then his money should be her money as well,
because she is working at home to take care of the kids and cooking food, then of course she should also have full
access to the money her husband earns.. sure she can tell him if she is spending money, but it should definitely not
be considered his money only...

LailaTheMuslim
20-06-14, 08:07 AM
if you're a stay at home mother and rely on your husband for income, then i don't see a problem with using his money without asking he is supposed to provide for you, and you don't have any other resort as you are not earning.

sislam93
20-06-14, 06:02 PM
if you're a stay at home mother and rely on your husband for income, then i don't see a problem with using his money without asking he is supposed to provide for you, and you don't have any other resort as you are not earning.

Yes it is not stealing unless she wants to use it for something that is not necessary.

al-siddiq
20-06-14, 08:31 PM
You cannot take that which does not belong to you. Similarly you cannot 'take' your father's money, or your mothers money, etc.

Rather, often there is implicit permission from your spouse to take whatever you want, due to the trust they share.

Also, if the husband is starving the wife or children, or other such things then the situation is different.


I would advise not giving replies to questions unless you know what Islam says, otherwise you will have to answer to Allah why you used personal logic on a matter in which Islam spoke.

wizard.of.oz
20-06-14, 08:52 PM
I don't have a problem sharing but I would like to be notified.

I would be disappointed if my wife takes my cards behind my backs and spends it freely.