Rape In Marriage

[marjan]

Salaam

I was recently told that rape in marriage could not exist Islamically speaking... Is this really the case or does it fall under another title.
Hmmm

[Ali_Khan]

Doesnt this come under the ruling against beating your wife?

[reachin'out]

Rape certainly can exist!

However, a Muslim lady should always be prepared for her husband's comfort. She shouldn't be in a position where he would be tempted to force her.

Having said that, men ought to be patient if their wives, through their natural emotions or for just cause, withdraws herself. The way back is negotiation.

Any woman should take heed, however. If she leaves her husband unhappy when he lays down to sleep, the angels curse her until morning (I think it is 'til morning - please correct me).

I think the command for us to be available to our husbands is what causes the myth that Islam does not recognize rape inside marriage by a husband on his wife.

Men are also commanded to be gentle with their wives and not abuse them, and to have patience because of our nature.

The latter supercedes the former

[outlandish]

I think Rape afcourse exists, if the men forces himself on the women and since the women(wife) has to comply with his wishes, even if its against her own will and she doesnt want to, u could say its like rape.
I wonder do husbands get curses till morning too if he leaves the wife sleeping unhappy, or is this reserved for women only

:rolleyes:

[taz]

MUSLIM MALES SHOULD BE MORE PATIENT WITH THEIR WIVES. THEY SPEND MANY YEARS SINGLE AND DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY SO THEY SHOULD BE MORE PATIENT IF THEIR WIVES CANNOT FULLY SATISFY THEIR DESIRES!

[Kaaju Barfi]

man shud be patient, the woman is not a sex toy, she is another human being with feelings. some ppl these days don't understand this. why have people abondoned the sunnah of the holiest of prophets[SAWS]?

[Ebony]

surely if the woman refuses yet her husband is still at it..he must be sinning in some form? arent u supposed2 treat ur wives well in Islam?
some ppl really need 2 put things into perspective. treating her like a sex object isnt goin2 improve the marriage or their conduct with each other

Ws

[Gwenhwyvar]

If a woman says NO , then its no. if he goes ahead with it anyway...its rape, even if they are married.

Marriage between a man and woman should be a loving unity. Many men need to remember how our Beloved Prophet (PBUH) treated his wives. :)

[Ebony]

many men only seem2 remember the number of wives aspect not how they were treated :rolleyes:

[dour]

No is no, no matter what. It is rape, and any form of rape against anyone should be as distasteful as eating your own parents.

[Lateafha]

Well

a woman isn't supposed to refuse right? unless she's sick or she's in a state of unpurity ( menstruation). I read something about this a while ago.

But my personal opinion would be, " Patience is essential" as some of you have already said.

[Ebony]

if the woman isnt sick, or impure..and she still says no, 4 whatever other reason (stress, tired etc)...is it stil permissible 4 the husband2 force her?
surely they(spouses) r supposed to treat each other better than that in a marriage

Ws

[.: Anna :.]

Originally posted by Ebony
if the woman isnt sick, or impure..and she still says no, 4 whatever other reason (stress, tired etc)...is it stil permissible 4 the husband2 force her?
surely they(spouses) r supposed to treat each other better than that in a marriage

Ws

yeah w@ about "the best of u is the one whos best 2 their wives?"

[Ebony]

Originally posted by anna2000uk
yeah w@ about "the best of u is the one whos best 2 their wives?"

in response to that, i can only re-iterate what i mentioned previously:

many men only seem2 remember the number of wives aspect not how they were treated

:rolleyes:

[Ali_Khan]

i read somewhere that muhummad said that the man is cursed who goes to his wife like a dog in heat. i read something like that.

[outlandish]

Originally posted by Ebony
in response to that, i can only re-iterate what i mentioned previously:

many men only seem2 remember the number of wives aspect not how they were treated

:rolleyes:
yes I very much agree to that
I think if its a nice happy marriage there would be no need for force, and if the women doesnt want to says no means no

[outlandish]

Here are two questions about sexual intimacy in marriage I posed to a sister on another women's e-mail group that I belong to: 1.) If the wife desires sexual intimacy with her husband, is the husband within his rights to refuse her and not come to the bed? (I read somewhere that a husband is not obligated to gratify his wife sexually; it was the other way around.) 2.) Is sexual intimacy the exclusive right of the husband and not the wife?

I found her response disturbing: "In the matter of sexual rights, we all know that Qur'an tells us that we have rights on them similar to what they have on us. The similarity is in the fact that they must fulfill our needs at least once in a four month period. We, on the other hand, must fulfill their needs at any moment they require us, as long as the means are halal (in private, not during menses, not during the fast of Ramadhan and not anal)."

On one hand, I agree that a husband must be sexually intimate with his wife in private and is forbidden to do so during the wife's menses, during the Ramadhan fast, and definitely not anal. However, I strongly objected to her statement about husbands fulfilling our needs at least once in a four-month period, while wives must always be at their beck and call to fulfill theirs. I got the distinct impression from this sister that because a man wears the title "husband," he automatically has wanton, excessive sexual licence with his wife. In other words, if he wants to have sex with his wife 24-7 (Allah forbid!!!), the wife cannot refuse him. Or, if he demands to have sex, say, 50 times a day, the wife must automatically stop, drop what she's doing, and accommodate him without any argument or protest--all because "he's the man". Really?? And all because "he's the breadwinner"??

Although she called my language "vulgar," I was brutally honest in my response to her on this issue: "Sister, what you deemed vulgar language in my previous post to you was not really vulgar. I was being real and brutally honest, and I'm still not apologetic for what I wrote. If you can just look past the so-called "vulgarity," I was emphasizing that a husband, regardless of his "high status," has no right to go to excesses regarding sexual intimacy. It becomes an addiction, like drug addiction: You just got to have it all the time. In her book, Living Islam: Treading The Path Of The Ideal, Sister Ruqaiyyah Waris Maqsood emphasizes, 'In a truly Islamic marriage, neither partner should try to force the other one to do anything which is distasteful or unpleasant or painful to them.

"I am familiar with the hadith regarding a wife not coming to the husband's bed when he desires intimacy. Now, what about the husband not coming to the wife's bed? To that, Sister Ruqaiyyah writes, 'Since wives have the same rights in marriage as husbands, the same principle would apply if the husband refused the loving requests of his wife.' The sister is correct! In other words, no double standard regarding sexual intimacy in marriage. That 'high status' of the husband has nothing to do with it. And I do not want my sons coming up in my face with that nonsense. I won't even listen to that if they tried. They know how I am." In other words, "husband" does not mean "God of the house," "head honcho," or "dictator".

Also in reference to this same hadith, Dr. Kaukab Siddique states in his book Liberation of Women Thru Islam, "Many Muslims today teach that the wife is entirely at the service of the husband as far as sexual intercourse is concerned. The Shafiite School is most pro-husband in this respect. However, a close look even at the hadith most popular with this group shows that the hadith is not saying what these people say is it saying. This hadith does not give the husband the right to force himself on the wife; nor does it recommend any mental or economic pressure. It is simply giving good advice to the wife, and urging a mutually satisfactory relationship. In Islam, extra-marital relationships are strictly forbidden; hence the spouses are urged to take good care of each other. I have not come across any hadith which would permit the husband to have intercourse with his wife, regardless of how she feels about it...."

In his book Islam: The Choice of Thinking Women, Ismail Adam Patel writes, "Marriage in Islam is much more than a means of satisfying sexual desires; it is a social contract of co-habitation through which both partners may find companionship and a refuge from the trials and tribulations of life. In Islam, a woman is not seen as an object for male gratification or a workhorse who is expected to cater to every need and whim of the male. She is a spiritual and moral being who is brought into union with a man on the basis of a solemn pledge which Allah is called upon to witness. The Prophet (SAS) is reported to have said, 'You have seen nothing like marriage for increasing the love of two people". I think if a lot more men thought like this instead of viewing women (especially wives) as inferior and second-class (even worse, no-class), there would be a lot more happy, content, and fulfilled women/wives in the Muslim ummah.

The message is loud and clear: Wives (as well as unmarried women) are individuals, persons, and above all, believers in their own right, and husbands (as well as unmarried men) must honor, value, and respect that if they expect to have happy, successful Islamic marriages. In other words, a man must always keep in mind that "wife" does not mean "doormat," "yes person," "sex slave," or "legal prostitute." She is a believer in Allah--first, last, always, and forever! For a wife having, as she may put it, "the world's greatest husband" is, indeed, a blessing from Allah to Whom she must give all thanks and praise.

May Allah bless all of us to remain strong in faith and on the Straight Path!

Your sister in faith,
Shafeeqah

[.: Anna :.]

where does 4 months come from anyway cuz I thought it was sposed 2 be 4 days?!

[reachin'out]

4 days because, if the man had 4 wives, each would be entitled to his time every 4 days.

4 months refers to the idda of a woman. Some schools adhere to the idea that if a man deliberately keeps away from his wife for the whole period of idda it is an uspoken intention of divorce, and the woman would be within her rights to ask him to divorce her on account of him not fulfilling her needs.

[monkey]

Shouldn't this topic be in sister's forum?

[.: Anna :.]

Originally posted by reachin'out
4 days because, if the man had 4 wives, each would be entitled to his time every 4 days.

4 months refers to the idda of a woman. Some schools adhere to the idea that if a man deliberately keeps away from his wife for the whole period of idda it is an uspoken intention of divorce, and the woman would be within her rights to ask him to divorce her on account of him not fulfilling her needs.

oh right, thanx 4 explanation :)

[abaleada]

Usually when a man forces himself on a woman, it injures the woman. This is absolutely not permited in Islam, and the woman has right to qisas. There is an article on Sunnipath that actually works with the hadith of the angels cursing the wife through the night. Lemme get it...

[abaleada]

http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/qa00002617.aspx
Can a wife refuse the husband’s call to bed? If not, isn’t it like rape?

Answered by Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam, Darul Iftaa (Leicester, UK)

What are the rights of woman after marriage? If the husband calls the wife to bed, can she say no? does the husband need the wife's consent to have Intercourse? If there is no consent, and the wife doesn't want to, and he forces himself over her, isn't that rape?"







In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,


Sayyiduna Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:


“When a man calls his wife for sexual intimacy and she refuses him, thus he spends the night in anger, then the angels curse her until morning.” (Sahih al-Bukhari & Sahih Muslim, See: Riyad al-Salihin, No. 281)


Talq ibn Ali (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:


“When a man calls his wife for sexual intimacy, then she should come, even if she is (busy) in the cooking area.” (Sunan al-Tirmizi & Sunan al-Nasa’i)


Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:


“By the one in whose hands is my life, there is not a man who calls his wife for sexual intimacy and she refuses him except that Allah becomes angry with her until her husband is pleased with her.” (Sahih Muslim, No. 1436)


The above and other narrations of the beloved of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) clearly signify the importance of the wife obeying her husband in his request for sexual intimacy. It will be a grave sin, in normal circumstances, for the wife to refuse her husband, and even more, if this leads the husband into the unlawful.


Imam al-Nawawi (Allah have mercy on him) states in his commentary on the Hadith of Abu Huraira stated above:


“This Hadith indicates that it is unlawful (haram) for the wife to refuse her husband for sexual intimacy without a valid reason. Menstruation will not be considered a valid reason, for the husband has a right to enjoy her from above the garment (on top of cloths).” (Sharh Sahih Muslim, P. 1084)


However, this does not in any way mean that the husband may force himself over her for sexual gratification. The Hadith mentions that,


“the husband spends the night in anger or being displeased,”


which clearly shows that he must restrain himself from forcing himself over her. Had this not been the case, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) would have advised the husband to gain his right in a forceful manner.


Similarly, it should be remembered here that, the wife must obey her husband in his request for sexual intimacy unless she has a valid reason. She must obey him as long as she does not have to forego her own rights. As such, if the wife is ill, fears physical harm or she is emotionally drained, etc; she will not be obliged to comply with her husband’s request for sexual intimacy. Rather, the husband would be required to show her consideration.


Allah Most High says:


“On no soul does Allah place a burden greater than it can bear” (al-Baqarah, 286)


Many times it is observed that the husband demands from his wife to fulfil his sexual needs no matter what state she is in, and uses the above quoted Hadiths to impose himself over her.


If the wife is not in a state to engage in sexual activities and has a genuine and valid reason, and the husband forces her, then he will be sinful. Muslim husbands should realize that their wives are also humans and not some type of machines that can be switched on whenever they desire!


Finally, these matters should be resolved with mutual understanding, regard for one another, love, gentleness and putting one’s spouse before one’s self.


The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) has reported to have said:


“None of you can be a true believer until they love for their brother what they love for themselves.”


The importance of this is even greater in a marital relationship.


And Allah knows best


Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari

Darul Iftaa, Leicester, UK

www.daruliftaa.org
“© Author, 2002-2004. Except for fair usage, no part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted in any form or by any means electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording, or otherwise, without the prior permission of the Copyright owner. Fair usage is defined as sharing printed or electronic copy with others through email or keeping for own record. For information, contact info@sunnipath.com”

[Chained_Water]

Jazak Allah Khair sis(?) abaleada for that :D

[.: Anna :.]

yeh she is a sis ;) lol

[Lateafha]

Originally posted by oneshot
Allah save us from the thought.

Ameen

[Dora_Explorer]

i know someone that has this problem, when she was on her menses her husband had relations with her despite her protests. When she had a baby he did the same and said it was within his right and even when they said it was in the quran not to he said that he was weak and he could not help himself yet he never apologized to her and kept doing it to her. It has been years and she complains that he still approaches her during these times and does not care what she thinks, or says. Even if she says fear God he will say I am but I can't help myself and God understands my nature and will forgive me. I fear for this sister as she is suffering and when she says if you treat me this way I will go he says fine run away if that will solve your problems but it won't solve it. So she stays behind hoping that one day he will change and realize and repent or even say I'm sorry.

[Tahiyah]

i know someone that has this problem, when she was on her menses her husband had relations with her despite her protests. When she had a baby he did the same and said it was within his right and even when they said it was in the quran not to he said that he was weak and he could not help himself yet he never apologized to her and kept doing it to her. It has been years and she complains that he still approaches her during these times and does not care what she thinks, or says. Even if she says fear God he will say I am but I can't help myself and God understands my nature and will forgive me. I fear for this sister as she is suffering and when she says if you treat me this way I will go he says fine run away if that will solve your problems but it won't solve it. So she stays behind hoping that one day he will change and realize and repent or even say I'm sorry.
guy sounds like a total loser, not to mention a sicko. perhaps she should share with him the harmful effects of intercourse during menses and encourage him to get stronger in his deen, fasting.etc. she could seek council with her Imam/Shaykh. women need to stand up to men like this and realize their God given rights.

whats more important, obeying your creator or pleasing a :wacko: like this?

stop taking crap off these brothers that only apply Islam to you and not to themselves. it disgusts me that people abuse Islam this way.

[sana]

i tottally agree wid u sis tahiyah..ppl like him shud b taught a lesson this is no way of treating a woman i know its hard but she shud gather the strength and stand up against it for good as women arent made weak may ALLAH swt show her the right path

[jamila]

i know someone that has this problem, when she was on her menses her husband had relations with her despite her protests. When she had a baby he did the same and said it was within his right and even when they said it was in the quran not to he said that he was weak and he could not help himself yet he never apologized to her and kept doing it to her. It has been years and she complains that he still approaches her during these times and does not care what she thinks, or says. Even if she says fear God he will say I am but I can't help myself and God understands my nature and will forgive me. I fear for this sister as she is suffering and when she says if you treat me this way I will go he says fine run away if that will solve your problems but it won't solve it. So she stays behind hoping that one day he will change and realize and repent or even say I'm sorry.He is not within his rights. What he is doing is HARAM in Islam.

[faqir]

Marriage: ‘Demanding sex’ as abuse or rape

Question:

Regarding the answer to the quetsion "Is it not a form of sexual abuse
for a husband to be able to force his wife to have sex? How come the wife
does not have the same right? " (which I found in the list, dated 5/25/2003)

The answer you give says, amongst other things, that the husband can DEMAND sex.. but the wife cannot DEMAND it (thought they are both obliged to satisfy each other)..

Why can the husband demand and the wife not? and where is that ruling derived from? What is the source from the Prophets hadiths that states this?


In the Name of Allah, Most Merciful and Compassionate.

May His blessings and peace be on His Beloved Prophet Muhammad, and his
family, companions, and followers.

Assalamu alaikum,

Allah Most High has decreed that marriage entails certain rights and responsibilities, for both parties, because of wisdoms not lost on anyone who reflects and realizes that this is the command of the One aware of what is best for His creation.

Among these obligatory rights is the right for each spouse’s physical needs
to be fulfilled through marriage. The only difference is that the husband may ‘demand’ this, while the wife cannot, though she too has the right to due complaint and to seek that her rights be fulfilled. [Ibn Abidin, Radd al-Muhtar]

This returns to various considerations, including the difference in the normal nature of male and female sexual desire, the husband being the amir of the family, and the consideration of how each party’s ‘demanding’ wouldaffect marital relations, given the nature of men and the nature of women.

Thus, this is ruling deeply rooted in Divine Wisdom. [Shah Wali Allah, Hujjat Allah al-Baligha; Zuhayli, al-Usra al-Muslima]

This is at the level of law.

The law of love is different: seeking one’s rights through demands, argument, and firmness is contrary to the spirit of the sunna of the Beloved Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace). It is established in the Sacred Law that it is disliked for a man to have intercourse with his wife without foreplay, given that women generally take longer to be reach high sexual arousal. [Khadimi, al-Bariqa fi Sharh al-Tariqa, 4.203 and elsewhere]

This is based on the reported words of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace),

“Do not have begin intercourse until she has experienced desire like the
desire you experience, lest you fulfill your desires before she does.” [Mentioned by Imam Ibn Qudama in his Mughni]

And it is authentically established that he (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Verily your wife has rights over you.” [Bukhari and Muslim]

We should be careful about the rhetoric we apply when thinking of things. There are two ways to look at things:

a) subjective human perspectives alone, the following of which keeps one in the darknesses of confusion;

or

b) through the guidance of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace), which takes us out of these multitudinous darknesses to the light of spiritual realization.

Following the guidance of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) entails not only outward ‘following’ of forms but—more importantly—submitting to it with one’s heart, mind, and soul out of realization that all good and benefit lie in the guidance of Allah and His Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him).


فَإِلَهُكُمْ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ فَلَهُ أَسْلِمُوا وَبَشِّرِ الْمُخْبِتِينَ
الَّذِينَ إِذَا ذُكِرَ اللَّهُ وَجِلَتْ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَالصَّابِرِينَ
عَلَى
مَا أَصَابَهُمْ وَالْمُقِيمِي الصَّلاةِ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ
يُنْفِقُونَ

Allah Most High tells us in the Qur’an,

“But your god is One God: submit to Him alone, and give good tiding to those who humble themselves in submission,-To those whose hearts when Allah is mentioned, are filled with fear, who show patient perseverance over their afflictions, keep up regular prayer, and spend (in charity) out of what We have bestowed upon them.” [Qur'an, 022.034-035]


And Allah alone gives success.

Wassalam,

Faraz Rabbani ( <mailto:faraz@sunnipath.com (http://us.f525.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=faraz@sunnipath.com&YY=84059&order=down&sort=date&pos=0)> faraz@sunnipath.com (http://us.f525.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=faraz@sunnipath.com&YY=84059&order=down&sort=date&pos=0))
Sunni Path - <http://www.sunnipath.com (http://www.sunnipath.com/)> www.sunnipath.com (http://www.sunnipath.com/)
My Blog: http://blog.masud.co.uk/faraz.htm (http://blog.masud.co.uk/faraz.htm)
Quality Islamic products: www.Caravansaray.com (http://www.caravansaray.com/)

[Baby Paw]

If she ain't feeling the way that I'm feeling then no point in forcing the issue.

The feelings between both parties got to be mutual, if not then it's a non starter.

Can't force yourself on nobody, that is sick and perverted.

[Ahlam]

If she ain't feeling the way that I'm feeling then no point in forcing the issue.

The feelings between both parties got to be mutual, if not then it's a non starter.

Can't force yourself on nobody, that is sick and perverted.
lol.

[Baby Paw]

On the strength though, making love is like the most intimate of physical acts.

Like when man and woman connect like live wires, you got so much passionate electricity being generated you could black out the entire national grid.

But thats like when the man and the woman are feeling the same, they both want the same thing, cos it takes 2 to tango.

However, if a husband acts like a brute and tries to force wifey into intimacy when she don't wanna get down. Then that ain't right, that is very inconsiderate of the husband and he should realise the emotional injuries that he is inflicting upon wifey as a result of such behaviour.

Husband and Wife making love, that is a blessing from Allah, don't abuse that blessing by being a transgressor, for Allah don't like the transgressors.

Passions, Hatred and Infidelity, and these are the last days.

[Crono]

man shud be patient, the woman is not a sex toy, she is another human being with feelings. some ppl these days don't understand this. why have people abondoned the sunnah of the holiest of prophets[SAWS]? Actually, Sunnah says there are 3 reaosns you marry, in order of importnace:

1. Because it is highly prefered, there is a hadith that says: "The gates of jannah are closed to the man who does not marry yet he has the means"
(i don't know right away who or where this hadith came from, but i heard it in a lecture from a shiekh at my mosque, if i find thew offical text, i will post it)

2. To propigate life, (have chidlren)

3. to fulfill humanly needs (love, sex, comapnionship, etc)

IMO opnion those who marry for the soul reason to love the other person should be ware, of the diffrence between the 3 loves, (unconditional love [for Allah alone] natural love [love of wife, mother, children], and evil love [ love of self] this is jsut my thought on it, but i may be in accurate in a place or two, any corrections welcome

edit: i have not read this whole ost, so this may have been explained already

[Mr_Jailer]

if the woman isnt sick, or impure..and she still says no, 4 whatever other reason (stress, tired etc)...is it stil permissible 4 the husband2 force her?
surely they(spouses) r supposed to treat each other better than that in a marriage

Maybe he should give hints a few hours before bedtime. It might get her in the mood and to know what is to come. And vice versa.

It's not all 'bout 'wham bam, thank u ma'am'.

[Mr_Jailer]

if a husband acts like a brute and tries to force wifey into intimacy when she don't wanna get down.

Even if she is ready for it, I don't think she should 'get down'. :nervous:

[Ebony]

Maybe he should give hints a few hours before bedtime. It might get her in the mood and to know what is to come. And vice versa.

It's not all 'bout 'wham bam, thank u ma'am'.
maybe some men in some marriages prefer the 'wham bam' approach. less taxing fr them, God forbid they hve to PLAN b4hand or TALK to their wife (!) :eek2:

[marjan]

ONe word. LAZY.

Actually another.

Selfish.

and oh look, another another

Animalistic.

[Ebony]

ONe word. LAZY.

Actually another.

Selfish.

and oh look, another another

Animalistic.
3 words then :D

[marjan]

my fingers were busy typing I couldn't use them to help me count.

[Mr_Jailer]

God forbid they hve to PLAN b4hand or TALK to their wife (!) :eek2:

LOL. Its called family plannin' - ha ha. :rotfl:

[Ebony]

LOL. Its called family plannin' - ha ha. :rotfl:family planning is an alien concept to some :p

[Baby Paw]

Mr Jailer huh?

If you ain't gonna get down on it, then how do you expect to bomb diggedy?