View Full Version : The Beard Thread
AbuMubarak
28-05-02, 05:19 AM
True love demands that you do everything, as your beloved would like to see it. To please Allah and His beloved Rasulullah an earnest and sincere effort must be made to carry out as much as possible of the revealed teachings, and not follow the whims, fancies and fantasies of misguided men, and misleading Shaytaan.
May Allah grant us all the towfeeq, strength of conforming and courage to practice Islam as taught by Rasulullah and uphold his divine way. --Aameen.
'Say (O. Muhammad) if you wish to love Allah, follow me; Allah will surely love you'. Al-Qur'an.
What Islam says About the Beard
From The Shari Length of the Beard by Mufti Afzal Elias, May Allah reward him abundantly, aameen.
Transferred to the web for the benefit of all Muslims by Muhammed Desai (Islam.tc)
This pamphlet is to emphasize the importance and the length of the beard. Many Muslims have queried regarding this point. I have also found that people prefer keeping a beard in imitation of what's in vogue rather than that prescribed by Nabi (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam). A compilation of this nature has become important because the impact of the western way of life seems to be luring unwary Muslims into such a craze that the importance of the beard itself is being doubted and scoffed at.
To those who feel the issue is trivial to worry about, may ALLAH guide him. But to those who genuinely wish to learn and practice what is right, here are sufficient proofs from the Qur'an, Ahadeeth, and learned scholars.
Concerning Adherence to the Sunnah in the Holy Qur'an:
"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you." (Quran 4:59)
"O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak)." (Quran 8:20)
"O ye who believe! give your response to Allah and His Messenger, when He calleth you to that which will give you life; and know that Allah cometh in between a man and his heart, and that it is He to Whom ye shall (all) be gathered."(Quran 8:24)
"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah an excellent exempler for him who hopes in Allah and the Final Day, and who remembers Allah." (Quran 33:21)
"What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from the people of the townships,- belongs to Allah,- to His Messenger and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer; in order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Messenger gives you, and refrain from what he prohibits you. And fear Allah: for Allah is strict in Punishment." (Quran 59:7)
Importance of the Beard in the words of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam):
(1) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said "I have no connection with one who shaves, shouts and tears his clothing eg. in grief or affication."
- Reported by Abu Darda (R.A.) in Muslim, Hadith no. 501
(2) The teachings of Hadhrat Ammar Bin Yaasir, Abdullah Ibn Umar, Sayyidina Umar, Abu Hurairah and Jaabir (R.A.), indicate that ALL used to keep beards that were one fist length or more. Hadhrat Jaabir (R.A.) had said: "We used to grow long beards and only during Hajj and Umrah did we trim them to the required length (i.e. fist length)."
(3) Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (R.A.) relates that: "He who imitates the kuffar (non-believers) and dies in that state, he will be raised up with them on the Day of Qiyamat (Judgement)."
(4) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) says: "Trim closely the moustache, and let the beard flow (Grow)."
- Narrated Ibn Umar (R.A.) in Muslim, Hadith no. 498
(5) "Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) ordered us to trim the moustache closely and spare the beard" says Ibn Umar.
- Muslim, Hadith no. 449
(6) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)said: "Act against contrary to the polythesists, trim closely the moustache and grow the beard."
- Reported by Ibn Umar (R.A.) in Muslim, Hadith no. 500
(7) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said "Trim closely the moustache and grow the beard."
- Reported by Abu Hurairah (R.A.) in Muslim, Hadith no. 501
(8) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "Anyone who shaves has no claim to the mercy of Allah"
- Reported by Ibn Abbas (R.A.) in Tibrabi
(9) Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (R.A.) used to cut that portion (which exceeds the grip of the hand) of the beard.
- Tirmidhi
The Beard according to the Great Imams of Jurisprudence
HanafiI
Imam Muhammed (R.A.) writes in his book "Kitabul Aathaar" where he relates from Imam Abu Hanifa (R.A.) who relates from Hadhrat Haytham (R.A.) who relates from Ibn Umar (R.A.) that he (Ibn Umar) used to hold his beard in his hand and cut off which was longer. Imam Muhammed (R.A.) says that this is what we follow and this was the decision of Imam Abu Hanifa. Therefore, according to Hanafies, to shorten the beard less than a FIST LENGTH is HARAAM and on this is IJMA (concensus of opinion).
Shafi'i
Imam Shafi (R.A.) in his Kitabul Umm states, "To shave the beard is HARAAM." (Shari Minhaj dar Shara Fasl Aqueeqa).
Maaliki
Shekh Ahmad Nafarawi Maliki in the commentary of Imam Abu Zayed's booklet states, "to shave the beard is without doubt haraam according to all Imams." It is also mention in "Tamheed" which is a commentary of "Muatta" (Sunnan Imam Malik (R.A.)) that to shave the beard is HARAAM and among males the only ones to resort to this practice (of shaving) are the HERMAPHRODITES (persons who possess both male and female features and characteristics).
Hanbali
The Hanbalies in the famous Al-Khanie'a Hanbali Fatawa Kitab state that "to grow the beard is essential and to shave it is HARAAM." Also in the Hanbali Mathab books "Sharahul Muntahaa" and "Sharr Manzoomatul Aadaab", it is stated "The most accepted view is that it is HARAAM (prohibited to shave the beard)."
Also note, according to scholars of Islam: "To shave off the beard is unlawful (haraam) and one who shaves his beard is legally speaking an unrighteous fellow (FASIQ); hence, it is NOT PERMISSIBLE to appoint such a man as an Imam. To say Taraweeh behind such an Imam is MAKRUH-E-TAHRIMI (near prohibition)" (Shami Vol.1, p.523)
The Durre-Mukhtar states: "No one has called it permissible to trim it (the beard) less than FIST-LENGTH as is being done by some westernized Muslims and hermaphrodites." (Vol. 2, p. 155). Also, "It is forbidden (haraam) for a man to cut off another's beard." (Vol. 5, p. 359).
Conclusion
Thus, a Muslim who shaves or shortens his beard is like a hermaphrodite, his Imamate near prohibition, his evidence is not valid, he will not have the right to vote or being voted for. Shaving and shortening the beard is the action of non-believers. Imam Ghazzali (RA) says: "Know that the key to total bliss (Saadah) lies in following the Sunnah and in emulating the life of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) in ALL that issues from him, and in ALL his doings even if it concerns the manner of his eating, rising, sleeping, and speaking. I do say thisin relation to rituals in worship ONLY because ther is no way neglecting the Sunnah reported of him in such matters - but what I say INCLUDES EVERY ASPECT of his daily life." (Kitab al Arbain Addin, Cairo 1344, p. 89). Furthermore, in the Holy Qur'an, Allah told Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) to say:
"Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Quran 3:31)
The daily recitation of a band of angels of Allah is "Holy is the Being who adorned men with beards and women with braids" (Takmela e Bahr al Raiq, Vol. 3, p. 331)
Lastly, Allah Ta'ala says in the Holy Qur'an: "And when the true believers are called to Allah and His Rasul (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) [to accept and practice the law and commands of Allah and His Rasul (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)] that he may pass judgement upon them, their ONLY reply is 'We hear and obey.' Such men shall surely prosper." (24:51)
THE CALL IS TO GROW A FIST LENGTH BEARD, LET US HEAR AND OBEY TO PROSPER.
The Blessed Beard... Grow it, what's so hard to understand?
Commentary by Islam.tc
Muslims are overcome with western influence in their lives and it's easy to forget, nay, neglect the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him). Little do these Muslims realize the magnitude of their actions in imitating Kufaar (see Hadith section). Hopefully the information presented herein will enlighten those. And then there are others who claim that the matters concerning beards is a "little" issue not worthy of mention nor practice. To them I say get off the denial bandwagon, you're a Muslim! Follow the Prophet (Peace be upon him) in all aspects of life, for he was the best of examples. I couldn't tell you how many times I've mistaken a Muslim brother (outside of the Masjid) for a kaafir on account of his clean-shaven, well oiled, face. How can I say "Assalaamu Alaikum Brother!" when I do not know if he is a Muslim. Yet that very brother then wonders why he was ignored! Sure, he can tell if others are Muslim on account of their beard, but what about himself? From one brother to another, I say: "Grow a beard, then, since it also promotes Brotherhood in the real world. Stand with your Brothers, be one. We know you are handsome without it (a beard), but who cares? What matters is how Allah (S.W.T.) sees you. And when you do grow a beard, don't mock the Sunnah, please grow it correctly, i.e. FIST LENGTH. That is the prescribed length and no shorter (see Hadeeth section)..." Peace.
DEFINITION OF A BEARD: (Another version)
Shaykh ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah preserve him) said: The definition of the beard as stated by the scholars of (Arabic) language is: the hair of the face, jawbone and lcheeks, in the sense that all the hair on the cheeks, jawbone and chin is part of the beard and removing any of it is counted as a sin, because the Messenger (peace aand blessings of Allah b e upon him) said: “Let your beards grow,” “Leave your beards alone,” “Let your beards increase.
,” Let your beards be full,”. This indicates that it is not permissible to remove anything from the beard. But the sin may vary in degree – shaving the beard is worse than shortening it, because it is a more obvious contradiction of the Sunnah.
And Allah knows best.
51:50 – Hasten ye then (at once) to Allah: I am from Him a warner to you clear and open!
Hadith No:3
How severe is this warning. Those with long moustaches regard themselves as members of the elite and register themselves as Muslims in official records, but Rasulullah – Peace be upon him – refuses to accept them as members of his group. Wasthila R.A. relates that Rasulullah – Peace be upon him – said: “Whoever does not cut his moustache is not of us”.
The Hadith categorically states that the beard should be lengthened and the moustache cut. This is related both in Bukhari and Muslim. Rasulullah – Peace be upon him – has sternly commanded this to his followers.
Wherever Rasulullah – Peace be upon him - gives a command then that act becomes compulsory ( Waajib) , and to neglect this Waajib command is totally prohibited, (Haram) . Thus it is forbidden (Haraam) to shave the beard and keep long moustaches. This is further elaborated in another Hadith in which Rasulullah –Peace be upon him - has said “ whosoever does not cut his moustache is not of our group. This has been related by Ahmad, Tirmizi and Nasa’ee.
In Ibn Dawood it is mentioned thus: We used to allow our beards to increase in length and breadth, except during Hajj and Umrah’ (after which it used to be cut back to size)
May Allah enable everyone to draw benefit from this and consider this effort as exclusive to Him. :
I respect Islam, I respect pretty much all Muslims, but I could never be one.
I just can't buy into the concept of Hadiths. Could someone please elaborate on their purpose and why you would need them?
Thx
Originally posted by Raven
I just can't buy into the concept of Hadiths. Could someone please elaborate on their purpose and why you would need them? Muslims are asked to follow the example of the Prophet (pbuh). Hadiths are the sayings, actions, and approvals of the Prophet. We wouldn't be able to practice our religion without them.
This might be a dumb question, but who writes them? Islamic Scholars?
Originally posted by Raven
This might be a dumb question, but who writes them? Islamic Scholars? Hadith is collected by scholars.
Imam Bukhari, Imam Muslim and Imam Tirmidhi are all famous scholars who collected Hadith.
Sorry to be a pain in the bum, but who wrote the Hadiths? You mentioned they were collected by the Scholars, but does that mean they wrote them?
I'm having trouble seeing how Scholars words are automatically followed without question. Educated people are no better than me (I'm almost done with my Master's degree, so I'm quite educated myself), and I would definitely question it if a person told me what I should believe.
I don't mean this to be offensive. It's just my personal opinion, and I'm trying to see if I'm off-base or not.
Thx
Originally posted by Raven
Sorry to be a pain in the bum, but who wrote the Hadiths? You mentioned they were collected by the Scholars, but does that mean they wrote them? The scholars went around collecting Hadith. They then, of course, wrote them down!
I'm having trouble seeing how Scholars words are automatically followed without question. Educated people are no better than me (I'm almost done with my Master's degree, so I'm quite educated myself), and I would definitely question it if a person told me what I should believe. The scholars were pious people who trustworthiness would have been already established. And anyway, there's no room for foul play as a Hadith that is not in line with the teachings of the Qur'an will clearly be wrong.
And yes, it is offensive to question the authority of scholars like Imam Bukhari. You might as well question the authority of the Prophet while you're at it!
MalcomBanned4?
28-05-02, 08:02 PM
FIST LENGTH BEARD or let the beard "flow" If one is right then the other must be wrong.For men that can't grow a beard: God doesn't want them to be Muslim? Why did God make them unable to grow one?
Perhaps that's why I'm not a very religious person. Technically I'm Catholic, but I question some of the things within the Church. I'm not questioning Islam any differently than I'm questioning my own religion.
[Again just an opinion, no offense intended]
If a religion or person can't withstand a bit of scrutiny, how strong is it? This is a general thing that I apply to many things, including religions.
In my personal experiences, I make better decisions when I think about my problem and scrutinize possible solutions. This works out much better for me than just going with what I originally think is correct.
Cheers
Islam can withstand all the scrutiny you throw at it. I was just warning you that it is offensive to question the authority of scholars - as you know, there are some people here who will not be very understanding of the reasons behind your questioning.
If you have any further questions, I recommend that you visit your nearest mosque and ask the Imam. The Imam would be able to answer your questions much better than any of us here.
Originally posted by MalcomBanned4?
If one is right then the other must be wrong.For men that can't grow a beard: God doesn't want them to be Muslim? Why did God make them unable to grow one? Oh, don't be silly! Who do you always try your best to provoke us?
Originally posted by baba
Islam can withstand all the scrutiny you throw at it. I was just warning you that it is offensive to question the authority of scholars - as you know, there are some people here who will not be very understanding of the reasons behind your questioning.
If you have any further questions, I recommend that you visit your nearest mosque and ask the Imam. The Imam would be able to answer your questions much better than any of us here.
Maybe I'll do that some time. I'm not thinking about converting or anything, but it might be a better forum for these types of questions.
Again, no disrespect intended. Just some honest questions. Thanks for the answers :)
Originally posted by Raven
I'm not thinking about converting or anything Yeah, that's what they all say. :D
EVILution
29-05-02, 11:16 AM
MashaAllah bro baba, nice answers, lol I think I should respect you more from now on, lol it's true you shouldn't judge a person from his appearance (your picture):D
Originally posted by baba
Yeah, that's what they all say. :D
Honestly, I'm not thinking about converting. And even if I was considering it, I must say that what I've seen from some members on this forum would definitely make me not want to convert. The desire to kill all Jews, the desire to kill all Hindus, the acceptance of the killing of American civilians, the acceptance of murder against non-Muslims, etc. is quite common. I've learned a lot of good from some of the Muslims on the board, but I've also learned that some are quite hateful. Just like real life--you have some good Jews, some bad; some good Muslims, some bad; some good tall people, some bad.
Too many people justifying violence & hatred all in the name of religion. It's sad.
EVILution
29-05-02, 05:53 PM
Raven never follow the one who is a follower himself, but follow the example. And the best example in Islam is the Quran and the Hadith. You will notice how peaceful they are compared to the muslims here, we are only human beings striving for the best, we can make mistakes like you can.
Muslim Youth,
It's a little hard to take your message seriously considering your hero [let me know if that's an incorrect assumption about how you feel about OBL] wants to see me dead just because I'm an American.
Machiavelli
29-05-02, 06:03 PM
you keep hearing this idea that you should recognize the seperation of ideology from its followers. if there is a seperation between the two, then the followers arent followers!! period. And really, how better to judge an ideology than looking at the affects of that ideology?
EVILution
29-05-02, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Raven
Muslim Youth,
It's a little hard to take your message seriously considering your hero [let me know if that's an incorrect assumption about how you feel about OBL] wants to see me dead just because I'm an American.
You don't follow my example or my "heroes", if indeed you do see light at the end of the dark tunnel!
Huh?
If Osama is your hero, just keep in mind that he's made repeated fatwas about killing Americans without regard to whether or not they're military personnel. Do you support that? Do you think that all Americans should be slaughtered?
EVILution
29-05-02, 06:21 PM
You should not worry about me, I just want to help you if you really want to know the true Islam. I can have a total argument regarding OBL, but I don't want to do that!
Muslim Youth,
You've done everything but answer the question. If a Muslim wanted to kill all Americans, would you support that Muslim? Everytime an American dies, does that make you happy?
Originally posted by muslim youth
MashaAllah bro baba, nice answers, lol I think I should respect you more from now on, lol it's true you shouldn't judge a person from his appearance (your picture):D Hehe, you should see my website (http://www.catbaba.com) then....
Ruqayyah
29-05-02, 10:56 PM
BACK 2 THE SUBJECT.........THE BEARD.
My husband has a beard. I love it because, apart from it being so soft and teddybear like(?), he is keeping following the sunnat of our beloved Prophet.
since converting, I have always worn a scarf. My husband felt too embarassed to keep a beard because of what others might think.
He knew this was wrong, and sometimes grew it, but would then cut it off again.
After September 11th, he grew it. He initially wanted to quash the myth thet all that look like Muslims are terrorists. He wanted to set an example to non muslims. He often gets called Osama when driving ppl around in his cab, but ppl ask him questions too,. Because he looks like a muslim. And ppl are often suprised at his perfect English, his intellect, his calm manner and generosity.
Non muslims often think that Islam requires women to be modest and not men. This is because men walk around looking like Gees and rude boys. Astughfirullah. Men should actually wear loose clothes and grow a beard. Not only is this their modest dress, it would also deter them from going to haram places. They would not fit in.
Since my husband has grown his beard, and started to wear the sunnat, every day I look at him and feel so much love. He is pleasing Allah, and that makes me so proud. I used to feel embarrased when we went out, because we looked odd. Ppl assumed he had forced me to cover up, whilst he 'posed' in his tight jeans and body tops, with his styled beard. The reality was I was nagging him to dress like a muslim, while he wanted me to look 'good'. I would get so upset when girls eyed him up in front of me. I started to wear fitted clothes myself. Astughfirullah.
Now we look like a pair, and we are pleasing Allah and each other.
Salams
lool nice site..
u look nothing like how i saw u few months ago :D
ws
sajid
Originally posted by baba
Hehe, you should see my website (http://www.catbaba.com) then....
Khawlah
30-05-02, 10:21 AM
Raven,
OBL has NO right to tell muslims to kill all Americans. The muslims who follow such commands obviously do not have the ability to think for themselves or to understand the quran. IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE TO KILL INNOCENT CIVILIANS and anyone who thinks it is has a hell of a lot to learn about islam.
A lot of the people who follow/agree with him don't even understand Arabic, they've never even been to talks by him let alone fully comprehend the language he is speaking.
Raven, hatred and mindless killing is NOT a part of islam.
As for ahadith, these are authentic sayings of the Prophet that have been recorded. We can learn a lot from them. If you want to read some for yourself, go to: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/
Outcider
30-05-02, 10:37 AM
Interesting observations about the beard! But what about hair in armpits? Does Raafi or someone equally knowledgeable have the rules for them?
EVILution
30-05-02, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by baba
Hehe, you should see my website (http://www.catbaba.com) then....
MashaAllah bro, may I give you some advice, that you get married as soon as possible, but hey atleast you do go to the freedom marches even if it is for your ahem, sister:D :p :p :D
Khawlah,
"Raven, hatred and mindless killing is NOT a part of islam. "
I agree with you there. The only point that I was talking about was the behavior of some Muslims, not Islam itself. There's a big difference in my book. You have some good people, some bad. Just like in every other religion, race, gender, etc.
I'm so busy between work & school right now:( . I'll try to save that website and do a little curiousity reading when I have time.
Regards
Originally posted by muslim youth
MashaAllah bro, may I give you some advice, that you get married as soon as possible I was thinking the very same thing myself! ;)
but hey atleast you do go to the freedom marches even if it is for your ahem, sister:D :p :p :D The flag cost £10, which was pretty much all the money I had in my pocket at the time, and although the sales proceeds went to charity that wasn't the only reason for me buying it... ;)
But hey, I've got a flag now, so I don't have a reason to buy one again! Well, unless, I accidentally leave my flag at home....
Astaughfirallah! What am I saying??? :eek:
Originally posted by Outsider
Interesting observations about the beard! But what about hair in armpits? Does Raafi or someone equally knowledgeable have the rules for them?
Pubic hair should be cut(armpits included). As for the hair, well dunno but I haven't had a hair cut in two years!
AbuMubarak
30-05-02, 06:29 PM
boy how this thread has changed since i have been here last
hadiths are not written by scholars, hadiths are statements by the prophets companions who saw everything he did and related what he did to those around him, thus, when you hear a hadith, its as if you were there with the prophet
so if you disobey the hadiths now,that means you would not have followed the prophet in his lifetime
scholars are those who study the hadiths and render decisions based upon the quran and hadith, the more the scholar can provide proofs from the quran and sunnah, the better the scholar
if he is just educated, but renders opinions against quran and sunnah, he is not to be followed
Allahu Musta-an
Usamah bin Laden is one who has struggled against the oppression of muslims, to this day i cant say whether he had any part in this, however, i have a muslim who denied any involvement vs a kafir who accuses, the choice is clear to me, and whether he did it or not, nothing justifies americans wholesale bombing of an entire country
Raven, you should accept islam immediately, so that when death comes (and that could be today) you will have at least witnessed to your Lord that you recognize His Oneness, as opposed to other religions who dont, and you cant make up your own way of life since Allah has left us the Quran as our guidance
Raafi,
I'm going to thank you for the invitation, but I don't feel that Islam is right for me. I would have to describe myself as agnostic, and I don't think that will ever change. I still want to learn about various religions of the world, and who knows....maybe I'll pick one that I think is best for me.
Regards
AbuMubarak
30-05-02, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Raven
Raafi,
I'm going to thank you for the invitation, but I don't feel that Islam is right for me. I would have to describe myself as agnostic, and I don't think that will ever change. I still want to learn about various religions of the world, and who knows....maybe I'll pick one that I think is best for me.
Regards
read the story of noah's son in the quran
he too, denied what was presented to him and thought he could do his own thing
I've heard that story through my Catholic background. I actually went to Sunday school & stuff as a child. In my more recent years, I just thought a lot of it didn't make sense.
Not a bad example to think about, but people need to follow what's in their heart, imho.
Cheers
Outcider
30-05-02, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Sultan
Pubic hair should be cut(armpits included). As for the hair, well dunno but I haven't had a hair cut in two years!
Sultan, thanks for the answer. Are you even luckier than I am, in other words you're are so bald that you don't even need a barber? I am only partly bald, but I can comfort myself by the fact that I need less shampoo.
Seriously speaking, it's quite strange why such regulations were given in the Quran. One would think that all parts growing hair are equal. On the other hand, I just learned that Allah treated eyesight differently from the other senses.
Originally posted by Outsider
Seriously speaking, it's quite strange why such regulations were given in the Quran. LOL, your knowledge of Islam is hopeless! Such regulations are not given in the Qur'an, they are in Hadith.
And for the third time, can you read the Qur'an please???
Outcider
31-05-02, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by baba
LOL, your knowledge of Islam is hopeless! Such regulations are not given in the Qur'an, they are in Hadith.
And for the third time, can you read the Qur'an please???
Baba, yes I have a Qur'an at home, the one compiled by Dr. M. M. Khan and Dr. M. T. Al-Hilali.
It's an interesting book explaining how people lived hundreds of years ago. Of course, to a non-Muslim it looks quite meaningless and very heavy to read. (No offence!)
I also have a few Bibles, I had the Mormons' book, I've had some Indian book... I don't even remember the religion.
Have you got any comparative books, apart from the Quran? What do you think of other beliefs?
Ruqayyah
31-05-02, 01:51 PM
Outsider, dont think you're asking me, but never mind!
Did you read my post on'why are ht s hated so much'. I went of fthe topic as usual, lol, and explained why I converted and my personal view of other religions. My dad was brought up as a Mormon, but was not happy and switched to the Church of England. He took me to church, and by the time I was a teenager we agreed that we didnt understand much of the Christian religion. Its funny, but even then he would tell me that he couldnt understand why we would need to bypass 'others', to get to God. He particularly disputed the Roman Catholic concept of asking or even paying a priest to forgive your sins.
I had a the childrens version of the Book of Mormon as a small child, I loved to read, but also loved the pictures. Jesus(pbuh), was my favourite character. I read over and over again the story of him being tempted by the devil to jump of the mountain, to see if he would fly. To me Jesus(pbuh) was a kind man, a human who the devil tested. But i couldnt understand why God couldnt just destroy the devil. Also Joseph Smith the Mormon Prophet, didnt match up to Jesus(pbuh) my hero.
When dad decided he want to try Christianity, I remember feeling excited about going to Sunday school, and learning more about Jesus. But when they spoke of him being the son of God and 'God' on earth, I didnt really understand. Why didnt God help his son. And how could my hero, who was a human like me, have created all I saw around me. Maybe my thoughts were slightly more childish, but thats how I remember feeling.
When I first read about Islam, I was 16, and I felt something immediately. Islam confirmed all the stories I read about God's messengers, as a child, except there were no holes in these stories And Jesus, to my delight, was human. I read how the Shaitaan was created by God, and was once so good he was allowed to pray alongside the angels. But when he was asked to bow to Adam, and he didnt out of pride, God gave him the chance to repent by offering him one wish. Instead of choosing to be forgiven, he chose to live to the Day of Judgement, and swore to take the majority of mankind to hell with him. God (Allah) gave us the free will to choose, and told Shaitaan that those who were true believers would never follow him.
This to me was a clear explanation to many of my questions. And Jesus was a believer, a messenger from Allah. And Muhammad,(pbuh) the kindest of men completed that message. As a child I dressed as Jesus's mother Mary many times, in a blue shawl. So wearing a scarf seemed so good and righteous. I was the only one at college to do so.
I love Islam. It has has explanations for all aspects of life. And if you do not know the answer to a question yourself, there is alays someone who does. Simple answers for sometimes complex questions. Ive been a Muslim(one who surrenders to Allah), for the 8 most happy and content years of my life, despite the hardships ive faced.
Back to the SUBJECT AT HAND. have you noticed in illustrations that run alongside Christian scriptures, All the Prophets, and Pious men had BEARDS?
Your little sister in humanity, Rukaya
If I posted my replies as seperate threads, maybe that would be better. COULD THE ADMIN HELP WITH SOME OF THEM???!!!!!!JAzakullah LOL
Outsider, try reading Muhammad marmaduke PIckthalls translation of th Quraan, or Yusuf Ali's Theyre much simpler. I think yours may be a critics Translation.
Outcider
31-05-02, 02:18 PM
Rukaya, a long story, but interesting experiences!
I think you have been inundated with religion in your childhood! Having lived in England, I know that there are fewer churches than they have in the United States. I once lived in Hinsdale, a village of some 17.000 people, just west of Chicago and there were 10-15 churches, one for every denomination. I just checked the net and now there are about 20 churches...
Although I've lived in a Christian home and, a bit like you, admired photographs in a huge pictorial Bible printed in the 20s, I've wanted to know something about other religions, too. Just like I'm doing now. And there are so many religions left...
I'm glad that you've found one that suits you now. Never stop excluding other religions though. All combined might make an ideal one!
Machiavelli
31-05-02, 02:34 PM
dang Outsider, I grew up in a town of 3000 and we had over 20 churches!! we were actually in the book of records for most churches per capita. just in case you ask why so many, its a town made up of immigrants. many many many faiths all living and working together.
AbuMubarak
12-07-02, 12:15 PM
Shaving The Beard: A Modern Effeminacy
Abu`Abdillah Muhammad al-Jibaly, Al-Quran Was-Sunnah Society
The beard (Arabic: liyah) is defined as the hair which grows on the cheeks and the jaws (ex., review: al-Q m s al-Muh t by al-Fayrazabad ). It includes the hair of the temples, the growth underneath the lower lip, the hair of the chin, and the hair that grows on the lower side of the jaws.
The Islamic Ruling Concerning Beards
Growing the beard is a wajib (mandatory) for all males who are capable of doing so. This has ample evidence in the Sunnah (as will be shown below) and is the unanimous opinion of the ulamaa of Islam. One should not be misled by the neglect to this sunnah by a few contemporary shaykhs, and by their providing shaky fatwas to support their action. By doing that they make people follow them into the wrong way, when the Messenger (S) said: He who starts a good sunnah (way) will be rewarded for it, in addition to receiving rewards equal to the rewards of those who follow him into it. Whereas he who starts a bad sunnah will be burdened with it, in addition to receiving burdens equal to the burdens of those who follow him into it. [Muslim]
And he said: Allah does not pull the knowledge abruptly from the hearts of people, but he takes away the knowledge by taking [the lives of] the `ulamaa (true scholars). When no `ulamaa are left, people will take ignorant persons for leaders. Those will give them fatwa (religious verdicts) without knowledge. By doing this, they will stray and lead others astray as well. [Al-Bukhari]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A List of Violations
Shaving the beard results in a series of Islamic violations, as is obvious from Allah's Book and His Messenger's Sunnah. The following is a list (not necessarily comprehensive) of such violations:
a. A Disobedience to Allah (T)
Shaving the beard is a disobedience to Allah (T). The ruler of Yemen, appointed by the Persian emperor Kisraa, sent two envoys to the Messenger (S) to summon him. When they came into his presence, he noticed that they had shaved their beards and grew their moustaches. He hated to look at them (because of their odd appearance) and he said: Woe be to you, who told you to do so? They replied: "Our lord! (referring to Kisraa.)" The Messenger (S) then said:
But my Lord, may He be exalted and glorified, has commanded me to leave alone my beard and to trim my moustache. [Recorded by Ibn Jar r a-abar , and judged to be Hasan (good) by al-Albani.]
b. A Disobedience To the Messenger (S)
Shaving the beard is a disobedience to the Messenger (S). In many hadiths, the Messenger (S) commanded men to leave alone their beards. These different hadiths have a similar meaning:
Trim the moustache and save the beard. [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]
Obeying the Messenger (S) in that is equivalent to obeying Allah (T) who said (what means):
He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah. [An-Nisaa 4:80]
c. A Deviation from the Appearance and Guidance of the Messenger (S)
Shaving the beard is a deviation from the appearance and guidance of the Messenger (S). The Messenger (S) used to have a large beard [Muslim]. One should strive to imitate him (S) in his practices, as Allah (T) said (what means):In the Messenger of Allah is a good example for you to follow. [Al-Ahzab 33:21]
And the Messenger (S) said: Verily, the best guidance is Muhammad's guidance. [Muslim]
d. A Deviation from the Way of Believers
Shaving the beard is a deviation from the way of believers. All the prophets (S), the sahbah (Prophet's companions), the great `ulamaa, and the righteous early Muslims of this Ummah (Nation) grew their beards. There is no report of a single one of them ever shaving his beard. Thus, this is their way, and Allah (T) says (in the meaning):
Whoever disobeys the Messenger after guidance has been clarified to him, and follows other than the path of the believers, We shall give to him what he deserves and broil him in hell, which is the worst abode. [An-Nisaa 4:115]
e. An Imitation of the Disbelievers
Shaving the beard is an imitation of the disbelievers. This has been emphasized in several hadiths of the Prophet (S). For example:
Cut the moustaches and grow your beards. Be different from the Magians (followers of a religion that dominated in Persia). [Muslim]
Cut your moustaches and leave your beards alone. Be different from the people of the scripture. [Muslim]
Be different from the Mushrikin (those who worship other than Allah (T)); trim your moustaches and save your beards. [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]
We have been commanded to be different and distinct from the disbelievers, as in surat ul-Fatihah. Also, Allah (T) said (what means):
Follow not the whims of those who have no knowledge (of Islam). [Al-Jathiyah 45:18]
And His Messenger (S) said: Whoever imitates a people is but one of them. [Recorded by Abu Dawud, and judged to be authentic by al-Albani]
f. Changing Allah's Creation without Permission
The Messenger (S) declared that the women who change what Allah (T) has created (such as removing the hair from their faces or filing their teeth or tattooing their bodies) seeking by that to improve their appearance, are accursed by Allah (T). [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]
The hadith mentioned women in particular because they normally seek to beautify themselves more than men. But the warning surely applies to both sexes, because the condition for the curse is declared, and thus the curse applies to anyone who satisfies such condition.
Shaving the beard falls under this warning, as it is much worse than the Nam (removal of facial hair) practiced by some women. It involves obeying Satan who said:
And I shall tempt them until they change what Allah has created. [An-Nisaa 4:119]
g. An Imitation of Women
The beard is a major distinction between men and women. Shaving it removes this distinction, and is thus a means of imitating women. The Messenger (S) said:
Allah curses those men who imitate the women, and He curses those women who imitate the men. [Al-Bukhari]
h. Shaving the Beard Contradicts the Pure Fitrah (Nature)
Allah's Messenger (S) mentioned ten qualities as indicative of a good, clean nature [Muslim]. Two of these qualities are to trim the moustaches and to grow the beard.
The Messenger (S) also tells that every child is born with a clean, pure fitrah, which later may get deformed by the influence of the environment and the up-bringing. [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].
In the footsteps of the disbelievers, many Muslims' fitrah is now, unfortunately, so much deformed that they seem to find a clean-shaven man more handsome and masculine than one with a beard - exactly the opposite of what the Messenger (S) declared in the above hadith.
This fitrah never changes with time: Allah (T) said (what means):
The pure nature according to which Allah has created people. There is no change in Allah's creation. [Ar-Room 30:30]
For shaving their beards, some men give the strange excuse that their wives prefer them without one! As if their purpose in this life is to follow the deformed inclinations of their wives instead of the clear-cut commands of Allah (T) and His Messenger (S)!
Others claim that growing their beards results in an irritability and scratching. This cannot result from abiding by the pure fitrah, but would result (if true) from neglect of the proper cleaning and washing with wudu as instructed in the Sunnah.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What the `Ulamaa and Imams Say
All the `ulamaa of as-Salaf u- li, including the Four Imams, agreed that shaving the beard is haram (prohibited). They considered shaving it an impermissible mutilation, as has been reported about Umar bin Abdil-Aziz. They used to consider the person who shaved his beard effeminate. Many of them would not accept his witness or allow him to lead the prayers.
May Allah (T) guide us to abide by His Deen, and to adhere to His Messenger's Sunnah, and to be among those whom he blessed in both lives.
__________________
Consider
02-08-02, 12:47 PM
Got this from another forum:
By Allah_Knows (Allah_Knows) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 08:47 am: Edit
salam
I was talking to a brother and he related an incident to me, which subhannallah was inspiring. It is proof that however hard the kuffar try to humiliate the mujahideen and the jihad, they will only create the opposite effect. And that the mujahideen's effort NEVER goes to waste.
It was one morning that the brother was getting ready for work as per routine. He was listening to the radio, whilst he was in the washroom - shaving. The radio broadcaster was discussing the issue of the brothers in camp X-ray. It was said that another few 100 have been transferred to Cuba from Afghanistan. It then went on to say how their heads and BEARDS had been shaved...... At this point the brother stopped shaving and thought......(quite rare for Muslims today) Look how the kuffar try and humiliate the Muslims, how they shave their heads and beards, and look at me! I am humiliating myself, they don’t even need to do anything. alhumdulillah since that day the brother has grown a beard and gone to work everyday. And what’s more he has increased in his love for Islam
The moral of the story is, don’t humiliate yourself by abandoning the Sunnah. AND see how the difficulty and the struggle of the mujahideen benefits the Ummah. Allah will surely not waste the rewards of the believers. May Allah swt allow us to walk this path and be firm.
salam
Qurratulain
02-08-02, 01:53 PM
Subhanallah very true indeed
wasalaam
I believe that the reason the heads and beards were shaved was to control lice - a health issue, not to humiliate them.
kaphirgoyim
02-08-02, 06:22 PM
>>I believe that the reason the heads and beards were shaved was to control lice - a health issue, not to humiliate them.<<
Would you thank them for shaving your head? hehe.... I think not. My belief is that, even for those whose facial hair is not sacred, that the experience would be humiliating nonetheless. So, even though it was done for health reasons, the effects are the same.
:)
Mashallah what a wonderful story.
Camp x-ray
They just keep X-posing themselves.
JUSTICE III
02-08-02, 07:16 PM
Tov i hate to say it but im sure it was to humiliate them,,,,its at tactic used to take the fight out of them mentley,,but in saying this will someone help me by posting some quranic verses on facial hair,,,,,and i know this is going to make me sound like a flakey american,,,,but i dont get it,,,,the middle east has some of the hottest climate in the world,,,,you would think that that kind of heat would reallllllyyyyyy suck to have a beard,,,,i just thought something as trivial as a beard God would allow each thier own preference,,,,,i know i know,,,,im getting blasted for this,,,im not nessecarly saying i think its wrong,,,,i just dont quite understand what facial hair has to do with living ones life with high morals,or even living it religously,,,,,jesus had a beard,,,and HE IS MY LORD AND SAVIOR,but i dont see any bible verses that say anything about beards,,,,,,
AbuMubarak
02-08-02, 07:48 PM
you didnt get the whole story justice
read quran, then you will have the complete picture
and another thing
there is nothing trivial in islam
not washing when you go to the bathroom, not eating with your right hand, not blowing your nose with the left, not saying bismillah before you eat, nothing in islam is trivial
the prophet was not a trivial man, Allah is not a trivial Lord, Islam is not trivial
if its mentioned, its not trivial
its the things that are not mentioned, thats what is trivial
JUSTICE III
02-08-02, 07:56 PM
Hehehe,,,raafi,,,,you are absolutly right bro i knew trivial was the wrong word to use,,,adn you point is well taken,,,if god doesnt find somethng trivial then we shouldnt,,,,and yes i get the whole point of the story,,,i might look a bit like forest gump,but im no stupie,,,lol,,,,but,,,,i still dont get it any more than when i first posted,,,,,why in the world would God care which hand you eat with and which hand you blow your nose?!?!?! and certainly why woudld he care if you have a beard,,,,i gues what im getting at is if someone lived the whole live very islamic prayed 5 times,,,kind,loveing person,,,you know very moraly,,,,would these things keep one from heaven in the islamic religon?
that's the problem with the muslims today (myself included), we take the sunnah as a trivial matter. the sunnah is there to benefit us and it's also a means of physical dawah... there are many stories whereby non-muslims have reverted to islam on seeing muslims perform these "trivial" acts of sunnah. sunnah it there so we stay steadfast upon the fardh (compulsory) acts. once a persons sunnah becomes weak, gradually the fardh will become weak. (may Allah protect us --ameen)
btw --according to some scholars the beard is wajib, others say it's fardh
JUSTICE III
02-08-02, 08:05 PM
ouch!!!!lol,,,,yes i know!!!trivial was definatly the wrong word to use,,,excpecially since its already stated in your religion as not being trivial,,,,im sorry,,,,,i apologize,,,,but lets get past that,,,,can some one post some verses on the beard in islamic culture,,,,prefrebly from the quran,,,wouldnt mind seeing what it says about eating with the right hand and blowing your nose wit the left to,,,,im just curious,,,,maybe it say why you should do these things as well?
There is nothing in Koran about beard or eating in right hand. Just Muslims are trying to do the same as the prophet of Islam did.
Originally posted by JUSTICE III
ouch!!!!lol,,,,yes i know!!!trivial was definatly the wrong word to use,,,excpecially since its already stated in your religion as not being trivial,,,,im sorry,,,,,i apologize,,,,but lets get past that,,,,can some one post some verses on the beard in islamic culture,,,,prefrebly from the quran,,,wouldnt mind seeing what it says about eating with the right hand and blowing your nose wit the left to,,,,im just curious,,,,maybe it say why you should do these things as well?
Originally posted by JUSTICE III
ouch!!!!lol,,,,yes i know!!!trivial was definatly the wrong word to use,,,excpecially since its already stated in your religion as not being trivial,,,,im sorry,,,,,i apologize,,,,but lets get past that,,,,can some one post some verses on the beard in islamic culture,,,,prefrebly from the quran,,,wouldnt mind seeing what it says about eating with the right hand and blowing your nose wit the left to,,,,im just curious,,,,maybe it say why you should do these things as well?
sorry... didn't mean to jump down your throat or anything
I personally don't agree with shaving the guys. If they want to wear a beard for religious reasons, the US shouldn't have shaved them. If that means the prisoners have a lice problem, so be it. It's the prisoners' choice.
Bilal,
You make an interesting point there. If Muhammad (pbuh) would have preferred to sleep on his stomach, does that mean that sleeping on one's stomach is the moral obligation of everyone that follows him? You may say he is a prophet, but do you also agree he was a man. I'm guessing he liked certain things more than others. But, does that mean the things he didn't like are wrong? (not talking about stuff he said, just stuff about his normal, everyday life)
Of course he is man, prophet was sleeping on his right side ………
I mean , for muslims it is good to do that but it is not from the basic of the religion, which means it is not problem if you did not do that .
Originally posted by Raven
I personally don't agree with shaving the guys. If they want to wear a beard for religious reasons, the US shouldn't have shaved them. If that means the prisoners have a lice problem, so be it. It's the prisoners' choice.
Bilal,
You make an interesting point there. If Muhammad (pbuh) would have preferred to sleep on his stomach, does that mean that sleeping on one's stomach is the moral obligation of everyone that follows him? You may say he is a prophet, but do you also agree he was a man. I'm guessing he liked certain things more than others. But, does that mean the things he didn't like are wrong? (not talking about stuff he said, just stuff about his normal, everyday life)
Sorry about getting the sleeping position wrong.
How or why did all of that kind of stuff get documented? If he was left-handed or right-handed, would that make a difference to Islam???
as muslims, we believe the lifestyle of the Prophet [pbuh] is example of how muslims should live their lives. there is wisdom and benefits (physically and spiritually) in which the Prophet [pbuh] lived his life. it is not something that will harm us.
btw --the prophet [pbuh] slept on his right side
Gibreel
02-08-02, 08:24 PM
And how do you know to pray 5 times per day? Because it is instructed in the Sunnah. Same for beard.
(1) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said "I have no connection iwth one who shaves, shouts and tears his clothing eg. in grief or affication."
- Reported by Abu Darda (R.A.) in Muslim, Hadith no. 501
(2) The teachings of Hadhrat Ammar Bin Yaasir, Abdullah Ibn Umar, Sayyidina Umar, Abu Hurairah and Jaabir (R.A.), indicate that ALL used to keep beards that were one fist length or more. Hadhrat Jaabir (R.A.) had said: "We used to grow long beards and only during Hajj and Umrah did we trim them to the required length (i.e. fist length)."
(3) Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (R.A.) relates that: "He who imitates the kuffar (non-believers) and dies in that state, he will be raised up with them on the Day of Qiyamat (Judgement)."
(4) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) says: "Trim closely the moustache, and let the beard flow (Grow)."
- Narrated Ibn Umar (R.A.) in Muslim, Hadith no. 498
(5) "Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) ordered us to trim the moustache closely and spare the beard" says Ibn Umar.
- Muslim, Hadith no. 449
(6) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)said: "Act against contrary to the polythesists, trim closely the moustache and grow the beard."
- Reported by Ibn Umar (R.A.) in Muslim, Hadith no. 500
(7) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said "Trim closely the moustache and grow the beard."
- Reported by Abu Hurairah (R.A.) in Muslim, Hadith no. 501
(8) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "Anyone who shaves has no claim to the mercy of Allah"
- Reported by Ibn Abbas (R.A.) in Tibrabi
(9) Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (R.A.) used to cut that portion (which exceeds the grip of the hand) of the beard.
- Tirmidhi
Edit: oops, my reply went to a wrong person.
Raven,
Please I said it is not sin if Muslims did not do that. In fact most of Muslims do not practice it. However, sleeping on right side for men and on the stomach for women is appreciated medically.
In other story, the prophet advised the people not to fertilize the flowers of the palm trees manually. This advice did not get good results, so he said: this is your life and you free to do what you think is suitable……….
Prophet of Islam is the most character in human history that documented everything about him.
Originally posted by Raven
Sorry about getting the sleeping position wrong.
How or why did all of that kind of stuff get documented? If he was left-handed or right-handed, would that make a difference to Islam???
If you notice, Orthodox Jews wear a beard as well. There is something in the Torah that says that a man should not take a blade to his face. Probably more specific, but that's what I know. One explanation was that pagans used to scar themselves and this practice is forbidden - I'm confused here but I do know that there is halacha on that. Since there seem to be many laws in common - this may be one of them - or as Bilal says just custom.
Shaloom
02-08-02, 09:19 PM
Most Eastern Christians priests also wear beards.................
I think for the clarification reason, it is part of the religion. As Bilal inicated, it is not mandatory to not wear it. So you see many of us Moslems do not wear it. Many school of thoughts view it as a favourable trait and recomended, but it is not a major sin to not wear it.........
Gibreel
02-08-02, 09:28 PM
Shaving the beard involves altering the creation of Allah, which is forbidden as stated in the Qur'an: "Allah cursed him. And he (Shaytaan) said: 'I will take an appointed portion of your slaves. Verily, I will mislead them, and surely I will arouse in them false desires; and certainly I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and indeed I will order them to change the nature created by Allah.' And whoever takes Shaytaan as a Wali (protector or helper) instead of Allah, has surely suffered a manifest loss" [4: 118-119]. Sheikh Al-Albany said regarding this verse that it is "a clear statement that changing Allah's creation without His permission is obeying Shaytaan, and that there is no doubt that shaving the beard for beauty reasons comes under the rule of this verse" [Adabul-Zafaf, PP 119-120]. There are also numerous verses which command Muslims to follow the tradition of the Prophet (s.a.w) as Allah (s.w.t) says: "And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)" [59: 7].
Shaving the beard involves disobeying the order of the Prophet (s.a.w) who commanded us to grow our beards, as he (s.a.w) said "contradict the non-believers, grow the beards and cut the moustaches" [Bukhari and Muslim]. Ibn Jarir have also narrated to the story of the two messengers of Kisra (the Persian king) to the Prophet, who entered to where the Prophet (s.a.w) was, and they had shaved their beards and grown their moustaches, the Prophet (s.a.w) hated to even look at them and told them: "Woe to you! Who ordered you to do that?" They replied: "Our lord (i.e. Kisra) ordered us". The Prophet then said: "But my Lord ordered me to grow my beard and clip my moustache". Here we see that the Prophet (s.a.w) hated to even look at the unbelievers, so how would his reaction be had he seen those who claim to be his loyal followers imitating the unbelievers and shaving their beards? Also, it is important to note that the Prophet (s.a.w) attributed the order of growing the beard and clipping the moustache to Allah (s.w.t), so it becomes an order from Allah (s.w.t) to the believers, which makes it mandatory on the believers to follow, and forbidden to disobey.
Shaving the beard is a way of imitating the disbelievers, as mentioned at the beginning of the article, and the Prophet of Allah has commanded us in numerous hadiths to contradict the people of the book (Jews and Christians) and to contradict the pagans and Magus. So since shaving the beard is a tradition practiced by non-Muslims, it makes it mandatory for the Muslims to contradict them by growing it.
The imitation of women, and there is no doubt that shaving the beard is an imitation of women, and Imam Ibn Hajar Al-Haythamy n his book "Az-Zawajir" stated that such imitation is amongst the Major Sins in Islam.
Contradicting the traditions of the Prophets and righteous men. Imam Al-Shanqiti said in his commentary on the verse "He (Harun) said: O son of my mother! Seize (me) not by my beard, nor by my head" [20: 94], that it is a Qur'anic proof that growing the beard is the tradition of the Prophets of Allah.
Finally, shaving the beard is a contradiction of the Fitrah (nature) which was intended for us by Allah, since growing the beard is one of the ten natural instincts as maintained by the Prophet (s.a.w). The fact that Arabs before Islam used to grow their beards can be explained by the fact that they inherited it from the Prophet Ibrahim (a.s).
Thanks for all the info Bilal.
I understood that it's not sin, but I was just wondering if somethings are preferred overs.
Shaving the beard involves disobeying the order of the Prophet (s.a.w) who commanded us to grow our beards, as he (s.a.w) said "contradict the non-believers, grow the beards and cut the moustaches" [Bukhari and Muslim]
Gibreel,
A lot of non-Muslims also grow their beards. Not as many that shave, but quite a number do have beards.
So what does that mean?
Gibreel
02-08-02, 09:42 PM
"What does that mean?" I'm not sure if I understand your question. Most non-Muslims shave or keep their beard short.
Anyway the instruction regarding beard is very clear.
Part of your argument was that Muslims should do as the non-Muslims don't. Since many non-Muslims grow a beard, that kind of invalidates that argument (imho).
Gibreel
02-08-02, 10:00 PM
Even if it would suddenly become en vogue for the the kufr to have long beards, so what?
Go outside and look around. How many non-Muslim men do you see with long beards?
You're asking a biker. I don't wear a beard, but a lot of us bikers do.
Gibreel
02-08-02, 10:09 PM
What's your point?
Magicman
02-08-02, 10:13 PM
It then went on to say how their heads and BEARDS had been shaved...... At this point the brother stopped shaving and thought......(quite rare for Muslims today) Look how the kuffar try and humiliate the Muslims, how they shave their heads and beards, and look at me!
Humiliating them? Heres a quick question. Do you think that anyone, Muslim or not, is allowed to have long hair and a long beard in a maximum security prison? Short answer: no. If they consider it humilation, then thats too bad for them. If my religion commanded I wear a 100ft scarf at all times and when going to prison they took it off me, would they be following the rules or trying to humiliate me? Guess.
No doubt someone thinks that regulations on hair were put in place just to try and insult Muslims. Less paranoia please.
Originally posted by Gibreel
What's your point?
The biker thing was just 4 fun. Have you ever hung out with Harley guys?
Also, doing something JUST because somebody else does the opposite is never a good thing. It's also true to say doing something JUST because somebody else does it isn't a good thing either (emphasis on the word just there).
Didn't you ever hear the line "If Millhouse jumps off a bridge, does that mean you will?"
AbuMubarak
02-08-02, 10:46 PM
its a shame when you post something for muslims to learn their deen from and they refuse to even look at it,
but then again, they will turn around and speak of deen, without knowledge, and say this and that is not fard, wajib, or whatever
muslims!!!!! this deen is a mercy to you, do not deny the mercy of Allah upon you
He has sent His Messenger with the deen of truth, with a book, with hadiths, with scholars, stop acting like those who came before who had the book, they didnt read the book, they became like donkeys with books on their backs
MalcomBanned4?
03-08-02, 03:18 PM
usless chatter
M.H.Mubarak
05-08-02, 10:45 PM
refers to the sun worshipers, whose custom it was to shave the beard. (Among the the Human races, there are two, the yellow and the red, who very rarely bear facial hair.)
However, the concept is rather universal - If you imitate a people who are contrary to wholesome worship of the One Eternal Creator, you are infact becoming a partner to them.
Peter J. Malloy
09-08-02, 04:26 AM
How can it be medically ok for an expectant mother to sleep on her stomach?
Almost next to impossible to do isn't it.....
P
Gibreel
09-08-02, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by Raven
The biker thing was just 4 fun. Have you ever hung out with Harley guys?
Also, doing something JUST because somebody else does the opposite is never a good thing. It's also true to say doing something JUST because somebody else does it isn't a good thing either (emphasis on the word just there).
Didn't you ever hear the line "If Millhouse jumps off a bridge, does that mean you will?"
Sorry for the late reply, Raven.
I think you misunderstood. Muslims aren't growing beard just because someone else doesn't. They should grow it regardless what the kuffar do.
No, I have never hung out with those Harley Davidson fellows, but I know the type you are referring to.
Abu Yahya
17-04-03, 06:51 PM
SALAAM
This is for all those people who think otherwise about the beard. Read first and then think about it.
Abu Yahya
Shaving The Beard:
A Modern Effeminacy
Abu`Abdillah Muhammad al-Jibaly
Definition
The beard (Arabic: liyah) is defined as the hair which grows on the cheeks and the jaws (ex., review: al-Q m s al-Muh t by al-Fayrazabad ). It includes the hair of the temples, the growth underneath the lower lip, the hair of the chin, and the hair that grows on the lower side of the jaws.
The Islamic Ruling Concerning Beards
Growing the beard is a wajib (mandatory) for all males who are capable of doing so. This has ample evidence in the Sunnah (as will be shown below) and is the unanimous opinion of the ulamaa of Islam. One should not be misled by the neglect to this sunnah by a few contemporary shaykhs, and by their providing shaky fatwas to support their action. By doing that they make people follow them into the wrong way, when the Messenger (S) said:
He who starts a good sunnah (way) will be rewarded for it, in addition to receiving rewards equal to the rewards of those who follow him into it. Whereas he who starts a bad sunnah will be burdened with it, in addition to receiving burdens equal to the burdens of those who follow him into it. [Muslim]
And he said:
Allah does not pull the knowledge abruptly from the hearts of people, but he takes away the knowledge by taking [the lives of] the `ulamaa (true scholars). When no `ulamaa are left, people will take ignorant persons for leaders. Those will give them fatwa (religious verdicts) without knowledge. By doing this, they will stray and lead others astray as well. [Al-Bukhari]
A List of Violations
Shaving the beard results in a series of Islamic violations, as is obvious from Allah's Book and His Messenger's Sunnah. The following is a list (not necessarily comprehensive) of such violations:
a. A Disobedience to Allah (T)
Shaving the beard is a disobedience to Allah (T). The ruler of Yemen, appointed by the Persian emperor Kisraa, sent two envoys to the Messenger (S) to summon him. When they came into his presence, he noticed that they had shaved their beards and grew their moustaches. He hated to look at them (because of their odd appearance) and he said: Woe be to you, who told you to do so? They replied: "Our lord! (referring to Kisraa.)" The Messenger (S) then said:
But my Lord, may He be exalted and glorified, has commanded me to leave alone my beard and to trim my moustache. [Recorded by Ibn Jar r a-abar , and judged to be Hasan (good) by al-Albani.]
b. A Disobedience To the Messenger (S)
Shaving the beard is a disobedience to the Messenger (S). In many hadiths, the Messenger (S) commanded men to leave alone their beards. These different hadiths have a similar meaning:
Trim the moustache and save the beard. [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]
Obeying the Messenger (S) in that is equivalent to obeying Allah (T) who said (what means):
He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah. [An-Nisaa 4:80]
c. A Deviation from the Appearance and Guidance of the Messenger (S)
Shaving the beard is a deviation from the appearance and guidance of the Messenger (S). The Messenger (S) used to have a large beard [Muslim]. One should strive to imitate him (S) in his practices, as Allah (T) said (what means):In the Messenger of Allah is a good example for you to follow. [Al-Ahzab 33:21]
And the Messenger (S) said: Verily, the best guidance is Muhammad's guidance. [Muslim]
d. A Deviation from the Way of Believers
Shaving the beard is a deviation from the way of believers. All the prophets (S), the sahbah (Prophet's companions), the great `ulamaa, and the righteous early Muslims of this Ummah (Nation) grew their beards. There is no report of a single one of them ever shaving his beard. Thus, this is their way, and Allah (T) says (in the meaning):
Whoever disobeys the Messenger after guidance has been clarified to him, and follows other than the path of the believers, We shall give to him what he deserves and broil him in hell, which is the worst abode. [An-Nisaa 4:115]
e. An Imitation of the Disbelievers
Shaving the beard is an imitation of the disbelievers. This has been emphasized in several hadiths of the Prophet (S). For example:
Cut the moustaches and grow your beards. Be different from the Magians (followers of a religion that dominated in Persia). [Muslim]
Cut your moustaches and leave your beards alone. Be different from the people of the scripture. [Muslim]
Be different from the Mushrikin (those who worship other than Allah (T)); trim your moustaches and save your beards. [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]
We have been commanded to be different and distinct from the disbelievers, as in surat ul-Fatihah. Also, Allah (T) said (what means):
Follow not the whims of those who have no knowledge (of Islam). [Al-Jathiyah 45:18]
And His Messenger (S) said: Whoever imitates a people is but one of them. [Recorded by Abu Dawud, and judged to be authentic by al-Albani]
f. Changing Allah's Creation without Permission
The Messenger (S) declared that the women who change what Allah (T) has created (such as removing the hair from their faces or filing their teeth or tattooing their bodies) seeking by that to improve their appearance, are accursed by Allah (T). [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]
The hadith mentioned women in particular because they normally seek to beautify themselves more than men. But the warning surely applies to both sexes, because the condition for the curse is declared, and thus the curse applies to anyone who satisfies such condition.
Shaving the beard falls under this warning, as it is much worse than the Nam (removal of facial hair) practiced by some women. It involves obeying Satan who said:
And I shall tempt them until they change what Allah has created. [An-Nisaa 4:119]
g. An Imitation of Women
The beard is a major distinction between men and women. Shaving it removes this distinction, and is thus a means of imitating women. The Messenger (S) said:
Allah curses those men who imitate the women, and He curses those women who imitate the men. [Al-Bukhari]
h. Shaving the Beard Contradicts the Pure Fitrah (Nature)
Allah's Messenger (S) mentioned ten qualities as indicative of a good, clean nature [Muslim]. Two of these qualities are to trim the moustaches and to grow the beard.
The Messenger (S) also tells that every child is born with a clean, pure fitrah, which later may get deformed by the influence of the environment and the up-bringing. [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].
In the footsteps of the disbelievers, many Muslims' fitrah is now, unfortunately, so much deformed that they seem to find a clean-shaven man more handsome and masculine than one with a beard - exactly the opposite of what the Messenger (S) declared in the above hadith.
This fitrah never changes with time: Allah (T) said (what means):
The pure nature according to which Allah has created people. There is no change in Allah's creation. [Ar-Room 30:30]
For shaving their beards, some men give the strange excuse that their wives prefer them without one! As if their purpose in this life is to follow the deformed inclinations of their wives instead of the clear-cut commands of Allah (T) and His Messenger (S)!
Others claim that growing their beards results in an irritability and scratching. This cannot result from abiding by the pure fitrah, but would result (if true) from neglect of the proper cleaning and washing with wudu as instructed in the Sunnah.
What the `Ulamaa and Imams Say
All the `ulamaa of as-Salaf u- li, including the Four Imams, agreed that shaving the beard is haram (prohibited). They considered shaving it an impermissible mutilation, as has been reported about Umar bin Abdil-Aziz. They used to consider the person who shaved his beard effeminate. Many of them would not accept his witness or allow him to lead the prayers.
May Allah (T) guide us to abide by His Deen, and to adhere to His Messenger's Sunnah, and to be among those whom he blessed in both lives.
THE SHAR'EE LENGTH OF THE BEARD
The purpose of this pamphlet is to emphasize the importance of the length of the beard. Many Muslims have queried regarding this point. 1 have also found that people prefer keeping a beard in imitation of what's in vogue rather than that prescribed by Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). A Compilation of this nature has become important because the impact of the western way of life seems to be luring unwary Muslims into such a craze that the importance of the beard itself is being doubted and scoffed at. Since many articles have been printed regarding the importance of the beard itself, this deals with the importance of the length of the beard. To those who feel the issue is trivial to worry about, may ALLAH guide him. BUT to those who genuinely wish to learn and practice what is right-here is sufficient proofs from the Quran, Ahadith and learned scholars.
"For Muslim males to grow a beard is wajib (compulsory), and to let it grow a fist length is wajib, without any Shari reason to cut or shave is haraarn (totally prohibited), he who does so is a faasiq (sinner), to shorten it less than a fist length is makhruh tahrimi (near haraam), to repeatedly (shorten) it is sinning and upon these laws there is IJMA, (consensus of opinion)" - Dari Aur Am- biyya Ki Sunnate-Mufti Saeed Palanpuri.
CONCERNING ADHERENCE TO THE SUNNAT ALLAH SAYS:
• "O you who believe, obey ALLAH and the RASUL and those in authority from among you" (4;59);
• "O you who believe, respond to ALLAH and his RASUL when he calls you to that which gives you LIFE" (8;24);
• "O you who believe, obey ALLAH and his RASUL and TURN NOT AWAY (from) when you hear (him speak)" (8;20);
• "Whoever obeys the RASUL, he indeed obeys ALLAH" (4;80);
• "And whatever the RASUL GIVES you, ACCEPT IT and whatever he FORBIDS you, ABSTAIN (from it)" (59;7);
• "Certainly you have in the RASUL of ALLAH a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for him who hopes in ALLAH and in the last day and remembers ALLAH much" (33;2l);
• "Nor does he say of his own desires, it is nought but revelation that is revealed" (53;3/4).
Importance of the Beard in Rasulullah (s.a.w) words:
• Rasululah (S.A.W) says "Trim closely the moustache, and let the beard flow (grow)". Reported by Ibn Umar (R.A) in Muslim, hadith no 498.
• Rasululah (S.A.W) ordered us to trim the moustache closely and spare the beard" says Ibn Umar in Muslim hadith no. 449.
• Rasululah (S.A.W) said 'Act against (contrary) to the polytheists, trim closely the moustache and grow the beard Reported by Ibn Umar (R.A) in Muslim hadith no. 500.
• Rasululah (.S.A.W) "Trim closely the moustache and grow the beard". Reported by Abu-Hurairah (RA) in Muslim hadith no. 501.
• Rasululah (S.A.W) said 'I have no connection with one who shaves, shouts and tears his clothing e.g. in grief or affication". Reported by Abu Darda (RA) in Bukhari and Muslim.
Rasululah (S.A.W) said "Any one who shaves has no claim to the mercy of ALLAH' Reported by Ibn Abbas (R.A) in Tibrabi.
• Hazart Abdullah Ibn Umar (R.A) used to cut that portion (which exceeds the grip of the hand) of beard. (Tirmizi).
• The teaching of Hazart Ammar Bin Yaasir, Abdullah Ibn Umar, Sayyindina Umar, Abu Hurairah and Jaabir (R.A), indicates that ALL used to keep beard that was one fist in length or more. Hazart Jaabir (R.A) had said; "We used to grow long beards and only during Hajj and Umrah did we trim them to required length".
• Hazart Abdullah Ibn Urnar (R.A) relates that; "He who imitates the kuffar (non-believers) and dies in that state he will be raised up with them on the Day of Qiyarnat (Judgement)."
It is reported in the Tabrani Vol 3 Page 90/91 that Kaiser, the King of Persia, after having read the letter sent by the RASUL (S.A.W) of ALLAH inviting him to accept the faith of Islaam, ordered his sub-ordinate Bayon (Badhun), the governor of Yemen, to send two persons to bring the RASUL of Islaam before him. Bayan accordingly sent two messengers who according to the fashion of those days were clean shaven and having long moustaches. When they appeared on the scene toward the RASUL (S.A.W) of ALLAH, he very much disliked the unnatural appearances of those persons and said; "Woe to you, Woe to you. Who ordered you to adopt such appearances? They said; "Our lord Kaiser". The RASUL (S.A.W) of ALLAH then told them "My Rabb COMMANDED me to lenghten my beard and clip my moustaches".
The Beard According To The Great Imams of Jurisprudence
HANAFIES
The Hanifies say "To shorten the beard less than a FIST LENGTH is HARAAM and on this is IJMA`A (consensus of opinion)".
Imam Muharnmed (RA) writes in his book "Kitabul Aathaar" where he relates from Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) who relates from Hazart Haytham (ra) who relates from Ibn Umar (ra) that he (Ibn Umar) used to hold his beard in his hand and cut off which was longer. Imam Muham- med (ra) says that this is what we follow and this was the decision of Imam Abu Hanifa (ra).
SHAFIES
Imam Shafi (ra) in his Kitabul Umm states, "To shave the beard is HARAAM". (Shari Minfiaj dar Shara Fasl Aqueeqa).
MALIKIES
Sheikh Ahmad Nafarawi Maliki in the commentary of Imam Abu Zayed's booklet states, "to shave the beard is without doubt haraam according to all Imarns", it is also mentioned in 'Tamheed' which is a commentary of "Muatta" (Sunnan Imam Malik (RA)) that to shave the beard is HARAAM and among males the only ones to resort to this (practice) are the HERMAPHRODITES.
HANBALIES
The Hanbalies in their famous Al-KhanWa Hambli Fatawa Kitab state that "to grow the beard is essential and to shave it is HARAAW. Also in the Hambali Mathab books "Sharahul Muntaha' and "Shari Manzoomatul Aadaab", it is stated "The most accepted view is that it is HARAAM (prohibited to shave the beard)".
The Beard According to the Scholars of Islam
• Dure-Makhtar states "Beard length is ONE FIST".
• Commentator of Mishkãt Hadhrath Muhaddith Abdul Haq Dehlevi (RA) says; "to keep the beard ONE FIST length is WAA.1113 (compulsory).
• Ibn Jazm Zahari writes, "To clip the moustache and to let the beard flow (grow) is FARZ (obligatory) - Al Mahly Vol 2 Page 320. quotes the above hadith (no. 500) as support.
• The commentator of Mishkãt, Shaykh Abdul Haq Muhaddith of Delhi says; "It is incumbent (wajib) to wear (a beard) to a fist's length and it is called approved (masnun) because it s a religious custom, it is sunnat, that is, the practise of all Prophets and is proven from the Rasul of Allah (S.A.W)'s practise" (Ashiat ul Larnaat Vol. 1 page 288).
• "To shave off the beard is unlawful (haraam) and one who shaves his beard is legally speaking an unrighteous fellow (fasiq); hence, it is NOT PERMISSIBLE to appoint such a man as an Imam. To say Taraweeh behind such a Imarn is MAKRUH-E-TAHRIMI (near prohibition)". (Shami-Vol 1. page 523).
• The Durre-Mukhtar states; "No one has called it permissible to trim it (the beard) less than FIST-LENGTH as is being done by some westernised Muslims and hermaphrodites" (Vol. 2 Page 155).
• The Durre-Mukhtar states; "It is forbidden (haraam) for a man to cut off another's beard" (Vol. 5. page 359).
• "To shave off the beard and to trim it more than the legal length is impermissible and forbidden (haraam). One who does so is a fasiq and his evidence is rejectable, his Imamate is near prohibited" (Fatawa Rahimiyah, Vol. 2, page 195).
• "The beard in its time (ie. when it begins to grow) is the cause of handsomeness and adornment, which is completely lost on shaving it' (Hedaya Vol. 4, page 571).
• "To wear the beard upto one fist in length is prescribed but much more than that is contrary to the practise of the Rasul of Allah (S.A.W)" (AI-Ikhtiyar, Vol 4, page 167).
• Moulana Husain Ahmad Madani (RA) in his book, "The Philosophy of the Beard", writes: "Rasulluah (S.A.W) has COMMANDED the Sahaba (RA) and the Ummah to lengthen their beards and make this a symbol and uniform of a believer. It is therefore not permissible to shave, nor to shorten nor to keep a small (goatee) beard".
• Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi (RA), an authority on Islam writes, "It is an unanimous verdict for the Ummah that to shorten the beard less than a grip of the hand is forbidden".
• Moulana Thanaullah (RA) of Panipat says, "To clip the beard more than a FIST'S LENGTH is unlawful (haraam). (Mala buda Minho, page 130).
CONCLUSION
Thus a Muslim who shaves or shortens his beard is like a hermophrodite, his Imamate is near prohibition, his evidence is not valid, he will not have the right to vote or being voted for. Shaving and shortening the beard is the action of the non-believers. Imam Ghazzali (RA) says, "know that the key to total bliss (saadah) lies in following the Sunnah and in emulating the life of Rasulullah (S.A.W) in ALL that issues from him, and in ALL his doings even if it concerns the manner of his eating, rising, sleeping, and speaking. I do say this in relation to rituals in worship ONLY because there is no way neglecting the Sunnah reported of him in such matters - but what I say INCLUDES EVERY ASPECT of his daily life". (Kitab al Arbain Addin, Cairo 1344, page 89). Allah Taala told Nabi (S.A.W) to say, "Say IF you love Allah, follow me, Allah will love you" (3-31).
The daily recitation of a band of angels of ALLAH is "HOLY is the Being who adorned men with beard and women with pigtails and braids" (Takmela e Bahr al Raiq Xol 3 page 33)
ALLAH TAALA says ---And when true believers are called to ALLAH and His RASUL (S.A.W) (to accept and practice the law and commands of ALLAH and His RASUL) (S.A.W) that he may pass judgement upon them, their ONLY reply is "We hear and obey" Such men shall surely prosper' (24/51).
THE CALL IS TO GROW A FIST LENGTH BEARD, LET US HEAR AND OBEY TO PROSPER.
'The Shari Length of the Beard' by Mufti Afzal Elias, P.O. Box 5689, Benoni South 1502
END
abaleada
24-04-03, 01:56 PM
assalaam-o-alaykum
where is the thread on the beard?
Til then, some links and info:
*beard: how long? various schools (http://www.tazkiya.net/Library/Fiqh/Hanafi/Misc/beard_fistful_malikis_others.html)
*beard: how long? hanafi details (http://www.tazkiya.net/Library/Fiqh/Hanafi/Misc/beard_length_hanafi_school.html)
*beard: how long? hanafi-ibn abidin (http://www.tazkiya.net/Library/Fiqh/Hanafi/Misc/beards_ibn_abidin.html)
*beard: how to treat people with short beards (http://www.tazkiya.net/Library/Fiqh/Hanafi/Misc/criticizing_scholar_having_trim_beards.html)
AbuMubarak
08-11-03, 11:20 PM
for any of you who grow your beards for ramadan
DONT SHAVE IT OFF THIS YEAR
joeschmoe
08-11-03, 11:26 PM
My beard is pathetic. :)
AbuMubarak
08-11-03, 11:33 PM
it doesnt matter what it looks like, as long as you dont cut it
joeschmoe
09-11-03, 05:06 AM
Why does it matter if you cut it? I read the thread and couldn't find an answer except "it's definitely haraam" and "non-believers/hermaphrodites shave."
abdulhakeem
09-11-03, 04:18 PM
We are the beardsmen!!! (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=23453)
Justcurious
09-11-03, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by abdulhakeem
We are the beardsmen!!! (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=23453)
Why don't you have any beard in your avatar?
Ankaboot
09-11-03, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Justcurious
Why don't you have any beard in your avatar? JC.. you think this would do?
Bushy Beard (http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushundercover2.htm)
Justcurious
09-11-03, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by Ankaboot
JC.. you think this would do?
Bushy Beard (http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushundercover2.htm)
I was thinking of the same picture!
ze leetle elper
09-11-03, 06:05 PM
Its amazing how a beard actually suits all men...like it is the natural thing to do. :D
Same with hijab, it looks fantastic on all sisters. :love: :)
But I do know of some people who have never shaved, but they still don't have a beard, it just does not grow... :freedom:
...Would they still be able to be an Imam? (based on someone saying somewhere on the first page that a man without a beard cannot be an Imam).
:confused:
AbuNajm
09-11-03, 09:13 PM
one of my favorite imams in Chicago is a young Somalian brother, or is it Ethiopian- no beard- funny story about me questioning him after salaat one day about why he shaves- he doesnt, it just doesnt grow yet...
no problem with not having a beard, as long as you dont shave it to make it so....hadith about the 7 years old boy that was made to lead salaat because he had memorized Quran from the caravans in the time of Rasulullah, SAWS. The rest of the people hadnt learned yet, but they had all converted to Islam, so all they had was this 7 year old boy to be Imam- i am quite sure he didnt have a beard!
why not to shave the beard? i am fairly certain this was answered more than once- for starters, we are told not to by Rasulullah, SAWS, and that is about as good as reasons get. but for the weak minded or weak hearted, we are told not to imitate the kafiroon who even today can be found shaving their faces en masse- and this is for obvious reasons of identifying ourselves as people who are upon Tawhid or oneness of Allah AWJ, and distinguishing ourselves from them in order that we know each other upon sight...
one possible reason as an aside not directly related to any reasons specifically related in Ahadith is that shaving the face does irreparable damage to the skin of the face and advances aging- it is just plain unhealthy to do so....
alifromconroe
10-11-03, 01:21 AM
"Oh, don't be silly! Who do you always try your best to provoke us?"
I'ts not silly in the least. Obviously, you have never been around Native Americans. Native American men have an extremely hard time growing facial hair, some people cannot grow a full beard. Native Americans are an example of this. I'm not saying ALL can't, but most cannot, or they can grow only very little facial hair.
Now, I'm not sure about Meso Native Americans. You see, Native Americans can be divided into two groups. North American, and Meso(which is the Indians of Latin American lands). The Meso's(Aztec's, Mayans etc.) tend to be of shorter stature, and have darker skin then the North American Natives(Cherokee's, Kiowa's etc.). But the latter usually have a hard time growing a beard, if they can even do so.
joeschmoe
10-11-03, 01:36 AM
Native American men have an extremely hard time growing facial hair, some people cannot grow a full beard.
Which is why the legalism of "fist length" and so on seems ridiculous. I heard someone say on these forums a long time ago how shaven men have no business talking about Islam. I say judge people by the content of their character, not by their beard length.
AbuMubarak
10-11-03, 02:24 AM
joe
you have one more time to speak disparingly about anything which is a sound islamic practice and you will be reading ummah.com as a guest
the only thing ridiculous is how someone can be granted everything from their Lord, but refuse to worship Him, as He has commanded
anyone who cant grow a beard is not held accountable for shaving it (duh)
if you dont know, then ask, but this is not some freedom of speech place where everyone's opinion matters (esp when it is a veiled attack against islam)
enjoy posting, just post with a little intelligence
joeschmoe
10-11-03, 02:36 AM
Thanks for the warning. I don't think I spoke disparagingly, but indeed I am a guest. Sorry if any offense was taken.
I think I choose my words carefully. I said "seems" because that's how it seems.
Do you believe that not having a beard means that someone's statements are less credible? Do you agree with the "content of their character" remark?
Where's oneshot?
AbuMubarak
10-11-03, 03:46 AM
of course joe
wearing a beard doesnt make you saintly, nor does a woman wearing hijab make her perfect
you can be an idiot with a beard or hijab
but
we wear the beards and the hijabs out of obedience to our Lord, which is what is important
our internal selves, thats something all of us must work on, but disobedience to Allah is a clear manifestation of a dark heart
Lateafha
10-11-03, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by joeschmoe
Do you believe that not having a beard means that someone's statements are less credible? Do you agree with the "content of their character" remark?
well Your beard does not make you special your heart and your deeds make you who you are, the beard is sunnah, but you have to be a good muslim from inside out, not just have a beard.
joeschmoe
10-11-03, 04:03 AM
our internal selves, thats something all of us must work on, but disobedience to Allah is a clear manifestation of a dark heart
That's the point I'm driving at. Is shaving an act of disobediance or are folks missing the point behind the law? I think it's similar to the issue originally addressed in this hijacked thread. I'll skip to the meat: Son of Smearer... (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=239668#post239668)
mtsmallick
10-11-03, 04:49 AM
Bismiallah Ir-rahman Ir-rahim
I really amazed to hear our muslims brothers & sisters that growing beard is a only sunnah. "This only sunnah" cost us our destination. Whatever our Prophet Muhammad (saw) have give us must take it and whatever he (saw) has forbid must be forbidden.
Muhammad (saw) dont do anything for himself but what ever he did or say is a will of Allah (swt). If Allah (swt) most beloved person Muhammad (saw) has a beard on his face, then how come we ordinary people has the courage and mind to deny this act. I think, every act and sayings of Muhammad (saw) is a command of Allah (swt). If we a true and loyal follower of Allah (swt) then we obey each and every command and dont ask why? and dont differentiate it by calling it "only sunnah".
Yes every muslims not only be a good muslim from inside but his goodness and believe in islam will also reflects from outside also. How come a loyal anf sincere servant of Allah (swt) hide his eeman by not reflecting it from outside.
For completness of eeeman a follower must adhere what Quran & sunnah says. And its includes growing of beard. For muslims, Prophet Muhammad (saw) is an ideal and we loves him, then how come a follower and lover can restrict himself of doing things what his ideal do and say.
Let us pray for our hyporacy and ask Allah (swt) to made us enable to enter the Islam Completely (no half measures).
And for those who from Allah (swt) will dont have beard is completely free from this responsibility as Allah (swt) dont give them. so they are not liable for any sin.
Beard is only for those who can have beard on this face, those who dont are free.
Brother_Daniel
10-11-03, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by mtsmallick
Bismiallah Ir-rahman Ir-rahim
I really amazed to hear our muslims brothers & sisters that growing beard is a only sunnah. "This only sunnah" cost us our destination. Whatever our Prophet Muhammad (saw) have give us must take it and whatever he (saw) has forbid must be forbidden.
Muhammad (saw) dont do anything for himself but what ever he did or say is a will of Allah (swt). If Allah (swt) most beloved person Muhammad (saw) has a beard on his face, then how come we ordinary people has the courage and mind to deny this act. I think, every act and sayings of Muhammad (saw) is a command of Allah (swt). If we a true and loyal follower of Allah (swt) then we obey each and every command and dont ask why? and dont differentiate it by calling it "only sunnah".
Yes every muslims not only be a good muslim from inside but his goodness and believe in islam will also reflects from outside also. How come a loyal anf sincere servant of Allah (swt) hide his eeman by not reflecting it from outside.
For completness of eeeman a follower must adhere what Quran & sunnah says. And its includes growing of beard. For muslims, Prophet Muhammad (saw) is an ideal and we loves him, then how come a follower and lover can restrict himself of doing things what his ideal do and say.
Let us pray for our hyporacy and ask Allah (swt) to made us enable to enter the Islam Completely (no half measures).
And for those who from Allah (swt) will dont have beard is completely free from this responsibility as Allah (swt) dont give them. so they are not liable for any sin.
Beard is only for those who can have beard on this face, those who dont are free.
Good post brother. I have been trying for sometime now to get Muslims at the masjid I attend to grow beards, but to no avail. Insha'Allah they will see the value of it and grow them.
joeschmoe
10-11-03, 06:07 AM
Insha'Allah they will see the value of it and grow them.
Maybe that's my point. What is the value of a beard? (I'd prefer an answer other than "Muhammad had one" but if you must you must.)
Ankaboot
16-12-03, 01:30 AM
'Be different from the Mushrikun (those who assign Allah partners); trim your moustaches and allow your beards to grow.'
[Narrated by Ibn Umar(RA) in Sahih Al-Bukhari and Muslim]
Ankaboot
16-12-03, 01:33 AM
Lately picked up a book, fairly new in the bookshops, called 'Growing a Beard' author, Gohar Mushtaq.. apparently gives lecture and khutbahs in the NJ and NY areas..
Rather interesting..
Some excerpts..
'He that hath a beard is more than a youth, and he that hath no beard is less than a man.'
William Shakespeare Much Ado About NOthing
"After the greeks, the Romans were the first actually to introduce the practice of regularly shaving off the beard. Alexander the Great was not the only one in power who ordered and forced his subordinates to shave their beards. Peter the Great of Russia imposed a tax on his people and anybody in his kingdom who wanted to grow his beard had to pay that tax. In ancient Persia, the fire-worshipping Zoroastrian kings adopted the practice of shaving their beards. Consequently the people of ancient Persia started to shave their beards to please their kings. In many of the states of the former Soviet Union, Muslims were not allowed to grow their beards. In Turkey, people are not allowed to wear a beard in many institutions even though the Turkish government claims that it is a secular state in imitation of its European masters."
Ankaboot
16-12-03, 01:34 AM
The beard-free culture is pushed forward by large profit making shaving product companies aswell as the film and fashion industries..
They spend millions on advertising their products: shaving creams, gels, razor blades the lot.. , whether it be the Gillette triple blade (Mach3) or Wilkinson's quatro.. all in order to sell their products and convince us that shaving is the hip thing to do, and suggesting the use of Gillette will increase your chances of getting a beautiful woman at your side too..
A Dr. Herbert Mescon calculates that a staggering 3350 hours (139 full days) are spent in 55 years of shaving..
So not only are you wasting money but also vast amounts of time to remove the natural growth of a facial hair..
Ankaboot
16-12-03, 01:40 AM
The real question is not. 'Why grow a beard?' but 'Why not let it grow?'
The growth of a beard is natural, it will go on growing, it is those that shave, that need to explain why they do it...
Here is the story of George Bernard Shaw and the beard issue...
There were rumours that Shaw was to shave off his beard, and a electric shaving company sent him their product as a free gift, so that he may use their razor to do the deed. This is how he replied to them:
"I am returning your razor, as I have no intention of using it, or of removing my beard. I am keeping it for the reason that I grew it. I grew it for the same reason that my father grew his. I have a clear recollection of asking him that question, and of his reply. I was about five at the time, and I was standing at my father's knee whilst he was shaving. I said to him, 'Daddy, why do you shave?' He looked at me in silence for a full minute, before throwing his razor out the window, saying, 'Why the hell do I?' He never did (shaving) again."
Ankaboot
16-12-03, 01:42 AM
"Justice Taqi Usmani in his book Islahi Khutbat narrates the story of a Muslim man in a Muslim country who had a beard and who was looking for a job.
During the interview his employer-to-be told him: 'I can offer you the job but I have one requirement. You have to shave off your beard. You have a couple of days to make the decision.'
Human beings easily deceive themselves. Material greed urged that man to reason that, after all, getting a job was more important and he could follow the Prophet (SAW) in other ways. He thought that not following the Messenger of Allah (SAW) in one Sunnah would make little difference. Therefore, he decided to shave off his beard so that he could get the job.
The next day, the man reached the office and met his prospective employer. 'I have shaved off my beard, can I have the job now?'
The boss replied ' I was testing you. You have failed the test. If you could disobey Allah so easily, you would definitely disobey your employer. If a person is not sincere to his Supreme Employer Allah, how could that person be sincere to his employer in this world. Therefore, I cannot offer you the job. Sorry!'
Hence, he not only disobeyed Allah but also lost worldly benefit."
Ankaboot
16-12-03, 01:47 AM
Author in one section tries to explain why a beard is somewhat deemed unfavourable in the Western culture at large..
And the kind of comments that bearded ones face..
"When I started to grow my beard, a Christian lady, who happened to be my colleague at the university, said to me as a joke:
"Do you want to become like Ayatullah (Khomeinei)?" I replied to her with a smile:
"No, actually I want to become like Jesus. That is why I have grown a beard."
When she heard this reply, she was dumbstruck. She could say nothing further." Gohar Mustaq
"People were surprised to see me. But I was numb with pain becuase only recently, I had lost my daughter Bisma. I felt very empty but I was surprised by people's reaction. They came up to me and started asking about the beard, about who I was. Also, I was respected more than ever before.
The beard has had a strange spiritual effect on me which I cannot describe. When you wear a sweater it gives you warmth inside. Also, the beard has affected the people around me. They never utter a filthy word in my presence. So my five senses are protected from exposure to bad things." Saeed Anwar
Ankaboot
16-12-03, 01:50 AM
Feel free (no charge!) to post any beard facts, stories etc etc on 'The Beard Thread'
Ankaboot
16-12-03, 01:59 AM
Have to say..
Saddam did well..
JiHaD_JoE
16-12-03, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by Ankaboot
The real question is not. 'Why grow a beard?' but 'Why not let it grow?'
The growth of a beard is natural, it will go on growing, it is those that shave, that need to explain why they do it...
im not condeming people who have beards in all, but the growth of the moustache is natural.
MashaAllah, excellent thread!
IS IT FARD TO GROW THE BEARD?
Ankaboot
18-12-03, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by JiHaD_JoE
im not condeming people who have beards in all, but the growth of the moustache is natural. As is the the growth of pubic hair...
Removed with reason...
With what reason do people shave their beards?
Ankaboot
22-12-03, 03:41 AM
Longest beard - 6ft (http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/index.asp?id=48565)
Ankaboot
14-02-04, 12:07 PM
Poem by Br Tushar Imdad-ul-Haque Bhuiya
http://www.leicesterisoc.org/ARTICL...yOfTheBeard.htm
Context of poem
I came to eat dinner in my halls of residence one day last year when two sisters started laughing at me; I had some food stuck in my beard. They went on to innocently and honestly mock my beard saying it was messy, unnatural and unhygienic. Little did they know the rage that I felt as a result of this and I channeled this rage by unleashing my anger through my pen and out came this poem.
I performed this poem in the Leicester University/DMU Islamic Societies and Eid Celebration and it was received with much laughter and acclaim - Alhamdulillah. Due to popular demand and many requests I have decided to type my poem up and email it to my friends in Islam. Let me remind you all not to be offended as this is no fatwa or religious statement - just a funny poem that spontaneously was produced as a result of my unfortunate experience...
Tushar (12th March 2001)
"Glorified be He who beautifies women with long locks of hair
And Men with long beards
There is beauty in the beard
Aye, there is beauty in the beard!
When the lion roars all the animals submit
For the lion is the king of the jungle
The lion with its glorious mane
And a Muslim man grows his mane in pride
Showing the rest of humanity that he is to be respected
Can one imagine a lion without its mane?
Nay, thou canst not!
Then imagine a man without his beard
Woe to worldly women who mock the beards so!
Desiring husbands with clean shaven faces
Woe to women who mock the Prophets Sunnah
In the name of hygiene, neatness and smooth texture
Indeed the women of this world cannot like the beard
But she who wants Paradise adores the beard!
A beard is a gift given to man
Something only he can grow; a woman never can!
When he ponders, he gently strokes it;
When he eats, it stores food;
When he is with kids, they play with it adoringly;
When he is with his wife, she fondles it lovingly;
When the enemy see it, fear is struck in their hearts!
Ah! there is indeed beauty in the beard!
All the Prophets had beards - yes they did!
Muhammad had a beard - so big! so big!
All the companions had beards - o yes! o yes!
All the sages had beards - I know! I know!
All the wise have beards - tis true! tis true!
All the pious have beards - you see! you see!
All the Muslims have beards!? - if only! if only!
Who did not have beards? The kafirun!
Who had clean shaven faces? The kafirun!
Who grew their moustaches? The kafirun!
"And what did our Prophet order?" I here you ask
He ordered us to lengthen the beard and trim the moustache!
Lengthen the beard and trim the moustache!
What greater reason that this can there be
The fact that our Prophet told us to see
That we make ourselves appear to the world
As full bearded men with honour untold
O Muslim brother! Why do you desire to look like a woman
When your blessed facial hair is the differece between you and the opposite gender?
O poor Muslim brother! Why do you imitate the kafir
Instead of following the Prophet of Islam?
O silly Muslim sister! Why are you so blind?
Infatuated with Bollywood actors who have no mind!
O wretched sister! Are you not scared of your choice?
You would rather have a feminine monkey instead of an exalted manly ape!
So indeed I love my beard
And adore the curls and tangles
Which no oil, gel or superglue can ever straighten
My glorious long, curly, messy, fluffy beard!
The playhouse for kids;
The envy of Malaysian people
And the beloved of Allah!
I maybe rejected by worldly women because of this hair on my face
But who care! For my Mum loves it and she puts all such sisters to disgrace!
Be patient Muslim brothers, who shun the trendy look for a Prophetic pose
Paradise with the wide eyed Houris is our final abode!!!!!"
Tushar
RoomDog
14-02-04, 05:26 PM
Good muslims??? (http://www.iskon.hr/2002/10/25/0112007.17.jpg)
:D ;)
Consider
14-02-04, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by RoomDog
Good muslims??? (http://www.iskon.hr/2002/10/25/0112007.17.jpg)
:D ;)
Muslim wannabes you mean
Please tell them they're doing it all wrong.
frank chu
14-02-04, 06:16 PM
Seems to me that the first sentence of this thread explains it all:
"Be different...."
The Jews had different dietary laws to distinguish them from their neighbors as God's "holy" ("set apart") people. People would also recognize the Jews through their different worship practices.
Then, the Christians were told to be different too. We are to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect by loving our enemies, blessing those who curse us, doing good to those who hate us, and praying for those who spitefully use us and persecute us. Jesus said we would be known as His disciples by our love for one another.
Then, the Muslims were told to be different by growing their beards.
Mary Carol
14-02-04, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by frank chu
Then, the Muslims were told to be different by growing their beards.
And dressing modestly.
AmusedII
14-02-04, 06:58 PM
Because they ITCH!;)
Originally posted by Ankaboot
As is the the growth of pubic hair...
Removed with reason...
With what reason do people shave their beards?
abaleada
15-02-04, 10:38 PM
Shafi`i madhhab:
Ibn Hajar says in his Tuhfa: “The outword purport (dhahir) of what our imams say is that it is unconditionally disliked to trim the beard.” (Tuhfat al-Muhtaj, 9.376)
In the same text, same reference, ibn Hajar also reccommended washing and oiling the beard to kee a clean and pleasing appearance.
Despite the fact that the official position of the Shafi‘i school is that shaving one’s beard is disliked, many prominent Shafi‘is (al-Halimi among the early Shafi‘is and al-Adhra‘i, Ibn al-Rif‘ah, Zayn al-Din al-Malibari, and Ibn Ziyad among the later ones) have taken the opinion that it is forbidden. As such, the way of caution in one’s religion would be to keep a full beard.
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Hanafi madhhab:
In the Durr al-Mukhtar is says that the beard's "...sunnah length is a fistful... And as for shortening it when it is less than that, as some North Africans and effeminate men do, this is something no one [i.e. of the Hanafi scholars] has said is permitted..." Ibn Abidin concurred with this in his supercommentary Radd al-Muhtar. ... This position is also confirmed in other works, such as al-Bahr al-Ra'iq, Fath al-Qadir, and al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya.
Ibn 'Umar relates from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) that he said: "Do otherwise than those who ascribe partners to Allah (al-mushrikin): leave beards be, and trim mustaches." And ibn 'Umar, when he went on hajj or 'umra, grasped his beard with his hand, and removed what was