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AbuZayd Al-Britaani
15-12-03, 08:02 PM
Assalamu alaykum,

Do Born Muslims Expect Too Much From Converts?
Answered by Sidi Yahya Birt, UK
Question: I am a recent convert. I began the process last fall and observed Rhamadan, though having little understanding of the full intention and impact of it's meaning. I did not have enough witnesses, so didn't "officially convert" until April. I have the sincerest intention and want to learn and know about Islam, but find that I am pushed too hard. I am expected to act and have the understanding, faith, and knowledge of a born Muslim, but somewhere in there, people forget that I only recently converted. I would like to have some basis to quote from AL QUR'AN or from the the sayings of the Prophet tell people to "Back Off!" "I am learning!" "Be Patient with me!" I cannot learn the same level of Piety and understanding, in 6 months, that others have taken 30, or 50 years to develop. Some people look down on me, and I feel like they are pushing me away from Islam. I won't let them! They say that it is the shayton getting to me, but I feel that if there is any truth to that, then the shayton are acting through them.... not distorting my thoughts. (In this Holy Month, we all know the shayton and the Jinn are all chained up anyway... and all of the fish in the sea are praying for us to have strength...) When I try to explain that I feel overwhelmed, they say that I should use the free time that I have and it seems they would have me submersed 1000% into the study of Islam. Too much at one time can have a bad effect. I am learning to become very weary of talking to these people, who were the people I looked up to most. They were patient with me, they didn't push me.... now I feel alone in the journey. I don't feel like I can ask them questions like before. How can I tell them to be patient with me? Did the Prophet say anything about patience with converts? Please help.




Walaikum assalam,

Converts, in the early days, have entered a big new world that is often confusing for them, and so they do not always protect their new found faith adequately in the early days. One manifestation of this is the propensity to ask ordinary Muslims questions about Islam which they are not equipped to answer, while not possessing the restraint to refer you to someone else who knows better.

My best advice would be to deliberately find one knowledgeable scholar in your city whom you respect, and to ask him to help you by giving you answers and advice when sought for. It is highly desirable if you agree to have some private tuition with this scholar, and ideally that you agree upon what is the right pace for you to proceed in learning the basics.

So the best way to avoid bad or ill-informed advice is to nominate this one learned person to act as your mentor, and then to politely decline the active advice of others, while acting as a good brother to them, until you have found your feet. Finding your feet means knowing what is personally obligatory for you at this moment (some obligations might fall on you later on in life, like providing a lawful income for your wife after you get married).

As for gradualism in religion, the Holy Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) said:

"Verily this religion is inexorable, so enter its depth gently (Ahmad, 12618); if you try to seize it all at once, it will overpower you" (Bukhari, 39).

A contemporary American scholar in Hanafi jurisprudence, Hedaya Hartford, who is also a convert, comments on this hadith that: "We must take this religion one step at a time. It is a complete way of life and requires time to adjust. In learning your religion, you must begin to re-examine and regard things in its new light. Apply Allah's commands in the spirit of 'We hear and we obey' (Qur'an, 5:7). Assimilating what you learn consistently will facilitate this. It is through Allah's mercy and wisdom that we are shown our faults gradually. As many converts to Islam can attest, it may take years to really shed non-Islamic manners and patterns of behaviour. Whether new to Islam or not, your keeping to Islam is a tremendous blessing from Allah, for in it lies the means to earthly and eternal happiness."

Source: Hedaya Hartford, 'The First Steps', Islamic Marriage, first edition (Damascus: Dar al-Fikr, 2000), p. 19.

So what about those first steps? A man came to the Holy Prophet and asked: "Messenger of Allah, say something to me about Islam which I will not ask anyone else except you." He said, "Say, 'I believe in Allah', and then remain upright [literally go straight]." (related by Muslim)

The great scholar Imam Nawawi comments on this prophetic tradition that remaining upright means persevering in the path by doing what is obligatory and leaving what is forbidden.

How should we aim to progress towards Allah?

The Holy Prophet (may Allah bless him and give him peace) said that Allah Most High said: "[...] My slave does not draw closer to Me with anything more beloved to Me than that which I have made obligatory upon him. My slave continues to draw closer with optional extra acts until I love him. [...]." (an excerpt from the hadith narrated by Bukhari)

About Him Most High saying "My slave does not draw closer to Me with anything more beloved to Me than that which I have made obligatory upon him", Imam Nawawi comments, "There is proof that performance of obligatory acts is better than optional extra acts. It has been narrated in the hadith literature that 'the reward of the obligatory is preferred seventy times over the reward of the optional acts' [related by Ibn Khuzayma]."

About Him Most High saying, "My slave continues to draw closer with optional extra acts until I love him", Imam Nawawi comments by way of example that "whoever prays extra optional prayers along with the obligatory prayers becomes more beloved to Allah. [Note: Imam Nawawi has mentioned prayer as an example, but included in the meaning of this prophetic tradition are all the acts of Islam, obligatory or non-obligatory.] Love from Allah is [His] willing the best [for one]. Whenever He loves His slave He occupies him in His remembrance and obedience, He protects him from the Devil, He occupies his limbs in acts of obedience, He makes hearing the Qur'an and dhikr [recollection of Allah] beloved to him, and makes hearing [lewd or base] singing and instruments of diversion detestable to him. He becomes one of those about whom Allah has said, 'When they hear useless talk, they turn away from it' [Qur'an: al-Qasas/55], and [about whom] He Most High said, 'When the ignorant address them they speak peacefully' [Qur'an: al-Furqan/63], that is, if they hear some indecent talk from them they turn away from it, and they say something with which they are safe [from wrong action]. He guards his sight from those things which it is forbidden [to see] and he does not look at that which is not permitted for him, so his looking becomes a look of reflection and consideration, and he does not see anything which has been created but that he has a proof from it of its Creator. `Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him) said, 'I do not see anything but that I see Allah Most High before it.' The meaning of consideration is to pass , through reflection, from creation to the power of the Creator, so that he glorifies [Allah] at that, declares His sanctity and vastness, the movements of his two hands and his feet all become solely for the sake of Allah Most High, and he does not walk for a purpose which does not concern him, doe snot do anything profitless with his hand, rather his movements and his stillnesses are all for Allah Most High, and so he is rewarded for that in his movements, stillnesses and in all of his actions."

So to recap the main points.

1. The path in Islam is a lifelong one, and our religion is of the greatest depth and profundity. One should not enter its depths at the beginning because they will prove too much for us before we have gotten the basics right.

2. We should find one teacher to learn our religion from, and to seek general advice from. We are commanded to seek knowledge from learned people, that is the scholars of Islam, and not from ordinary Muslims at the mosque. We should politely disregard their advice.

3. We should first learn about what is obligatory for us to practise and establish that in our lives. The obligatory acts are what is most beloved to Allah. These are the basics. After that, we can learn about and practise what is non-obligatory in order to seek Allah's love, and to thereafter swing in the profundies of religion. So don't worry about the non-obligatory until you have cracked the obligatory.

4. There is a prayer which we can say to keep us steadfast in this way of religion: rabbanaa la tuzigh quloobanaa ba`da idh hadaytanaa wa hablanaa min la-dunka rahma innaka antal-wahhaab [O Our Lord, do not cause our hearts to wave after they have received guidance, and give mercy to us from Yourself; Truly You are the Bestower.]

Many salams,
Yahya


Is There Gradualisation For Converts in Islam?


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Sultan
16-12-03, 10:24 PM
It's funny in a way.

I find that reverts tend to know more than 'born' muslims.

Many 'born' muslims tend to follow Islam as a cultural thing not realising how much that culture has diluted down their deen.

Lateafha
17-12-03, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by Sultan
Many 'born' muslims tend to follow Islam as a cultural thing not realising how much that culture has diluted down their deen.

sad but true.

MoppIV
17-12-03, 08:46 AM
I myself am a convert or revert and I find born Muslims very judgmental. I wanted to marry a American born Muslim from Libya his parents were dead set against it because I am not from Libya. They would not meet with my family. They said that it be too hard on me that I would never be accepted.

Ali_Khan
19-12-03, 05:57 PM
<<I myself am a convert or revert and I find born Muslims very judgmental. I wanted to marry a American born Muslim from Libya his parents were dead set against it because I am not from Libya. They would not meet with my family. They said that it be too hard on me that I would never be accepted.>>

With muslims like these who needs kafirs.

Sultan
21-12-03, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by MoppIV
I myself am a convert or revert and I find born Muslims very judgmental. I wanted to marry a American born Muslim from Libya his parents were dead set against it because I am not from Libya. They would not meet with my family. They said that it be too hard on me that I would never be accepted.

You know, I once heard a similar thing where a moroccan woman wanted to marry a jordanian.

They thought that because he was from Jordan, he must be a christian!

You know, there are some jerkoff hardcore arab nationalists about who think that muslims don't exist beyond their own national border!

Arab nationalists are just hypocrites.

May all dogs poo on their doorstep!

Lateafha
22-12-03, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by Sultan
May all dogs poo on their doorstep!

Why don't you instead say soemthing like, May Allah guide them and show them the true path? :)

Ali_Khan
22-12-03, 10:11 AM
I(ts strange not many people know this butarabs only constitute 17% of the world's muslim population. And Sultan, nationalism unfortauntly exists in every muslim country.

Ayah
22-12-03, 05:58 PM
True that sis Lateafha and br. Ali. Also, after I read the title of the thread, I thought to myself, "Why should anyone expect anything from anyone?" Each person is a Muslim for his/her own self and is steadfast (should be) for the sake of Allah.

~Ayah

Sultan
23-12-03, 10:16 PM
Warnings against nationalism (or love for it):



Grouping the Muslims on tribalistic lines is clearly forbidden. It is narrated by Abu Da'wud that the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said,

"He is not one us who calls for `Asabiyyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for `Asabiyyah or who dies for `Asabiyyah."

And in another Hadith, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) referring to nationalism, racism, and patriotism said:

"Leave it, it is rotten." [Muslim and Bukhari] and in the Hadith recorded in Mishkat al-Masabith, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said,

"He who calls for `Asabiyyah is as if he bit his father's genitals"

Also, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said, narrated by At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud,

"There are indeed people who boast of their dead ancestors; but in the sight of Allah they are more contemptible than the black beetle that rolls a piece of dung with its nose. Behold, Allah has removed from you the arrogance of the Time of Jahiliyyah (Ignorance) with its boast of ancestral glories. Man is but an Allah-fearing believer or an unfortunate sinner. All people are the children of Adam, and Adam was created out of dust."

Also, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said,

"Undoubtedly Allah has removed from you the pride of arrogance of the age of Jahilliyah (ignorance) and the glorification of ancestors. Now people are of two kinds. Either believers who are aware or transgressors who do wrong. You are all the children of Adam and Adam was made of clay. People should give up their pride in nations because that is a coal from the coals of Hell-fire. If they do not give this up Allah (swt) will consider them lower than the lowly worm which pushes itself through Khara (dung)." [Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi]

AbuMubarak
23-12-03, 11:16 PM
so much for muslims being proud they are this group, or that group, or proud of this country or that country

where is ........?

outlandish
24-12-03, 10:09 AM
where is ?
:D yes nationalism is very bad
As for muslims expecting too much from converts,why should we,we ourself to bother about why anyone else

seven
24-12-03, 11:15 AM
my uncle was telling me... back in the days, when someone reverted (back home, in india) the person would be provided with everything they needed, including a spouse.

peace2u
24-12-03, 01:05 PM
:) that had to be good.

Sometimes I think converts expect too much from born muslims just as born muslims expect too much from them. Patience is a virtue that is dwindling from this ummah at a very rapid pace.


Pece

DALMAR
28-12-03, 09:25 AM
I think main reason those born Muslims won't allow their children marry to revert Muslims is when they go back to their country this revert Muslim won’t move with them (wife/husband) to foreign land

Myself I am going back to my country inshallah, I don't won't left my son/daughter here because he/she married revert Muslim who want stay here since this is their home.

Songbird
29-12-03, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by LATEAFHA
Why don't you instead say soemthing like, May Allah guide them and show them the true path? :)

Because what he said was funnier!!! :p

abdulhakeem
30-12-03, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by peace2u
:) that had to be good.

Sometimes I think converts expect too much from born muslims just as born muslims expect too much from them. Patience is a virtue that is dwindling from this ummah at a very rapid pace.


Pece i was just about to ask the same:

do born muslims expect too much from converts? or...

do converts expect too much from born muslims? or...

does Allah expect to much from us? or, or, or...

???

shall i cross the road, go back or stay? which decision shall i make? anything has its cause and effect. and Allah knows best whats good for us.

a related story that was once mailed to me:

The Story of an African King and His Friend

By Arshad

A story is told about a King in Africa who had a close friend that he grew up with. The friend had a habit of looking at every situation that ever occurred in his life (positive or negative) by remarking, "This is good, Allah Almighty knows best"

One day the King and his friend were out on a hunting expedition. The friend would load and prepare the guns for the King. The friend had apparently done something wrong in preparing one of the guns, for after taking the gun from his friend, the King fired it and his thumb was blown off.

Examining the situation the friend remarked as usual, "This is good! Allah Almighty knows best."
To which the King replied, "No, this is NOT good!" and ordered his soldiers to put his friend into jail.

About a year later, the King was hunting in an area that he should have known to stay clear of. Cannibals captured the King and took him to their village. They tied his hands, stacked some wood, set up a stake and bound him to the stake.

As they came near to set fire to the wood, they noticed that the King was missing a thumb. Being superstitious, they never ate anyone who was less than whole. So after untying the King, they chased him out of the village.

When the King reached his Palace, he was reminded of the event that had taken his thumb and felt remorse for his treatment of his friend. He went immediately to the jail to speak with his friend.

"You were right" the King said, "it was good that my thumb was blown off." And he proceeded to tell the friend all that had just happened. "I am very sorry for sending you to jail for so long. It was bad for me to do this."

"No," his friend replied, "this is good...Allah Almighty knows best"

"What do you mean, 'this is good'! How could it be good that I sent my friend to jail for a year?"

The King's friend replied: "Remember that the Almighty knows best and if I had NOT been in jail, I would have been with you on that hunting trip."

"He knows what is before them And what is behind them: And to Allah go back All questions (for decision)" Qur'an:Surah Al Hajj 22:76

Do Not Judge Things or Events by its Immediate Outcome!

Almighty, the Most High, is the All-Knowledgable, the All-Knower...

He chooses to show us things... but sometimes... we are not shown the wisdom behind somethings. When we are confronted by circumstances that are not very pleasing.... we are quick to say: "This is not good..." but... is it really? We might not know the purpose behind it. It might turn to be a good thing.... thus.. .when we are faced with any situation... do not be too quick to judge... always remember.... this life is a test... the good and the bad.... and there is nothing that happens for no reason... our brains are just not gifted enough to understand these reasons yet. Things happen to us for a reason.

Fi Amman Allah

abdulhakeem
31-12-03, 01:47 PM
Maashallah, New Muslim (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=286189)