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TheAuthenticBase
03-02-11, 05:04 PM
To celebrate the birthday of the Prophet (saw) is indeed an innovation, not practised by any of the Salaf. It was invented much later around 600 years after the death of the prophet 9saw) as Ibn Katheer mentions.

A definition of biddah:

Imaam ash-Shaatibee (rahima-hullaah) mentions:


"Linguistically bid’ah (innovation) means ‘a newly invented matter’.
The Sharee’ah definition of bid’ah is: “A newly invented way [beliefs or action] in the religion, in imitation of the Sharee’ah (prescribed Law), by which nearness to Allaah is sought, [but] not being supported by any authentic proof – neither in its foundations, nor in the manner in which it is performed." [al-I’tisaam of ash-Shaatibee, 1/37]

One of te best articles I have read so far regarding the celebration of the Prophet's birthday:
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/ruling-on-celebrating-the-birthday-of-the-prophet-by-shaykh-dr-saalih-bin-fawzaan-al-fawzaan/

Another article by Bin Baaz:
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/the-milaad-a-caution-against-innovation-by-imaamabdul-aziz-ibn-baaz/

Know dear brothers, that in Islaam tere are only two 'eids, not three:
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/09/10/in-islaam-there-are-only-two-eids-eidul-fitr-and-eidul-adhaa-by-sh-mashhoor-hasan-aal-salmaan/

Some people claim that the great Ibn Taymiyyah was for the mawlid. Is this true? click this link to find out:
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/05/13/was-ibn-taymiyyah-for-the-mawlid-celebration-of-the-prophetsaw/

What about eating the food that is distributed on the milaad? Is it lawful to eat?
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/eating-food-that-is-distributed-on-the-prophet%E2%80%99s-birthday-mawlid/

Salvation, lies in following the sunnah and not in innovated practises that were not done in the time of the prophet(saw):
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/salvation-lies-in-following-the-sunnah/

And just because majority of the people do it, it does NOT validate it (as we, and even them(!) admit, that it was not done during the lifetime of the prophet(saw)):
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2011/01/20/who-are-the-saved-sect-are-they-the-majority/

But is it good? Is it a good innovation?
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/every-innovation-is-a-misguidance/

Know, that the sunnah is sufficient for you!
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/the-sunnah-is-sufficient-for-you/

http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/imaam-al-awzaaees-advice-on-clinging-firmly-upon-the-sunnah/

And there are many evil dangers of biddah!
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/08/05/the-evil-dangers-of-bid%e2%80%99ah/

So follow the sunnah and avoid biddah:
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/commandments-of-the-imams-of-ahle-sunnah-concerning-following-the-sunnah-and-avoiding-bidah/

As Imaam Abu Haneefah (rahimahullaah) said:


“Adhere to the Athaar (narrations) and the Tareeqah (way) of the Salaf and beware of newly invented matters, for all of it is innovation.”
[Reported by As-Suyootee in Sawn al-Mantaq Wal -Kalaam, p. 32.]

It was narrated that Nooh al-Jaami’ said:


“I said to Abu Haneefah (may Allah have mercy on him), ‘What do you say about the philosophical issues that people have innovated?‘ He said, ‘That is just the words of philosophers. you should adhere to the way of the Salaf, and beware of every newly invented thing, for it is an innovation (bid’ah).“ [ Al-Khateeb in Al-Faqeeh wal-Mutafaqqih.]

Refuting the people of innovation is indeed a good deed:
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/engaging-in-ibaadah-or-speaking-about-ahl-al-bid%e2%80%99ah/

And know that there is great evil which comes about from practising biddah:
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/the-consequences-of-bidda-extremism-in-the-religion/

And know that all of the salaf warned against innovations:
http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2009/11/13/dealing-with-innovation/

MuslimSoljah
03-02-11, 05:16 PM
Round 10 begins

*ring irng*

Uthman Ibn Afan
03-02-11, 05:26 PM
On Celebrating The Prophet’s Birthday ﷺ (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?276278-On-Celebrating-The-Prophet%E2%80%99s-Birthday-%EF%B7%BA)

loonietoonie
03-02-11, 05:52 PM
Yes, Christians invented the celebration of the birth of "Jesus" and so we should also do it for Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Neither person's birth date is known.

Amazing.

Sunni Student
03-02-11, 06:15 PM
2nd Mawlid thread this year and counting...

Praise be to Allah for the immense favour of sending us the Sayyidina Muhammad, A Mercy to the Worlds, endless blessings be upon him and his family and his companions.

I can get into the debate or I can just spend that time trying to show my gratitude to Allah for the immense favour He granted us and send blessings on the Prophet :saw:. Hmm..I'll choose the latter.

:saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw: :saw:

umar gul
03-02-11, 06:54 PM
I will be celebrating proudly the birthday of the greatest creation of mankind which is our beloved PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH :up:

TheAuthenticBase
03-02-11, 07:50 PM
I will be celebrating proudly the birthday of the greatest creation of mankind which is our beloved PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH :up:

Not to sound rude, but, may I ask why?

ahmed_abdullah
03-02-11, 08:10 PM
Not to sound rude, but, may I ask why?

Why not?

mgilani
03-02-11, 08:42 PM
So someone gonna bomb this innovation procession or what?

KeeKee
03-02-11, 09:03 PM
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Assalaamu `alaykum waRahmatullahi Wabarakatoh


1) A person’s Iman is only complete once he loves Nabi صلى الله عليه و سلم more than his parents, his children and all his belongings. It is narrated in Saheeh Al-Bukhari AND Saheeh Muslim that Nabi صلى الله عليه و سلم has said,

15 - حدثنا يعقوب بن إبراهيم قال حدثنا ابن علية عن عبد العزيز بن صهيب عن أنس عن النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم (ح) . وحدثنا آدم قال حدثنا شعبة عن قتادة عن أنس قال قال النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم : ( لا يؤمن أحدكم حتى أكون أحب إليه من والده وولده والناس أجمعين )

“None of you truly believes until I am more beloved to him than his father, his children and mankind in its entirety.” (Bukhari 1/14 and Muslim 1/49)



It is firstly essential to discuss the issue of confining the mawlid to the month of Rabi al-awwal. It should be known that Allah Ta’ala has sent the Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم with a complete way of life and made him a perfect example for the believers. Allah Ta’ala said,

لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ

“Verily for you in the messenger of Allah there was a good example...” (Al Ahzab, 21)

Any action which does not confirm with the prophetic way of life will be rejected in the court of Allah as the Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم has said,



صحيح البخاري - (7 / 146 دار ابن كثير ، اليمامة - بيروت)

2550 - حدثنا يعقوب حدثنا إبراهيم بن سعد عن أبيه عن القاسم بن محمد عن عائشة رضي الله عنها قالت

: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ( من أحدث في أمرنا هذا ما ليس فيه فهو رد )



“Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours (i.e., Islaam), it will be rejected” (Saheeh Al-Bukhari 7/146, Dar Ibn Katheer)

The celebration of the mawlid is an innovation in religion. Neither was it the practice of the Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم nor did the companions or tabi’een celebrate this occasion. The great scholar, Allamah Anwar Shah Al-Kashmiri (May Allah Ta'ala be pleased with him) has said,

العرف الشذي شرح سنن الترمذي - (2 / 82 مؤسسة ضحى للنشر والتوزيع(

وأحدثه صوفي في عهد سلطان إربل سنة ( 600 ) ، ولم يكن له أصل من الشريعة الغراء

“A sufi innovated it in the era of Sultan Irbil around the year 600 A.H, and it does not have any basis in our pure Shariah.”

Scholars state that the first person to introduce the innovation (bid'a) of celebrating the Milad was the ruler of Irbil, Muzaffar ad-Din ibn Zain al-Din. This was six centuries after the period of prophet hood.

Allaamah Muizzuddin Hasan Khwaarzimi (rahmatullah alayh) states in his book, Al-Qawl al Mu’tamad,

“The Ruler of Irbal, King Muzaffar Abu Saeed Kaukari, was an irreligious and prodigal king. He ordered the scholars of his time to act according to their opinions and discard the practice of following any school of law. A group of learned men inclined towards him. He (this king) organized Mawlood sessions during the month of Rabi al Awwal. He was the first king ever to introduce this practice.”

A ‘scholar’ by the name of Abul Khattab Umar bin Hasan bin Dihya Al Andalusi supported and assisted the king in this innovation.


Allamah Ibn Kathir (May Allah Ta'ala have mercy on him) has reported on the authority of As-Sabt about this person,

البداية والنهاية - (13 / 169دار إحياء التراث العربي)

قال السبط: وقد كان كابن عنين في ثلب المسلمين والوقيعة فيهم، ويتزيد في كلامه فترك الناس الرواية عنه وكذبوه


“Ibn Unain (Ibn Dihya) used to insult the Muslims and vilify them. He would make additions in his report and exaggerate. The people stopped narrating traditions from him and falsified him.” (Al-Bidaya wa al-Nihaya, 3/144-146)

Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani (May Allah Ta'ala have mercy on him) has commented on him,



لسان الميزان - (4 / 296مؤسسة الأعلمي للمطبوعات – بيروت)

وكان ظاهري المذهب كثير الوقيعة في الأئمة وفي السلف من العلماء خبيث اللسان أحمق شديد الكبر قليل النظر في أمور الدين متهاونا


“He was a follower of the Zahiri school of thought and often slandered the scholars and the scholars of the past. He possessed an evil tongue and was stupid, self-conceited, lacked insight in religious matters, and looked down upon religion.” (Lisan al-Mizan, 4/296)

From the afore-mentioned it becomes apparent which type of people innovated the celebration of the mawlid. The companions loved the Prophet the most yet they did not celebrate the mawlid. They remained alive after him for about a century, but despite their unparalleled and profound love towards the Holy Prophet (Peace and salutations be on him), they never celebrated his birthday. If the mawlid was a meritorious and divinely inspired act, then surely Rasulullah would have commanded the Ummah to celebrate it, or at least, either he or his noble Companions would have practiced on it. Since it cannot be substantiated by any action of theirs, it becomes crystal clear that celebrating the mawlid has absolutely no relationship with Islam and it is Bidáh (innovation).

Furthermore, there are numerous other vices which take place at a mawlid. Music, intermingling of sexes, squandering of wealth, omitting compulsory prayers etc. are just few of the many wrongs which takes place on such occasions. Moreover, the Celebration of the mawlid is an imitation of the Christians, who celebrate the birth of the Messiah (peace be upon him).

In light of the above, it will not be permissible to celebrate the mawlid even if a person beliefs that the Prophet is not present. Muslims should rather strive to revive the Sunnah and put an end to bid’ah (innovation); they should not do any action until they know the ruling of Allaah concerning it.

If gatherings are conducted at a random in which the love of Nabi صلى الله عليه و سلم is discussed and people are encouraged to follow the Sunnah, then that is permissible on condition there is nothing un-Islamic in such gatherings.



This ruling is derived from the following narration of Saheeh Al-Bukhari and Saheeh Muslim,

6539 - حدثنا عمرو الناقد وإسحاق بن إبراهيم وابن أبى عمر كلهم عن سفيان قال عمرو حدثنا سفيان بن عيينة عن الزهرى عن سعيد عن أبى هريرة أن عمر مر بحسان وهو ينشد الشعر فى المسجد فلحظ إليه فقال قد كنت أنشد وفيه من هو خير منك. (متفق عليه)



Abu Hurairah narrates, “Umar once passed by Hassaan who was saying poetry in the Masjid. He glanced angrily towards Hassaan. Hassaan responded, “I used to say poetry and in the Masjid there used to be one who is greater than you (meaning Nabi صلى الله عليه و سلم).” (Bukhari and Muslim)

And Allah knows best

Wassalam

Ml. Ismail Moosa,
Student Darul Iftaa

Checked and Approved by:

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Darul Iftaa, Madrassah In'aamiyyah

NGE
03-02-11, 09:21 PM
:salams

I don't see exactly how the mawlid celebrators can argue with the above post. Nabi :saw: perfected our religion for us and commanded us to not add anything to it. Mawlid celebrators would tell you that this act is compulsory, despite the fact that the salaf and tabi'een did not not practice it. Therefore, these two statements are contradictory. One cannot be true without the other being untrue.

So we can take the word of our Nabi :saw: who told us to not add anything to our deen or we can follow the ones who advocate mawlid celebration.

Allah Knows Best.

Sunni Student
03-02-11, 09:24 PM
Is it really needed to start copy pasting all the fatwas against Mawlid? You will get those for it and those against it.

I have an endless collection of such Fatwas. So lets not go down that road.

NGE
03-02-11, 09:27 PM
Should Muslims not command the good and forbid the evil?

Khalid b. Walid
03-02-11, 09:30 PM
Round 10 begins

*ring irng*

More like Round 275462

PakiBaz
03-02-11, 09:32 PM
i guess it depends if split bidah into good and bad

Ibadah
03-02-11, 09:32 PM
The nabi (saw) never celebrated his birthday, so why should we? What good would it do, to thank Allah (swt)? Well shouldnt that be done everyday and not a specific day. Do you celebrate your own birthdays which is classed haraam, why should the nabi (Saw) be any different.

Dont understand the people who do this, bida'a Allahu Alam.

PakiBaz
03-02-11, 09:35 PM
Imam Nawawi writes that there are certain types of Bid’ah. Two of them are Bid’ah Sayyiah and Bid’ah Hasanah. Bid’ah sayyiah is a Bid’ah that opposes the Qur’an and sunnah and Bidah Hasanah is a Bid’ah that is not against the Qur’an or Sunnah. For example:
To invent the usool (principle) of Hadeeth, usool of Fiqh, usool of Tafsir etc.
[Tahzeeb al Asma wal lughaat word Bid’ah by Imam Nawawi]

.mirror.
03-02-11, 09:41 PM
So, I was listening to an aalim on Tv, and he said that you won't find anywhere in any hadith where the Sahabas prohibited the celebration of Mawlid.
Plus, he can give you many reason to celebrate his birthday.

Just throwing it out there.

PakiBaz
03-02-11, 09:55 PM
Imaam ‘Abdur Rahmaan Ibn al-Jawzi [rahimhahullah] Tablees Iblees said in his Tablees Iblees:

“Bid’ah…refers to something which did not exist and was then invented. And, in most cases, innovations conflict with divine law by implying a need for human additions or deletions. Even an invented practice which did not contradict the Sharee’ah or imply any change was disliked by the majority of early scholars. They used to avoid any innovation, even though some types were allowable…It is thus, clear that that the early generation of Muslims cautiously avoided all innovations which even had the remotest connection to the religion for fear of changing the religion to the slightest degree. However, there were some new practices which did not contradict the Sharee’ah or change it; these practices were allowed”

Tablees Iblees, translated by Bilal Philips, p.21-23, al-Hidaayah Publishing. Arabic Edition, see p. 37 onwards What can we deduce from this statement?

1. Innovations conflict with divine law in most cases, but not in all cases.

2. Innovations that did not conflict with divine law were disliked, although not forbidden.

3. They were disliked by the majority of the Salaf, indicating that some from amongst the Salaf actually opined innovations that did not conflict with divine law as good [bid’ah hasanaah].

4. It is solely the choice of an individual Muslim to avoid “bid’ah hasanaah” as this is a valid position and there is also merit in avoiding innovations for the sake of Allah, a Muslim should not feel bound to practice such and such due to the customs of his people.

5. Those innovations that did not contradict the Shari’ah in any form or fashion were allowed, not forbidden.

6. When confronted with any practice seemingly new, we should ask ourselves “how does it contradict the Shari’ah?”

TheAuthenticBase
03-02-11, 09:59 PM
Why not?

Well akhee, bcz the prophet didnt celebrate his birthday, nor did the companions, nor did the taabi'een, nor did the taba-taabi'eem, nor did imam abu haneefah, nor did imam malik, nor did imam ash-shaafi'ee, nor did imaam ahmad, nor did imam bukharee, nor did imam muslim, nor did at-tirmidhee, an-nisaa'ee, aboo daawood, ibn majah etc.

NO1 did it for the first 600/700 years!!!

and they (the sahaabahs) loved the prophet (saw) more than we could ever do...

TheAuthenticBase
03-02-11, 10:00 PM
i guess it depends if split bidah into good and bad

http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/every-innovation-is-a-misguidance/

This question u raised was answered in my first post!

The Prophet (saw) said:


“…Beware of newly invented matters, for every invented matter is an innovation and every innovation is a going astray, and every going astray is in Hell-fire.” (1)

Likewise ‘Abdullaah Ibn Mas’ood – may Allaah have mercy upon him - said:


“Follow and do not innovate, for indeed you have been sufficed, and every innovation is misguidance.” (2)

Also, Ibn ‘Umar (ra) mentioned:


“Every biddah is a misguidance, even if the people see it as something good.” (3)

Footnotes:

(1) Abu Dawud and At-Tirmidhi

(2) Saheeh. Reported in Ahmad in Az-Zuhd p. 162, Ad-Daarimee (no. 211), Al-Bayhaqee in Madkhal (no. 204), Wakee’ in Az-Zuhd (no. 315), Ibnut-Tararaanee in As-Sunnah (no. 104), Ibn Nasr in As-Sunnah (p. 23) and by Mujaahid in As-Sab’ah (p. 46)

(3) Related by Ad-Darimee, Abu Shamaah (no. 39), Ibn Nasr in as-Sunnah (no. 82), al-Laalikaa’ee in Sharh Usoolul-Ftiqaad (no. 126) & Sharh I’tiqad Ahl as-Sunnah (1/92), and by al-Bayhaqee in al-Madkhal (no. 191). Its authentic; Ahkaam al-Janaa’iz (258) and Islah al-Masajid (13). Salim Al-Hilaali said: “Its isnaad (chain of narration) is as authentic as the sun!“

TheAuthenticBase
03-02-11, 10:01 PM
Imam Nawawi writes that there are certain types of Bid’ah. Two of them are Bid’ah Sayyiah and Bid’ah Hasanah. Bid’ah sayyiah is a Bid’ah that opposes the Qur’an and sunnah and Bidah Hasanah is a Bid’ah that is not against the Qur’an or Sunnah. For example:
To invent the usool (principle) of Hadeeth, usool of Fiqh, usool of Tafsir etc.
[Tahzeeb al Asma wal lughaat word Bid’ah by Imam Nawawi]

usool al-fiqh, usool at-tafseer etc, ALL have their foundation in the sunnah.

For example usool al-hadeeth has its roots in the hadeeth whoich states, "He who lies upon me, let him take his seat in hell" and the ayah "when news comes to u, check it up b4 u pass it on"

but as 4 milaad, there is NO PRROF WHATSOEVER...

PakiBaz
04-02-11, 07:16 AM
usool al-fiqh, usool at-tafseer etc, ALL have their foundation in the sunnah.

For example usool al-hadeeth has its roots in the hadeeth whoich states, "He who lies upon me, let him take his seat in hell" and the ayah "when news comes to u, check it up b4 u pass it on"

but as 4 milaad, there is NO PRROF WHATSOEVER...

the mawlid does a basis in the sunnah, all that happens is quran is recited, durood is sent and a speech is said on the life of the Prophet(sallahu alayhi wasallam)

PakiBaz
04-02-11, 07:17 AM
Wa sharrul Umoori Muhdathaatuhaa, Wa kulla Bid'atin dhaialah, wa kulla dhalatin fin-naar" Al-Hadith (Sahih Muslim). Translation of the above Hadith: Every innovation is a misguidance and every misguidance goes to Hell fire.

IMAM SHAFI'S EXPLANATION OF THE ABOVE HADITH:
Kullu bida'tin daiala: "Every innovation is a misguidance"? Doesn't the term "every" include all innovations?" Such an objection stems from the misinterpretation of the term kull ("every") in the Hadith to be all encompassing without exception, whereas in Arabic it may mean "Nearly all" or "the vast majority." This is how al-Shafi'i understood it or else he would have never allowed for any innovation whatsoever to be considered good, and he is considered a hujja or "Proof," that is, reference without peer for questions regarding the Arabic language. The stylistic figure of meaning the part by the whole, or nechdoche in English is in Arabic: 'abbara 'an al-kathratf bi at-kulliyya. This is illustrated by the use of kull in the following verse 46:25 of the Quran in a selective or partial sense not a universal sense:
"Destroying all things by commandment of its Lord. And morning found them so that naught could be seen save their dwellings". Thus, the dwellings were not destroyed although "all" things had been destroyed. "All" here means specifically the lives of the unbelievers of 'Ad and their properties except their houses.

ahmed_abdullah
04-02-11, 09:10 AM
Well akhee, bcz the prophet didnt celebrate his birthday, nor did the companions, nor did the taabi'een, nor did the taba-taabi'eem, nor did imam abu haneefah, nor did imam malik, nor did imam ash-shaafi'ee, nor did imaam ahmad, nor did imam bukharee, nor did imam muslim, nor did at-tirmidhee, an-nisaa'ee, aboo daawood, ibn majah etc.

NO1 did it for the first 600/700 years!!!

and they (the sahaabahs) loved the prophet (saw) more than we could ever do...

Are you sure that syeddina rasulullah salellahualaihiwasalam didn't celebrated his birthday?

al faqeer
04-02-11, 09:17 AM
ROFL !

this is gonna be a ball , Ok my turn its not Bidah period since we celebrate it right round the year , and only one sect within Islam thinks it bidah and they are Hanbali salafi's who have not categorized Bidah into two :D .

SaeedK
04-02-11, 09:20 AM
There is ikhtilaf on this matter. Leave it to Allah (SWT) on the Day of Judgement to correct the matter. In a world where Muslims are dying on a daily basis lets tackle this problem first. This post reminds me of a time in our history when the mongols were ransacking the Khilafah and a man comes to an ulema and asks him the hukm regarding the killing of a fly.

al faqeer
04-02-11, 09:20 AM
usool al-fiqh, usool at-tafseer etc, ALL have their foundation in the sunnah.

For example usool al-hadeeth has its roots in the hadeeth whoich states, "He who lies upon me, let him take his seat in hell" and the ayah "when news comes to u, check it up b4 u pass it on"

but as 4 milaad, there is NO PRROF WHATSOEVER...

You dont know what you are talking about mate , you will be refuted in your own thread , you should have checked if this was discussed b4 or not and learned from your brethrens mistakes .

Mawlid Has roots within Islam sweet and simple , in Mawlid we read Quran , Seerah , and poetry and then maybe have a meal .

Is reading quran not part of Sunnah ? Is teaching the seerah not what the Sa7aaba did ? and poetry ? ever hear of Hasaan bin Thaabit ?

al faqeer
04-02-11, 09:21 AM
There is ikhtilaf on this matter. Leave it to Allah (SWT) on the Day of Judgement to correct the matter. In a world where Muslims are dying on a daily basis lets tackle this problem first. This post reminds me of a time in our history when the mongols were ransacking the Khilafah and a man comes to an ulema and asks him the hukm regarding the killing of a fly.

Well the guy who started the post has to be put on his place Inshallah .

TheAuthenticBase
04-02-11, 10:34 AM
Wa sharrul Umoori Muhdathaatuhaa, Wa kulla Bid'atin dhaialah, wa kulla dhalatin fin-naar" Al-Hadith (Sahih Muslim). Translation of the above Hadith: Every innovation is a misguidance and every misguidance goes to Hell fire.

IMAM SHAFI'S EXPLANATION OF THE ABOVE HADITH:
Kullu bida'tin daiala: "Every innovation is a misguidance"? Doesn't the term "every" include all innovations?" Such an objection stems from the misinterpretation of the term kull ("every") in the Hadith to be all encompassing without exception, whereas in Arabic it may mean "Nearly all" or "the vast majority." This is how al-Shafi'i understood it or else he would have never allowed for any innovation whatsoever to be considered good, and he is considered a hujja or "Proof," that is, reference without peer for questions regarding the Arabic language. The stylistic figure of meaning the part by the whole, or nechdoche in English is in Arabic: 'abbara 'an al-kathratf bi at-kulliyya. This is illustrated by the use of kull in the following verse 46:25 of the Quran in a selective or partial sense not a universal sense:
"Destroying all things by commandment of its Lord. And morning found them so that naught could be seen save their dwellings". Thus, the dwellings were not destroyed although "all" things had been destroyed. "All" here means specifically the lives of the unbelievers of 'Ad and their properties except their houses.

A general verse can have 3 implications. Please read this article:

HOWEVER, WHAT IS THE PROOF TO SAY KULL DOESNT MEAN KULL IN THE ABOVE HADEETH?


The ‘Aamm (general) verse in the Quraan may be divided into three main categories in relationship to the context of the verses in which they occur and the laws and principles which were intended.

First: The General Verse Maintaining Its General:
This is where the general verse remains general. An example of such a verse is:

“…And Allaah knows all [kull] things.” [4:176]

Likewise the verse:

“Your mothers [ummuhaatukum] have been made forbidden [in marriage] to you…” [4:23]

As there are no exceptions to these verses, they remain general without no specifications or exceptions.

Second: The Figurative ‘Aamm:
This is where the general verse is only figurative, in which the general meaning of the verse was never intended. An example of such a verse is:

“Those to whome the people [an-naas] said, ‘The people [an-naas] have gathered against you, so fear them’.” [3:173]

The first expression of “the people” refers specifically to Nu’aym ibn Mas’ood, while the second expression of “the people” refers to Aboo Sufyaan and the Quraysh army, and not the generality which the expression implies.

Third: The Specified ‘Aamm:
This is where the genrality of the ‘Aamm expression is qualified by one of the specific words or phrases. An example of such a verse is:

“…Hajj to the house [the Ka'bah] is an obligation to Allaah on all people [an-naas] who are able to find a way there…” [3"97]

The generality of “all people” has been specified by the condition that it is only for those people who can carry out the task (financially and physically).

[Usool At-Tafseer, by Bilal Philips, Pp. 268-270]

HOWEVER, WHAT IS THE PROOF TO SAY KULL DOESNT MEAN KULL IN THE ABOVE HADEETH?

Furthermore, if such was true (what u said) THEN WHY DIDNT IMAAM ASH-SHAAFI'EE DO THE MILAAD?!?!?!

TheAuthenticBase
04-02-11, 10:38 AM
Are you sure that syeddina rasulullah salellahualaihiwasalam didn't celebrated his birthday?

Sure as sure can be my beloved brother...

Even those who 'celebrate' the prophet (saw)'s birthday themselves with say that he 9saw) never done nothing like this (what they do).

As Ibn Katheer mentions, it was introduced around 600/700 years AFTER the death of the Prophet (saw).

Imaam Aboo haneefah didnt celebrate the prophets birthday, nor did imam malik, nor did imam ash-shaafi'ee, nor did imam ahmad, nor did imam bukhaaree, nor did aboo bakr, umar, uthman, ali, NO-ONE did for the first 600/700 years in ISlaam...

TheAuthenticBase
04-02-11, 10:41 AM
ROFL !

this is gonna be a ball , Ok my turn its not Bidah period since we celebrate it right round the year , and only one sect within Islam thinks it bidah and they are Hanbali salafi's who have not categorized Bidah into two :D .

Akhe, did u read the article above?

GRRRRR!!!!!

Read this link: http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/every-innovation-is-a-misguidance/

(THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOOD BIDD'AH:

The Prophet (saw) said:


“…Beware of newly invented matters, for every invented matter is an innovation and every innovation is a going astray, and every going astray is in Hell-fire.” (1)

‘Abdullaah Ibn Mas’ood – may Allaah have mercy upon him - said:


“Follow and do not innovate, for indeed you have been sufficed, and every innovation is misguidance.” (2)

Ibn ‘Umar (ra) mentioned:


“Every biddah is a misguidance, even if the people see it as something good.” (3)

And then some people bring ‘proof’ from the khalaf saying there is something as ‘good biddah’?

TheAuthenticBase
04-02-11, 10:43 AM
You dont know what you are talking about mate , you will be refuted in your own thread , you should have checked if this was discussed b4 or not and learned from your brethrens mistakes .

Mawlid Has roots within Islam sweet and simple , in Mawlid we read Quran , Seerah , and poetry and then maybe have a meal .

Is reading quran not part of Sunnah ? Is teaching the seerah not what the Sa7aaba did ? and poetry ? ever hear of Hasaan bin Thaabit ?

Yes my bro, all of these things (reading quran etc) is good, but where did the milaad come from?

Plus, if celebrating the prophet(saw)'s birthday is good, WHY DIDNT THE SAHAABAH DO IT?

Simple

muslimnation
04-02-11, 11:00 AM
Time for all the brelwis and mawlid defenders to come out of the shadows and defend this bidah. may I add it is horrible to see people add a pagan ritual/celebration and combine it with Islam.

Allah perfected this deen for us. Now we have perverts defending it using their whims and desires.

Context of Perverts = Don't see anything wrong with using a Pagan celebration in the name of Islam.

al faqeer
04-02-11, 11:03 AM
Yes my bro, all of these things (reading quran etc) is good, but where did the milaad come from?

Plus, if celebrating the prophet(saw)'s birthday is good, WHY DIDNT THE SAHAABAH DO IT?

Simple

The Sahaabah Didnt have to do it , because they were with the prophet :) صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم but we were not and we live in a time when we need this sort of Dhikr .

ahmed_abdullah
04-02-11, 11:10 AM
Sure as sure can be my beloved brother...

Even those who 'celebrate' the prophet (saw)'s birthday themselves with say that he 9saw) never done nothing like this (what they do).

As Ibn Katheer mentions, it was introduced around 600/700 years AFTER the death of the Prophet (saw).

Imaam Aboo haneefah didnt celebrate the prophets birthday, nor did imam malik, nor did imam ash-shaafi'ee, nor did imam ahmad, nor did imam bukhaaree, nor did aboo bakr, umar, uthman, ali, NO-ONE did for the first 600/700 years in ISlaam...

Abu Qatada al-Ansari narrates in Sahih Muslim, Kitab as-siyam, that the Prophet salellahualaihiwasalam was asked about the fast of Monday( rasulallah salellahualaihiwasalam used to fast on Monday), and he answered: "That is the day that I was born and that is the day I received the prophecy."

Please leave your comment on this alim.

TheAuthenticBase
04-02-11, 11:19 AM
Abu Qatada al-Ansari narrates in Sahih Muslim, Kitab as-siyam, that the Prophet salellahualaihiwasalam was asked about the fast of Monday( rasulallah salellahualaihiwasalam used to fast on Monday), and he answered: "That is the day that I was born and that is the day I received the prophecy."

Please leave your comment on this alim.

Oh wow, what is this? Oh wait a min, the prophet (saw) is FASTING on the day he was born (and recieved revelation)... Oh wow, i wonder how many of these people fast EVERY MONDAY? Hmmm....

Oh whats that? they Dont?

Well thats quite pathetic of them isnt it?

The prophet (saw) fasted EVERY monday, but we biddah people cant do that, thats too much for us, oh I know, lets just go out on the streets for one day!

PATHETIC!

TheAuthenticBase
04-02-11, 11:20 AM
Abu Qatada al-Ansari narrates in Sahih Muslim, Kitab as-siyam, that the Prophet salellahualaihiwasalam was asked about the fast of Monday( rasulallah salellahualaihiwasalam used to fast on Monday), and he answered: "That is the day that I was born and that is the day I received the prophecy."

Please leave your comment on this alim.

Now u give me ur explanation Mr. shaykh ul biddah

Ibadah
04-02-11, 11:21 AM
You dont know what you are talking about mate , you will be refuted in your own thread , you should have checked if this was discussed b4 or not and learned from your brethrens mistakes .

Mawlid Has roots within Islam sweet and simple , in Mawlid we read Quran , Seerah , and poetry and then maybe have a meal .

Is reading quran not part of Sunnah ? Is teaching the seerah not what the Sa7aaba did ? and poetry ? ever hear of Hasaan bin Thaabit ?

Is celebrating the nabi (saw) bday sunnah? show me a hadith that states this. Cant you read the Qur'an or teach the seerah all year round, so why pick out one day. Do you know more then the nabi (saw), wouldnt the nabi (saw) tell us to celebrate this if it was good in it?

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us of the danger of not obeying him, and the danger of adding to what he brought. The celebration of Mawlid or his birthday is indeed an addition to what he brought – as all the scholars agree. He said: “The best of speech is the Book of Allaah, and the best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad. The most evil of things are those which are newly-invented (in religion), and every innovation is a going astray.” (Reported by Muslim and al-Nisaa’i).

Also nabi (saw) was in Medina and he found people celebrating one particular day, nabi (saw) asked them why do you celebrate it? And the people replied we been doing this for years and we do this annually, nabi (saw) denied them celebrating it and said we have only 2 feast and those the 2 eids inshaAllah.

The celebration of Al-Mawlid is a reprehensible Bid’ah and its celebrators have strayed away from the truth, because the religion of Allah is complete and perfect. Allah says that which translates as: "This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed my favour upon you and have approved for you Islam as a religion." (Al-Maa’idah: 3).

Believing that the night of the Prophet’s birth is better than the night of decree, or Al-Qadr as ruled by Al-Qastallaani, may Allaah have mercy upon him but Mullaa ‘Ali Qaari, may Allaah have mercy upon him refuted him by saying: "What Al-Qastallaani said is strange and unacceptable because Allaah has told us about the virtue of the night of Al-Qadr in the Qur’aan, Allaah says (that which translates as): “The Night of Decree is better than a thousand months” (Al-Qadr: 3) yet there is no evidence proving the virtue of the Prophet’s birthday in the Qur’aan, Sunnah or by any of the Muslim scholars."

Did the nabi (Saw) celebrate our father Ibrahim (as) or Isa (as) or even his own mawlid? No he did not, did the sahaba (ra) who loved him more then us celebrate his mawlid? No, so isnt this bida'a?

If you want to celebrate his mawlid then fast every monday.

Btw the nabi (saw) died on the 12th of Rabbee' Al-Awwal, and the authentic opinion of scholars say that he was born on the 9th and died on the 12th, so when you celebrate it on the 12th do you celebrate his death?

samin62
04-02-11, 11:23 AM
^you will go around circles chasing him while he runs from you.

NGE
04-02-11, 11:29 AM
^^ You're probably right, Allahu Alam.

But insha'Allah, there is barakah for the one who spreads truth and denounces falsehood even if no one takes heed.

haji_habib
04-02-11, 11:44 AM
so in a consensus manner,do we have to celebrate or leave it alone?

Sunni Student
04-02-11, 12:16 PM
Now u give me ur explanation Mr. shaykh ul biddah

First of all if you are going to defend or refute something for the deen then at least adopt the adhab of doing so.

Secondly there have been many many many threads were all of these points have been discussed time and time again, so these additional threads do not serve the purpose of forbidding evil and commanding good as one may assume, rather they only act as ego boosters.

Lastly the only note I will add on the actual topic is that since the establishment of this practice up untill the Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab era, which is a time frame of almost 600 years, only a handful have rejected this practice completley, such as Ibn Taymiyyah.

Others such as Imam Suyyuti, Ibn Hajar asqalani, Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Imam Shawkani etc... have favoured it. If you are not aware of this look it up, they did not do so without any basis rather they derived the ruling of its permissability from Quran and Sunnah. One example of this is Ibn Hajar al Asqalani using the Sahih Hadith of Bukhari and Muslim when the Prophet :saw: came to Madinah on the 10th of Muharram and found the jews fasting due to the significance of that day. Which Ibn Hajar cites as being evidence for thanking Allah for a favour that occured on a specific day.

We all know that despite these scholars accepting the Mawlid those that reject still take from the treasures of their works such as Ibn Hajars famous commentry of Sahih Bukhari, and even Imam Suyutis Tafseer Jalalayn.

For a more nuteral perspective of the Mawlid refer to this Islamonline.net fatwa which by no means is a Sufi or pro Sufi source.

Shaykh Qardawi and Shaykh Atiyyah Saqr on Mawlid (http://www.sunnah.org/ibadaat/islamonline_mawlid_fatwa.htm)

Those that celebrate let them do so, and those that do not let them not, only the ignorant will argue Mawlid celebrations are an obligation and I am yet to come across any scholarly reference indicating this.

ahmed_abdullah
04-02-11, 01:36 PM
Oh wow, what is this? Oh wait a min, the prophet (saw) is FASTING on the day he was born (and recieved revelation)... Oh wow, i wonder how many of these people fast EVERY MONDAY? Hmmm....

Oh whats that? they Dont?

Well thats quite pathetic of them isnt it?

The prophet (saw) fasted EVERY monday, but we biddah people cant do that, thats too much for us, oh I know, lets just go out on the streets for one day!

PATHETIC!



Please state your point clearly.

The alim of deen do not negate any sunnah and appreciate it.They appreciate and cherish it to follow as much as they can.If they can leave a beard, then they try to leave it as it is but at times they shape but still they keep or rather marrying 4 wives atleast they marry 1 wife or rather they don't have all the adab that rasulullah salellahualaihiwasalam has but atleast they try and manage to keep the adab as much they can possibly.But they do not negate instead they appreciatiate and practise it.

If rasulullah salellahualaihiwasalam fasted on monday, as declared reason was because monday was birthday and the day of receiving prophecy.Considering the fact that Allah also bless the world on the birthday of rasulullah salellahualaihiwasalam.Syeddina habiballah salellahualaihiwasalam is the rahmah of Allah and one should thank Allah for it.Be it on any day or any month.If you can't fast on every monday, then atleast fast in the month of rajab, if you can't fast on the monday's of rajab then atleast fast a single day in the month rajab.

If at all you just cannot fast, then atleast be in the company of those who do dikhr of Allah in the whole year, if not then in the month of rajab if not then atleast one day in the month of rajab remembering your prophet syeddina rasulullah salellahulaihiwasalam's hidyah.

This is according to sunnah of syeddina rasulallah salellahualaihiwasalam and one should strive for the bounties from Allah.Either on any occasion,tafseer ul quran can be read or taught on any day,seerah al mubaraka salellahualaihiwasalam can be taught on any day,shifah al dawah can be spoken on any day,fasting can be done on any day and so forth the righteous deeds can be performed on any day until it does not go against the shariah.

TheAuthenticBase
04-02-11, 09:03 PM
so in a consensus manner,do we have to celebrate or leave it alone?

Be a 'sunni' and leave it alone... *smile*

Ismail Simjee
04-02-11, 09:06 PM
Please state your point clearly.

The alim of deen do not negate any sunnah and appreciate it.They appreciate and cherish it to follow as much as they can.If they can leave a beard, then they try to leave it as it is but at times they shape but still they keep or rather marrying 4 wives atleast they marry 1 wife or rather they don't have all the adab that rasulullah salellahualaihiwasalam has but atleast they try and manage to keep the adab as much they can possibly.But they do not negate instead they appreciatiate and practise it.

If rasulullah salellahualaihiwasalam fasted on monday, as declared reason was because monday was birthday and the day of receiving prophecy.Considering the fact that Allah also bless the world on the birthday of rasulullah salellahualaihiwasalam.Syeddina habiballah salellahualaihiwasalam is the rahmah of Allah and one should thank Allah for it.Be it on any day or any month.If you can't fast on every monday, then atleast fast in the month of rajab, if you can't fast on the monday's of rajab then atleast fast a single day in the month rajab.

If at all you just cannot fast, then atleast be in the company of those who do dikhr of Allah in the whole year, if not then in the month of rajab if not then atleast one day in the month of rajab remembering your prophet syeddina rasulullah salellahulaihiwasalam's hidyah.

This is according to sunnah of syeddina rasulallah salellahualaihiwasalam and one should strive for the bounties from Allah.Either on any occasion,tafseer ul quran can be read or taught on any day,seerah al mubaraka salellahualaihiwasalam can be taught on any day,shifah al dawah can be spoken on any day,fasting can be done on any day and so forth the righteous deeds can be performed on any day until it does not go against the shariah.

Excuse me, but our Nabi, saw, fasted on Thursday too. And so did his companions and so do a large majority of muslims all over the world. That does not mean we celebrate his birthday.

TheAuthenticBase
04-02-11, 09:07 PM
If you can't fast on every monday, then atleast fast in the month of rajab, if you can't fast on the monday's of rajab then atleast fast a single day in the month rajab.

There is no Proof for what u said here^

SubhaanAllaah!

ahmed_abdullah
04-02-11, 09:07 PM
Excuse me, but our Nabi, saw, fasted on Thursday too. And so did his companions and so do a large majority of muslims all over the world. That does not mean we celebrate his birthday.

If you look into the reasons of fasting on thursday and monday.May be you will find your answer.I am not any alim, ask "theauthenticbase" he knows all the ahadith maybe he is a scholar.

ahmed_abdullah
04-02-11, 09:09 PM
There is no Proof for what u said here^

SubhaanAllaah!

Subhaanallah atleast you noticed,I thought I am speaking to myself.

Okay Inshallah, i will give you a proof to it.But if I prove it, will you agree with my whole left over passages of post?

TheAuthenticBase
04-02-11, 09:09 PM
One example of this is Ibn Hajar al Asqalani using the Sahih Hadith of Bukhari and Muslim when the Prophet came to Madinah on the 10th of Muharram and found the jews fasting due to the significance of that day. Which Ibn Hajar cites as being evidence for thanking Allah for a favour that occured on a specific day.

Strange how the sahaabah never thought of this^....

I follow the understanding of the sahaabah (Aka; the salaf)
You obviously follow the understanding of the khalaf (later generations)

i wonder which of the two are more closer to the truth in their understanding? Hmmm...

ahmed_abdullah
04-02-11, 09:18 PM
Strange how the sahaabah never thought of this^....

I follow the understanding of the sahaabah (Aka; the salaf)
You obviously follow the understanding of the khalaf (later generations)

i wonder which of the two are more closer to the truth in their understanding? Hmmm...

What understanding do you posses, when compared with the understanding of the later generations.


what understanding do the later generations posses, when compared with the understanding of the earlier generations,and it goes up till the sahabah.

If you remove the later generations, you are deviated.Thus think before what you speak.

Note:-Even if you claim to posses the understanding of the sahabah.You would still have nil.Because better than you are the later generations from every way and every manner.Since you are introducing this, it is bid'ah which you are doing.So every bid'ah in Islam is considered wrong? (by your own rules)

As you are introducing new rules in Islam which include negating the congregation of muslimeen (against shariah).This was done since longtime, but you are negating it now.

Your negativity is new, but the positive is since longtime ago.You are doing bid'ah.

Fais
04-02-11, 09:19 PM
Strange how the sahaabah never thought of this^....

I follow the understanding of the sahaabah (Aka; the salaf)
You obviously follow the understanding of the khalaf (later generations)

i wonder which of the two are more closer to the truth in their understanding? Hmmm...

lol ... Thats funny.

Anyways, i just want to know what exactly is your issue with the Mawlid.

Jannah101
04-02-11, 10:07 PM
i heard the prophet (s) celebrated his birthday by fasting on mondays and thursdays right? so why not just do that? ive seen people (mainly pakistanis) celebrate it and for some reason they are running around with the pakistan flag and theres like a massive march thing...

i agree with authenticbas - we follow the example of the prophet (s) and the sahaba - theres no record of sahaba doing this, then why should we?

If you really love the prophet (s) then follow him completely.
its sad that bid'ah has become sunnah these days and sunnah has become a bid'ah

KeeKee
04-02-11, 10:10 PM
so he has two birthdays, monday and thursday? :scratch:

inculcating the sunnah into our everyday lives is what hubb e rasool really is. not one day a year, the sahaba and the scholars in the past never celebrated mawlid.

IbnulQayyim
04-02-11, 10:11 PM
I follow the understanding of the sahaabah (Aka; the salaf)
You obviously follow the understanding of the khalaf (later generations)



:salams

I was initially not going to post on any threads related to Mawlid but AuthenticBase prove to me Saheeh Bukhaari is the Most Authentic Book after Allaah. My condition is prove it from the Salaf, not the Khalaf. You do not follow the Khalaf as you shadowed, so prove it from the Salaf that Saheeh Bukhaari is an Authentic compilation.

Fais
04-02-11, 10:16 PM
i agree with authenticbas - we follow the example of the prophet (s) and the sahaba - theres no record of sahaba doing this, then why should we?


There is no record of them doing what exactly, what exactly are you objecting too ..

Jannah101
04-02-11, 10:17 PM
so he has two birthdays, monday and thursday? :scratch:

inculcating the sunnah into our everyday lives is what hubb e rasool really is. not one day a year, the sahaba and the scholars in the past never celebrated mawlid.

i got 2 hadith mixed up...lol

Fais
04-02-11, 10:18 PM
so he has two birthdays, monday and thursday? :scratch:

inculcating the sunnah into our everyday lives is what hubb e rasool really is. not one day a year, the sahaba and the scholars in the past never celebrated mawlid.

Who said anything about one day a year? Is there an official Mawlid Committee that came together to decide thats it one day in a year? Or one month in a year?

Jannah101
04-02-11, 10:19 PM
There is no record of them doing what exactly, what exactly are you objecting too ..

celebrating the prophet's (s) birthday..? i dont remember reading anywhere when Abu bakr (ra) or umar (ra) or uthman (ra) orr ali (ra) were in power, that they practiced this to show their love for the prophet (s).

KeeKee
04-02-11, 10:22 PM
celebrating mawlid is a bid'ah, so no point skating around it akhee. you decide to hold a seerah conference around the time fair enough, with the intention to educate people on the issue and encourage them to follow the sunnah. but to say you celebrate mawlid, and hold gatherings with the intention of celebrating mawlid, is wrong. before anyone brings about some long post about some aalim celebrating this bid'ah, give us a reference in which th sahaba or tabi'een celebrated this. as for what i think one person said, there is nothing in the sunnah or hadeeth to prohibit this, i would say no there isn't, because the sunnah already establishes we don't celebrate birthdays, our own or that of rasul allah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam so that answers that.

Jannah101
04-02-11, 10:22 PM
:salams

I was initially not going to post on any threads related to Mawlid but AuthenticBase prove to me Saheeh Bukhaari is the Most Authentic Book after Allaah. My condition is prove it from the Salaf, not the Khalaf. You do not follow the Khalaf as you shadowed, so prove it from the Salaf that Saheeh Bukhaari is an Authentic compilation.



wasnt bukhari from 3rd generation?

IbnulQayyim
04-02-11, 10:24 PM
Who said anything about one day a year? Is there an official Mawlid Committee that came together to decide thats it one day in a year? Or one month in a year?

No some people make it such which makes the Mawlid participation a Bid'ah.

Fais
04-02-11, 10:26 PM
celebrating the prophet's (s) birthday..? i dont remember reading anywhere when Abu bakr (ra) or umar (ra) or uthman (ra) orr ali (ra) were in power, that they practiced this to show their love for the prophet (s).

And what is celebrating his :saw: birthday?

A big cake wtih 1400+ candles on it? Balloons? Party poppers?

Because ive never been to such a Mawlid.

Because all the Mawlids ive been to is just a mixture of Quran, Seerah, Shama'il .. some poetry praising Allah (SWT) and the Prophet :saw: ...

So what out of that do you have a problem with?

IbnulQayyim
04-02-11, 10:26 PM
celebrating mawlid is a bid'ah, so no point skating around it akhee. you decide to hold a seerah conference around the time fair enough, with the intention to educate people on the issue and encourage them to follow the sunnah. but to say you celebrate mawlid, and hold gatherings with the intention of celebrating mawlid, is wrong. before anyone brings about some long post about some aalim celebrating this bid'ah, give us a reference in which th sahaba or tabi'een celebrated this. as for what i think one person said, there is nothing in the sunnah or hadeeth to prohibit this, i would say no there isn't, because the sunnah already establishes we don't celebrate birthdays, our own or that of rasul allah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam so that answers that.

Have you read Muftee Taqi 'Uthmaani's [db] Fatwa on Mawlid?


wasnt bukhari from 3rd generation?

Moreover, if one does not follow the Khalaf then don't use the usools they compiled!

Jannah101
04-02-11, 10:28 PM
Have you read Muftee Taqi 'Uthmaani's [db] Fatwa on Mawlid?



Moreover, if one does not follow the Khalaf then don't use the usools they compiled!

wasnt bukhari from 3rd generation? which makes him part of the salaf, ryt?

umar gul
04-02-11, 10:29 PM
‘There are thousands of dalils open to interpretation and provide scope for disagreement. But there is only one heart and its argument is one, an argument that clamours for serenity, for Dhikr...’ (A.H Murad).

The Mawlid is important in this respect in that every Muslim harbours in his or her heart profound love and respect for the Messenger (SAW). It is this love that naturally demands expression, which incidentally takes the form of poetry, song and narration of the Sirah. Even if everything in our modern environment challenges our Iman (faith), it is essential that we attach ourselves to the Messenger (SAW) for that is where spiritual nourishment is found.

The concept of celebrating the arrival of the Messenger (SAW) should never call for contention, but sadly it is so. The question is why? Why must this arrival cause arguments when we find that the birth of a baby in any household brings much joy– it is a natural feeling and one that Allah has put in our hearts as a way of thanking Him for his blessings.

As for its permissibility in Shari’ah, the basic principle of jurisprudence, concerning mu’amalat (dealings), applies in that everything is halal (permissible) unless it is declared to be haram (forbidden) by the Qur’an or Sunnah. Thus the burden of proof is on the person arguing that something is haram.

So the question explored is, ‘Where in the light of the Quran and the Hadith is celebrating Mawlid declared to be unlawful or haram?’

Legality of Mawlid according to the Holy Qur’an

Allah states: ‘Say: Because of the (fadl) Blessings of Allah and His (rahma) Mercy you should celebrate (with happiness and pleasure). That is better than what (wealth) they amass.’ (Q.10:58). In this particular verse Allah commands that we rejoice and celebrate His blessing and mercy. But what exactly should we be rejoicing and what does Allah’s fadl and rahma refer to?

According to other verses in the Qur’an and the explanations given by scholars through their tafsir works of this ayah, the fadl and rahma is a direct reference to the Prophet (SAW). In numerous verses of the Qur’an Allah declares that the Prophet (SAW) is Allah’s mercy and a blessing.

Allah states: ‘Indeed Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when he sent among them a Messenger (Muhammad)’ (Q.3:164)

In this verse Allah uses the words fadl and rahma in the same sequence as in the verse of Surah Yunus thus denoting Allah’s fadl and rahma is the Prophet (SAW). It is also stated ‘It is He who has sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger (Muhammad (saw)) from among themselves.’ (Q.62:2).

The first ayah addresses the people who lived in the time of the Prophet (SAW). However Allah does not confine this blessing and mercy to only them but states in the next ayah ‘And (He has sent him, Muhammad also to) others among them who have not yet joined them (but they will come).’ (Q.62:3)

This verse refers to those generations of believers who did not see the Prophet (SAW) physically but are not excluded from this blessing and thus there is no limit on the time period of when to rejoice. After explaining the extent and nature of the Prophet’s (SAW) mercy Allah says ‘That is the Grace of Allah, which He bestows on whom He wills. And Allah is the owner of Mighty Grace.’(Q.62:4)

An important point to note here is from the sentence ‘Allah is the owner of Mighty Grace’. Allah is the Lord of fadl but He Himself is not the fadl which some commentators incorrectly translate as. He is the Lord of the highest blessing, its owner and possessor. For instance if you are an author of a book you are not the book itself.

The Qur’an also singles out the birthday as an important event and worthy of mention. As one example, Allah commands us to send salaam on the day Prophet Yahya (as) was born i.e. his birthday. ‘And send salaam on him the day he was born, and the day he dies and the day he will be raised up to life (again).’ (Q.19:15)

If the celebration of birthdays is an innovation and is prohibited then why would Allah single out the birthday of Prophet Yahya (as)? If Allah is ordering mankind to convey greetings to Prophet Yahya (as) then how can one say it is prohibited to do the same for the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) on his birthday, who is the last and greatest of all Prophets?

Legality of Mawlid according to the Hadith

In a Hadith narrated by Abu Qatada Ansari (rad), Allah's Messenger (SAW) was asked about fasting on Monday, whereupon he said: ‘It is (the day) when I was born and revelation was sent down to me.’ (Muslim, Book 6, No. 2606). It is clear from this Hadith that the Prophet (SAW) fasted on the day of his birth out of gratitude. Fasting is a form of worship, so one can fast or hold gatherings or provide food to the poor, all being acts of worship.

The Prophet (SAW) himself celebrated his birth. In a Hadith narrated by Anas (rad), in the Sunan of Imam Bayhaqi, (v.9 p.300 no. 43), states that the Prophet (SAW) sacrificed some animals and performed an aqiqa for himself after the announcement of his Prophethood.

Imam Suyuti states that this was not an aqiqa done in the traditional sense since his grandfather had already performed it. It is not possible to repeat an act of Shari’ah once it is already done. Imam Suyuti states that the reason for the sacrifice of the animals was an act of thankfulness and a celebration done by the Prophet (SAW) for his birth. Imam Suyuti concludes that it is mustahab (advisable) for us to celebrate the mawlid in ijtima (collectively) since the Prophet (SAW) sacrificed animals and distributed the food and thus we too should have a gathering and distribute food and rejoice in a good manner (‘Husn Maqsid fî `Amal-il mawlid by Imâm Jalâl ad-Dîn Suyűtî, pp. 64-6).

Some critics may argue that since the Prophet’s original aqiqa was done in the period of jahliyyah he wanted to repeat it to ensure its proper performance. However this is not a valid argument because why were other acts not repeated by the Prophet (SAW)? For example why did he not repeat his nikah to Hadrat Khadija (rad) which was originally done prior to Prophethood?

In another hadith it is reported by Abdullah ibn Abbas that the Prophet (SAW) found that the Jews were fasting on the 10th of Muharram. He asked them why this was so. They replied that this was a blessed day since on this day God gave Bani-Israel liberty and independence from Pharaoh. The Prophet (SAW) then said ‘if you are fasting on a day when Musa received success then I am closer to Musa than you. I have a better right over Musa than you. So I will fast on the same day.’ So the Prophet (SAW) ordered his Companions to begin to fast on the day of Ashura. (Muslim, Book 6, Ch. 19 Hadith no. 2518 & 2520).

This Hadith shows that it is permissible to celebrate a blessing of Allah even if it is celebrating an event that took place on a particular day. When the Prophet (SAW) heard the answer of the Jews, he did not say it was impermissible to celebrate such a day. Instead he encouraged Muslims to fast on this day too. From this Hadith one can construe that the day of Ashura was blessed due to Prophet Musa (a.s) then surely the day that the Best of Creation was made rahmatalil alimeen should also be celebrated by us.

Imam Al Suyuti, from Alhawi lil fatawi, wrote a chapter entitled ‘The Good Intention in Commemorating the Mawlid’ in which he said, ‘To commemorate the Mawlid, which is basically gathering people together, reciting parts of the Qu'ran, narrating stories about the Prophet's birth and the signs that accompanied it, then serving food, and afterwards, departing, is one of the good innovations; and the one who practices it gets rewarded, because it involves venerating the status of the Prophet and expressing joy for his honourable birth.’

Further to this Allama Ibn Qayyim al Jawziyyah, a renowned student of Imam Ibn Taymiyya, writes, in Madarij as-Salikin. ‘Listening to a good voice celebrating the birthday of the Prophet (SAW) or celebrating any of the holy days in our history gives peace to the heart, and gives the listener light from the Prophet (SAW) to his heart, and he will drink more from the Muhammadan spring’

Ibn Kathir showing his appreciation of celebrating the Mawlid, mentions in Al Bidayah wan Nihayah the Islamic ruler Malik al-Muzzafar. He writes, ‘During Rabi ul Awwal he used to celebrate Mawlid with great celebration, Moreover, he was benevolent, brave, wise, a scholar, and a just person. Shaykh Abul Khattab wrote a book on Mawlid an Nabi for him and named it At-Tanwir fi Mawlid al Bashir al Nazeer, for which he gave him 1000 dinars. His rule stayed till the Rule of Salahiya and he captured Aka and he remained a man worthy of respect. Al-Sabt mentions that a person attending the gathering of Mawlid held by Muzzafar said: He used to fill the table with 5000 well cooked goats, 10,000 chickens, 100-thousand bowls (of milk) and 30,000 trays of sweets.’ This clearly indicates that the practise of Mawlid was commemorated by those who were authorities in Islam.

Conclusion

From the Muslim point of view, the Prophet (SAW) is the symbol of perfection of both the individual and society. During the Mawlid, when one thinks of the Prophet (SAW) who is to be emulated, it is the image of one who is merciful to those who surround him (SAW) and severe with the false and the unjust. He (SAW) is endowed with virtues of strength and solemnity on the one hand and charity and generosity and ultimately a mercy for the entire creation.

The love of the Prophet (SAW) and celebration of the Mawlid is incumbent upon all Muslims especially upon those who aspire towards his (SAW) way of life. This love is not personal love but rather, the Prophet (SAW) is loved because he symbolises all that is beautiful in God’s creation. His virtues are universal and as such the celebration of his birth is indeed a celebration of humanity

KeeKee
04-02-11, 10:30 PM
ibnulqayyim: I take Shaikh Maulana Rasheed Ahmed Gangohi's (may Allah grant him jannah) stance on mawlid.

Fais
04-02-11, 10:32 PM
celebrating mawlid is a bid'ah, so no point skating around it akhee. you decide to hold a seerah conference around the time fair enough, with the intention to educate people on the issue and encourage them to follow the sunnah. but to say you celebrate mawlid, and hold gatherings with the intention of celebrating mawlid, is wrong. before anyone brings about some long post about some aalim celebrating this bid'ah, give us a reference in which th sahaba or tabi'een celebrated this. as for what i think one person said, there is nothing in the sunnah or hadeeth to prohibit this, i would say no there isn't, because the sunnah already establishes we don't celebrate birthdays, our own or that of rasul allah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam so that answers that.

On what grounds do you call it a Bida? Now i could argue that bida was spilt into categories by the Scholars ... but on this issue, i dont think there is even a need to go into that, because i think people just midunderstand the whole thing ... straw man argument.

KeeKee
04-02-11, 10:36 PM
go to the first page and read mufti ebrahim desai's students fatawa on the subject, there you will find the answer. if you want to hold a seerah conference without head bopping and warbling shirk, then by all means do so nothing wrong with that. But do the same thing and call it celebrating the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallams bithday and there you have a problem. because neither the prophet, nor the sahaba nor the pious people after them, do any such thing.

Jannah101
04-02-11, 10:36 PM
And what is celebrating his :saw: birthday?

A big cake wtih 1400+ candles on it? Balloons? Party poppers?

Because ive never been to such a Mawlid.

Because all the Mawlids ive been to is just a mixture of Quran, Seerah, Shama'il .. some poetry praising Allah (SWT) and the Prophet :saw: ...

So what out of that do you have a problem with?

im not talkin about that, i was talkin about what i described in my earlier post... :S i saw like hundreds of people marchin and runnin around with pakistani flags and they were celebratin the prophet's (s) bday

anyways, you recite qur'an and learn about the prophet (s) all the time, ur nt supposed to do it to celebrate the prophet's (s) bday.

Can i ask, why do u celebrate it? as i mentioned earlier the sahaba never celebrated the prophet's (s) birthday even the way u described - they done those things regardless but they didnt do it with the intention of celebrating the prophet's (s) birthday. did they not love the prophet (s) enough to do it?

.Abu.Rambo.
04-02-11, 10:39 PM
I don't see why no one ever agrees to disagree on this issue. Scholars whose weight is immense within our Ummah have given the positives of Milad and allowed it.. If you don't agree then alhamdulilah, but don't try and shove your opinion down our throats.

Fais
04-02-11, 10:55 PM
go to the first page and read mufti ebrahim desai's students fatawa on the subject, there you will find the answer. if you want to hold a seerah conference without head bopping and warbling shirk, then by all means do so nothing wrong with that. But do the same thing and call it celebrating the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallams bithday and there you have a problem. because neither the prophet, nor the sahaba nor the pious people after them, do any such thing.

Im asking, on what grounds are you calling it a bida? Its a simple question ...


im not talkin about that, i was talkin about what i described in my earlier post... :S i saw like hundreds of people marchin and runnin around with pakistani flags and they were celebratin the prophet's (s) bday

LOL @ Pakistani flags ... Just because they say they celebrating the Mawlid, that doesn't mean they are. Ive never been on any such march .. yet attended plenty of Mawlid .. all throughout the year.



anyways, you recite qur'an and learn about the prophet (s) all the time, ur nt supposed to do it to celebrate the prophet's (s) bday.

Again, who said anything about sticking to a particular day? You see this is the misunderstanding im talking about.



Can i ask, why do u celebrate it? as i mentioned earlier the sahaba never celebrated the prophet's (s) birthday even the way u described - they done those things regardless but they didnt do it with the intention of celebrating the prophet's (s) birthday. did they not love the prophet (s) enough to do it?

Yes you can, I do it to try attain true, proper love and understanding of the Prophet :saw: by reading what the Quran says about him :saw: By reading his :saw: Seerah, by reading about his blessed characteristics ... You can't love a person you know nothing about.

And people get to caught up in words like "Celebrate" and "Birthday" .. remember that the birth of the Prophet :saw: is part of his Seerah. You have no Seerah without his :saw: birth.

Jannah101
04-02-11, 11:15 PM
Im asking, on what grounds are you calling it a bida? Its a simple question ...



LOL @ Pakistani flags ... Just because they say they celebrating the Mawlid, that doesn't mean they are. Ive never been on any such march .. yet attended plenty of Mawlid .. all throughout the year.



Again, who said anything about sticking to a particular day? You see this is the misunderstanding im talking about.



Yes you can, I do it to try attain true, proper love and understanding of the Prophet :saw: by reading what the Quran says about him :saw: By reading his :saw: Seerah, by reading about his blessed characteristics ... You can't love a person you know nothing about.

And people get to caught up in words like "Celebrate" and "Birthday" .. remember that the birth of the Prophet :saw: is part of his Seerah. You have no Seerah without his :saw: birth.

i was in a driving lesson and i saw ppl doin that - the flag thing and mrchin and they were doing it to celebrate prophet (s) bday.

lol ur talkin about jus learnin seerah...im talkin about this one day that everyone goes mad. learning about the prophet (s) is one thing...celebrating birthday is diff. so which do u do?

Fais
04-02-11, 11:22 PM
i was in a driving lesson and i saw ppl doin that - the flag thing and mrchin and they were doing it to celebrate prophet (s) bday.

lol ur talkin about jus learnin seerah...im talkin about this one day that everyone goes mad. learning about the prophet (s) is one thing...celebrating birthday is diff. so which do u do?

Well you would have to define "celebrate" .. what exactly do you mean by it?

muslim ak
04-02-11, 11:29 PM
i was in a driving lesson and i saw ppl doin that - the flag thing and mrchin and they were doing it to celebrate prophet (s) bday.

lol ur talkin about jus learnin seerah...im talkin about this one day that everyone goes mad. learning about the prophet (s) is one thing...celebrating birthday is diff. so which do u do?

a key thing for being a good driver is observation which you lack !!

next time have good look at the flags as they were not pakistani flags

Fais
04-02-11, 11:36 PM
a key thing for being a good driver is observation which you lack !!

next time have good look at the flags as they were not pakistani flags

I would say thats a cheap shot, but then again you have a point, because she is a woman driver after all :rotfl: ... Ok ok that was a cheap shot *Puts hands up*


So you are the one's who go around waving flags? What flags do you wave and why do you wave them?

Jannah101
04-02-11, 11:44 PM
a key thing for being a good driver is observation which you lack !!

next time have good look at the flags as they were not pakistani flags

it was the pakistan flag...it was green with moon and star...u wud have to be blind to miss it!

IbnulQayyim
05-02-11, 12:07 AM
:rotfl:
i was in a driving lesson

u take driving lessons :rotfl:

muslim ak
05-02-11, 12:32 AM
I would say thats a cheap shot, but then again you have a point, because she is a woman driver after all :rotfl: ... Ok ok that was a cheap shot *Puts hands up*


So you are the one's who go around waving flags? What flags do you wave and why do you wave them?

well it was not me she saw... but i have been to a couple of mawlid processions where there were many green islamic flags and this is the case in many muslim countries all over the world who celebrate the mawlid.


Sayyidatuna Amina says, 'I saw that three flags were placed, one in the east, one in the west and one on the roof of the Ka'ba. At that time, The Holy Prophet was born.' (khasais-e-kubra, V1, P82)

When the Holy Prophet was performing Hijrat and came to a place close to Madina called 'mo'za'ai ghameem', Bareeda Aslami along with seventy horsemen from the tribe of bani Sehm came with the intention to capture the Holy Prophet . However, they themselves got captured in the love of The Holy Prophet and accepted Islam. They said, 'Ya Rasool-Allah , your entry into Madina should be done with flags.' After saying this, the horsemen took off their turbans, placed them on top of their spears and lead the way into Madina.


i see no problem with a mawlid procession

..wadi..
05-02-11, 12:35 AM
To all the Muslims who don't 'celebrate' mawlid: leave the others to do their thing and say alhamdulillah that your not arrogant enough to argue for days of 'celebration' being added to the Islamic calender that the Prophet :saw: did not see fit to add.

Be happy that you are the ones that truly accept the Islam that the Final Messenger of Allah :saw: came with, and nothing else.

ALHAMDULILLAH :coolbro:

Fais
05-02-11, 12:39 AM
To all the Muslims who don't 'celebrate' mawlid: leave the others to do their thing and say alhamdulillah that your not arrogant enough to argue for days of 'celebration' being added to the Islamic calender that the Prophet :saw: did not see fit to add.

Be happy that you are the ones that truly accept the Islam that the Final Messenger of Allah :saw: came with, and nothing else.

ALHAMDULILLAH :coolbro:

Im sorry but whos asking for a change in the calender? And how is that even possible?

..wadi..
05-02-11, 12:41 AM
Im sorry but whos asking for a change in the calender? And how is that even possible?

Mawlid is celebrated on a specific day, no?

Fais
05-02-11, 12:44 AM
Mawlid is celebrated on a specific day, no?

No.

..wadi..
05-02-11, 12:49 AM
No.

So people don't celebrate the 'birth' of the Prophet :saw: ('mawlid an-nabi') on a specific day?

muslim ak
05-02-11, 12:52 AM
The Mawlid in Mecca According to Muslim Historians-Celebration of the Birthplace of the Prophet

Mecca, the Mother of cities, may Allah bless and honor her, is the leader of other Islamic cities in the celebration of Mawlid as in other things. In his book Akhbar Makka, Vol. 2, p. 160, the 3rd-century historian of Mecca, al-Azraqi, mentions as one of the many places in Mecca in which the performance of sala is desirable (mustahabb), the house where the Prophet was born (Mawlid al-Nabi). According to him, the house had previously been turned into a mosque by the mother of the caliphs Musa al-Hadi and Harun ar-Rashid.

The Qur'anic scholar al-Naqqash (266-351) mentions the birthplace of the Prophet as a place where du`a by noon on Mondays is answered. He is quoted in al-Fasi's Shifa' al-gharam Vol. 1, p. 199, and others.



One of oldest source that mentions a public commemoration of the Mawlid is in Ibn Jubayr's (540-614) Rihal ("Travels"), p. 114-115:

"This blessed place [the house of the Prophet] is opened, and all men enter it to derive blessing from it (mutabarrikin bihi), on every Monday of the month of Rabi` al-Awwal; for on that day and in that month was born the Prophet."

this is also mention by ibn kathir, i can't rememeber the book

The 7th-century historians Abul `Abbas al-`Azafi and his son Abul Qasim al-`Azafi wrote in their unpublished Kitab ad-durr al-munazzam:

"Pious pilgrims and prominent travellers testified that, on the day of the mawlid in Mecca, no activities are undertaken, and nothing is sold or bought, except by the people who are busy visiting his noble birthplace, and rush to it. On this day the Ka`ba is opened and visited."

Ibn Battuta's Account of the Mawlid

The famous 8th-century historian Ibn Battuta relates in his Rihla, Vol. 1, p. 309 and 347, that on every Friday, after the salah, and on the birthday of the Prophet, the door of Ka`ba is opened by the head of the Banu Shayba, the doorkeepers of the Ka`ba, and that on the Mawlid, the Shafi`i qadi (head judge) of Mecca, Najmuddin Muhammad Ibn al-Imam Muhyiddin al-Tabari, distributes food to the shurafa' (descendants of the Prophet and to all the other people of Mecca.

Three Tenth-Century Accounts of the Mawlid

The following description consolidates eyewitness accounts by three 10th-century authorities: the historian Ibn huhayra from his al-Jami` al-latif fi fasl Makka wa ahliha, p. 326; the hafiz Ibn Hajar al-Haytami from his Kitab al-Mawlid ash-Sharif al-Mu`azzam, and the historian al-Nahrawali from al-I`lam bi-a`lam Bayt Allah al-haram, p. 205.

Each year in Rabi` al-Awwal, after the salat al-Maghrib, the four qadis of Mecca (representing the Four Schools) and large groups of people including the fuqaha' (scholars) and fudala' (notables) of Mecca, shaykhs, zawiya teachers and their students, ru'asa' (magistrates), and muta`ammamin (scholars) leave the mosque and set out collectively for a visit to the birthplace of the Prophet, shouting out dhikr and tahlil (LA ILAHA ILLALLAH). The houses on the route are illuminated with numerous lanterns and large candles, and a great many people are out and about. They all wear special clothes and they take their children with them. Having reachethe birthplace, inside a special sermon for the occasion of the birthday of the Prophet is delivered, mentioning the miracles (karamat) that took place on that occasion. Hereafter the du`a' for the Sultan (i.e. the Caliph), the Emir of Mecca, and the Shafi`i qadi is performed and all pray humbly. Shortly before the salat al-`Isha', the whole party returns from the birthplace of the Prophet to the Great Mosque, which is almost overcrowded, and all sit down in rows at the foot of the Maqam Ibrahim. In the mosque, a preacher first mentions the tahmid (AL HAMDULILLAH) and the tahlil, and once again the du`a' for the Sultan, the Emir, and the Shafi`i qadi is performed. After this the call for the Salat al-`Isha' is made. After the salat, the crowd breaks up. A similar description is given by al-Diyarbakri (d. 960) in his Ta'rikh al-Khamis.

The Celebration of Mawlid in Islamic Countries Today

In every Muslim country today, we find people celebrating the Prophet's birthday. This is true of the following: Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine, Iraq, Kuwait, the Emirates, Saudi Arabia (not officially, but in the majority of homes), Sudan, Yemen, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania, Djibouti, Somalia, Turkey, Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, Iran, Afghanistan, Azerbaidjan, Uzbekistan, Turkestan, Bosnia (former Yougoslavia), Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore, and most other Islamic countries. All these countries, O Nation of Islam, are celebrating that event. How is it that today a minority is coming and making up a ruling that it is haram? And who are these scholars who spoke against Mawlid, in comparison to the huffaz (hadith masters) and scholars of the Community such as Abu Shama, `Asqalani, Suyuti, Sakhawi, Haytami, Shawkani, and al-Qari, all of whom declared Mawlid praiseworthy? How can any of the "Salafis" declare haram something that even the strictest of their scholars, Ibn Taymiyya, allowed under certain conditions, and which Ibn al-Jawzi and Ibn Kathir encouraged, each of them by writing a booklet entitled Mawlid and consisting of poems and passages from the sira?

Fais
05-02-11, 12:56 AM
So people don't celebrate the 'birth' of the Prophet :saw: ('mawlid an-nabi') on a specific day?

Some might do, some don't. I dont.

..wadi..
05-02-11, 01:00 AM
I dont.

:jkk:

..wadi..
05-02-11, 01:18 AM
The Mawlid in Mecca According to Muslim Historians-Celebration of the Birthplace of the Prophet

Mecca, the Mother of cities, may Allah bless and honor her, is the leader of other Islamic cities in the celebration of Mawlid as in other things. In his book Akhbar Makka, Vol. 2, p. 160, the 3rd-century historian of Mecca, al-Azraqi, mentions as one of the many places in Mecca in which the performance of sala is desirable (mustahabb), the house where the Prophet was born (Mawlid al-Nabi). According to him, the house had previously been turned into a mosque by the mother of the caliphs Musa al-Hadi and Harun ar-Rashid.

The Qur'anic scholar al-Naqqash (266-351) mentions the birthplace of the Prophet as a place where du`a by noon on Mondays is answered. He is quoted in al-Fasi's Shifa' al-gharam Vol. 1, p. 199, and others.



One of oldest source that mentions a public commemoration of the Mawlid is in Ibn Jubayr's (540-614) Rihal ("Travels"), p. 114-115:

"This blessed place [the house of the Prophet] is opened, and all men enter it to derive blessing from it (mutabarrikin bihi), on every Monday of the month of Rabi` al-Awwal; for on that day and in that month was born the Prophet."

this is also mention by ibn kathir, i can't rememeber the book

The 7th-century historians Abul `Abbas al-`Azafi and his son Abul Qasim al-`Azafi wrote in their unpublished Kitab ad-durr al-munazzam:

"Pious pilgrims and prominent travellers testified that, on the day of the mawlid in Mecca, no activities are undertaken, and nothing is sold or bought, except by the people who are busy visiting his noble birthplace, and rush to it. On this day the Ka`ba is opened and visited."

Ibn Battuta's Account of the Mawlid

The famous 8th-century historian Ibn Battuta relates in his Rihla, Vol. 1, p. 309 and 347, that on every Friday, after the salah, and on the birthday of the Prophet, the door of Ka`ba is opened by the head of the Banu Shayba, the doorkeepers of the Ka`ba, and that on the Mawlid, the Shafi`i qadi (head judge) of Mecca, Najmuddin Muhammad Ibn al-Imam Muhyiddin al-Tabari, distributes food to the shurafa' (descendants of the Prophet and to all the other people of Mecca.

Three Tenth-Century Accounts of the Mawlid

The following description consolidates eyewitness accounts by three 10th-century authorities: the historian Ibn huhayra from his al-Jami` al-latif fi fasl Makka wa ahliha, p. 326; the hafiz Ibn Hajar al-Haytami from his Kitab al-Mawlid ash-Sharif al-Mu`azzam, and the historian al-Nahrawali from al-I`lam bi-a`lam Bayt Allah al-haram, p. 205.

Each year in Rabi` al-Awwal, after the salat al-Maghrib, the four qadis of Mecca (representing the Four Schools) and large groups of people including the fuqaha' (scholars) and fudala' (notables) of Mecca, shaykhs, zawiya teachers and their students, ru'asa' (magistrates), and muta`ammamin (scholars) leave the mosque and set out collectively for a visit to the birthplace of the Prophet, shouting out dhikr and tahlil (LA ILAHA ILLALLAH). The houses on the route are illuminated with numerous lanterns and large candles, and a great many people are out and about. They all wear special clothes and they take their children with them. Having reachethe birthplace, inside a special sermon for the occasion of the birthday of the Prophet is delivered, mentioning the miracles (karamat) that took place on that occasion. Hereafter the du`a' for the Sultan (i.e. the Caliph), the Emir of Mecca, and the Shafi`i qadi is performed and all pray humbly. Shortly before the salat al-`Isha', the whole party returns from the birthplace of the Prophet to the Great Mosque, which is almost overcrowded, and all sit down in rows at the foot of the Maqam Ibrahim. In the mosque, a preacher first mentions the tahmid (AL HAMDULILLAH) and the tahlil, and once again the du`a' for the Sultan, the Emir, and the Shafi`i qadi is performed. After this the call for the Salat al-`Isha' is made. After the salat, the crowd breaks up. A similar description is given by al-Diyarbakri (d. 960) in his Ta'rikh al-Khamis.

The Celebration of Mawlid in Islamic Countries Today

In every Muslim country today, we find people celebrating the Prophet's birthday. This is true of the following: Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine, Iraq, Kuwait, the Emirates, Saudi Arabia (not officially, but in the majority of homes), Sudan, Yemen, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania, Djibouti, Somalia, Turkey, Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, Iran, Afghanistan, Azerbaidjan, Uzbekistan, Turkestan, Bosnia (former Yougoslavia), Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore, and most other Islamic countries. All these countries, O Nation of Islam, are celebrating that event. How is it that today a minority is coming and making up a ruling that it is haram? And who are these scholars who spoke against Mawlid, in comparison to the huffaz (hadith masters) and scholars of the Community such as Abu Shama, `Asqalani, Suyuti, Sakhawi, Haytami, Shawkani, and al-Qari, all of whom declared Mawlid praiseworthy? How can any of the "Salafis" declare haram something that even the strictest of their scholars, Ibn Taymiyya, allowed under certain conditions, and which Ibn al-Jawzi and Ibn Kathir encouraged, each of them by writing a booklet entitled Mawlid and consisting of poems and passages from the sira?

:salams

Can you post a link that says the Prophet :saw: 'celebrated' his :saw: birthday and/or told us to 'celebrate' it in Rabi ul Awwal?

It would be greatly appreciated.

Al-Shifa
05-02-11, 06:45 AM
:salams

Can you post a link that says the Prophet :saw: 'celebrated' his :saw: birthday and/or told us to 'celebrate' it in Rabi ul Awwal?

It would be greatly appreciated.



i think this is all about love. There are several arguments, the detail of which is very long. But this is only how you think about it. i don't know a scholar who forbids to feel happy on the birth of our beloved Prophet ( may Allah exlat his mention). The way of expression might be different even from person to person. In spite of any other scholar, I would like to quote Allama Ibne Taymiya, a renowned scholar in Saudi Arabia and around, says in his book “Necessity of the Right Path” page 266, 5th line from the bottom, published by Dar al Hadith, "As far as what people do during the Meelad, either as a rival celebration to that which the Christian do during the time of Christ's birthday or as an expression of their love and admiration and a sign of praise for the Noble Prophet (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon Him), Allah Almighty will surely reward them for such Ij'tiha". He then said: "Although Meelad was not practiced by (Salaf), they should have done so since there was no objection against it from the Shari'ah point of view".
Very simple and common example from our life, There are people celebrating their birthdays, birthdays of their children, their wedding days, mother day, sister day, this day and that day, WHY???? Why they do all this, the simple and single anser is that they do this out of love. They want to show them that they are happy on these special events. But when this comes to celebrate the birth day of Allah’s Prophet, which is the biggest Mercy of Allah for all worlds, same people go in search of these kinds of excuses. While favor and mercy of Allah and its celebration described in the Qur’an itself,,,

To sum it up in short, i will qoute only below verses out of several. And if you read it with open mind and heart, it will answer your questions. May Allah expand our chests enough to understand truth.

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلاَّ رَحْمَةً لِلْعَالَمِينَ
And we did not send you except mercy for all worlds. 21:107—

لَقَدْ مَنَّ اللَّهُ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ إِذْ بَعَثَ فِيهِمْ رَسُولاً
Allah has indeed bestowed a great favour upon the Muslims, that He sent to them a Noble Messenger from among them, 3:164

Now, if you believe in the above verses and rightly think the Holy Prophet (may Allah exalt his mention) as the Biggest Mercy and Great Favor of Allah (swt) then come to the next,

قُلْ بِفَضْلِ اللَّهِ وَبِرَحْمَتِهِ فَبِذَلِكَ فَلْيَفْرَحُوا

Upon Allah’s favour and upon His mercy, upon these should the people rejoice. 10:58

وَأَمَّا بِنِعْمَةِ رَبِّكَ فَحَدِّثْ
And abundantly proclaim the favours of your Lord. 93:11

Allah (swt) is declraring His beloved Prophet as His Mercy for all worlds and His Great Favor upon believers and then ordering Himself to rejoice upon His Mercy and prclaim His favors.

i think above is enough for the men of reasons to feel happy upon the occasion when this Biggest Mercy and Great Favor of Allah (swt) sent to us and that is the Birth of our beloved Prophet (may peace & blessings of Allah be upon him).

al faqeer
05-02-11, 07:34 AM
The Main Point is that Hanbalis did not categorize in Bidah into two which in turn salafis understood as any bidah good or bad as Bad .

Here are a few examples from the Sahaaba of Good Bidah :

Dawud ibn Salih says: "[The Caliph] Marwan one day saw a man placing his face on top of the grave of the Prophet. He said: "Do you know what you are doing?" When he came near him, he realized it was Abu Ayyub al-Ansari. The latter said: "Yes; I came to the Prophet, not to a stone.
,
References:

►Ahmad (5:422)
,
►Ibn Hibban in his Sahih,
,
►Tabarani in his Mu`ja
,
►al-Hakim in his Mustadrak (4:515); both the latter and al-Dhahabi said it was sahih.
,
►It is also cited by al-Subki in Shifa' al-siqam (p. 126),
,
►Ibn Taymiyya in al-Muntaqa (2:261f.), and
,
►Haythami in al-Zawa'id (4:2)
,
.................................................. ..........................................

[bukhari Volume 2, Book 13, Number 39: ]
Narrated Az-Zuhri:
,
I heard As-Saib bin Yazid, saying, "In the life-time of Allah's Apostle, and Abu Bakr and Umar, the Adhan for the Jumua prayer used to be pronounced after the Imam had taken his seat on the pulpit. But when the people increased in number during the caliphate of 'Uthman, he introduced a third Adhan (on Friday for the Jumua prayer) .

.................................................. .................................................

Sahih Bukhari Book 32 Volume 3 Hadith 227
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prayed at night the whole month of Ramadan out of sincere Faith and hoping for a reward from Allah, then all his previous sins will be forgiven." Ibn Shihab (a sub-narrator) said, "Allah's Apostle died and the people continued observing that (i.e. Nawafil offered individually, not in congregation), and it remained as it was during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr and in the early days of 'Umar's Caliphate." 'Abdur Rahman bin 'Abdul Qari said, "I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, 'In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)'. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Ka'b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, 'Umar remarked, 'What an excellent Bid'a (i.e.innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform

al faqeer
05-02-11, 07:35 AM
Imam Dhahabi (Rah) writes:

المحدثات من الأمور ضربان ما احدث يخالف كتابا او سنة او اثرا او اجماعا فهذه البدعة ضلالة وما احدث من الخير لا خلاف فيه لواحد من هذا فهذه محدثة غير مذمومة قد قال عمر في قيام رمضان نعمت البدعة

Innovations are of two types, The first consist of those new matters which are in opposition of Quran, Sunnah, Athaar, or Ijma of Ummah, these will be Bidat al Dhalalah (evil innovations). The second type consists of those new matters which are performed for the good, these will not be disliked, This is why Umar (RA) said at Qiyaam of Tarawih: What an excellent Bidah this is

[Imam Dhahabi in As Siyar al Alam an Nabula, Volume 10, Page No. 70]

al faqeer
05-02-11, 07:36 AM
Imam Nawawi (rah) said:

البدعة في الشرع هي احداث مالم يکن في عهد رسول اﷲ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم وهي منقسمة الي حسنة و قبيحة وقال الشيخ الامام المجمع علي امامته و جلالته و تمکنه في انواع العلوم و براعته ابو محمد عبدالعزيز بن عبدالسلام في آخر ’’کتاب القواعد‘‘ البدعة منقسمة إلي واجبة و محرمة و مندوبة و مکروهة و مباحة قال والطريق في ذلک أن تعرض البدعة علي قواعد الشريعة فان دخلت في قواعد الايجاب فهي واجبة و إن دخلت في قواعد التحريم فهي محرمة و إن دخلت في قواعد المندوب فهي مندوبه و ان دخلت في قواعد المکروه فهي مکروهة و ان دخلت في قواعد المباح فهي مباحة

Translation: “al-Bid`ah in the Law is the innovating of what did not exist in the time of the Messenger of Allah and is divided into “Excellent” and “bad” (wahya munqasimatun ila hasana wa qabiha). The Shaykh, the Imam on whose foremost leadership, greatness, standing, and brilliance in all kinds of Islamic sciences there is consensus, Abű Muh.ammad `Abd al-`Aziz ibn `Abd al-Salam - Allah have mercy on him and be well-pleased with him! - said toward the end of his book, al-Qawa`id : “Innovation is divided into 'obligatory' (wajiba), 'forbidden's (muharrama), 'recommended's (manduba), 'offensive's (makuiha), and 'indifferent's (mubaha). The way [to discriminate] in this is that the innovation be examined in the light of the regulations of the Law (qawa`id al-sharp`a).

If it falls under the regulations of obligatoriness (ijab) then it is obligatory; under the regulations of prohibitiveness (tahrum) then it is prohibited; recommendability, then recommended; offensiveness, then offensive; indifference, then indifferent.” [al-Nawawi, Tahdhib al-Asma' wal-Lughat Volume 003, Page No. 22]

al faqeer
05-02-11, 07:43 AM
Imam Al Shafi (rah) endorsing Good Bida'h (founder of Shafi Madhab)

,
A major contribution of Imâm al-Shâfi`î (ra) in the Foundations of Jurisprudence (us.űl al-fiqh) is his division of innovation (al-bid`a) and innovated matters (al-muh.dathât) into “good” and “bad” depending on their conformity or non-conformity to the guidelines of the Religion.
,
This is authentically narrated from al-Shâfi`î from two of his most prestigious students in the latter period of his life,the Egyptian hadîth Masters Harmala ibn Yah.yâ al-Tujaybî and al-Rabî` ibn Sulaymân al-Murâdî:
,
Harmala said, “I heard al-Shâfi`î (ra) say:
,
'Innovation is two types (al-bid`atu bid`atân):
approved innovation (bid`a mah.műda) and disapproved innovation (bid`a madhműma). Whatever conforms to the Sunna is approved (mah.műd) and whatever opposes it is abominable (madhműm).
,
He used as his proof the statement of `Umar ibn al-Khat.t.âb (ra) about the [congregational] supererogatory night prayers in the month of Ramad.ân: “What a fine innovation this is!
,
►Narrated from H.armala by Abű Nu`aym with his chain through Abű Bakr al-âjurrî in H.ilyat al-Awliyâ' (9:121 #13315=1985 ed. 9:113)
,
► and cited by Abű Shâma in al-Bâ`ith `alâ Inkâr al-Bida` wal-H.awâdith (Ryadh 1990 ed. p. 93),
,
►Ibn Rajab in Jâmi` al-`Ulűm wal-H.ikam (p. 267=Zuh.aylî ed. 2:52= Arna'űt. ed. 2:131 s.ah.îh.),
,
►Ibn H.ajar in Fath. al-Bârî (1959 ed. 13:253),
,
►al-Turt.űshî in al-H.awâdith wa al-Bida` (p. 158-159),
,
►and al-Shawkânî, al-Qawl al-Mufîd fî Adillat al-Ijtihâd wa al-Taqlîd (1347/1929 ed. p. 36). `Umar's report is narrated by Mâlik in al-Muwat.t.a' and al-Bukhârî in his S.ah.îh

al faqeer
05-02-11, 07:51 AM
Its obvious from the above evidence that Bidah in religion has been divided into two and then some categorized it into five .

So If this one school claim this is bidah and that is bidah they can be easily refuted simple by saying that there is no Ijmaa3 on the Issue since there are conflicting stances within ahlus sunnah and the majority say Bidah Hasanah exists .

As for Mawlid as long as one day in the year is not allocated for it and it is not considered an Eid and commemorated all round the year , then it is not a bidah as long as it does not go out of the boundaries of Sunnah .

PakiBaz
05-02-11, 11:05 AM
Jkz al faqeer, i think that sums it up, might as well close thread:)

..wadi..
05-02-11, 01:22 PM
i think above is enough

:jkk:

Thank you for the effort, but its far from being good enough. What you (or maybe the one who told you to follow mawlid) have done is very loosely interpret ayat of the Qur'an to justify your actions. The fact that you or anyone else have never been able to do more than this makes it clear to me what you do is not from the Qur'an and Sunnah but from the will of men who came later. I try my best to truly follow Rasulullah :saw: so i won't add days to the Muslim calender in his name that he didn't see fit to add. Clearly you people don't have a problem doing this, and that is between you and Allah awj, who i should remind you said

This day, I have perfected your religion for you [Surah Al-Ma'idah, 5:3]

'perfect' is a very clear and comprehensive word, and i'm happy with the perfect Islam Rasulullah :saw: came with. Those who are not, may Allah ta ala forgive them all.

:wswrwb:

Jannah101
05-02-11, 01:47 PM
:rotfl:

u take driving lessons :rotfl:

huh whys that funy?

al faqeer
05-02-11, 02:38 PM
:jkk:

Thank you for the effort, but its far from being good enough. What you (or maybe the one who told you to follow mawlid) have done is very loosely interpret ayat of the Qur'an to justify your actions. The fact that you or anyone else have never been able to do more than this makes it clear to me what you do is not from the Qur'an and Sunnah but from the will of men who came later. I try my best to truly follow Rasulullah :saw: so i won't add days to the Muslim calender in his name that he didn't see fit to add. Clearly you people don't have a problem doing this, and that is between you and Allah awj, who i should remind you said

This day, I have perfected your religion for you [Surah Al-Ma'idah, 5:3]

'perfect' is a very clear and comprehensive word, and i'm happy with the perfect Islam Rasulullah :saw: came with. Those who are not, may Allah ta ala forgive them all.

:wswrwb:

ITs Nothing new in religion , its Ibaadah already done by all Muslims , only difference is that its a gathering that should be in the boundaries of shariah .

Quran , Seerah , poetry .

So its nothing new .

IbnulQayyim
05-02-11, 04:12 PM
Its one thing studying in Dar ul-Uloom and getting to know what truly Islam and its another thing to rely on english translations and articles and fataawa by 'Ulamaa which is what i do.

Anyways, it is really easy saying to people, you are misguided and I am guided when one hasn't studied the Chapter of 'Bid'ah'. No one can follow Qur'aan and Sunnatur Rasool :saw: directly.

Now what matters is taking the deen of those who bid'ah others out or those who say Allaah knows best who is guided, I am not taking the job of Allah, either part-time, or full-time.

Ibadah
05-02-11, 04:17 PM
Its bida'a to signal out a specific day to hold the gathering because of the birth of the nabi (saw) none of the sahaba (ra) have done this, nor did the nabi (saw) celebrate the bdays of our fathers Ibrahim (as), Isa (as) etc. This came way after the nabi (saw) time.

If this was a special event then wouldnt the nabi (saw) address this to his ummah?

If your want to celebrate the nabi (saw) bday then follow by his example all year round, hold gatherings everymonth, make sure your intentions are nothing to do with the nabi (saw) bday but an act of Ibadah that you would do any other day.

This is a bit like the Christians celebrating the birth of Isa (As) which they claim to be on the 25th december.

Again scholars have agreed the nabi (saw) was born on the 9th and died on the 12th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwDJkL-Ywvs (this sums it up)

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/books/95

I want someone to provide proof from the Qur'an and sunnah that the nabi (saw) or his sahabas (ra) have done this.

TheAuthenticBase
05-02-11, 08:00 PM
Note:-Even if you claim to posses the understanding of the sahabah.You would still have nil.Because better than you are the later generations from every way and every manner.Since you are introducing this, it is bid'ah which you are doing.So every bid'ah in Islam is considered wrong? (by your own rules)

As you are introducing new rules in Islam which include negating the congregation of muslimeen (against shariah).This was done since longtime, but you are negating it now.

Your negativity is new, but the positive is since longtime ago.You are doing bid'ah.

Bruv, u make no sense whatsoever!

TheAuthenticBase
05-02-11, 08:01 PM
lol ... Thats funny.

Anyways, i just want to know what exactly is your issue with the Mawlid.

Whats funny is how ppl don't even read the first post!

TheAuthenticBase
05-02-11, 08:03 PM
i heard the prophet (s) celebrated his birthday by fasting on mondays and thursdays right? so why not just do that? ive seen people (mainly pakistanis) celebrate it and for some reason they are running around with the pakistan flag and theres like a massive march thing...

i agree with authenticbas - we follow the example of the prophet (s) and the sahaba - theres no record of sahaba doing this, then why should we?

If you really love the prophet (s) then follow him completely.
its sad that bid'ah has become sunnah these days and sunnah has become a bid'ah

maashaaAllaah! Someone who is making sense!

Pkstn flags? typical 'lovers' of the prophet 9saw) going against his commands!

TheAuthenticBase
05-02-11, 08:04 PM
:salams

I was initially not going to post on any threads related to Mawlid but AuthenticBase prove to me Saheeh Bukhaari is the Most Authentic Book after Allaah. My condition is prove it from the Salaf, not the Khalaf. You do not follow the Khalaf as you shadowed, so prove it from the Salaf that Saheeh Bukhaari is an Authentic compilation.


Simply by looking into the biographies of the salaf...

TheAuthenticBase
05-02-11, 08:06 PM
No some people make it such which makes the Mawlid participation a Bid'ah.

Mawlid is a bidd'ah full stop

TheAuthenticBase
05-02-11, 08:07 PM
And what is celebrating his :saw: birthday?

A big cake wtih 1400+ candles on it? Balloons? Party poppers?

Because ive never been to such a Mawlid.

Because all the Mawlids ive been to is just a mixture of Quran, Seerah, Shama'il .. some poetry praising Allah (SWT) and the Prophet :saw: ...

So what out of that do you have a problem with?

Please read my FIRST POST!!!!

It answers ur QUESTIOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!

TheAuthenticBase
05-02-11, 08:09 PM
Have you read Muftee Taqi 'Uthmaani's [db] Fatwa on Mawlid?



Moreover, if one does not follow the Khalaf then don't use the usools they compiled!

Muftee Taqi Uthmaani obviously wasnt following the salaf.

As for ur second point, i've alread answrd this b4... ur obviously not concentrating on what i say!

Jannah101
05-02-11, 08:14 PM
every1 jus follow qala Allah (swt) wa qala rasool (s), dont tie the truth to men.

and when diff of opinion arise then go with the safer one. its only common sense that when there is doubt over an issue then stay away from it.

IbnulQayyim
05-02-11, 08:17 PM
Muftee Taqi Uthmaani obviously wasnt following the salaf.

As for ur second point, i've alread answrd this b4... ur obviously not concentrating on what i say!

Mufti Taqi 'Uthmaani knows more than you. He is a scholar, learn to respect him.
May Allaah guide us all Aameen.

IbnulQayyim
05-02-11, 08:19 PM
every1 jus follow qala Allah (swt) wa qala rasool (s), dont tie the truth to men.

and when diff of opinion arise then go with the safer one. its only common sense that when there is doubt over an issue then stay away from it.

How to decide a safer one? Have we reached the level of such piety and 'authority' that we can decide which view is safer and which is a Baatil one? Who are we? Some 9am - 5pm Subway cashiers?

Jannah101
05-02-11, 08:25 PM
How to decide a safer one? Have we reached the level of such piety and 'authority' that we can decide which view is safer and which is a Baatil one? Who are we? Some 9am - 5pm Subway cashiers?

u make no sense. i said if theres doubt then stay away, any1 can do that.

leme give u an example. if u buy meat from a place then someone tells u it might not be halal...u dnt knw for certain whether its halal or not so wot do u do? u stay away just incase. now regarding mawlid, there is doubt on the matter, u agreed to this earlier, so why not stay away? if mawlid is ok then it was never an obligation - so ur safe, but if its not then u wil answer to Allah for it...ryt? its the same with niqab, theres diff of opinion on it so then its safer for sisters to wear it, ryt?
another example is theres 2 hadith, one says if u do 12 raka sunna in a day u get a palace in Jannah, and another says if u do 10 sunnah u get palace in Jannah, its not rocket science to work out which one is the safer option, this is what i meant, i hope i made a bit more sense.

muslim ak
05-02-11, 09:11 PM
u make no sense. i said if theres doubt then stay away, any1 can do that.

to leave things which may allow doubt to creep in is dangerous territory !!

for example muslims pray towards the ka'abah, one could say there is a risk that a person could start praying to the ka'abah instead of Allah so just to be on the safe side don't pray towards the ka'abah... i mean where does it stop ??

sahabahs graves have been demolished by najdis because for them there is a risk of doing shirk there, the same argument is used regarding issues such as tawassul etc etc...

the point regarding mawlid is that many great scholars of Islam allowed it and even
ibn taymiyah and ibn qayyum although against it agreed that the people would be rewarded for their actions.

why cant people that don't want to celebrate the mawlid read what their own scholars have said regarding this issue instead of coming on here dropping their fatwas left right and centre !!

Jannah101
05-02-11, 09:14 PM
to leave things which may allow doubt to creep in is dangerous territory !!

for example muslims pray towards the ka'abah, one could say there is a risk that a person could start praying to the ka'abah instead of Allah so just to be on the safe side don't pray towards the ka'abah... i mean where does it stop ??

sahabahs graves have been demolished by najdis because for them there is a risk of doing shirk there, the same argument is used regarding issues such as tawassul etc etc...

the point regarding mawlid is that many great scholars of Islam allowed it and even
ibn taymiyah and ibn qayyum although against it agreed that the people would be rewarded for their actions.

why cant people that don't want to celebrate the mawlid read what their own scholars have said regarding this issue instead of coming on here dropping their fatwas left right and centre !!

i ain givin any fatwa's. i sed follow qur'an and sunnah and leave the doubtful stuff. if u dont wana do that then dont.

muslim ak
05-02-11, 09:18 PM
Mufti Taqi 'Uthmaani knows more than you. He is a scholar, learn to respect him.
May Allaah guide us all Aameen.

Mufti Taqi Usmani's
Fatwa on Mawlid
Comments on His Fatwa
by Sh. G. F. Haddad

Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim
{ Obey Allah, and Obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. }

"None of you is a believer until he loves me more than his own soul." (Sahih al-Bukhari)

On http://www.albalagh.net/taqi.shtml, a page in English devoted to Mufti Taqi Usmani says verbatim that "[He] is one of the leading Islamic scholars living today. Author of more than 40 books, he is an expert in the fields of Islamic law, Economics and Hadith. For the past 35 years, he has been teaching at the Darul-Uloom in Karachi that was established by his father Mufti Muhammad Shafi, the late Grand Mufti of Pakistan. He also holds a degree in law and is a Judge at the Sharia Appellate Bench of the Supreme Court of Pakistan. He is a consultant to several international Islamic financial institutions and has played a key part in the move toward interest free banking and the establishment of Islamic financial institutions. He is the deputy chairman of the Jeddah based Islamic Fiqh Council of the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC)."

On http://www.albalagh.net/general/rabi-ul-awwal.shtml another page in English features Mufti Taqi Usmani's fatwa on Mawlid.

From the latter page I've excerpted the following statements as they were posted verbatim as of 11 July, 2000, in their order of appearance in the text. I've numbered them for easier perusal and reference. After each excerpt, I've added a few comments according to need, in conformity with the duty enjoined on us by the Prophet of Nasiha - sincere faithfulness to Allah and sincere, faithful advice to the Muslims.

These comments were written in the light of what I have learnt through the immense mercy of Allah Most High at the hands of our Sunni Naqshbandi Shuyukh - may Allah grant them long life and health - at their forefront Mawlana al-Shaykh Nazim al-Haqqani, shedding much-needed light on the numerous misconceptions and misrepresentations of this fatwa.

It is left to the Muslim reader to verify firsthand to what extent such a fatwa by Mufti Taqi Usmani is based on fact and on the sources of Islam which are Qur'an, Sunna, Ijma` and Qiyas. And may Allah send uninterrupted blessings and peace on the first and foremost subject of these lines, Sayyidina Muhammad, and grant him the Wasila and Highmost Station of Intercession for Mankind, and upon his Family and all his Companions. Amin.

Mufti Taqi Usmani said:

1. "Rabi'ul-Awwal is the most significant month in the Islamic history, because humanity has been blessed in this month by the birth of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam."
Comment: This is true, yet the author further down (item #17) annuls the benefit of his own statement by denying the validity of any specific day of that month as an appropriate or preferable date for celebrating Mawlid and goes so far as to condemn the choice of that date as a reprehensible innovation. Then he castigates the highlighting of that month to celebrate Mawlid as well!

2. "Thus the birth of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, was the most significant and the most remarkable event in human history."
Comment: This is a confession by Mufti Taqi `Usmani that the night of the Mawlid Sharif is of greater significance and merit than Laylat al-Qadr which is the position of some of the Maliki Imams as cited by Abu al-`Abbas al-Wansharisi (d. 914) in his encyclopdia of Maliki fatwas titled _al-Mi`yar al-Mu`rab wa al-Jami` al-Mughrib fi Fatawa Ahl Ifriqya wa al-Andalus wa al-Maghrib (11:280-285).

Similarly, the Maliki Hadith Master and Imam, al-Sayyid al-Sharif Muhammad ibn Ja`far al-Kattani stated in his book _al-Yumn wa al-Is`ad bi Mawlid Khayr al-`Ibad_ (p. 21): "The two nights of the distinguished noble birth and the magnificent Prophetic Ascension appear to be the very best of the nights of the world without hesitation nor doubt... and if this is the case then such as these two nights [ MAWLID and MI`RAJ] deserve to be taken henceforth each as a recurring festival among other recurring festivals (`Eid min al-A`yad) and as a seasonal celebration (mawsim) among other seasonal celebrations devoted to good deeds and striving. Therefore those dates should be respected and venerated, the Book of Allah should be recited in them, and in their honor deeds should be performed that indicate joy and happiness at their immense merit as well as thankfulness to Allah Most High for His blessings and favors in them. This the Law in no way denies nor condemns, and no reprimand nor prohibition can be directed at those who perform this whatsoever."

3. "Had there been room in Islamic teachings for the celebration of birthdays or anniversaries, the birthday of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, would have undoubtedly deserved it more than the birthday of any other person. But that is against the nature of Islamic teachings."
Comment: This is a Wahhabi misconception of Usul which was refuted notably by the Ghumari Shuyukh (see item #23), namely, that Tark (not doing something) is NOT a proof that something is condemned or that it is not praiseworthy, as the Prophet did not, in his lifetime, do absolutely everything that was praiseworthy or permissible. The same goes for the early generations. Rather, the criteria for judging if something belongs on the accepted side of Shari`a and is endorsable by the Sunna or not, is to evaluate it in the balance of the Qur'an and Sunna: whatever is confirmed by them is part of them and whatever violates them is rejected.

4. "That is why, unlike Judaism, Christianity, and Hinduism, there are very few festivals in Islam, which provides for only two Eids (Eidul-fitr and Eidul-Adha) during the whole year."
Comment: There are only two `Eids that are sanctioned by the Law as of a required character, but this is not to mean that it is not allowed to have other `Eids metaphorically speaking. For one, the Prophet himself named Jumu`a a `Eid.

Among educated Muslims there is a verse of poetry that goes,

"The day of Jumu`a, the day of `Eid, and the visit of a beloved friend: These are three `Eids for which I thank our Most High Lord."
In fact, every highlighted date in the Islamic calendar is a `Eid, for example the first ten days of Dhu al-Hijja, the Day of `Arafa, the Day of `Ashura, Laylat al-Qadr, and the night of Mi`raj which is the greatest mu`jiza of the Prophet after the Glorious Qur'an. But the Mawlid of the Prophet looms larger and more important than all of the above including the two prescribed `Eids in Islam. Sayyid Muhammad al-Maliki said in his fatwa _Hawl al-Ihtifal bi Dhikra al-Mawlid al-Nabawi al-Sharif_ (p. 8-9): "How many times did we say that the day of the Mawlid of our Master Muhammad is not a `Eid, nor do we consider it a `Eid, because it is BIGGER THAN THE `EID AND GREATER AND NOBLER. A `Eid only comes once a year, as for the celebration of his Mawlid and the consideration of his remembrance and Sira, they must be permanent and not restricted to a particular time nor place!"

5. "The dates of these two Eids do not correspond to the birthday of any of the outstanding persons of Islamic history, nor can their origin be attributed to any particular event of history that had happened in these dates."
Comment: As shown above, it has never been a condition for `Eid that it correspond to a birthday, nor, inversely, does the nature of birthday preclude a day from being considered a `Eid. Secondly, it is patently false that the origin of the two `Eids cannot be attributed to any particular event of history that had happened on these dates as the books of Tafsir are replete with the story of the sacrifice of Ibrahim (as) with his son Isma`il (as) on the occasion of which was offered a huge ram as stated in the Holy Qur'an.

6. "The first event is the completion of the fasts of Ramadan and the second event is the completion of Hajj, another form of worship regarded as one of the four pillars of Islam."
Comment: We already said that the `Eid that takes place at the completion of Hajj has historical connections according to the authorities of Tafsir. We might say also that the `Eid that takes place at the completion of the month of Ramadan, was also given an historical dimension by Allah Most High when He said that fasting is prescribed for us { just as it was prescribed for those before you} . All this shows that Allah Most High did not place these two Pillars in a vacuum but in a historical whole of which Muslims are eminently supposed to be aware and observant, just as the Prophet said in reaction to the Jewish celebration of `Ashura': "We have more right of remembering Musa" i.e. of commemorating the historical circumstance of his deliverance. Most of the Ulema who wrote fatwas on Mawlid adduce this report as a proof of the desirability of the celebration of Mawlid and its licit character in the Law.

7. "The manner prescribed for the celebration of these two Eids (festivals) is also different from non-Islamic festivals. There are no formal processions, illumination or other activities showing formal happiness."
Comment: The manner prescribed for the celebration of these two `Eids falls into two categories: the requirements prescribed in the Law and the customs followed by the people. The latter do *not* have a fixed form and *may* include everything that does not violate the guidelines of the Law. Processions, illumination or other activities showing formal happiness do *not* in themselves violate the guidelines of the Law.

8. "Islam has not prescribed any festival for the birthday of any person, however great or significant he may be. The prophets of Allah are the persons of the highest status amongst all human beings. But the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, or his noble companions never observed the birthday or anniversary of any of them. Even the birthday of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, which was the most happy day for the whole mankind was never celebrated by the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, himself, nor by his blessed Companions."
Comment: Regarding the first phrase: It is true that "Islam has not prescribed any festival for the birthday of any person" but nobody claimed it did. On the other hand, it is untrue that Islam has prescribed NOT to commemorate the birthday of any person, yet this is being claimed by the opponents of Mawlid. As for the rest of the paragraph I am sorry to say it is a blatant lie, the Prophet expressly commemorated his own birthday - as did the early Umma in his wake - by fasting every Monday. He and they treated his birthday as the cause and driving factor (`illa) for this act of devotion as shown in the Sahih and as illustrated by the commentators of those narrations, among them Ibn Khuzayma and his student Ibn Hibban, each one of them in his Sahih. And this suffices as evidence for those endowed with sight.

"[Subheading:] Mention of the Desirability of the Fast of Yawm al-Ithnayn BECAUSE (li'anna) on that Day was Born Rasulullah and on that Day Descended upon Him the Beginning of Revelation." Sahih Ibn Hibban (Arna'ut ed. 8:403).

"Chapter of the Desirability of the Fast of Yawm al-Ithnayn SINCE (idh) the Prophet was Born on Yawm al-Ithnayn and on that Day Revelation Came to Him and on that Day He Died." Sahih Ibn Khuzayma (A`zami ed. 3:298).

9. "In fact, commemorating the birth of a distinguished person has never been prescribed by any religion attributing itself to divine revelation. It was originally a custom prevalent in pagan communities only. Even Christmas, the famous Christian feast commemorating the birth of Jesus Christ finds no mention in the Bible or in the early Christian writings."
Comment: Here we find three errors. First, and this is the gravest error, the author denies that the commemoration of the birth of a distinguished person was ever prescribed by any heavenly religion as if he never heard that the Prophet was ordered to dismount from the Buraq during Isra' and pray at the spot where `Isa (as) was born precisely for that reason and no other. The narration goes, "Then he reached a land where the palaces of al-Shaam became visible to him. Gibril said to him: 'Alight and pray.' He did so and remounted, then the Buraq continued his lightning flight and Gibril said: 'Do you know where you prayed?' He said no. Gibril said: 'You prayed in Bayt Lahm, where `Isa ibn Maryam was born.'" Narrated as part of a longer hadith from Anas by al-Nasa'i with a sound chain and from Shaddad ibn Aws by al-Bayhaqi who declared it sound in Dala'il al-Nubuwwa (2:355-357), and by al-Tabarani in al-Kabir and al-Bazzar with a sound chain as indicated by al-Haythami in Majma` al-Zawa'id and Ibn Hajar in Mukhtasar Zawa'id Musnad al-Bazzar (1:90-91 #32). Secondly, the prescription of the commemoration of the birth of Christ *was* prescribed in the early Christian Church, even if its chronological proximity to the pagan commemoration of the winter solstice was co-opted by the political authorities as a means to recycle prevalent social customs in certain regions including those of pagan origins. Thirdly, what flimsier way to adduce evidence is there than to cite tampered Scriptural texts in order to infer or disinfer a Shari`a ruling? Is Mufti Taqi `Usmani a Christian or Jew addressing Christians or Jews??

10. "In original Islamic resources, also we cannot find any instruction about the celebration of birthdays or death anniversaries. Many Companions of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, passed away during his life-time. His beloved wife Sayyidah Khadijah, Radi-Allahu anha, passed away in Makkah. His beloved uncle Sayyidna Hamzah, Radi-Allahu anhu was brutally slaughtered during the battle of Uhud. But the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, never observed their birthday or their death anniversaries, nor did he ever advise his followers to celebrate his own birthday in Rabi'ul-Awwal."
Comment: The above again shows strange or rather tragic (for such a celebrated author) ignorance of the Sunna. We already established beyond doubt that the Prophet celebrated his birthday by fasting. As for death anniversaries, the Prophet definitely visited his wife and uncle's graves on a regular basis as well as his mother's. Al-Bayhaqi narrates that the Prophet used to visit the graveyard of the martyrs of Uhud annually and punctually - "`ala ra'si kulli hawl". Al-Bayhaqi also narrated in Shu`ab al-Imaan (6:201 #7901) that the Prophet said: "Whoever visits the grave of his parents or the grave of one of them every Friday, he will be forgiven and [his name will] be written among the pious sons." (Man zaara qabra abawayhi aw ahadihima fi kulli Jumu`ah, ghufira lahu wa kutiba barran). And he is without the shadow of a doubt the most pious of all pious sons. Also, al-Bazzar narrates that the Prophet visited the Jannat al-Ma`la graveyard in Makkah, where his dear wife Sayyidah Khadijah was buried and called the whole place a blessed graveyard: "Ni`ma al-Maqbarah Hadhihi." Imam Ja`far al-Sadiq narrated with his chain from al-Hasan ibn `Ali that Fatima the daughter of the Prophet used to visit every Jumu`a the grave of her uncle Hamza ibn `Abd al-Muttalib - may Allah be well-pleased with all of them! - which she had marked with a rock in order to recognize it, and she used to pray and weep there as narrated by `Abd al-Razzaq in his Musannaf, al-Bayhaqi in al-Sunan, al-Hakim in his Mustadrak and he declared its chain sahih, and Ibn `Abd al-Barr in al-Tamhid.

11. "The reason for abstinence from such celebrations is that they divert the attention of people from the real teachings of Islam towards the observance of some formal activities only. Initially, these celebrations may begin with utmost piety and with a bona fide intention to pay homage to a pious person."
Comment: The above is speculation and has no place here. As for the latter sentence, it seems to come verbatim from the deviant book of Muhammad ibn `Abd al-Wahhab titled al-Tawhid.

Comment [from Brother Ahmad I on msa-ec mail list, 11 July 2000]: The Ulama of Deoband celebrated their hundred years anniversary of Darul Uloom Deoband in which they called Indhira Ghandi who was dressed in a Sarrie. She was seated on the stage while hundreds of Ulama were seated on the ground. Was this Islamic? Early Muslims did not celebrate hundred years establishment of Islam which was far more important that the establishment of Darul Uloom Deoband. According to you, our Nabi (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) did not celebrate birthdays and anniversaries. If the Ulama-e-Deoband claim to be true followers of the Sunnah, why then did they celebrate the hundred year anniversary of Darul Uloom Deoband? Was this not a Bid`at?

12. "Yet, the experience shows that the celebration is ultimately mixed up with an element of merrymaking and rejoicing and is generally confused with secular festivals and the secular, and often sinful, activities creep into it gradually. [Next paragraph:] The example of Christmas will again be relevant."
Comment: All this shows how far from the principles of the Shari`a one ends up when free rein is given to speculation and personal or regional pretexts such as the bad things one has experienced or seen in one's province. Has Mufti Taqi Usmani never heard of "merrymaking and rejoicing" in the authentic Sunna? The Sahaba and the Prophet definitely were not, as he seems to imagine, staid officials of rigid and censorious manners although they were the most dignified generation of human beings ever to walk the earth. They knew laughter, merriment, and good humor.

Nor is his harping on "the example of Christmas" when referring to Muslims acceptable. One well-known contributor on the newsgroup soc.religion.islam, `Abd al-Rahman Lomax, said in a thread titled "Re: Al-Mawled ( 6/7 ) : Even

worse!" Date: 22 Sep 1996: "I remember my first 'Eid al-Fitr, in Tucson. This was a largely student community, with a few older Muslims including professors at the University of Arizona at Tucson. My clearest memory is of the sub-teen daughters of some of these families getting up on the tables and dancing to the encouragement of nearly everyone, with drum music coming over the P.A. system. This was not mawlid, this was 'Eid ul-Fitr! Times have changed. But it is not clear to me that the more sober 'Eids I have seen in recent years are closer to the actual sunna than that first 'Eid. I'll leave it to someone else to cite the relevant hadith; suffice it to say that the Prophet did, it appears, encourage having *fun* on 'Eid, and that dancing and at least some form of music were actually encouraged." Following Mufti Taqi Usmani's reasoning in the above paragraph, if enough "bad" displays such as the above had been witnessed on `Eid, then `Eid celebrations should have been banned, either in absolute terms or in temporary and local terms. But isolated incidents are never a proof in ruling for or against something.

13. "The Holy Qur'an has clearly pronounced on the occasion of the last Hajj of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam: "Today, I have completed the teachings of your religion." [Al-Maida 5:3] [Next paragraph:] It means that all the teachings of Islam were communicated to the Muslims through the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam. No one is allowed after it to add any thing to them as a part of religion. What was not a part of religion during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, can never become part of it. Such additions are termed by the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, as Bid'ah or innovation."
Comment: This is the weakest paragraph in the entire fatwa as it is entirely borrowed from the Wahhabi conception of bid`a, which violates the principles and methods of the Jumhur of Sunni `Ulema as to what constitutes bid`a and what does not. The Ulema have clarified this major methodological innovation in many useful publications which we have summarized elsewhere and there is no space nor need to reproduce this material here. Suffice it here to quote the words of Sayyid Muhammad al-Maliki - Allah keep him and all our impeccable Ulema and true Teachers - in one of his fatwas on Mawlid: "There is no doubt that such singing, dancing, reciting of poetry, and banging the drum [as narrated in the authentic Sunna] was for joy at being with the Prophet , nor did he condemn nor frown upon such displays in any way whatsoever. These are common displays of happiness and lawful merriment, and similarly to stand up at the mention of the birth of the Prophet is an ordinary act that shows love and gladness symbolizing the joy of creation: it does not constitute worship, nor law, nor Sunna!"

It is also ironic that the verse they quote: { This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favor unto you} (5:3) was revealed on a Monday, the day of his Mawlid - Allah bless and greet him and his Family - according to some reports narrated by Ibn `Asakir as mentioned by al-Salihi in _Subul al-Huda_ (1:401).

14. "Thus, the observance of the 12th of Rabi'ul-Awwal as a religious feast is not warranted by any verse of the Holy Qur'an or by any teaching of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam."
Comment: Al-Hamdu lillah, the falsehood of the above statement is by now evident on the basis of what was already replied.

15. "Had it been a part of the religion it would have been clearly ordered or practiced by the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, and his blessed companions or, at least, by their immediate pupils. But no example of the celebration of the occasion can be traced out in the early centuries of the Islamic history."
Comment: This is a needless repetition and stands refuted (see paragraphs #3 and again #23).

16. "It was after many centuries [Albalagh Note: According to Maulana Yusuf Ludhinavi it was in the year 604 A.H.] that some monarchs started observing the 12th of Rabi'ul-Awwal as the birthday of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, without a sound religious basis, and the congregations in the name of Maulood or Milad were held where the history of the birth of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, used to be narrated."
Comment: As stated by al-Sayyid Muhammad al-Maliki in his Fatwa _Hawl al-Ihtifal bi Dhikra al-Mawlid al-Nabawi al-Sharif_ (10th ed. p. 15): "The first to observe the celebration of the Mawlid was the Prophet himself by fasting on Mondays because it was the day of his birth as narrated in Sahih Muslim. This is the soundest and most explicit textual proof for the licitness of commemorating the Noble Prophetic Mawlid."

In the light of such a proof what does it matter that "after many centuries some monarchs started observing the 12th of Rabi'ul-Awwal" as the Mawlid date, and who can believe such a lie as to claim that such observance was "without a sound religious basis"? Is this what the reliable authorities say, or is it just the opinion of some latecomers unfamiliar with the differences of the Ulema and the principles of the Shari`a?

When the critics are unable to disprove the lawful on the basis of the foundations of the Religion, they turn to vacuous opinion unaware that in the field of opinion there are plenty of more trusted sources than themselves. Imam al-Dhahabi wrote in his Siyar A`lam al-Nubala' (Arna'ut ed. 22:335-336): He [Muzaffar the King of Irbil] loved charity (sadaqa)... and built four hospices for the poor and sick... and one house for women, one for orphans, one for the homeless, and he himself used to visit the sick... He built a madrasa for the Shafi`is and the Hanafis... HE WOULD FORBID ANY REPREHENSIBLE MATTER TO ENTER INTO HIS COUNTRY... As for his celebration of the Noble Mawlid al-Nabawi, words are too poor to describe it. The people used to come all the way from Iraq and Algeria to attend it. Two wooden dais would be erected and decorated for him and his wife... the celebration would last several days, and a huge quantity of cows and camels would be brought out to be sacrificed and cooked in different ways... Preachers would roam the field exhorting the people. Great sums were spent (as charity). Ibn Dihya compiled a 'Book of Mawlid' for him for which he received 1,000 dinars. He [Muzaffar] was modest, a LOVER OF GOOD, AND A TRUE SUNNI who loved scholars of jurisprudence and scholars of hadith, and was generous even to poets. He was killed in battle according to what is reported."

Similarly, Ibn Kathir said in al-Bidaya wa al-Nihaya (Beirut and Riyadh: Maktabat al-Ma`arif & Maktabat al-Nasr, 1966 ed. 13:136-137): "He [Muzaffar] used to celebrate the noble Mawlid in Rabi` al-Awwal and organize huge festivities for it. He was a wise king, brave, a fierce fighter, intelligent, learned, and just. May Allah have mercy on him and ennoble his grave. Shaykh Abu al-Khattab ibn Dihya compiled for him a book on the Mawlid of the Prophet and named it al-Tanwir fi Mawlid al-Bashir al-Nadhir ("The illumination concerning the birthday of the Bringer of glad tidings and Warner") and the king rewarded him with 1,000 dinars for it. His rule lasted until he died in the year 630 [Hijri] as he was besieging the French in the city of Acca [Acre, Palestine] after a GLORIOUS AND BLAMELESS LIFE."

From the above excerpts one can judge the shameless audacity of the statement of Majlis al-`Ulama or rather al-Juhala' which said:

"MAINTAINING A CUSTOM WHICH WAS ORIGINATED BY IRRELIGIOUS PERSONS. It has already been explained elsewhere in this article that the originators of Meelad custom were irreligious persons. Six hundred years after our Nabi (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam), the irreligious ruler of Irbal, assisted by irreligious learned men, invented and established this custom. Thus, those who organize Meelad functions and those who participate in them are in reality assisting to establish a practise introduced by evil men. They are aiding and abetting in the fostering of a custom which is in total conflict with the Shari'ah of Islam. It is a great crime to maintain and encourage customs and practices which were brought into being by those who had no connection with the Deen, more so, when these customs and practices are a conglomeration of un-Islamic elements".
Observe how they begin with a lie and end with a greater lie, progressing from calling King Muzaffar and the Ulema of the Umma as "irreligious" until they end up saying they "had no connection with the Deen"! Is not the curse of Allah on the heads of the liars?

More importantly, Ibn Kathir himself composed a text on Mawlid, made of hadiths, invocations of blessings on the Prophet , and poetry in praise of him. It is entitled Mawlid Rasulillah sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam, and was edited and published by Salah al-Din al-Munajjid (Beirut: Dar al-Kitab al-Jadid, 1961).

17. "The observance of the 12th of this month as the birthday of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, is not only an innovation having no basis in the Islamic teachings, but the accuracy of this date as the real birthday of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, is also very much doubted."
Comment: Here the author contradicts what he had said in the first paragraph: "Rabi'ul-Awwal is the most significant month in the Islamic history, because humanity has been blessed in this month by the birth of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam." Does this not constitute "a basis in the Islamic teachings" since this Mufti deems himself one such basis and these are his words? As for the specific date of the 12th, it is enough to quote Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali on the matter in his book Lata'if al-Ma`arif (p. 185): "The VAST MAJORITY hold that he [the Prophet, Allah bless and greet him] was born on the Second Day of the Week (al-Ithnayn = "Monday") 12 Rabi` al-Awwal... in the Year of the Elephant."

So it is a good date for such a celebration because there is greater readiness for it in the hearts and minds of the people at that time; and, at

the same time "we do NOT claim that it is Sunna to do celebrate the Mawlid on a specific night and whoever claims this has committed innovation in the Religion, because we should remember him at all times... although the reason to do so becomes stronger in the month of his birth due to the turning of people to that event and their gatherings and their feelings [at that time]." Al-Sayyid Muhammad al-Maliki, Mafahim (10th ed. p. 317).

18. "There are different dates suggested in different traditions, and the majority of the authentic scholars is inclined to hold that the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, was born on the 9th of Rabi'ul-Awwal."
Comment: This is another half-truth in the light of Ibn Rajab's report that the vast majority of the authorities settled on the twelfth. This is also stated in al-Salihi's Subul al-Huda (1:403). Furthermore, by his words "the majority of the authentic scholars" the author apparently only means three contemporaries: Dr. Abu al-Hasan `Ali al-Nadwi, the Egyptian astronomer Mahmud Basha, and Muhammad Sulayman al-Mansur Furi, the latter two footnoted in al-Nadwi's _al-Sira al-Nabawiyya_ (p. 99).

Nor has it been the adab of the true Ulema to scorn what the majority of the Ulema concur on as true and correct, as illustrated by the refined, scholarly style of our teacher Dr. Nur al-Din `Itr in mentioning both dates in his Mawlid book, al-Nafahat al-`Itriyya fi Sirat Khayr al-Bariyya (p. 5-6): "He was born on the ninth of Rabi` al-Awwal according to the verification of some of the Imams or on the 12th according to the most famous position (al-mashhur) in the Umma." The Moroccan Shaykh of Tanalt (Great Atlas chain in South Morocco) al-Dadisi Muhammad al-Ghali did not even mention the 9th in his Sira compendium _Laft al-Anzar ila Qurrat al-Absar fi Sirat al-Mushaffa` al-Mukhtar_ (p. 38-39): "On the day of al-Ithnayn in the most radiant month, on the 3rd or the 12th or the 8th of Rabi` al-Awwal." Nor does the hadith master al-Salihi mention the 9th at all in his encyclopedia of all Siras, Subul al-Huda wa al-Rashad fi Sirat Khayr al-`Ibad (1:403) but only, in order of strength among the Ulema: the 12th, 8th, 10th [preferred by al-Dhahabi in the Siyar (1:21) after his teacher Abu Muhammad al-Dimyati], 2nd, 17th, 18th, or 1st of Rabi` al-Awwal.

The date of the 12th was also given precedence over all other dates by Dr. Muhammad Abu Shuhba in his 1,400-page _al-Sira al-Nabawiyya_ (1:173), while Dr. Sa`id Ramadan al-Buti mentions the 12th exclusively of any other date in his _Fiqh al-Sira al-Nabawiyya_ (10th ed.). Where, then, are the irresponsibly-claimed "majority of the authentic scholars" or are all the above scholars frauds?

Furthermore, the author himself categorically stated at the beginning of his fatwa (item #1) that "Rabi'ul-Awwal is the most significant month in Islamic history because humanity was blessed in this month by the birth of the Holy Prophet " although there are also other months reported in the Sunna for the event of his noble birth, such as Safar, Rajab, Ramadan, and Rabi` al-Thani, cf. Ibn Rajab, Lata'if (p. 184) and al-Haytami, al-Minah al-Makkiyya (1:181). If the author does not know this discrepancy in relation to the month then perhaps there are gaps in his knowledge of the facts in relation to the day and other aspects as well. And if the author does know this discrepancy in relation to the months then why does he speak in categorical terms to affirm the month of Rabi` al-Awwal then turns dubious when it comes to the day of the 12th?

19. "This difference of opinion is another evidence to prove that the observance of the birthday is not a part of the religion, otherwise its exact date would have been preserved with accuracy."
Comment: Another wholly original and innovative speculative analogy leading to a false proof without firm basis in the Religion, what is more, couched in unscholarly terminology - "not part of the Religion" - to avoid stating clearly once and for all if such an observance is permitted or not. There has been, many times, a difference of opinion in our times on the exact date of the beginning of the months of Ramadan and Dhu al-Hijja, but does this have any bearing whatsoever on the fact that fasting and pilgrimage are part of the Religion?!

In fact, not only the day, month, and (most emphatically) year of the Mawlid are generally agreed upon but the specific time of day when he was born can also be known: according to the Ghawth Sidi `Abd al-`Aziz al-Dabbagh in al-Ibriz, the Prophet was born in the last third of the night, and this is supported by al-Hakim's narration from `A'isha and al-Tabarani, al-Bayhaqi, and Ibn al-Sakan's from Fatima bint `Abd Allah al-Thaqafiyya; although the Hadith Master Zayn al-Din al-`Iraqi in his _al-Mawrid al-Hani fi al-Mawlid al-Sani_ adduces from the Siyar evidence that it took place in the daytime; and the Sunan state at noon - mursal from Sa`id ibn al-Musayyib - as well as Ibn Dihya and al-Zarkashi in his _Sharh al-Burda_, but Allah Almighty knows best and the Prophet knows best.

20. "The narration of his pious biography (the Seerah) in itself is a pious act, which invites the divine blessings, but the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah have not prescribed a particular time or method for it. This pious act should be performed in all the months and at all the times."
Comment: According to Usmani's own criterion, the above advice is an invitation to bid`a because conferences and talks about the Sira have no precedent in the Sunna nor in the practice of the pious early centuries! Rather, the Sunna shows that the Sahaba would stand and declaim/sing poetry in praise of the Prophet and that he would reward them lavishly as he did with Ka`b, `Abd Allah ibn Rawaha, Hassan ibn Thabit, Qurra ibn Hubayr and many others.

As for the assertion that "this pious act should be performed in all the months and at all the times" its absurdity is evident for all to see in light of the prohibition of the same act in the month of Rabi` al-Awwal and specifically the 12th of that month, although these two times fall within the time frame of "all the months and at all the times"!

21. "The month of Rabi'ul-Awwal has not been designated by the Shariah as a special season for holding such congregations to commemorate the birth or life of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam."
Comment: If someone repeats a false statement enough times, it might in the end pass for true among those whom Allah wishes to mislead, but not among those to whom He grants discernment.

22. "It is thus an innovation (Bid'ah) to restrict the Seerah meetings to the month of Rabi'ul Awwal only, or to believe that the meetings held in this month are worthy of more reward than the meetings held on any other date during the year."
Comment: As was just replied, the Seerah meetings themselves are a bid`a according to this man's own criterion. This new, imposed condition that such meetings must not be restricted to a particular month, shows that he readily considers those meetings a part of the Shari`a when he himself said that Allah has completed the Religion, and such meetings were neither revealed to the Prophet as part of it nor practiced by the early generations! And what is the status of someone who declares the belief of the vast majority of the Muslims a bid`a? Allah is our recourse and help against the entanglements of would-be legislators who break the ranks of Sunni unity and ask the people to follow them in their errings.

23. "In fact, the Companions of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, used to commemorate the life of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, throughout the year, not only by studying and conveying his message to others, but also by following his way of life and acting upon his teachings in each and every branch of their activities, and this is exactly what a Muslim is required and supposed to do."
Comment: The above shows that Mufti Taqi Usmani admits that the principle of commemorating the life of the Holy Prophet was alive and well among the Companions and therefore not an innovation. However, he neglects to mention - or does not seem to know - that the Companions not only "studied" and "conveyed his message to others," but also *recited and sang poetry* in his honor both in his lifetime and after!

As for the often-heard claim of would-be censors that "the Prophet and the Companions never celebrated the Mawlid as it is celebrated today", this never formed proof for the undesirability or prohibitiveness of anything in the Law, Mawlid or otherwise. This was demonstrated at length by al-Sayyid `Abd Allah al-Ghumari in his epistle _Husn al-Tafahhum wa al-Dark li Mas'alat al-Tark_ ("Right Comprehension and Understanding the Issue of 'Not Doing Something'") reprinted by Dar al-Awqaf in Dubai, United Arab Emirates.

24. "By this we do not mean that the Seerah meetings should not be held in the month of Rabi'ul-Awwal. The point is only that they should not be restricted to it, nor should it be believed that the Shariah has laid any kind of emphasis on holding such meetings in this particular month."
Comment: Let those who wish hold them in Rabi` al-Awwal and let those who wish hold them in any other month. { And for this let all those strive who strive for bliss} (Q 83:26).

25. "It is often observed, especially in the Western countries, that the people hold the Seerah meetings where men and women sit together without observing the rules of hijab prescribed by the Shariah. The teachings of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, are obviously against such mixed gatherings. How can a Seerah meeting bring fruits where such fundamental teachings of the Shariah are openly violated?"
This never invalidates the ruling of desirability that applies to the principle.

Comment [from Brother Ahmad I on msa-ec mail list, 11 July 2000]:

Allama Shaami (radi Allahu anhu) states: "One must not leave visiting the graves just because some illegal activities are taking place, for example, inter-mingling of sexes. Mustahabbaat (recommended acts) should not be left out because of this type of illegal activities. It is necessary for the people to visit the graves *and* stop the Bid`a". (Fatawa Shaami: Kitabul Jana'iz - Discussion on visiting the graves)

Allama Shaami (radi Allahu anhu) has stated categorically that inter-mingling of sexes will not make any Mustahab act Haraam or avoided. There were idols in the Kaaba before Makkah was conquered, but Muslims did not leave out performing the Tawaaf (circumbulation) or Umrah because of the idols. Yes,when Almighty Allah gave them the power, they eventually destroyed the idols.

When people go for Haj, there is inter-mingling of sexes at the airport, in the plane, during Tawaaf,at Mina and at Muzdalifah, yet no one puts a stop to Hajj. In Meelad gatherings, at least men and women sit separately and women are with Hijab. In the Nikah assembly, inter-mingling of sexes occurs and most of the women do not come with Shar`i Hijab. Will the Majlisul Ulama issue Fatwas condemning Nikah gathering to be Haraam? If not, why then is your entire effort spent to make Meelaad functions Haraam?

26. "In some meetings the Na'ts (poems) in the memory of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, are recited by the women before the male audience, sometimes with music, which is totally against the instructions of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam. It is clearly prohibited by the Shariah to hold such meetings or to participate in them, because it is not only a violation of the Shariah rules, but it is an affront to the sanctity of the Seerah of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam."
Comment: This has already been answered in the previous paragraph but we might add that the Prophet on so many public and private occasions heard female singers and did not stop them from their activity as long as what they were reciting was approved by the law, namely Na`at! { Truly it is not their eyes that are blind, but their hearts which are in their breasts} (22:46).

27. "All other activities, often practiced on the twelfth of Rabi'ul-Awwal, like holding processions, constructing the mock tombs of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, and illumination of the buildings and the roads are not warranted by any rule of the Shariah. Rather they are based on conscious or unconscious imitation of certain other religions. No example of such activities can be traced out from the earlier Islamic history."
Comment: It seems that in this single fatwa the author multiplies the indications that his knowledge of Islamic history, the Sunna, the Sira, and the principle of the Shari`a is full of gaps. Following are examples of the public celebration of the Mawlid from the sixth to the tenth centuries, some of them comprising most of the elements that Usmani claims were never present in earlier Islamic history:

- Ibn Jubayr (540-614) wrote in his Rihal ("Travels"), p. 114-115: "This blessed place [the house of the Prophet] is opened, and all men enter it to derive blessing from it (mutabarrikin bihi), on every Monday of the month of Rabi` al-Awwal; for on that day and in that month was born the Prophet."

- The 7th-century historians Abul `Abbas al-`Azafi and his son Abul Qasim al-`Azafi wrote in their unpublished Kitab ad-Durr al-Munazzam: "Pious pilgrims and prominent travellers testified that, on the day of the mawlid in Mecca, no activities are undertaken, and nothing is sold or bought, except by the people who are busy visiting his noble birthplace, and rush to it. On this day the Ka`ba is opened and visited."

- The famous eighth-century historian Ibn Battuta relates in his Rihla (1:309 and 1:347), that on every Friday, after the salat, and on the birthday of the Prophet, the door of Ka`ba is opened by the head of the Banu Shayba, the doorkeepers of the Ka`ba, and that on the Mawlid, the Shafi`i qadi (head judge) of Mecca, Najmuddin Muhammad Ibn al-Imam Muhyiddin al-Tabari, distributes food to the shurafa' (descendants of the Prophet) and to all the other people of Mecca.

- The historian Ibn Zahira al-Hanafi in his al-Jami` al-Latif fi Fadl Makka wa Ahliha, p. 326; Imam Ibn Hajar al-Haytami in his Kitab al-Mawlid al-Sharif al-Mu`azzam; and the historian al-Nahrawali in al-I`lam bi-A`lam Bayt Allah al-Haram, p. 205 said that each year on the 12th of Rabi` al-Awwal, after the salat al-Maghrib, the four qadis of Mecca (representing the Four Schools) and large groups of people including the fuqaha' (scholars) and fudala' (notables) of Mecca, shaykhs, zawiya teachers and their students, ru'asa' (magistrates), and muta`ammamin (scholars) leave the mosque and set out collectively for a visit to the birthplace of the Prophet, shouting out dhikr and tahlil (LA ILAHA ILLALLAH). The houses on the route are illuminated with numerous lanterns and large candles, and a great many people are out and about. They all wear their best attire and take their children with them. Having reached the birthplace, inside a special sermon for the occasion of the birthday of the Prophet e is delivered, mentioning the miracles (karamat) that took place on that occasion. Hereafter the du`a' for the Sultan (i.e. the Caliph), the Emir of Mecca, and the Shafi`i qadi is performed and all pray humbly. Shortly before the salat al-`Isha', the whole party returns from the birthplace of the Prophet e to the Great Mosque, which is almost overcrowded, and all sit down in rows at the foot of the Maqam Ibrahim. In the mosque, a preacher first mentions the tahmid (AL HAMDULILLAH) and the tahlil, and once again the du`a' for the Sultan, the Emir, and the Shafi`i qadi is performed. After this the call for the Salat al-`Isha' is made. After the salat, the crowd breaks up.

- A similar description is given by al-Diyarbakri (d. 960) in his massive Sira titled Ta'rikh al-Khamis fi Khabar Anfasi Nafis.

28. "What is really important with regard to the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, is, first, to follow his teachings, and second to make his pious Seerah available to every Muslim, to preserve it in the hearts of the Muslims from the very childhood, to educate the family members to run their lives according to it and to hold it as the most glorious example of the human conduct the universe has ever witnessed -- and all this with utmost love and reverence, not manifested by some formal activities only, but also through actual behavior of following the Sunnah."
Comment: There is nothing in the principle of Mawlid gatherings, Qur'an and Na`at recitation, and distribution of food and sweets except what follows the Prophetic teachings, increases knowledge of his Sira among the Muslims, stimulates love for him in their hearts, and encourages them to educate their families according to Islamic principles from the cradle to the grave, "with utmost love and reverence, not manifested by some formal activities only, but also through actual behavior of following the Sunnah"!

29. "This cannot be done by merely holding processions and illuminating the walls. This requires constant and consistent efforts and a meaningful program of education and training."
Comment: No-one disagrees with the above while the rest of the fatwa is mostly wrong and should be ignored.

Blessings and peace on our Master the Messenger of Allah, his Family, and all his Companions, and praise belongs to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.

muslim ak
05-02-11, 09:20 PM
self delete

AbuMubarak
05-02-11, 09:21 PM
we are going to cut down a miswak tree and lay out presents for the kids, and sing nasheeds, and have a joyous time.

i got a special gift for the wife, and we will wait for st ahmad to arrive and his 12 camels.

but we will not hang ornaments on the tree, that would be a bidah

al faqeer
05-02-11, 09:22 PM
Its bida'a to signal out a specific day to hold the gathering because of the birth of the nabi (saw) none of the sahaba (ra) have done this, nor did the nabi (saw) celebrate the bdays of our fathers Ibrahim (as), Isa (as) etc. This came way after the nabi (saw) time.

If this was a special event then wouldnt the nabi (saw) address this to his ummah?

If your want to celebrate the nabi (saw) bday then follow by his example all year round, hold gatherings everymonth, make sure your intentions are nothing to do with the nabi (saw) bday but an act of Ibadah that you would do any other day.

This is a bit like the Christians celebrating the birth of Isa (As) which they claim to be on the 25th december.

Again scholars have agreed the nabi (saw) was born on the 9th and died on the 12th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwDJkL-Ywvs (this sums it up)

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/books/95

I want someone to provide proof from the Qur'an and sunnah that the nabi (saw) or his sahabas (ra) have done this.

Its not Singled out one day , its done right round the year more than once a week , so you have no case really .

muslim ak
05-02-11, 09:22 PM
i ain givin any fatwa's. i sed follow qur'an and sunnah and leave the doubtful stuff. if u dont wana do that then dont.

i was speaking in general not specifically at you

al faqeer
05-02-11, 09:23 PM
Mawlid is a bidd'ah full stop

Its not and you have been refuted :)

Refute what i posted one point at a time , i see you made as if you didnt see it eh ? :)

..wadi..
06-02-11, 12:32 AM
ITs Nothing new in religion , its Ibaadah already done by all Muslims , only difference is that its a gathering that should be in the boundaries of shariah .

Quran , Seerah , poetry .

So its nothing new .

Ok. Insha'Allah you'll lemme know when you find something that says the Prophet said to do it or the Qur'an says to do it.

muslim ak
06-02-11, 12:56 AM
Ok. Insha'Allah you'll lemme know when you find something that says the Prophet said to do it or the Qur'an says to do it.

maybe you can let us know if the Prophet peace be upon or the Quran told us to:

pray taraweeh in one congregation

compile the Quran into one book

add diacritical marks to the Quran

add to the Mushaf the tashkeel so that you know a given letter has a fathah and not a dummah

add to the Mushaf numbers to mark the ends of ayat and add symbols to mark places of sajdah

add an extra adaan in Jummah prayer

build minarets

mihrabs in masjid

taqleed of the four schools of Fiqh

fixing congregational prayer times with the clock times

..wadi..
06-02-11, 02:28 AM
maybe you can let us know..

No, unfortunately i can't. Can you?

Al-Shifa
06-02-11, 05:29 AM
My dear brothers and sisters

To sum it up once for all, we will go step by step and prove this right from the Holy Qur'an. i will put simple question and you please answer it honestly by your heart.

1-Do you think the birth or sending of the Holy Prophet, the Biggest Mercy of Allah (swt)???

If you answer it yes, then congratualtions to you and may Allah give you more knowledge.

And if your answer is No, then below is the verse of the Holy Qur'an to refute you.

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلاَّ رَحْمَةً لِلْعَالَمِينَ
And we did not send you except mercy for all worlds. 21:107—

2- Do you think birth of the Holy Prophet the Greatest Favor/Blessing of Allah (swt) on believers???

If your answer is Yes, then Mabrook to you.
And if your answer is No, then read belwo verdict of the Holy Qur'an and correct yourself.

لَقَدْ مَنَّ اللَّهُ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ إِذْ بَعَثَ فِيهِمْ رَسُولاً
Allah has indeed bestowed a great favour upon the Muslims, that He sent to them a Noble Messenger from among them, 3:164

Now it is established, that birth of the Holy Prophet (may Allah exalt his mention) is the Biggest Mercy and the Greatest Favor of Allah (swt) on believers and on this universe.

3- What should we do at the occasion when Allah (swt) blesses us with His Favor and Mercy???

If you know the answer, good, if you don't know, Let us ask the Holy Qur'an itself.


قُلْ بِفَضْلِ اللَّهِ وَبِرَحْمَتِهِ فَبِذَلِكَ فَلْيَفْرَحُوا

Upon Allah’s favour and upon His mercy, upon these should the people rejoice. 10:58

A N D

وَأَمَّا بِنِعْمَةِ رَبِّكَ فَحَدِّثْ
And abundantly proclaim the favours of your Lord. 93:11


And this is what is called CELEBRATION !!!!! i hope it is conveyed...

Al-Shifa
06-02-11, 05:56 AM
Now, regarding the time of Celebration ei Why 12 Rabi ul Awwal?

My dear brothers and sisters, if you celebrate this in Muharram, in Safar, Rabi Awwal, Rabi Thani or Rajab, Shaban or in any month of the year, or any day of the month or any hour of the day or any minute of the hour or any second of the minute, i will be with you in this celebration. In fact, every thing of this univers is with you in this celebration.

if you are doing dhikr of Allah (swt), you are celebrating the Holy Birth. because you would not be doing so if this Great Prophet of Allah has not come to you.

if you are worshipping Allah (swt) alone, you are celebrating this. If you are eating according to sunnah, you are celebrating this Holy Birht. If you are drinking, you are celebrating, If you are sitting, standing, walking, talking with Imaan, My dear, You are Celebrating the Holy Birth of this Great Prophet of Allah (swt).

So wipe out all waswaas from your heart and only remember that you love this Great Messenger of Allah (may Allah exalt his mention furhter) for whom Allah (swt) says in the Holy Qur'an,

لا تَرْفَعُوا أَصْوَاتَكُمْ فَوْقَ صَوْتِ النَّبِيِّ وَلا تَجْهَرُوا لَهُ بِالْقَوْلِ كَجَهْرِ بَعْضِكُمْ لِبَعْضٍ أَنْ تَحْبَطَ أَعْمَالُكُمْ وَأَنْتُمْ لا تَشْعُرُونَ

O People who Believe! Do not raise your voices higher than the voice of the Prophet, nor speak to him loudly the way you shout to one another, lest your deeds go to waste whilst you are unaware.
(Faith will go waste due to the slightest disrespect towards the Holy Prophet - peace and blessings be upon him. To honour him is part of faith. To disrespect him is blasphemy.)

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 06:11 AM
we tried the 1442 candles last year, the cake was too small, it set off smoke detectors, the fire department came, and they gave me a $2,000 fine.

dont try that at home

the neighbors thought we were holding a seance

al faqeer
06-02-11, 06:56 AM
we are going to cut down a miswak tree and lay out presents for the kids, and sing nasheeds, and have a joyous time.

i got a special gift for the wife, and we will wait for st ahmad to arrive and his 12 camels.

but we will not hang ornaments on the tree, that would be a bidah

Good for you , better than C4 eh ? :)

al faqeer
06-02-11, 06:59 AM
Ok. Insha'Allah you'll lemme know when you find something that says the Prophet said to do it or the Qur'an says to do it.

I dont have to do that , since the Quran has ordered us to be happy " Falyafra7u" , where you get your manhaj from is your problem not mine .

You dont follow the salaf period , you follow people who came 700 years after . So you have no case at all .

I have refuted Your Bidah claims above , non of you have refuted me so far .

Al_Ghurabaa
06-02-11, 07:27 AM
All I have to say is if the prophet (saw) were alive with us today, do you honestly think he would want his birthday being celebrated? Think about it.

al faqeer
06-02-11, 07:30 AM
All I have to say is if the prophet (saw) were alive with us today, do you honestly think he would want his birthday being celebrated? Think about it.

First of all your statement is incorrect , The prophet PBUH died a physical death on the Dunya , as for his present continuous status its left as Allahu a3lam like the rest of the prophets Who rank higher than the Shuhadaa whom we already know are alive and Allah SWT gives them .

And yes Sayidina Mu7ammad PBUH called the ones who loved him and did not see him his brothers , and love comes first then following , since you cant follow something you dont love .

Al_Ghurabaa
06-02-11, 07:37 AM
First of all your statement is incorrect , The prophet PBUH died a physical death on the Dunya , as for his present continuous status its left as Allahu a3lam like the rest of the prophets Who rank higher than the Shuhadaa whom we already know are alive and Allah SWT gives them .

And yes Sayidina Mu7ammad PBUH called the ones who loved him and did not see him his brothers , and love comes first then following , since you cant follow something you dont love .

I meant if he was with us physically. And how does what you just said prove in any way that he would want his birthday to be celebrated? I love my mom but I don't celebrate her birthday and she knows I love her because I show it in many different ways not once a year on her birthday.

al faqeer
06-02-11, 08:01 AM
I meant if he was with us physically. And how does what you just said prove in any way that he would want his birthday to be celebrated? I love my mom but I don't celebrate her birthday and she knows I love her because I show it in many different ways not once a year on her birthday.

We dont make a cake and light candles mate , Your Mum is not the mercy to all the worlds may Allah Give her health and Umur Ameen .

Reading Quran , Seerah , praising Allah , making salawat how is that wrong ? .

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 08:23 AM
i think we should not just celebrate the Prophet's birthday, but also Musa, Ibrahim, Hagar, Isma'il, Isa (dec 25th is already taken). Why stop at just the Last Messenger?

al faqeer
06-02-11, 09:39 AM
i think we should not just celebrate the Prophet's birthday, but also Musa, Ibrahim, Hagar, Isma'il, Isa (dec 25th is already taken). Why stop at just the Last Messenger?

Cause they were not Khaatam An Nabiyeen and not Ra7matun Lil 3aalameen , A Mercy for all the worlds and We are not obliged to love them more than ourselves , our parents and everything else except Allah SWT :) .

Ibadah
06-02-11, 11:42 AM
Its not Singled out one day , its done right round the year more than once a week , so you have no case really .

Yea sure it does, so will you be holding gatherings on the 12th then? If yes, why not do it on the 10th? hmm thats why i see masjids mainly on the 12th of Rabbi Al-Awwal where people come like ants and its mainly pakistani masjids that do this, flags waving about, chanting etc etc, i asked a brother last time, oh so why do you celebrate the nabi (saw) bday, his reply was, dont you celebrate your own? And isnt the nabi (saw) life more precious then yours? His argument went straight out the window, as i replied but akhi bdays are haraam.

Now the ulema have agreed the nabi (saw) died on the 12th and was born on the 9th, so are you people celebrating his death?

Also again, as someone else mentioned, when one is in doubt then its best to avoid it as you will not be answerable to Allah (swt). This also reminds me of the month of shabaan.

If you want to recite the Qur'an, teach the seerah of our nabi (saw), read the hadith, then alhumdulilah do this anytime of the week, but leave out the excuse of celebrating the birth of the nabi (saw).

Even this cute 2 yr old sister knows bdays of the nabi (saw) is bid'ah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07uZ2MbP2GI&feature=related (from 1.37)

al faqeer
06-02-11, 12:06 PM
Yea sure it does, so will you be holding gatherings on the 12th then? If yes, why not do it on the 10th? hmm thats why i see masjids mainly on the 12th of Rabbi Al-Awwal where people come like ants and its mainly pakistani masjids that do this, flags waving about, chanting etc etc, i asked a brother last time, oh so why do you celebrate the nabi (saw) bday, his reply was, dont you celebrate your own? And isnt the nabi (saw) life more precious then yours? His argument went straight out the window, as i replied but akhi bdays are haraam.

Now the ulema have agreed the nabi (saw) died on the 12th and was born on the 9th, so are you people celebrating his death?

Also again, as someone else mentioned, when one is in doubt then its best to avoid it as you will not be answerable to Allah (swt). This also reminds me of the month of shabaan.

If you want to recite the Qur'an, teach the seerah of our nabi (saw), read the hadith, then alhumdulilah do this anytime of the week, but leave out the excuse of celebrating the birth of the nabi (saw).

Even this cute 2 yr old sister knows bdays of the nabi (saw) is bid'ah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07uZ2MbP2GI&feature=related (from 1.37)

Well Come rabea3 alawal Here in Makkah and Madeenah we start having mawlids from the 1st of Rabea3 alawal and in most arab countries its done all round the year weekly here as well .

I am not sure where u are at .

Al_Ghurabaa
06-02-11, 12:13 PM
We dont make a cake and light candles mate , Your Mum is not the mercy to all the worlds may Allah Give her health and Umur Ameen .

Reading Quran , Seerah , praising Allah , making salawat how is that wrong ? .

Ameen. My point was to show that you don't have to celebrate someones birthday to show you love someone. You show you love someone by doing what they ask you to do, staying away from what they forbid you to do, and following their example. That's the best way of showing love. Also what makes reading Quran, seerah and praising Allah on the mawlid different from doing it any other night? Do you think you receive a higher reward for doing it that night?

al faqeer
06-02-11, 12:16 PM
Ameen. My point was to show that you don't have to celebrate someones birthday to show you love someone. You show you love someone by doing what they ask you to do, staying away from what they forbid you to do, and following their example. That's the best way of showing love. Also what makes reading Quran, seerah and praising Allah on the mawlid different from doing it any other night? Do you think you receive a higher reward for doing it that night?

No wrong again , you cant follow someone you dont love , and In Islam we are ordered to love the prophet PBUH more than ourselves and our parents first of all , only the love of Allah SWT requires following of Sayidina Mu7ammad PBUH as the Quran tells us .

We dont do it on one night we do it 2wice a week all round the year :D i think its the 1000th time i said that on this forum LOL .

..wadi..
06-02-11, 12:49 PM
I dont have to do that , since the Quran has ordered us to be happy

:rotfl: Classic!

al faqeer
06-02-11, 01:13 PM
Post the full quote and , refute it :D

So you the one who is more than Classic .

Every single argument you lot come up with is the easiest to debunk as you can see throughout these threads .

Al_Ghurabaa
06-02-11, 01:18 PM
No wrong again , you cant follow someone you dont love , and In Islam we are ordered to love the prophet PBUH more than ourselves and our parents first of all , only the love of Allah SWT requires following of Sayidina Mu7ammad PBUH as the Quran tells us .

We dont do it on one night we do it 2wice a week all round the year :D i think its the 1000th time i said that on this forum LOL .

Ok who says I don't love the prophet (saw)? Of course I love him more than myself, my parents, and anything in this world. I just don't celebrate his birthday because I feel like he would not want us to do that. The sahaba loved him more than anyone of us alive today yet they did not even celebrate his birthday.

Who's we? I'm pretty sure the majority of the Muslims who celebrate mawlid only do it once a year.

samin62
06-02-11, 01:21 PM
:rotfl: Classic!

^such wisdom and powerful daleel, brother wadi, you should really stop, he is just too good to be beat.

al faqeer
06-02-11, 01:22 PM
Ok who says I don't love the prophet (saw)? Of course I love him more than myself, my parents, and anything in this world. I just don't celebrate his birthday because I feel like he would not want us to do that. The sahaba loved him more than anyone of us alive today yet they did not even celebrate his birthday.

Who's we? I'm pretty sure the majority of the Muslims who celebrate mawlid only do it once a year.

They were with him thats why they were the Sahaaba they didnt need to .

The Majority of Muslims celebrate it all round the year , whehter Indonesia , Malaysia , Egypt , syria , its a weekly event even here in Madeenah and Makkah we do it more than 3 times a week and on fridays we read the Burdah .

So i am telling you the only argument you lot have is the one days thing which to start with you are wrong on .

al faqeer
06-02-11, 01:22 PM
^such wisdom and powerful daleel, brother wadi, you should really stop, he is just too good to be beat.

You better believe it :) ( get used to that quote) .

Al_Ghurabaa
06-02-11, 01:34 PM
They were with him thats why they were the Sahaaba they didnt need to .

The Majority of Muslims celebrate it all round the year , whehter Indonesia , Malaysia , Egypt , syria , its a weekly event even here in Madeenah and Makkah we do it more than 3 times a week and on fridays we read the Burdah .

So i am telling you the only argument you lot have is the one days thing which to start with you are wrong on .



Ok well heres some information regardjng the burdah:

Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:*

The qaseedah or ode al-Burdah is regarded as one of the most famous poems in praise of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), if not the most famous. It was written by al-Busayri, whose full name was Muhammad ibn Sa‘eed ibn Hammaad al-Sunhaaji. He was born in 608 AH and died in 696 AH.*

It was said that the reason for his composing it was that al-Busayri was afflicted by a chronic disease, and no remedy was of any help; he used to send a great deal of blessings (salawaat) upon the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) until he saw the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) in a dream one night, and he covered him with his cloak (burdah), and when al-Busayri woke up, he stood up and there was no trace of sickness in him, so he composed this qaseedah. And Allah knows best whether this story is true or not.*

Secondly:*

The poem referred to includes blatant and obvious kufr and heresy. The scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa‘ah have studied it and criticised it, pointing out its faults and the ways in which it is contrary to the beliefs of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa‘ah.*

Among the most prominent verses for which this poem has been criticised are the following:*

1.**** O noblest of creation, I have no one but you to turn to except you when major calamity strikes.

2.**** If you do not take my hand out if kindness on the Day of Resurrection, then what great trouble I will be in.

3.**** This world and the Hereafter are part of what you control, and part of your knowledge is the knowledge of al-Lawh al-Mahfooz and the Pen

4.**** Stay away from the way of the Christians in praising their Prophet, then (after that) praise him in any way you want

5.**** If he were to perform miracles commensurate with his real status, his name would bring dead people back to life.

6.**** I have a connection to him because I am called Muhammad as he is, and he is the kindest of creation in taking care of this connection.*

Thirdly:*

Some of the comments of the scholars, commenting on and criticising these lines of verse:*

1.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab said:*

With regard to control (of this world and the Hereafter), we will discuss it. Allah says: “The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)” [al-Faatihah 1:4]. Its meaning according to all mufassireen is as Allah explained it in the verse in which He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And what will make you know what the Day of Recompense is?

18.*Again, what will make you know what the Day of Recompense is?

19.*(It will be) the Day when no person shall have power (to do anything) for another, and the Decision, that Day, will be (wholly) with Allaah”

[al-Infitaar 82:17-19].*

The one who understands the interpretation of this verse and realises that Allah will be the sole Sovereign (and controller) of that Day in particular, even though He is the Sovereign (and controller) of all days, that Day and others, will realise that it is emphasising this important matter (that Allah is the Sovereign and controller), because of knowledge of which a person may enter Paradise and because of ignorance of which he may enter Hell. What a serious matter it is; if a man were to travel for more than twenty years to learn about it, that would not be too much. What comparison can there be between this concept, believing in what the Qur’aan states clearly, as well as the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him): “O Faatimah bint Muhammad, I cannot help you before Allah in any way”, and the words of the author of al-Burdah:

“O Messenger of Allah, undoubtedly your high position will enable you to help me when al-Kareem [Allah] takes the name of al-Muntaqim [the Avenger - i.e., on the Day of Resurrection].

I have a connection with him because my name is Muhammad and he is the kindest of all creation in taking care of this connection.

If you do not take my hand out of kindness on the Day of Resurrection, then what great trouble I will be in.”*

Let the one who is honest with himself and those who are infatuated with it and those who claim to be scholars but prefer to recite this rather than reciting the Qur'aan ponder the meanings and implications of these lines of verse. Could any person believe in these lines of poetry and at the same time believe in the words of Allah (interpretation of the meaning): “(It will be) the Day when no person shall have power (to do anything) for another, and the Decision, that Day, will be (wholly) with Allaah” [al-Infitaar 82:17-19] and the words of the Prophet, “O Faatimah bint Muhammad, I cannot help you before Allah in any way”? No, by Allah, no, by Allah, no by Allah, except if one may believe that Moosa was truthful and Pharaoh was truthful at the same time, or that Muhammad was following the path of truth and Abu Jahl was following the path of truth at the same time. No, by Allah, they are not equal and will never meet until the head of the crow turns grey.*

One who examines and understands this issue and knows al-Burdah and those who are infatuated with it, will understand that Islam has become a stranger once again. End quote.*

Tafseer Soorat al-Faatihah, by Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab, 5/13*

2.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Hasan Aal al-Shaykh (may Allah have mercy on him) said:*

From ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Hasan and his son ‘Abd al-Lateef to ‘Abd al-Khaaliq al-Hifzi:*

Peace be upon you and the mercy of Allah and His blessings. To proceed:*

We heard two years ago that you were interested in al-Burdah by al-Busayri, but it contains major shirk that is not hidden. For example he says “O noblest of creation, I have no one to turn to except you…” and so on until the end of the poem, in which he asks for reward in the Hereafter from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) alone.*

The fact that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) is the best of the Prophets does not mean that he may be allowed exclusively something that Allah has forbidden to His slaves in totality; rather he is enjoined to forbade it and disavow it, as the Messiah son of Maryam disavowed it in the verses at the end of Soorat al-Maa’idah and as the angels disavowed it in Soorat Saba’.*

With regard to turning to, this is the same as seeking refuge; seeking refuge is to ward off evil and turning to is to attain something good. Imam Ahmad and others narrated that there was consensus that it is not permissible to seek refuge except in Allah and His names and attributes. As for seeking refuge with anyone else, that is shirk and there is no difference of opinion concerning that.*

With regard to the phrase “this world and the Hereafter are part of what you control”, this is contrary to fact that sovereignty and control belong exclusively to Allah on the Day of Resurrection, as He says: “Whose is the kingdom this Day? (Allaah Himself will reply to His Question:) It is Allaah’s, the One, the Irresistible!” [Ghaafir 40:16].* And He says in Soorat al-Faatihah: “The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)” al-Faatihah 1:4]. And there are other similar verses.*

And he [the author] discussed this line further to highlight how how much reprehensible shirk it contains.*

End quote from Rasaa’il wa Fataawa al-Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Hasan ibn Muhammad ‘Abd al-Wahhaab, 1/82*

3.

Shaykh Sulaymaan ibn ‘Abd-Allah Aal al-Shaykh (may Allah have mercy on him) quoted some of the lines mentioned above, then he said:*

Think of how much shirk there is in these lines, such as:*

(i)

He denied that there is any refuge when calamity strikes except the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). But that applies only to Allah alone, with no partner or associate. He is the one in Whom people can find no refuge except Him.*

(ii)

He called upon the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), beseeched him, expressed his need of him, and stated that he had no choice but to seek his help, and asked of him these things that can only be asked of Allah. This is associating partners with Allah in His divinity (shirk al-uloohiyyah).*

(iii)

He asked him to intercede for him in the words: “undoubtedly your high position will enable you to help me when al-Kareem [Allah] takes the name of al-Muntaqim [the Avenger - i.e., on the Day of Resurrection].” This is what the mushrikoon sought from those whom they worshipped, relying on their high position and intercession before Allah, and this is shirk. Moreover, intercession cannot be granted except with the permission of Allah, so it makes no sense to seek it from anyone else. Allah is the One who gives permission to the intercessor to intercede; no intercessor can initiate his intercession.*

(iv)

“I have a connection with him because my name is Muhammad and he is the kindest of all creation in taking care of this connection”*

This is telling a lie about Allah and His Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). There is no special connection between him and one whose name is Muhammad except through obedience, not by just having the same name yet committing shirk.*

This is a great contradiction and obvious shirk, because he is asking first and not doubting that his high position will enable him to help him, then he asks him to take him by the hand out of generosity and kindness, otherwise he will be doomed.*

It may be said: How can you ask him first for intercession, then ask him to be kind to you? If you say that intercession can only come after permission from Allah, then how can you call upon the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and ask him to intercede? Why don't you ask for intercession from the One under Whose authority all types of intercession come, the One Who is the Sovereign and Controller of heaven and earth, the One Who there is no intercession except after His permission. This renders invalid your seeking intercession from anyone other than Allah.*

If you say: All I want is to seek his help by means of his high position and intercession, by the permission of Allah.

*The response is: How can you ask him (the Prophet) to be generous to you and take you by the hand on the Day of Recompense, when this is contrary to the words of Allah, “And what will make you know what the Day of Recompense is? 18.*Again, what will make you know what the Day of Recompense is? 19.*(It will be) the Day when no person shall have power (to do anything) for another, and the Decision, that Day, will be (wholly) with Allaah” [al-Infitaar 82:17-19]? How can belief in both this and that coexist in one heart?*

If you say: I asked him to take me by the hand and be kind to me by virtue of his high status and intercession,*

The response is: It comes back to seeking intercession from someone other than Allah, and that is the essence of shirk.*

(v)

In these lines of verse there is turning away from the Creator -- may He be exalted and sanctified -- and relying on created beings with regard to calamities of this world and the Hereafter, as is obvious to the believer. What comparison can there be between this and the words of Allah?

“You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything)”

[al-Faatihah 1:5]

“But if they turn away, say (O Muhammad): ‘Allaah is sufficient for me. Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) in Him I put my trust and He is the Lord of the Mighty Throne’”

[al-Tawbah 9:129]

“And put your trust (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) in the Ever Living One Who dies not, and glorify His Praises, and Sufficient is He as the All‑Knower of the sins of His slaves”

[al-Furqaan 25:58]

“Say: “It is not in my power to cause you harm, or to bring you to the Right Path.”

22.*Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): “None can protect me from Allaah’s punishment (if I were to disobey Him), nor can I find refuge except in Him.

23.*“(Mine is) but conveyance (of the truth) from Allaah and His Messages”

[al-Jinn 72:21-23]*

If it is said: He did not ask him to be kind to him; rather all he said was that if he is not included among those who receive his intercession, he will be doomed,*

The response is: What is meant is still asking him and seeking help from him, as he called upon him the first time and said that there was no refuge for him except with him. Then he clearly asks for favour and kindness in the form of a supplication and condition, because just as asking may come in the form of a request, it may also come in the form of a condition, as Nooh (peace be upon him) said: “And unless You forgive me and have mercy on me, I would indeed be one of the losers” [Hood 11:47].*

End quote from Tafseer al-‘Azeez al-Hameed fi Sharh Kitaab al-Tawheed, 1/187-189*

4.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked:

I read a hadeeth - how sound is it? It says: “Whoever is named Muhammad, do not hit him or insult him.”*

He replied: This hadeeth is fabricated and falsely attributed to the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). It has no basis in the Sunnah. The same applies to the saying “Whoever is called Muhammad has a special bond to Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and soon he will admit him to Paradise by virtue of that” and “Whoever is called Muhammad, his house will get such and such (blessings).” All of these reports have no basis of soundness. What matters is following Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), not just having his name. How many of those who are called Muhammad are evildoers, because they do not follow Muhammad and do not adhere to his sharee’ah. Names do not purify people; what purifies them is their righteous deeds and their fear of Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. Whoever is called Ahmad or Muhammad or Abu’l-Qaasim, but is a kaafir or an evildoer, it will not benefit him; rather the individual has to obey Allah, strive to obey Allah and adhere to the sharee‘ah of Allah with which He sent His Prophet Muhammad. This is what will benefit him and this is the way of salvation. Mere names without acting upon Islamic teachings have nothing to do with salvation or punishment.*

But al-Busayri made a mistake in his Burdah when he said: “I have a connection to him because I am called Muhammad as he is, and he is the kindest of creation in taking care of this connection,” and he made an even bigger mistake when he said:

“O noblest of creation, I have no one to turn to except you when major calamity strikes.

If you do not take my hand out of kindness on the Day of Resurrection, then what great trouble I will be in.

This world and the Hereafter are part of what you control, and part of your knowledge is knowledge of al-Lawh al-Mahfooz and the Pen”*

This poor man made his refuge in the Hereafter with the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and not with Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. He said that he will be doomed if he (the Prophet) does not take him by the hand, and he forgot Allah, may He be glorified, in Whose hand is harm and benefit, giving and withholding; He is the One Who will save His close friends and those who obey Him. The poet is making the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) the sovereign and controller of this world and the Hereafter. He described him as having knowledge of the unseen, part of which is knowledge of what is in al-Lawh al-Mahfooz and the Pen. This is blatant kufr and ultimate exaggeration; we ask Allah to keep us safe and sound.*

If he died believing that, and did not repent, then he died in the worst kind of kufr and misguidance. What every Muslim is required to do is to beware of this exaggeration and not be deceived by al-Burdah and its author. And Allah is the one Whose help we seek, and there is no power and no strength except in Allah. End quote.*

Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/370, 371*

The scholars said more than this, and there is more in the lines of this poem that could be subject to criticism, but we have chosen just some of that and it is sufficient to make the point, which is that we should beware of this qaseedah (ode) and realize that it contains blatant exaggeration, kufr and heresy.*

For more information on the criticism of this poem, see the book: al-‘Aqeedah al-Salafiyyah fi Maseeratiha al-Tareekhiyyah, by Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Maghraawi, part 5 (p. 139-154), and the article* Fawaadih ‘Aqadiyyah fi Burdah al-Busayri, by Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Muhammad Aal ‘Abd al-Lateef, which is to be found in the following link [in Arabic]:

http://www.saaid.net/arabic/ar20.htm*

And Allah knows best.

al faqeer
06-02-11, 01:36 PM
Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:*

The qaseedah or ode al-Burdah is regarded as one of the most famous poems in praise of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), if not the most famous. It was written by al-Busayri, whose full name was Muhammad ibn Sa‘eed ibn Hammaad al-Sunhaaji. He was born in 608 AH and died in 696 AH.*

It was said that the reason for his composing it was that al-Busayri was afflicted by a chronic disease, and no remedy was of any help; he used to send a great deal of blessings (salawaat) upon the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) until he saw the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) in a dream one night, and he covered him with his cloak (burdah), and when al-Busayri woke up, he stood up and there was no trace of sickness in him, so he composed this qaseedah. And Allah knows best whether this story is true or not.*

Secondly:*

The poem referred to includes blatant and obvious kufr and heresy. The scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa‘ah have studied it and criticised it, pointing out its faults and the ways in which it is contrary to the beliefs of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa‘ah.*

Among the most prominent verses for which this poem has been criticised are the following:*

1.**** O noblest of creation, I have no one but you to turn to except you when major calamity strikes.

2.**** If you do not take my hand out if kindness on the Day of Resurrection, then what great trouble I will be in.

3.**** This world and the Hereafter are part of what you control, and part of your knowledge is the knowledge of al-Lawh al-Mahfooz and the Pen

4.**** Stay away from the way of the Christians in praising their Prophet, then (after that) praise him in any way you want

5.**** If he were to perform miracles commensurate with his real status, his name would bring dead people back to life.

6.**** I have a connection to him because I am called Muhammad as he is, and he is the kindest of creation in taking care of this connection.*

Thirdly:*

Some of the comments of the scholars, commenting on and criticising these lines of verse:*

1.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab said:*

With regard to control (of this world and the Hereafter), we will discuss it. Allah says: “The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)” [al-Faatihah 1:4]. Its meaning according to all mufassireen is as Allah explained it in the verse in which He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And what will make you know what the Day of Recompense is?

18.*Again, what will make you know what the Day of Recompense is?

19.*(It will be) the Day when no person shall have power (to do anything) for another, and the Decision, that Day, will be (wholly) with Allaah”

[al-Infitaar 82:17-19].*

The one who understands the interpretation of this verse and realises that Allah will be the sole Sovereign (and controller) of that Day in particular, even though He is the Sovereign (and controller) of all days, that Day and others, will realise that it is emphasising this important matter (that Allah is the Sovereign and controller), because of knowledge of which a person may enter Paradise and because of ignorance of which he may enter Hell. What a serious matter it is; if a man were to travel for more than twenty years to learn about it, that would not be too much. What comparison can there be between this concept, believing in what the Qur’aan states clearly, as well as the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him): “O Faatimah bint Muhammad, I cannot help you before Allah in any way”, and the words of the author of al-Burdah:

“O Messenger of Allah, undoubtedly your high position will enable you to help me when al-Kareem [Allah] takes the name of al-Muntaqim [the Avenger - i.e., on the Day of Resurrection].

I have a connection with him because my name is Muhammad and he is the kindest of all creation in taking care of this connection.

If you do not take my hand out of kindness on the Day of Resurrection, then what great trouble I will be in.”*

Let the one who is honest with himself and those who are infatuated with it and those who claim to be scholars but prefer to recite this rather than reciting the Qur'aan ponder the meanings and implications of these lines of verse. Could any person believe in these lines of poetry and at the same time believe in the words of Allah (interpretation of the meaning): “(It will be) the Day when no person shall have power (to do anything) for another, and the Decision, that Day, will be (wholly) with Allaah” [al-Infitaar 82:17-19] and the words of the Prophet, “O Faatimah bint Muhammad, I cannot help you before Allah in any way”? No, by Allah, no, by Allah, no by Allah, except if one may believe that Moosa was truthful and Pharaoh was truthful at the same time, or that Muhammad was following the path of truth and Abu Jahl was following the path of truth at the same time. No, by Allah, they are not equal and will never meet until the head of the crow turns grey.*

One who examines and understands this issue and knows al-Burdah and those who are infatuated with it, will understand that Islam has become a stranger once again. End quote.*

Tafseer Soorat al-Faatihah, by Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab, 5/13*

2.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Hasan Aal al-Shaykh (may Allah have mercy on him) said:*

From ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Hasan and his son ‘Abd al-Lateef to ‘Abd al-Khaaliq al-Hifzi:*

Peace be upon you and the mercy of Allah and His blessings. To proceed:*

We heard two years ago that you were interested in al-Burdah by al-Busayri, but it contains major shirk that is not hidden. For example he says “O noblest of creation, I have no one to turn to except you…” and so on until the end of the poem, in which he asks for reward in the Hereafter from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) alone.*

The fact that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) is the best of the Prophets does not mean that he may be allowed exclusively something that Allah has forbidden to His slaves in totality; rather he is enjoined to forbade it and disavow it, as the Messiah son of Maryam disavowed it in the verses at the end of Soorat al-Maa’idah and as the angels disavowed it in Soorat Saba’.*

With regard to turning to, this is the same as seeking refuge; seeking refuge is to ward off evil and turning to is to attain something good. Imam Ahmad and others narrated that there was consensus that it is not permissible to seek refuge except in Allah and His names and attributes. As for seeking refuge with anyone else, that is shirk and there is no difference of opinion concerning that.*

With regard to the phrase “this world and the Hereafter are part of what you control”, this is contrary to fact that sovereignty and control belong exclusively to Allah on the Day of Resurrection, as He says: “Whose is the kingdom this Day? (Allaah Himself will reply to His Question:) It is Allaah’s, the One, the Irresistible!” [Ghaafir 40:16].* And He says in Soorat al-Faatihah: “The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)” al-Faatihah 1:4]. And there are other similar verses.*

And he [the author] discussed this line further to highlight how how much reprehensible shirk it contains.*

End quote from Rasaa’il wa Fataawa al-Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Hasan ibn Muhammad ‘Abd al-Wahhaab, 1/82*

3.

Shaykh Sulaymaan ibn ‘Abd-Allah Aal al-Shaykh (may Allah have mercy on him) quoted some of the lines mentioned above, then he said:*

Think of how much shirk there is in these lines, such as:*

(i)

He denied that there is any refuge when calamity strikes except the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). But that applies only to Allah alone, with no partner or associate. He is the one in Whom people can find no refuge except Him.*

(ii)

He called upon the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), beseeched him, expressed his need of him, and stated that he had no choice but to seek his help, and asked of him these things that can only be asked of Allah. This is associating partners with Allah in His divinity (shirk al-uloohiyyah).*

(iii)

He asked him to intercede for him in the words: “undoubtedly your high position will enable you to help me when al-Kareem [Allah] takes the name of al-Muntaqim [the Avenger - i.e., on the Day of Resurrection].” This is what the mushrikoon sought from those whom they worshipped, relying on their high position and intercession before Allah, and this is shirk. Moreover, intercession cannot be granted except with the permission of Allah, so it makes no sense to seek it from anyone else. Allah is the One who gives permission to the intercessor to intercede; no intercessor can initiate his intercession.*

(iv)

“I have a connection with him because my name is Muhammad and he is the kindest of all creation in taking care of this connection”*

This is telling a lie about Allah and His Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). There is no special connection between him and one whose name is Muhammad except through obedience, not by just having the same name yet committing shirk.*

This is a great contradiction and obvious shirk, because he is asking first and not doubting that his high position will enable him to help him, then he asks him to take him by the hand out of generosity and kindness, otherwise he will be doomed.*

It may be said: How can you ask him first for intercession, then ask him to be kind to you? If you say that intercession can only come after permission from Allah, then how can you call upon the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and ask him to intercede? Why don't you ask for intercession from the One under Whose authority all types of intercession come, the One Who is the Sovereign and Controller of heaven and earth, the One Who there is no intercession except after His permission. This renders invalid your seeking intercession from anyone other than Allah.*

If you say: All I want is to seek his help by means of his high position and intercession, by the permission of Allah.

*The response is: How can you ask him (the Prophet) to be generous to you and take you by the hand on the Day of Recompense, when this is contrary to the words of Allah, “And what will make you know what the Day of Recompense is? 18.*Again, what will make you know what the Day of Recompense is? 19.*(It will be) the Day when no person shall have power (to do anything) for another, and the Decision, that Day, will be (wholly) with Allaah” [al-Infitaar 82:17-19]? How can belief in both this and that coexist in one heart?*

If you say: I asked him to take me by the hand and be kind to me by virtue of his high status and intercession,*

The response is: It comes back to seeking intercession from someone other than Allah, and that is the essence of shirk.*

(v)

In these lines of verse there is turning away from the Creator -- may He be exalted and sanctified -- and relying on created beings with regard to calamities of this world and the Hereafter, as is obvious to the believer. What comparison can there be between this and the words of Allah?

“You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything)”

[al-Faatihah 1:5]

“But if they turn away, say (O Muhammad): ‘Allaah is sufficient for me. Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) in Him I put my trust and He is the Lord of the Mighty Throne’”

[al-Tawbah 9:129]

“And put your trust (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) in the Ever Living One Who dies not, and glorify His Praises, and Sufficient is He as the All‑Knower of the sins of His slaves”

[al-Furqaan 25:58]

“Say: “It is not in my power to cause you harm, or to bring you to the Right Path.”

22.*Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): “None can protect me from Allaah’s punishment (if I were to disobey Him), nor can I find refuge except in Him.

23.*“(Mine is) but conveyance (of the truth) from Allaah and His Messages”

[al-Jinn 72:21-23]*

If it is said: He did not ask him to be kind to him; rather all he said was that if he is not included among those who receive his intercession, he will be doomed,*

The response is: What is meant is still asking him and seeking help from him, as he called upon him the first time and said that there was no refuge for him except with him. Then he clearly asks for favour and kindness in the form of a supplication and condition, because just as asking may come in the form of a request, it may also come in the form of a condition, as Nooh (peace be upon him) said: “And unless You forgive me and have mercy on me, I would indeed be one of the losers” [Hood 11:47].*

End quote from Tafseer al-‘Azeez al-Hameed fi Sharh Kitaab al-Tawheed, 1/187-189*

4.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked:

I read a hadeeth - how sound is it? It says: “Whoever is named Muhammad, do not hit him or insult him.”*

He replied: This hadeeth is fabricated and falsely attributed to the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). It has no basis in the Sunnah. The same applies to the saying “Whoever is called Muhammad has a special bond to Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and soon he will admit him to Paradise by virtue of that” and “Whoever is called Muhammad, his house will get such and such (blessings).” All of these reports have no basis of soundness. What matters is following Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), not just having his name. How many of those who are called Muhammad are evildoers, because they do not follow Muhammad and do not adhere to his sharee’ah. Names do not purify people; what purifies them is their righteous deeds and their fear of Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. Whoever is called Ahmad or Muhammad or Abu’l-Qaasim, but is a kaafir or an evildoer, it will not benefit him; rather the individual has to obey Allah, strive to obey Allah and adhere to the sharee‘ah of Allah with which He sent His Prophet Muhammad. This is what will benefit him and this is the way of salvation. Mere names without acting upon Islamic teachings have nothing to do with salvation or punishment.*

But al-Busayri made a mistake in his Burdah when he said: “I have a connection to him because I am called Muhammad as he is, and he is the kindest of creation in taking care of this connection,” and he made an even bigger mistake when he said:

“O noblest of creation, I have no one to turn to except you when major calamity strikes.

If you do not take my hand out of kindness on the Day of Resurrection, then what great trouble I will be in.

This world and the Hereafter are part of what you control, and part of your knowledge is knowledge of al-Lawh al-Mahfooz and the Pen”*

This poor man made his refuge in the Hereafter with the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and not with Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. He said that he will be doomed if he (the Prophet) does not take him by the hand, and he forgot Allah, may He be glorified, in Whose hand is harm and benefit, giving and withholding; He is the One Who will save His close friends and those who obey Him. The poet is making the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) the sovereign and controller of this world and the Hereafter. He described him as having knowledge of the unseen, part of which is knowledge of what is in al-Lawh al-Mahfooz and the Pen. This is blatant kufr and ultimate exaggeration; we ask Allah to keep us safe and sound.*

If he died believing that, and did not repent, then he died in the worst kind of kufr and misguidance. What every Muslim is required to do is to beware of this exaggeration and not be deceived by al-Burdah and its author. And Allah is the one Whose help we seek, and there is no power and no strength except in Allah. End quote.*

Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/370, 371*

The scholars said more than this, and there is more in the lines of this poem that could be subject to criticism, but we have chosen just some of that and it is sufficient to make the point, which is that we should beware of this qaseedah (ode) and realize that it contains blatant exaggeration, kufr and heresy.*

For more information on the criticism of this poem, see the book: al-‘Aqeedah al-Salafiyyah fi Maseeratiha al-Tareekhiyyah, by Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Maghraawi, part 5 (p. 139-154), and the article* Fawaadih ‘Aqadiyyah fi Burdah al-Busayri, by Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Muhammad Aal ‘Abd al-Lateef, which is to be found in the following link [in Arabic]:

http://www.saaid.net/arabic/ar20.htm*

And Allah knows best.

Salafi Baloney.net ?

You should have started a new thread , since you sitting with stiff fingers and unable to refute the MAwlid questions first :)

Al_Ghurabaa
06-02-11, 01:43 PM
Salafi Baloney.net ?

You should have started a new thread , since you sitting with stiff fingers and unable to refute the MAwlid questions first :)

First off, there's nothing to refute because you have no legitimate evidence to prove celebrating it in the first place.

Secondly, how are these verses not shirk?

"O noblest of creation, I have no one but you to turn to except you when major calamity strikes."

"This world and the Hereafter are part of what you control, and part of your knowledge is the knowledge of al-Lawh al-Mahfooz and the Pen"

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 01:49 PM
Cause they were not Khaatam An Nabiyeen and not Ra7matun Lil 3aalameen , A Mercy for all the worlds and We are not obliged to love them more than ourselves , our parents and everything else except Allah SWT :) .
but ibrahim is our father, he was an ummah to himself, he built the kaaba, among other things, khalil Allah
isa born of a virgin, spoke from the cradle, ruh Allah
adam the first man
maryam, khadija, fatima and asiya, four PERFECT women

al faqeer
06-02-11, 01:49 PM
1.**** O noblest of creation, I have no one but you to turn to except you when major calamity strikes.

Well knows fact When Qiyamah Comes Sayidina Mu7ammad PBUH will be our Shafee3 .

2.**** If you do not take my hand out if kindness on the Day of Resurrection, then what great trouble I will be in.

Again he is Al Shaafi3 Al Mushafa3 fil Ma7shar .

3.**** This world and the Hereafter are part of what you control, and part of your knowledge is the knowledge of al-Lawh al-Mahfooz and the Pen

Joodika ? does not mean control it means perfection , and part of the Knowledge of the Lawh and the Pen is the Quran :) .


4.**** Stay away from the way of the Christians in praising their Prophet, then (after that) praise him in any way you want

I dont see any problem with this ?

al faqeer
06-02-11, 01:50 PM
but ibrahim is our father, he was an ummah to himself, he built the kaaba, among other things, khalil Allah
isa born of a virgin, spoke from the cradle, ruh Allah
adam the first man
maryam, khadija, fatima and asiya, four PERFECT women

Nothing like Mu7ammad PBUH thats the love we should have , and the love that can unite us .

Khaatam an nabiyeen wa Ra7matun lil3aalameen , and the only one who wont tell you NAfsi Nafsi Goto someone else , Qiyaamah .

Ibadah
06-02-11, 02:28 PM
Well Come rabea3 alawal Here in Makkah and Madeenah we start having mawlids from the 1st of Rabea3 alawal and in most arab countries its done all round the year weekly here as well .

I am not sure where u are at .

Not here my brother, people will have huge gatherings on the 12th only, they wouldnt fast every monday, the only excuse is that its the nabi (saw) birthday so they tend to crowd the masjids on that specific day. Now im asking you, is this bidah, or not? And please answer honestly,

Did the nabi (saw) hold gatherings on his bday? After the nabi (saw) death, did Abu Bakr (ra) gather people to send peace and blessings upon the prophet, did they even mention mawlid?

Did you watch the video i had posted? Wasnt the sheikhs answer sufficient.

Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen said:

Every holiday or celebration that differs from the Sharee'ah celebrations is a newly-invented innovation that was not known during the time of the Pious Predecessors. Furthermore, it may have begun as an imitation of the non-Muslims. Therefore, in addition to it being an innovation, it may also be an act of resembling the enemies of Allaah. The Sharee'ah holidays are well-known among the Muslims. These are the `Eed al-Fitr, `Eed al-Adhha and the weekly `Eed [Fridays]. There is no holiday or festival in Islaam other than those three. Every holiday that is invented besides them is to be rejected as an innovation and falsehood in the Sharee'ah. This is because the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) said:

((Every deed introduced into our affair that does not belong to it is rejected)).

Allahu Alam

Al-Shifa
06-02-11, 02:52 PM
Not here my brother, people will have huge gatherings on the 12th only,

why are you stuck with 12 rabi ul awwal my dear, please read qoutes # 124 &123 again.

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 03:01 PM
Sayyidatuna Amina says, 'I saw that three flags were placed, one in the east, one in the west and one on the roof of the Ka'ba. At that time, The Holy Prophet was born.' (khasais-e-kubra, V1, P82)

When the Holy Prophet was performing Hijrat and came to a place close to Madina called 'mo'za'ai ghameem', Bareeda Aslami along with seventy horsemen from the tribe of bani Sehm came with the intention to capture the Holy Prophet . However, they themselves got captured in the love of The Holy Prophet and accepted Islam. They said, 'Ya Rasool-Allah , your entry into Madina should be done with flags.' After saying this, the horsemen took off their turbans, placed them on top of their spears and lead the way into Madina.


i see no problem with a mawlid procession

WOW! I wonder y no sahaabah ever thought of this! *roll eyes*

P.s the ppl who suposedly put on flags were KUFFAAR!!!! NOT MUSLIMS!!!

And i say this ^ IF (IF IF IF!) the narration u provided is authentic

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 03:05 PM
In every Muslim country today, we find people celebrating the Prophet's birthday. This is true of the following: Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine, Iraq, Kuwait, the Emirates, Saudi Arabia (not officially, but in the majority of homes), Sudan, Yemen, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania, Djibouti, Somalia, Turkey, Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, Iran, Afghanistan, Azerbaidjan, Uzbekistan, Turkestan, Bosnia (former Yougoslavia), Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore, and most other Islamic countries. All these countries, O Nation of Islam, are celebrating that event. How is it that today a minority is coming and making up a ruling that it is haram?

My brothr, what u fail to relise is tht MILLIONS of muslims FROM THE TIME OF THE PROPHET have not been doing it...

The only difference is that "NOT DOING IT" cant be shown with tangible proof. Hence y arguments like urs (above) are nothing but trickery...

Its like saying, 'o we have found idols beneath the erth from every country, therfore ppl were upon shirk b4 tawheed!

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 03:09 PM
Imam Dhahabi (Rah) writes:

المحدثات من الأمور ضربان ما احدث يخالف كتابا او سنة او اثرا او اجماعا فهذه البدعة ضلالة وما احدث من الخير لا خلاف فيه لواحد من هذا فهذه محدثة غير مذمومة قد قال عمر في قيام رمضان نعمت البدعة

Innovations are of two types, The first consist of those new matters which are in opposition of Quran, Sunnah, Athaar, or Ijma of Ummah, these will be Bidat al Dhalalah (evil innovations). The second type consists of those new matters which are performed for the good, these will not be disliked, This is why Umar (RA) said at Qiyaam of Tarawih: What an excellent Bidah this is

[Imam Dhahabi in As Siyar al Alam an Nabula, Volume 10, Page No. 70]

good biddah is that which has roots in islam. example, usool al fiqh has roots in the quran. Allaah says 'when a person comes 2 u with news, VERIFY IT b4 u spread it."

This lead the khalaf to do usool al fiqh... but we know tht every inovation that has no root in islam is an innovation!

read this:

The Prophet (saw) said:

“…Beware of newly invented matters, for every invented matter is an innovation and every innovation is a going astray, and every going astray is in Hell-fire.” (1)

Likewise ‘Abdullaah Ibn Mas’ood – may Allaah have mercy upon him - said:

“Follow and do not innovate, for indeed you have been sufficed, and every innovation is misguidance.” (2)

Also, Ibn ‘Umar (ra) mentioned:

“Every biddah is a misguidance, even if the people see it as something good.” (3)

And then some people bring ‘proof’ from the khalaf saying there is something as ‘good biddah’?

Source for refernces: http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/every-innovation-is-a-misguidance/

SubhaanAllaah how many times do i have to go around repeating myself?!

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 03:13 PM
A major contribution of Imâm al-Shâfi`î (ra) in the Foundations of Jurisprudence (us.űl al-fiqh) is his division of innovation (al-bid`a) and innovated matters (al-muh.dathât) into “good” and “bad” depending on their conformity or non-conformity to the guidelines of the Religion.


QUESTION: So y didnt imam shaafi'ee do the mawlid then?!

BCZ HE KNEW IT WAS NOT "GOOD"!!!!!!!

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 03:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t5tEY1Zp5o&feature=related

_t5tEY1Zp5o

_t5tEY1Zp5o

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_t5tEY1Zp5o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 03:18 PM
How to decide a safer one? Have we reached the level of such piety and 'authority' that we can decide which view is safer and which is a Baatil one? Who are we? Some 9am - 5pm Subway cashiers?

Ummm. By checking up maybe?

By asking the ulaama FOR PROOF maybe?

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 03:20 PM
maybe you can let us know if the Prophet peace be upon or the Quran told us to:

pray taraweeh in one congregation

compile the Quran into one book

add diacritical marks to the Quran

add to the Mushaf the tashkeel so that you know a given letter has a fathah and not a dummah

add to the Mushaf numbers to mark the ends of ayat and add symbols to mark places of sajdah

add an extra adaan in Jummah prayer

build minarets

mihrabs in masjid

taqleed of the four schools of Fiqh

fixing congregational prayer times with the clock times

lol, u make me laugh... All this ^ was done by the salaf!

Who from the salaf done the mawlid?

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 03:21 PM
My dear brothers and sisters

To sum it up once for all, we will go step by step and prove this right from the Holy Qur'an. i will put simple question and you please answer it honestly by your heart.

1-Do you think the birth or sending of the Holy Prophet, the Biggest Mercy of Allah (swt)???

If you answer it yes, then congratualtions to you and may Allah give you more knowledge.

And if your answer is No, then below is the verse of the Holy Qur'an to refute you.

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلاَّ رَحْمَةً لِلْعَالَمِينَ
And we did not send you except mercy for all worlds. 21:107—

2- Do you think birth of the Holy Prophet the Greatest Favor/Blessing of Allah (swt) on believers???

If your answer is Yes, then Mabrook to you.
And if your answer is No, then read belwo verdict of the Holy Qur'an and correct yourself.

لَقَدْ مَنَّ اللَّهُ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ إِذْ بَعَثَ فِيهِمْ رَسُولاً
Allah has indeed bestowed a great favour upon the Muslims, that He sent to them a Noble Messenger from among them, 3:164

Now it is established, that birth of the Holy Prophet (may Allah exalt his mention) is the Biggest Mercy and the Greatest Favor of Allah (swt) on believers and on this universe.

3- What should we do at the occasion when Allah (swt) blesses us with His Favor and Mercy???

If you know the answer, good, if you don't know, Let us ask the Holy Qur'an itself.


قُلْ بِفَضْلِ اللَّهِ وَبِرَحْمَتِهِ فَبِذَلِكَ فَلْيَفْرَحُوا

Upon Allah’s favour and upon His mercy, upon these should the people rejoice. 10:58

A N D

وَأَمَّا بِنِعْمَةِ رَبِّكَ فَحَدِّثْ
And abundantly proclaim the favours of your Lord. 93:11


And this is what is called CELEBRATION !!!!! i hope it is conveyed...

lol... I wonder why ur understanding is different to that of the sahaabahs?

Tha sahaabah NEVER nuderstood "mawlid" to be the conclusion from al the above^... YET u do?

ARE U MORE KNOWLEDGBLE THAN THE SAHAABAH?

IS UR UNDERSTADING MORE ACCURATE?

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 03:22 PM
[B][COLOR="darkred"](Faith will go waste due to the slightest disrespect towards the Holy Prophet - peace and blessings be upon him. To honour him is part of faith. To disrespect him is blasphemy.)

To honour him is to follow his way...

And the mawlid is NOT from his (saw) way...

muslim ak
06-02-11, 03:24 PM
My brothr, what u fail to relise is tht MILLIONS of muslims FROM THE TIME OF THE PROPHET have not been doing it...

The only difference is that "NOT DOING IT" cant be shown with tangible proof. Hence y arguments like urs (above) are nothing but trickery...

Its like saying, 'o we have found idols beneath the erth from every country, therfore ppl were upon shirk b4 tawheed!

No its not !! my point is that the Prophet peace be upon him said "My Community shall never agree upon misguidance, therefore, if you see divergences, you must follow the greater mass or larger group." Ibn Majah (2:1303 #3950) from Anas with a weak chain .Ahmad narrates it mawquf through three sound chains to Abu Umama al-Bahili and Ibn Abi Awfa. However, it is marfu` to the Prophet peace be upon him from Abu Umama by Ibn Abi Shayba in his Musannaf as well as Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, the latter two's narration stating that Abu Umama heard this from the Prophet peace be upon him up to seven times. Bayhaqi in al-Madkhal narrates something similar from Ibn `Abbas.
"My Community shall not agree upon misguidance. Therefore, you must stay with the Congregation, and Allah's hand is over the Congregation."
Tabarani narrated it with two chains from Ibn `Umar, one of which is sound (sahih). See Haythami, Majma` al-zawa'id, chapter on the obligation to stay with the Congregation. referring to them the Beloved peace be upon him has told us that if we see this group, we should stick to it.

note:the largest group is the ahlu-sunnah-wal-jamah

this group was always in majority and it would be in majority till end of the world

the majority celebrate the mawlid

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 03:24 PM
we tried the 1442 candles last year, the cake was too small, it set off smoke detectors, the fire department came, and they gave me a $2,000 fine.

dont try that at home

the neighbors thought we were holding a seance

lol

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 03:25 PM
I dont have to do that , since the Quran has ordered us to be happy " Falyafra7u" , where you get your manhaj from is your problem not mine .

Ummm... r u more 'happier' than the sahaabah?
r u more 'happier' than aboo haneefah?
r u more 'happier' than imam bukhari?

Sis_Asiya
06-02-11, 03:37 PM
the innovators will always celebrate the milad/mawlid. May Allah guide them to the straight path and away from this innovation ameen

Fais
06-02-11, 03:42 PM
And then some people bring ‘proof’ from the khalaf saying there is something as ‘good biddah’?


Two things.

First on what basis do you call it a Bidah?

Second, you said "And then some people bring ‘proof’ from the khalaf saying there is something as ‘good biddah’?"

Do you disassociate yourself from the Khalaf who mentioned good bida?

Fais
06-02-11, 03:43 PM
we tried the 1442 candles last year, the cake was too small, it set off smoke detectors, the fire department came, and they gave me a $2,000 fine.

dont try that at home

the neighbors thought we were holding a seance

The Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “Shame on him who tells lies in order to make people laugh! Shame on him! Shame on him!” [Abu Dawud]

PakiBaz
06-02-11, 04:10 PM
lol, u make me laugh... All this ^ was done by the salaf!

Who from the salaf done the mawlid?

so you accept that all the above were newly added things by the salaf. So the salaf did good bidah. So when we do Mawlid we are doing good bidah. As said before in the mawlid quran is recited, a talk on the seerah is given and poems are read. All which are things we ourselves do regularly. No bad things are done in the mawlid which is conducted according to the shariah.

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 04:33 PM
note:the largest group is the ahlu-sunnah-wal-jamah

this group was always in majority and it would be in majority till end of the world

the majority celebrate the mawlid

We, Ahle sunnah r the majority no doubt, but the majority of ahle sunnah do NOT do it... the difernce is tht u ppl show thecelebration form around teh globe WHICH IS NOTHING BUT TRICKERY! bcz wht do u wnt us to do? show milions of ppl from around the globe sitting at home?

Anyways, just bcz the majority of pl do it (as u claim), it dsnt make it legit.. read this article:

http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2011/01/20/who-are-the-saved-sect-are-they-the-majority/

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 04:35 PM
Two things.

First on what basis do you call it a Bidah?

Second, you said "And then some people bring ‘proof’ from the khalaf saying there is something as ‘good biddah’?"

Do you disassociate yourself from the Khalaf who mentioned good bida?

i disassociate myslf with the khalaf IN PLACES WHERE THEY disassociate themselves with the salaf...

The salaf r more belovd to me than the khalaf...

Furthermore the salf said all biddah is bad:

As Imaam Abu Haneefah (rahimahullaah) said:


“Adhere to the Athaar (narrations) and the Tareeqah (way) of the Salaf and beware of newly invented matters, for all of it is innovation.”

[Reported by As-Suyootee in Sawn al-Mantaq Wal -Kalaam, p. 32.]

It was narrated that Nooh al-Jaami’ said:


“I said to Abu Haneefah (may Allah have mercy on him), ‘What do you say about the philosophical issues that people have innovated?‘ He said, ‘That is just the words of philosophers. you should adhere to the way of the Salaf, and beware of every newly invented thing, for it is an innovation (bid’ah).“ [ Al-Khateeb in Al-Faqeeh wal-Mutafaqqih.]

I wonder how may ppl read this^ in my first post?

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 04:36 PM
We, Ahle sunnah r the majority no doubt, but the majority of ahle sunnah do NOT do it... the difernce is tht u ppl show thecelebration form around teh globe WHICH IS NOTHING BUT TRICKERY! bcz wht do u wnt us to do? show milions of ppl from around the globe sitting at home?

Anyways, just bcz the majority of pl do it (as u claim), it dsnt make it legit.. read this article:

http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2011/01/20/who-are-the-saved-sect-are-they-the-majority/

Majority of alhe sunnah do, the ones who don't is the ones who have invented their sect about 200-300 years ago.Sadly inventions of sects are still happening.

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 04:40 PM
so you accept that all the above were newly added things by the salaf. So the salaf did good bidah. So when we do Mawlid we are doing good bidah. As said before in the mawlid quran is recited, a talk on the seerah is given and poems are read. All which are things we ourselves do regularly. No bad things are done in the mawlid which is conducted according to the shariah.

Eh no...

Read this IF UR OPEN MINDED:

The Consequences Of Bidda & Extremism In The Religion

Taken from “Silsilah Ahadeeth As-Saheehaha”

By the Muhaddith, Shaykh, Allamaa
Muhammad Nasir uddeen al-Albaani

Translated by: Abbas Abu Yahya (2005)

“Indeed there people who read the Qur’aan, but it does not go pass their throats, they leave Islaam just like the arrow leaves the prey.“ [Collected by ad-Darmi]

From ‘Amroo bin Salamah: We were sitting by the door of Abdullaah ibn Mas’ood before lunch, so that if he came out, we could walk with him to the Masjid.

Abu Moosaa al-Ash’aree came and said: Has Abu Abdur-Rahmaan come out yet?

We said: No.

So, he sat down with us, waiting for him to come out, and when he came out, we all gathered towards him, and Abu Moosaa said:

“O Abu Abdur-Rahmaan! Previously I saw something in the Masjid which I disliked. But, Alhamdulillaah, what I saw, was nothing but good.”

He said: What was it?

Abu Moosaa said, “If you live, you will see it.”

Then Abu Moosaa said, “I saw a group of people, sitting in circles waiting for the prayer. In every circle there was a man and in their hands were small stones and he would say: “Say Allaahu Akbar 100 times” and they would say “Allaahu Akbar” 100 times. Then, he would say, “Say laa ilaha ilAllaah 100 times” and they would say “laa ilaha ilAllaah” 100 times and he would say, “Say SubhaanAllaah” 100 times and they would say “SubhaanAllaah” 100 times.”

Abdullaah ibn Mas’ood said, “So what did you say to them?”

He said: “I did not say anything to them, rather I waited for your opinion [or "I waited for your command"].”

He said: “Why did you not command them to count their bad deeds [i.e. seek forgiveness from your deeds] and guarantee them that their good deeds would not be lost?!”

Then he walked and we walked with him until he reached one of those circles and he stood there and said, “What is this that I see you doing?”

They said: “O Abu Abdur-Rahmaan! These are nothing but small stones with which we are counting, saying “Allaahu Akbar, laa ilaaha illAllaah and SubhaanAllaah.”

He said, “Count your sins; I guarantee that you will not lose anything of your good deeds! Beware, O Ummah of Muhammad! How quick you are to your destruction!

Here we are, the Companions of your Prophet abundant, everywhere and here is his clothing which has not been [wasted away] and his utensils have not been broken. I swear by Him in Whose Hand is my soul, either you are an Ummah more rightly-guided than the Ummah of Muhammad or you are opening the door of misguidance.”

They said; “We swear by Allaah, O Abu Abdur-Rahmaan, we did not intend anything but good.”

He said: “How many people intend good but never achieve it. Verily the Messenger of Allaah narrated to us, “Indeed there will be a people who read the Qur’aan but it does not pass beyond their throats.” I swear by Allaah, I do not know. Perhaps most of them are from amongst you.”

Then he went away.

‘Amroo bin Salamah said, “We saw some of those sitting in those circles fighting on the Day of Nahrawaan, along with the Khawaarij.”[1]

Shaykh al-Albaani mentions in the Takreej (research) of the above narration:

“Indeed there is a lesson to be learnt from this narration, for those who follow Sufi paths and Dhikr gatherings which are against the Sunnah. When someone forbids an evil action that they perform they accuse him of forbidding Dhikr from its very foundation!

This is Kufr which no Muslim in this world should fall into; the evil action which they adhere to, from those forms of Dhikr and gatherings which, were not legislated at the time of the Prophet sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam, otherwise why would Ibn Masood radi Allaahu anhu disapprove of those who were sitting in their gatherings?

Is it not, a gathering done on a specific day, and doing an amount of Dhikr which is not indicated by the Sharia’ but is listed by the Shaykh of the gathering, and he commands them with the amount of Dhikr that they should do from himself, as if he is a legislator on behalf of Allaah Ta’ala!

<< Or do they have partners with Allaah, who have instituted for them a religion which Allaah has not allowed. >>[2]

To add to this, the Sunnah which is established by the Messenger, sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam, verbally and practically is to perform the Tasbeeh (remembrance of Allaah) on your fingertips, as it is clear in “The refutation against al-Habshee” and in other places.

From the benefits which can be reaped from the hadeeth and this story is; that the importance is not of performing a large amount of worship, but rather, is it according to the Sunnah and far away from Bidda’.

Ibn Masood, radi Allaahu anhu, also indicated to this point in his saying: “sticking to the Sunnah is better than striving in Bidda’.”

And another benefit is: that a small Bidda’ leads to a greater Bidda’. Do you not see that those people from these gatherings afterwards became from the Khawaarij who were killed by the rightly guided Khalifah ‘Alee bin Abu Taalib? So is there anyone who will take heed?!”

[Taken from Silsilah Ahadeeth as-Saheehah by Shaykh al-Albaani (vol 5/2005)]

FOOTNOTES:

[1] Narrated by ad-Darmi in his Sunan.

[2] Soorah Shura :21

Source: http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/the-consequences-of-bidda-extremism-in-the-religion/

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 04:42 PM
so based on the above, "just reading quran, etc", as u say, doesnt matter...

the mawlid is an innovation fulllstop

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 04:42 PM
^^ Funny guy called nasir uddin al abani.Majority of the ulema ul deen ahle sunnah wah jammah don't even consider him to be a scholar, leave aside the muhadith title.

TheAuthenticBase
06-02-11, 04:42 PM
Majority of alhe sunnah do, the ones who don't is the ones who have invented their sect about 200-300 years ago.Sadly inventions of sects are still happening.

lol... the sahaabah never done it... what do u say about tht?

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 04:43 PM
so based on the above, "just reading quran, etc", as u say, doesnt matter...

the mawlid is an innovation fulllstop

Are you sure?

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 04:44 PM
lol... the sahaabah never done it... what do u say about tht?

How many ahadith have you read in your whole life?

I don't think you might have read more than 1000, have you ?

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 04:47 PM
Don't be shy to reply, go ahead.It is all right nobody is a scholar over here.

Fais
06-02-11, 05:44 PM
i disassociate myslf with the khalaf IN PLACES WHERE THEY disassociate themselves with the salaf...

The salaf r more belovd to me than the khalaf...


You didn't answer my first question.

And you can't just disassociate yourself from the Khalaf when they differ with you on something like Bida.

Because there's a Hadith which says: He who innovates (an act or practice) or gives protection to an innovator, there is a curse of Allah and that of His angels and that of the whole humanity upon him. [Muslim]

So how is it you only disassociate yourself from the Khalaf when they mention good Bida but then take from them at other times, in light of the Hadith post above?

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 06:29 PM
Are you sure?
why play games? if you have anything that shows that the companions or even the tabi'een celebrated the prophet's birthday, bring it on

you wont be able to, of course not

but then again, you could read 500,000 hadiths and maybe you can find it for us

we await your response

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 06:32 PM
The Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “Shame on him who tells lies in order to make people laugh! Shame on him! Shame on him!” [Abu Dawud]
shame on him? of course

did you laugh? did i say it for you to laugh? am i here trying to be your comic? no

i want you to see the silliness of this discussion, if you laughed, thats on you

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 06:32 PM
why play games? if you have anything that shows that the companions or even the tabi'een celebrated the prophet's birthday, bring it on

you wont be able to, of course not

but then again, you could read 500,000 hadiths and maybe you can find it for us

we await your response

Yes like you accepted the great scholars of Islam.

If you have not accepted such great scholars of Islam how will you accept me?

Where I stand as mere dust in their feets of knowledge.

Even if I read 500,000 or more I would never change my view from theirs, because my view is their view and their view is my view.

If I don't look Islam by their view, then I am looking my nafs.If I am following my nafs then I am only following shaitaan.

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 06:34 PM
Two things.

First on what basis do you call it a Bidah?

Second, you said "And then some people bring ‘proof’ from the khalaf saying there is something as ‘good biddah’?"

Do you disassociate yourself from the Khalaf who mentioned good bida?how you can argue this? you know the hadith on the one who argues just to argue?

its amazing that in this day and time, we have muslims who debate on celebrating birthdays, and on top of that, the prophet's birthday, and want to make it seem like its ok, a good thing, a good bida

lets dig thru some quran and sunnah and see if we can justify this? yes, faqir said that Allah commands us to be happy (daleel enough for me)

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 06:36 PM
Yes like you accepted the great scholars of Islam.

If you have not accepted such great scholars of Islam how will you accept me?

Where I stand as mere dust in their feets of knowledge.i just want ONE hadith where the prophet the companions or the tabi'een celebrated it

surely you work from daleel? bring it

you and fais and faqir can debate this till the cows come home, but you know it aint right, all it is is you defending your cultural practices, because there is no daleel to support doing it

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 06:38 PM
after all these years of reading these debates, the BEST you can find is someone who says its not bad

and thats purely from deduction, not from following the practice

we are not even allowed to celebrate the new year, now you want to start muslims celebrating birthdays? and then to make it a form of ibada? and you see nothing wrong with this?

then i say to you and all of you mawlidis, go do your birthday, cake, ice cream and dhikr of course

just dont ever use the saying "quran and sunnah" because that is obviously what you are NOT working with

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 06:43 PM
You stated right it is my culture and my culture is from Islam alhumdulilah.After all culture of Islam is sunnah of syeddina rasulallah salellahualaihiwasalam

Seems like with my culture the following great Scholars of Islam have also agreed.Which are as follows.

1.Imam Ibn Kathir rahimullah alai
2.Imam Shahab-ud-din Abul Abbas al-Qastallan rahimullah alai
3.Imam Jalal ud din Suyuti rahimullah alai
4.Shaykh ul islam ibn hajar asqalani rahimullah alai
5.Imam Shams-ud-din Dimishqi rahimullah alai
6.Imam Ibn Jawzi rahimullah alai


And the list of great mashaykh goes on until my lips become dry.

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 06:55 PM
You stated right it is my culture and my culture is from Islam alhumdulilah.After all culture of Islam is sunnah of syeddina rasulallah salellahualaihiwasalam

Seems like with my culture the following great Scholars of Islam have also agreed.Which are as follows.

1.Imam Ibn Kathir rahimullah alai
2.Imam Shahab-ud-din Abul Abbas al-Qastallan rahimullah alai
3.Imam Jalal ud din Suyuti rahimullah alai
4.Shaykh ul islam ibn hajar asqalani rahimullah alai
5.Imam Shams-ud-din Dimishqi rahimullah alai
6.Imam Ibn Jawzi rahimullah alai


And the list of great mashaykh goes on until my lips become dry.akhi, you could quote scholars all day long, but Allah gave us His book for a reason

and the book says, if you differ, REFER TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER for a final decision for those who believe in Allah and the Last Day

so using the book of Allah and the sunnah of His messenger, give me the daleel

if not, then happy birthday and make a wish when you blow out the candles

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 06:55 PM
after all these years of reading these debates, the BEST you can find is someone who says its not bad

and thats purely from deduction, not from following the practice

we are not even allowed to celebrate the new year, now you want to start muslims celebrating birthdays? and then to make it a form of ibada? and you see nothing wrong with this?

then i say to you and all of you mawlidis, go do your birthday, cake, ice cream and dhikr of course

just dont ever use the saying "quran and sunnah" because that is obviously what you are NOT working with

The names are enough.No need of further conversation.They only verdict any act by the Quran and sunnah.

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 06:56 PM
akhi, you could quote scholars all day long, but Allah gave us His book for a reason

and the book says, if you differ, REFER TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER for a final decision for those who believe in Allah and the Last Day

so using the book of Allah and the sunnah of His messenger, give me the daleel

if not, then happy birthday and make a wish when you blow out the candles

What do you infer from mawlid un nabi salellahualaihiwasalam?

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 06:58 PM
i have more respect for these madkhalis than these mawlidis

the madkhalis find some quran and sunnah (though twisted) to defend their position

you guys cant even find an ayat or hadith, but you still go on and on on this silly subject

o, my, did i just call the mawlid silly? is that a sin? did i disrespect our religion? our Prophet?

of course not

so if this thing is not a part of islam, then say so, say "i am doing this mawlid, its not part of islam, but something my parents did and their parents did, but there is no islamic justification for me doing it"........i could respect that

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 06:58 PM
And also from this ayah of Quran.

Surah yunus - 58


قُلْ بِفَضْلِ اللّهِ وَبِرَحْمَتِهِ فَبِذَلِكَ فَلْيَفْرَحُواْ هُوَ خَيْرٌ مِّمَّا يَجْمَعُونَ

When an arrogant speaks with ignorance, he will never speak anything good but arrogance full of ignorance.Not that I am calling you ignorant.

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 07:02 PM
The names are enough.No need of further conversation.They only verdict any act by the Quran and sunnah.
what kind of islam are you upon? when a companion came to umar, umar did not say, "your name is sufficient", he wanted proof that was linked to the prophet

you think name-dropping is justification for adding a new holiday in this religion?

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 07:03 PM
And also from this ayah of Quran.

Surah yunus - 58


قُلْ بِفَضْلِ اللّهِ وَبِرَحْمَتِهِ فَبِذَلِكَ فَلْيَفْرَحُواْ هُوَ خَيْرٌ مِّمَّا يَجْمَعُونَ

When an arrogant speak with ignorance, he will never speak anything good but arrogance full of ignorance.Not that I am calling you ignorant.you are, but i am not offended

you are stuck in that mindset, and you like it there

enjoy

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 07:05 PM
Also do tell me what do you infer from this ayah of Quran

Surah ibrahim 5 and 6.

وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا مُوسَى بِآيَاتِنَا أَنْ أَخْرِجْ قَوْمَكَ مِنَ الظُّلُمَاتِ إِلَى النُّورِ وَذَكِّرْهُمْ بِأَيَّامِ اللّهِ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِّكُلِّ صَبَّارٍ شَكُورٍ

6. وَإِذْ قَالَ مُوسَى لِقَوْمِهِ اذْكُرُواْ نِعْمَةَ اللّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذْ أَنْجَاكُم مِّنْ آلِ فِرْعَوْنَ يَسُومُونَكُمْ سُوءَ الْعَذَابِ وَيُذَبِّحُونَ أَبْنَاءَكُمْ وَيَسْتَحْيُونَ نِسَاءَكُمْ وَفِي ذَلِكُم بَلاَءٌ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ عَظِيمٌ

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 07:05 PM
you are, but i am not offended

you are stuck in that mindset, and you like it there

enjoy

I thought you wanted daleel from Quran?

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 07:07 PM
one of the beauties of our deen is the sunnah and those who followed

the prophet started to make taraweeh, in jama, but stopped because he didnt want it to become a fard

he emphasized the use of miswak, but stopped short of making it a fard

umar was going to pray in a church in baytul maqdis, but didnt, lest people come after him and turn it into a masjid

everyone was concerned about adding unnecessary things and practices in this deen, except today, we add holidays, in spite of the injunction NOT to

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 07:07 PM
what kind of islam are you upon? when a companion came to umar, umar did not say, "your name is sufficient", he wanted proof that was linked to the prophet

you think name-dropping is justification for adding a new holiday in this religion?

Why are you so keen on holidays of Islam or religion.

According to holidays, then holiday can be anytime a person wants to do ibadah and there is no limit to it.

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 07:09 PM
one of the beauties of our deen is the sunnah and those who followed

the prophet started to make taraweeh, in jama, but stopped because he didnt want it to become a fard

he emphasized the use of miswak, but stopped short of making it a fard

umar was going to pray in a church in baytul maqdis, but didnt, lest people come after him and turn it into a masjid

everyone was concerned about adding unnecessary things and practices in this deen, except today, we add holidays, in spite of the injunction NOT to

Since when did holidays were called not to be added?

Do you have any daleel for it?

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 07:13 PM
And also from this ayah of Quran.

Surah yunus - 58


قُلْ بِفَضْلِ اللّهِ وَبِرَحْمَتِهِ فَبِذَلِكَ فَلْيَفْرَحُواْ هُوَ خَيْرٌ مِّمَّا يَجْمَعُونَ

When an arrogant speaks with ignorance, he will never speak anything good but arrogance full of ignorance.Not that I am calling you ignorant.


Also do tell me what do you infer from this ayah of Quran

Surah ibrahim 5 and 6.

وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا مُوسَى بِآيَاتِنَا أَنْ أَخْرِجْ قَوْمَكَ مِنَ الظُّلُمَاتِ إِلَى النُّورِ وَذَكِّرْهُمْ بِأَيَّامِ اللّهِ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِّكُلِّ صَبَّارٍ شَكُورٍ

6. وَإِذْ قَالَ مُوسَى لِقَوْمِهِ اذْكُرُواْ نِعْمَةَ اللّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذْ أَنْجَاكُم مِّنْ آلِ فِرْعَوْنَ يَسُومُونَكُمْ سُوءَ الْعَذَابِ وَيُذَبِّحُونَ أَبْنَاءَكُمْ وَيَسْتَحْيُونَ نِسَاءَكُمْ وَفِي ذَلِكُم بَلاَءٌ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ عَظِيمٌ
when i was a christian, i asked the people, why do you sing and dance in church? they pulled up some verses of the bible where it said, rejoice in the lords name

that was it

they justified all that music, and dancing, and singing from one or two verses in the bible

and as you may know, they take the sayings of jesus, where he said, its not what goes into the mouth, but what comes out of the mouth that is harmful, so they then eat pig, even though it is forbidden, based upon some extrapolating verses and sayings

i would hate to see muslims doing such things to this perfect deen

AbuMubarak
06-02-11, 07:14 PM
Since when did holidays were called not to be added?

Do you have any daleel for it?
we are finished

happy birthday

ahmed_abdullah
06-02-11, 07:18 PM
we are finished

happy birthday

Read the ayah I have posted, if you understand it by various tafasir.Then you will come to know that rahmah of Allah is syeddina rasulullah salellahualaihiwasalam.Where Allah orders, in the bounty of Allah and his mercy,in that let them rejoice, that is better than the wealth that one hoards and in the second ayah Allah calls for days of Allah.The day when the bounty for the bani isarael came and they were freed.So the days of Allah are beneficial.The days of Allah are those days when Allah bestowed the rahmah on all the mankind.And in that days of Allah is the day of the birth of Syeddina habiballah salellahualaihiwasalam.

And one should thank Allah for the rahmah.

Everytime, if not everytime then atleast sometime.

But one should.

Fais
06-02-11, 08:18 PM
shame on him? of course

did you laugh? did i say it for you to laugh? am i here trying to be your comic? no

i want you to see the silliness of this discussion, if you laughed, thats on you

No, i didn't laugh because i didnt find it funny. But someone else did.



lol

Now, if you were telling the truth ... and he laughed .. then its all fine and good. But if you made it up and he laughed .. then well .. its on you.

I posted it as a reminder .. Take from it what you want.



how you can argue this? you know the hadith on the one who argues just to argue?

its amazing that in this day and time, we have muslims who debate on celebrating birthdays, and on top of that, the prophet's birthday, and want to make it seem like its ok, a good thing, a good bida

lets dig thru some quran and sunnah and see if we can justify this? yes, faqir said that Allah commands us to be happy (daleel enough for me)

What you talking about? Im not arguing just to argue. I actually have a point to what im saying.

And if you have beef with 'daleel' that al faqeer posted .. then take it up with him. Why you telling me for?

My line of discussion is totally different to that of his.

We can go back and forth about whether there is such a thing as good bida (I believe there is) or not. But i dont think that (good bida) even needs to come into this discussion, if you break it down and see what the 'Mawlid' actually is, you'll see that it (good bida) doesn't even need to enter the topic. Because everything that happens at the gatherings is permissible and recommended (the one's ive been to anyway).

IbnulQayyim
06-02-11, 08:26 PM
Can't Mods disable all threads about Mawlid. There is enough on this from previous years. Even if there isn't. We need not start this Bid'ah or not Debate. It is fruitless. Have anyone of you seen pious 'Ulamaa doing this?

I call for a close.

Um Abdullah
06-02-11, 09:23 PM
The names are enough.No need of further conversation.They only verdict any act by the Quran and sunnah.

1. Opinions of scholars alone are no considered evidence in shari'ah.

2. Scholars are not free from error, and this issue is not just a non-ijma', it wasn't even known at the time of the salaf.


3. The first celebration of the mawlid was around 600 Hijri, and it definitely was not upon sunnah, it was full with innovations, you can read about the first mawlid here:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?244174-How-The-Mawlid-Began-The-story-of-The-First-Mawlid


So you are basically following the sunnah of the king of Irbil or the Fatimads in this matter, depending on who started it.

The Message was complete with the death of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam-, so any practice that is not supported by the texts, or ijma' of the ummah, is not part of Islam, and the mawlid was non=existent in the Muslim ummah until around 600 Hijri, so you do not even have a support from the 4 Imams, or the early sufis.

Um Abdullah
06-02-11, 09:37 PM
We can go back and forth about whether there is such a thing as good bida (I believe there is) or not. But i dont think that (good bida) even needs to come into this discussion, if you break it down and see what the 'Mawlid' actually is, you'll see that it (good bida) doesn't even need to enter the topic. Because everything that happens at the gatherings is permissible and recommended (the one's ive been to anyway).

I remember commenting on this in the past, but I don't know where it is now, I will see if I can find it, in summary, the problem isn't with the salat on the Prophet -sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, or reading his seerah and such that is done in some of the mawlid gatherings, the problem is with specifying a day, or week or month every year for this = a eid, and in Islam there are only two eids, Eid al Fitr, and al Adha, no 3rd Eid. And another innovated aspect of it is doing it as a celebration of His birth. None of the sahabah nor the pious salaf celebrated it, and our love for the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam is not even close to their love for him, the pious salaf showed their love for the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam by following his sunnah strictly.

muslim ak
06-02-11, 09:43 PM
1. Opinions of scholars alone are no considered evidence in shari'ah.

2. Scholars are not free from error, and this issue is not just a non-ijma', it wasn't even known at the time of the salaf.


3. The first celebration of the mawlid was around 600 Hijri, and it definitely was not upon sunnah, it was full with innovations, you can read about the first mawlid here:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?244174-How-The-Mawlid-Began-The-story-of-The-First-Mawlid


So you are basically following the sunnah of the king of Irbil or the Fatimads in this matter, depending on who started it.

The Message was complete with the death of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam-, so any practice that is not supported by the texts, or ijma' of the ummah, is not part of Islam, and the mawlid was non=existent in the Muslim ummah until around 600 Hijri, so you do not even have a support from the 4 Imams, or the early sufis.

1. we can't just ignore opinions of great scholars of Islam

2. yes scholars are not free from error, this is also true for the modern day scholars that say its not allowed.

before muhammed bin adbul wahab najdi only odd people such as ibn taymia etc were against it otherwise there has always been an ijmah regarding the mawlid because its a good bidah.

3. false !!
the first mawlid done publily was not done by faatimids or in 600 hijri.. for more info watch this youtube clip, english debate between a sufi and salafi only 8min 53 sec long

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vefusYHsdvc

Al_Ghurabaa
06-02-11, 10:09 PM
asalaamu alaikum, Dear Sheik, I am frm chennai,in our hometown now people started celebrating Melad e nabi and frm rabiul awval 1st day,people use to read the mawlid kitab as sacred as the Holy quran until 12th of this month.So pls tell me whether is there any HASANAS for reading these types of book and confirm me whether it is Halaal or Haram? Awaiting ur reply at the very earliest
Answer: 20428
14 Mar, 2010

(Fatwa: 414/339/B=1431)



Celebrating Eid Meelad al-nabi (the birthday of the Prophet) is not proved by Hadith and Quran. The companions of the holy Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) who held great respect and love for holy Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم), they never celebrated Eid Meelad. It is the invention of Christians which was invented following six hundred years after the holy Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم). We are not asked to celebrate the birthday or death-day of anyone. This day should be spent like other days.


Allah (Subhana Wa Ta'ala) Knows Best

Darul Ifta, Darul Uloom Deoband



I would like to know about milad and kiam specially in Bangladesh most of the places perfomed milad and kiam is there any proof in al quran or in hadis sharif if yes let me know where in quran or hadith and thay said rasul (s) hazir and nazir is it shirk?and shall I perfomed my prayer behind those imam who is following milad and kiam?
Answer: 2162
24 Nov, 2007

(Fatwa: 675/670=M)



The Meelad and Qiyam were not known in the age of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) and his companions and even in the age of TabÂ?een (those who followed the Companions). These things were innovated and introduced in later ages. Therefore, it is totally prohibited to follow such things and to condemn the Muslims who do not observe these acts. It is makrooh-e-tahreemi (undesirable to haram extent) to pray behind such imams who follow such customs. Believing that the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) is hazir and nazir is shirk (ascribing partner to Allah).


Allah (Subhana Wa Ta'ala) Knows Best

Darul Ifta, Darul Uloom Deoband



Assalamu-alaikum, An Aleem says: - traditional Eid-e-Milad-Un-nabi is Bid'ah. It is not Islamically right. But, it is true that Rasulullah SAWS himself celebrates the days MONDAYs keeping Fast since it was his birth day, day of Hizrat, day of getting Nabuwat etc. I would like to know, if it is correct and if so, can we keep fast on Mondays like our prophet SAWS ? Zazakallahu Khairan.
Answer: 4786
26 Jul, 2008

(Fatwa: 1131/975=B-1429)



The traditional Meelad is bid'ah, it has no proof. However, keeping fast on Monday is Mustahab (desirable), the Prophet (صلي الله عليه وسلم) used to keep fast on that day. It is in the Hadith:

سئل رسول الله عن صوم الإثنين فقال فيه ولدت وفيه أنزل علي (رواه مسلم)

"Prophet (صلي الله عليه وسلم) was asked about keeping fast on Monday, so he replied: on that very day I was born and the revelation came upon me on the same day".

It is said in another Hadith: "Good deeds are being presented on Monday and Thursday and I like my good deeds to be presented while I am keeping fast." (Tirmizi)

These are the virtues and reasons behind keeping fast on Monday. The person whom Allah has given strength should keep fast on that day, it is a matter of great virtue.


Allah (Subhana Wa Ta'ala) Knows Best

Darul Ifta, Darul Uloom Deoband

muslim ak
06-02-11, 10:41 PM
but its o.k for deobandis to have a "seerah conference" coincidently in rabi ul awwal !!

is not this bidah ??

Al_Ghurabaa
07-02-11, 03:42 AM
but its o.k for deobandis to have a "seerah conference" coincidently in rabi ul awwal !!

is not this bidah ??

They are not making the birthday of our beloved prophet (saw) an eid.

al faqeer
07-02-11, 06:23 AM
Not here my brother, people will have huge gatherings on the 12th only, they wouldnt fast every monday, the only excuse is that its the nabi (saw) birthday so they tend to crowd the masjids on that specific day. Now im asking you, is this bidah, or not? And please answer honestly,

Did the nabi (saw) hold gatherings on his bday? After the nabi (saw) death, did Abu Bakr (ra) gather people to send peace and blessings upon the prophet, did they even mention mawlid?

Did you watch the video i had posted? Wasnt the sheikhs answer sufficient.

Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen said:

Every holiday or celebration that differs from the Sharee'ah celebrations is a newly-invented innovation that was not known during the time of the Pious Predecessors. Furthermore, it may have begun as an imitation of the non-Muslims. Therefore, in addition to it being an innovation, it may also be an act of resembling the enemies of Allaah. The Sharee'ah holidays are well-known among the Muslims. These are the `Eed al-Fitr, `Eed al-Adhha and the weekly `Eed [Fridays]. There is no holiday or festival in Islaam other than those three. Every holiday that is invented besides them is to be rejected as an innovation and falsehood in the Sharee'ah. This is because the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) said:

((Every deed introduced into our affair that does not belong to it is rejected)).

Allahu Alam

Thats salafi Hanbali opinion we are not obliged to follow , The rest of the Madhabs categorized Bidah into two and allow MAwlid , So there is no ijmaa3 on your stance .

We reject your stance :) .

al faqeer
07-02-11, 06:29 AM
QUESTION: So y didnt imam shaafi'ee do the mawlid then?!

BCZ HE KNEW IT WAS NOT "GOOD"!!!!!!!

Why they didnt celebrate is not the case , what refutes you is the categorization of Bidah which we base our reason for celebrating mawlid :) .

al faqeer
07-02-11, 06:31 AM
To honour him is to follow his way...

And the mawlid is NOT from his (saw) way...

Who says that ? :)

If anyone from the salafis say it we simple reject it , cause we have the rest of the schools of thought that say otherwise . No Ijmaa3 from the Salafi side .

al faqeer
07-02-11, 06:36 AM
good biddah is that which has roots in islam. example, usool al fiqh has roots in the quran. Allaah says 'when a person comes 2 u with news, VERIFY IT b4 u spread it."

This lead the khalaf to do usool al fiqh... but we know tht every inovation that has no root in islam is an innovation!

read this:

The Prophet (saw) said:

“…Beware of newly invented matters, for every invented matter is an innovation and every innovation is a going astray, and every going astray is in Hell-fire.” (1)

Likewise ‘Abdullaah Ibn Mas’ood – may Allaah have mercy upon him - said:

“Follow and do not innovate, for indeed you have been sufficed, and every innovation is misguidance.” (2)

Also, Ibn ‘Umar (ra) mentioned:

“Every biddah is a misguidance, even if the people see it as something good.” (3)

And then some people bring ‘proof’ from the khalaf saying there is something as ‘good biddah’?

Source for refernces: http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/every-innovation-is-a-misguidance/

SubhaanAllaah how many times do i have to go around repeating myself?!

Imam Al-Suyuti:
“To commemorate the mawlid which is basically gathering people together, reciting parts of the Quran, narrating stories about the Prophet's birth and signs that accompanied it, then serving food and afterwards departing, is one of the good innovations, and the one who practices it gets rewarded, because it involves venerating the status of the Prophet and expressing joy for his honorable birth.” (Alhawi lil-Fatawi)
Imam Shamsu Din bin Nasir Al Dimashqi.
"This Abu Lahab, unbeliever , who has been dispraised, will stay in Hell forever. Yet, every Monday his torment is being reduced because of his joy at the birth of the Prophet." How much mercy can a servant expect who spends all his life joyous about the Prophet and dies believing in the Oneness of Allah? (Mawlid al Sadi fi Mawlid Al Hadi.)

Imam Ibn Al Jawzi
"It is security throughout the year, and glad tidings that all wishes and desires will be fulfilled."
Imam Abu Shama (Imam Nawawi's shaykh)
"One of the best innovations in our time is what is being done every year on the Prophets birthday, such as giving charity, doing good deeds, displaying ornaments, and expressing joy, for that expresses the feelings of love and veneration for him in the hearts of those who are celebrating, and also, shows thankfulness to Allah for His bounty by sending His Messenger, the one who has been sent as a Mercy to the worlds." (Al ba'ith ala Inkar Al bida` wal hawadith, Page-23)
Imam Al Shihab Al Qastalani (Al Bukhari's commentator)
"May Allah have mercy on the one who turns the nights of the month of the Prophets birth into festivities in order to decrease the suffering of those whose hearts are filled with disease and sickness." (Al mawahib Al Ladunniya, 1-148)
Mufti of Mecca Ahmad ibn Zayni Dahlan
"To celebrate the Mawlid and to remember the Prophet is accepted by all the Ulama of the Muslims." Most of the following quotations are taken from that work. (Al-Sira al-nabawiyya wa al-athar al-muhammadiyya, page 51)

Imam Subki
"When we were celebrating the Prophet's birthday , a great uns (familiarity) comes to our heart, and we feel something special."

Hafiz al-Dhahabi:
"He [Muzaffar] loved charity (sadaqa)... and built four hospices for the poor and sick... and one house for women, one for orphans, one for the homeless, and he himself used to visit the sick... ….As for his celebration of the Noble Mawlid al-Nabawi, words are too poor to describe it. The people used to come all the way from Iraq and Algeria to attend it. Two wooden dais would be erected and decorated for him and his wife... the celebration would last several days, and a huge quantity of cows and camels would be brought out to be sacrificed and cooked in different ways... Preachers would roam the field exhorting the people. Great sums were spent -as charity( Siyar a`lam al-nubala')

Imam Shawkani
"It is permissible to celebrate the Prophet's birthday." (Al-Badr At-tali)

Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-Haytami
"….Ibn Hajar continues, “One gives thanks to Allah for the favor that He gave on a particular day either through a great good, or through the averting of a disaster. That day is celebrated every year thereafter. Thanksgiving entails various forms of worship like prostration, fast, charity, and recitation of Qur'an, and what greater good is there than the advent of that Prophet, the Prophet of Mercy, on the day of Mawlid?"
Imam Ibn Kathir:
“The Night of the Prophet's birth May Allah bless him and grant him peace, is a magnificent, noble, blessed and holy night, a night of for the Believers, pure, radiant with lights and of immeasureable price” (Dhikr Mawlid rasulullah wa Rida' atihi)

Dr. `Isa al-Mani` al-Humayri, Department of Awqaaf, Dubai
Yes we should celebrate it every year.
And every month and every week.
And every hour and every moment.
There are others who wrote and spoke about Mawlid, such as Imam Al Sakhawi, Imam Wajihu Din bin Ali bin al Dayba' al Shaybani al Zubaidi, and many more , which we will not mention due to the limited space available. Among those scholars is the Maliki jurist Taaj Ad-Deen Umar Ibn Al-Lakhmi Al-Sakandari known as Al-Fakahaani(Al-Mawrid fil Kalaam Ala-Mawlid), As-Syooti(Husn Al-Maqsid fi a’mal al-mawlid. Page-251-262).

Many books were written on the Prophet's birthday such as the stories of Ibn Dahya, Muhy Ed-Deen Ibn Al-`Arabi, Ibn Taghrabik, and Ahmad Al-`Azli and his son Muhammad, Imam Mohammed bin Abu Bakr Abdullah Al Qaisi Al Dimashqi(Jami' Al Athar fi Mawlid, Al Nabiy Al Mukhtar), Imam Al `Iraqi(Al Mawlid al heni fi al Mawlid al sani), Mulla `Ali Al Qari(Al Mawlid Al rawi fil Mawlid al Nabawi), Imam Ibn Dahiya(Al Tanweer fi Mawlid Al basheer Al Nadheer), Imam Shamsu Din Ibn Al Jazri(Urf Al Ta'reef bil Mawlid al shareef), Ibn al-Jawzi((booklet of poems and Sira entitled Mawlid al-arus)

Even the Salafi Sheikhs permitted to celebrate the Milad Sherif. See the front page what Ibn-Taimiyah and Ibn Abdiwahab said about Milad.

Ibn Qayyim al Jawziyyah (Student of Ibn Taimiyah):
"Listening to a good voice celebrating the birthday of the Prophet (s) or celebrating any of the holy days in our history gives peace to the heart, and gives the listener light from the Prophet (s) to his heart, and he will drink more from the Muhammadan spring -a’yn al-Muhammadiyya"(Madarij as-Salikin, Page 498)

Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi said:
Sa’d Ibn Abi Waqqaas said that they were keen on telling their children the stories of the Prophet's battles just as they were keen on teaching them the Qur'an. Therefore, they used to remind their children of what happened during the Prophet's lifetime so they did not need to hold such celebrations. However, the following generations began to forget such a glorious history and its significance. So such celebrations were held as a means of reviving great events and the values that we can learn from them(Fatawa date April 19 2001).

Tell that to those scholars , And i already refuted your Bidah stance mate from classical Sunnah scholars :

al faqeer
07-02-11, 06:39 AM
lol, u make me laugh... All this ^ was done by the salaf!

Who from the salaf done the mawlid?

Can you Show me who of the first centuries used the word Aqeedah :) ?

al faqeer
07-02-11, 06:42 AM
Ummm... r u more 'happier' than the sahaabah?
r u more 'happier' than aboo haneefah?
r u more 'happier' than imam bukhari?

the further away from the source means the weaker we become so those who comemmorate it now will indeed be the prophet PBUH brothers like he PBUH prophecized .

Your Qiyas of Sahaaba is baloney , Show me where they had Three Tawheeds and used the word Aqeedah which is so important to you lot , Show me where they did Misyar :D LOL

al faqeer
07-02-11, 06:48 AM
why play games? if you have anything that shows that the companions or even the tabi'een celebrated the prophet's birthday, bring it on

you wont be able to, of course not

but then again, you could read 500,000 hadiths and maybe you can find it for us

we await your response

We dont need to do that , Why dont you Show me , where they did Misyar marriage :) and used the Term Aqeedah ( which is your so important word ) where did they use three tawheeds ? , see ?

al faqeer
07-02-11, 06:52 AM
lol... the sahaabah never done it... what do u say about tht?

YEah they invented the word aqeedah when exactly ? :)

ahmed_abdullah
07-02-11, 07:21 AM
1. Opinions of scholars alone are no considered evidence in shari'ah.

2. Scholars are not free from error, and this issue is not just a non-ijma', it wasn't even known at the time of the salaf.


And you are not free from error.

This is your error.That you don't listen to great scholars of Islam but derive your own rulings based on your own psychology.

There is on one side very great scholars of Islam who hold the knowledge of oceans whose verdicts are from Quran and sunnah and there is you on other side whom I don't even know.

I know who to choose and who has better knowledge of Islam.

al faqeer
07-02-11, 07:33 AM
1. Opinions of scholars alone are no considered evidence in shari'ah.

2. Scholars are not free from error, and this issue is not just a non-ijma', it wasn't even known at the time of the salaf.


3. The first celebration of the mawlid was around 600 Hijri, and it definitely was not upon sunnah, it was full with innovations, you can read about the first mawlid here:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?244174-How-The-Mawlid-Began-The-story-of-The-First-Mawlid


So you are basically following the sunnah of the king of Irbil or the Fatimads in this matter, depending on who started it.

The Message was complete with the death of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam-, so any practice that is not supported by the texts, or ijma' of the ummah, is not part of Islam, and the mawlid was non=existent in the Muslim ummah until around 600 Hijri, so you do not even have a support from the 4 Imams, or the early sufis.

Kul 3aam wa antum Bikhair ya Um Abdullah .

Exactly thats where hanbali scaholars made the mistake and didnt categorize bidah , thats why you have what we have today Ikhtilaaf on Bidah and no Ijmaa3 from Ahlus sunnah only from Ahlus salafiya :) .

Sunni Student
07-02-11, 12:07 PM
I remember commenting on this in the past, but I don't know where it is now, I will see if I can find it, in summary, the problem isn't with the salat on the Prophet -sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, or reading his seerah and such that is done in some of the mawlid gatherings, the problem is with specifying a day, or week or month every year for this = a eid, and in Islam there are only two eids, Eid al Fitr, and al Adha, no 3rd Eid. And another innovated aspect of it is doing it as a celebration of His birth. None of the sahabah nor the pious salaf celebrated it, and our love for the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam is not even close to their love for him, the pious salaf showed their love for the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam by following his sunnah strictly.

Jummah was also termed as a Eid by the Prophet :saw: also showing Shukr to Allah for a favour he bestowed on a particular day is from the Sunnah, this is the very reason for the significance of the two Eids, and it is the very significance of why we fast on the 10th of Ashura for it was the day Allah saved Musa Alayhissalam and his people from Firown.

This is not my opnion, rather this is the basis Ibn Hajr Al-Asqalani and Imam Suyuti use to show shukr for a favour bestowed on a specific day.

Also you said in anotehr post the scholars are not free from error, indeed they are not, but also your understanding of innovation is based on the understanding of the scholars, or in fact your own understanding of the hadiths regarding innovation. So in short it is some scholars understanding of Innovation vs some other scholars understanding of innovation, or some laymen understanding of innovation vs some other laymens understanding of innovation.

Also regarding a point sister keekee made about Birthdays, please could you provide daleel that giving significance to the day you were born is against the Shariah. If one was to fast on the date he was born, or was to pray Nawafil in Shukr to Allah on that day, or was to offer Sadaqah, recite Quran etc... Would this not be allowed? In fact their is a basis for this from the Sunnah of the Prophet :saw: as he fasted on Monday because it was teh day he was born, then cannot one fast on say 10th of Shaban if he or she was born on that day? You are falling into the error of reading too much into the term 'celebration', by this it is not a celebration of the kind the Christians do on both their birthdays and the alleged Birthday of Isa [Alayhissalam]. Rather the celebration we speak of in terms of Mawlid is nothing more than showing Shukr to Allah for the favour he bestowed through the Birth of the Prophet :saw: and contains nothing more than what is already firmly established in the Shariah such as recitation of the Quran, Praising the Prophet, narrating his Seerah, feeding of the people and so fourth.

It is also strange that many of those who use the argument that Muslims are not supposed to celebrate Birthdays thats why we do Mawlid, at the same time take part in the Birthdays of their family members. If this is not double standards then I do not know what it. It is fine to rejoice and show happiness for their the day their own son or daughter was born but when it comes to rejoicing for the day the Beloved of Allah :saw: was born this is an Innovation. Subhanallah

al faqeer
07-02-11, 12:19 PM
I remember commenting on this in the past, but I don't know where it is now, I will see if I can find it, in summary, the problem isn't with the salat on the Prophet -sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, or reading his seerah and such that is done in some of the mawlid gatherings, the problem is with specifying a day, or week or month every year for this = a eid, and in Islam there are only two eids, Eid al Fitr, and al Adha, no 3rd Eid. And another innovated aspect of it is doing it as a celebration of His birth. None of the sahabah nor the pious salaf celebrated it, and our love for the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam is not even close to their love for him, the pious salaf showed their love for the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam by following his sunnah strictly.

Its nt an Eid sister UA , we have already been through this for the past 6 years :) .

Most people who i know who do mawlid do it on different days during the week , and in rabea3 awal every day of the month or maybe i am exaggerating i am not sure but - if its taken only one day the whole year , then it will be bidah .

AbuMubarak
07-02-11, 12:36 PM
And you are not free from error.

This is your error.That you don't listen to great scholars of Islam but derive your own rulings based on your own psychology.

There is on one side very great scholars of Islam who hold the knowledge of oceans whose verdicts are from Quran and sunnah and there is you on other side whom I don't even know.

I know who to choose and who has better knowledge of Islam.
so this sister and the many other muslims and scholars who do not partake in this new holiday are basing it in their own psychology?

she is following her hawa, and you are following quran and sunnah

right

al faqeer
07-02-11, 12:42 PM
so this sister and the many other muslims and scholars who do not partake in this new holiday are basing it in their own psychology?

she is following her hawa, and you are following quran and sunnah

right

Not Hawa But Manhaj , Within the Sunnah which is Salafi Hanbali Fiqhi Deiduction but they have no Ijmaa3 as per Ahlus sunnah as a whole .

IbnulQayyim
07-02-11, 01:07 PM
Jummah was also termed as a Eid by the Prophet :saw: also showing Shukr to Allah for a favour he bestowed on a particular day is from the Sunnah, this is the very reason for the significance of the two Eids, and it is the very significance of why we fast on the 10th of Ashura for it was the day Allah saved Musa Alayhissalam and his people from Firown.

This is not my opnion, rather this is the basis Ibn Hajr Al-Asqalani and Imam Suyuti use to show shukr for a favour bestowed on a specific day.

Also you said in anotehr post the scholars are not free from error, indeed they are not, but also your understanding of innovation is based on the understanding of the scholars, or in fact your own understanding of the hadiths regarding innovation. So in short it is some scholars understanding of Innovation vs some other scholars understanding of innovation, or some laymen understanding of innovation vs some other laymens understanding of innovation.

Also regarding a point sister keekee made about Birthdays, please could you provide daleel that giving significance to the day you were born is against the Shariah. If one was to fast on the date he was born, or was to pray Nawafil in Shukr to Allah on that day, or was to offer Sadaqah, recite Quran etc... Would this not be allowed? In fact their is a basis for this from the Sunnah of the Prophet :saw: as he fasted on Monday because it was teh day he was born, then cannot one fast on say 10th of Shaban if he or she was born on that day? You are falling into the error of reading too much into the term 'celebration', by this it is not a celebration of the kind the Christians do on both their birthdays and the alleged Birthday of Isa [Alayhissalam]. Rather the celebration we speak of in terms of Mawlid is nothing more than showing Shukr to Allah for the favour he bestowed through the Birth of the Prophet :saw: and contains nothing more than what is already firmly established in the Shariah such as recitation of the Quran, Praising the Prophet, narrating his Seerah, feeding of the people and so fourth.

It is also strange that many of those who use the argument that Muslims are not supposed to celebrate Birthdays thats why we do Mawlid, at the same time take part in the Birthdays of their family members. If this is not double standards then I do not know what it. It is fine to rejoice and show happiness for their the day their own son or daughter was born but when it comes to rejoicing for the day the Beloved of Allah :saw: was born this is an Innovation. Subhanallah

:salams habeeb al akhee.

Who are you to tell me what Islaam is! I have the Hadeeth and the Qur'aan.
Such and such Shaykh says in Fataawa blah blah that this not upon the Sunnah, you mubtadi' you Mudil! Stop following your desi Mullaahs. See what my Shaykh has said. Stop taking 'ilm from Ibn Hajr on this! This is a Bid'ah and ever Bid'ah is Misguidance and is a pathway for Hell-fire. The Prophet :saw: and His Companions [radiyallaahu 'anhu] never did this! Indeed I have only read 20 Hadeeth in my entire life, but my Shaykhs never make mistakes!!! You Daal, Mudil!

Lol kidding bro, I think I summarized what I wanted to say above in a sarcastic manner. Dont mind it lol

Sunni Student
07-02-11, 01:43 PM
:salams habeeb al akhee.

Who are you to tell me what Islaam is! I have the Hadeeth and the Qur'aan.
Such and such Shaykh says in Fataawa blah blah that this not upon the Sunnah, you mubtadi' you Mudil! Stop following your desi Mullaahs. See what my Shaykh has said. Stop taking 'ilm from Ibn Hajr on this! This is a Bid'ah and ever Bid'ah is Misguidance and is a pathway for Hell-fire. The Prophet :saw: and His Companions [radiyallaahu 'anhu] never did this! Indeed I have only read 20 Hadeeth in my entire life, but my Shaykhs never make mistakes!!! You Daal, Mudil!


^ It would have been better like that, It was obvious to me that it was sarcasm. But someone would have come along not realising and replied saying "Mashallah that is a great post, there is no refuting this" lol

bintsalman
07-02-11, 02:00 PM
^ It would have been better like that, It was obvious to me that it was sarcasm. But someone would have come along not realising and replied saying "Mashallah that is a great post, there is no refuting this" lol

so your believe in celebrating mawlid is strong or you are as well kidding.i personally don't celebrate but still respect those who celebrate.

Al_Ghurabaa
07-02-11, 02:02 PM
If indeed the sending of our beloved prophet (saw) to mankind is celebrated throughout the year by partaking in seerah and Ibadah and such then of course this wouldn't be bidah but when people single out one day and turn it into an eid and partake in all this extra Ibadah with the hopes of getting extra reward then that's a bidah. Sadly, many of the Muslims who celebrate mawlid do this and even though I can't speak for other countries, in my home country of turkey this is the situation. People who havent gone to the masjid in the whole year decide to come on the night of mawlid and read Quran and do all this extra Ibadah while others throw celebrations and make all this food and turn it into an eid. Also you have everyone calling each other saying "mawlid mubarak." This I see as a bidah.

al faqeer
07-02-11, 02:11 PM
If indeed the sending of our beloved prophet (saw) to mankind is celebrated throughout the year by partaking in seerah and Ibadah and such then of course this wouldn't be bidah but when people single out one day and turn it into an eid and partake in all this extra Ibadah with the hopes of getting extra reward then that's a bidah. Sadly, many of the Muslims who celebrate mawlid do this and even though I can't speak for other countries, in my home country of turkey this is the situation. People who havent gone to the masjid in the whole year decide to come on the night of mawlid and read Quran and do all this extra Ibadah while others throw celebrations and make all this food and turn it into an eid. Also you have everyone calling each other saying "mawlid mubarak." This I see as a bidah.

Brother but what if Allah SWT actually accepts them ? would you have an objection if Allah SWT accepted that one day ?from them .

TheAuthenticBase
07-02-11, 02:18 PM
^^ Funny guy called nasir uddin al abani.Majority of the ulema ul deen ahle sunnah wah jammah don't even consider him to be a scholar, leave aside the muhadith title.

typical quarrelsome person, ignoring my point, diverging from the subject, just admit u have no answer... WHY DONT U JUST SUBMIT TO THE SUNNAH?

TheAuthenticBase
07-02-11, 02:19 PM
How many ahadith have you read in your whole life?

I don't think you might have read more than 1000, have you ?

Show me just one narration where the sahaabha said something about the mawlid the way u innovators do it....

Simple...

the sahaabha fasted every mon and thursday...

i wonder hoew many of these innovators do that?

TheAuthenticBase
07-02-11, 02:20 PM
You didn't answer my first question.

And you can't just disassociate yourself from the Khalaf when they differ with you on something like Bida.

Because there's a Hadith which says: He who innovates (an act or practice) or gives protection to an innovator, there is a curse of Allah and that of His angels and that of the whole humanity upon him. [Muslim]

So how is it you only disassociate yourself from the Khalaf when they mention good Bida but then take from them at other times, in light of the Hadith post above?

This is the problem... ppl focusing too much on the khalaf... leaving of focusing on the salaf! subhaanAllaah. May Allaah guide this ummah!

TheAuthenticBase
07-02-11, 02:26 PM
You stated right it is my culture and my culture is from Islam alhumdulilah.After all culture of Islam is sunnah of syeddina rasulallah salellahualaihiwasalam

Seems like with my culture the following great Scholars of Islam have also agreed.Which are as follows.

1.Imam Ibn Kathir rahimullah alai
2.Imam Shahab-ud-din Abul Abbas al-Qastallan rahimullah alai
3.Imam Jalal ud din Suyuti rahimullah alai
4.Shaykh ul islam ibn hajar asqalani rahimullah alai
5.Imam Shams-ud-din Dimishqi rahimullah alai
6.Imam Ibn Jawzi rahimullah alai


And the list of great mashaykh goes on until my lips become dry.

funny how u seem to ignopre a fundamental principle...

NO1 IS INFALLIBLE!!!

u quiote them, ok, i quote:

Imaam abu haneefdah
imaam maalik
Imaam ash-shaafi'ee
Imaam Ahmad
imaam bukhaaree
Imaam muslim
imaam an-nisaa'ee
imaam tirmidhee
imaam aboo daawood
alii ibn madeenee
yahya ibn ma'een
hasan al basri
sufyaan ath-thawree
aboo bakr
umar
uthman
ali
hasan bin ali
hussain bin ali

and the list can go on..

now ask urself

Who is following the salaf and who is following the khalaf?

lol

al faqeer
07-02-11, 02:28 PM
This is the problem... ppl focusing too much on the khalaf... leaving of focusing on the salaf! subhaanAllaah. May Allaah guide this ummah!

So Ibn Taymiyyah , Ibn Qayyim , Al Albani , Bin Baz etc. all great Khalaf scholars the ones you actually follow non are from the salaf , so whats the problem with following the Good the Khalaf gave Isalm ?

al faqeer
07-02-11, 02:29 PM
funny how u seem to ignopre a fundamental principle...

NO1 IS INFALLIBLE!!!

u quiote them, ok, i quote:

Imaam abu haneefdah
imaam maalik
Imaam ash-shaafi'ee
Imaam Ahmad
imaam bukhaaree
Imaam muslim
imaam an-nisaa'ee
imaam tirmidhee
imaam aboo daawood
alii ibn madeenee
yahya ibn ma'een
hasan al basri
sufyaan ath-thawree
aboo bakr
umar
uthman
ali
hasan bin ali
hussain bin ali

and the list can go on..

now ask urself

Who is following the salaf and who is following the khalaf?

lol

I have given you Quotes of the scholars why have you ignored it :) , you have also been given hadeeths of BIdah hasanah why cant you handle it ?

scared ?

TheAuthenticBase
07-02-11, 02:30 PM
Read the ayah I have posted, if you understand it by various tafasir.Then you will come to know that rahmah of Allah is syeddina rasulullah salellahualaihiwasalam.Where Allah orders, in the bounty of Allah and his mercy,in that let them rejoice, that is better than the wealth that one hoards and in the second ayah Allah calls for days of Allah.The day when the bounty for the bani isarael came and they were freed.So the days of Allah are beneficial.The days of Allah are those days when Allah bestowed the rahmah on all the mankind.And in that days of Allah is the day of the birth of Syeddina habiballah salellahualaihiwasalam.

And one should thank Allah for the rahmah.

Everytime, if not everytime then atleast sometime.

But one should.

Dude, i've answered this question like a million times!

THE SAHAABAH NEVER UNDERSTOOD FROM THIS AYAH THAT U SHUD DO THE MILAAD!!!!

So obviously ANY! with the slightest of common sense would conclude that YOU are upon an methadology and understanding DIFFERENT to that of the SAHAABAH!!!

SubhaanAllaah i feel as if im going around in circles!

al faqeer
07-02-11, 02:32 PM
Dude, i've answered this question like a million times!

THE SAHAABAH NEVER UNDERSTOOD FROM THIS AYAH THAT U SHUD DO THE MILAAD!!!!

So obviously ANY! with the slightest of common sense would conclude that YOU are upon an methadology and understanding DIFFERENT to that of the SAHAABAH!!!

SubhaanAllaah i feel as if im going around in circles!

Who says we cant do something the sahaaba didnt do ? :)

Meelaad is Quran , seerah and Poetry , The Sahaaba did all of that.

TheAuthenticBase
07-02-11, 02:36 PM
Thats salafi Hanbali opinion we are not obliged to follow , The rest of the Madhabs categorized Bidah into two and allow MAwlid , So there is no ijmaa3 on your stance .

We reject your stance :) .

U obviously never read what ABOO HANEEFAH said!!!:


As Imaam Abu Haneefah (rahimahullaah) said:


“Adhere to the Athaar (narrations) and the Tareeqah (way) of the Salaf and beware of newly invented matters, for all of it is innovation.”

[Reported by As-Suyootee in Sawn al-Mantaq Wal -Kalaam, p. 32.]

Typical innovator speaking without knowledge

OH AND BY THE WAY... IF the 4 imams were for "good biddah" WHY DIDNT THEY DO THE MAWLID THEN?! Duh!

BCZ they NEVER saw it as something 'good'!!!

Sunni Student
07-02-11, 02:37 PM
funny how u seem to ignopre a fundamental principle...

NO1 IS INFALLIBLE!!!

u quiote them, ok, i quote:

Imaam abu haneefdah
imaam maalik
Imaam ash-shaafi'ee
Imaam Ahmad
imaam bukhaaree
Imaam muslim
imaam an-nisaa'ee
imaam tirmidhee
imaam aboo daawood
alii ibn madeenee
yahya ibn ma'een
hasan al basri
sufyaan ath-thawree
aboo bakr
umar
uthman
ali
hasan bin ali
hussain bin ali

and the list can go on..

now ask urself

Who is following the salaf and who is following the khalaf?

lol

^ May Allah be pleased with them all, please do address these noble men as they deserved to be adressed.

Specificly speaking of the Mawlid, your reasoning is not valid, the practice was not established at that time so they have not said anything of it, neither against it nor for it. We can only look to the scholars who have issued fatwas on this practice since its emergance. It is like me arguing Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Shafi, Sayyidina Abu Bakr, Sayyidana Umar [May Allah be pleased with them all] were all against suicide bombing as it is called, but wait, non of these spoke of it? Well how could they have when the practice of suicide bombing never existed.

So what do the scholars of Fiqh do? They see if this practice is against the Shariah or in harmony with it, if it is the former it is to be rejected as a evil innovation if it is the latter then it is anything but. Rather literally it is still an innovation but is it evil? No, so what is it? I will let you answer that.

As for Bid'a then on this issue you cannot claim you have showed us the understanding of all of those noble persons you cited above.

It is simple, if the Mawlid was against the Shariah in anyway then we would not give any significance to it, but as it is not then there is no objection to it.

TheAuthenticBase
07-02-11, 02:40 PM
Can you Show me who of the first centuries used the word Aqeedah :) ?

Imaam ash-Shaatibee (rahima-hullaah) mentions:
"Linguistically bid’ah (innovation) means ‘a newly invented matter’.
The Sharee’ah definition of bid’ah is: “A newly invented way [beliefs or action] in the religion, in imitation of the Sharee’ah (prescribed Law), by which nearness to Allaah is sought, [but] not being supported by any authentic proof – neither in its foundations, nor in the manner in which it is performed." [al-I’tisaam of ash-Shaatibee, 1/37]

When i say the word aqeedah im not getting closer to allaha (by saying that word) but u innovators believe that by doing the mawlid u r getting closer to Allaah...

And1 with aql knows the difference

Fais
07-02-11, 02:42 PM
I remember commenting on this in the past, but I don't know where it is now, I will see if I can find it, in summary, the problem isn't with the salat on the Prophet -sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, or reading his seerah and such that is done in some of the mawlid gatherings, the problem is with specifying a day, or week or month every year for this = a eid, and in Islam there are only two eids, Eid al Fitr, and al Adha, no 3rd Eid. And another innovated aspect of it is doing it as a celebration of His birth. None of the sahabah nor the pious salaf celebrated it, and our love for the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam is not even close to their love for him, the pious salaf showed their love for the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam by following his sunnah strictly.

I remember that too, my bad manners got the better of me, if i remember correctly. :scratch:

To be honest, i agree with what you have said.

TheAuthenticBase
07-02-11, 02:42 PM
And you are not free from error.

This is your error.That you don't listen to great scholars of Islam but derive your own rulings based on your own psychology.

There is on one side very great scholars of Islam who hold the knowledge of oceans whose verdicts are from Quran and sunnah and there is you on other side whom I don't even know.

I know who to choose and who has better knowledge of Islam.

1) The salaf have more knowledge than the khalaf

2) the salaf have more love 4 the prophet(saw) than the khalaf...

And the salafs love didnt drive them to do this innovated mawlid

muslim ak
07-02-11, 02:42 PM
funny how u seem to ignopre a fundamental principle...

NO1 IS INFALLIBLE!!!

u quiote them, ok, i quote:

Imaam abu haneefdah
imaam maalik
Imaam ash-shaafi'ee
Imaam Ahmad
imaam bukhaaree
Imaam muslim
imaam an-nisaa'ee
imaam tirmidhee
imaam aboo daawood
alii ibn madeenee
yahya ibn ma'een
hasan al basri
sufyaan ath-thawree
aboo bakr
umar
uthman
ali
hasan bin ali
hussain bin ali

and the list can go on..

now ask urself

Who is following the salaf and who is following the khalaf?

lol


do the people you name say that mawlid is not allowed ?? :confused:

in fact all the people you name did good bidah which the Prophet peace be upon him or the Quran did not tell them to do such as read taraweeh in one congregation, read the Quran compiled in one book...

if you people can't understand the definition of bidah then where just going to go round in circles !!

TheAuthenticBase
07-02-11, 02:45 PM
I remember that too, my bad manners got the better of me, if i remember correctly. :scratch:

To be honest, i agree with what you have said.

read this: http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/the-consequences-of-bidda-extremism-in-the-religion/

TheAuthenticBase
07-02-11, 02:46 PM
Who says we cant do something the sahaaba didnt do ? :)

Meelaad is Quran , seerah and Poetry , The Sahaaba did all of that.

How many times do i have to tell u to read this: http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/the-consequences-of-bidda-extremism-in-the-religion/

SubhaanAlaah the ignorance of some...

Sunni Student
07-02-11, 02:47 PM
U obviously never read what ABOO HANEEFAH said!!!:


As Imaam Abu Haneefah (rahimahullaah) said:


“Adhere to the Athaar (narrations) and the Tareeqah (way) of the Salaf and beware of newly invented matters, for all of it is innovation.”

[Reported by As-Suyootee in Sawn al-Mantaq Wal -Kalaam, p. 32.]

Typical innovator speaking without knowledge

OH AND BY THE WAY... IF the 4 imams were for "good biddah" WHY DIDNT THEY DO THE MAWLID THEN?! Duh!

BCZ they NEVER saw it as something 'good'!!!

The irony of your post is almost laughable, you cite Imam Abu Hanifa quoted by Imam Suyuti. Yet I am sure you are aware of the latters stance on Mawlid? So hang on, I wonder what he understood of Imam Abu Hanifa's statement on Bid'a?

If the Sahaba had the understanding you had, we would not hear of Sayyidina Bilal [May Allah be pleased with him] praying 2 Rakah nawafil every time he completed Wudhu, why? He would say hang on...The Prophet :saw: did not do this, why should i? La! This was not his thinking, rather his thinking was...this is not against the deen in anyway, so I can do this, and this is confirmed from the Prophet :saw: for he attributed this very practice of Bilal with the reason of why he can hear Bilal's footsteps in Jannah, if you are not aware of this incident look it up, it is from an authentic narration.

Sunni Student
07-02-11, 02:48 PM
How many times do i have to tell u to read this: http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/the-consequences-of-bidda-extremism-in-the-religion/

SubhaanAlaah the ignorance of some...

A Blog is Innovation, non of the Salaf used this means to propogate the deen. Are the methods the Salaf used not enough for you?

al faqeer
07-02-11, 02:48 PM
Imaam ash-Shaatibee (rahima-hullaah) mentions:
"Linguistically bid’ah (innovation) means ‘a newly invented matter’.
The Sharee’ah definition of bid’ah is: “A newly invented way [beliefs or action] in the religion, in imitation of the Sharee’ah (prescribed Law), by which nearness to Allaah is sought, [but] not being supported by any authentic proof – neither in its foundations, nor in the manner in which it is performed." [al-I’tisaam of ash-Shaatibee, 1/37]

When i say the word aqeedah im not getting closer to allaha (by saying that word) but u innovators believe that by doing the mawlid u r getting closer to Allaah...

And1 with aql knows the difference

The Word Aqeedah is the most important thing in Islam according to you so its the basis for All Ibadahs :)

Its nowhere to be found in the Quran , Or in the sunnah , or from the sahaaba or even Taabi3eeen ?

Why ?

al faqeer
07-02-11, 02:49 PM
How many times do i have to tell u to read this: http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/the-consequences-of-bidda-extremism-in-the-religion/

SubhaanAlaah the ignorance of some...

I already read that baloney mate , and have refuted it , but you couldnt answer me till now .

ahaneefah
07-02-11, 02:52 PM
Imam Suyuti clearly stated "There is no nass (text) on its permissibility only qiyas". This is a clear and explicit admission that there is no nass for its permissibility of Mawlid neither from Quran, Sunnah or Ijma'. He also says that just by producing names of scholars who allowed it does not make it permissible especially if there no names from the Sahabah, Tabi'een, Taba Tabi'een or even the four Imams!

salah kazzy
07-02-11, 02:52 PM
Who says we should not celebrate miladun Nabii?

ahaneefah
07-02-11, 02:53 PM
It's amazing how people confuse innovations in life and innovations in the Deen!