To OutSider : Getting Merry

[Lala]

I haven't been here for a while, so I missed your post about "Merry Faced Muslims" that you posted after seeing clips of the Rio Carnival on TV.

I know two kinds of Muslims, Turkish Muslims and Arab Muslims. I've spent a lot of time around the Arab ones, and they
*paa-tay!*

I play darbouka (arab percussion) & when I was in the south of france I had occaision to play with a morrocan guitarist. We set up in a pedestrian zone and homeboys & girls (I mean the North African expats in france) just came out of the woodwork. It was an (almost) all-night party in the street (where do you think the Latins got that party-in-the-street thing from, anyway?) There were lots of guys, plenty of girls, plenty of tourists all dancing & having a GREAT time. We did it for 3 days in a row, then the guitarist had to go back home to make his girl happy.

When I go to the Lebanese night here there are arabs from all over the arab world, Khaleeji (gulf, saudi, kuwaiti, etc) Leb. Egyptian, North African. The other day a guest singer came out & did some improvising -- the audience reaction was fantastic -- I mean, I couldn't get what he was saying at all -- (I'm learning Arabic) but afer he'd finish a line there would be great throwing of hands in the air, great cheering, (great throwing of money in the air) At one point, while the singer was saying something, a man let out a great shout, ran up to the singer and embraced and kissed him. Don't let anybody tell you these people don't know how to party and have a good time.

(to all those who will say "These are not muslims" -- of course they are ('cept a lot of the lebanese- who are christians) they believe that Mohamed is the Prophet, they fast during ramadan. some drink, some won't. etc Yet they all love to dance, & to get together, and to have a good time. They are muslims, simply, as one freind said to me, they are just "imperfect" muslims.)

ps: I hope everybody will forgive my lazy lazy spelling. "Lazy" is Kasool(a) in morrocan. Ana Kasooooola jiddan!!

[Bilal]

Welcome Lala,
You seems expert in Arab. What you said is true ..............
I saw today interview with Bristish and American group in Syrian tv, they said the problem that the westren people do not know the facts about the life in middle east.

hmmmm
Your arabic seems good also ya kasoola!!
:)

[Outcider]

Lala, those were interesting experiences and observations!

I have almost similar experiences from Turkey and Cyprus. Turkish Muslims are really different, as you said. The Lebanese were running a restaurant in Cyprus and could, in fact, have been Christian.

I do not want to generalize anything, but I have noticed that the behaviour of Saudi businessmen in particular changes, when they come to a foreign country. They sure know how to have a nice time.

[Lala]

Kewl!

I bet in most arabic countries there are places people go to have exactly the same kind of fun -- except maybe saudi arabia -- because they are so strict there. But that's totally an intuitive guess based on limited information.

ps:

HI BILAL!

[EVILution]

Dancing is done by many practising muslims too, but you can only do it within the ppl of your own sex, and it has to be modest.

[Outcider]

Muslim youth noted: "Dancing is done by many practising muslims too, but you can only do it within the ppl of your own sex, and it has to be modest."

This was a very welcome confirmation to another question I had on another thread.

Having once been dragged to a dance floor in an Iranian Nowruz party I wondered why all the dancers seemed to be men or children. I might have thought all Muslims were gay, but fortunately I knew many of these people...

By the way, what role does homosexuality play in Muslim culture? Percentwise I think there should be as many gays among Muslims as among other religions, but do they hide their sexual disposition?

I apologise in advance, if this is a taboo thing.

[EVILution]

Outsider, being gay is totally forbidden in Islam, eeurgh thank God for that I think it's disgusting.
Just cos muslims from the same sex dance with each other it doesn't mean anything, but it shows the unity of muslims.

[Outcider]

Muslim youth, thanks for reacting to my question. I must admit that I don't know of any Muslim gays, but don't all the people, like all the animals, have these tendencies? We cannot change our disposition however hard we might believe in whatever we believe.

I have certain reservations of homosexuals, too, although I have twice had to work in a place where my foremen were gays. And not bad at all!

[Bilal]

Outsider,

Nairuz is from the pre-Islam Persian culture. Every Islamic society have its own parties and social life..................... You talk about a world with hundreds of different cultures not about small village in UK country.

[jamila]

One of the most basic ideas in islam is that we are human beings, and we can control our tendencies. We are not animals who are usually, if not exclusively, operating on automatic instinct.

Thus, when we sit, we shouldn't take the monkey pose, being undignified. As I said in another posting, if you are naturally left handed, you learn to use the right hand at least for the principle Islamic habits. If you are homosexual or lesbian, you learn to control your desires and redirect them. When we are irritated or angry, pause and smile - redirect the irritation or anger into positive, rather than negative, action. If you are in a hurry, let your neighbour go first or have first turn. If you notice something humorous about a fellow Muslim, refrain from cracking a joke at her or his expense. If you notice something bad about your neighbor, button your lip and still your tongue, unless you speak to him or her about it personally. And so on.

Islam considers homosexuality and lesbianism so perverted that persistant and open offenders theoretically risk being prosecuted and condemned to the same fate Allah meeted out to Sodom and Gamorah, which were stoned with sulphurous rocks and turned upside down. The only case I have heard of in my stay here, two (mutual) offenders were simply deported.
jamila

jamila

[Lala]

What is the monkey pose? Is that by chance, sitting with one knee up, and one knee down?

[Outcider]

Jamila wrote: "if you are naturally left handed, you learn to use the right hand at least for the principle Islamic habits. If you are homosexual or lesbian, you learn to control your desires and redirect them."

I'd like to agree with you, but it is very difficult. For instance, take this left-handedness.

Some half a century ago teachers tried to change schoolchildren's writing habits, if they noticed that they were left-handed. Today that practice is considered totally outfashioned. (Not in Saudi Arabia?) There is no reason why a person should be forced to write with his or her right hand instead of left.

In London there is even a shop for left-handed people!

I am afraid I still live in ancient times, because I sometimes think that sexual inclinations could be changed as well. Jamila, have you asked any homosexual or lesbian whether he or she would be happier, if allowed to live according to real wishes?

[jamila]

I'm sure they may. But you miss the point.

We are human. We can learn. Practice can change habits. We are given a pattern and example to live by. If we can control and retrain ourselves to conform to that good example, there is a reward.

I know several lefthanded Muslims. They still write with their left hand because they can exert more control. But they sign with their right hand.

I am right handed. But there are several studies that indicate left handed people tend to be more mathematical and artistic, more able to concentrate and more dextrous. Their application often makes them appear more intelligent, too - and they are more adaptable.

So I wanted to see if I had any ambidextrous tendencies, in the hope that I may be a little like them. I can now write with my left hand, cut meat with my left hand, iron with my left hand and so on. I am less dextrous and very slow when I push myself to do it, but some benefits have accrued. I can read upside down and write upside down. I can even write from right to left in mirror writing.

This is to show what is possible for people who try hard.

There is also ahadith (plural of hadith) which indicate that character and behaviour can be acquired by conscious application in the doing of good deeds. Any innate character traits can be modified or overcome so that we can emulate the best of muslim charachter traits.

So whether or not people can be bothered to try and change their ways is up to them. If you are human, you are able. If you are animal, then by all means follow the instinctual course, and pander to tendencies that are forbidden (I'm talking about homosexuality - an abnormal tendency, not left handedness).

Jamila

[Outcider]

Jamila, I agree with most of what you say. But still I'm of the opinion that in today's world there is no need to change a person's lefthandedness. Aren't there even studies that prove that trying to force a left-handed person to write with his or her right hand is detrimental? I cannot prove this claim, but I clearly remember having heard it.

I am quite dextrous with my left hand for instance in tennis, although I am right-handed. If I, my wife or my children were left-handed, no way should I try to change them.

I've also witnessed a few sad cases where a lesbian or a gay first tried to live accorcing to her or his physical appearance. Fortunately, people are becoming more tolerant in Europe and don't always even pay attention to their sexual behaviour.

It goes without saying that in many other ways these persons are even more skilled than "normal" people.

[jamila]

I don't think there is anything wrong with being left handed. But there is great good in doing things from the right. We eat with our right hand. Now, if you have tried eating with your fork in your RIGHT hand and your knife in your LEFT, I am sure you found it most awkward. I did, and still do. A left handed person naturally eats the right way round, a right handed person doesn't.

Being left handed doesn't stop you from starting from the right side and goind to the left (shaking hands, washing onself, washing or dressing your children, putting on your right shoe first, leading of with your right foot, etc.)

As for same sex orientation in sexuality. Allah has forbidden it. Those so afflicted are supposed to be culled from society if they cannot overcome their 'unnatural' tendencies.

jamila

PS. If homosexuality is ok with you, what about piadophilia (sexual orientation on children). If you agree the latter is unnatural and forbidden, why not the former?

[Outcider]

Jamila, most Europeans eat with their left hand all the time!

I noticed this difference a long time ago in the States, where people ate differently. In Europe we keep the fork in the left hand and the knife in the right one. Quite handy!

As for your pedophilia question, I think it's quite another thing if we speak about two consenting adults and a child who cannot yet decide or know what he or she wants.

[jamila]

Originally posted by Outsider
Jamila, most Europeans eat with their left hand all the time!

I noticed this difference a long time ago in the States, where people ate differently. In Europe we keep the fork in the left hand and the knife in the right one. Quite handy!

As for your pedophilia question, I think it's quite another thing if we speak about two consenting adults and a child who cannot yet decide or know what he or she wants.

"Knife in your left hand and fork in your right".

Inshallah, I'll edit the original, too. Just so I don't send anyone else astray.:D
jamila;)