Do you find smart/sucessful women intimidating?

[Miss-Neurofen]

I would be very interested in what guys have to say regarding this, but would also like to see what our sisters have to say too!!

I was having a conversation with a friend of mine regarding this (she is a medic student) and she was talking about how some of her un married friends are finding it difficult to find husbands, cos when they hear the girls going to be a doctor, they back off. And i sort of know where she is coming from, as i know some guys from my uni days too, who despite having gone to uni themselves etc (naturally you would expect them to have a much more open mind towards something like this), say that they would not marry someone who is more qualified or earns more than they do....

[shariff2]

I would be very interested in what guys have to say regarding this, but would also like to see what our sisters have to say too!!

I was having a conversation with a friend of mine regarding this (she is a medic student) and she was talking about how some of her un married friends are finding it difficult to find husbands, cos when they hear the girls going to be a doctor, they back off. And i sort of know where she is coming from, as i know some guys from my uni days too, who despite having gone to uni themselves etc (naturally you would expect them to have a much more open mind towards something like this), say that they would not marry someone who is more qualified or earns more than they do....
Here are some thoughts that quickly come to mind on the subject:

Men are meant to be the sole breadwinner in the family. It is a matter of pride for the man to perform this function. If his wife is earning more/better qualified than him, then there are several issues that can affect him:
- he is no longer the main earner in the household
- he may fear that his wife will one day feel that she is better than him, not just in earning power but also in other aspects of family life (kids, house choice, etc.)
- he feels that he may not be able to have the final decision in family matters - given that she is better qualified, she may outwit him in discussions/arguments in private and in public (amongst other relatives) - this is something that would damage him irreparably
- relatives will talk - 'did you know that she earns more than him' ,'she could have done better, why did she settle for him?', 'she is more intelligent than him' etc. - he will get to hear this and be crushed, be the laughing stock of others
- he may feel inferior to his wife, never something good for any marriage
- he may be afraid of being ridiculed in public by her

On a more practical note:
- if she too has a career and is better qualified, then how is she supposed to look after the family, he may not like the idea of nurseries, nannies, etc.
- if she has spent many years studying to get a high qualification, eg. medic spend over 10 years, then what is her outlook on family? Do she really value family life? Will she be a good mother? Will she really look after children or just be engrossed in her own pursuits?
-Does she really want to sacrifice her career for a family or is she just looking for a husband to 'complete the picture'

[shariff2]

Two more thoughts I had:
-Career takes different paths over time, how will her decisions affect the family? (More travelling, longer hours)
-If she is so good, gets promoted, TAKES promotion, then the gulf between her earnings and his gets even bigger? How will he feel then?

[Ebony]

Men who feel intimidated by women have issues of their own to resolve.

[Chained_Water]

Men who feel intimidated by women have issues of their own to resolve.
Most men have issues to resolve then? :D

[Ebony]

Yah :p

[shariff2]

Most men have issues to resolve then? :D

Most men as you put, may have grown up with mothers who are at home, does not work, or has a part-time job.
So it is only natural for them to be 'intimidated' as you put it, by the prospect of having a wife who works, is better qualified and earns more than themselves.
It is not really that they have issues as such. It is more to do with their upbringing. Not all their fault.

Aside from this, men, good ones, will tend consult their parents on these matters. You will find most parents would prefer a daughter-in-law who does not work, or if she does, is not qualified more than their son.

[Love&Peace]

Men who feel intimidated by women have issues of their own to resolve.

:up:

[.: Anna :.]

things like the sisters who are a doctor, its not necessarily because they are intimidated but sometimes for practical reasons. like i do know of some brothers who have had second thoughts about some because they do want to work as a doctor. not because they feel insecure about that, but more like they are not too keen about the long hours of that job. because the husband would also be working, since that is his duty. if wife's hours as very long like his then what about children when they are born, if she doesn't want to give up the job at that point then who will look after them? and things like looking after house, cooking, even that the husband and wife wont be able to spend much time together because both are working such long hours. Sometimes those hours are even quite antisocial like nightshifts etc. I do understand if a bro feels like that, it doesn't have to mean there is something wrong with their character and they are intimidated

[Umm_Hanzalah]

If the women are too smart..then maybe we need smarter men....

(by the way I don't mean to say it's ok for women to pursue a career or whatever as a priority above family and the needs of a family).

[Milly]

a real smart girl, would not make it apparent that she is better paid/ more qualified than her husband, even if it is obvious.
if her job is well paid, she could work part time and it would not be so obvious that she is on a better basic salary.
it will only become apparent, if YOU make it apparent and YOU make it an issue or make a fuss over it and make him feel small/ inferior - so u see it is upto the individual what they make of this.

and anyhow, i think sisters who are working fulltime and especially those who have children, seriously need to re-think about where their priorities lie so this problem should rarely come up.

also, should we not marry for those four things (deen, beauty, lineage and status) so Allah swt, the most glorious has already thought about this and said seek someone who is your equal (kuff, hence again, should not be a problem inshAllah.

[Eemaan]

in maaa humble hexperienhence i find

- blokes dont mind you earning more than them, it makes then :D cos they figure they dont have to work as hard. there are alot of gold diggers out there :(

- high earners marry high earners unless theres a pre nup involved.

- few and far between are folk who dont look at status and wealth when marrying.

[Medievalist]

I dont think its about being intimidated, perhaps they worry that such women are opinionated and rebellious.

[Danniella]

I dont think its about being intimidated, perhaps they worry that such women are opinionated and rebellious.

Ahh, Brother...when men resort to such name callings ie opinionated and rebellious it is because they are intimated.

These men have no other way to vent their intimidation towards successful/smart women other than to tarnish a their characters.

[Neurostyler]

Ahh, Brother...when men resort to such name callings ie opinionated and rebellious it is because they are intimated.

These men have no other way to vent their intimidation towards successful/smart women other than to tarnish a their characters.

I see you too are an opinionated woman!

[Medievalist]

Not really. A man wants a wife who is obedient and humble. We have enough headache in the worklpace, who wants another headache at home??

[Danniella]

What does that have to do with being smart/successful?!?

[Danniella]

I see you too are an opinionated woman!

i see that you too are intimidated!

[Love&Peace]

Not really. A man wants a wife who is obedient and humble. We have enough headache in the worklpace, who wants another headache at home??

Does it mean smart women will definitely not be humble?
Even if wifey is not working, an intelligent wife will defnitely have her own opinions when it will come to making important decisions. This may lead to differences and argues to begin with but save from headaches in the end.

[-Shamil-]

i wouldnt want a wifey whose life revolves around work ( like a doctors hours)

her life should revolve around me. ME i tells ya!
I should be the centre of attention, she should be at my beck and call, she should base her life around what i do...and so on :D

[bint]

i think we are still lucky that there are men out there who do not find it intimidating. dont lose hope.

[Medievalist]

Does it mean smart women will definitely not be humble?
Even if wifey is not working, an intelligent wife will defnitely have her own opinions when it will come to making important decisions. This may lead to differences and argues to begin with but save from headaches in the end.

no. Its got nothing to do with intelligence. Its to do with university educated women in general. They are encouraged to question everything and have their own opinions; opinionated.

Its not about the intelligence of a woman, its about women who go through a certain education system coming out rebellious and full of themselves. :)

Btw the same applies to men. My mates who are uni students and aren't that practicing have some sort of superiority complex with their parents and the Ulama. They think because they the cream of the British education system, that they are somehow intelligent in religion and in regards to wisdom when they aren't. But as we talking about women here, the comments are on women.

[MMS]

i'm quite intimidating apparently :scratch: but i'm not smart or successful :nuts: just a lil bit of a feminazi :embar:

[sis_niqabi]

I dont think its about being intimidated, perhaps they worry that such women are opinionated and rebellious.

no. Its got nothing to do with intelligence. Its to do with university educated women in general. They are encouraged to question everything and have their own opinions; opinionated.

Its not about the intelligence of a woman, its about women who go through a certain education system coming out rebellious and full of themselves. :)

this is a common misconception that i find many men in arab/asian cultures have about university educated women. just because a woman has a degree doesn't mean she'll be sinful and rebel against her husband. it has something to do with how strong the sisters imaan is. not about how much uni education she has. there are tons of sisters out there who have no university education and they are disobedient to their husbands and don't care about their family.

no offense but your statements sounds really backwards. you shouldn't put educated women down like that.

[bint]

this is a common misconception that i find many men in arab/asian cultures have about university educated women. just because a woman has a degree doesn't mean she'll be sinful and rebel against her husband. it has something to do with how strong the sisters imaan is. not about how much uni education she has. there are tons of sisters out there who have no university education and they are disobedient to their husbands and don't care about their family.

no offense but your statements sounds really backwards. you shouldn't put educated women down like that.

we could just say men are quiet intimidating and full of themselves as soon as they land a degree and a top notch job.

also women educate themselves cos theres a need, naudhubillah if for some reason the husband cannot provide for his family any more, she can go out and earn. its common sense. in a world like this you need to fend for yourself, you need to learn to stand on your own two feet.

[Guvna]

we could just say men are quiet intimidating and full of themselves as soon as they land a degree and a top notch job.

also women educate themselves cos theres a need, naudhubillah if for some reason the husband cannot provide for his family any more, she can go out and earn. its common sense. in a world like this you need to fend for yourself, you need to learn to stand on your own two feet.

ahhhh the feminazis are out!!! some get em.. !!

they should all be locked up to the sink and enough chain to get to the gas cooker!!! Period!! :torture:

[bint]

guvna tell me u agree with me. :rolleyes:

i am no feminist.

[Guvna]

guvna tell me u agree with me. :rolleyes:

i am no feminist.

How can i agree with you?! 99% of the women in uni ARE full of themselves.. most of em flaunting there thang.. and then makin out as if they some shareef blumin kuri!!!
respect to the straight up hijabified sis' who adhere to islamic teachings and haya and respect.. who go into respectable professions adhereing the laws... which prolly constitute 1%.. but most of em.. get bit of education.. and think they have the right to rule the world.. know your place... it;s the home and then everything! :rolleyes:

[muhammed_1428]

Nope.

Unless she is a professional wrestler who will threaten me with a DDT if i got rude!

And P.S. for the brothers and sisters, we seriously need to beware of reyah, its a form of hidden shirk, the moment you let out even a slight sense of arrogance and forget your humility then make tawbah and ask Allah SWT to increase the dhikr in your heart (not that I'm saying that telling someone your degree or grade is showing off, its just you get people who go over the top and its like "ok I get what you're sayin").

[bint]

How can i agree with you?! 99% of the women in uni ARE full of themselves.. most of em flaunting there thang.. and then makin out as if they some shareef blumin kuri!!!
respect to the straight up hijabified sis' who adhere to islamic teachings and haya and respect.. who go into respectable professions adhereing the laws... which prolly constitute 1%.. but most of em.. get bit of education.. and think they have the right to rule the world.. know your place... it;s the home and then everything! :rolleyes:
scuse me ure chattin about uni here. i totally disagree with you anyways. should have realised you would have a biased opinion.

[Joha]

no. Its got nothing to do with intelligence. Its to do with university educated women in general. They are encouraged to question everything and have their own opinions; opinionated.
.

And that's a bloody good thing. Having your own opinions, and being able to defend them. If you can't do that, you're just an empty shell of a human being. If everything you do and say is at the behest of another common human.

[muhammed_1428]

people in university, men or women, or not 'encouraged to question everything', and whats wrong with having an opinion? "the book shelf looks better there" is an opinion lol.

Unless they were members of the debating society (man you get some super zionists there) then there shouldn't be too much worry of them having too much of an opinion.

In fact wouldn't it encourage them to develop the opinion that they should respect and serve your opinions? Like I've mentioned before, intelligence isn't measured by qualifications, and I'll admit it can eb very dangerous when you have too much 'rational reasoning' for your actions and not even textual reasoning (e.g. im wearing baggy trousers so I don't need a head scarf. Or, akhi where does it say we're not allowed to smoke cigarettes?, etc etc).

Nothing wrong with a Muslim woman having a degree and a career. Nothing wrong with her not having it either, so long as in either case she is doing what she is doing for a benefit to her imaan and for the sake of Allah SWT.

[Danniella]

I dont understand why some men here are afraid of women who have opinions or question things in life?!?!?

Is it a sin to have opinions?
Is it morallay unacceptable to question things in life?

Methinks such men are afraid of opinionated women because these women question unIslamic things in asian/arab culture which have been practised on par with religion by men !

[Joha]

I dont understand why some men here are afraid of women who have opinions or question things in life?!?!?

Is it a sin to have opinions?
Is it morallay unacceptable to question things in life?


They're known as ignorant control freaks. Listening to them, I understand why slavery has managed to exist for so long...

I don't see why some of them don't just hire submissive cleaners and cooks (that seems to be all they're looking for).

I'm afraid of anyone who doesn't have an opinion - I'm afraid they won't question me or stop me when I'm about to do something stupid.

[Supernova Nebula]

:1popcorn:

[Pippin1376]

a real smart girl, would not make it apparent that she is better paid/ more qualified than her husband, even if it is obvious.
if her job is well paid, she could work part time and it would not be so obvious that she is on a better basic salary.
it will only become apparent, if YOU make it apparent and YOU make it an issue or make a fuss over it and make him feel small/ inferior - so u see it is upto the individual what they make of this.

Shouldn't matter to begin with, the man would still be paying for everything. Also look at the Prophet (SAW), he started working for a very rich women and married her. He didn't feel intimidated by her wealth, how successful she was, how smart she was. He loved her and got hitched with her. And look at her now. Khadija is one of the four best women ever.

blokes dont mind you earning more than them, it makes then :D cos they figure they dont have to work as hard. there are alot of gold diggers out there :(

But they'd still have to pay for everything. They can't just expect you to give them money all the time. Sure, it's nice, but ultimately Allah gave women the right to their wealth and land.

[Pippin1376]

no. Its got nothing to do with intelligence. Its to do with university educated women in general. They are encouraged to question everything and have their own opinions; opinionated.

I just wanted to add that Aisha would question the Prophet (SAW) and thanks to that we know a lot more about the Sunnah.

[Kal-El]

No, very much the opposite :o

[Al-Farooq]

No, I don't find smart and/or successful women intimidating, quite the opposite in fact alhamdulillah. Apart from knowledge of the deen and the implementation of that knowledge into daily life, there is no quality more attractive in a woman than intellectual depth and discernment, sound judgement based upon insight (and experience), the ability to understand and empathise with other points of view and empathy itself.

Personally, I find those equalities highly inspiring and timelessly endearing and could never realistically consider a woman who lacks those qualities, a potential suitor. She will, after all, be the main source of education for our children, during their crucial early years of mental development.

Besides, I am extremely dubious that a relationship can ever achieve longevity (while remaining a positive experience :p) based primarily upon physical attraction, without a degree of intellectual stimulation and engagement.

Alhamdulillah my wife is extremely smart and successful and I will do all I can to ensure that continues....rather than bludgeon her intellect into submission with my macho insecurities. :p

[Zesty]

:hidban: yaayy Excellent post brother Al Farooq (and Joha) :D
Thank God there are some people with half a brain here! ;)

[Love&Peace]

No, I don't find smart and/or successful women intimidating, quite the opposite in fact alhamdulillah. Apart from knowledge of the deen and the implementation of that knowledge into daily life, there is no quality more attractive in a woman than intellectual depth and discernment, sound judgement based upon insight (and experience), the ability to understand and empathise with other points of view and empathy itself.

Personally, I find those equalities highly inspiring and timelessly endearing and could never realistically consider a woman who lacks those qualities, a potential suitor. She will, after all, be the main source of education for our children, during their crucial early years of mental development.

Besides, I am extremely dubious that a relationship can ever achieve longevity (while remaining a positive experience :p) based primarily upon physical attraction, without a degree of intellectual stimulation and engagement.

Alhamdulillah my wife is extremely smart and successful and I will do all I can to ensure that continues....rather than bludgeon her intellect into submission with my macho insecurities. :p

Very well said Al-Farooq. God bless you marriage with Happiness :inlove:

[bint]

They're known as ignorant control freaks. Listening to them, I understand why slavery has managed to exist for so long...

I don't see why some of them don't just hire submissive cleaners and cooks (that seems to be all they're looking for).

I'm afraid of anyone who doesn't have an opinion - I'm afraid they won't question me or stop me when I'm about to do something stupid.
great post joha:up:

[Medievalist]

:1popcorn:

[in_exile]

if a woman has an education that doesnt make her smart of successful... in the sam way that if a man had an education that doesnt make him smart or succesful.

it is allah (swt) who defines to us what is a sucessful man or woman not kuffar

and just because a woman has an education doesnt mean she can't be submissive... all depends on the man

[OBL]

if a woman has an education that doesnt make her smart of successful... in the sam way that if a man had an education that doesnt make him smart or succesful.

it is allah (swt) who defines to us what is a sucessful man or woman not kuffar

killed it, well said bro :up:

[Medievalist]

Bro in general when people go through this education system its all about disrespect. Disrespect to parents, to teachers, to the elders, to the husband etc.

So I'd disagree - in most cases when a man or woman goes through the education system here - they wreak of disrespect.

[Kubs]

There are two parts to this:

Clever people who talk down to others. They have become so arrogant because of their intelligence....that it's made them really ugly...both inside and out. They are loud....they continously brag on about their intelligence....their status.....they think they know-it-all when in fact they LACK a lot of common sense. It's really off putting. It's one thing to have confidence... but it's another to be arrogant. Furthermore, arrogance is simply unattractive. Humility is a virtue.

Clever people who can actually hold intelligent conversations. These are women who can think for themselves rather than having to obey EVERY SINGLE WORD the man says. These are women who can 'disagree' in a respectable way....and then voice their own opinions. Allah did give women brains also :rolleyes:

It all comes down to how insecure the man is. A man will only be intimidated by a woman, if he is insecure about his own accomplishments and standing in the world. Some men don't want their flaws pointed out, which is exactly what smart and powerful people do. Some men have become control freaks......they expect women to listen and obey.....in other words they want 'trophy wives'. This is just another way to protect their precious egos.

Men feel more masculine when they appear to be 'in control' - there is nothing wrong with this. The man...in my opinion...is the head of the house. He should make the FINAL decisions.....I respect that. This does not mean however that he should ignore his wife's opinions.

There are two people in a marriage....the husband and the wife. Neither should have to feel superior or inferior next to each other. They are equal in the eyes of Allah Subhana wa taalah....but they have been given different roles. The man is the breadwinner....and the woman takes care of the house. This certainly does not mean the woman should have to play dumb to make her husband happy....she should be able to have intelligent conversations with him. She should be able to voice her opinions and disagree when needed.

Secondly being a doctor does not necessarily make you smart. The secret to being a smart woman is how you present yourself and how you use the words you speak with. Yes education does play a part....but it isn't the only factor that defines whether a person is intelligent or not.

If you look at the images on television...nowadays a lot of girls dumb themselves down to appear attractive. Yes men are intimidated by smart women. Why? Because just like bro Medievalist said.....you see a smart woman...and you think....''wow, she looks too difficult to handle....she'll probably rebel alot in the marriage.''

:eek3:

The problem, is that the connotation of 'smart woman', is usually defined as a smug anti-male feminist. Being opinionated....does not mean you are going to disrespect your husband in a marriage. It does not mean you are going to feel arrogant.....and it certainly does not mean you are anti men! LOOOOL :rotfl:

I personally admire anyone who is comfortable with their intelligence, and is able to conduct themselves in a dignified civil manner. Being treated like property.....is not being privileged. Being afraid to voice your opinions in a marriage...is not being liberated. Not being able to discuss things with your husband is not what I call a happy marriage. In my opinion......that is prison.

[Medievalist]

Gud post Kubs. Surprisingly agree with you :rubeyes:

BUT - no1 said anything about me being intimdated. :coolbro:

And its not about being threatened, like I said before - men have to deal with headache outside, then to come home to a headache - just aint nice. :p

[Kubs]

Gud post Kubs. Surprisingly agree with you :rubeyes:

BUT - no1 said anything about me being intimdated. :coolbro:

And its not about being threatened, like I said before - men have to deal with headache outside, then to come home to a headache - just aint nice. :p

*faints* :eek:

lool imagine having 4 wives then! :rotfl: Headache x 4

[Medievalist]

*faints* :eek:

lool imagine having 4 wives then! :rotfl: Headache x 3

dont you mean "Headache x 4 **roll eyes**

And alhamdulillah I aint got that problem. I like my wives to be proper women. lol

[Lord Summerisle]

Wheres Abu M? I just KNOW he has some, erm, interesting views on this issue!

[OBL]

....

[Russo]

a real smart girl, would not make it apparent that she is better paid/ more qualified than her husband, even if it is obvious.
if her job is well paid, she could work part time and it would not be so obvious that she is on a better basic salary.
it will only become apparent, if YOU make it apparent and YOU make it an issue or make a fuss over it and make him feel small/ inferior - so u see it is upto the individual what they make of this.

and anyhow, i think sisters who are working fulltime and especially those who have children, seriously need to re-think about where their priorities lie so this problem should rarely come up.

also, should we not marry for those four things (deen, beauty, lineage and status) so Allah swt, the most glorious has already thought about this and said seek someone who is your equal (kuff, hence again, should not be a problem inshAllah.

Milly

Smart girls dont need to LIE to make their spouses feel good. Guys are just insecure and if a wife needs to make him feel secure in a "crafty" way, then thats real SAD!!!!!

[carol_au]

A woman's intellect is a God given gift to her. How she uses it is her worship to Allah ta'ala. To not use it is to waste what has been given to her as a blessing. If she uses it in a way that does not allow her other responsibilities before Allah and her fellow man then she is abusing it and will answer for it oneday.

An intelligent woman should not be intimidating. The one who is intimidating to her husband is the one who abuses her intelligence and forgets she is first a wife to her husband and a mother to her children and a daughter to her parents. A truly intelligent woman will under the guidance of her husband and the direction of Allah ta'ala balance the gift Allah has given her her worship and submission to Her Lord and the rights she owes her husband and family.

For every family this will be different .. and no one can say how this should work out in a particular family.. that is for the spouses to determine between themsleves.

However we are told to choose our spouses for their deen and their character. A truly intelligent woman (or man) will also have strong deen, Emaan and a character that reflects their love of Allah and desire to worship Him and submit everything.. to Him.

An intelligent man is one who looks not at his wife's intelligence and feels intimadated by it , but at her character and deen and how she uses that God given gift of intelligence in her every day life. He will spend time helping her develop those characteristics and then insha'Allah he will never have to worry about feeling intimidated by her. She will happily and willingly put his needs first insha'Allah .. because the mercy will increase between them .. Allah ta'alas gift to them in their marriage.

[sis_niqabi]

Gud post Kubs. Surprisingly agree with you :rubeyes:

BUT - no1 said anything about me being intimdated. :coolbro:

And its not about being threatened, like I said before - men have to deal with headache outside, then to come home to a headache - just aint nice. :p

but what makes you think a woman who hasn't gone to uni you'll not give their husbands headaches. i know a lot of sisters who have only high school education (i even know some who didn't even finish high school) and they give their husband's headaches.

again i'll say his just because a woman has a degree doesn't automatically mean she'll rebel against her husband. this is a silly notion.

you mines well say not to send girls to elementary school either.

[in_exile]

a woman must listen and obey her husband there are no two ways about it... if her husband says do this or dont do it then she listens... she has the right to voice her opinion and her opinion should be taken into consideration and the final decision lies with her husband.... that is the be all and end all.. its not about insecurity or control freak... the husband is the one who rules that is the right allah (swt) has given to him.

[neelu]

you mines well say not to send girls to elementary school either.


don't tempt fate :o:nervous:

[Jilbabi]

i wouldnt want a wifey whose life revolves around work ( like a doctors hours)

her life should revolve around me. ME i tells ya!
I should be the centre of attention, she should be at my beck and call, she should base her life around what i do...and so on :D

i feel sorry for your wife :rotfl:

[-Shamil-]

i feel sorry for your wife :rotfl:


so do i but thats life :D

[Jilbabi]

lol it sure is!... mmm

jus remember to tel ur wife this b4 you marry her... oh wait she might not marry you then :D

[-Shamil-]

lol it sure is!... mmm

jus remember to tel ur wife this b4 you marry her... oh wait she might not marry you then :D

im gonna make her life 10 x more interesting - of course she'll wanna marry me!

is that too much to ask in a wife? to have her at your beck and call, day and night for the rest of her life? i think its quite reasonable

[Flipo]

I don't think the problem here is the opinions, since by nature we are opiniated people. The problem is that there are a lot more rebellious women out there. I am saying this through experience, I have turned down women because they come across as the type that want certain things their way and don't show any consideration for the other side. This is a phenomena which has really kicked off recently. The question that needs to be asked is what is causing this? I think it is partially the education system and the enviroment/media. We are living in the Dajaalic era and the prophet (saaws) warned us that in this period something will happen to the women to the extent that a man will have to tie his wife/daughter etc up before leaving the house. I think we are witnessing this now (in varying degrees). Some have gone to the extreme (feminism), others are inbetween, others have been subtly effected and very few have been unaffected. This is a trial for the sisters and only they can change it. If they pass then Jannahtu naa'em, if they fail then jahaanamu wa bi'sal masir.

I have noticed how some sisters have an obsession with wanting to work, go out and have fun. This is very unhealthy. Although there is nothing wrong with going out from time to time, the ones I come across are taking it to new levels. It shows they are lacking spirituality (no offence intended) but we are not dunyawi people.

The number one reason for divorce in the uk is because of extra martial affairs (according to BBC). From where? The workplace. One of my favourite shaykh's once said that in the workplace there are two types of men, the first when they see a woman they lower their gaze and fear Allah, and the second, when they see a woman they turn into sharks. Most men turn into sharks, why else do you think the divorce rate is so high. This is one major reason why I don't want my wife to work.

Right down the lizards hole, but the worst thing is we don't even see it. Our external eyes are fine but our spiritual eyes are blind.

[shariff2]

I would be very interested in what guys have to say regarding this, but would also like to see what our sisters have to say too!!

I was having a conversation with a friend of mine regarding this (she is a medic student) and she was talking about how some of her un married friends are finding it difficult to find husbands, cos when they hear the girls going to be a doctor, they back off. And i sort of know where she is coming from, as i know some guys from my uni days too, who despite having gone to uni themselves etc (naturally you would expect them to have a much more open mind towards something like this), say that they would not marry someone who is more qualified or earns more than they do....

This is what the sister asked.
Everyone could have given their opinions in a respectful way without having to criticise other's opinions.
It is very sad to see how this thread degenerated.
Please remember what information was requested and answer responsibly and respectfully to each other.
Remember we are meant to be brothers and sisters,aren't we?
If we have a difference of opinion we are allowed to voice it in a civilised way, without fear of anyone. Even if we strongly disagree, there is a nice way to disagree. At the very least we can agree to disagree.
At the best, we can try to understand other's perspectives/reasons for having certain opinions.
We can all learn from each other Insha Allah.

Peace.

[Pippin1376]

im gonna make her life 10 x more interesting - of course she'll wanna marry me!

is that too much to ask in a wife? to have her at your beck and call, day and night for the rest of her life? i think its quite reasonable

I wish you the best of luck in finding your dream wife Brother.

[Khubaib]

Smart sisters aren't intimidating, their parents are. They expect a lad to be able to earn more than their daughters. So a decent practicing brother without a high power career is seen as not good enough. It's not necessarily bad to look for someone in your socioeconomic class, but their daughters may have other preferences and care less about moola but because of the "gatekeeping" by the parents she may not get what she wants.

[miss-islamic]

He’s joking/being sarcastic. Anyways, people always go on about how women become fitnafied, rebellious, big headed, (ask for their rights) and trample on their spouses ones blah blah blah because of education. …leaving along the fact that it is a generalization, it’s not only women. :torture:

[bint]

if a woman has an education that doesnt make her smart of successful... in the sam way that if a man had an education that doesnt make him smart or succesful.

it is allah (swt) who defines to us what is a sucessful man or woman not kuffar

and just because a woman has an education doesnt mean she can't be submissive... all depends on the man
another intelligent post.

[O2K]

no. it would be welcomed.

[-Shamil-]

I wish you the best of luck in finding your dream wife Brother.

make dua for me :up:

[sis_niqabi]

im gonna make her life 10 x more interesting - of course she'll wanna marry me!

is that too much to ask in a wife? to have her at your beck and call, day and night for the rest of her life? i think its quite reasonable

lol! i guess you not planning to have kids. because when the kids come that is going to be her top priority. so what are you going to do then?

[mgilani]

Awwwwwwwwwwwww..... my reply got deleted!!!!...................

In any case and just to be clear, my remarks were merely a palpable jocular!!!

[Love&Peace]

And its not about being threatened, like I said before - men have to deal with headache outside, then to come home to a headache - just aint nice. :p
Medievalist,
you urself are a student. You obviously don't go to Uni to learn disrespect but to pursue study in some subject. It can be similar for a girl. Actually, I have seen smart girls being respectful to others and not so smart being disrespectful and I have also noticed the quite opposite as well.

While talking about the headaches, Say if a man is taking some important decision like investing in property. Wouldn't it be good for his wife to be smart and give her own opinion that you should consider XYZ area or ABC property? Do you consider this kind of discussions as headaches? Is it not destructive that a man's wife always agree to him without being critical or analytical about decisions? For me it is like a team where half of the resources are not encouraged to give intellecutal contribution to avoid conflicts. I just want to understand, thats it.

[Medievalist]

Medievalist,
you urself are a student. You obviously don't go to Uni to learn disrespect but to pursue study in some subject. It can be similar for a girl. Actually, I have seen smart girls being respectful to others and not so smart being disrespectful and I have also noticed the quite opposite as well.

No I dont go to learn disrespect. But in general thats the effect it has on you. See in our upbringing there are ways to behave, the are ways in our religion to maintain a correct social order. You respect your Teachers and serve them, you respect you books and hold them with honour, you respect your lessons and the subject matter by sitting humbly and calmly, you respect your parents by lowering before them, you respect your husband by obedience. etc. etc. These things are not what the secular education system in any country is about - UK, Pakistan, India wherever. In GENERAL, the education system moulds insular selfish individuals.

While talking about the headaches, Say if a man is taking some important decision like investing in property. Wouldn't it be good for his wife to be smart and give her own opinion that you should consider XYZ area or ABC property? Do you consider this kind of discussions as headaches? Is it not destructive that a man's wife always agree to him without being critical or analytical about decisions? For me it is like a team where half of the resources are not encouraged to give intellecutal contribution to avoid conflicts. I just want to understand, thats it.

She can and should give her opinion on things which she knows about. So in the house, its better for a man to take his wifes opinion and act on it because she knows how to run the home; similarly in regards what the kids need, her opinion is vital cos chances are she knows if Munna's trousers are too small or not - lol.

Similarly if she is holds a Masters in English Literature you can ask her what does this mean, why has the writer written like this, etc. Why? Because she's trained in that, she has the knowledge.

But then in what she doesnt know, its a waste of time asking her. If she doesnt know how to mix cement and how to lay a foundation - there's no point asking her should the foundation be 2 foot deep and or do you think we should go 4 foot? Similarly in money matters - imo there's no point getting the woman involved. If a man wants to then its a free country, but I personally dont bother women with money discussions.

[Ebony]

If you never ask or never involve her on the premise that she's clueless anyway then you never give her the chance to learn.

[Medievalist]

If you never ask or never involve her on the premise that she's clueless anyway then you never give her the chance to learn.

But some things she doesnt need to learn. Money isnt a thing women are meant to worry about. And if you talking about the cement example - then again, women dont need to do know these things. She should know her affairs, he should know his. Im perfectly happy not knowing how to make any food cept a fry up, and Im pretty sure that most women aren't that concerned about foundations or wallpapering or changing a fuse **roll eyes**

[Guvna]

But some things she doesnt need to learn. Money isnt a thing women are meant to worry about. And if you talking about the cement example - then again, women dont need to do know these things. She should know her affairs, he should know his. Im perfectly happy not knowing how to make any food cept a fry up, and Im pretty sure that most women aren't that concerned about foundations or wallpapering or changing a fuse **roll eyes**

DITTO! :up:

[Ebony]

Not everything is about need or worry. Sometimes you just want to know and remain informed even if you never take a hands on approach with the issue in your life. At least you know of it should they ever have to deal with it (e.g. with money, say you pop your clogs tmrw or whenever, she won't know what to do with it as she's never been involved - better you are able to take on responsibilities than lump them onto someone else) Its about involvement, even if its partial and obviously if the othr person wants to be involved. Assumptions in this respect should be avoided.

Asking someone "you want to know/learn about xyz?" isn't streneous, although any effort thereafter may be and thats what it boils down to - cant be botherd making the effort to involve someone or be involved because its deemed unnecessary.

With such an attitude, i ideally shouldnt know how to check the oil in the car, how to apply wallpaper, or change a tyre, or how to paint walls, change a fuse, a bulb and other things that are meant to be for "men only". :rolleyes:

[Medievalist]

Ebony: People aint learning the necessary and wanna go and learn the unnecessary?? If I kick the bucket soon, Im sure my family aint gonna kick her out **roll eyes**

[Russo]

But some things she doesnt need to learn. Money isnt a thing women are meant to worry about. And if you talking about the cement example - then again, women dont need to do know these things. She should know her affairs, he should know his. Im perfectly happy not knowing how to make any food cept a fry up, and Im pretty sure that most women aren't that concerned about foundations or wallpapering or changing a fuse **roll eyes**

Medievalist

With respect,

(1) Alot of women actually have quite a bit of knowledge about money!
(2) You should, if your wife doesnt know, how to deal with day to day life, e.g paying bils; money and general diy; how to talk to ppl outside of the home. Reason? Because when you snuff it one day she will be on her own and will have to deal with it. Better she knows how to when you are alive then having to cope with learning all of that when you are gone!
(3) I find opinions like yours (like alot of men) quite irritating! Its bcos of these opinions that alot of women dont wish to marry or find it difficult to find a spouse.

Btw, a woman having an opinion does not make us rebellious or bossy.

[Ebony]

Ebony: People aint learning the necessary and wanna go and learn the unnecessary?? If I kick the bucket soon, Im sure my family aint gonna kick her out **roll eyes**

Thats your subjective view of whats necessary and whats unnecessary. Managing your own finances is not linked to living on your own and has nothing to do with being kicked out the home.its about being informed. Then again some people prefer their women stay clueless and naive, God forbid she might question and ask for accountability from the menfolk on some things :rolleyes:

[Medievalist]

Medievalist

With respect,

(1) Alot of women actually have quite a bit of knowledge about money!
(2) You should, if your wife doesnt know, how to deal with day to day life, e.g paying bils; money and general diy; how to talk to ppl outside of the home. Reason? Because when you snuff it one day she will be on her own and will have to deal with it. Better she knows how to when you are alive then having to cope with learning all of that when you are gone!
(3) I find opinions like yours (like alot of men) quite irritating! Its bcos of these opinions that alot of women dont wish to marry or find it difficult to find a spouse.

Btw, a woman having an opinion does not make us rebellious or bossy.

Russo

With respect,

1. I dont doubt that women have knowledge about money. Im just saying that in my lifestyle its unnecessary.
2. My wife doesnt need to know these things. If I die, then my father or her father, or her brother or her uncles will look after her. And if I die when my son is grown, then he'll look after her. The womans place is at home and its her male relatives responsibilty to care for her needs. She doesnt need to know how to speak to people outside the home, what kind of thing is that to say for a purdah-nasheen woman?
3. You're entitled to your opinion. Men who like women like yourself will marry women like yourself and men who dont wont - so dont worry to much about it. :)

No - having an opinion doesnt mean being bossy or rebellious, being opinionated and voicing your personal opinion when things aren't even understood by you (not referinng to you YOU but generally) thats rebellious and ignorant.

[Medievalist]

Thats your subjective view of whats necessary and whats unnecessary. Managing your own finances is not linked to living on your own and has nothing to do with being kicked out the home.its about being informed. Then again some people prefer their women stay clueless and naive, God forbid she might question and ask for accountability from the menfolk on some things :rolleyes:

On the contrary - its entirely objective. Women should know about their affair and men should know about theirs. When women started coming out of the home and acting like men - things went real bad. As an example - a woman doesnt need to know how to run a country, the feminazi deviant brigade will say she should know, but why? Its none of her concern.

Concern yourself with things that are necessary. simple. When the woman is created for the home she should be a mistress of those arts particular to the home - cooking, baking, sewing, cleaning, child-bearing etc. She should perfect herself in the arts necessary for herself, not spend time dreaming of being a man.

Yes - basics she should know. For example if she has money, she should know I have this money and its mine and this is where I keep it - bank or box under bed or whatever. Because that money is HERS and its HER concern.

But she doesnt need to know about his money, just as he doesnt need to know about hers.

Can you please give an example of what kinda things she needs to hold a man accountable for??

[Ebony]

What I said went right over your head :rolleyes: as most things tend to do anywho

[Danniella]

On the contrary - its entirely objective. Women should know about their affair and men should know about theirs. When women started coming out of the home and acting like men - things went real bad. As an example - a woman doesnt need to know how to run a country, the feminazi deviant brigade will say she should know, but why? Its none of her concern.

Concern yourself with things that are necessary. simple. When the woman is created for the home she should be a mistress of those arts particular to the home - cooking, baking, sewing, cleaning, child-bearing etc. She should perfect herself in the arts necessary for herself, not spend time dreaming of being a man.

Yes - basics she should know. For example if she has money, she should know I have this money and its mine and this is where I keep it - bak or box under bed or whatever. Because that money is HERS and its HER concern.

But she doesnt need to know about his money, just as he doesnt need to know about hers.

Can you please give an example of what kinda things she needs to hold a man accountable for??

Brother,

Where is it in Islam that women were created for the 'home'?
Where is it in Islam that women shouldn't know about 'wordly' affairs?

When brothers stop making these unIslamic rulings, then there will be a lot more peace and harmony about little petty issues in Muslim families/households.


Remember P. Muhammed (SAW) wives, Khadijah and Aisha?
Khadijah was a fantastic business woman - are you calling her a feminazi? :rubeyes:

Aisha was a great lecturer and advisor - i dare ask what you consider her! :rubeyes:

[vermeersch]

On the contrary - its entirely objective. Women should know about their affair and men should know about theirs. When women started coming out of the home and acting like men - things went real bad. As an example - a woman doesnt need to know how to run a country, the feminazi deviant brigade will say she should know, but why? Its none of her concern.

Concern yourself with things that are necessary. simple. When the woman is created for the home she should be a mistress of those arts particular to the home - cooking, baking, sewing, cleaning, child-bearing etc. She should perfect herself in the arts necessary for herself, not spend time dreaming of being a man.

Yes - basics she should know. For example if she has money, she should know I have this money and its mine and this is where I keep it - bak or box under bed or whatever. Because that money is HERS and its HER concern.

But she doesnt need to know about his money, just as he doesnt need to know about hers.

Can you please give an example of what kinda things she needs to hold a man accountable for??reading such things one would think we're caught in a time warp.

I disagree so deeply that it's not even worth to start a discussion.

[Danniella]

Every woman should know about her husband finances.

1) a woman should know where and how money is being used - she runs the household, therefore she must be paying the bills etc. How is she to do this if she doesnt have a 'balance sheet' to work with?!?

2) a woman should be prepared for surprising events - in the event of husband dying (whether war, illness, divorce, natural death, etc) the women should be prepared and be able to take over such financial burden immediately.

3) What the husband earns is effectively the womans earnings too. When married, both husband and wife co-owns everything...however, the woman is far more fortunate than the man as she is not obliged to share everything of hers (namely money). Thats the beauty of Islam for women.

[Medievalist]

Brother,

Where is it in Islam that women were created for the 'home'?
Where is it in Islam that women shouldn't know about 'wordly' affairs?

When brothers stop making these unIslamic rulings, then there will be a lot more peace and harmony about little petty issues in Muslim families/households.


Remember P. Muhammed (SAW) wives, Khadijah and Aisha?
Khadijah was a fantastic business woman - are you calling her a feminazi? :rubeyes:

Aisha was a great lecturer and advisor - i dare ask what you consider her! :rubeyes:


Sayyidatuna Ummul Mu;mineen Khadijah radhiyallahu anha died before the verses of hijab were revealed. So invalid example.

Sayyidatuna Ummul Mu'mineen Aisha radhiyallahu anha was the perfect woman. Its funnay that women try and paint themselves as emulators of the Noble Mothers, when in reality the Noble Mothers lived lives completely different to what most women today follow.

Whens its convenient for todays women then she seeks inspiration and justification from the actions of the Noble Mothers - and the rest of the time they are quietly ignored.

So - sounds a bit hypocritical to me. :)

[Ebony]

:eek: Medi keeps his money in a box under the bed :idea:

Not something to share with the world me thinks....

[Danniella]

Sayyidatuna Ummul Mu;mineen Khadijah radhiyallahu anha died before the verses of hijab were revealed. So invalid example.

Sayyidatuna Ummul Mu'mineen Aisha radhiyallahu anha was the perfect woman. Its funnay that women try and paint themselves as emulators of the Noble Mothers, when in reality the Noble Mothers lived lives completely different to what most women today follow.

Whens its convenient for todays women then she seeks inspiration and justification from the actions of the Noble Mothers - and the rest of the time they are quietly ignored.

So - sounds a bit hypocritical to me. :)


Just like Muslim men who try to emulate P Muhammed (saw) when rest of the time they are no better. Equally, hypocritical to me!

Your point is completely irrelevant and kindly stick to the point.

[Medievalist]

Every woman should know about her husband finances.

1) a woman should know where and how money is being used - she runs the household, therefore she must be paying the bills etc. How is she to do this if she doesnt have a 'balance sheet' to work with?!?

2) a woman should be prepared for surprising events - in the event of husband dying (whether war, illness, divorce, natural death, etc) the women should be prepared and be able to take over such financial burden immediately.

3) What the husband earns is effectively the womans earnings too. When married, both husband and wife co-owns everything...however, the woman is far more fortunate than the man as she is not obliged to share everything of hers (namely money). Thats the beauty of Islam for women.

Kafir ideology in play here.

What the husband earns is his money, yes he has to spend sufficiently on his family, but in no way does the money the husband earns suddenly become half his wifes. Which alim told you this? Or are you talking about the british law where husbands earnings are half to the wife?

Even the furniture in the house - belongs to one person unless otherwise stated. When the person dies all his belongings come into his meerath.

And the woman controlling her husbands monies in case of death? In case of death the husbands bank balance and the rest of his wealth is to be divided between his inheritors - if the wife assumes control of his house and his artefacts then she has eaten the right of the other heirs and is guilty and liable to punishment in the hereafter.

[Medievalist]

Just like Muslim men who try to emulate P Muhammed (saw) when rest of the time they are no better. Equally, hypocritical to me!

Your point is completely irrelevant and kindly stick to the point.

COMPLETELY agree with you. We should follow Islam in totality.

But the point is entirely relevant. If a woman today tries to claim that her behaviour is inline with the actions of the Noble Mothers, then she has lied about herself and has indirectly made a false allegation on the Noble Mothers.

[Danniella]

Sayyidatuna Ummul Mu;mineen Khadijah radhiyallahu anha died before the verses of hijab were revealed. So invalid example.

Sayyidatuna Ummul Mu'mineen Aisha radhiyallahu anha was the perfect woman. Its funnay that women try and paint themselves as emulators of the Noble Mothers, when in reality the Noble Mothers lived lives completely different to what most women today follow.

Whens its convenient for todays women then she seeks inspiration and justification from the actions of the Noble Mothers - and the rest of the time they are quietly ignored.

So - sounds a bit hypocritical to me. :)

It amazes me how some brothers resort to this comment when they seek justification for their failing perception of issues.

[Danniella]

COMPLETELY agree with you. We should follow Islam in totality.

But the point is entirely relevant. If a woman today tries to claim that her behaviour is inline with the actions of the Noble Mothers, then she has lied about herself and has indirectly made a false allegation on the Noble Mothers.

Men and women dont claim to be on par with P. Muhammed or our Noble mothers.

We aspire to their greatness.

This is what you have to accept when muslim women seek aspiration from our Great Mothers. No ordinary woman is perfect - but when we try to emulate our Great foremothers, we should not be demeaned, villified or heckled for trying but rather encouraged, respected and supported.

For you to do exactly the former, not only disrespects Muslim women but our Great Mothers too for having laid down a wonderful example to follow.

[Medievalist]

Daniella - I dont want to stoop to a slanging match.

But the point is relevant. Ummul Mu;mineen Aisha radhiyallahu anha was of the opinion that women should be banned from the masaajid. What do you have to say about that?

Ummul Mu;mineen Aisha radhiyallahu anha would veil from all strange men. What do you have to say about that?

Ummul Mu;mineen Aisha radhiyallahu anha would veil from Sayyidayn Hasnayn radhiyallahu anhuma, her own grandsons. What do you have to say about that?

Other Mothers would put cloth infront of their mouths when talking to people so their voices did not come out with natural tones but muffled. What do you say on that?

One of the Mothers, I cant remember which for definite, but I think it was Ummul Mu'mineen Zaynab bint Khuzaymah radhiyallahu anh, never left the chamber of the Prophet :saw: once beyond necessity after the passing of Nabi :saw:. What do you say to that?

The Ummahaatul Mu'mineen wouldnt even sit in one room with men without a curtain between them. Forget donning an abaayah - they had a curtain between themselves and the men, What do you say to that?

Picking out one or two specific examples and ignoring them in the context of a lifetime is bent logic.

[Medievalist]

Im wasting my time here.

:salams

[Danniella]

Daniella - I dont want to stoop to a slanging match.

But the point is relevant. Ummul Mu;mineen Aisha radhiyallahu anha was of the opinion that women should be banned from the masaajid. What do you have to say about that?

Ummul Mu;mineen Aisha radhiyallahu anha would veil from all strange men. What do you have to say about that?

Ummul Mu;mineen Aisha radhiyallahu anha would veil from Sayyidayn Hasnayn radhiyallahu anhuma, her own grandsons. What do you have to say about that?

Other Mothers would put cloth infront of their mouths when talking to people so their voices did not come out with natural tones but muffled. What do you say on that?

One of the Mothers, I cant remember which for definite, but I think it was Ummul Mu'mineen Zaynab bint Khuzaymah radhiyallahu anh, never left the chamber of the Prophet :saw: once beyond necessity after the passing of Nabi :saw:. What do you say to that?

The Ummahaatul Mu'mineen wouldnt even sit in one room with men without a curtain between them. Forget donning an abaayah - they had a curtain between themselves and the men, What do you say to that?

Picking out one or two specific examples and ignoring them in the context of a lifetime is bent logic.

Brother,

Irrelevant and you're digressing.
Your line of thought is equally applicable to men in all areas of life, where they choose to submit to one ruling and ignore others. You just have to look at the Muslim world and see how it is governed by this male hypocrisy.

But we are discussing successful/smart women.
And, no, with equal respect from both sides we can avoid a slanging match.

[Medievalist]

:salams

[Cartman]

Kafir ideology in play here.

What the husband earns is his money, yes he has to spend sufficiently on his family, but in no way does the money the husband earns suddenly become half his wifes. Which alim told you this? Or are you talking about the british law where husbands earnings are half to the wife?

Even the furniture in the house - belongs to one person unless otherwise stated. When the person dies all his belongings come into his meerath.

And the woman controlling her husbands monies in case of death? In case of death the husbands bank balance and the rest of his wealth is to be divided between his inheritors - if the wife assumes control of his house and his artefacts then she has eaten the right of the other heirs and is guilty and liable to punishment in the hereafter.

I don't think that's the implication...

The implication is since the woman runs the husband's household and takes care of everything dealing with the household, then of course she would have to know a little finances to determine the food budget, budget for the kid's clothes and playthings, the bills and all the little things that women take care of in your house....No one said that the earnings are half the wife's, but besides the money she and her children are entitled to, she has to have money to run the house with....come on now bro...You're about 57, you should know his :outta

Although teh husband ultimately owns it all,. they are still partners and must involve each other in financial decisions...The Husband is the ultimate decision maker, but what kind of husband would he be if he did not take any input from his wife(ves).....a bad one, is what he would be...



With all due respect, The Mother of the Believers Aisha (RA) had no authority whatsoever to ban the women from the mosques or have an opinion of so, after the prophet had stated otherwise...

[muhammed_1428]

Whilst the examples you have mentioned are legendary... In fact that is the point.

Only these women (RA) are capable of such actions, as are the male companions (RA) capable of certain actions and intentions as well, as was the Prophet Muhammed (SAW) capable of certain actions.

One may be able to seek education or a career and still enable themselves to consistently remember these people and their examples, it depends on the school and manhaj you adhere to as to whether not emulating certain actions in the sunnah, from either males or females, is haraam or not.

The fact of the matter is that if a sister feels that she would rather stay home as a house wife and serve her husband and family as such, even if she is fully capable of developing a supreme career, then so be it. However, if that same person is say, doing what they're doing in substitution to gaining an education to helping other Muslimeen... Then they'd have to re-consider their decision ni my opinion.

Likewise, if a sister decides that she wants to pursue an education, and is able to achieve an acceptable balance between her duties (of which gaining an education in itself would essentially become a new duty, i.e. if you've started it you gotta finish it right?) - then sure its quite unreasonable for someone to come along and say "no, dont.".

Salaam Shamil, whilst I think its incredibly arrogant for you to say things such as expecting your future wife to 'be at your beck and call' (unless you have considerable physical disabilities, in which case it would be perfectly understandable. Or if you were just saying it in jest :p ); I must say she would be quite an amazing woman for doing such a thing.

I suggest you read on examples of the Prophet Muhammed SAW and other men in history who weren't so expectant of their women.

[Joha]

Can you please give an example of what kinda things she needs to hold a man accountable for??
I'll give you some - what he's doing with money he couldn't have earned if she wasn't there to help him.

Like wasting it on fast cars, and extravagant shows..that sort of accountability.

As for politics and using the worn down argument that it does not concern them. This is absolutely mind boggling coming from a person who seems half intelligent. Politics affects them too, they don't live in some sort of a protective bubble.

Using that argument, perhaps we should tell women to stop learning about Islamic Jurisprudence (or indeed anything to do with their faith). They should only be concerned with the results and the rulings and what men tell them.

Maybe if women had a little bit more interest in politics we wouldn't have had two world wars and multiple genocides within the space of a 100 years. The record of male rulers speaks for itself I'm afraid. There may be many other reasons why women shouldn't rule, but history isn't one of them.

Anyway, your type will be extinct soon, natural selection; a wonderful thing :rolleyes:

[Medievalist]

Anyway, your type will be extinct soon, natural selection; a wonderful thing :rolleyes:

Lol. On the contrary - my type are the type who have loads of kids and numerous wives. lol.

[-Shamil-]

Salaam Shamil, whilst I think its incredibly arrogant for you to say things such as expecting your future wife to 'be at your beck and call' (unless you have considerable physical disabilities, in which case it would be perfectly understandable. Or if you were just saying it in jest :p ); I must say she would be quite an amazing woman for doing such a thing.

.

I think i deserve it :up:

nah bruv was all just tongue in cheek :p

[in_exile]

I'll give you some - what he's doing with money he couldn't have earned if she wasn't there to help him.

Like wasting it on fast cars, and extravagant shows..that sort of accountability.

As for politics and using the worn down argument that it does not concern them. This is absolutely mind boggling coming from a person who seems half intelligent. Politics affects them too, they don't live in some sort of a protective bubble.

Using that argument, perhaps we should tell women to stop learning about Islamic Jurisprudence (or indeed anything to do with their faith). They should only be concerned with the results and the rulings and what men tell them.

Maybe if women had a little bit more interest in politics we wouldn't have had two world wars and multiple genocides within the space of a 100 years. The record of male rulers speaks for itself I'm afraid. There may be many other reasons why women shouldn't rule, but history isn't one of them.

Anyway, your type will be extinct soon, natural selection; a wonderful thing :rolleyes:


no she has no divine right to ask what he does with his money, its his choice whether he gives her that right or not... how a husband spends his money is of no concern to his wife or even his mother! he can choose to spend it on a car, on a poor person etc as long as she is provided for in that time...

you quote history whilst we look to the prophet *saW* who said that any people with a woman ruler will be ruined

[Danniella]

no she has no divine right to ask what he does with his money, its his choice whether he gives her that right or not... how a husband spends his money is of no concern to his wife or even his mother! he can choose to spend it on a car, on a poor person etc as long as she is provided for in that time...

you quote history whilst we look to the prophet *saW* who said that any people with a woman ruler will be ruined

Weak hadith!

[in_exile]

Weak hadith!

in your dreams *rolleyes*

[`asiya]

Weak hadith!

is it :confused: its in sahih al bukhari, i`ve never heard it being said as daif before, have to go ask about that.

[Medievalist]

Just goes to show, some people chat outta the wrong end. and preaching to me :coolbro:

[muhammed_1428]

Lol. On the contrary - my type are the type who have loads of kids and numerous wives. lol.

Too true :D

Read a book called Freakanomics (not just you buyt everyone here) and it talks about the differences in reproduction amongst different kinds of people and how that affects population and other aspects of society etc, very good read.

[Cartman]

Too true :D

Read a book called Freakanomics (not just you buyt everyone here) and it talks about the differences in reproduction amongst different kinds of people and how that affects population and other aspects of society etc, very good read.

It's not a very good read....It's an excellent read

[sis_niqabi]

The womans place is at home and its her male relatives responsibilty to care for her needs. She doesnt need to know how to speak to people outside the home, what kind of thing is that to say for a purdah-nasheen woman?


but you have to take into consideration that we live in changing times. many muslim women nowadays do not have male relative to take care of them. many muslim women nowadays are left to fend for themselves. so as a result women need to be prepared to be able to take care of themselves.

and what about the amount of revert women nowadays? they don't have any male relatives to go to. and even born muslim women nowadays some of them don't even have male relatives to take care of them.

you know many muslim women don't have a choice but to go outside the home and provide for themselves

[Medievalist]

sis_niqabi: Im speaking for my situation.

[Cartman]

but you have to take into consideration that we live in changing times. many muslim women nowadays do not have male relative to take care of them. many muslim women nowadays are left to fend for themselves. so as a result women need to be prepared to be able to take care of themselves.

and what about the amount of revert women nowadays? they don't have any male relatives to go to. and even born muslim women nowadays some of them don't even have male relatives to take care of them.

you know many muslim women don't have a choice but to go outside the home and provide for themselves

medievalists problem (no offense bro med, you know I like you) is that he generalizes all situations and then uses flawed logic on those generalizations...such a process will not give you a very good conclusion

[Joha]

Lol. On the contrary - my type are the type who have loads of kids and numerous wives. lol.
:rotfl: yer right, watch ya kids though, they're gonna have more sense InshaAllah :up:

no she has no divine right to ask what he does with his money, its his choice whether he gives her that right or not... how a husband spends his money is of no concern to his wife or even his mother!

you quote history whilst we look to the prophet *saW* who said that any people with a woman ruler will be ruined

And I guess you missed the whole post. I'm not speaking of money he earns, I specifically said money he wouldn't have earned without his wife. That money isn't his, she's as much a part of it as he is. He can't do whatever the hell he likes with that money. Especially nowadays, it's very hard to distinguish between what a man or woman has independently earned and what they've jointly earned.

And again, I wasn't quoting history - I acknowledged there may be other reasons why they shouldn't lead, but the facts on the ground, as shown in the actions of the majority of rulers, aren't a good reason.

nb: It's important not to confuse a wife and a mother - even financially.

[muhammed_1428]

Erm, soz danielle i hate to burst any bubbles but the hadeeth mentioned by sister 'asiya is very much strong, and is in fact a very important point.

another way I'v heard it to be said is "any nation with a woman as their ruler is doomed to failure". And its true.

Did any of the female companions try and nominate themselves to rule Muslim lands? No.

There's no 'being sexist' about it and anyone can change the defition of sexist how they please to try make themselves right.

Sorry to come across blunt but essentially both brothers and sisters need to be blunt in this issue: Sisters will not and should not be able to have head of state rule on Muslim lands.

As for being members of certain 'parliaments' or contributing to certain ruling processes then I guess this is a whole other issue.

I mean even without the text - in terms of being leaders, men have the more dominant nature and are more fit for the role.

By all means sisters can be managers or executive or own their GPs or law firms or be head of the household in terms of for example "no we are not getting an HDTV!" lol. But in terms of actually heading an entire country as the main ruler, then no, this can never be the case if a nation wnats to succeed according to what Allah SWT Deems success for us.

[sis_niqabi]

sis_niqabi: Im speaking for my situation.

the line i quoted gives the impression you were speaking in general. you didn't say my wife in that statement you just 'the woman's'. so i assumed you were talking about women in general in that statement.

[`asiya]

Erm, soz danielle i hate to burst any bubbles but the hadeeth mentioned by sister 'asiya is very much strong, and is in fact a very important point.

another way I'v heard it to be said is "any nation with a woman as their ruler is doomed to failure". And its true.

Did any of the female companions try and nominate themselves to rule Muslim lands? No.

There's no 'being sexist' about it and anyone can change the defition of sexist how they please to try make themselves right.

Sorry to come across blunt but essentially both brothers and sisters need to be blunt in this issue: Sisters will not and should not be able to have head of state rule on Muslim lands.

As for being members of certain 'parliaments' or contributing to certain ruling processes then I guess this is a whole other issue.

I mean even without the text - in terms of being leaders, men have the more dominant nature and are more fit for the role.

By all means sisters can be managers or executive or own their GPs or law firms or be head of the household in terms of for example "no we are not getting an HDTV!" lol. But in terms of actually heading an entire country as the main ruler, then no, this can never be the case if a nation wnats to succeed according to what Allah SWT Deems success for us.



absolutely leave the mens work to the men :up:

[Medievalist]

the line i quoted gives the impression you were speaking in general. you didn't say my wife in that statement you just 'the woman's'. so i assumed you were talking about women in general in that statement.

It also applies to women in general, but general means not specific to every single case. So obviously cases like women with no male relative etc are specifics. In general women are to stay at home and do what is in their nature. Changing times doesnt mean much - times are always changing but women are still women and men still men. So the gender roles remain - its upto a person whether he/she decides to follow what their gender role is or whether they "go with the times"

Cartman: considering what we've just been discussing in private I find it starnge you accuse me of bent logic **roll eyes**

[Medievalist]

Now seriously - Im turning a new page. :salams

:salams


:salams

[.: Anna :.]

:rotfl: yer right, watch ya kids though, they're gonna have more sense InshaAllah :up:



And I guess you missed the whole post. I'm not speaking of money he earns, I specifically said money he wouldn't have earned without his wife. That money isn't his, she's as much a part of it as he is. He can't do whatever the hell he likes with that money. Especially nowadays, it's very hard to distinguish between what a man or woman has independently earned and what they've jointly earned.

And again, I wasn't quoting history - I acknowledged there may be other reasons why they shouldn't lead, but the facts on the ground, as shown in the actions of the majority of rulers, aren't a good reason.

nb: It's important not to confuse a wife and a mother - even financially.

Joha not sure what you mean about distinguishing the money.. he is the one who went to work and earned it, his name is on the payslip etc. so I don't really see where the problem is in distinguishing that. Unless they had some kind of a joint business that they both participate. I'm sure she will support him in going to work, like iron the work clothes, make breakfast before he goes and whatever but still he is the one who earned the money...
I don't understand your point? :confused:

[LastFriday]

Which women is more successful than the one who obeys her husband and fears Allah. :rolleyes:

[muhammed_1428]

Which women is more successful than the one who obeys her husband and fears Allah. :rolleyes:

the one obeys her husband and fears Allah SWT more :p

I don't get it, what you implying here with regards to a sister fearing Allah SWT?

[Joha]

Joha not sure what you mean about distinguishing the money..

I'm sure she will support him in going to work, like iron the work clothes, make breakfast before he goes and whatever but still he is the one who earned the money...
I don't understand your point? :confused:

Well, put it this way - take an example of a high flier, who works from 6 in the morning till 11 earning his millions (there are plenty). He spends a lot of time abroad, dotted around Europe, spending whole days there. He wouldn't be able to do that if his wife wasn't prepared to be at home looking after the kids 24 hours a day.

In that situation I think the line between 'his' earnings and 'hers' is very very very fine. The payslip may say one thing but the facts say another. That's to give an extreme example - but not too rare a one.

[Danniella]

Which women is more successful than the one who obeys her husband and fears Allah. :rolleyes:

One who obeys Allah first, then obeys her husband who is a true Allah-fearing and practising Muslim!!

[Pippin1376]

One of the Mothers, I cant remember which for definite, but I think it was Ummul Mu'mineen Zaynab bint Khuzaymah radhiyallahu anh, never left the chamber of the Prophet :saw: once beyond necessity after the passing of Nabi :saw:. What do you say to that?

Just a correction: I think you are confusing the wives, Zaynab bint Khuzaymah died in 4th Hijrah, so it can't be her. I know that Safiyyah didn't leave the house after the Prophet (SAW) passed on, was it her you were thinking of? I might be wrong, inshallah someone can correct us.

Read a book called Freakanomics (not just you buyt everyone here) and it talks about the differences in reproduction amongst different kinds of people and how that affects population and other aspects of society etc, very good read.
Sounds interesting, I'll have to pick this up. :jkk:

[in_exile]

And I guess you missed the whole post. I'm not speaking of money he earns, I specifically said money he wouldn't have earned without his wife. That money isn't his, she's as much a part of it as he is. He can't do whatever the hell he likes with that money. Especially nowadays, it's very hard to distinguish between what a man or woman has independently earned and what they've jointly earned.

And again, I wasn't quoting history - I acknowledged there may be other reasons why they shouldn't lead, but the facts on the ground, as shown in the actions of the majority of rulers, aren't a good reason.

nb: It's important not to confuse a wife and a mother - even financially.


I think you have missed the point... your wife by being at home etc hasnt in the legal islamic sense helped earn you that money, she has helped look after your house and children and in return you feed and clothe and protect her etc.... she has no right upon that money after her needs are taken care for above say the right of your mother etc...

yes you shouldnt confuse your wife with your mother, because your mother has more right that to question you as she did give birth to you, raise you, look after and teach you, so she has every right that you look after and provide for her in her old age...

and you shouldnt confuse your wife with yourself either, you are you and your wife is your wife...

[Danniella]

I think you have missed the point... your wife by being at home etc hasnt in the legal islamic sense helped earn you that money, she has helped look after your house and children and in return you feed and clothe and protect her etc.... she has no right upon that money after her needs are taken care for above say the right of your mother etc...

yes you shouldnt confuse your wife with your mother, because your mother has more right that to question you as she did give birth to you, raise you, look after and teach you, so she has every right that you look after and provide for her in her old age...

and you shouldnt confuse your wife with yourself either, you are you and your wife is your wife...

"your wife by being at home etc hasnt in the legal islamic sense helped earn you that money"

Can you prove that with Islamic references - just out of curiosity.

[in_exile]

"your wife by being at home etc hasnt in the legal islamic sense helped earn you that money"

Can you prove that with Islamic references - just out of curiosity.

of the top of my head the clearest evidence is that off divorce.... if a husband divorces his wife, she gets nothing from him, he has no obligation to give her a house etc or anything... the only obligation he has is towards his children...

also the hadith of the wife of abu safyan (ra) when she came to complain to the prophet *Saw* about Abu safyan (Ra) being miserly, he gave her permission only to take that which was neccessary for her needs... not to take half etc...

perhaps you need to find evidence that the wife has a share in the husbands earnings as that is the claim that you are making

[Al-Farooq]

There seems to be a undercurrent of belief, in this thread, that intelligence will usually, if not always, equate to disobedience. Quite simply, nothing could be further from the truth, as being disobedient is more a result of a lack of piety and taqwa, rather than being inherently linked to levels of intelligence. Assuming that piety is a given, one of the obvious attractions of intelligent women is that they have the capacity to fully understand the intricacies of an Islamic marriage and the rewards of willingly embracing all aspects of the marital responsibilities, rather than fulfilling her role begrudgingly, under constant duress.

A sister that fully understands the strictly defined gender roles within an Islamic marriage and has the intelligence to realise the many obvious benefits of fulfilling her marital responsibilities and giving her husband his marital rights in return for him doing likewise for her, will make a much better wife than one who doesn't have the intellectual wherewithal to comprehend those benefits and has obedience forced upon her by strong arm tactics, rather than accepting it willingly and completely in return for the fulfilment of her rights by her husband.

Personally, I would much rather have an intelligent wife that understands her role, understands the many benefits of obedience and fulfilment of marital rights and responsibilities and embraces the traditional role of wife and mother, than an less intellectually astute wife who can't comprehend the benefits and has to be constantly chastised and reminded of her role in the marriage and is clearly just going through the motions, rather than embracing her role with obvious enthusiasm.

All that chastising and reprimanding sounds like a right headache to me, I'd much rather have an intelligent wife who embraces her role willingly...oh hang on, I already have. Masha'Allah. :up::p:D

[Pippin1376]

Personally, I would much rather have an intelligent wife that understands her role, understands the many benefits of obedience and fulfilment of marital rights and responsibilities and embraces the traditional role of wife and mother, than an less intellectually astute wife who can't comprehend the benefits and has to be constantly chastised and reminded of her role in the marriage and is clearly just going through the motions, rather than embracing her role with obvious enthusiasm.
Nicely said. I think with Medievalist, he's not talking about intelligence in the deen, because no one can deny her that. She has a right to learn and her husband can't stop her. Instead, he's talking about intelligence in the 'western' education system through university and college.

[Russo]

Salaam

I am very successful in my job and financially secure. That does not mean I am career minded or materialistic.

I would be happy to be the submissive wife actually and stay at home and cook dinner and run the house. I am single at present but inshallah when I do marry, my role will be to stay at home and run the affairs of the house and look after the children. Surprise you hey!!! Us women do exist.

However, I would like to make joint decisions with my husband on most affairs such as money and house related issues. Its not that I dont trust him or I am being domineering; its because I need to know that whatever decisions he is making that may affect me and my children are the right decisions. I would feel better that he had shared his thoughts with me so that I can also give my feedback before he makes those decisions. Behind every successul man is a woman!

I do need to know how to run my husbands affairs should one day my husband pass away. The true reality is that most people's families are unable to look after widows and their children full time because they have their own families to look after.

When I meant a woman being able to speak to other people outside of the home, I actually meant when you go to the bank; when you go shoppingl when you apply for benefits; when you go to the docs or dentist. I am talking about communication where necessary - I am not talking about social activities!

[Kal-El]

You know I smile amidst all these discussions about spouses and the characteristics we'd want in them. What people don't seem to realise is that we often do not have a check list nor can we have one to rate our spouses. They are who they are, and we love them for all that they are not the individual layers. I don't think anyone feels that they're married to someone who isn't intelligent in some fashion so this is kinda irrelevant to be honest.

I would never base or judge someone's intelligence or intellectual capacity by their CV (Résumé document), that's what employers do when looking for someone to fulfil a job, not to live your life with them.

Salaam

I would be happy to be the submissive wife !

Wa'alaikum Salaam. I don't like the term "submissive" with its negative connotations. You do not submit to anyone but Allah (swt), and being a housewife is not submissive to anything as that implies you are more than happy to yield to things. Be strong

[Medievalist]

Nicely said. I think with Medievalist, he's not talking about intelligence in the deen, because no one can deny her that. She has a right to learn and her husband can't stop her. Instead, he's talking about intelligence in the 'western' education system through university and college.

Yes. Deeni ta'leem is fard on her.

[sis_niqabi]

I think you have missed the point... your wife by being at home etc hasnt in the legal islamic sense helped earn you that money, she has helped look after your house and children and in return you feed and clothe and protect her etc.... she has no right upon that money after her needs are taken care for above say the right of your mother etc...

yes you shouldnt confuse your wife with your mother, because your mother has more right that to question you as she did give birth to you, raise you, look after and teach you, so she has every right that you look after and provide for her in her old age...

and you shouldnt confuse your wife with yourself either, you are you and your wife is your wife...

i think what Joha means that the wife has a right to know what type of the financial decisions the husband is going to do before he makes them. also that the husband should discuss financial matters with his wife as well. because whatever financial decisions he makes it will affect her and the kids.

[Neurostyler]

There seems to be a undercurrent of belief, in this thread, that intelligence will usually, if not always, equate to disobedience. Quite simply, nothing could be further from the truth, as being disobedient is more a result of a lack of piety and taqwa, rather than being inherently linked to levels of intelligence. Assuming that piety is a given, one of the obvious attractions of intelligent women is that they have the capacity to fully understand the intricacies of an Islamic marriage and the rewards of willingly embracing all aspects of the marital responsibilities, rather than fulfilling her role begrudgingly, under constant duress.

A sister that fully understands the strictly defined gender roles within an Islamic marriage and has the intelligence to realise the many obvious benefits of fulfilling her marital responsibilities and giving her husband his marital rights in return for him doing likewise for her, will make a much better wife than one who doesn't have the intellectual wherewithal to comprehend those benefits and has obedience forced upon her by strong arm tactics, rather than accepting it willingly and completely in return for the fulfilment of her rights by her husband.

Personally, I would much rather have an intelligent wife that understands her role, understands the many benefits of obedience and fulfilment of marital rights and responsibilities and embraces the traditional role of wife and mother, than an less intellectually astute wife who can't comprehend the benefits and has to be constantly chastised and reminded of her role in the marriage and is clearly just going through the motions, rather than embracing her role with obvious enthusiasm.

All that chastising and reprimanding sounds like a right headache to me, I'd much rather have an intelligent wife who embraces her role willingly...oh hang on, I already have. Masha'Allah. :up::p:D

Are you a convert to Islam?

[jazz8000]

Salaam

I am very successful in my job and financially secure. That does not mean I am career minded or materialistic.

I would be happy to be the submissive wife actually and stay at home and cook dinner and run the house. I am single at present but inshallah when I do marry, my role will be to stay at home and run the affairs of the house and look after the children. Surprise you hey!!! Us women do exist.

However, I would like to make joint decisions with my husband on most affairs such as money and house related issues. Its not that I dont trust him or I am being domineering; its because I need to know that whatever decisions he is making that may affect me and my children are the right decisions. I would feel better that he had shared his thoughts with me so that I can also give my feedback before he makes those decisions. Behind every successul man is a woman!

I do need to know how to run my husbands affairs should one day my husband pass away. The true reality is that most people's families are unable to look after widows and their children full time because they have their own families to look after.

When I meant a woman being able to speak to other people outside of the home, I actually meant when you go to the bank; when you go shoppingl when you apply for benefits; when you go to the docs or dentist. I am talking about communication where necessary - I am not talking about social activities!


Commendable understanding of respective roles

My personal opinion is that there should be only one head of the household, the husband, who has the final say however the husband on his own would struggle.

If a wife is edcuated, she is more aware and has experience things, perfect to bounce ideas off and consult on what choices to make in life, a different point of you and being your wife, would have the best of intentions for both of you.

I think the problem arrises is if a guy doesn't know the girl, i.e. arranged marriages, he will have to make educated guess and assumptions based on what ever limited information he has, i.e. a doctor... strong... ambitious... would she want to do things her way etc and ers on the side of caution. This assumptions would come from experiences, i.e. looking at existing married couples in the family.

But then there is another issue as well. Generaly i do beleive it is better if the husband is at the same level or above compared to the wife interms of education, religion etc. If a wife is more educated etc than husband and doesn't have the understanding of roles, it has potential for future problems.

[Al-Farooq]

Are you a convert to Islam?

Yes I am alhamdulillah.

[Danniella]

of the top of my head the clearest evidence is that off divorce.... if a husband divorces his wife, she gets nothing from him, he has no obligation to give her a house etc or anything... the only obligation he has is towards his children...

also the hadith of the wife of abu safyan (ra) when she came to complain to the prophet *Saw* about Abu safyan (Ra) being miserly, he gave her permission only to take that which was neccessary for her needs... not to take half etc...

perhaps you need to find evidence that the wife has a share in the husbands earnings as that is the claim that you are making

So you incorrectly stated that "your wife by being at home etc hasnt in the legal islamic sense helped earn you that money".

If a man is islamically obliged to feed/clothe/etc his wife, then that gives her an Islamic right to have a say over his earnings where it concerns her - i.e. her well being, household issues, etc!

[Medievalist]

Im advising the Mods to keep on eye on this "Danniella". She seems to be speaking a lot of personal opinion with no real substance. Example includes the "weak hadeeth" comment the muhadiththa came out with. I smell a rat.

[.: Anna :.]

Well, put it this way - take an example of a high flier, who works from 6 in the morning till 11 earning his millions (there are plenty). He spends a lot of time abroad, dotted around Europe, spending whole days there. He wouldn't be able to do that if his wife wasn't prepared to be at home looking after the kids 24 hours a day.

In that situation I think the line between 'his' earnings and 'hers' is very very very fine. The payslip may say one thing but the facts say another. That's to give an extreme example - but not too rare a one.

well i think in that case, he has to support her and family to a good standard. he should do it in proportion to his earnings, like dnt keep her in a very poor way because he can understand to keep everything properly.. but doesn't mean she is equally in charge of his money aswell - ultimately it is his, but obviously she will have access to it.
still wife normally ends up giving advice like "dont buy that its a waste of money" or something and husband may be okay with it, but then if he chose to ignore it and get that item, it will not really be right for her to be angry, aslong as he has spent on her properly and not been stingy towards her. because he did buy it from his own money. if wife bought something from her private money, and husband thought it was a waste, its not his place to tell her that she shouldnt have bought it, cos its her money.. and likewise with his.

[Umm_Hanzalah]

So you incorrectly stated that "your wife by being at home etc hasnt in the legal islamic sense helped earn you that money".

If a man is islamically obliged to feed/clothe/etc his wife, then that gives her an Islamic right to have a say over his earnings where it concerns her - i.e. her well being, household issues, etc!

She can express her needs and he has to provide for her based on those needs...but that doesn't mean he has to inform her about how he spends the rest of his money...if she's being taken care of...then there shouldn't be a problem.

[vermeersch]

well i think in that case, he has to support her and family to a good standard. he should do it in proportion to his earnings, like dnt keep her in a very poor way because he can understand to keep everything properly.. but doesn't mean she is equally in charge of his money aswell - ultimately it is his, but obviously she will have access to it.
still wife normally ends up giving advice like "dont buy that its a waste of money" or something and husband may be okay with it, but then if he chose to ignore it and get that item, it will not really be right for her to be angry, aslong as he has spent on her properly and not been stingy towards her. because he did buy it from his own money. if wife bought something from her private money, and husband thought it was a waste, its not his place to tell her that she shouldnt have bought it, cos its her money.. and likewise with his.I understand what you say, but it still sounds unfair to me.

For me, a marriage is a partnership : you pool efforts and resources, you share the benefits. Simple as that.

[carol_au]

I understand what you say, but it still sounds unfair to me.

For me, a marriage is a partnership : you pool efforts and resources, you share the benefits. Simple as that.

K.. so what are the benefits of marriage.. the true benefits. not the materialistic ones? In your understanding?

[.: Anna :.]

I understand what you say, but it still sounds unfair to me.

For me, a marriage is a partnership : you pool efforts and resources, you share the benefits. Simple as that.

yeah but in Islam we don't really go for the whole joint account thing, because women have got their rights to their own money anyway.. so having one joint account and paying all the bills and buying stuff out of that, and it includes wife's money, that is kind of "not right" and many husbands would feel dishonorable to do that. Having some money seperately to each other doesn't make any less of a partnership.

[Cristiana]

I'll try to steer as clear as possible from the whole "can a woman have a job" issue.

Say a man is perfectly happy doing his (not particularly well paid but fulfilling) job.

Say his wife studied hard many years to be a women's doctor, a professor for a female university or whichever job that is necessary to the Ummah and is highly paid. And she still manages to be a great wife and mother.

If this conditions are fulfilled, the man has NO REASON to have any feeling towards his wife but PRIDE in his wife and gratefulness towards Allah who gave him such an great companion and inspiring mother for their children.

Being smart, successful and earning a lot for a muslim woman do not necassarily mean being completely focused on your career to the neglet of all else. Therefore, if a sister like this "repels" potential husbands...it's THEIR LOSS.

[Supernova Nebula]

I'll try to steer as clear as possible from the whole "can a woman have a job" issue.

Say a man is perfectly happy doing his (not particularly well paid but fulfilling) job.

Say his wife studied hard many years to be a women's doctor, a professor for a female university or whichever job that is necessary to the Ummah and is highly paid. And she still manages to be a great wife and mother.

If this conditions are fulfilled, the man has NO REASON to have any feeling towards his wife but PRIDE in his wife and gratefulness towards Allah who gave him such an great companion and inspiring mother for their children.

Being smart, successful and earning a lot for a muslim woman do not necassarily mean being completely focused on your career to the neglet of all else. Therefore, if a sister like this "repels" potential husbands...it's THEIR LOSS.

excellently said:up:

[vermeersch]

yeah but in Islam we don't really go for the whole joint account thing, because women have got their rights to their own money anyway.. .Which money ? people on here keep saying that, in a Muslim household, the place of the woman is at home, so she wouldn't have any money at all, except what she already had initially... but she would be excluded from all the assets accumulated during the marriage...

[vermeersch]

K.. so what are the benefits of marriage.. the true benefits. not the materialistic ones? In your understanding?Sorry, I don't understand.

We all know the spiritual, emotional, physical benefits of marriage. However, the "materialistic" financial side is also quite important.

Let's say, after 20 years of joint efforts, there is a divorce, and the husband keeps all the assets accumulated by the "partnership" during the marriage.

Do you find that OK ?

[`asiya]

Sorry, I don't understand.

We all know the spiritual, emotional, physical benefits of marriage. However, the "materialistic" financial side is also quite important.

Let's say, after 20 years of joint efforts, there is a divorce, and the husband keeps all the assets acc