"He has to be a revert, and he has to be white"

[Kal-El]

I'd particularly like the sisters to reply, I'm sure the brothers here will know where I come from with this. It's funny at how men get criticised or looked at in a shallow way because of the stereotype that men really only focus on the looks of a woman when deciding to marry her or not. There's a new fashion for Muslim sisters now that is rarely talked about in public, but often among Muslim brothers. They want a revert for marriage; which can be understood because they don't want the cultural baggage certain ethnic background families could bring, but the downside to that is they're exclusive to this. What is to say that, if your Pakistani, that you cant find a Pakistani brother whose family do not care what country or what tribe you are from as long as your a good Muslim? So why not just state that you prefer reverts but are willing to atleast consider good proposals from men from your own ethnic background?

To make things more complicated, they usually want these reverted brothers to be specifically white. Again, its exclusive and never a 'preference'. There are sisters who you come across, either directly or indirectly, that only show interest or ask for specifically "a revert who is white".

Why not just say revert, or is there a particular attraction that Muslim women have to white men? If so that's fine but why is it that, almost every single request regarding a revert, he has to be white for her to consider? Is it some sort of attraction that has overtaken the Muslim world, is it discrimination or even dare I say racism?

Men can say "I like Lebanese/Syrian/Arab" women, and to me that is very different to saying "I only want a black/white woman". This isn't about specifying your preference, but the very fact that people will not even call it a preference - it's a non flexible demand suggesting that they will not consider anyone else from a different colour regardless of their characteristics.

[Peacenik]

To make things more complicated, they usually want these reverted brothers to be specifically white

That's slightly disturbing.

[.: Anna :.]

well i think it's a bit silly :p
also there is a lot of variation between white (or any other) revert bros, u can get ones with very different understanding of islam from each other, different mentality and personality etc. really like are just like any muslim, they won't be all similar just because they are a revert. so if this is the main specification for marriage i don't think it is that well thought out :scratch:

[angel*]

LOL, Mmmm what to say? I understand the 'revert' bit i guess imho i think most sisters would 'prefer' reverts simply for the reason that reverts are really strong in their deen. As for a guy being white-well i guess thats personal preference, maybe some sisters find white men more appealing than darker men? My couisn here thinks thats because Asian girls are so used to being around darker men that they don't carry the same appeal for them as white men do, again thats her opinion whereas i think Asian men are better looking which just goes to show that different people have a different personal preference and i dont think its wrong to 'want' something but then to turn away someone simply because he isn't a revert or has the skin color one dosnt desires is a bit pathetic and alot more vain. Looks are after all skin deep.

[Kal-El]

Well we all have different preferences to what we find attractive, but to base that entirely on just skin colour - :S Is that racism. If I say that I find far eastern women attractive, for example, but then I get proposals from women of different colours who have great traits, if I rejected them because they weren't from the far east, even though they themselves were attractive, what does that say about me or can I get away with it by saying its just "my taste".

What defines racism in this context

[sis_niqabi]

salam

i think it's preference. people like what they like. and it's only human nature to like something more than something else.

so if a sister wants to marry a white brother what's the problem?

too many brothers go around nowadays talking about they want a white woman and no one says anything. but when a sister says they want a white man everyone is all "oh sister atagfirallah, you shouldn't worry about things like that"

there is a double standard here.

and i don't think it's racism. it's called preference.

[OBL]

...

[Basil al-Mamluk]

Exact opposite for me. I seemingly have two strikes against me in the community because I'm not from Hyderabad/anywhere in Pakistan and I don't speak Urdu. I'm just starting the search for a wife and its getting slightly frustrating. Oh well, probably for the best. InshaAllah, I'm going to be going to study overseas next year and maybe it would be best for me to still be single for that.

[Kal-El]

salam

i think it's preference. people like what they like. and it's only human nature to like something more than something else.

so if a sister wants to marry a white brother what's the problem?

too many brothers go around nowadays talking about they want a white woman and no one says anything. but when a sister says they want a white man everyone is all "oh sister atagfirallah, you shouldn't worry about things like that"

there is a double standard here.

and i don't think it's racism. it's called preference.

The word preference means, ideally, more favoured, a taste, a strong liking, the default. There's nothing wrong in her wanting to marry a white revert brother, but if she were to reject even the greatest offers from brothers who weren't white, or reverts, and held out for a white one regardless if his proposal was better or not as good as the ones she rejected, can you call that 'preference' or racism?

For example, most sisters prefer their husbands to be taller but say you were 5" 7, met a brother whom proposed to you but was himself only 5" 7 aswell, but his proposal and his character was wonderful and he was attractive, are you telling me you'd reject him because of his height? Very much doubt it. When you know you got a good thing, you keep it. And preferences can be broken or over-ruled.

But these demands of some sisters seemingly cannot, which is why I find it hard to term them preferences rather than demands.

[Tranquillity]

I think we need to try to remember not to get carried away here and start accusing our fellow Muslims of having bad intentions.
As you say, it's perfectly understandable wanting to marry a revert. Perhaps wanting him to be white is because he's likely to be British/ European and therefore not needing citizenship. I am NOT saying that reverts of other races marry solely for this reason, or that there are no black British reverts but I am just pointing out that when we don't know the motives of these sisters then we should not be jumping to conclusions.

[angel*]

I would say that's racism, to turn a brother away just because he has the wrong skin color is to me without a doubt racist.
I think skin color should be kept strictly as a 'preference' not something that has to be there for a sister to even consider him. Like i said before thats just abit pathetic and alot more vain. There are sisters out there who dont have the pleasure of saying they want this that and the other in the spouse simply because getting one is a task in itself. Skin colour shouldnt matter as long as theres strong iman and a good deen there. With that said, if you can find a brother who has everything u want in him, then thats ace! Like niqaabi said, theres nothing wrong with wanting a white revert brother - as long as u dont take it to the extreme.

[extempers]

Bismillah,

This isn't something new. It has to do with tv, movies and obsession with American culture.

[Pippin1376]

salam

i think it's preference. people like what they like. and it's only human nature to like something more than something else.

so if a sister wants to marry a white brother what's the problem?

too many brothers go around nowadays talking about they want a white woman and no one says anything. but when a sister says they want a white man everyone is all "oh sister atagfirallah, you shouldn't worry about things like that"

there is a double standard here.

and i don't think it's racism. it's called preference.

I don't think someone's preference is the problem, if they find white people attractive, then alhamdullilah. My concern is that they want white and nothing else. They are basically telling Allah that no matter what I want my way. There might be a very nice, religious, attractive brother who isn't white and if you reject him over that little aspect.

I think you are ruining your chances at having a happy life over a skin colour. Love everyone and then all you have to worry about is the deen. :inlove:

[sis_niqabi]

The word preference means, ideally, more favoured, a taste, a strong liking, the default. There's nothing wrong in her wanting to marry a white revert brother, but if she were to reject even the greatest offers from brothers who weren't white, or reverts, and held out for a white one regardless if his proposal was better or not as good as the ones she rejected, can you call that 'preference' or racism?

For example, most sisters prefer their husbands to be taller but say you were 5" 7, met a brother whom proposed to you but was himself only 5" 7 aswell, but his proposal and his character was wonderful and he was attractive, are you telling me you'd reject him because of his height? Very much doubt it. When you know you got a good thing, you keep it. And preferences can be broken or over-ruled.

But these demands of some sisters seemingly cannot, which is why I find it hard to term them preferences rather than demands.

but when it comes to marriage what's on the outside is just as important as the inside. if a sister doesn't like darker/tanned skinned brothers, how can she marry someone who she doesn't even find attractive.

and the example you used about the height, if the sister dislikes men who are at a certain height what's the problem?

[Supernova Nebula]

If its a matter of preference then let them be, that's their bussiness - and here the thread starter more often than not talks about how important attraction is which is a subjective matter. I believe those sisters are not random even in their preference for the so-called white reverts. as long as they are white then they'll just accept any white person or revert if you like, this is not the case, although u might perceive it shallow IT IS NOT THAT RANDOM AND SHALLOW actually. Like the Balkans people are white caucasian but some of their unislamic behaviour -despite were born Muslims and surrounded by Muslims are appalling to some practicing sisters or brothers.. You got a white person infront of you but he/she treats you like dirt, you think anybody would just accept him/her being white despite he/she treats you like dirt? NO WAY!

[Phoenix CG]

I just want to throw a spanner in the works for the hell of it, ya'll all racist, all of ya'll :o

[Peacenik]

Bismillah,

This isn't something new. It has to do with tv, movies and obsession with American culture.

I blame MTV....

[Kal-El]

but when it comes to marriage what's on the outside is just as important as the inside. if a sister doesn't like darker/tanned skinned brothers, how can she marry someone who she doesn't even find attractive.

and the example you used about the height, if the sister dislikes men who are at a certain height what's the problem?

Well I'm not saying forget the attraction aspect at all. I'm just saying, if you find white reverts attractive, then seek them out but don't dismiss the proposals of other men just because they're themselves not white, or even reverts, if you meet them, they could actually surprise you - and you could find them very attractive.

To me, there is a difference of having a preference, and having a demand. The latter means you won't even consider proposals from men outside certain preference points; I think if a man knows he is not exactly your preference, he would try harder and seem more sincere to try and deliver himself in the best possible way and it could impress you.

If its a matter of preference then let them be, that's their bussiness - and here the thread starter more often than not talks about how important attraction is which is a subjective matter.

You don't even know what the thread is about otherwise you wouldn't have challenged me as the 'thread starter':rolleyes:. We're debating what classes as a preference, and what does not. This isn't about debating or discussing preferences in general, but whether or not demanding a certain skin colour - without any chance of considering someone else outside that skin colour who also shows great traits, can be considered racism or simple attraction.

[Supernova Nebula]

You don't even know what the thread is about otherwise you wouldn't have challenged me as the 'thread starter':rolleyes:. We're debating what classes as a preference, and what does not. This isn't about debating or discussing preferences in general, but whether or not demanding a certain skin colour - without any chance of considering someone else outside that skin colour who also shows great traits, can be considered racism or simple attraction.
[/quote]

Fair enough

[-Shamil-]

I blame MTV....

i blame them devilishly handsome whitey's, coming to our communities, stealing our women :eek:

[miss-islamic]

Cuz the other reverts will be, if not white, have (“Eastern”) ethnic cultural baggage, which are all the same: s-u-f-f-o-c-a-t-i-n-g. :torture: The cases I’ve seen is when the dudes will want their spouse to be white but still want her to act like a [ ------- ] women (more specifically, baby them like their mom did, and wife would do if she was a [ ------- ] women :rolleyes: ) and he acts like a [ ------- ] man. These marriages usually don’t work out or just plain hard work and swallowing what they see as b.s. for one of the spouse( sometimes it’s the guy, sometime the girl). So yeh, basically it’s mostly about ethnic c.u.l.t.-ural baggage. :D Scientifically speaking, people are generally are and will be attracted to their own kind. Eyes are accustomed to it and all. ~ 2 cents. :)

[.: Anna :.]

Cuz the other reverts will be, if not white, have (“Eastern”) ethnic cultural baggage, which are all the same: s-u-f-f-o-c-a-t-i-n-g. :torture: The cases I’ve seen is when the dudes will want their spouse to be white but still want her to act like a [ ------- ] women (more specifically, baby them like their mom did, and wife would do if she was a [ ------- ] women :rolleyes: ) and he acts like a [ ------- ] man. These marriages usually don’t work out or just plain hard work and swallowing what they see as b.s. for one of the spouse( sometimes it’s the guy, sometime the girl). So yeh, basically it’s mostly about ethnic c.u.l.t.-ural baggage. :D Scientifically speaking, people are generally are and will be attracted to their own kind. Eyes are accustomed to it and all. ~ 2 cents. :)

well not really cos there are a lot of black revert guys and i dont think this applies to them

[neelu]

Kal El, what you're describing is definitely racist behaviour and inexcusable. It is however worth asking the sisters whether they specifically ask for white people because they are prejudiced themselves OR if it is because their afraid that their families would never accept a black revert but would be more open minded about a white person?

I myself have a personal preference for revert Muslims because I sense that as well as being practising, they're often less likely to carry the cultural baggage of their born-and-raised Muslim brethren. I would consider a revert whether he was white or not but then again, I know my family are mashallah open minded enough to not try and stop me and I know for a fact most Asian Muslim families I know will not accept a black son in law no matter how pious he was but MIGHT accept a white Muslim more willingly.

[JayC]

its a shame, it probably does happen. not surprised, so much racism in the ummah as it is.

anyways, whatever floats your boat. there are brothers out there like that too. and even in the same race... theres the whole "he/she must be very fair". race threads get a bit tiresome to read.

[Medievalist]

Just sounds wrongs - Muslim woman has preference for white men.

In our MP lingo, we;ve got words for women like that, and they aint nice words **roll eyes**

[Umm_Hanzalah]

Is there a word for men like that as well? :/

I honestly think it's to do with cultural baggage a lot of the time (that puts people off), though it may sometimes be because people are racist. I mean come on, skin colour? Sure you may have a preference but to say that I only want someone of this skin colour is yes, definitely racist.

[MMS]

i think it kinda depends what area your from :scratch: in my part of London i think most Asian girl's if they were to marry a revert, they would prefer a black revert, is that racism :embar:

anyway interesting hadith i read, not really to do with skin colour, but some people think its racist if someone only wants to marry within their own race and consider it asabiyya, im going to paraphrase but i'll find it if anybody is interested

a companion asks rasoolAllah SAW if it is asabiyya to love his own people, and the prophet SAW said No!, Asabiyya is to help your own people oppress others

i think its from Nasai

found it

ubaadah ibn katheer reported from a woman from among them called Faseelah who said: "I heard my father say: 'I asked the Messenger of Allah, "O messenger of allah is it al-asabeeyah (racism &tribalism) that a man love his own people?" He said "No! But al-asabeeyah is that a man helps his people in zulm (oppression and wrong doing)

is my post even relavant? i didnt read the whole of Kal-els post just skimmed it, got a short attention span and it was a bloomin essay aswell

[JayC]

Just sounds wrongs - Muslim woman has preference for white men.

In our MP lingo, we;ve got words for women like that, and they aint nice words **roll eyes**



what youjust said sounds wrong,


muslim women are not just asian. so your MP lingo wont apply to everyone else. and remember in your family its all the same kind that you put preference over.

having a preference is fine. specifying a person MUST be white/black/asian is what sounds racist.

[Umm_Hanzalah]

i think it kinda depends what area your from :scratch: in my part of London i think most Asian girl's if they were to marry a revert, they would prefer a black revert, is that racism :embar:

anyway interesting hadith i read, not really to do with skin colour, but some people think its racist if someone only wants to marry within their own race and consider it asabiyya, im going to paraphrase but i'll find it if anybody is interested

a companion asks rasoolAllah SAW if it is asabiyya to love his own people, and the prophet SAW said No!, Asabiyya is to help your own people oppress others

i think its from Nasai

is my post even relavant? i didnt read the whole of Kal-els post just skimmed it, got a short attention span and it was a bloomin essay aswell

It's ok to have a preference but to say you would never consider anyone else sounds a bit weird, whether that be based on race (just because of their race) or because of skin colour just because of their skin colour.

[Kubs]

I can understand the reason why Muslim women would want to marry 'revert' brothers......but to specifically ask for a 'white' bro...is racist. Technically when you rule out an entire race, it is racism.

We all go on about the racial equality that Islam advocates and how Islam was waaay ahead of other religions when it came to equality of all races - but doesn't actions speak louder than words? When deciding for a spouse....no matter HOW religious...HOW kind...or caring...or educated....well mannered...good looking....he may be.............the fact that he's dark skinned makes him less worthy to consider for marriage. We talk about loving all races and all backgrounds...but are we not being hypocrites when it comes to marriage?

What bro Kal stated is called quiet racism - it's when you claim you are not a racist....however; you have that slight feeling of superiority. Preference is a lame excuse to hide the fact that these women/men are racist for not marrying a black person.

Muslims are doing what is being done in mainstream society. We're making 'whiteness' exceptional while belittling everyone else. As long as he/she is white……then they’re good enough to marry. Not only does this make Islam look bad…but it also makes it harder for Muslims who are dark skinned…to be judged on their merit…what they’ve achieved………….rather they are judged on their appearance.

All this DESTROYS the racial equality that we Muslims claim to be so SO proud of……….

[Supernova Nebula]

Just sounds wrongs - Muslim woman has preference for white men.

In our MP lingo, we;ve got words for women like that, and they aint nice words **roll eyes**

I wish there was also not nice words to describe people like you.

[Zesty]

I can understand the reason why Muslim women would want to marry 'revert' brothers......but to specifically ask for a 'white' bro...is racist. Technically when you rule out an entire race, it is racism.

We all go on about the racial equality that Islam advocates and how Islam was waaay ahead of other religions when it came to equality of all races - but doesn't actions speak louder than words? When deciding for a spouse....no matter HOW religious...HOW kind...or caring...or educated....well mannered...good looking....he may be.............the fact that he's dark skinned makes him less worthy to consider for marriage. We talk about loving all races and all backgrounds...but are we not being hypocrites when it comes to marriage?

What bro Kal stated is called quiet racism - it's when you claim you are not a racist....however; you have that slight feeling of superiority. Preference is a lame excuse to hide the fact that these women/men are racist for not marrying a black person.

Muslims are doing what is being done in mainstream society. We're making 'whiteness' exceptional while belittling everyone else. As long as he/she is white……then they’re good enough to marry. Not only does this make Islam look bad…but it also makes it harder for Muslims who are dark skinned…to be judged on their merit…what they’ve achieved………….rather they are judged on their appearance.

All this DESTROYS the racial equality that we Muslims claim to be so SO proud of……….

SubhanAllah! :inlove: excellent post mah lickle cherub! Its actually called, "subtle prejudice." You know, the kind where people deny that they are really saying something when in actual fact its precisely what they are saying!

A preference is when you are more favourable towards something, whereas a prejudice (in this case) racism, is when the idea of superiority of one "race" reigns over another. IF a muslim sister is EXCLUSIVELY only looking at white revery brothers (as opposed to reverts in general or pious brothers of other ethnicities etc) then this is clearly racism. Particularly if there are just as good options being offered to here but her only issue is skin colour!

IF however she prefers a white revert because of things like less cultural baggage (and who can blame her) :rolleyes: BUT would consider brothers from other ethnicities who also didnt have cultural baggage and lived according to Haqq then its fine. Your arguement is that its exclusively on skin colour which i would deem as racism. HOWEVER in my opinion what youre talking about is rare. No sane muslimah that i know who has made comments about preferring a White revert (in general just a revert) has said it for shallow or vanity reasons such as skin tone. Rather its a whole load of factors that interplay.

I wish there was also not nice words to describe people like you.


:rotfl:

[Ebony]

Milk chocolate all the way. Don't like dark or white chocolate.

:1popcorn:

[~Warda~]

I think not concidering propsals just because someone isnt the skin colour u want them to be is racist-racist-racist, and nothing but racist.
I think sisters who have requirerements that are that specific are gonna be sitting at home for a loooong while...

[Abu Mus'ab]

i think it kinda depends what area your from :scratch: in my part of London i think most Asian girl's if they were to marry a revert, they would prefer a black revert, is that racism :embar:

anyway interesting hadith i read, not really to do with skin colour, but some people think its racist if someone only wants to marry within their own race and consider it asabiyya, im going to paraphrase but i'll find it if anybody is interested

a companion asks rasoolAllah SAW if it is asabiyya to love his own people, and the prophet SAW said No!, Asabiyya is to help your own people oppress others

i think its from Nasai

found it

ubaadah ibn katheer reported from a woman from among them called Faseelah who said: "I heard my father say: 'I asked the Messenger of Allah, "O messenger of allah is it al-asabeeyah (racism &tribalism) that a man love his own people?" He said "No! But al-asabeeyah is that a man helps his people in zulm (oppression and wrong doing)

is my post even relavant? i didnt read the whole of Kal-els post just skimmed it, got a short attention span and it was a bloomin essay aswell
You always beat me to it :rotfl:

That was just what i was going to say.

[souljaa]

What's asabiyya?

[vermeersch]

All this DESTROYS the racial equality that we Muslims claim to be so SO proud of……….Muslims are just humans, and react like humans, by following long-established cultural and historical patterns.

There is a long, long tradition of predominance by light-skinned peoples in Middle East/Indian Subcontinent/North Africa.

OK, Bilal was black, but I don't think there ever was a black Caliph....

[insomniac]

what circles do you run in Kal El sis? I haven't come across sisters with this mentality - or maybe they don't voice it in front of me :S

Dammit, I just don't socialise enough :smack:

[Kal-El]

I'm not a sis...I'm male, and although I don't have any "social circles" that compromise of girls, I know some and know of women. Brothers talk about it around me, and many here know exactly what I mean

[insomniac]

I'm not a sis...I'm male, and although I don't have any "social circles" that compromise of girls, I know some and know of women. Brothers talk about it around me, and many here know exactly what I mean


bad joke.... guess it's alien to me :S :rubeyes:

[MMS]

Muslims are just humans, and react like humans, by following long-established cultural and historical patterns.

There is a long, long tradition of predominance by light-skinned peoples in Middle East/Indian Subcontinent/North Africa.

OK, Bilal was black, but I don't think there ever was a black Caliph....

uthman dan fodio RH was a black caliph :inlove:

[Umm_Hanzalah]

Honestly? Before I was married I so didn't want to marry anyone who was an asian..I was just so sick and tired of the various stuff I heard sisters went through because of cultural backwardness and scary mother-in-laws etc.....I'm married to someone who is an asian and though cultural backwardness is widespread amongst asians my mil is ace, I love her and my hubby doesn't have the backward mentality either and it's all because the family is Islam conscious.

[Raashid]

The white bros are welcome to them, in fact we should encourage it. Then we men can get the much better looking white sisters!

[Supernova Nebula]

Marry whoever u are attracted to and happy with his/her deen, character etc doesnt matter if he's blue, green, yellow, black, white, purple, asian, african, arab etc AND if he/she treats you well:up:For your own happiness and if you can't be bothered what people say.

[Abu Mus'ab]

I'm not a sis...I'm male, and although I don't have any "social circles" that compromise of girls, I know some and know of women. Brothers talk about it around me, and many here know exactly what I mean

I for one don't know what you mean, and the majority of females here don't seem to know what you mean either, conclusion: it's just the people you know and a handful of others.

[Abu Mus'ab]

The white bros are welcome to them, in fact we should encourage it. Then we men can get the much better looking white sisters!
Will someone infract this guy already *Roll Eyes*

[SalafUsSalih]

SubhanAllah i do not think it is racist at all, when they themself are of a different race. I'm sure they would not want that 'white' brother to not consider them based on race. It is definetly prefrance, does not mean that they dismiss other races.

But if one were to say i only want to marry within my own race and no other then i would be worried...

[SalafUsSalih]

SubhanAllah i do not think it is racist at all, when they themself are of a different race. I'm sure they would not want that 'white' brother to not consider them based on race. It is definetly prefrance, does not mean that they dismiss other races.

But if one were to say i only want to marry within my own race and no other then i would be worried...

[Al-Farooq]

Attraction is a complicated matter and clearly cannot be contained within the boundaries of any rules...some of us may prefer the skin colour we see in the mirror each day, others may prefer a different ethnicity to our own while some, like myself, may have no particular preference, preferring to judge each individual without preconceived criteria.

However, I think sisters (or brothers) that prefer reverts do so because of other factors than skin colour. There seems to be a widely-accepted notion, however erroneous, that reverts are somehow guaranteed to be pious, free from cultural baggage and belong to families that are less interfering (for want of a better word) than born-Muslims. In addition, there also seems to be a common belief that revert brothers will treat their wives better than many born-Muslims, as terrible as that sounds.

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with having preferences, but I think it's rather insincere and extremely short-sighted to dismiss a potential suitor solely upon their skin colour and/or whether they were born into a Muslim family or not.

[nadzz]

To make things more complicated, they usually want these reverted brothers to be specifically white. Again, its exclusive and never a 'preference'. There are sisters who you come across, either directly or indirectly, that only show interest or ask for specifically "a revert who is white".

Asaalam,

Its very disturbing, may ALLAH give HADAYa to all of our sisters and all of us too. AMIN

Jazakalalh

[muhammed_1428]

Salaamu Alaykum

Well... With the whole 'he has to be a revert thing' because of the 'cultural baggage' I mean c'mon sisters! lol

give the brother a chance (not generalising that all sisters here think like this only those who really do want a white revert brother lol).

Essentially aren't we all 'reverts' to a certain extent? At one time or another haven't we been not so much on our deen, and then that day or few days or weeks or even years comes along which changes our life - encouraging us to be more practising and trying our best to shed off the cultural identity we used to have an replacing it with a stronger, more defiend religous one?

Personally, if there are sister out there who stipulate this much for the husband-to-be, then fine.

However - IMO one should be looking to two things in their spouse (well, these are my two criteria anyway)

Deen

Sense of humour

lol :p

P.S. looks, get over it, you trying to tell me that you really can't fall in love with someone who doesn't look like brad pitt or angelina jolie? Someone may find you ugly, and someone else may find you beautiful, everyone has their tastes at the end of the day. So brothers if looks are really all that important to you then I suggest you take a long hard think about why the niqaab exists in Islam (erm... Maybe so we don't go around comparing the faces of women saying oh I want her because shes puurtier... :p )

[Enigma Dreamer]

What's asabiyya?
Arabic term for racism.

[Mujib]

I know of a few sisters who want a WHITE revert...bro ibrahim your in luck! They just want a whitie so they can have white kids...pathetic when you think if it.

Oh well...life goes on

[Peacenik]

i blame them devilishly handsome whitey's, coming to our communities, stealing our women :eek:

:rotfl:

[Medievalist]

What I wanna know is, what do these "sisters" father/brothers have to say on the matter?

I'll be honest, I've never come across any practicing sister who says these things, but then maybe thats cos I dont speak with them. :scratch:

In any case, just seems a bit strange to me.

[Mujib]

What I wanna know is, what do these "sisters" father/brothers have to say on the matter?

I'll be honest, I've never come across any practicing sister who says these things, but then maybe thats cos I dont speak with them. :scratch:

In any case, just seems a bit strange to me.

THATS IT LADS...ATTACK THE SISTERS HAAAYAAAA....WATAAAAA :torture:
I dont think there family know of reason..maybe the sisters are darkies and want whities so they can have white kids....just a thought...you never know!

[Peacenik]

What I wanna know is, what do these "sisters" father/brothers have to say on the matter?

I'll be honest, I've never come across any practicing sister who says these things, but then maybe thats cos I dont speak with them. :scratch:

In any case, just seems a bit strange to me.

Brother, if the family's not happy with their daughter marrying someone from 'outside', then it would be best for her to respect the wishes of her parents.

But as we know, there will be some that will wish to rebel...

[Peacenik]

THATS IT LADS...ATTACK THE SISTERS HAAAYAAAA....WATAAAAA :torture:
I dont think there family know of reason..maybe the sisters are darkies and want whities so they can have white kids....just a thought...you never know!

:rotfl:


(some top posts in this thread) ;)

[Mujib]

:rotfl:


(some top posts in this thread) ;)

:up:

[Khubaib]

It's not just sisters. There are brothers that prefer "white" women. But perhaps not as many? Although there are more women in the world so maybe it's not a relevant comparison.

[Mujib]

It's not just sisters. There are brothers that prefer "white" women. But perhaps not as many? Although there are more women in the world so maybe it's not a relevant comparison.

Yep....I would be happy with a whitie or a brownie...not a darkie tho...yeh im racist!

[-Shamil-]

It's not just sisters. There are brothers that prefer "white" women.

but then some brothers would go for anything thats remotely female :outta:

[Mujib]

but then some brothers would go for anything thats remotely female :outta:

LOL....but the female has to be you know...nice -pray:

[Al-Farooq]

but then some brothers would go for anything thats remotely female :outta:

Yeah that's right bro, some brothers seem to have the following criteria for a prospective spouse:

1. Being Muslim
2. Having a pulse

Hold on!!...:eek3:...that was me!! :o :eek: :outta:

[MG]

Yeah that's right bro, some brothers seem to have the following criteria for a prospective spouse:

1. Being Muslim
2. Having a pulse

Hold on!!...:eek3:...that was me!! :o :eek: :outta:

:shock:

[Lord Summerisle]

Yeah that's right bro, some brothers seem to have the following criteria for a prospective spouse:

1. Being Muslim
2. Having a pulse

Hold on!!...:eek3:...that was me!! :o :eek: :outta:

Haven't you been married off yet, Slapdash?

[Al-Farooq]

Haven't you been married off yet, Slapdash?

Much to the dismay of Muslimah's everywhere, i can confirm that i am now married alhamdulillah.

Fear not, my sisters, I still have three wives left. :o

[/self-loathing masked by humour]

How about you, Summer, still a defiant bachelor? :o

[Mujib]

Much to the dismay of Muslimah's everywhere, i can confirm that i am now married alhamdulillah.

Fear not, my sisters, I still have three wives left. :o

[/self-loathing masked by humour]

How about you, Summer, still a defiant bachelor? :o

LOL...

[Medievalist]

Much to the dismay of Muslimah's everywhere, i can confirm that i am now married alhamdulillah.

Fear not, my sisters, I still have three wives left. :o

[/self-loathing masked by humour]

How about you, Summer, still a defiant bachelor? :o

I might be using this post to run an extortion racket with Al Farooq as the tennis ball.


muahahahaha.


:D:D

[Lord Summerisle]

Much to the dismay of Muslimah's everywhere, i can confirm that i am now married alhamdulillah.

Fear not, my sisters, I still have three wives left. :o

[/self-loathing masked by humour]

How about you, Summer, still a defiant bachelor? :o

Congratulations! :up:

I wish you both every happiness for the future.

Well, a batchelor, yes, defiant, no. I'm heading into my late 30's this year, and feel very much ready to settle down. What will be will be. I think it's important to be thankful and content in whatever situation you're in, as opposed to thinking I'll be happier when a situation changes.

[MsMuslimah]

salam
so if a sister wants to marry a white brother what's the problem?

too many brothers go around nowadays talking about they want a white woman and no one says anything. but when a sister says they want a white man everyone is all "oh sister atagfirallah, you shouldn't worry about things like that"

there is a double standard here.



Soo agreed. I've seen this soo many times in my own community.. The paler the skin the quicker she's married. If you're darker, than forget it.

When posing this question to sisters, I think the brothers definitely need to speak up on why they are doing exactly the same thing.

[Al-Farooq]

Congratulations! :up:

I wish you both every happiness for the future.

Well, a batchelor, yes, defiant, no. I'm heading into my late 30's this year, and feel very much ready to settle down. What will be will be. I think it's important to be thankful and content in whatever situation you're in, as opposed to thinking I'll be happier when a situation changes.

Thanks, Summer, much appreciated. :)

I totally agree with you (:eek:), we have to address our shortcomings and try to attain and maintain personal happiness and contentment through ourselves, before even thinking about marriage, rather than expecting our future spouses to come complete a miracle cure from life's problem. Talk about an unrealistic expectation!!

[Al-Farooq]

I might be using this post to run an extortion racket with Al Farooq as the tennis ball.


muahahahaha.


:D:D

Nothing there my wife doesn't know already!! :D

Do your worst!! :up:

[Medievalist]

dont try double bluffing me, grandad. now hand over yer wallet :buttkick:

[insomniac]

that's right brothers, attack the entire muslim female population for this miniscule trend....

Bro Mujib your comments seem a tad bit immature and quite possibly offensive to people too. Actually I'm offended!


I dont think there family know of reason..maybe the sisters are darkies and want whities so they can have white kids....just a thought...you never know!

[-Shamil-]

Soo agreed. I've seen this soo many times in my own community.. The paler the skin the quicker she's married. If you're darker, than forget it.

.

what does that mean?

[muhammed_1428]

what does that mean?

it unfortunately means that for some reason males and females with fairer skin are for some reason automatically more attractive...

Kinda silly if u ask me

black white brown yellow red blue green (ok too many colours.. green? :p )

end of the day, if brother specifies white, its nto right, if sister specifices white, its still not right.

Muslimeen are Muslimeen

can we start paying a bit more attention to our beloved rusool's (SAW) last sermon?

[-Shamil-]

:confused:that's right brothers, attack the entire muslim female population for this miniscule trend....

Bro Mujib your comments seem a tad bit immature :(


whos' attacking whom now?

[insomniac]

:confused:


whos' attacking whom now?


see edited post above and you might see what I mean

[ibn suleman]

does it matter?

if the person has a preference and u dont fit it, then ur most likely not gonna cross paths anyway...

make dua for them and move on...


it only becomes racism when they think x is superior/better...

in which case u wudnt wanna marry a racist person anyway...so either way it doesnt matter :p

[-Shamil-]

see edited post above and you might see what I mean

bro mujib was joking with his talk of "darkies"

[Al-Farooq]

dont try double bluffing me, grandad. now hand over yer wallet :buttkick:

:rotfl:

Fair cop, guvna. *hands over wallet*

You know me too well, Med. ;):D

[Rosalie-Beauty]

I've seen this alot too, although I have to agree with the sis that stated that its more common among men. We get alot of single, white, female reverts comming into community every year (Alhumdulillah). In less than a year or sometimes less their married off, 80% of the time to a Morrocan (not that it matters) But the point is that some of these men have been waiting a while to get married and there are plenty of single, non-white women mopping around waiting to get married.
Its a bit sad, and its becoming common among the women too. Some women I think, want a white dude 'cause they want fair children (what is this the Victorian age?) and 'cause they like the culture in a western country and believe that a white husband would better understand their lifestyle than if they married someone from back home. And then there is the cultural baggage mentioned earlier.

For whatever reason though, its utterly silly. Olive-toned people are beautiful, with myself as the exception :p

[ImaanSeeker]

There is a difference between preference and racism.

[HiBiScUs]

The white bros are welcome to them, in fact we should encourage it. Then we men can get the much better looking white sisters!


:rubeyes: this is a joke right???

[Rosalie-Beauty]

:rubeyes: this is a joke right???

yeah I mean if your aiming for sarcasm, it really didn't go over well.

Please learn how to use satrical remarks before publicly displaying them. :torture:

[foxxyliscious]

:salams

nothing wrong with preference.. i like blonde and blue eyed.:o



Yours Faithfully

Threader, Waxer, Hair dyer, shameem,kareem, abdul haleem, cosmetic guru - H-Network - :torture:

You can Call me Foxxyy for short -

[Abu Mus'ab]

:rubeyes: this is a joke right???
no, he's serious.

[Abu Mus'ab]

:salams

nothing wrong with preference.. i like blonde and blue eyed.:o



Yours Faithfully

Threader, Waxer, Hair dyer, shameem,kareem, abdul haleem, cosmetic guru - H-Network - :torture:

You can Call me Foxxyy for short -
were you banned? :eek3:

[Abu Mus'ab]

It's not just sisters. There are brothers that prefer "white" women. But perhaps not as many? Although there are more women in the world so maybe it's not a relevant comparison.
oi oi it's more the other way around, just look at the thread "would you marry a christian or a jew" see how many males are falling over their feet trying to make it permissable to marry all sorts of kuffaar, and you'll see them speaking in there about "white women"

[Mujib]

that's right brothers, attack the entire muslim female population for this miniscule trend....

Bro Mujib your comments seem a tad bit immature and quite possibly offensive to people too. Actually I'm offended!

You need to make your mind up if your offended or not...Your first sentence you said THATS RIGHT ATTACK THS SISTERS, then your last one you said your offended...I think your gona a bit dulally

:confused:

whos' attacking whom now?

WELL SAID!

[.: Anna :.]

Mujib, your comment was offensive and quite rude & if I was you I would quit dragging out the argument unless you would like some infractions for the behaviour

[Abu Mus'ab]

does it matter?

if the person has a preference and u dont fit it, then ur most likely not gonna cross paths anyway...

make dua for them and move on...


it only becomes racism when they think x is superior/better...

in which case u wudnt wanna marry a racist person anyway...so either way it doesnt matter :p
You really do say some sensible things at times :up:

That's not to say the rest of the time you speak unsensible things :nono:

[Mujib]

Mujib, your comment was offensive and quite rude & if I was you I would quit dragging out the argument unless you would like some infractions for the behaviour

I've been told!

No infractions please. I apologise to everyone I have offended, It was only a joke. :up:

[Abu Mus'ab]

I've been told!

No infractions please. I apologise to everyone I have offended, It was only a joke. :up:
Well in the future just remember that such 'jokes' are not tolerated.

[Ebony]

:scratch:

[Abu Mus'ab]

:scratch:
There's nothing to see here, it's been taken care of already :nono:

[-Shamil-]

There's nothing to see here, it's been taken care of already :nono:

what'd i miss?

mujib neing a naughty boy again?

[`asiya]

I'd particularly like the sisters to reply, I'm sure the brothers here will know where I come from with this. It's funny at how men get criticised or looked at in a shallow way because of the stereotype that men really only focus on the looks of a woman when deciding to marry her or not. There's a new fashion for Muslim sisters now that is rarely talked about in public, but often among Muslim brothers. They want a revert for marriage; which can be understood because they don't want the cultural baggage certain ethnic background families could bring, but the downside to that is they're exclusive to this. What is to say that, if your Pakistani, that you cant find a Pakistani brother whose family do not care what country or what tribe you are from as long as your a good Muslim? So why not just state that you prefer reverts but are willing to atleast consider good proposals from men from your own ethnic background?

To make things more complicated, they usually want these reverted brothers to be specifically white. Again, its exclusive and never a 'preference'. There are sisters who you come across, either directly or indirectly, that only show interest or ask for specifically "a revert who is white".

Why not just say revert, or is there a particular attraction that Muslim women have to white men? If so that's fine but why is it that, almost every single request regarding a revert, he has to be white for her to consider? Is it some sort of attraction that has overtaken the Muslim world, is it discrimination or even dare I say racism?

Men can say "I like Lebanese/Syrian/Arab" women, and to me that is very different to saying "I only want a black/white woman". This isn't about specifying your preference, but the very fact that people will not even call it a preference - it's a non flexible demand suggesting that they will not consider anyone else from a different colour regardless of their characteristics.




well this brings back memories of the first thread i saw here at ummah forum which made me join up originally as " ur sister " cos i felt like what the heck is this! am i not a part of this ummah too :confused:

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79683

theres about another 4 threads here about how people only want to marry from their own culture and race ( which didnt include white reverts in fact many ppl said outright they would never marry a white person or someone outside of their culture, and nor would their families allow them too ) and everyone told me its "only a preference" its not racisim.. so i guess the best we can say is at least this will redress that balance now for the white brothers who are rejected purely on the basis that they are white and reverts wa Allahu alam.

[neelu]

I've been meaning to ask you Asiya; would you marry a brother who was exclusively seeking to marry a 'white revert' and wouldn't consider marrying a sister of any other nationality?

[Mujib]

what'd i miss?

mujib neing a naughty boy again?

Yeh supposedly

Well in the future just remember that such 'jokes' are not tolerated.

Okaaaaay

[`asiya]

I've been meaning to ask you Asiya; would you marry a brother who was exclusively seeking to marry a 'white revert' and wouldn't consider marrying a sister of any other nationality?

err well if he was only seeking a "white revert and if he was white himself, i might wonder if he has problems with ppl of other races what about a black chinese or any other revert.. and as i have mixed race sons that would be a problem for me if he did only want a "white one" i cant be doing with all that and anyway i go brown in the sun :p

just a couple of days ago a sister in london phoned me up her freind is looking for a "white revert" wife for her brother, turns out his first wife is in africa and he has "no papers" to stay in the country ...

a couple of proposals before that the brother wanted to marry "a white revert" too went to speak with him, with my sons seemed like a very nice brother, and after all the talks, and how my sons needed a father figure and how i needed a good muslim father for them he told me he had to return to bangladesh for 3 months and upon his return we would marry then the last thing he said to me was " and we get married in masjid with papers yes " i said no...i will never marry in the law.. i never heard from him again..:smack: so who knows ukhti...

my first marriage my husband wanted to marry a revert.. 6 months after nikkah when he finished uni,he insisted i must marry him in the law, soon as he did that he had a personality transplant, i was supposed to pay for everything and support him while he filled his bank account..and if i got pregnant i was supposed to have an abortion, apparently as a "western woman" i should have been used to that. needless to say the marriage didnt last long and when it broke up he tried to bribe me with £6000 to lie to immigration and say we were still married so as not to null the chances of his british passport..

in my experience theres sometimes more to it, so Allahu alam would have to see about the individual case because in my experience those who single out a particular race and only want someone of that race and im going to stick my neck out here and say this.. but they may not have properly understood a portion of islam..wa Allahu alam.

[muslimahk]

As salaam alaykum,

Ive read this thread and there are a few points evident.
1) Many people believe someone saying they wish to marry a white revert is racist.
2) That some believe it is more immodest for a sister to say this kind of thing.
3) That choosing a partner shouldnt be based entirely on looks.

If possible Id like to raise a point.

Nikkah has many functions but Im hoping most people will agree with me here that nikkah is the only halal way that we as muslims can fulfill certain desires. There are other functions like raising muslim children etc but we wont get into it.

Now if nikkah is based on fulfilling these desires people are going to be attracted to different types of people. And this may simply not be something they can help.

Now take a sister who has met an incredibly pious brother who fits all her criteria but she simply doesnt find him attractive. There may be the odd sister that is so pious that she can compromise on this and marry the brother.

But the vast majority of us have very weak imaans and we need to have attraction or chemistry towards our partners. What use is it for a sister to marry a brother that she cannot do justice to because she doesnt find him attractive?

This sister ends up marrying a brother and could be in a far worse situation because not only is she not lowering her gaze as beforehand but she cannot fulfill the rights of her husband??? Should she then have got married in the first place?

In such situations as these perhaps the slight racism could be allowed. But that isnt to say that that sister may not possibly find a brother that isnt white attractive. So she should still keep her options open.

The last thing Id like to say here is that I know some brothers find it off putting and immodest to even contemplate that sisters may have such preferences. Brothers, you must realise that when you are looking for a partner youre looking at looks because you have to feel attracted to your spouse.

Now it is true that brothers in general have stronger desires than sisters. But it doesnt mean sisters dont have desires as well. That needs to be remembered.

I am now moving off my soapbox.
ma salaama

[Pippin1376]

Now take a sister who has met an incredibly pious brother who fits all her criteria but she simply doesnt find him attractive. There may be the odd sister that is so pious that she can compromise on this and marry the brother.
I'm a firm believer that you need attraction in a marriage. If I'm not attracted to you, I don't want you to be near me, therefore, the marriage wouldn't work. If you find white people to be attractive then alhamdullilah, it is your preference. However, to single yourself to only that race and refuse anyone else is stupid. Basically you are saying white is better than any other race. This is the same if you only want a black person and no one else.

Have your preferences, but don't let that determine your marriage or your life. If I'm attracted to white people, that should stop me from meeting other brothers who are black, purple, yellow, blue, green, etc... for the prospect of marriage. I might find they too are attractive, you never know.

I don't understand the attraction to skin colour personally, maybe if I did this would make more sense. Skin colour doesn't really determine someone's beauty, there are other things to worry about.

[Russo]

As salaam alaykum,

Ive read this thread and there are a few points evident.
1) Many people believe someone saying they wish to marry a white revert is racist.
2) That some believe it is more immodest for a sister to say this kind of thing.
3) That choosing a partner shouldnt be based entirely on looks.

If possible Id like to raise a point.

Nikkah has many functions but Im hoping most people will agree with me here that nikkah is the only halal way that we as muslims can fulfill certain desires. There are other functions like raising muslim children etc but we wont get into it.

Now if nikkah is based on fulfilling these desires people are going to be attracted to different types of people. And this may simply not be something they can help.

Now take a sister who has met an incredibly pious brother who fits all her criteria but she simply doesnt find him attractive. There may be the odd sister that is so pious that she can compromise on this and marry the brother.

But the vast majority of us have very weak imaans and we need to have attraction or chemistry towards our partners. What use is it for a sister to marry a brother that she cannot do justice to because she doesnt find him attractive?

This sister ends up marrying a brother and could be in a far worse situation because not only is she not lowering her gaze as beforehand but she cannot fulfill the rights of her husband??? Should she then have got married in the first place?

In such situations as these perhaps the slight racism could be allowed. But that isnt to say that that sister may not possibly find a brother that isnt white attractive. So she should still keep her options open.

The last thing Id like to say here is that I know some brothers find it off putting and immodest to even contemplate that sisters may have such preferences. Brothers, you must realise that when you are looking for a partner youre looking at looks because you have to feel attracted to your spouse.

Now it is true that brothers in general have stronger desires than sisters. But it doesnt mean sisters dont have desires as well. That needs to be remembered.

I am now moving off my soapbox.
ma salaama


I was going to say something along the same lines but muslimahk has stated it very well that I dont feel I need to comment! :up:

[طلحة الشمالي]

Whats the problem here?

Women are entitled to marry a man which they desire or are they not?
They can put down anything as a requirement.

The same for a man! whats all this controversy

This is nothing to do with MTV or tv or radio or games or magazines or anything its just a simple preference.

What is the problem people? no one is saying white Muslim reverts are better than Asian Muslim borns? its just a preference. some women or men like there spouses to be a certain way ?

Islamically if you know before marriage that you are attracted to certain features in a person you must secure a spouse who fits those features to safe guard ones chastity.

[Mujib]

As salaam alaykum,

Ive read this thread and there are a few points evident.
1) Many people believe someone saying they wish to marry a white revert is racist.
2) That some believe it is more immodest for a sister to say this kind of thing.
3) That choosing a partner shouldnt be based entirely on looks.

If possible Id like to raise a point.

Nikkah has many functions but Im hoping most people will agree with me here that nikkah is the only halal way that we as muslims can fulfill certain desires. There are other functions like raising muslim children etc but we wont get into it.

Now if nikkah is based on fulfilling these desires people are going to be attracted to different types of people. And this may simply not be something they can help.

Now take a sister who has met an incredibly pious brother who fits all her criteria but she simply doesnt find him attractive. There may be the odd sister that is so pious that she can compromise on this and marry the brother.

But the vast majority of us have very weak imaans and we need to have attraction or chemistry towards our partners. What use is it for a sister to marry a brother that she cannot do justice to because she doesnt find him attractive?

This sister ends up marrying a brother and could be in a far worse situation because not only is she not lowering her gaze as beforehand but she cannot fulfill the rights of her husband??? Should she then have got married in the first place?

In such situations as these perhaps the slight racism could be allowed. But that isnt to say that that sister may not possibly find a brother that isnt white attractive. So she should still keep her options open.

The last thing Id like to say here is that I know some brothers find it off putting and immodest to even contemplate that sisters may have such preferences. Brothers, you must realise that when you are looking for a partner youre looking at looks because you have to feel attracted to your spouse.

Now it is true that brothers in general have stronger desires than sisters. But it doesnt mean sisters dont have desires as well. That needs to be remembered.

I am now moving off my soapbox.
ma salaama

Very good post
There is no harm in sisters that have desires...If they like a brother who is white then so be it, if brothers like sisters who are white then so be it, At the end of the day its all about preference, and attraction does play a HUGE part in marriage. I know lots of brothers who have met sisters that are very pious and fit the bill etc etc but they have not gone ahead with it due to looks, a bit petty but its how ppl think, its there instinct. May we all find ourselves great PIOUS and BEAUTIFUL partners inshallah, except the married people of course!

[OBL]

May we all find ourselves great pious and BEAUTIFUL partners inshallah, except the married people of course!

is there a reason why you got Beautiful written in capital and not pious?

[Mujib]

is there a reason why you got Beautiful written in capital and not pious?

Sorry what was that?

[neelu]

is there a reason why you got Beautiful written in capital and not pious?

Because he has to emphasize how shallow some people's requirements are:p

[Mujib]

Because he has to emphasize how shallow some people's requirements are:p

LOL...well I thought this thread was more about beauty rather than pious, hence the capital BEAUTIFUL. We all have a shallow side.

[Lovetolaugh]

I'd particularly like the sisters to reply, I'm sure the brothers here will know where I come from with this. It's funny at how men get criticised or looked at in a shallow way because of the stereotype that men really only focus on the looks of a woman when deciding to marry her or not. There's a new fashion for Muslim sisters now that is rarely talked about in public, but often among Muslim brothers. They want a revert for marriage; which can be understood because they don't want the cultural baggage certain ethnic background families could bring, but the downside to that is they're exclusive to this. What is to say that, if your Pakistani, that you cant find a Pakistani brother whose family do not care what country or what tribe you are from as long as your a good Muslim? So why not just state that you prefer reverts but are willing to atleast consider good proposals from men from your own ethnic background?

To make things more complicated, they usually want these reverted brothers to be specifically white. Again, its exclusive and never a 'preference'. There are sisters who you come across, either directly or indirectly, that only show interest or ask for specifically "a revert who is white".

Why not just say revert, or is there a particular attraction that Muslim women have to white men? If so that's fine but why is it that, almost every single request regarding a revert, he has to be white for her to consider? Is it some sort of attraction that has overtaken the Muslim world, is it discrimination or even dare I say racism?

Men can say "I like Lebanese/Syrian/Arab" women, and to me that is very different to saying "I only want a black/white woman". This isn't about specifying your preference, but the very fact that people will not even call it a preference - it's a non flexible demand suggesting that they will not consider anyone else from a different colour regardless of their characteristics.






For me, attraction is important in a marriage and people should be allowed to marry whoever they want if there mutual feelings. Most people are attracted to their owns so not suprised by the Leb/Syrian/Arab...the person must be from the Near-East. Most men are attracted to the lightest/fairest skin within their own community and sometimes they go cross the rainbow.

For the women, it is probably deeper than the skin color. Women are generally (and not all) less visual and less fussy about background and skin color. For a sister, wht's at the core is a man's height and if he has muscles and isn't fat. No woman will be attracted to a fat man so brother get to the gym and stop worrying about the rest.

These sis looking for white men may see some advantages in marrying these reverts even if these things are generalizations.

-For those who are practicing, the bad "cultural" traits are abandonned when they abandonned kufr. Drinking wine is part of European culture but these Muslims choosing Islam cannot keep drinking and become Muslims (there may some who have trouble leaving the habits but most come clean). There are probably other bad cultural sides that are also lost in the process of choosing Islam.

-For White converts, the family is not invading. Muslims often reproach to Noth-American/European societies to be too selfish and centered on the individual and not the family. But giving importance to the individual has given people both responsibility and rights and that's something positive for a daughter/son in law.

[Rasema2008]

I'd particularly like the sisters to reply, I'm sure the brothers here will know where I come from with this. It's funny at how men get criticised or looked at in a shallow way because of the stereotype that men really only focus on the looks of a woman when deciding to marry her or not. There's a new fashion for Muslim sisters now that is rarely talked about in public, but often among Muslim brothers. They want a revert for marriage; which can be understood because they don't want the cultural baggage certain ethnic background families could bring, but the downside to that is they're exclusive to this. What is to say that, if your Pakistani, that you cant find a Pakistani brother whose family do not care what country or what tribe you are from as long as your a good Muslim? So why not just state that you prefer reverts but are willing to atleast consider good proposals from men from your own ethnic background?

To make things more complicated, they usually want these reverted brothers to be specifically white. Again, its exclusive and never a 'preference'. There are sisters who you come across, either directly or indirectly, that only show interest or ask for specifically "a revert who is white".

Why not just say revert, or is there a particular attraction that Muslim women have to white men? If so that's fine but why is it that, almost every single request regarding a revert, he has to be white for her to consider? Is it some sort of attraction that has overtaken the Muslim world, is it discrimination or even dare I say racism?

Men can say "I like Lebanese/Syrian/Arab" women, and to me that is very different to saying "I only want a black/white woman". This isn't about specifying your preference, but the very fact that people will not even call it a preference - it's a non flexible demand suggesting that they will not consider anyone else from a different colour regardless of their characteristics.




Eselam un Alejkum, wellllllllllllllllllll.....let me see if I can help you.... I am actually a white muslim woman, and I have seen the opposite happen. I have seen men of colour (Arab, etc.) to say they like white women over their own, which I didn't believe at first, but then started seeing it more and more. But then I came to the realization, that just because they are white, didn't mean that's the only reason they are interested in them. They say that certain muslim women who are white, are more easy going, have that "different" look but still are muslim. I'm gonna say that women might think the same about white men, I'm not exactly sure, I definitely don't speak for all women...but when it comes to me, I don't prefer one race to the other, and I could be attracted to a white blue eyed man or an arab. Just because a woman might prefer a "certain" look, doesn't mean that is all we look for... Hope I didn't raise too many questions, and was able to help ;)

[.: Anna :.]

-For White converts, the family is not invading. Muslims often reproach to Noth-American/European societies to be too selfish and centered on the individual and not the family. But giving importance to the individual has given people both responsibility and rights and that's something positive for a daughter/son in law.

I don't think its necessarily true about the family, because people with non Muslim or non practising in-laws can also find that quite difficult. there are different issues which arise. people should not think that bc the spouse is a revert and family are non Muslim that they wont have to deal with those people at all... you still need to keep ties with them, and still are family, you can't cut them off. So the presumption that people have about marry a revert and u will not get any trouble with in-laws, it could be a bit niave. The problems which you might encounter will be different than with asians for example, but nevertheless there can be problems. I know of people who have experienced that...

[dhakiyya]

I agree with Anna..... VERY naive.... reverts with non Muslim family have an entirely different set of problems

just for examples... (these are examples based on the kinds of things reverts have to put up with, so pls don't respond like they're my problems specifically anyone :) but jazak Allah khayran in advance for caring :))

.........they invite, in fact almost beg, you to come round for Christmas day, and you know they'll be bitterly disappointed if yet again you don't come for Christmas, yet as soon as you say any words like "against my religion" or "in Islam..." it'll cause a huge family row...

............when you visit they treast you fine and respect your religion just fine until they get alcohol down their necks and then all the accusations of brainwashing, terrorism, insults against Allah and the Prophet :saw: come out....

.........all hell breaks loose in the extended family when you name your son Muhammad because now they can't pretend to the neighbours that you're "normal" and you only wear a headscarf cause you have allopecia......

[.: Anna :.]

Lol @ pretending cos they had allopecia :p
basically to sum it up, its like when the other parents want u to do things according to culture which is not part of islam.. its just the same with non muslim parents, they normally want you to fit into the culture, but its just that it is a dif culture than the asian one. even parents who are accepting and everything, issues like christmas its not something easy for them to understand, bc its emotional to them and they could be very hurt like dhakiyya mentioned.

[Arsalan]

Threads like this will never make sense to me especially when we were taught at school that the following:

The Ink is Black
The page is white
Together we learn to read and write
To read and write The board is black
The chalk is white
Together we learn to read and write
To read and write




Init..

[`asiya]

Threads like this will never make sense to me especially when we were taught at school that the following:

The Ink is Black
The page is white
Together we learn to read and write
To read and write The board is black
The chalk is white
Together we learn to read and write
To read and write




Init..

lol absolutely :up: havent heard that since i was about 5 years old

[Kal-El]

When it comes to attraction, the only requirement people have should be to be attracted to the potential spouse - specific requirements should be a preference. It is naive to believe that you wouldn't find someone out of those specific requirements (if he isn't 6 foot or muscular) attractive in your eye. Only teenage girls or frustrated women who've never had a crush want the 6 foot, dark, chiselled jaw, smile, eyes, hair, body, height and even voice. And that's on top of him being a Sheikh. People think they're in Pizza Hut and ordering something to take out. Regardless of what your specific preferences are, you shouldn't dismiss anyone - what would you lose if you saw a woman or a man who wasn't exactly what you dreamt of, yet as soon as you saw them, you became attracted to their natural beauty? Why would anyone intentionally rule that opportunity out?

But then again, people who are looking to get married should be mature and reasonably intelligent. Just because people are Muslim, it doesn't cover that they can also be extremely shallow and bimbo-like.

We live in a society in where everything in our media, in our entertainment, is based on people with model looks so this subconsciously becomes our own standards. I was talking to a friend in California, and on their bus trip in our conversation - advertisements of breast augmentations were everywhere, "35% off" "Now on Sale". It was like a blooming Asda Price advert. Women see what our men now fantasises about in these Vogue magazines of these, either plastic enhanced females or the rarest natural beauties on Earth, and feel insecure or ugly - so they try the make-up and even surgeries to raise/lower eye brows, cheekbones, thighs and now even buttocks. What next?

Stem Cell research methods have been legalised in which immoral doctors could start to offer potential parents designer babies because the technology now exists. Yes, you read right. Parents can come to a doctor and ask how they want their son/daughter to look like, their intelligence scope, their personality and even strength - all can be tailor designed and we can all see how the girls would be designed, doesn't take much effort to visualise millions of perfectly looking girls to make the rest who were natural feel yet even more insecure and desperate for some beautifying treatment.

And what's even sad is, how some can recognise or proclaim they'd marry a decent man with a good heart, yet are falling over themselves trying to get the model male to settle down and marry, but hes more interested in staying single so he can take his pick from the queue of women surely to form in his life. And another research stated that employees are more likely to employ the better looking candidate to get the job.

Look, people naturally want to be beautiful and be attractive - but there's a thin line in being blessed with looks and spreading a mental diet solely designed to try and find such beauty, either within ourselves or the ones we share our beds with. I've known many who were attractive/handsome, now stuck in a downward spiral of sin and hopelessness. Somewhere along the alcohol and numerous sex partners, they were lost forever - people see the attraction, pardon the pun, of a lifestyle of desire and lust, yet are always apologetic at the end. And what a shame too, those individuals were very charming and intelligent people, Muslims.

I don't know where I'm going with this, the social decadence and sexualisation of our society?

[Sister-Ameena*]

I agree with Anna..... VERY naive.... reverts with non Muslim family have an entirely different set of problems

just for examples... (these are examples based on the kinds of things reverts have to put up with, so pls don't respond like they're my problems specifically anyone :) but jazak Allah khayran in advance for caring :))

.........they invite, in fact almost beg, you to come round for Christmas day, and you know they'll be bitterly disappointed if yet again you don't come for Christmas, yet as soon as you say any words like "against my religion" or "in Islam..." it'll cause a huge family row...

............when you visit they treast you fine and respect your religion just fine until they get alcohol down their necks and then all the accusations of brainwashing, terrorism, insults against Allah and the Prophet :saw: come out....

.........all hell breaks loose in the extended family when you name your son Muhammad because now they can't pretend to the neighbours that you're "normal" and you only wear a headscarf cause you have allopecia......

:salams Lol @ allopecia. You hit the nail right on the head. It may be a preference, but it's a very idealistic preference that is mostly likely formed because of what people are influenced by in society. Everyone wants something different, white people tan to become darker, and black people use lightening creams to become lighter. Though that cannot be attributed to the ''preference'' of wanting to marry a revert. :rolleyes:

I've come across many sisters who literally CHASE after reverts whenever they see them at conventions. Why? Because they're apparently ''exotic''. Not once have they ever mentioned the fact that they want to marry a revert because since they've been convinced that Islaam is the correct and right religion and the religion to abide by. Not once! This comes from my own personal experience by the way, and not what all Muslimahs think Allah knows their intentions.

Reverts come with a lot of baggage. They all come from Non-Muslim families that do not support them, shun them, and are left homeless because of the fact that their families do not accept them.

Now, marry a revert if you want, that's your business but by just saying that you just want to marry a revert because it's a ''preference'' is just borderline racism imho.

[miss-islamic]

Whats the problem here?

Women are entitled to marry a man which they desire or are they not?
They can put down anything as a requirement.

The same for a man! whats all this controversy

This is nothing to do with MTV or tv or radio or games or magazines or anything its just a simple preference.

What is the problem people? no one is saying white Muslim reverts are better than Asian Muslim borns? its just a preference. some women or men like there spouses to be a certain way ?

Islamically if you know before marriage that you are attracted to certain features in a person you must secure a spouse who fits those features to safe guard ones chastity.

It does to an extent. When you only see one type of beauty ( i.e. white skin, blond hair, blue eyes) as we often see in ours, it's not very hard to easily slip into the mentality that it’s the only worthwhile one. The mentality already exists in fact -- "Fair and Lovely" zindabad! :p

[Basil al-Mamluk]

Reverts come with a lot of baggage. They all come from Non-Muslim families that do not support them, shun them, and are left homeless because of the fact that their families do not accept them.


I don't really know any reverts who have had this happen to them, myself included.

[`asiya]

I don't really know any reverts who have had this happen to them, myself included.

yep nor me Allahu alam may Allah help those ppl amin

[.: Anna :.]

^ aameen

yeah i was gonna say aswell that is a bit of a generalisation and over dramatisation.

[Tosh]

This thread presumes that we all look at a lot of people before making a choice on our preferences. "I prefer this kind of women or men" means that you been staring and checking to see what you like.

Take an individual on their merits. Recognise and be aware of cultural characteristics but be weary before applying to each person you come across.

[bint]

wise words tosh - well said!

[DHAYIBA]

SALAMU ALEIKUM WARAHMATULAHI WABARAKATU...

THIS IS A VERY INTERESTIN TOPIC REALLY JAZAKA ALLAH SISTER.... AND i honestly PREFERED A REVERT BROTHER SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE A VERY STRONG IMAN... N I SEE MY IMAN SAVED 2... BT WHEN IT COMES 2 RACE I PREFER A MIXED RACE BROTHER... OFCOURSE BLACK/WHITE BT ONLY ALLAH KWNS WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS INSHALLAH HOPE ITS FOR OUR BEST INTERESTS INSHALLAH...

MA'SALAMA

[Miss-Neurofen]

asian men are more attractive :up:... and an asian with good imaan is perfecto!!

[Miss-Neurofen]

im not racist btw lol

[Lovetolaugh]

I've come across many sisters who literally CHASE after reverts whenever they see them at conventions. Why? Because they're apparently ''exotic''.


Wow. If they have no shame they will do as they wish. Where is their self-esteem?


"I don't think its necessarily true about the family, because people with non Muslim or non practising in-laws can also find that quite difficult. there are different issues which arise. people should not think that bc the spouse is a revert and family are non Muslim that they wont have to deal with those people at all... you still need to keep ties with them, and still are family, you can't cut them off. So the presumption that people have about marry a revert and u will not get any trouble with in-laws, it could be a bit niave."



Sis, I am not naive but just comparing to some born Muslim families...actually, in my own community it is not that bad and inlaws stay within some boundaries but there are some Muslim communities that are difficult and scary-the D in law becomes some sort of servant and has to live with extended family.

You misunderstood me, I didn't mean reverts cut ties with their families. No good Muslim would ever do that. My impression/knowledge of the West is that parents have greater respect for thier children choice when marrying. And maybe I am being ignorant here as I don't know many reverts (and their cases are special) but in the mainstream Western society (Non-Muslims) people are used to nuclear families (husband & wife +children) and inlaws don't push the door in and enter.

Yes I forgot about the haram/halal drink/food issues and the dreaded Christmas for the new Muslims.


Also, I wasn't talking about me and I never chased a revert...the opposite is true: I refused a White revert my friends wanted to set me up. With all do respect, white doesn't mean handsome in my book. I was merely trying to understand the sisters and their reason as I dont believe all of them are choosing based on skin color.


To the other sisters: I am new here so dont believe that because I reply to a topic, I am living the exact same issue. I replied also to another heated debate last month and I know people imagined the issue was personal. Let's say I am being not the devil's advocate but the absents' advocate.

[Miss-Neurofen]

[QUOTE=Lovetolaugh;2631881]white doesn't mean handsome in my book. [QUOTE]


I completely agree!!!

[.: Anna :.]

btw brothers and sisters we don't all want to know what are your preferences, so people who are thinking of telling "i like white brothers" "i like asian sisters" or whatever, please keep it to yourself its a bit lacking in hayaa to chat like this, and unnecessary.

[Norton360]

whatever happened to tall, dark and handsome?? skin whitening cream anyone?;)

Its such a shame that people equate beauty with fair skinned people. Isnt this notion bordering on discrimination?. I Come from an asian background (Bangladeshi) to be precise and It really annoys me when I hear of this silly infatuation that Bengalis (perhaps just our elders) have with "fair" skin! It's fine if a person prefers fair skin as opposed to dark skin (or vice versa) cos that's down to their personal taste, and it's their decision. Everyones entitled to their own opinion about who they marry or prefer.

But what I find a little off-key is when some asian elders/aunties think that "so and so would make a lovely bride cos shes sooo fair!, but "not the other one cos shes too dark". I just don't like it when a potential brides suitability is dimissed JUST because of her skin shade. Obviously an individual is perfectly within their rights to have a preference for themselves, but what I don't like is the generic bengali attitude towards darker people. I find it very backwards.

However, I may be clutching on straws here but is it possible that this infatuation with fair skinned people is that all the inhabitants of Jannah will be so radiant with "nur" and light and this will not appear dark?! hence the preferance of fair skinned people over dark skinned people?

N

[MMS]

i dunno what all the fuss is about, it depends how buff the person is, n theres buff people in all races so like what u all whining about ya bunch of drama queens :nono:

[`asiya]

can we not reduce this thread to hating on the white brothers and sisters please, the gori have feelings too u know.

[Omar]

Pakis r so outta order :(

[.: Anna :.]

can we not reduce this thread to hating on the white brothers and sisters please, the gori have feelings too u know.

sis i dnt think ne1 is doing that?

[Norton360]

sister Asiya I'm not sure who you were reffering to, but if its from my comment then I can sincerely state that it was not my intention to offend anyone (apart from backward minded Bengali elders- who need to change their ways!)

[Lovetolaugh]

[QUOTE=Lovetolaugh;2631881]white doesn't mean handsome in my book. [QUOTE]


I completely agree!!!



Well skin color is not all. Symetrical facial features are the best asset for the face. Also, I didn't mean to say that Whites aren't beautiful/handsome. I mean you need to know more about a person before giving them an A+ on physical appearance.

[Convert]

I don't really know any reverts who have had this happen to them, myself included.It happened to me.

My wife of many years had me kicked and divorced me. My children were mad at me, And my boss got me fired since 9/11 was a recent event.

[`asiya]

It happened to me.

My wife of many years had me kicked and divorced me. My children were mad at me, And my boss got me fired since 9/11 was a recent event.

alhamdulillah u remained firm on your deen despite all those difficulties subhanAllah ..

surah 29 Al-'Ankabût

In the Name of Allâh, the Most
Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

1. Alif*Lâm*Mîm.

[These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'ân, and none but Allâh (Alone) knows their meanings.]

2. Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: "We believe," and will not be tested.

3. And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allâh will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars, (although Allâh knows all that before putting them to test).

4. Or those who do evil deeds think that they can outstrip Us (i.e. escape Our Punishment)? Evil is that which they judge!

5. Whoever hopes for the Meeting with Allâh, then Allâh's Term is surely coming. and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.

6. And whosoever strives, he strives only for himself. Verily, Allâh is free of all wants from the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinns, and all that exists).

7. Those who believe [in the Oneness of Allâh (Monotheism) and in Messenger Muhammad SAW , and do not apostate because of the harm they receive from the polytheists], and do righteous good deeds, surely, We shall remit from them their evil deeds and shall reward them according to the best of that which they used to do.

8. And We have enjoined on man to be good and dutiful to his parents, but if they strive to make you join with Me (in worship) anything (as a partner) of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not. Unto Me is your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do.

9. And for those who believe (in the Oneness of Allâh and other items of Faith) and do righteous good deeds, surely, We shall make them enter in (the enterance of) the righteous (i.e. in Paradise).

10. Of mankind are some who say: "We believe in Allâh," but if they are made to suffer for the sake of Allâh, they consider the trial of mankind as Allâh's punishment, and if victory comes from your Lord, (the hypocrites) will say: "Verily! We were with you (helping you)." Is not Allâh Best Aware of what is in the breast of the 'Alamîn (mankind and jinns).

11. Verily, Allâh knows those who believe, and verily, He knows the hypocrites [i.e. Allâh will test the people with good and hard days to discriminate the good from the wicked (although Allâh knows all that before putting them to test)].

may Allah ta ala keep u firmly on the haq amin!

[Convert]

Thank You Asiya. That brought a tear to my eyes

[`asiya]

Thank You Asiya. That brought a tear to my eyes

alhamdulillah, stay firm akhi even if it feels like the whole world is against u, know that Allah ta ala will never ever let u down

" But if they turn away, say: "Allah suffices to me: there is no god but He: in Him I put my trust. He is the Supreme Lord of the throne of glory!"

surah At-Tawbah 9:129


If Allâh helps you, none can overcome you; and if He forsakes you, who is there after Him that can help you? And in Allâh (Alone) let believers put their trust.

surah al imran 3:160.


Say: "Nothing shall ever happen to us except what Allâh has ordained for us. He is our Maulâ (Lord, Helper and Protector)." And in Allâh let the believers put their trust.

surah At-Taubah 9:51


The believers are only those who, when Allâh is mentioned, feel a fear in their hearts and when His Verses (this Qur'ân) are recited unto them, they (i.e. the Verses) increase their Faith; and they put their trust in their Lord (Alone);

Who perform As-Salât (Iqâmat*as*Salât) and spend out of that We have provided them.

It is they who are the believers in truth. For them are grades of dignity with their Lord, and Forgiveness and a generous provision (Paradise).

Surah Al-Anfâl 8:2-4

So whatever you have been given is but a passing enjoyment for this worldly life, but that which is with Allâh (Paradise) is better and more lasting for those who believe (in the Oneness of Allâh Islâmic Monotheism) and put their trust in their Lord (concerning all of their affairs).

surah 42. Ash-Shûra : 36



may Allah keep u firm and enter u to al jannah amin

[Sister-Ameena*]

:salams

^ aameen

yeah i was gonna say aswell that is a bit of a generalisation and over dramatisation.

Well, I don't think it is because I've come across many reverts to whom that has happened to. :)

sis i dnt think ne1 is doing that?

I agree. No one in this thread has done that, this topic is about women personally seeking out white reverts and saying that they want to marry them.

Convert, may Allaah ease your affairs inshaaAllaah.

[Pippin1376]

But what I find a little off-key is when some asian elders/aunties think that "so and so would make a lovely bride cos shes sooo fair!, but "not the other one cos shes too dark". I just don't like it when a potential brides suitability is dimissed JUST because of her skin shade. Obviously an individual is perfectly within their rights to have a preference for themselves, but what I don't like is the generic bengali attitude towards darker people. I find it very backwards.

Well it all comes down to history. Back in the day (even early Egyptians) if you were dark, that meant you were poor and you were a worker. If you had fair skin, that meant that you were wealthy and, therefore, didn't tan because you didn't go outside.

[Enigma Dreamer]

I see no harm in someone preferring white, black or brown etc. It is fine and people do tend to have preference. Now, this should be just preference and to me, this is no indicator of superiority, rather what is perceived as physical beauty. Seen people who see black women as beautiful, some see the whites to beautiful, some brown... it is upto the person and what one finds it cool. It is fine if one sees black/whit/brown etc as more beautiful than the other as long as you don't say to your wife they are more beautiful than her.