Confused and searching for help.

[LukinForAnswers]

First of all, Hello all, and thanks for looking into this thread. To help understand the situation, I guess a little background information is needed, so...

I am currently 18 years old, Please do not stop reading at this, and am atheist. I was raised in a household that claims to be christian, yet never attends church, prays, or shows faith in any way. When younger, I was forced to attend church and Sunday school. For years, I enjoyed doing so, and actually had faith, but slowly I noticed how the people of the church always had "dual personalities" I guess you would say. Acting one way Sunday morning, and perhaps even Wednsday night, but then changing the moment they left church. I even noticed this in the leaders of the church. Noticing this, I hoped that it was merely a bad church, and changed to another, that I had heard so much good for from kids at school. After attending this church, I noticed the same thing, so yet again, I moved to another church. At this other, It was the worst I had seen yet. After those experiences, I lost faith in anything other then myself, and my family and friends.

Even though I am this way, and do not believe, I never try and change others beliefs, and support them in their beliefs. I feel that it is not up to me to make that choice for others, and they need to find their own path.

Well, Thats enough for this post I guess, but anyway, the reason I am here is that I have come to love a very dear friend of mine, and after many long talks, I know she feels the same for me. The only problem is that she is muslim. We eventually turned to the subject of marriage, and how we wish it could be different. Well, later she told me that we both believe in "Logic", and that this was enough for her.

I really care for her, and feel torn on this subject, for I do not want her to have to do something against her faith. I know that she had to feel even more torn about it then I do, having to choose between love and religion. I really want to marry her, but I would like to do so in a way that is fair to her I guess one would say. I have thought about learning about Islam, and trying to convert for her, if it is even possible to convert from being atheist. I know that I could learn about it, and even lead a lifestyle that is expected. Im just not sure I could ever actually Believe. I dont know if that would be even worse then just not even trying to change my ways.

Im sooo confused, and they only thing that I am certin of, is that I want to spend the rest of my life with her no matter the cost. I would like to ask everyone that reads this what they think of the situation, and what advice they have for me. I expect alot to say I should just leave her be, or some other negative responce, but that is out of the question, for I could never forget her.

Also, Sorry for making all the seperate paragraphs, but i know many will not read a post that is a single wall of text, and im hopping this helps. Sorry for the horrible grammer and spelling and all that as well ^_^

[carol_au]

The really nice thing is that you say you believe in logic.. which is a great place to start..

My suggestion is .. why not seriously look into Islam You say you had faith as a child, despite not having much encouragement either at home or in the family.. yet you still persevered despite it all. Circumstances led you to now call yourself an atheist, but you say you have logic.

You are a non muslim and you cannot marry this girl.. not at the moment. Why not however focus not on that.. but on the faith she was raised in and look into it for yourself. The door is not totally closed if you are serious about looking into her religion.. it's what we call intention.

You seem very sincere, so please look into her faith and see what it might offer you God willing.

Seriously seek for answers to the "whys" of life and you may be surprised at what it will offer you.

Question yes.. but question with a desire to understand and not just learn about it. I can say that, because I came to this forum as a non muslim.. even as a strong Christian.. yet that attitude to learn and understand helped me come to see that infact Islam was what my heart had cried out for for many years.. and only in Islam am I now completely satisfied..

My prayer is you will find the same.. and then your dilemma with this girl will be overcome completely.. and you will ADD something to her faith and not change it.

Start off learning.. seeking to understand .. it may surprise you what you learn.

[Awaaz]

Being a Muslim, I would suggest you to explore and learn Islam. Difficulties always arise in the path of truth, but that's just for a certain period of time. For long term, you will have many benefits. And when one tightens the rope of Allah, nothing in this world can harm him/her.

Take your own time and then reach to a conclusion!

[AbuMubarak]

i will assume this is an authentic post and refrain from commenting

[LukinForAnswers]

i will assume this is an authentic post and refrain from commenting

Not really sure what you mean by that :confused:

[RashidD]

I would advise that you learn Islam, but you should learn with an open heart. A glass turned upside down won't catch any water, so you should look at it from the perspective of learning text and sources - rather than learning about people/ lifestyle.

What i mean is that you should go through the authentic sources and try to learn from there. Btw, have you ever read the Qur'an?

[`asiya]

welcome to the forum, as said above the best thing u can do is to take a look at Islam, u dont have anything to loose, and who knows sometimes someone comes into your life and your path changes direction and who knows where it might lead. i totally understand what your saying about the church, and dual personalities.. because their religion is separate from their daily lives its something for sundays and easter and christmas, when someone is born or dies ..but beyond that many leave it at the church door, but for us as muslims we call that hypocrisy, and for the same reasons as u have mentioned i began to take a much closer and in depth look at things. u could make a start here http://www.islam-guide.com/ and your love of logic wont be disappointed :up:

[AbuMubarak]

Not really sure what you mean by that :confused:

i dont take too kindly to atheists "dating" muslim sisters but like i said, i will stay silent, because i am not the best person for you to be speaking to

[LukinForAnswers]

i dont take too kindly to atheists "dating" muslim sisters but like i said, i will stay silent, because i am not the best person for you to be speaking to

Ah, I understand now, and I am thankful for how you responded. Im not sure if it makes it any better or not, but we have not actually "dated", atleast not in the way that I normally use, or hear the term used.

u could make a start here http://www.islam-guide.com/ and your love of logic wont be disappointed

And thanks asyia. Ive only ready the first of three chapters so far... And some of the stuff stated so far is extremely remarkable. I will finish it ASAP, and hope the rest is as good a read as the beginning.

[`asiya]

Ah, I understand now, and I am thankful for how you responded. Im not sure if it makes it any better or not, but we have not actually "dated", atleast not in the way that I normally use, or hear the term used.



And thanks asyia. Ive only ready the first of three chapters so far... And some of the stuff stated so far is extremely remarkable. I will finish it ASAP, and hope the rest is as good a read as the beginning.

good to hear that :up: youre welcome, if u have any questions or want to know more just let ask away

[LukinForAnswers]

good to hear that :up: youre welcome, if u have any questions or want to know more just let ask away

I would like to get a translation of the quran in english... Is there a specific translation that i should look for, or all of them pretty much the same in accuracy? And I would just look at any bookstore im thinking, or would i need to special order it or something?

[`asiya]

I would like to get a translation of the quran in english... Is there a specific translation that i should look for, or all of them pretty much the same in accuracy? And I would just look at any bookstore im thinking, or would i need to special order it or something?

well theres a good one called " the noble Quran"

The Noble Quran
In the English Language
A Summarized Version of At-Tabari, Al-Qurtubi and Ibn Kathir
with comments from Sahih Al-Bukhari
translated By Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali, Ph.D. Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan

and it has nice explanations of the verses and teachings ( hadith) of the prophet muhammad peace be upon him at the bottem of each page, are u in uk/ europe america etc ? i will try find a site u can order one from.

theres one here online u can read for now http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/quran/nobelquran/index_t.html

but it doesnt have the explanations at the bottem of the page u would need to get an actual copy for that.

here u go this site has all regions covered just click on ur area

http://www.dar-us-salam.com/about_us.htm

this one is for the uk http://www.darussalam.com/product_info.php?cPath=9&products_id=638 and is the one u need with the explanations

[LukinForAnswers]

Thanks very much again! I reside in America. I just finished the last chapter of the site you mentioned before, and it was indeed a very good read, and has many suggestions for further reading. I only have a few hours before I have to get ready for school, so it will have to wait, but im going to start on them here soon. So far, I have to admit that there is little I understand, but almost all I have read has been "agreeable".

There is one question I didnt have answered by the site however, and that is, mankind is not capable of being perfect, and while the Quran was... um, taught(?) to Muhammad, who then recited it to his followers. How is it that we know that the Quran was perfectly copied down by Muhammad's followers, as they are merely human?

edit: Oh, just saw where you edited, and one of the addresses on your site is less than a hour from where I reside ^_^

[`asiya]

Thanks very much again! I reside in America. I just finished the last chapter of the site you mentioned before, and it was indeed a very good read, and has many suggestions for further reading. I only have a few hours before I have to get ready for school, so it will have to wait, but im going to start on them here soon. So far, I have to admit that there is little I understand, but almost all I have read has been "agreeable".

There is one question I didnt have answered by the site however, and that is, mankind is not capable of being perfect, and while the Quran was... um, taught(?) to Muhammad, who then recited it to his followers. How is it that we know that the Quran was perfectly copied down by Muhammad's followers, as they are merely human?

edit: Oh, just saw where you edited, and one of the addresses on your site is less than a hour from where I reside ^_^

good question :up: and Allah answers this in the Quran :

88. Say: "If the mankind and the jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur'ân, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another." (Qur'an 17:88)

23. And if you are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (the Qur'ân) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a Sûrah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allâh, if you are truthful. (Qur'an 2:23)

once u read some Quran u will see why that is :) it is not possible that it is anything other than divine revalation Muhammad peace be upon him could not have known about those things mentioned, as u read on the site i gave u, how could he have known about the seperation of the fresh and salt waters as the rivers run into the ocean, we only discovered this fairly recently, or the development of the embryo in the womb, we have only had ultrasound and the like in the last century, and the Quran was revealed more than one thousand, four hundred years ago..

thats really quite something when u think about it..

[Chained_Water]

There is one question I didnt have answered by the site however, and that is, mankind is not capable of being perfect, and while the Quran was... um, taught(?) to Muhammad, who then recited it to his followers. How is it that we know that the Quran was perfectly copied down by Muhammad's followers, as they are merely human?



A whole website dedicated to this one question: http://www.theinimitablequran.com/

[SalafUsSalih]

I pray that Allah (God) guides you to the truth, the straight path, the middle path, which is the best of paths.Ameen.

Allah sends guidence to everyone on the face of the earth, and it is up to that person weather they choose to take it or reject it as we have free will.
Allah may send messages and guidence through His creation i.e. Through people like your friend. No muslim or anyone for that matter can guide anyone as Allah says: Allah guides who He pleases, and leaves astray who he pleases.
And it is a duty upon every muslim to propagate Islam, this is all they can do, spead the message just like the Prophets did (Peace be upon the all).

Also if you wish to embrace Islam, you should do it out of your own will and not for any other reason, be it forced or for marriage. Because to Allah you are not Muslim and have not grasped the true faith. And Allah knows best what we conceal and what we reveal.

May your journey to Islam be a beautiful one God willing.
One short advice, if you are truly seeking the truth just raise your hands and supplicate (Pray), you don't need to say Allah but just ask God to guide you to the truth without imagining any man or anything.
And Allah is the most Mecriful.

I'll just leave you with a short recitation of the Qur'an with Translation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuoURedvpxo&feature=related

[LastFriday]

Awesome! Subhan'Allah! this is something. Do read the Quran :D

[Unique1]

good question :up: and Allah answers this in the Quran :

88. Say: "If the mankind and the jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur'ân, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another." (Qur'an 17:88)

23. And if you are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (the Qur'ân) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a Sûrah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allâh, if you are truthful. (Qur'an 2:23)

once u read some Quran u will see why that is :) it is not possible that it is anything other than divine revalation Muhammad peace be upon him could not have known about those things mentioned, as u read on the site i gave u, how could he have known about the seperation of the fresh and salt waters as the rivers run into the ocean, we only discovered this fairly recently, or the development of the embryo in the womb, we have only had ultrasound and the like in the last century, and the Quran was revealed more than one thousand, four hundred years ago..

thats really quite something when u think about it..

sister asiya if you were somewhere near to where i live i would come just to hug you:embar: Every post i read of yours my heart prays for you:there:

To the brother who posted this thread read the quran you'll be blown away by the beautiful words of Allah(swt).The feeling you get when you put your head down infront of ALLAH(SWT) canot be explained.May Allah(swt) guide you:)

[Lord Summerisle]

Hope you find the answers to the questions you're seeking, wherever those answers may lie. :up:

(That was a bit philosophical, and not of any practical use to you. Sorry!)

[PiElle2]

you are still a student...? dun min me asking how old are you? it's great that there are young people who are getting such blessings from Allah. I met a young lady in class last weekend, she came here to study and got into Islam when her family's were all christians or catholic (i think), back home... and it's even great to hear her parents are very supportive...

[LukinForAnswers]

you are still a student...? dun min me asking how old are you? it's great that there are young people who are getting such blessings from Allah. I met a young lady in class last weekend, she came here to study and got into Islam when her family's were all christians or catholic (i think), back home... and it's even great to hear her parents are very supportive...

Yeah, im still a student. Im 18, and enrolled in both highschool, college, and working about 25-30 hrs a week.

[PiElle2]

Yeah, im still a student. Im 18, and enrolled in both highschool, college, and working about 25-30 hrs a week.


oh ya... i realised you mentioned your age in your first post... so... studying, working, thinking of marriage and inshallah getting into new religion... wow... dun you feel it's all happening too much at the same time...?

i am a convert myself... how i can say is... please take it easy... Islam is meant to be simple and it takes time to really understand it... stay with us here and we shall inshallah help you as much as we can...

may Allah guide you... :)

[AbuMubarak]

pielle,

i did the exact same thing

college, working two jobs, accepted islam, got married

[AbuMubarak]

pielle,

i did the exact same thing

college, working two jobs, accepted islam, got married

[PiElle2]

pielle,

i did the exact same thing

college, working two jobs, accepted islam, got married


oh right, bro, i didn't know that... mashallah... means you're the best person 'LukinForAnswers' can speak to...:D:up:

[AbuMubarak]

if luk is dating a musliimah, i am not remotely interested in speaking to him, i have left that up to you guys

if luk accepts islam and speaks to her father, then i would be more than interested in speaking to luk

[the_middle_road]

I would like to get a translation of the quran in english... Is there a specific translation that i should look for, or all of them pretty much the same in accuracy? And I would just look at any bookstore im thinking, or would i need to special order it or something?

I would personally recommend the translation done by Aisha and AbdalHaqq Bewley. There is a program called Holy Quran viewer which you can download, if you don't mind reading it from your computer. It has a number of translations, including this one by Aisha Bewley, so you can compare different versions.


There is one question I didnt have answered by the site however, and that is, mankind is not capable of being perfect, and while the Quran was... um, taught(?) to Muhammad, who then recited it to his followers. How is it that we know that the Quran was perfectly copied down by Muhammad's followers, as they are merely human?


The Arabs at the time had an oral tradition. Although they were not known for writing and such, they had phenomenal memories and were able to memorise a lot of things. So the first step by which the Quran was preserved was in the hearts and minds of the believers. They memorised the entire text, word for word, from beginning to end. And this is no exaggeration. These people are known as Huffaz and there must have been many of them amongst the Companions (ra). It was the death of a number of these Huffaz during the time of the first Caliph, Abu Bakr (ra), which led to the Quran being documented in book form. This was done by the Companions (ra) themselves, and since they were Huffaz i.e. had memorised the entire text, they were able to ensure that no part of it was omitted. And in each generation of Muslims, right down from that time until today, there have been hundreds if not thousands of Huffaz. This ensured that no change could ever occur in the written text of the Book. If someone tried to do so, the Huffaz would be able to pick up on it and prevent it. Even today people still dedicate themselves to memorising the Holy Quran, despite the fact that it is now preserved in book form. And there are many, many of us. This is a list (http://www.shabaab.co.za/reciters.php) of just some of the Huffaz in South Africa, and this is most likely only a fraction of the true number.

So yeah, basically it's because of the institution of Hifz (memorising the text) that we can be confident of the fact that the Quran we have today is the same as the one revealed to Muhammad :saw:.

[Jilbabi]

Hello Lukin4Answers

one piece of advice..dnt know if any1 else has said this but

learn about Islam 4 Islam..not4 the girl you want2 marry

becos if anything wos to go wrong you might resent her for that and label it Islam.

so inshaAllah (if God wills) hope you enjoy finding out the truth :D lol

The Oness of Allah (Taweheed)is something of which may be of interest to you

http://www.idci.co.uk/ .....you can get free book here which may help you..

Here are a few more website which may help you aswell :up:

there is transelations of each chapter in english...

http://www.quranexplorer.com/Quran/Default.aspx

a few lectures on various topics..

http://www.dhikrullah.com/dhikrullah/dhikrullah.html

some more free books...

http://www.fisabilillah.org/

Book store2 buy books...

http://www.darussalam.com/

this is real fun ..online quran..literally...

http://www.quranflash.com/en/index.html#

[RashidD]

The Arabs at the time had an oral tradition. Although they were not known for writing and such, they had phenomenal memories and were able to memorise a lot of things. So the first step by which the Quran was preserved was in the hearts and minds of the believers. They memorised the entire text, word for word, from beginning to end. And this is no exaggeration. These people are known as Huffaz and there must have been many of them amongst the Companions (ra). It was the death of a number of these Huffaz during the time of the first Caliph, Abu Bakr (ra), which led to the Quran being documented in book form. This was done by the Companions (ra) themselves, and since they were Huffaz i.e. had memorised the entire text, they were able to ensure that no part of it was omitted. And in each generation of Muslims, right down from that time until today, there have been hundreds if not thousands of Huffaz. This ensured that no change could ever occur in the written text of the Book. If someone tried to do so, the Huffaz would be able to pick up on it and prevent it. Even today people still dedicate themselves to memorising the Holy Quran, despite the fact that it is now preserved in book form. And there are many, many of us. This is a list (http://www.shabaab.co.za/reciters.php) of just some of the Huffaz in South Africa, and this is most likely only a fraction of the true number.

So yeah, basically it's because of the institution of Hifz (memorising the text) that we can be confident of the fact that the Quran we have today is the same as the one revealed to Muhammad :saw:.

LukinForAnswers,
This also testifies to the truthfulness of the verse in the Qur'an where ALLAH says along the lines of that He will protect the Qur'an (I don't know the verse btw)

Today even if people were to take every published Qur'an and detroy them, we can have it back in a number of hours i guess. Just get a haafiz from 5 different places, have them read take it down again. This in itself is a miracle.

[LukinForAnswers]

if luk is dating a musliimah, i am not remotely interested in speaking to him, i have left that up to you guys

if luk accepts islam and speaks to her father, then i would be more than interested in speaking to luk

Like I said before... I am not "dating" a mulim. We are good friends, and our friendship has led us to feel very strongly for one another. The reason I said not in the normal way you would use the word "dating" earlier, is I ment that we are not really dating, yet are faithful to each other, and have a very close relationship. The only reason I have even started to look at the Islamic faith I guess you would call it, is for her. Is that really wrong? And how am I to come to accept Islam without first coming to understand it?

Sorry for kinda starting what could be seen as an argument, but I feel as if you have either taken a dislike for me over a misunderstanding, or that I am unaware that even very close friendships are not allowed. If I come to accept Islam, then yes, I will approach her father. If I do not, then there is no telling what will come.


The Arabs at the time had an oral tradition. Although they were not known for writing and such, they had phenomenal memories and were able to memorise a lot of things. So the first step by which the Quran was preserved was in the hearts and minds of the believers. They memorised the entire text, word for word, from beginning to end. And this is no exaggeration. These people are known as Huffaz and there must have been many of them amongst the Companions (ra). It was the death of a number of these Huffaz during the time of the first Caliph, Abu Bakr (ra), which led to the Quran being documented in book form. This was done by the Companions (ra) themselves, and since they were Huffaz i.e. had memorised the entire text, they were able to ensure that no part of it was omitted. And in each generation of Muslims, right down from that time until today, there have been hundreds if not thousands of Huffaz. This ensured that no change could ever occur in the written text of the Book. If someone tried to do so, the Huffaz would be able to pick up on it and prevent it. Even today people still dedicate themselves to memorising the Holy Quran, despite the fact that it is now preserved in book form. And there are many, many of us. This is a list of just some of the Huffaz in South Africa, and this is most likely only a fraction of the true number.

Thanks for this!

one piece of advice..dnt know if any1 else has said this but

learn about Islam 4 Islam..not4 the girl you want2 marry

becos if anything wos to go wrong you might resent her for that and label it Islam.

And Jilbabi, It is because of her, and my feelings for her that I am looking into Islam. She is not even aware at this time that I have started looking into it, it is merely something I started from free will. Whille thats not the same as looking into Islam for Islam, No matter if I come to accept Islam or not, I will not blame or resent her for it. Thanks for the advice however, for good advice is always welcome! Also, as soon as able, I will take a look at your links!:up:

[PiElle2]

if luk is dating a musliimah, i am not remotely interested in speaking to him, i have left that up to you guys

if luk accepts islam and speaks to her father, then i would be more than interested in speaking to luk


bro... no one can accept Islam within a second with prior knowledge or understanding, putting the 'dating' issue aside, we as Muslims need to help people who seek knowledge to understand Islam... dun you agree...? well... that's at least how i learn Islam. Not sure about you... :o (btw, We dun attend attend to matters that only interest us but we have to do what we have to do, according to who we are...)

[RashidD]

LukinForAnswers,
This also testifies to the truthfulness of the verse in the Qur'an where ALLAH says along the lines of that He will protect the Qur'an (I don't know the verse btw)

Today even if people were to take every published Qur'an and detroy them, we can have it back in a number of hours i guess. Just get a haafiz from 5 different places, have them read take it down again. This in itself is a miracle.

Just to expand on this, when a Nabi (Prophet) comes to a people, ALLAH gives him miracles to rival the "in-thing" or the speciality of the people of that time.

Let me give you some examples:

Musa pbuh (That is moses in other languages) came to the people of egypt. Their speciality was magic... So ALLAH gave musa miracles to rival the magicians (so much so that it's mentioned in Qur'an that the magicians themselves became muslim because they knew Musa was not doing magic but was a Prophet (pbuh))

Esa (Jesus) pbuh was sent to a people who's speciality was medicine and so Esa was given miracles to rival that.

Muhammed :saw: was sent among the arab people (even though it's meant for mankind wholely) who's speciality was literature. Poetry, writing etc. The Qur'an is the miracle to rival that. Imagine, a literary form where not one person could imitate it for 1400 years (and counting) and it was initially sent amongst a people whose speciality was literature...

[the_middle_road]

LukinForAnswers,
This also testifies to the truthfulness of the verse in the Qur'an where ALLAH says along the lines of that He will protect the Qur'an (I don't know the verse btw)



إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ


It is We Who have sent down the Reminder and We Who will preserve it.


(al-Hijr: 9)

al-Dhikr (the Reminder) is another of the names of the Holy Quran.

[AbuMubarak]

bro... no one can accept Islam within a second with prior knowledge or understanding, putting the 'dating' issue aside, we as Muslims need to help people who seek knowledge to understand Islam... dun you agree...? well... that's at least how i learn Islam. Not sure about you... :o (btw, We dun attend attend to matters that only interest us but we have to do what we have to do, according to who we are...)
so proceed