***I have been suspended at work - Help!***

[thetruth]

Salams,

This is what happend.

I was looking for some cisco stuff (anything to help with exams etc) and came across this site that had a link for cisco pdf document (its basicaly a guide that goes through -'cisco stuff - made easy').

It redirected me to a link which I downloaded on my desktop but it wouldnt work. It was out of space on my local machine so I tried downloading it to a network drive. Again, nothing happened. so I left it.

2 days later a network drive crashed and it is very likely that it was the one I downloaded the thing to (i dont know cos was not at work, but was told a drive had crashed and IT have a stong suspicion it was me).

I was called into work and have been suspended until a interview next week with hr boss. I was told I had been suspended for 'gross misconduct'.

Apparently what I had downloaded was a serial key (crack).

I strongly suspect they will fire me.

What shall or can I do?

In my defence I did not knownigly download a crack at all. (I wouldnt for this very reason of getting caught). The cisco document was something I thought that would benefit me (and the company since it was work releated. I have been with the company for quite a long time and dont have a bad record at all.

The thing is, as you can imagine, it would be very difficult if I lost the job...but if its meant to be then fine, but I would rather go fighting my case and with dignity.


Any one have any idea what I can do? or what I shall do? Is it likely I will be sacked? Can they sack me without a warning?

look forward to the advice.

w.s

[Rouz]

Can't you just tell them what happened?
Sorry that is rubbish advice..but what you did was by accident. So all you can do is tell the truth.

[AbuMubarak]

walk into the office, standing tall and direct, and say, look, i was checking out the vulnerablities of our security and figured this would be a good test

if that doesnt work, you could beg and grovel for your job

or. just resign today, but do not get fired, it doesnt look good

[Medievalist]

I dunno. Dont you have a union or some advice people to talk to? someone who knows about employment law etc. ?

[nomoreillusions]

Do exactly what your name says. Tell THE TRUTH.

THey may not believe you, but that is no justification to lie.

Tell them exactly what you just told us. You were trying to download a file you thought would be useful and were unaware that it would cause any damage at all.

You can butter them up a bit by adding in that you've learned your lesson, it won't happen again, etc... but stand up and tell the truth and even if they fire you, you can leave with your head up.

[AbuMubarak]

i would quit before being fired

but tell the truth

that you thought it was a good security check

[O2K]

well if you get fired you can get unemployment.

if you quit you cant

[AbuMubarak]

yeah, thats another way of looking at it

but i dont ever aim for unemployment, i aim for getting re-employed, and it looks better to say that you resigned, than to say you got fired

[sajid]

Salams

If you downloaded someything one day then 2 days later a network drive crashed then that dont make sense at all

Unless of course u downloaded a virus!!! but again any decent system would detect this virus straight away

ive never seen such a example where u do something then things crash few days later it dont makes sense...if u did cause it to crash then it would almost be instantaneous not 2 days later!!!

i dont think doing something unwillingly is a sackable offense - if it was something like looking at Porn or something yeh understandable but if u downloaded something unknowingly then they cant sack you.

most probably what they will do is look at your Internet Usage Logs..ask them for a copy of it aswell........if your usage shows alot of cracks warez website then that something to worry bout...if it dont then to get sacked like this is grossly unfair and you can take them to tribunal

MAKE SURE U ASK TO SEE A COPY OF THE INTERNET LOGS!! you can use this as a CASE!!!!

[sajid]

Also if they do try and fire you i sgugest u get smart for them and ask them for things like

web server logs
Server logs (which ever systems you using)
Error logs etc, internet logs

Each time a Server crashes or fail it is logged and you can often determine what caused the failure!!!! so make sure u get copies of those

if they cant produce anything then they cant prove it

also what exactly crashed? Server crashed of the Drive just failed?

[prashantnew]

Also if they do try and fire you i sgugest u get smart for them and ask them for things like

web server logs
Server logs (which ever systems you using)
Error logs etc, internet logs

Each time a Server crashes or fail it is logged and you can often determine what caused the failure!!!! so make sure u get copies of those

if they cant produce anything then they cant prove it

also what exactly crashed? Server crashed of the Drive just failed?

I think that's pretty sound advice. If it was something you did, surely the drives would have crashed closer to the time you did something.

Tell the truth and then Allah Hu Alam, maybe the job is not good for you and something better may be around the corner.

By the way, you may get in trouble if you went to a dodgy warez or torrent site to get the pdf.

[thetruth]

salams.

Thanks for everyones feedback (jazakAllahkhair).

It was a shared server that pretty much had a lot of peolpes work on it. They did manage to get it back online though, dont think they lost anything.

What you pointed out was what I was thinking and I was going to use that little tiny fact in my argument against them. Cos I know for a fact the network drive was alive after I had downloaded that thing, cos I could still access it.

The file that was downloaded appeared to contain a virus. I KNOW that cos I had a mcafee alert pop up on my machine at the time I downloaded it.

I will defnetly ask them for logs. But I ALWAYS delete the internet files before I leave the office, can they still keep a log of EVERYTHING?

[thetruth]

I think that's pretty sound advice. If it was something you did, surely the drives would have crashed closer to the time you did something.

Tell the truth and then Allah Hu Alam, maybe the job is not good for you and something better may be around the corner.

By the way, you may get in trouble if you went to a dodgy warez or torrent site to get the pdf.

whats a warez?

my story is that it was a forum that I visited through goolgle that had the link. did not look or suggest it was a crack.

[thetruth]

well if you get fired you can get unemployment.

if you quit you cant


pls explain what you mean?

[sajid]

salams.

Thanks for everyones feedback (jazakAllahkhair).

It was a shared server that pretty much had a lot of peolpes work on it. They did manage to get it back online though, dont think they lost anything.

What you pointed out was what I was thinking and I was going to use that little tiny fact in my argument against them. Cos I know for a fact the network drive was alive after I had downloaded that thing, cos I could still access it.

The file that was downloaded appeared to contain a virus. I KNOW that cos I had a mcafee alert pop up on my machine at the time I downloaded it.

I will defnetly ask them for logs. But I ALWAYS delete the internet files before I leave the office, can they still keep a log of EVERYTHING?

Yeh they can still keep l ogs of internet - clearing local machine history dont make a difference because your machine is more then likely connecting to a web / internet server to access the internet and it keeps tracks of logs etc..depending on the size company????

[thetruth]

Yeh they can still keep l ogs of internet - clearing local machine history dont make a difference because your machine is more then likely connecting to a web / internet server to access the internet and it keeps tracks of logs etc..depending on the size company????

its fairly big.

then they might have something cos some of the links were dodgy, they had links to torrents. can they prove i downloaded something from a torrent site? or can they even prove where I downloaded it from

[nomoreillusions]

pls explain what you mean?

Don't know how it works in England, but in the US if you are fired, laid off, or otherwise unemployed by means other than choosing to leave, you can collect unemployment insurance.

Basically it's where the government gives your hard-earned money they've been taking out of every paycheck back to you, while maintaining the attitude that it's not yours and you're not entitled to it.

Grr.

[sajid]

its fairly big.

then they might have something cos some of the links were dodgy, they had links to torrents. can they prove i downloaded something from a torrent site? or can they even prove where I downloaded it from

did u actually click those links???

[thetruth]

did u actually click those links???

I dont think I did click a torrent click.

[bhatti00]

bro, [this is a test from Allah]


so basically tell them the truth, admit you downloaded the file but didnt know it was a virus.

secondly - they cant say for sure that your file caused the network to crash, it's very difficult to prove that.

thridly - tell em how comitted you are to the job, u take full responsibility [but as it is your first offence u may get off with a verbal or written warning]


dont worry, what is to be will be.. pm me if u want more advice.

wsalaams

[sajid]

I dont think I did click a torrent click.

in that case as long as u did not click links to torrent sites you have a stronger case that it was not intentional

[RacingStripe433]

walk into the office, standing tall and direct, and say, look, i was checking out the vulnerablities of our security and figured this would be a good test

if that doesnt work, you could beg and grovel for your job

or. just resign today, but do not get fired, it doesnt look good

IMHO, (and this is purely my opinion brother AbuMubrak don't let it sour our brotherhood :D) Do not claim you were doing "security checks" your employer will turn around and say "we don't pay you to do that".

The best advice that I've seen is the server logs. If they can prove from the server logs that you were legitimately using the web to search for training resources then you have a VERY strong case.

Things that can help you prove this are your search history e.g. if the logs show you typed in "XYZ training material" into google, then this should be enough to prove that you were not doing anything suspicious or intent on destroying their system.

Brother I think you have a good case, and Insh'Allah you will be back at your post in no time.

Companies, no matter how big or small, are always paranoid about security, espionage etc etc. And managers are always on a power trip!

Get those logs! Insh'Allah you'll be fine.

[Ordo Abchao]

Just keep on repeating "IAMnotLEGEND!" :up:


:insha:

[AbuMubarak]

IMHO, (and this is purely my opinion brother AbuMubrak don't let it sour our brotherhood :D) Do not claim you were doing "security checks" your employer will turn around and say "we don't pay you to do that"..my apologies it was my lame attempt at humor

i wouldnt advise anyone to put their noose in the neck like that

what sajid said was pretty much the best advice

but then again, none of us know his situation, he has to come to the solution that is best for his situation

[thetruth]

btw the link referred to a rapid share file, so no torrent.

http://rapidshare.com/

ive been doing some futher thinking.

How the heck do they know 100% it was me?

our it team is incapble of rolling out super doper software.

they would have had to track back down to the mac addy of the pc I was using, and their database to see what machine it was and then check records of who was using the pc at the time the attack happened. right ?
the pc I was using, is shared. And since that virus attack did not happen at the time I downloaded that file (even around that time) how can they possibly point at me?

further more, doesnt anyone think that they are being quite unreasonble considering my length of service (over 5 yrs). surely they ought to have asked me first rather than this route?

[sajid]

btw the link referred to a rapid share file, so no torrent.

http://rapidshare.com/

ive been doing some futher thinking.

How the heck do they know 100% it was me?

our it team is incapble of rolling out super doper software.

they would have had to track back down to the mac addy of the pc I was using, and their database to see what machine it was and then check records of who was using the pc at the time the attack happened. right ?
the pc I was using, is shared. And since that virus attack did not happen at the time I downloaded that file (even around that time) how can they possibly point at me?

further more, doesnt anyone think that they are being quite unreasonble considering my length of service (over 5 yrs). surely they ought to have asked me first rather than this route?
Salams

im not sure how your network is setup but generally the can track activity based on Login and IP address of the machine..if u saved it to the network drive i assume u have ur own network drives on the server i.e your own space?

[thetruth]

Salams

im not sure how your network is setup but generally the can track activity based on Login and IP address of the machine..if u saved it to the network drive i assume u have ur own network drives on the server i.e your own space?

w.s

yeh bro, I do have my own space. I tried saving it to my desktop, it never worked so I saved it on the network drive.

what im trying to put my finger on is can they 100% confirm its me, and prove it.

[sajid]

hmm well if it was on ur network site then virus detection software will show its origination which most prolly may have traced it back to urs!

[RacingStripe433]

Well you might find my input completely useless as I am from a school setting (and therefore have different ICT procedures)...

BUT...

How our student accounts work are when somebody logs onto a computer, the administrator knows the location of that PC and has a live feed of what the person is viewing on their screen.

They can log us off automatically if they think were doing something wrong. Every student is allocated (a paltry) 5mb space on the "server" at school. Each student has space, so it makes it easier to find out where a virus or particular file originated from.

My grasp of ICT terminology is pretty crap, so please forgive me if you don't get what I'm saying.

In essence, they would need to prove your account was being used at the time your network went down, but this is impossible as the bug or whatever it was took down your system TWO days after. I don't see how it could be you?

Scapegoat....

[haque]

Be confident when you meet with them. Look the HR person in the eye and tell the the truth. Afterwards, point out your long record with the company and how this is the first time you've gotten in trouble. Insha'allah you will not loose your job or if you do, Allah will bless you with something better, ameen.

[thetruth]

jazakAllahkhair for the feedback everyone!

lets see what happens, in the mean time im just writing down stuff and preparing a few statments that will support me. im also considering speaking to a solicitor and seeing if they will come with me to the hr interview.

what do you think

[Jung's Shadow]

yeah, thats another way of looking at it

but i dont ever aim for unemployment, i aim for getting re-employed, and it looks better to say that you resigned, than to say you got fired

Well, we do have a veiwpoint in common. :up:

[maksam]

Salaam,

Some advice given here have been good and some not so great. Br Sajid gave you some good tips. Also i dont mean to undermine you and not everyone knows what a warez is.. but if you dont know what warez is then maybe by mistake you could have downloaded a virus/serial etc without actually knowing...

If you did download such a thing then its going to be a tight bottle neck esp when it comes to working on shared servers where other clients work could be at jeopardy, which could be damaging for the whole company.

Some websites could be so nice looking and pretend to help you, but after you download it, it can become quite dangerous... the file dosent necessarily have to be active as and when you download it... and the system might not recognise it... but there could be numerous ways the file could have become active... hence it caused the crash after two days. Do you remember what cisco website you visited? If it was the official website then you shouldnt have any issues as you were on a genuine website.

If you remember the website then show your bosses the site you had visited and ask them the same question... whether they would have browsed the same website. Just show them the actual website and how you ended up on it and the very same file you downloaded... they will then see that your intentions were right and nothing malicious.

Do keep us updated as to what happens.

Good Luck.

[AbuMubarak]

with all of these dangers, why do people still use windoze?

linux doesnt have these problems

i dont even think macs have these problems

[thetruth]

here are the allegated allegations:

1. breach of a critical aspect of the companys computer it systrems and equipment policy
2. misuse of internet access
3. use of aunauthorized software on company equipment

by

a. accessing and downloading software that the company had not purchased
b. accessing and downloading and using illegal material - serial keys (cracks)
c. compromising security of data systems, and networks through the introduction of infected software onto our systems.


:rubeyes:..........

[AbuMubarak]

akhi, on a serious note

you have to make a decision, because it seems like they have quite a case on you.......i dont know what is best

but do not despair, the sky has fallen on me quite a few times in life, and believe it or not, it was only a drizzle when it was all said and done

[thetruth]

course bro, theirs many peolpe out their worse than me, subhanAllah.

but it does not look nice, I feel they may sterotype, them firing a muslim with a beard ...its a no no man, mis represents my fellow brothers n sisters.







but do not despair, the sky has fallen on me quite a few times in life, and believe it or not, it was only a drizzle when it was all said and done

[Jung's Shadow]

course bro, theirs many peolpe out their worse than me, subhanAllah.

but it does not look nice, I feel they may sterotype, them firing a muslim with a beard ...its a no no man, mis represents my fellow brothers n sisters.

Or it is taken the liberal way and used as an example of prejudice against Muslims. He was fired because he was a Muslim! Forshame. So this can be looked at from many perspectives, non of them actually correct.

[Treasured Soul]

sajid bro has given u the best advice so far :up:

This definitely teaches me to never save anything on the network drive which i have been doing lately to save time! :o

[thetruth]

im planning on saying this in the interview...not so much read out a statment, but will say it in a flowing conversation when replying to them.

what do you think

-------------------------
I would like to stress that at no time did I have the intention to compromise any part of the security on our network and at no time did I attempt to download any illegal material.

I have spent over 5 years with this company remaining dedicated, honest & trustworthy, earning several promotions, pay rises and on two occasions was offered an opportunity to become a manager.

I take the alleged allegations very seriously and feel I have been wrongly accused.

An incident did take place where I attempted to download a Cisco doucment, which requires a freeware software, however the download appeared to be unsuccessful due to a unknown error. Their were no further attempts made to download that item or download anything else.


I would just hate to have 5 years of dedicated work come to an end over these circumstances and trust you will fairly judge the outcome of this incident.

---------------

[sajid]

sounds good!"

[ibn Iyaaz]

here are the allegated allegations:

1. breach of a critical aspect of the companys computer it systrems and equipment policy
2. misuse of internet access
3. use of aunauthorized software on company equipment

by

a. accessing and downloading software that the company had not purchased
b. accessing and downloading and using illegal material - serial keys (cracks)
c. compromising security of data systems, and networks through the introduction of infected software onto our systems.


:rubeyes:..........

I would definitely asks for the activity logs, those logs would show your searches etc. If they refuse that than it seems like they are on a manhunt.

but insha-Allah if you speak the truth you will be ok.

[Chained_Water]

Seek legal advice and write them a letter which you can give to them before the interview or read to them at the interview.

It sounds like you've been unfairly suspended, without any proper warning procedures being followed first nor them consulting you.

If you unwittingly downloaded a file which you thought was a pdf, then they can not fire you for that. People in companies often get viruses through download or email, they aren't fired for stuff like this. It's the companys own responsibility to have adequate virus proection and so on, not employees. You thought you were downloading something work related. So unless they have a no download fullstop policy how can they target you like this, even then most companies would first issue a verbal warning, then written warning, then some kind of intervention or monitoring plan or a suspension and finally dismissal. They cannot dismiss you just like that.

If they try it you should totally do them for unfair dismissal :torture:

It's not fair that your work record be marred like this :(

I pray Allah (swt) grants you justice in this matter and helps you.

[thetruth]

The interview has been delayed till tomrow, but last week they send additional stuff including logs / screen shots about the virus and some of my activity that led to them suspending me and accusing me of gross misconduct.

The actual claims are NOT that I knocked out a server (maybe they would have had problems proving that so they decided to hang me for something else?), but they are now claiming that..

''as part of a routine check, the it team found files that had been uploaded to one of the servers that were infected by a trojan horse program called trojan.horst''.

''on further investigation, the it team discovered further evidence of infected files in his personal folders, as well as links indicating that he had visited crack sites and had bookmarked download sites for further ref.''

i dont know of any other files and am 100% sure that was the ONLY download that I made, nothing else at all. though that 1 file I download, I did save on two diffrent locations. so it seems, they are really trying to make it sound more worse than it actually is?

also, they claim they found links in my personal fav. folder. I have to admit, thier was ONE link that had freeware software and illgal content (i.e office) BUT I used that site once about 3 / 4 years ago for a freeware software that had 30 day trial (smartftp) because download.com was down.

they also highlighted 'megaupload' on my personal folder, yes I have used it, again it was work realted (I uploaded a cisco flash image, its to big for email) and again it was ages ago.

After reading that report they send, I have even more reason to believe that are after blood, and will go out of their way to get it.


question:

on the favortie links, they have my OLD personal folder with various links. their is also a 'date modified' column. the date modified for all the links is at least 3 years old (meaupload is 04/08/2005)

now I would like to clarify if that is the date that fave link was created or the last time it was used? the answer to this can help me.

jazakAllah

[sajid]

its prolly date accessed

[thetruth]

its prolly date accessed

prolly?

[saladin1970]

Salams,

This is what happend.

I was looking for some cisco stuff (anything to help with exams etc) and came across this site that had a link for cisco pdf document (its basicaly a guide that goes through -'cisco stuff - made easy').

It redirected me to a link which I downloaded on my desktop but it wouldnt work. It was out of space on my local machine so I tried downloading it to a network drive. Again, nothing happened. so I left it.

2 days later a network drive crashed and it is very likely that it was the one I downloaded the thing to (i dont know cos was not at work, but was told a drive had crashed and IT have a stong suspicion it was me).

I was called into work and have been suspended until a interview next week with hr boss. I was told I had been suspended for 'gross misconduct'.

Apparently what I had downloaded was a serial key (crack).

I strongly suspect they will fire me.

What shall or can I do?

In my defence I did not knownigly download a crack at all. (I wouldnt for this very reason of getting caught). The cisco document was something I thought that would benefit me (and the company since it was work releated. I have been with the company for quite a long time and dont have a bad record at all.

The thing is, as you can imagine, it would be very difficult if I lost the job...but if its meant to be then fine, but I would rather go fighting my case and with dignity.


Any one have any idea what I can do? or what I shall do? Is it likely I will be sacked? Can they sack me without a warning?

look forward to the advice.

w.s

if you fit in and are useful, they will accept your account

if you don't fit in or are not useful. this will be the excuse.

find someone who thinks you are useful and fit in, and involve them.

[Salman Al-Farsi]

Have you discussed this with your line manager?

Also write everything down, exact details to take in with you and submitt because sometimes at interview you could get nervous and forget some details or come across like it.

It happened to me once, I was on grave yard shift and decided to install wireless router on the computer which was laying about so I can take laptop to the conference call room. Good thing was one of the bosses asked me to get laptop in there and I only suggested that maybe we could install the router, he agreed. Anyway, the whole night only us two had internet access and the whole network went down. When I came back in after two days I saw an email to everyone saying not to install any devices on computers as it caused network outage for almost 7 hrs. I was like :eek: But the boss took ownership and I just got slap on the wrist by the IT manager.

MY advise just argue that case that you did it purely for work purposes, I know people who have been caught downloading dodgy stuff and non-work related stuff or viruses coming thru something non-work related and they got instant dismissal.

best thing, write it all down and hand it in at interview and take your line manager with you as witness.