Is homosexuality worse than shirk?

[haque]

The reason I ask is because I was reading Surah Al-A'raf, verse 80:

And (remember) Lût a.k.a. Lot (peace be upon him), when he said to his people: "Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the 'Âlamîn (mankind and jinn)?

If there was shirk before the time of the people of Lut (pbuh) then going by this verse, it would mean that homosexuality is worse than shirk.

I always thought that shirk was the worst possible sin, so I'm a bit confused. What do you guys think?

[the_middle_road]

That is a mistranslation. In the Arabic it does not say that it is the worst sin - just that is a faahishah.


وَلُوطًا إِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهِ أَتَأْتُونَ الْفَاحِشَةَ مَا سَبَقَكُمْ بِهَا مِنْ أَحَدٍ مِنَ الْعَالَمِينَ


And Lut, when he said to his people, 'Do you commit an obscenity not perpetrated before you by anyone in all the worlds?'


(al-A'raf: 80)

Maybe it would be a good idea for you, when reading the translation, to refer to more than just one. It's very difficult to translate something from one language to another, more so with the Holy Quran. So all translations will have some sort of deficiency and shortcoming in them - even the best ones.


Or rather just start learning Arabic. :up:

[Lord Summerisle]

Oh no, here we go...

[RazielTemp]

The reason I ask is because I was reading Surah Al-A'raf, verse 80:



If there was shirk before the time of the people of Lut (pbuh) then going by this verse, it would mean that homosexuality is worse than shirk.

I always thought that shirk was the worst possible sin, so I'm a bit confused. What do you guys think?

Homosexuals are Committing Shirk, and SHirk leads to Homosexuality ...

Homosexuals worship their Filthy repugnant "desires",

Allah Tabarak wata'ala states in this Ayah ...

Al-Quran, Chapter 25 : Verse 43
--------------------------------
"Seest thou such a one as taketh for his god his own passion (or impulse)? Couldst thou be a disposer of affairs for him?"

This is blatant Shirk, when a Sick Sodomite obeys his desires and satisfies them in such a manner ...

Sodomy is among the worst types of Sins committable, which happens to be rampant among the Kuffar ...

:jkk:

[Lord Summerisle]

Homosexuals are Committing Shirk, and SHirk leads to Homosexuality ...

Homosexuals worship their Filthy repugnant "desires",

Allah Tabarak wata'ala states in this Ayah ...

Al-Quran, Chapter 25 : Verse 43
--------------------------------
"Seest thou such a one as taketh for his god his own passion (or impulse)? Couldst thou be a disposer of affairs for him?"

This is blatant Shirk, when a Sick Sodomite obeys his desires and satisfies them in such a manner ...

Sodomy is among the worst types of Sins committable, which happens to be rampant among the Kuffar ...

:jkk:

Whats your point? Is homosexuality worse than shirk?

[haque]

Jazakallah Khair guys. Btw, I got the translation from a qur'an that I got from KSA. It says that it was printed by the King Fahd Complex.

[extempers]

Whats your point? Is homosexuality worse than shirk?

bismillah,

you really need to start reading other people's posts. The questions was asked and answered thorougly.

If you still don't understand, the answer is no. There is no sin greater than shirk.

[Lord Summerisle]

bismillah,

you really need to start reading other people's posts. The questions was asked and answered thorougly.

If you still don't understand, the answer is no. There is no sin greater than shirk.

OK, but the fact that it was aksed suggests it's a fine line between the two, which I think is madness.

[sis_sarah]

ok i know this is gnna cause a big controversy or whatever but i'll mention it anyway
mods can delete it any time when they wanna

someone was sayin to me
u know how Allah tests everyone in different ways...
what if homosexuality is like a sort of test for some people
and even though they have those feelings etc. they must try to prevent from acting upon them and surpress those desires...
so basically at the time of Lut (a.s) that nation could have been tested in that way but...
whatever...any thoughts?

[mamadu]

so basically at the time of Lut (a.s) that nation could have been tested in that way but...
whatever...any thoughts?Well, apparently, they failed the test, and were totally destroyed.

[sis_sarah]

Well, apparently, they failed the test, and were totally destroyed.

yep defo
it was justified

[mamadu]

yep defo
it was justifiedStill, destroying everyone... men, women, children, young and old... why ?

[sis_sarah]

Still, destroying everyone... men, women, children, young and old... why ?

tht really is not for me to answer
it was God's decision and his finality so who am i to question his authority? Allah has a plan and he had a good reason to do so

[Cartman]

Still, destroying everyone... men, women, children, young and old... why ?

anyone caught in a calamity gets destroyed, but on judgement day they will be given their reward (i.e. the children, incapacitated and pious people caught in a calamity)

[Jung's Shadow]

Homosexuals are Committing Shirk, and SHirk leads to Homosexuality ...

If shirk happens, it only happened because god willed it (oddly enough), because homosexuality is no choice.

[greenshirt]

no it is not worse then shirk. allah(swt) can forgive everything except he will not forgive shirk.

it is a great sin but it is not worse then shirk. a muslim who is gay can still eventually reach jannah (insha allah) as long as they do not commit shirk.

and i would not agree with the above member who called homosexuality a form of shirk. minor shirk maybe but not major shirk.. not one that takes one out of islaam.

i have taken many classes on psychology and there was a lecture once on the life of homosexuals. i am 100% sure that homosexuality is NOT a choice. these desires are something beyond your control.

allah(swt) tests people in different ways.. i think the people with same sex attractions have one of the hardest tests. but, if they pass then insha allah they will have a GREAT reward in jannah :) if they dont, well allahu alim.

wa salaam

[Kal-El]

I was switching through channels and came across the movie Evan Almighty. Can Morgan Freeman's "acting" the role of God also be defined as Shirk despite it being for entertainment purposes? I'm not justifying it - just exploring what practising Shirk really is in regards to actors.

[Cartman]

I was switching through channels and came across the movie Evan Almighty. Can Morgan Freeman's "acting" the role of God also be defined as Shirk despite it being for entertainment purposes? I'm not justifying it - just exploring what practising Shirk really is in regards to actors.


oh absolutely...even though it's for entertainement purposes, they use a human, a created being, to try to objectify and embody allah, and if that isn't shirk, then I dont know what is

[LastFriday]

ok i know this is gnna cause a big controversy or whatever but i'll mention it anyway
mods can delete it any time when they wanna

someone was sayin to me
u know how Allah tests everyone in different ways...
what if homosexuality is like a sort of test for some people
and even though they have those feelings etc. they must try to prevent from acting upon them and surpress those desires...
so basically at the time of Lut (a.s) that nation could have been tested in that way but...
whatever...any thoughts?

Ya I think thats the case with many people too...

Still, destroying everyone... men, women, children, young and old... why ?

eh, thats a very naive question...relating back to why do calamities befall on good practicing people.

[AbuMubarak]

OK, but the fact that it was aksed suggests it's a fine line between the two, which I think is madness.
you dont think either one is a big deal

[Ibn Sina]

I was switching through channels and came across the movie Evan Almighty. Can Morgan Freeman's "acting" the role of God also be defined as Shirk despite it being for entertainment purposes? I'm not justifying it - just exploring what practising Shirk really is in regards to actors.


Manifest shirk .....

[extempers]

If shirk happens, it only happened because god willed it (oddly enough), because homosexuality is no choice.
Bismillah,

Homosexuality is a choice. GLBT goes so far as to admit this and many gays follow this as well. Homosexuality is more about social conditioning than anything else and the whole "having desire but not acting upon it" is something that applies today, but not necessarily with Lut (as) time.
They weren't just comitting sodomy...

Here's what I find ludicrous:
That we are ok with naked billboards in France, that we are ok with the racy commercials on tv today, that we are ok with naked men humping things and celebrating their "diversity" during gay pride parades.

Yah...gay people definitely are the victims. How dare we question their lifestyle, bravo tv and Ellen tells us gay is cool!

[Jung's Shadow]

Bismillah,

Homosexuality is a choice. GLBT goes so far as to admit this and many gays follow this as well.

GLBT is only an acronym. It is not an official group

Homosexuality is more about social conditioning than anything else

Sure, and this is why it is still WIDELY debated.

Here's what I find ludicrous:
That we are ok with naked billboards in France, that we are ok with the racy commercials on tv today, that we are ok with naked men humping things and celebrating their "diversity" during gay pride parades.

Yah...gay people definitely are the victims. How dare we question their lifestyle, bravo tv and Ellen tells us gay is cool!

So?

[Joha]

OK, but the fact that it was aksed suggests it's a fine line between the two, which I think is madness.

Interesting :rolleyes:

Question: Is there any real difference between Lord Summerisle and a half witted baboon?

Comment: The Question has been asked, there must be a very fine line between the two. Perhaps there isn't one.

[AbuMubarak]

GLBT is only an acronym. It is not an official group



Sure, and this is why it is still WIDELY debated.



So?

jung, just for your information, you barely missed the bannings of the past few days

barely

your response "so?" is typical of why they were banned

you have been here long enough to know that we dont take kindly to gayness, you have stated your position, we have stated ours, there is no reason on every thread to interject with "so" as if to say, whats wrong with it

we see things different, but this constant contradictory attitude is a nuisance that will not be tolerated

if you want to discuss a point, then do so, and even that, why try to convince us that gayness is normal, it most certainly isnt

now if, after we have explained it to you, and you still feel it is ok, then that is your choice as you live your life

but here, there are only but so many times we are going to discuss "if there is a god" or "is gayness ok" or some of the other things you seem to want to be repetitive

i dont know about the infracting system, i will leave it up to one of the other mods, but take this is a first warning

[`asiya]

Bismillah,

Homosexuality is a choice. GLBT goes so far as to admit this and many gays follow this as well. Homosexuality is more about social conditioning than anything else and the whole "having desire but not acting upon it" is something that applies today, but not necessarily with Lut (as) time.
They weren't just comitting sodomy...

Here's what I find ludicrous:
That we are ok with naked billboards in France, that we are ok with the racy commercials on tv today, that we are ok with naked men humping things and celebrating their "diversity" during gay pride parades.

Yah...gay people definitely are the victims. How dare we question their lifestyle, bravo tv and Ellen tells us gay is cool!

yep cant wear hijab to get an education in france, but men can legally go round sodomising each other and its not a problem..same on the island i live on they passed laws last year to bring the legal age of sodomy down from 21 to age 16 but i cant have the right to wear hijab to work .. gays have more rights than those who want to behave modestly.

[Lord Summerisle]

Interesting :rolleyes:

Question: Is there any real difference between Lord Summerisle and a half witted baboon?

Comment: The Question has been asked, there must be a very fine line between the two. Perhaps there isn't one.

Weren't you in agreement with this 'half witted baboon' in another thread?

Must take one to know one. ;)

[Jung's Shadow]

jung, just for your information, you barely missed the bannings of the past few days

barely

your response "so?" is typical of why they were banned

you have been here long enough to know that we dont take kindly to gayness, you have stated your position, we have stated ours, there is no reason on every thread to interject with "so" as if to say, whats wrong with it

Or perhaps your position has not been explained convincingly enough. To say it is a sin is not good enough. To say Allah does not approve of it, is not good enough. It is the equivilant of asking why the sky is blue and saying, just because. But this never occured to you has it. As for discussing a point, I took that as far as I could with the so. What else could I say on such limited and baseless judgements/observations.

we see things different, but this constant contradictory attitude is a nuisance that will not be tolerated

What contradictory attitude? Who knows, this may be a bannable question, and only you and not the other memebrs of the mod team.

[Joha]

Weren't you in agreement with this 'half witted baboon' in another thread?

Must take one to know one. ;)

Touché

hey....I was only pointing out the absurdity in your comment :)

[RazielTemp]

Interesting :rolleyes:

Question: Is there any real difference between Lord Summerisle and a half witted baboon?

Comment: The Question has been asked, there must be a very fine line between the two. Perhaps there isn't one.

there is akhi, a Baboon does what it was created for, Summerile doesn't ...

but I know what you mean akhi, and won't argue with you in this regard ...

:jkk:

[Lord Summerisle]

there is akhi, a Baboon does what it was created for, Summerile doesn't ...

but I know what you mean akhi, and won't argue with you in this regard ...

:jkk:

Of course I do. I'm here irritating you, aren't I?

[Omar Mukhtar]

LS do you even know what shirk is?

[Lord Summerisle]

LS do you even know what shirk is?

Rejecting Allah and worshipping any other God/idol etc.

[mamadu]

here, there are only but so many times we are going to discuss "if there is a god" or "is gayness ok" or some of the other things you seem to want to be repetitive

i dont know about the infracting system, i will leave it up to one of the other mods, but take this is a first warningHey, what's the problem ? if you don't want to discuss the existence of God, then don't. Just let others who are interested take part in the discussion.

What weird religious forum is this, where you cannot even discuss the existence of God ?

[AbuMubarak]

what weird posters we have, they see that we do not want to discuss the existence of god and instead of packing up and going elsewhere, they post threads complaining

[mamadu]

what weird posters we have, they see that we do not want to discuss the existence of god and instead of packing up and going elsewhere, they post threads complainingOK, you don't want to discuss the existence of God.

Does this mean that no one here wants to discuss the existence of God ? and, is not allowing to discuss the existence of God official policy on this forum ?

[(*_Hamzah]

Categories of Shirk

Just as there are different areas of Tawhid, there are also different types of Shirk which all Muslims should take care to avoid.

Shirk by Association
This is a denial of Tawhid ar-Rububiyah by means of associating equal or lesser partners to Allah. For example, Hindus worship one creator of the universe named Brahman, but they join him in a trinity with a preserver god named Vishnu, and a destroyer god named Shiva. Another example can be found in christianity, where Allah is joined with the Prophet Isa (AS) and the 'holy spirit' (who is said to exercise Allah's will on earth). Other examples of this type of shirk is found in the Zoroastrian, Yoruba and Zulu faiths, in which a supreme god is joined with lesser deities.

Shirk by Negation
This is a denial of Tawhid ar-Rububiyah by means of denying the existence of Allah altogether. Most obviously, this is a sin commited by Atheists and those who follow faiths which deny the existence of Allah, such as Buddhism.

Shirk by Humanisation
This is a denial of Tawhid al-Asmaa was-Sifaat by means of giving human attributes to Allah. One example (which was mentioned above) is the biblical notion that Allah feels fatigue, so much so that after He created the universe, He needed to take a rest for an entire day! This is refuted in Ayat Al-Kursi.

Shirk by Deification
This is a denial of Tawhid al-Asmaa was-Sifaat by means of giving divine names or attributes to any of Allah's creations. In his book, Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips mentions that during Muhammad's time, there was a false prophet named Yamamah who called himself 'Rahman', a name which only belongs to Allah and can only be used by people if 'Abdul' is prefixed to it.

Propounders of the evolution theory also commit this error. Darwinists maintain that life emerged from inanimate matter with no divine intervention (in other words, inaminate matter is the Creator of all life!), and that lifeforms are able to transform themselves over time. The evolution theory has been refuted by scientists ever since it first surfaced - Harun Yahya has written a number of excellent books on this subject.

Ash-Shirk al-Akbar (Major Shirk)
This is a denial of Tawhid al-'Ibadah in which acts of worship are directed towards others instead of Allah - this can be praying to prophets, saints, celestial objects, idols etc. This is the worst sin anyone can commit is it denies the very reason of our existence

http://www.bahagia.btinternet.co.uk/tawhid.htm

[(*_Hamzah]

The Sufis of the Chishti Qadhiri Tariqa (tradition) have classified Shirk into four categories and have explained them. You cannot learn these things without the guidance of a kamil (perfect) shaikh.

The four types of Shirk are:

Shirke Ismi or Shirke Jali
Shirke Fi’li or Shirke Kafi
Shirke vasfi or Shirke Akhfa
Shirke Zaathi or Shirke Khafiyyul Akhfa
Shirke Ismi or Jali:

This is the most dreaded Shirk. It is associating Ghairullah (anything other than Allah) with Allah in worship; accepting Ghairullah as fit to be worshipped or worshipping Ghairullah. One has to be clear of this Shirk to become a Muslim. If a Muslim falls in this Shirk, all his previous good deeds will be wiped off (habthe a’mal). May Allah save us all from this.

Shirke fi’li or kafi:

This is a latif (delicate) shirk, which most of us do practice, unknowingly. This does not make one a Mushrik , who Allah censures in the Qur’an but, it does deprive the dharajaths (high positions in Allah’s sight) in the path of Sulook (way towards Allah).

This Shirk is believing or thinking that Ghairullah can give us profit or loss, victory or defeat, good or bad on their own; believing that a Ghairullah, be it a Prophet or a Vali (friend of Allah) can give us gain or loss or act without the power of Allah.

Allah says in the Qur’an, "la hawla wa la quwwatha illa billah" (there is no power other than the one with Allah). Yes, no one can act on their own, whatever their status, except with the power and help of Allah. It is Allah who is helping us to act; even the smallest movement of our fingers is due to Allah providing us His power. The Mu’jizas and Karamath’s (miracles) of the Prophet’s and Awliya are but the manifestation of Allah’s power through them. If anyone thought that they did it on their own, he falls in Shirke Fi’li. In truth, they perform it with the help of Allah. Praying for the sake of Jannath (heaven) or fearing Jahannam (hell) or Riya (acting to satisfy Ghairullah) also come under this category of Shirk.

Shirke Vasfi or Akhfa:

It is the Shirk that involves the Zaathi Sifath (own characteristics) of Allah. It is thinking or believing that the Ummuhathus Sifath (mother of all characteristics), Hayath, Ilm, Iradha, Khudhrath, sama’ath, basarath and kalam (explained in the article on kalima) that we find in the creatures are their own. They are in fact Allah’s and He has been merciful to manifest them on His creatures. At this point I would like to mention that Allah sees without eyes, hears without ears, speaks without mouth or sound; His action is without movement.

This Shirk will hinder the ascension of the salik to higher grades of Makame Kurb (status of nearness to Allah).

Shirke Zaathi or Khafiyul Akhfa:

Only the great saints and awliya have been saved from this Shirk. It is believing or accepting the very existence of Creatures of their own. They exist only due to the subsistence (ujoodh) of Allah. Creatures are but a form that don’t have anything and Allah supports them with his ujoodh. Shunning from this Shirk is of the very highest grade of Iman (belief) and those who are encompassed in this Shirk are denied the state of Shuhoodh or Ihsan. :rolleyes:


http://www.geocities.com/athens/Olympus/5352/shirk.htm

[AbuMubarak]

OK, you don't want to discuss the existence of God.

Does this mean that no one here wants to discuss the existence of God ? and, is not allowing to discuss the existence of God official policy on this forum ?there is no policy where we are not allowed to discuss it

the problem comes that WE BELIEVE in a god, and its based upon not only the book but our understanding of the observations around us

people who do not believe in a god basically have the understanding that there is no god, and the things around us can be explained other ways

the conversation is rather short

we can debate it all day long, and if there is ONE thread that discusses it, by all means you can post in it, or make a new ONE

but..............we are not going to have someone, on every post, of every thread, when we praise the existence of god, they say.......but there is no god

that is a waste of our time and yours

so if you do not believe, and we do believe, then there isnt much to say after that, now is there?