To forgive or not to forgive

[maryam_hu]

My husband committed zina after a good few years of marriage.

I took him back because i have children with him - i know a lot of people don't agree with this but that's enough reason for me...

i probably still love him too - another reason?

It's a major struggle though, to pick things up from here and rebuild the trust, love, friendship, etc. between us.

He is regretful for what he did - it doesn't bother me at this stage if he is or not, i just want to get through this life now in the quickest and most painless way possible....and hopefully keep my eyes on the hereafter, afterall that's where real happiness and success lies...

so my question is, is forgiveness neccessary to lead a normal life? and if so how do you forgive a person who betrayed you in the worst possible way? what rewards are there for those who forgive - i'm looking for an incentive here...is it worth my while to forgive and forget?

Has anyone even been through this and is there any advice they can give me?

[PK Aali]

Guys are players...

[PiElle2]

it's good you can forgive, many people can't... that's why there are so many broken families out there... everyone needs a family... the other concern is, tho... is hopefully your hubby didn't contract any disease from his fling... better you both go for a medical check up...

[Raashid]

Don't forgive. Under Islamic law he would be stoned to death so why is he deserving of forgiveness? He may have contracted a disease and the fact that he's been in a situation where it was possible for him to do it suggests he doesn't live under Islamic etiquettes generally. Break free of this corrupt man, I think you couldn't be happy in this life and what sort of influence on your kids? Some of them may grow up thinking, well dad did zina and it was all forgiven, why shouldn't I?

[PiElle2]

Don't forgive. Under Islamic law he would be stoned to death so why is he deserving of forgiveness? He may have contracted a disease and the fact that he's been in a situation where it was possible for him to do it suggests he doesn't live under Islamic etiquettes generally. Break free of this corrupt man, I think you couldn't be happy in this life and what sort of influence on your kids? Some of them may grow up thinking, well dad did zina and it was all forgiven, why shouldn't I?

Excuse me, he would only be stoned to death if his adultery act was witnessed by 4 mature adults. He is to be forgiven if others forgive him, unless he cannot forgive himself, then he can seek his own punishment.

It takes a corrupted mind to think other people are corrupted.

Do you know you would be responsible on judgement day if you are the reason for the break-up of a family...?

[Danniella]

One of the moral traits recommended in the Qur’an is forgiveness:

Hold to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the ignorant. (Qur’an, 7: 199)

In another verse Allah commands: “… They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love Allah to forgive you? Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Qur’an, 24:22)

Those who do not abide by the moral values of the Qur’an find it very difficult to forgive others. Because, they are easily angered by any error committed. However, Allah has advised the faithful that forgiveness is more proper:
The repayment of a bad action is one equivalent to it. But if someone pardons and puts things right, his reward is with Allah… (Qur’an, 42:40)

... But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Qur’an, 64: 14)

It has also been revealed in the Qur’an that forgiveness is a superior moral trait: “But if someone is steadfast and forgives, that is the most resolute course to follow.” (Qur’an, 42:43) For that reason, believers are forgiving, compassionate and tolerant people who, as revealed in the Qur’an, “control their rage and pardon other people.” (Qur’an, 3:134)

But bear in mind...you can forgive but it does not necessarily mean you should continue living with the person who has caused so much destruction. That is entirely your choice. But only make the choice for the right reasons and not out of fear for the future.

[Zesty]

Don't forgive. Under Islamic law he would be stoned to death so why is he deserving of forgiveness? He may have contracted a disease and the fact that he's been in a situation where it was possible for him to do it suggests he doesn't live under Islamic etiquettes generally. Break free of this corrupt man, I think you couldn't be happy in this life and what sort of influence on your kids? Some of them may grow up thinking, well dad did zina and it was all forgiven, why shouldn't I?

Im not advocationg that what he did is something to be taken lightly or suggesting that she should just forget about it (which she isnt going to be able to do anyway as its quite a huge thing)! but are we not told to forgive people for their sins/mistakes? Allah (swt) says that we should show mercy to the people on the earth that that He who is in the heavens will show mercy to us.

We are not free from sin and mistakes and we should be worried about what we have done wrong as we are going to be taken to account on the day of Judgement. Now sure, if we lived under Shariah law then yes i agree- he should be stoned to death! Zina is a major sin in Islam and the repurcussions are severe on the spouse and remainding family members.

It must be the most difficult thing for a spouse to come to terms with because this is the person they put their entire trust in. This is the one person who isnt meant to let you down. Yet when this very person goes and breaks you in such a way- its hard to accept in yoru heart that you can overlook and come to terms with such a betrayal. In my opinion its harder for muslim women because of the stigma attached to her leaving the husband (even moreso if they have children) even if it may be the husbands fault.

However if she feels this is best for her children (and yes, a number of woman stay in such relationships purely because of their children) and she still loves him and feels she can make it work if she tries to look beyind his mistake, then inshaAllah she should give it a try. Her reward is with Allah (swt) and maybe this struggle will be a means of becomming closer to Allah (swt) and attaining Jannah.

Im NOT in any way suggesting that its something easy to forgive or overlook, nor am i saying children who grow up in single parent households have issues etc (they can infact feel more loved and have a healthier state of mind if they are away from continuous disputes, arguements and a home full of an "atmosphere"), all i am saying is that IF he genuinely made a mistake, if he admitted his faults and showed great remorse, if you feel you can build a loving and trusting relationship with him once again, feel you love him and think its best for your children then inshaAllah i pray that Allah (swt) makes it easy for you, gives you the sabr, makes this a means of you becoming closer to Him and attaining Jannah. Ameen.

No one can make this decision except yourself. As a woman i think i would find it incredibely difficult to overcome such a situation, but then different people deal with things in different ways and if we sit back and think we can usually figure out what is best for us!

[Chained_Water]

If you've decided to stay with him already.. then there is really no benefit in not forgiving him, it will only harm you and your marriage and your children if you hold onto what he did..

You're staying with him, so forgive him and move on together if you can inshaAllah.

[Al-Farooq]

This is something you can only decide for yourself, the opinions of others are irrelevant.

Also, whether you forgive him or not, the most pertinent issue is whether you should stay with him.

You have to decide if you can learn to trust him again, rebuild the relationship and develop feelings of love and attraction for him again, despite what he has done.....and then you will have your answer insha'Allah.

I hope whatever you decide is what's best for you and your children.:)

[xXammatullahXx]

:salams
if you have made up your mind and decided to stay with him then for you not 2 forgive him would be detrimental to your relationship.
sometimes we look at these sins as huge,which of course they are but there are many types of zina,zina of the mind,zina of the heart,zina of the tongue,zina of the ears etc...
at the end of the day we should look inside ourselves and see wether we have ever gazed at the opposite gender in a lustful manner,if we have then we 2 have also committed a form of zina,or if we have ever spoken to a member of the opposite gender when there was no need to do so,if so then we have also committed a form of zina...
so now for those of us that are included in these examples what would we do if ALLAH :Swt: was to tell us that you are not forgiven?even after we show remorse and ask for forgivness?
i no before i came to islam i lived a life of sin,and throughout my changing my life i have just hoped that all my past sins would be forgiven and this is how i manage to stay firm,otherwise i would collapse thinking there is no point doing good deeds because ive got 2 many sins.

a mu'min flys on 2 wings hope and fear:hope of ALLAH :Swt:'s forgivness and fear of his punishment

[curiousmind]

Masha'Allah...you are a strong woman. Insha'Allah your struggle to get beyond this in your marriage will get easier.

I have had my ex betray me in this way but he ended the relationship before I could get a chance...had I had the chance, I probably would have done like you.

But...my Sister had this happen to her last year. She found out her husband had been having an affair for almost 9 months. She chose to take him back and forgive. At first everyone else was calling her crazy and all that...not me though, she loved him still and I believe he was sincere in his apology and would not do it again.

She struggles everyday with this. It makes her crazy some days because she is constantly thinking where is he and what is he doing. Also, she fears he will do it again.

Anyhow, she did seek therapy for this and the therapists told her that forgiveness will come in time. That he will need to try very hard to prove to her that this was a one time thing and that he is sorry. AND..at the same time she must TRY to accept his word. Which is difficult for her to do.

She also suggested they find out the reason he did this in the first place. Your spouse just doesn't all of a sudden seek attention in other ways for no reason. They both figured out that each other was missing something. He reached out to that other woman for comfort, attention, and just an ear to listen to his troubles and eventually it lead to the affair.

So my suggestion to you is...try very hard to accept his apology no matter how hard it may be. Try to accept the fact that if he wanted to be somewhere else, he would be at this moment...but he is with you now and is sorry for what he has done. Hard as it may be, you have to give him credit for that.
Also, talk to him. Find out what it is that was lacking in your marriage, in your relationship that made it so easy for him to betray you. Perhaps he was missing something in life with you and both of you didn't realize it.

Also, talk to him and tell him how hard this is for you. Tell him that he is going to have to deal with you asking questions, being angry out of the blue, and not forgetting this. He will have to understand this.

Adultry in a marriage is one of the hardest things to get passed, BUT IT IS POSSIBLE. I see it with my sister and her husband. Sure she has her days when she goes off on him and screams and yells, but he has come to expect this from her and knows how much this has hurt her...so he allows her to express her feelings like this. Then after she calms down, he goes to her and tries all that he can to make her feel better. Communication is the key in this situation. Before the therapists..he probably would have never done that, instead they would have gotten in screaming matches. But he learned that this was something that HE broke..and now HE has to be man enough to swallow his pride and FIX it.(which is by listening to her feelings and acknowledge them)

Sister, you have had every woman's nightmare happen to you, and the fact that you were able to go on and try to make this work is nothing short of admirable...not a lot of woman could do this. You need to give yourself credit and you need to give yourself TIME. You need to try and communicate with your husband on a deeper level so that YOU BOTH can start working to get passed this.

Ignoring it and just wishing for the afterlife and striving for that will not help you in your days here in this life. You will be miserable. You have suffered enough..now the only thing you can do is try to get passes this and eventually, as time goes on and things get better, you may be able to forgive him. But it will take a long time. I say don't worry. Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows what is in your heart and knows that this forgiveness will need time ... after you begin to heal.

I wish you all the best and I will pray for you. Please take care of yourself and try to talk with him and find out how the two of you can go from here. WHat happened, happened..and you cannot re-live that day over and over again each day because you will miss out on your present days.

MaSalaama

[maryam_hu]

Don't forgive. Under Islamic law he would be stoned to death so why is he deserving of forgiveness? He may have contracted a disease and the fact that he's been in a situation where it was possible for him to do it suggests he doesn't live under Islamic etiquettes generally. Break free of this corrupt man, I think you couldn't be happy in this life and what sort of influence on your kids? Some of them may grow up thinking, well dad did zina and it was all forgiven, why shouldn't I?

i'm hoping our kids will never find out. My husband has the desire to lead a life on deen again (as he once did) but his actions have taken both him and myself far from deen. I find myself moving very far from Allah and mostly full of anger, resentment and pain. But at the same time, i want to keep my family together and lead a "normal" life for my children. So my objective here i guess is to work out how to move on from what he did, leave it behind and that's where forgiveness comes in i guess...

[Mace]

Some of them may grow up thinking, well dad did zina and it was all forgiven, why shouldn't I?

If the threat of punishment (without forgiveness) is the only reason my kids don't cheat on their spouses it means (a) they don't love their spouses and (b) I've failed as a father.

[maryam_hu]

One of the moral traits recommended in the Qur’an is forgiveness:

Hold to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the ignorant. (Qur’an, 7: 199)

In another verse Allah commands: “… They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love Allah to forgive you? Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Qur’an, 24:22)

Those who do not abide by the moral values of the Qur’an find it very difficult to forgive others. Because, they are easily angered by any error committed. However, Allah has advised the faithful that forgiveness is more proper:
The repayment of a bad action is one equivalent to it. But if someone pardons and puts things right, his reward is with Allah… (Qur’an, 42:40)

... But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Qur’an, 64: 14)

It has also been revealed in the Qur’an that forgiveness is a superior moral trait: “But if someone is steadfast and forgives, that is the most resolute course to follow.” (Qur’an, 42:43) For that reason, believers are forgiving, compassionate and tolerant people who, as revealed in the Qur’an, “control their rage and pardon other people.” (Qur’an, 3:134)

But bear in mind...you can forgive but it does not necessarily mean you should continue living with the person who has caused so much destruction. That is entirely your choice. But only make the choice for the right reasons and not out of fear for the future.

hmm.. that's given me a lot to think about. I now why i am still with him...children being the main reason...my children are very close to him and we have brought them up with the mindset that family is very important. I think it would break their heart more than mine if i was to leave my husband and i dont think i could bear that.

My goal is to forgive and after reading about the virtues of forgiveness i make a mental decision to forgive him because, well, the rewards are so huge and this is my chance to earn jannah maybe? but after a few days, i'm back to square one and find myself feeling angry and worked up again. its like a cycle i cant snap out of right now.

[maryam_hu]

Im not advocationg that what he did is something to be taken lightly or suggesting that she should just forget about it (which she isnt going to be able to do anyway as its quite a huge thing)! but are we not told to forgive people for their sins/mistakes? Allah (swt) says that we should show mercy to the people on the earth that that He who is in the heavens will show mercy to us.

We are not free from sin and mistakes and we should be worried about what we have done wrong as we are going to be taken to account on the day of Judgement. Now sure, if we lived under Shariah law then yes i agree- he should be stoned to death! Zina is a major sin in Islam and the repurcussions are severe on the spouse and remainding family members.

It must be the most difficult thing for a spouse to come to terms with because this is the person they put their entire trust in. This is the one person who isnt meant to let you down. Yet when this very person goes and breaks you in such a way- its hard to accept in yoru heart that you can overlook and come to terms with such a betrayal. In my opinion its harder for muslim women because of the stigma attached to her leaving the husband (even moreso if they have children) even if it may be the husbands fault.

However if she feels this is best for her children (and yes, a number of woman stay in such relationships purely because of their children) and she still loves him and feels she can make it work if she tries to look beyind his mistake, then inshaAllah she should give it a try. Her reward is with Allah (swt) and maybe this struggle will be a means of becomming closer to Allah (swt) and attaining Jannah.

Im NOT in any way suggesting that its something easy to forgive or overlook, nor am i saying children who grow up in single parent households have issues etc (they can infact feel more loved and have a healthier state of mind if they are away from continuous disputes, arguements and a home full of an "atmosphere"), all i am saying is that IF he genuinely made a mistake, if he admitted his faults and showed great remorse, if you feel you can build a loving and trusting relationship with him once again, feel you love him and think its best for your children then inshaAllah i pray that Allah (swt) makes it easy for you, gives you the sabr, makes this a means of you becoming closer to Him and attaining Jannah. Ameen.

No one can make this decision except yourself. As a woman i think i would find it incredibely difficult to overcome such a situation, but then different people deal with things in different ways and if we sit back and think we can usually figure out what is best for us!

thanks for your words sis...

before this happened i thought it was something impossible and totally outside the capability of my husband, and if someone asked me then, how would you feel if your husband cheated on you, i would immediately think that i don't have the capacity to deal with such a big blow....but it did happen and that's that....nothing i can do to make it change and once you're thrown in the deep end, you stretch yourself that little further to deal with it.

I am willing so much to get on with things but like i mentioned before things may go ok for a week or so and then i get really bogged down by it all and we argue, and it just goes round and round. i need to snap out of it and since i have decided to keep my family together i have to see it through to the end which takes me back to forgiveness again - it being the only solution to this whole mess.

[maryam_hu]

Masha'Allah...you are a strong woman. Insha'Allah your struggle to get beyond this in your marriage will get easier.

I have had my ex betray me in this way but he ended the relationship before I could get a chance...had I had the chance, I probably would have done like you.

But...my Sister had this happen to her last year. She found out her husband had been having an affair for almost 9 months. She chose to take him back and forgive. At first everyone else was calling her crazy and all that...not me though, she loved him still and I believe he was sincere in his apology and would not do it again.

She struggles everyday with this. It makes her crazy some days because she is constantly thinking where is he and what is he doing. Also, she fears he will do it again.

Anyhow, she did seek therapy for this and the therapists told her that forgiveness will come in time. That he will need to try very hard to prove to her that this was a one time thing and that he is sorry. AND..at the same time she must TRY to accept his word. Which is difficult for her to do.

She also suggested they find out the reason he did this in the first place. Your spouse just doesn't all of a sudden seek attention in other ways for no reason. They both figured out that each other was missing something. He reached out to that other woman for comfort, attention, and just an ear to listen to his troubles and eventually it lead to the affair.

So my suggestion to you is...try very hard to accept his apology no matter how hard it may be. Try to accept the fact that if he wanted to be somewhere else, he would be at this moment...but he is with you now and is sorry for what he has done. Hard as it may be, you have to give him credit for that.
Also, talk to him. Find out what it is that was lacking in your marriage, in your relationship that made it so easy for him to betray you. Perhaps he was missing something in life with you and both of you didn't realize it.

Also, talk to him and tell him how hard this is for you. Tell him that he is going to have to deal with you asking questions, being angry out of the blue, and not forgetting this. He will have to understand this.

Adultry in a marriage is one of the hardest things to get passed, BUT IT IS POSSIBLE. I see it with my sister and her husband. Sure she has her days when she goes off on him and screams and yells, but he has come to expect this from her and knows how much this has hurt her...so he allows her to express her feelings like this. Then after she calms down, he goes to her and tries all that he can to make her feel better. Communication is the key in this situation. Before the therapists..he probably would have never done that, instead they would have gotten in screaming matches. But he learned that this was something that HE broke..and now HE has to be man enough to swallow his pride and FIX it.(which is by listening to her feelings and acknowledge them)

Sister, you have had every woman's nightmare happen to you, and the fact that you were able to go on and try to make this work is nothing short of admirable...not a lot of woman could do this. You need to give yourself credit and you need to give yourself TIME. You need to try and communicate with your husband on a deeper level so that YOU BOTH can start working to get passed this.

Ignoring it and just wishing for the afterlife and striving for that will not help you in your days here in this life. You will be miserable. You have suffered enough..now the only thing you can do is try to get passes this and eventually, as time goes on and things get better, you may be able to forgive him. But it will take a long time. I say don't worry. Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows what is in your heart and knows that this forgiveness will need time ... after you begin to heal.

I wish you all the best and I will pray for you. Please take care of yourself and try to talk with him and find out how the two of you can go from here. WHat happened, happened..and you cannot re-live that day over and over again each day because you will miss out on your present days.

MaSalaama

Thanks sis...you made me cry :o

i have suggested we get some councelling from the mosque but its just one of those things that gets put on the back burner....

do you think for things like this time is the best healer and forgiveness will come itself?

i mean i get really confused about the whole issue to an extent where i fail to understand what forgiveness is....maybe i'm thinking on it too much? Do you just one day wake up and forgive and forget everything? does forgiveness mean that you no longer feel angry and upset?

[maryam_hu]

another thing i'm struggling with is my opinion on men....

i have a very low opinion of them since my husband betrayed me. i know that not all men will be the same but my father cheated on my mother and most men i know (relatives, etc) are just such selfish, greedy, lying, sly characters. there are traits in men that are so common, i feel they are very weak esp when it come to women. i know i shouldn't tar all men with the same brush but i cant help it.

especially with religious men, i am extremely cautious and untrusting of them in general, i.e. i think the worst of them...

i hope there are good men out there also

[Genghis]

Guys are players...

Dont speak for all of us :up:

[Genghis]

another thing i'm struggling with is my opinion on men....

i have a very low opinion of them since my husband betrayed me. i know that not all men will be the same but my father cheated on my mother and most men i know (relatives, etc) are just such selfish, greedy, lying, sly characters. there are traits in men that are so common, i feel they are very weak esp when it come to women. i know i shouldn't tar all men with the same brush but i cant help it.

especially with religious men, i am extremely cautious and untrusting of them in general, i.e. i think the worst of them...

i hope there are good men out there also

Ok Sister Maryam.. I am really sorry for what you are currently going through.. there was and is no excuse for what your husband done..

But trust me I may only be 16... but whilst most of my friends etc.. always look at girls chat to them lie always go around with loads etc.

I always lower my gaze never look at women in the wrong way.. I have the utmost respect for all women,

I never lie I am trustworthy..

I know the world we are currently living in makes you question everyone..,

But trust me there's always righteous and bad people.. in no way am I saying your husband is un righteous... but inshallah take in mind your kids and think about paradise..

I really am saying Mahshallah because of the way you have reacted.. Inshallah may you find peace you are a great honourable woman,

Inshallah sister you will get over this,

May Allah assist you through this hard time :up:

[curiousmind]

Thanks sis...you made me cry :o

i have suggested we get some councelling from the mosque but its just one of those things that gets put on the back burner....

do you think for things like this time is the best healer and forgiveness will come itself?

i mean i get really confused about the whole issue to an extent where i fail to understand what forgiveness is....maybe i'm thinking on it too much? Do you just one day wake up and forgive and forget everything? does forgiveness mean that you no longer feel angry and upset?

Insha'Allah you are well Sister. Before I TRY to answer you, can I just say again what a strong woman I think you are. Really! I am truly inspired by women who have had the worst things done to them and yet still are able to hold their head up. Surely Allah subhana wa ta'ala will bless you for your efforts.

Now let's see. Do I know what forgiveness actually is? Or if time does in fact allow it to take place? mmm...I am not sure for everyone. Like I said, my Sister struggles with this daily, but I do see her better now than two months ago..and I am sure in two more months, I will see her even better.

Let me tell you something if I may. I was married for 13 1.2 years to my first husband. He was all I knew. We had three children together. Life was going along as it should then in April of 04 I noticed a drastic change in his behaviour. Staying at work till late at night, joined a gym, started wearing button up shirts(he was always a t-shirt man)..though I suspected something, I didnt have proof and thought I was just making something out of nothing.

I came home for vacation that summer(we lived out of the US at the time) I tried to go back home after my visit(to him) and my tickets were canceled. I called him very concerned thinking that the travel agency made a mistake. I called him several times in fact. The first few times he lied to me and said he didn't know what was going on and he would contact them to resolve the problem. Then after a week past my return date..I called him one night to ask if he figured it out and when would he be emailing me our reservations. He came right out and said this

Him - "I canceled the tickets"
Me- (confused) "why would you do that?"
Him - "because I don't love you anymore...I have nothing in life because of you...I never wanted three kids and I was forced to take care of the kids YOU wanted..not me...and also, I am in love with her"

SO needless to say, I was devestated. And just like that..he ended it. I called and called...called his parents...I got nothing. He basically cut all contact with me and the kids.
He came about 4 months later and filed for divorce without the kids and I even knowing he was in town. The kids were extremely upset. They didn't know why they couldn't go home..they didn't know why they couldn't get their things? Where was their father and why wasn't he calling..
And as you can imagine..it just got worse..

SO the point to all this?
I hated him. I hated him so much when he did that to me and the kids. I had no job experience because I Was a stay at home mom(what HE wanted me to be) I had no college education because I married him as soon as I turned 18 and got pregnant right away and just life always prevented me from returning..so I was stuck in my parents home with three children and trying to figure out how I will provide for them. SO yeah...hate is probably putting it lightly...
BUT...while everyone was hating him along with me..something happened to me. I distracted myself with trying to do what was best for my children. He eventually started to call and I would only say a quick hi and that was it. Why I did not yell at him is still a mystery. And I tell you Dear Sister, eventually over time...I just let it go.

I just let it go and came to terms with it. I don't hate anymore. Matter of fact, I still love him because he is the Father of my children. I don't love him like that of course..but I have love for him. And now, I harbor no ill feelings towards him. Even when I was hating him to most...the one thing I never did was talk bad about him to or in front of my kids. I think this helped me somewhat. You see...I stopped focusing on what he did..and instead, I focused on his good qualities and tried to always tell them to the children. I didn't want them to hate him or think bad of him. In doing this...in PRAYING about this...Allah subhana wa ta'ala just lifted any of those bad feelings from me.

Today, I can honestly say...after all this time..I forgive him. I do not think about what he has done to us...instead, I let it go and think about how much he tries now to make up for what he has done to his children. And it's not that I just ignore what he has done..I can't! He is about to marry the woman he left us for..BUT..I don't know, just there is honestly NO BAD FEELINGS for him in my heart. So I assume that this is what forgiveness is??!!

I truly believe that if you try to accept his apology and try to not GROUP him with ALL THE OTHER MEN WHO HAVE DONE THIS...and pray about it...you will heal. Your heart will heal and you will someday wake up and know that even though you remember this time as if it was yesterday, you no longer hurt like you did yesterday. You will be able to look at him and smile and see the good in him and that's when you will know you have in fact forgiven him.

I must say this though...if he doesn't want counceling...then you will need to try really hard to make him understand and asknowledge your feelings and to HAVE PATIENCE WITH YOU regarding them. HE BROKE THIS..NOT YOU..so he will need to accept things this way and try to SHOW you through his ACTIONS that he is truly regretful of what he has done.

I will make Du'a for you and pray that everything will be ok and that you will someday come to find that peace in your haert and mind that comes with time, prayer, and forgiveness. Insha'Allah

MaSalaama

[afsalim]

My husband committed zina after a good few years of marriage.

I took him back because i have children with him - i know a lot of people don't agree with this but that's enough reason for me...

i probably still love him too - another reason?

It's a major struggle though, to pick things up from here and rebuild the trust, love, friendship, etc. between us.

He is regretful for what he did - it doesn't bother me at this stage if he is or not, i just want to get through this life now in the quickest and most painless way possible....and hopefully keep my eyes on the hereafter, afterall that's where real happiness and success lies...

so my question is, is forgiveness neccessary to lead a normal life? and if so how do you forgive a person who betrayed you in the worst possible way? what rewards are there for those who forgive - i'm looking for an incentive here...is it worth my while to forgive and forget?

Has anyone even been through this and is there any advice they can give me?

In my view, Adultery is a sin that cannot and should not be forgiven. However, if he truly regrets his actions and if you feel he's serious this time, give him another chance. If you don't, it will be understandable.

On your question regarding forgiveness, yes...it is necessary and is an essential trait of a Muslim. By forgiving someone for a sin, you are proving to him that you are a better human being than him.

[Kal-El]

Excuse me, he would only be stoned to death if his adultery act was witnessed by 4 mature adults. He is to be forgiven if others forgive him, unless he cannot forgive himself, then he can seek his own punishment.

It takes a corrupted mind to think other people are corrupted.

Do you know you would be responsible on judgement day if you are the reason for the break-up of a family...?

Does it make any difference if he was seen doing it or not when he himself confesses it?

[Kal-El]

Sister you cannot live with a spouse member under the premise that you wont ever be really happy with him. You need to forgive someone to move on, you cannot live with the memory in acceptance and share a bed with him at the same time.

Yet for his crime, it is unforgivable. Having sex with someone is not a mistake, it is a choice made to go through that with another person. Bumping into someone in the street, forgetting where your wallet is, those are mistakes because they happen unintentionally and instantly. We can all agree on the process of sleeping with someone takes a bit longer than that, he made the choice to continue to lust after this woman, made the choice to make the intention of sleeping with her, made the choice of going up to her to flirt and then calculated where and when to do it, and did the deed there and then. And after he was satisfied and the excitement died, he went back home to you.

That is unforgivable in my opinion, people get killed for this kind of stuff in places around the world, not just based on religion, but dignity. There are some who subscribe to the culture of killing both of them. In my opinion he's already left you a long time ago to be able to do this.

[Kal-El]

I think the most unforgivable thing in this world is how some women can forgive such unfaithful men who don't care enough about them and they're marriages to drool over the scent of other women, whilst there are honourable and sincere men who truly wouldn't do such a thing yet are walking on deserts and streets without a hope of finding someone to share their life with. And here you are thinking you may be happy one day, or maybe not, and refuse yourself the freedom and god given right to end your suffering.

If you want to stay with such a man, very well, you're a strong woman to accept that but you won't win any moral support or admiration for forgiving a Muslim adulterer and staying in such an explosive marriage.

[Raashid]

Sister you cannot live with a spouse member under the premise that you wont ever be really happy with him. You need to forgive someone to move on, you cannot live with the memory in acceptance and share a bed with him at the same time.

Yet for his crime, it is unforgivable. Having sex with someone is not a mistake, it is a choice made to go through that with another person. Bumping into someone in the street, forgetting where your wallet is, those are mistakes because they happen unintentionally and instantly. We can all agree on the process of sleeping with someone takes a bit longer than that, he made the choice to continue to lust after this woman, made the choice to make the intention of sleeping with her, made the choice of going up to her to flirt and then calculated where and when to do it, and did the deed there and then. And after he was satisfied and the excitement died, he went back home to you.

That is unforgivable in my opinion, people get killed for this kind of stuff in places around the world, not just based on religion, but dignity. There are some who subscribe to the culture of killing both of them. In my opinion he's already left you a long time ago to be able to do this.

:up:
Hear, hear that's what I was getting at. Adultery isn't just a mistake that you fall into unintentionally, unless they got shipwrecked on an island or something. He made a concious decision to pursue this action.

[miss-islamic]

No advice is better than bad advice. Once you are married and have kids then talk, kal-el. You’re so arrogant with your posts, it’s not even funny. If Islam has a leeway for murderers to be forgiven by the victim’s family then, yes, there is a leeway for adulterers to be forgiven by the victim (not referring to in the case of Islamic state). Or anything else for that matter.

[Mace]

No advice is better than bad advice. Once you are married and have kids then talk, kal-el. You’re so arrogant with your posts, it’s not even funny. If Islam has a leeway for murderers to be forgiven by the victim’s family then, yes, there is a leeway for adulterers to be forgiven by the victim (not referring to in the case of Islamic state). Or anything else for that matter.

Yes, perhaps this is the subject of another thread. But I'm still trying to understand why people think that forgiveness is important and then say that certain sins cannot be forgiven. I'd at least like to understand what criteria people use to determine which sins can be forgiven and which cannot.

To say that only "accidents" can be forgiven seems to be quite strange to me.

Again, perhaps this is a subject for another thread...

[Kal-El]

No advice is better than bad advice. Once you are married and have kids then talk, kal-el. You’re so arrogant with your posts, it’s not even funny. If Islam has a leeway for murderers to be forgiven by the victim’s family then, yes, there is a leeway for adulterers to be forgiven by the victim (not referring to in the case of Islamic state). Or anything else for that matter.

I gave my opinion, she has decided to remain with her husband and I could care less whether or not she stays or goes but her issue wasn't about that decision; it was about whether or not she has to forgive him to have some content or happiness in her marriage.

Answer is no. She can never have that content and happiness with him because of what he did, and it shows as they constantly fight about it. She can't drop it, and it's understandable. It makes the pain even worst that she is married to him, they're a family together and he gave the ultimate betrayal of not only the sanctity of marriage but the love of which was spurning between two of Allah's creations and you criticise me because I'm straight up and honest?

I'm sick of people here kissing hands of others. These couples here asking for an opinion and advice and I for one value marriage exponentially, and therefore I give them gods honest truth. A few weeks ago we had someone here confessing that she was sleeping around with this man, whilst her husband was away, and then as a result got pregnant and everyone was crying for her. Pathetic.

The problem some of you need to understand is that way often people are too sentimental and romantic, crying songs of Sabr and preachings Ayadhs from the Holy Quran of the rewards of marriage to understand in the meantime these people are falling apart with the pain and hurt of trying to imagine another moment where the sunlight hits their skin marking a new day, another day of the same thing, looking at that person and losing themselves to depression - so don't tell me I'm arrogant because I can appreciate, value, and defend passionately the right to be loved, and treated with that love.

I've seen fathers forgive men who have killed their children. Trouble is for the rest of us, when it is ethical to pray for that they have that forgiveness in them? When is the time to remain silent when someone asks "should I forgive my husband/wife?". It is up to them, but if they cannot save the marriage or recover a scent of joy from that forgiveness, can it ever truly be forgiveness? No it cannot because it is still cutting through her like a blunt knife.

You think I get joy out of telling people they're marriages are hanging on a string soaked with falsehood? Do you think I get on a high horse waving my sword of righteousness whilst in the background couples lay with marriages breaking apart? Why don't you open your eyes and see that these individuals can be happy, can be loved back right instead of putting a veil over it all and just replying with the default "I'll make dua for you inshallah" of a response.

If you think you can forgive someone, and that'd automatically make things better then you're a fool. Simple, I have no time to be nice with this. You will regret it and by the time you do, you're stuck in a loveless marriage with kids and it'll all have been your fault because you could have left that chaos of an insult but you were too busy biting your lip with uncertainty.

Khalas.

[Mace]

I gave my opinion, she has decided to remain with her husband and I could care less whether or not she stays or goes but her issue wasn't about that decision; it was about whether or not she has to forgive him to have some content or happiness in her marriage.

Answer is no. She can never have that content and happiness with him because of what he did, and it shows as they constantly fight about it. She can't drop it, and it's understandable. It makes the pain even worst that she is married to him, they're a family together and he gave the ultimate betrayal of not only the sanctity of marriage but the love of which was spurning between two of Allah's creations and you criticise me because I'm straight up and honest?

...
If you think you can forgive someone, and that'd automatically make things better then you're a fool. Simple, I have no time to be nice with this. You will regret it and by the time you do, you're stuck in a loveless marriage with kids and it'll all have been your fault because you could have left that chaos of an insult but you were too busy biting your lip with uncertainty.

Khalas.

With all due respect, it seems you might be at a point in your life (I'm guessing) where everything is black and white to you. Long term relationships, whether they are parent/child or wife/husband are much more complicated and nuanced then you might think.

So it sounds like you would not be capable of forgiving this sin (at least at this point in your life), but for some reason you seem to project that to think that no one else can put this behind him/her either.

I give the OP a lot of credit for trying to make her marriage work. I think it is the right thing to do if it is possible. Of course it would not be easy, and so all the credit in the world to her for at least trying.

Good people are not perfect. And so good people do bad things sometimes. And so while we all aspire to marry good people, none of us can expect to marry perfect people.

The question is: is the husband in this case truly sorry, and does he truly have it in him to be a good loyal husband and father. If (and only if) that is true, then I think the right, sensible, and mature thing to do is move forward.

That's not to say the wife can just flick a switch and not feel sad or betrayed. After all, she is also human and her feelings are of course legitimate. But if she wants the marriage to work, for the sake of her family or for God, she has to be able to seek His help and the help of others to heal.

I think some people have this idea that adultery is the worst possible thing you can do in a marriage. I think there are a lot of things that people do within their marriage that are as bad or even worse. Certainly as destructive or more destructive.

[Mace]

A beautiful thought in another thread that I think is relevant to this discussion and to marriage (or any long term friendship) in general:

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169936

Maryam_hu, I hope that will have time to read this.

[Kal-El]

With all due respect, it seems you might be at a point in your life (I'm guessing) where everything is black and white to you. Long term relationships, whether they are parent/child or wife/husband are much more complicated and nuanced then you might think.

So it sounds like you would not be capable of forgiving this sin (at least at this point in your life), but for some reason you seem to project that to think that no one else can put this behind him/her either.

I give the OP a lot of credit for trying to make her marriage work. I think it is the right thing to do if it is possible. Of course it would not be easy, and so all the credit in the world to her for at least trying.

Good people are not perfect. And so good people do bad things sometimes. And so while we all aspire to marry good people, none of us can expect to marry perfect people.

The question is: is the husband in this case truly sorry, and does he truly have it in him to be a good loyal husband and father. If (and only if) that is true, then I think the right, sensible, and mature thing to do is move forward.

That's not to say the wife can just flick a switch and not feel sad or betrayed. After all, she is also human and her feelings are of course legitimate. But if she wants the marriage to work, for the sake of her family or for God, she has to be able to seek His help and the help of others to heal.

I think some people have this idea that adultery is the worst possible thing you can do in a marriage. I think there are a lot of things that people do within their marriage that are as bad or even worse. Certainly as destructive or more destructive.

Mace, I don't think my age has much to do with this. People as they get older, and like Miss-Islamic pointed out, get into a relationship where the partner does something so destructive - you can never truly understand or atleast understand fully to what might be going through your minds.

We as people all have a limit, a boundary to which we cannot live by, tolerate, forgive or accept when it comes to relationships. There are things for which I could forgive and no one else here could, and vice versa but in the context of a failing marriage the situation gets more complicated but lets take a subjective look at it.

She could love her husband yet realise she can never live with him or have/extend the family with him because of what he did, she can never look at him in the eye again. Or she could hate to love him, stick in the marriage and struggle whether or not to forgive yet is insistent that she'll never leave him. Or she could stay in the marriage and it be a love/hate relationship where he could never regain that trust again. And that is my point, that latter subject of trust is so crucial and so tentative that it is the fundamental base of any relationship. If she can be happy with him, yet her heart races at night when he was away not knowing what he is doing or who is doing what with, that is no way to live Mace. That is the limit for most people.

Adultery has many connotations aside from the initial shock and heartbreak - it leaves shadows which remain present day and night, shadows of fear, dormant resentment and distrust that you begin to hate yourself for not wanting to leave, you begin to hate him for why you feel so attached to what you have in that marriage.

Her focal question, which I'm basing my entire opinion on (in which I've constantly emphasised to be my own) is whether or not she needs to forgive him in order to move on with her marriage. What is forgiveness in this context? Is it sincerely forgiving him? Is it sincerely forgiving him with the hope that everything becomes alright again, like it used to be or realistically there is love and trust in the marriage again?

We can take steps to try and forgive, but even with we are capable of forgiving such a thing we (and I mean to project this universally because I believe we're all this way) cannot expect to regain what we had before all this happened. When your wife or husband betrays you emotionally, breaks you apart like that - you can never see them the same way again, and regardless if you choose to hold on to the title of being a "wife" - what is a marriage without love and trust?

Nothing. You can forgive him but don't expect anything to come from that. Some forgive and decide to move on, because this forgiveness is solely based on whether or not you will feel resentment towards them; not whether or not you can love them or be loved.

I don't need to be 21 or 700 years old to realise that.

[afsalim]

Dear brothers Kal-EL and Raashid,

When you have kids, you've got baggage to carry. You have to do a lot of compromises for the sake of your children. Sure, she has the right to divorce. But does she have the means to support her children? How would you fill the void of a father figure? If there were only two people involved, it would have been far too easy.

[Omar Mukhtar]

How do you know if he's not gonna do it again?

people don't usually get caught doing somethign unless they've done it before.

decision is up to you to forgive him or not.

[Kal-El]

Dear brothers Kal-EL and Raashid,

When you have kids, you've got baggage to carry. You have to do a lot of compromises for the sake of your children. Sure, she has the right to divorce. But does she have the means to support her children? How would you fill the void of a father figure? If there were only two people involved, it would have been far too easy.

You dont need a father to raise your children. I'd rather have a loving mother than a mother and father always fighting; how do you think that itself would affect the children to be raised in a marriage like that? Lets not be naive here and think two fighting parents are better for a child

[Pippin1376]

How do you know if he's not gonna do it again?

people don't usually get caught doing somethign unless they've done it before.

decision is up to you to forgive him or not.

Some people cheat once and never cheat again. Others will always cheat. If you forgive them you are hoping that they are in the group of the former.

[miss-islamic]

Mace, I don't think my age has much to do with this. People as they get older, and like Miss-Islamic pointed out, get into a relationship where the partner does something so destructive - you can never truly understand or atleast understand fully to what might be going through your minds.

We as people all have a limit, a boundary to which we cannot live by, tolerate, forgive or accept when it comes to relationships. There are things for which I could forgive and no one else here could, and vice versa but in the context of a failing marriage the situation gets more complicated but lets take a subjective look at it.

She could love her husband yet realise she can never live with him or have/extend the family with him because of what he did, she can never look at him in the eye again. Or she could hate to love him, stick in the marriage and struggle whether or not to forgive yet is insistent that she'll never leave him. Or she could stay in the marriage and it be a love/hate relationship where he could never regain that trust again. And that is my point, that latter subject of trust is so crucial and so tentative that it is the fundamental base of any relationship. If she can be happy with him, yet her heart races at night when he was away not knowing what he is doing or who is doing what with, that is no way to live Mace. That is the limit for most people.

Adultery has many connotations aside from the initial shock and heartbreak - it leaves shadows which remain present day and night, shadows of fear, dormant resentment and distrust that you begin to hate yourself for not wanting to leave, you begin to hate him for why you feel so attached to what you have in that marriage.

Her focal question, which I'm basing my entire opinion on (in which I've constantly emphasised to be my own) is whether or not she needs to forgive him in order to move on with her marriage. What is forgiveness in this context? Is it sincerely forgiving him? Is it sincerely forgiving him with the hope that everything becomes alright again, like it used to be or realistically there is love and trust in the marriage again?

We can take steps to try and forgive, but even with we are capable of forgiving such a thing we (and I mean to project this universally because I believe we're all this way) cannot expect to regain what we had before all this happened. When your wife or husband betrays you emotionally, breaks you apart like that - you can never see them the same way again, and regardless if you choose to hold on to the title of being a "wife" - what is a marriage without love and trust?

Nothing. You can forgive him but don't expect anything to come from that. Some forgive and decide to move on, because this forgiveness is solely based on whether or not you will feel resentment towards them; not whether or not you can love them or be loved.

I don't need to be 21 or 700 years old to realise that.

Our priority as humans and Muslims in such cases is to help in saving the marriage and family. And, yes, a lot of women do forgive their husband’s infidelity, even the big shots in our power-to-women era (I’m thinking Hilary Clinton here). Every case is different. It’s their choice (the one that has been harmed) and that’s how it should be and is in Islam. Most of them do so for pragmatic reasons that you will never understand because you aren’t a women, though. It’s way to easy for you to have these simple-minded romanticized views. And you can have them but this and other threads like it that are of a personal nature are not places for you to go on such opinionated sprees. Later.

[Kal-El]

Our priority as humans and Muslims in such cases is to help in saving the marriage and family. And, yes, a lot of women do forgive their husband’s infidelity, even the big shots in our power-to-women era (I’m thinking Hilary Clinton here). Every case is different. It’s their choice (the one that has been harmed) and that’s how it should be and is in Islam. Most of them do so for pragmatic reasons that you will never understand because you aren’t a women, though. It’s way to easy for you to have these simple-minded romanticized views. And you can have them but this and other threads like it that are of a personal nature are not places for you to go on such opinionated sprees. Later.

You don't know anything about me or my life so don't presume what I know and what I don't know about with your dismissive tone, I don't appreciate it. I have a strong opinion, you have yours and just because we disagree doesn't give you the right to get a soap box and dismiss me as a person.

Can you understand that?

[Fairy]

Excuse me, he would only be stoned to death if his adultery act was witnessed by 4 mature adults. He is to be forgiven if others forgive him, unless he cannot forgive himself, then he can seek his own punishment.

It takes a corrupted mind to think other people are corrupted.

Do you know you would be responsible on judgement day if you are the reason for the break-up of a family...?

He admitted to it!

[afsalim]

How do you know if he's not gonna do it again?

people don't usually get caught doing somethign unless they've done it before.

decision is up to you to forgive him or not.

You simply don't. It's called taking a leap of faith. No one knows whether their spouse would ever cheat on them, regardless of what they've done in the past. Your trust in the strength of that person's character is all that counts.

You dont need a father to raise your children. I'd rather have a loving mother than a mother and father always fighting; how do you think that itself would affect the children to be raised in a marriage like that? Lets not be naive here and think two fighting parents are better for a child

Trust me, you do. Get married and have children inshAllah, then you'll realize the importance of a father figure in a child's life. Divorcing someone is easy. But learning to live with your sins, continuous struggling with your desires to commit adultery again while you repent and seek mercy from Allah and forgiveness from you wife? Now that is Jihad!

[Kal-El]

Trust me, you do. Get married and have children inshAllah, then you'll realize the importance of a father figure in a child's life. Divorcing someone is easy. But learning to live with your sins, continuous struggling with your desires to commit adultery again while you repent and seek mercy from Allah and forgiveness from you wife? Now that is Jihad!

I disagree, your statement is naive. I was raised without a father or any 'male influence' in sight, so were my siblings and many other friends and they've turned out just fine. The notion that a father is compulsory to raise a child well is stretching it. Ofcourse it is better to have a relationship between both parents and/with the child but it is not necessary like you are implying.

[Umm_Hanzalah]

Yes, I think that in some cases divorce is better......for everyone involved.

[afsalim]

Our priority as humans and Muslims in such cases is to help in saving the marriage and family. And, yes, a lot of women do forgive their husband’s infidelity, even the big shots in our power-to-women era (I’m thinking Hilary Clinton here). Every case is different. It’s their choice (the one that has been harmed) and that’s how it should be and is in Islam. Most of them do so for pragmatic reasons that you will never understand because you aren’t a women, though. It’s way to easy for you to have these simple-minded romanticized views. And you can have them but this and other threads like it that are of a personal nature are not places for you to go on such opinionated sprees. Later.

Sis, a lot of women do forgive. Therefore, many husbands take their wives trust for granted. They're like, "If I do it again, she'll cry for a bit and come crawlin' back to me!" Each instance of adultery is unique. It is entirely up to the victim (in this case, the wife) to choose whether to forgive or not, while contemplating her future and her children's future. If a husband is an alcoholic, abusive and constantly sleeps around, then that should never be tolerated and divorce becomes a necessity.

[Kal-El]

No one deserves the type of "love" you can get from potential spouses who could do something like this, and still claim they "love" you. For that reason, despite the fact that some can forgive, I don't subscribe to that sentiment. Tolerance for this type of thing is incredibly dangerous, not only to that relationship but to what we as a society and culture can learn to accept and therefore tolerate in our lives. We already live in a culture where loyalty and fidelity doesn't come as standard but seen as more of a bonus/luxury and already people - mirroring the attitudes here - are preparing themselves to forgive such things.

You may have lost a trust in your marriage but dont hand over your dignity to them aswell. "Your not married so you don't understand", oh wait so you'd give that away, why? Because they love you? Who would want that kind of love, whilst you see your friends with husbands who love them and always come back home to them thinking of only their wives and you've settled for one who has other ideas. Like I said, in my opinion, I feel its a load of hogwash - its embarrasing and what are you going to say "who cares what they think..we lov....oh, right".

Not many things in life are black & white, but one thing that should be is that you and your wife/husband should love each other, truly, so such things never happen because if that true love does exist, it will never happen.

[afsalim]

I disagree, your statement is naive. I was raised without a father or any 'male influence' in sight, so were my siblings and many other friends and they've turned out just fine. The notion that a father is compulsory to raise a child well is stretching it. Ofcourse it is better to have a relationship between both parents and/with the child but it is not necessary like you are implying.

On the contrary, I have a similar case in my family. My aunt got divorced when she was pregnant. She has raised two wonderful children, both of whom are well established. One of them is an engineer and one of them is a chartered accountant. How was that possible? For starters, because of my parents' and my grandmother's unconditional devotion and care for my aunt and her children. My relatives on my mom's side is tightly knit.

However, children growing up in single families to turn up right are mere anomalies. Many children grow up in orphanage and still turn out right. What would you say about that? Therefore, I still stand by my previous statement.

[Umm_Hanzalah]

On the contrary, I have a similar case in my family. My aunt got divorced when she was pregnant. She has raised two wonderful children, both of whom are well established. One of them is an engineer and one of them is a chartered accountant. How was that possible? For starters, because of my parents' and my grandmother's unconditional devotion and care for my aunt and her children. My relatives on my mom's side is tightly knit.

However, children growing up in single families to turn up right are mere anomalies. Many children grow up in orphanage and still turn out right. What would you say about that? Therefore, I still stand by my previous statement.

That's why people can re-marry. Unfortunately divorced people these days are seen as being less than someone who has never been married. If someone commits adultery, I wouldn't blame their spouse for divorcing them, but it's not for me to decide for others.

[Kal-El]

On the contrary, I have a similar case in my family. My aunt got divorced when she was pregnant. She has raised two wonderful children, both of whom are well established. One of them is an engineer and one of them is a chartered accountant. How was that possible? For starters, because of my parents' and my grandmother's unconditional devotion and care for my aunt and her children. My relatives on my mom's side is tightly knit.

However, children growing up in single families to turn up right are mere anomalies. Many children grow up in orphanage and still turn out right. What would you say about that? Therefore, I still stand by my previous statement.

I wasn't comparing single families with the conventional family. I was comparing the value of having one loving mother raising you, with no distractions in sight, or having to grow up watching your parents always rowing (marital problems e.g. spurning from this adulterous act) - that itself has a negative impact on kids that never leaves them. The former is better for the child, to grow up in an environment without having to witness such things

[afsalim]

No one deserves the type of "love" you can get from potential spouses who could do something like this, and still claim they "love" you. For that reason, despite the fact that some can forgive, I don't subscribe to that sentiment. Tolerance for this type of thing is incredibly dangerous, not only to that relationship but to what we as a society and culture can learn to accept and therefore tolerate in our lives. We already live in a culture where loyalty and fidelity doesn't come as standard but seen as more of a bonus/luxury and already people - mirroring the attitudes here - are preparing themselves to forgive such things.

You may have lost a trust in your marriage but dont hand over your dignity to them aswell. "Your not married so you don't understand", oh wait so you'd give that away, why? Because they love you? Who would want that kind of love, whilst you see your friends with husbands who love them and always come back home to them thinking of only their wives and you've settled for one who has other ideas. Like I said, in my opinion, I feel its a load of hogwash - its embarrasing and what are you going to say "who cares what they think..we lov....oh, right".


Those who feel that fidelity is a luxury do not deserve to have anyone in their lives, period.

Let me give you a scenario. Suppose a lady from Pakistan was married to a man living in UK. This lady in question is not educated and does not speak English what so ever. She does not have a job as she does not posses any marketable skills. She has three children and her husband all of a sudden sleeps with someone. Would you recommend that the husband and the wife work things out (provided the man repents)? Or a divorce, forcing the lady and her children onto the streets?

As I have stated before, each instance of Adultery is unique and decisions should be taken by considering all the facts.

[Kal-El]

Those who feel that fidelity is a luxury do not deserve to have anyone in their lives, period.

Let me give you a scenario. Suppose a lady from Pakistan was married to a man living in UK. This lady in question is not educated and does not speak English what so ever. She does not have a job as she does not posses any marketable skills. She has three children and her husband all of a sudden sleeps with someone. Would you recommend that the husband and the wife work things out (provided the man repents)? Or a divorce, forcing the lady and her children onto the streets?

As I have stated before, each instance of Adultery is unique and decisions should be taken by considering all the facts.

You didn't even take into consideration my example was of a couple trying to save their marriage yet kept rowing in front of their children. If this woman was in that situation, and can't live with the man then she can live on benefits or/and try to look for a husband. My mother raised us all without a job in this country. I'm not silly enough to assume that can work for everyone, but I do not believe in living in a similarly hard marriage whilst trying to raise these three children

[Almunther]

Excuse me, he would only be stoned to death if his adultery act was witnessed by 4 mature adults. He is to be forgiven if others forgive him, unless he cannot forgive himself, then he can seek his own punishment.

It takes a corrupted mind to think other people are corrupted.

Do you know you would be responsible on judgement day if you are the reason for the break-up of a family...?


24:6 And those who accuse their wives, but they have no witnesses except for themselves, then the testimony of one of them is to be equivalent to that of four witnesses if he is swearing by God that he is being truthful.
24:7 And the fifth shall be God’s curse upon him if he is one of those lying.
24:8 And the punishment will be averted from her if she testifies four times by God that he is of the liars.
24:9 And the fifth shall be that God’s curse is upon her if he is speaking the truth.
24:10 All this is from God’s favor upon you and His mercy. And God is Forgiving, Wise.

The verses are self explanatory...

But the punishment according to the Quran is 100 lashes and there is no mention of stoning anywhere.

[Kal-El]

"Vile women are for vile men, and vile men for vile women. Good women are for good men, and good men for good women; such are innocent of that which people say: For them is pardon and a bountiful provision." (An-Nur: 26)

[PiElle2]

Does it make any difference if he was seen doing it or not when he himself confesses it?

He admitted to it!


Rashidd was saying he should be stoned, now that rule needs 4 witnesses. Yes, he admitted, but he admitted it to his wife, maybe he did in confidence, so it doesn't count as being witnessed by 4 mature adults. That's between him and his wife, he did not admit in front of all you guys, so you can keep your persecution!!!

And bro Kal-El... if you are not able to accept the weakness of some people, means your heart is not big enough to forgiveness... you are just not a forgiving person.

Do not jump on other people weakness to make you look like you are a strong person. Esp coming from a man who knows jolly well that women are more emotional and yet you hit on that weakness.

One is not as strong as one think if one cannot forgive.

[PiElle2]

24:6 And those who accuse their wives, but they have no witnesses except for themselves, then the testimony of one of them is to be equivalent to that of four witnesses if he is swearing by God that he is being truthful.
24:7 And the fifth shall be God’s curse upon him if he is one of those lying.
24:8 And the punishment will be averted from her if she testifies four times by God that he is of the liars.
24:9 And the fifth shall be that God’s curse is upon her if he is speaking the truth.
24:10 All this is from God’s favor upon you and His mercy. And God is Forgiving, Wise.

The verses are self explanatory...

But the punishment according to the Quran is 100 lashes and there is no mention of stoning anywhere.


You are trying to explain it by your 'self'... it's not what the Quran means...

Obviously you have not reached to the stoning part in the Quran.

Please.... go back to class...

[Kal-El]

Just because I can't forgive adulterers, it means I'm not a forgiving person? No offence but that's the most moronic nonsense I've ever heard in my entire life. I'd rather be alone than stuck in a loveless marriage, and I have no sympathy for anyone here who refuses the chance of leaving such a vile husband/wife. Honestly the Marriage section here must be the joke of the Internet. People adopting such a pathetic, almost depressingly submissive attitude towards adultery or cheating as if they're preparing themselves to experience the heartache of it one day, and people express sympathy for those who commit adultery!

What next?

[Maureen]

i'm hoping our kids will never find out. My husband has the desire to lead a life on deen again (as he once did) but his actions have taken both him and myself far from deen. I find myself moving very far from Allah and mostly full of anger, resentment and pain. But at the same time, i want to keep my family together and lead a "normal" life for my children. So my objective here i guess is to work out how to move on from what he did, leave it behind and that's where forgiveness comes in i guess...

I would aadvise to go for the forgiveness and see what happens. Hopefully all will be OK. It is normal for you to be full of anger, but this should fade as time moves on.

[Rosalie-Beauty]

Just because I can't forgive adulterers, it means I'm not a forgiving person? No offence but that's the most moronic nonsense I've ever heard in my entire life. I'd rather be alone than stick in a loveless marriage, and I have no sympathy for anyone here who refuses the chance of leaving such a vile husband/wife. Honestly the Marriage section here must be the joke of the Internet. We got all sorts here lol


yeah but she has kids with him, and is thinking of their sake. What would you do in that case? She not only has to think of herself but of her kids.

[Kal-El]

yeah but she has kids with him, and is thinking of their sake. What would you do in that case? She not only has to think of herself but of her kids.

That's based on the assumption that raising her children in a marriage with such resentment and distrust is healthier than raising them alone. Who knows how seeing him will affect her throughout this period of motherhood, and as a woman too? Could it make her emotionally unstable? Physically ill? Or could she cope with it perfectly, and actually they raise they're children as an ordinary couple would? And they say I'm being naive and arrogant...

[Kal-El]

How would anyone in her situation feel knowing there are probably spouses, who love each other dearly and would never do such a thing, are reading this now knowing that you could have that? Here in Ummah there are a few married couples, probably shaking their head at this sad state of affairs. You have the right to be loved like that.

And people are trying to shadow me here...:rolleyes:

[Rosalie-Beauty]

That's based on the assumption that raising her children in a marriage with such resentment and distrust is healthier than raising them alone. Who knows how seeing him will affect her throughout this period of motherhood, and as a woman too? Could it make her emotionally unstable? Physically ill? Or could she cope with it perfectly, and actually they raise they're children as an ordinary couple would? And they say I'm being naive and arrogant...


yes but in this case she mentioned that he regrests his sin. Thus, in repentance he will probably act nicer toward her and make an extra effort toward his marriage. The chances of the children being raised normally against the chances of them being raised normally if there was a divorce is unequal. It will more than likley be beneficial to stay in the marriage

Burt this is only one case. I agree with the fact that if the husband felt no regret, than she should leave him with her kids.

[Kal-El]

yes but in this case she mentioned that he regrests his sin. Thus, in repentance he will probably act nicer toward her and make an extra effort toward his marriage. The chances of the children being raised normally against the chances of them being raised normally if there was a divorce is unequal. It will more than likley be beneficial to stay in the marriage

Burt this is only one case. I agree with the fact that if the husband felt no regret, than she should leave him with her kids.



Her focal question, which I'm basing my entire opinion on (in which I've constantly emphasised to be my own) is whether or not she needs to forgive him in order to move on with her marriage. What is forgiveness in this context? Is it sincerely forgiving him? Is it sincerely forgiving him with the hope that everything becomes alright again, like it used to be or realistically there is love and trust in the marriage again?

We can take steps to try and forgive, but even with we are capable of forgiving such a thing we (and I mean to project this universally because I believe we're all this way) cannot expect to regain what we had before all this happened. When your wife or husband betrays you emotionally, breaks you apart like that - you can never see them the same way again, and regardless if you choose to hold on to the title of being a "wife" - what is a marriage without love and trust?

Nothing. You can forgive him but don't expect anything to come from that. Some forgive and decide to move on, because this forgiveness is solely based on whether or not you will feel resentment towards them; not whether or not you can love them or be loved.



..

[Rosalie-Beauty]

So then do you never forgive anyone for anything?

Yes, Zina is a very big and crushing sin and I dont even know if I would be able to forgive someone, but at least I would try. Since Allah forgives all sins (except shirk), then what could be wrong in trying? But, since I am somewhat selfish, and would want to feel loved to some extent, I would leave them if in my heart I could not find true peace. Because then I would know it was not meant to be.

[afsalim]

Brother Kal-EL,

You have your opinion brother. We have ours. No need to call each other morons or naive because of the difference in opinion. I have seen first hand what adultery does to families. Four years ago a close friend of mine got married and it was an arranged marriage. A year after the marriage, my friend left for USA to pursue higher education and a year after that he returned home. He found out his wife is three months pregnant! It appears that the lady was having an extramarital affair with one of her colleagues. My friend came to me asking for advice. My advice to him was getting a good lawyer and divorce her. Simply put, she didn't deserve such a descent man like him. He took my advice and got divorced. He's happy now with his life.

As I have said, each incident of adultery is unique. Some maybe forgiven for the sake of the family, some may not be.

[Raashid]

Rashidd was saying he should be stoned, now that rule needs 4 witnesses. Yes, he admitted, but he admitted it to his wife, maybe he did in confidence, so it doesn't count as being witnessed by 4 mature adults. That's between him and his wife, he did not admit in front of all you guys, so you can keep your persecution!!!

And bro Kal-El... if you are not able to accept the weakness of some people, means your heart is not big enough to forgiveness... you are just not a forgiving person.

Do not jump on other people weakness to make you look like you are a strong person. Esp coming from a man who knows jolly well that women are more emotional and yet you hit on that weakness.

One is not as strong as one think if one cannot forgive.

You missed my point. I'm not saying he should be stoned, I'm saying that's the Islamic punishment in an Islamic state wwhen it's been witnessed, which would suggest to me Islamisn't very forgiving of adultery, so why should individuals be?
In fact, stoning is also to make an example of that persons heinous crime to deter other like-minded people. Since stoning can't be done in this situation, she should not only divorce but also expose this man so he can never get married to a decent woman again. That's what he deserves. Like Bro Kal-El quoted from the Quran "vile men for vile women, pious men for pious women" is the order we should all strive to get in society.

Maryam-Hu, can you confirm whether you would be financially burdened by being divorced? What country do you live in? It could be that social security and palimony payments could be available for your needs.

[Kal-El]

So then do you never forgive anyone for anything?

Yes, Zina is a very big and crushing sin and I dont even know if I would be able to forgive someone, but at least I would try. Since Allah forgives all sins (except shirk), then what could be wrong in trying? But, since I am somewhat selfish, and would want to feel loved to some extent, I would leave them if in my heart I could not find true peace. Because then I would know it was not meant to be.

Sister it's not about whether or not I could forgive, forgiveness in regards to a sin like this only relates to whether or not your hatred and anger for your spouse can die down eventually and even if it does, it will not recreate that love and trust you had before. It is incredibly difficult to try and formulate a way, or to try, to feel something for someone when you don't. People here are speaking of forgiveness as if, if you forgive them you will be happy in your marriage once again. It doesn't work like that. Forgiveness is only something for yourself; to lose that resentment for them, it's healthy to forgive them but that doesn't mean you'll want to be with them.

Brother Kal-EL,

You have your opinion brother. We have ours. No need to call each other morons or naive because of the difference in opinion. I have seen first hand what adultery does to families. Four years ago a close friend of mine got married and it was an arranged marriage. A year after the marriage, my friend left for USA to pursue higher education and a year after that he returned home. He found out his wife is three months pregnant! It appears that the lady was having an extramarital affair with one of her colleagues. My friend came to me asking for advice. My advice to him was getting a good lawyer and divorce her. Simply put, she didn't deserve such a descent man like him. He took my advice and got divorced. He's happy now with his life.

As I have said, each incident of adultery is unique. Some maybe forgiven for the sake of the family, some may not be.

I didn't call anyone a moron, I said her comment was moronic because she implied anyone who can't forgive an adulterer isn't a forgiving person in general. I've sent you a PM, which is private. I'm not egoistical but I consider myself a forgiven person in nature, and sometimes I have forgiven things for which I should not have but the idea of forgiving adultery is something should not be measured against a person's morality or sense of goodness.

[afsalim]

Forgiveness does have its bounds.

[miss-islamic]

You don't know anything about me or my life so don't presume what I know and what I don't know about with your dismissive tone, I don't appreciate it. I have a strong opinion, you have yours and just because we disagree doesn't give you the right to get a soap box and dismiss me as a person.

Can you understand that?


No, not when you put down women who forgive their husbands infidelity in a thread about a sister asking how deal with her choice to forgive her husband’s infidelity. :rolleyes: There is a difference between a thread asking for opinion/discussion and one asking for advice on a personal issue. Learn that difference. And think beyond your strong opinions on the issue for a sec when replying to the latter. That’s what I’m trying to say and I’m sorry if I can’t say it in a nicer way.
Trust me, you do. Get married and have children inshAllah, then you'll realize the importance of a father figure in a child's life. Divorcing someone is easy. But learning to live with your sins, continuous struggling with your desires to commit adultery again while you repent and seek mercy from Allah and forgiveness from you wife? Now that is Jihad!

Actually even then you guys can’t cuz divorced men don’t have the problems that single mothers do(where is kal-el going to be when she is going to be struggling with feeding the kids and re-marrying?). It’s always the women who loses out, even when it is the guy whose the loser. Sis, a lot of women do forgive. Therefore, many husbands take their wives trust for granted. They're like, "If I do it again, she'll cry for a bit and come crawlin' back to me!" Each instance of adultery is unique. It is entirely up to the victim (in this case, the wife) to choose whether to forgive or not, while contemplating her future and her children's future. If a husband is an alcoholic, abusive and constantly sleeps around, then that should never be tolerated and divorce becomes a necessity.

I know and I agree.:)

[Kal-El]

No, not when you put down women who forgive their husbands infidelity in a thread about a sister asking how deal with her choice to forgive her husband’s infidelity. :rolleyes: There is a difference between a thread asking for opinion/discussion and one asking for advice on a personal issue. Learn that difference. And think beyond your strong opinions on the issue for a sec when replying to the latter. That’s what I’m trying to say and I’m sorry if I can’t say it in a nicer way.


You don't seem to understand the issue here. It is not singular aspect of forgiveness, or not forgiving, it is a multitude of whether or not forgiveness is needed to lead to a happy marriage, or if regardless of forgiveness your marriage will not rebound to what it was. I was 'putting down' the initial notion. Maryam's entire question was not simply whether or not she should forgive, but whether or not she should forgive him in order to get to a happier marriage.

I argued that regardless of forgiveness, you cannot expect to find what you had before that and any opposing argument is naive and silly. I could care less whether or not she forgives him or not, personally I don't subscribe to that type of tolerance although I understand why some may want to forgive. These examples of children in the marriage, raising them with the husband or without maybe relevant to her decision in relation divorce or not, but is completely irrelevant to her quest of finding happiness.

Do you understand what I am saying? This isn't about me or my personal issues - this is about trying to embed some hard truths over a wind of illusions and sentiment that seem to be sweeping the thread.

[Almunther]

You are trying to explain it by your 'self'... it's not what the Quran means...

Obviously you have not reached to the stoning part in the Quran.

Please.... go back to class...

Explain by "myself"? Explain what, I said the above verses are self explanatory (I didn't even bother explaining it).

And I can assure you there is no stoning of adultery in the Quran. Would you like to discuss this issue further?

[PiElle2]

Explain by "myself"? Explain what, I said the above verses are self explanatory (I didn't even bother explaining it).

And I can assure you there is no stoning of adultery in the Quran. Would you like to discuss this issue further?


the issue is currently being discussed in CR - Adultery thread, go there if you want...

[maryam_hu]

i'm really sorry to hear about what you have been through sis but i'm so glad you have worked things out and you're at peace with yourself and can focus on your deen and your children. This is where i would like to be inshAllah.

You embarass me by saying i am strong - i am not very strong at all and even though it's been a while since this happened its coming up to a point where i feel i'm gonna have a breakdown. I have to switch off mentally as it were, otherwise i could end up doing a lot of harm to myself.

I do have the ability to support myself if i was to leave him, but there are so many reasons why i shouldn't leave, and only one reason why i should leave.

JazakAllahu khairan for your advice. It lifts a big burden knowing that you know how i feel and that all of this is normal...i sometimes feel i'm a very bad wife, because of my resentment and anger towards him which makes me behave negatively towards him. He does understand this and is patient with me when i get like this but i worry i might push him and always fear he will cheat again. I feel i should have snapped out of this by now, as its been almost a year but i guess you are right and things like this need more time.



Insha'Allah you are well Sister. Before I TRY to answer you, can I just say again what a strong woman I think you are. Really! I am truly inspired by women who have had the worst things done to them and yet still are able to hold their head up. Surely Allah subhana wa ta'ala will bless you for your efforts.

Now let's see. Do I know what forgiveness actually is? Or if time does in fact allow it to take place? mmm...I am not sure for everyone. Like I said, my Sister struggles with this daily, but I do see her better now than two months ago..and I am sure in two more months, I will see her even better.

Let me tell you something if I may. I was married for 13 1.2 years to my first husband. He was all I knew. We had three children together. Life was going along as it should then in April of 04 I noticed a drastic change in his behaviour. Staying at work till late at night, joined a gym, started wearing button up shirts(he was always a t-shirt man)..though I suspected something, I didnt have proof and thought I was just making something out of nothing.

I came home for vacation that summer(we lived out of the US at the time) I tried to go back home after my visit(to him) and my tickets were canceled. I called him very concerned thinking that the travel agency made a mistake. I called him several times in fact. The first few times he lied to me and said he didn't know what was going on and he would contact them to resolve the problem. Then after a week past my return date..I called him one night to ask if he figured it out and when would he be emailing me our reservations. He came right out and said this

Him - "I canceled the tickets"
Me- (confused) "why would you do that?"
Him - "because I don't love you anymore...I have nothing in life because of you...I never wanted three kids and I was forced to take care of the kids YOU wanted..not me...and also, I am in love with her"

SO needless to say, I was devestated. And just like that..he ended it. I called and called...called his parents...I got nothing. He basically cut all contact with me and the kids.
He came about 4 months later and filed for divorce without the kids and I even knowing he was in town. The kids were extremely upset. They didn't know why they couldn't go home..they didn't know why they couldn't get their things? Where was their father and why wasn't he calling..
And as you can imagine..it just got worse..

SO the point to all this?
I hated him. I hated him so much when he did that to me and the kids. I had no job experience because I Was a stay at home mom(what HE wanted me to be) I had no college education because I married him as soon as I turned 18 and got pregnant right away and just life always prevented me from returning..so I was stuck in my parents home with three children and trying to figure out how I will provide for them. SO yeah...hate is probably putting it lightly...
BUT...while everyone was hating him along with me..something happened to me. I distracted myself with trying to do what was best for my children. He eventually started to call and I would only say a quick hi and that was it. Why I did not yell at him is still a mystery. And I tell you Dear Sister, eventually over time...I just let it go.

I just let it go and came to terms with it. I don't hate anymore. Matter of fact, I still love him because he is the Father of my children. I don't love him like that of course..but I have love for him. And now, I harbor no ill feelings towards him. Even when I was hating him to most...the one thing I never did was talk bad about him to or in front of my kids. I think this helped me somewhat. You see...I stopped focusing on what he did..and instead, I focused on his good qualities and tried to always tell them to the children. I didn't want them to hate him or think bad of him. In doing this...in PRAYING about this...Allah subhana wa ta'ala just lifted any of those bad feelings from me.

Today, I can honestly say...after all this time..I forgive him. I do not think about what he has done to us...instead, I let it go and think about how much he tries now to make up for what he has done to his children. And it's not that I just ignore what he has done..I can't! He is about to marry the woman he left us for..BUT..I don't know, just there is honestly NO BAD FEELINGS for him in my heart. So I assume that this is what forgiveness is??!!

I truly believe that if you try to accept his apology and try to not GROUP him with ALL THE OTHER MEN WHO HAVE DONE THIS...and pray about it...you will heal. Your heart will heal and you will someday wake up and know that even though you remember this time as if it was yesterday, you no longer hurt like you did yesterday. You will be able to look at him and smile and see the good in him and that's when you will know you have in fact forgiven him.

I must say this though...if he doesn't want counceling...then you will need to try really hard to make him understand and asknowledge your feelings and to HAVE PATIENCE WITH YOU regarding them. HE BROKE THIS..NOT YOU..so he will need to accept things this way and try to SHOW you through his ACTIONS that he is truly regretful of what he has done.

I will make Du'a for you and pray that everything will be ok and that you will someday come to find that peace in your haert and mind that comes with time, prayer, and forgiveness. Insha'Allah

MaSalaama

[maryam_hu]

Sister you cannot live with a spouse member under the premise that you wont ever be really happy with him. You need to forgive someone to move on, you cannot live with the memory in acceptance and share a bed with him at the same time.

Yet for his crime, it is unforgivable. Having sex with someone is not a mistake, it is a choice made to go through that with another person. Bumping into someone in the street, forgetting where your wallet is, those are mistakes because they happen unintentionally and instantly. We can all agree on the process of sleeping with someone takes a bit longer than that, he made the choice to continue to lust after this woman, made the choice to make the intention of sleeping with her, made the choice of going up to her to flirt and then calculated where and when to do it, and did the deed there and then. And after he was satisfied and the excitement died, he went back home to you.

That is unforgivable in my opinion, people get killed for this kind of stuff in places around the world, not just based on religion, but dignity. There are some who subscribe to the culture of killing both of them. In my opinion he's already left you a long time ago to be able to do this.

i agree totally and don't for one minute recognise zina as a mistake... he had many opportunities to get out of that situation before the greater zina took place. But at the same time, i don't feel i have the novelty of making the decision to leave. If there were no children involved then i would have left without thinking twice -this sin is something that physically, mentally and emotionally tears you up inside. You actually feel the pain of a broken heart and it physically hurts. But the main thing here is that my children are young and they love their father to bits. They can't stay without him even for a single day and as a mother i really couldn't seperate them from their father...they need him much more than i need relief from this situation.

[maryam_hu]

I think the most unforgivable thing in this world is how some women can forgive such unfaithful men who don't care enough about them and they're marriages to drool over the scent of other women, whilst there are honourable and sincere men who truly wouldn't do such a thing yet are walking on deserts and streets without a hope of finding someone to share their life with. And here you are thinking you may be happy one day, or maybe not, and refuse yourself the freedom and god given right to end your suffering.

If you want to stay with such a man, very well, you're a strong woman to accept that but you won't win any moral support or admiration for forgiving a Muslim adulterer and staying in such an explosive marriage.


i understand your sentiments - i am living them, but the way i see it my brother, is that i would not be able to forgive myself and live with the effects that a divorce will have on my children. Staying in the marriage, i know i can live with. Primarily it effects only me which is why i am desperately seeking advice on how to overcome this situation for my own sanity and to keep my family together. I hope that makes sense.

[maryam_hu]

How do you know if he's not gonna do it again?

people don't usually get caught doing somethign unless they've done it before.

decision is up to you to forgive him or not.

Some people cheat once and never cheat again. Others will always cheat. If you forgive them you are hoping that they are in the group of the former.

as far as i know, he did it only once. He made an oath over the Qur'an and told me he did the greater zina only once. I belive he realises what this could do to our children if he was to do somrthing like this again and if i ever speak about seperation/divorce, he desperately tries to pull things together. He wants us to stay as a family. So i know that he really regrets what he did and hope he won't do it again - but then again, most men lie about such things so there is no knowing but i have to try at least. I hope i don't offend anyone here, but i believe that in this society, if a man is given the opportunity, he will cheat. all the men i have ever known in my life have lied, cheated, betrayed and hurt their women and families. there are only a handful of men who have real honour and strong will to be loyal to their families and this isnt something you can take for granted in a man these days.

[maryam_hu]

He admitted to it!

he admitted it to me after i found out myself.

[maryam_hu]

"Vile women are for vile men, and vile men for vile women. Good women are for good men, and good men for good women; such are innocent of that which people say: For them is pardon and a bountiful provision." (An-Nur: 26)

I have often thought about this verse...what exactly does it mean? I am a pure women who has never been with anyone except my husband. I have tried my utmost to stay clean from a very young age, even though my family were not supportive of my interest in deen and my decisions to cover myself...my husband has betrayed me and committed a "vile" act, so according to that verse, does that make me vile?

[miss-islamic]

Sister, most of us here are youth and don’t have experience of marriage, leave alone your situation. I’m sure there are articles/book/groups out that help women in your situation, specifically those who took the forgiveness route. You can try checking them out. It might also help having someone you can talk to about it offline (if you don’t already)?You don't seem to understand the issue here. It is not singular aspect of forgiveness, or not forgiving, it is a multitude of whether or not forgiveness is needed to lead to a happy marriage, or if regardless of forgiveness your marriage will not rebound to what it was. I was 'putting down' the initial notion. Maryam's entire question was not simply whether or not she should forgive, but whether or not she should forgive him in order to get to a happier marriage.

I argued that regardless of forgiveness, you cannot expect to find what you had before that and any opposing argument is naive and silly. I could care less whether or not she forgives him or not, personally I don't subscribe to that type of tolerance although I understand why some may want to forgive. These examples of children in the marriage, raising them with the husband or without maybe relevant to her decision in relation divorce or not, but is completely irrelevant to her quest of finding happiness.

Do you understand what I am saying? This isn't about me or my personal issues - this is about trying to embed some hard truths over a wind of illusions and sentiment that seem to be sweeping the thread.

She might not get exactly what she had before but it is perfectly possible for her/people to find happiness in their life and marriage again despite their spouse’s infidelity. Who are you to say otherwise? Have you talk to the hundreds people who have done so? And btw, dontchathink your views in this thread is far cry from this story (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=163738&page=4 – post 65) you posted in another thread? :D

[miss-islamic]

I have often thought about this verse...what exactly does it mean? I am a pure women who has never been with anyone except my husband. I have tried my utmost to stay clean from a very young age, even though my family were not supportive of my interest in deen and my decisions to cover myself...my husband has betrayed me and committed a "vile" act, so according to that verse, does that make me vile?

NO! We can’t make our own conclusion, esp. not relating to our own personal life, about the ayah. That ayah is misused a lot.

[Kal-El]

i agree totally and don't for one minute recognise zina as a mistake... he had many opportunities to get out of that situation before the greater zina took place. But at the same time, i don't feel i have the novelty of making the decision to leave. If there were no children involved then i would have left without thinking twice -this sin is something that physically, mentally and emotionally tears you up inside. You actually feel the pain of a broken heart and it physically hurts. But the main thing here is that my children are young and they love their father to bits. They can't stay without him even for a single day and as a mother i really couldn't seperate them from their father...they need him much more than i need relief from this situation.

i understand your sentiments - i am living them, but the way i see it my brother, is that i would not be able to forgive myself and live with the effects that a divorce will have on my children. Staying in the marriage, i know i can live with. Primarily it effects only me which is why i am desperately seeking advice on how to overcome this situation for my own sanity and to keep my family together. I hope that makes sense.

I understand.

I have often thought about this verse...what exactly does it mean? I am a pure women who has never been with anyone except my husband. I have tried my utmost to stay clean from a very young age, even though my family were not supportive of my interest in deen and my decisions to cover myself...my husband has betrayed me and committed a "vile" act, so according to that verse, does that make me vile?

No, it just means you're extremely unlucky. Those who commit adultery or are not virgins should marry each other, for often if they mix with those who are chaste it can cause issues of suspicion and difficult questions about their past. For example, if your husband moved on and remarried to a woman who was chaste, and she found out what he had done - then that would in essence put his marriage to her on the brink, just like it is between you two now. Those who are chaste should marry each other, and those who are not should go together.

Sister, most of us here are youth and don’t have experience of marriage, leave alone your situation. I’m sure there are articles/book/groups out that help women in your situation, specifically those who took the forgiveness route. You can try checking them out. It might also help having someone you can talk to about it offline (if you don’t already)?

She might not get exactly what she had before but it is perfectly possible for her/people to find happiness in their life and marriage again despite their spouse’s infidelity. Who are you to say otherwise? Have you talk to the hundreds people who have done so? And btw, dontchathink your views in this thread is far cry from this story (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=163738&page=4 – post 65) you posted in another thread? :D

Like I said, you don't know anything about my life and I certainly would not just get up on a soap box and preach here. Although I can't speak in relation to how children play a factor in the decision, I do know that personally and speaking from others the vast vast vast vast vast majority of people's hearts and trust could no redevelop with a partner who had betrayed them on this scale. She may be able to forgive him and live on in her marriage, but to say they'll be in love like they once were before this act of sin from the husband is a joke.

And that post was general advice on marital problems; nothing to do with adultery or betrayal. You can't apply one sentiment to every possible scenario.

[Kal-El]

this isnt something you can take for granted in a man these days.

Sister this is an extremely dangerous mentality to have. I was having this discussion a few days ago early with another sister about this; about the issue of fidelity in today's society and how a man's fidelity even in the Muslim is now cherished as if it's something special. It should be standard, end of. There is ample amount of Muslim men who are and are able to be honourable in their marriages.

I think it's the most simplest thing in life to stay loyal to your wife and any one, man or woman, who thinks twice about that needs to evaluate themselves because they're on the path to themselves considering this sin something that should be forgiven. If we as a culture begin to prepare ourselves for hurt in the way of acceptance of such things to happen to us, then it will happen to us.

[Mace]

No, it just means you're extremely unlucky. Those who commit adultery or are not virgins should marry each other, for often if they mix with those who are chaste it can cause issues of suspicion and difficult questions about their past. For example, if your husband moved on and remarried to a woman who was chaste, and she found out what he had done - then that would in essence put his marriage to her on the brink, just like it is between you two now. Those who are chaste should marry each other, and those who are not should go together.


I think you might be overstating these parts, you might want to make the point more specific. You're talking presumably about adultery, not virginity. What about a virgin woman marrying a widower? Or a virgin woman marrying someone who is already married? Or a man marrying a widow? All of those are perfectly legitimate according to your faith.


Like I said, you don't know anything about my life and I certainly would not just get up on a soap box and preach here. Although I can't speak in relation to how children play a factor in the decision, I do know that personally and speaking from others the vast vast vast vast vast majority of people's hearts and trust could no redevelop with a partner who had betrayed them on this scale. She may be able to forgive him and live on in her marriage, but to say they'll be in love like they once were before this act of sin from the husband is a joke.

And that post was general advice on marital problems; nothing to do with adultery or betrayal. You can't apply one sentiment to every possible scenario.


With all due respect, I still think that the strength of your opinion on these matters is not well matched to the depth of your experience here. I don't mean to insult you, and you know I like you, but you're talking about giving other people advice here and so you have to really consider whether it is wise to give such strong advice on something you have never even experienced.

For example the statement in bold above is just false. If you believe that, then again with all due respect, that means you don't understand love. People who really love each other can repent and can forgive.

[PiElle2]

i understand your sentiments - i am living them, but the way i see it my brother, is that i would not be able to forgive myself and live with the effects that a divorce will have on my children. Staying in the marriage, i know i can live with. Primarily it effects only me which is why i am desperately seeking advice on how to overcome this situation for my own sanity and to keep my family together. I hope that makes sense.


Sis... i am very proud of you to have such noble thoughts on your marriage and wanting so much to keep your family together!!! you are a gem to your family... keep up the good work! I am also very happy to hear that your husband is actually also making the effort, sis, not many men bother to make the effort to keep family together, even tho they may never have commited adultery in their life... This is the only way, tho painful, to show your kids what marriage and family is about too, stay together and support one another. Sis, I support you all the way!

May Allah strengthen the mercy and love between you and your husband... And may Allah open your heart to forgiveness and receive lots of joy and happiness in your family... :inlove: :hidban::inlove:

[maryam_hu]

Sister this is an extremely dangerous mentality to have. I was having this discussion a few days ago early with another sister about this; about the issue of fidelity in today's society and how a man's fidelity even in the Muslim is now cherished as if it's something special. It should be standard, end of. There is ample amount of Muslim men who are and are able to be honourable in their marriages.

I think it's the most simplest thing in life to stay loyal to your wife and any one, man or woman, who thinks twice about that needs to evaluate themselves because they're on the path to themselves considering this sin something that should be forgiven. If we as a culture begin to prepare ourselves for hurt in the way of acceptance of such things to happen to us, then it will happen to us.


You are right it should be standard and taken for granted but i believe in this day and age and in the society we live in, men are under a lot of pressure (not sure if thats the right word?) and there are simply too many temptations and shameless women who make themseleves easily available. In my experience, i think it is fair to say that while most women could not even think about commiting zina after marriage, most men do think about it - it's a weakness in men and something that is causing me to loose respect for men in general. In all honesty could never trust a man again.

[maryam_hu]

Sis... i am very proud of you to have such noble thoughts on your marriage and wanting so much to keep your family together!!! you are a gem to your family... keep up the good work! I am also very happy to hear that your husband is actually also making the effort, sis, not many men bother to make the effort to keep family together, even tho they may never have commited adultery in their life... This is the only way, tho painful, to show your kids what marriage and family is about too, stay together and support one another. Sis, I support you all the way!

May Allah strengthen the mercy and love between you and your husband... And may Allah open your heart to forgiveness and receive lots of joy and happiness in your family... :inlove: :hidban::inlove:

ameen. jzk for your words sis. I was talking to my friend today who really pushed me to constantly think of the positive things in my husband. Most people i talk to say that i have to forgive, if not at least to forget and bury this whole episode or all the effort i have put into keeping my family together will go to waste. Keep me in your duas please.

[yasmin20]

Assalam Alaikum sister,

After reading all the post in your thread I just wanted to have a little in put in this
First of all I want to tell you that you've been very brave and extremely strong to decide you will stay with your husband. It