Does any Muslim think that Kuffar actually care about the Death of a Muslim

[Qiyas]

:salams:

This is a Muslim only poll. Do any of you feel that Kuffar (i.e. one who covers the truth, and not your ordinary joe bloggs non-Muslim) really care about the death or murder of a Muslim (and I mean a fully practicing Muslim, not a Britney Spears wannabe) ?

[Omar Mukhtar]

Some do, rachel corey she was non muslim who died trying save a Muslim.

[Qiyas]

Some do, rachel corey she was non muslim who died trying save a Muslim.

Ok, just to repeat, in this poll, I'm talking about Kuffar according to the exact definition, i.e. one who covers (in this case, the truth). When I say Kuffar, I don't mean those non-Muslims who don't know the truth...

[your sister]

:salams:

This is a Muslim only poll. Do any of you feel that Kuffar (i.e. one who covers the truth, and not your ordinary joe bloggs non-Muslim) really care about the death or murder of a Muslim (and I mean a fully practicing Muslim, not a Britney Spears wannabe) ?

Yeah,they are crying a lot and bringing flowers on Muslim's graves!
Come on, we all know what's the correct answer

[Astraeus]

Does any Muslim think that Kuffar actually care about the Death of a Muslim
:salams

No. I honestly don't think so.

[muhammad atta]

if they cared then instead of hundreds of thousands going to football matches every week (and millions more watching on TV) they would come out and protest the massacre of muslims around the world. but many are too busy watching eastenders, home and away, pop idol etc


and too busy drinking in the pub, too busy dancing at their local night club - all this whilst their govt kills and supports this genocide.

i can go on, but im sure you get the gist.

[.: Anna :.]

Your question is a bit odd. It depends on the individual. Then when someone mentions an example of those who do/did care about Muslims, despite bein a non Muslim, you say "I don't mean that kind of non-Muslim."
So you are just making the poll for the sake of people answering "no they don't care."
What is the point of that and why make a poll when you clearly only want to accept one answer? :scratch:

[Skavau]

Ok, just to repeat, in this poll, I'm talking about Kuffar according to the exact definition, i.e. one who covers (in this case, the truth). When I say Kuffar, I don't mean those non-Muslims who don't know the truth...
What constitutes 'covering the truth'? Are you referring to Non-Muslims who believe Islam is true and then decide to cover this up? I doubt that you will have a very big list of 'Kuffar' on that list.

[Qiyas]

Your question is a bit odd. It depends on the individual. Then when someone mentions an example of those who do/did care about Muslims, despite bein a non Muslim, you say "I don't mean that kind of non-Muslim."
So you are just making the poll for the sake of people answering "no they don't care."
What is the point of that and why make a poll when you clearly only want to accept one answer? :scratch:

How much clearer did you want me to make the point:

Kuffar is one who covers the truth
non-Muslim is one who doesn't know the truth. This is from a lecture by Yusuf Estes

If you think that I just want to hear people dissing kuffar, then I'd have made it a public poll (i.e. people could see who voted for what).

You can close the poll, if it offends you...

[Abu Mus'ab]

Ok, just to repeat, in this poll, I'm talking about Kuffar according to the exact definition, i.e. one who covers (in this case, the truth). When I say Kuffar, I don't mean those non-Muslims who don't know the truth...
That's just your definition of kuffaar, that's not the shari definition.

[Qiyas]

That's just your definition of kuffaar, that's not the shari definition.

I got that definition from Yusuf Estes, not from Qiyas's all in one encyclopedia. Why don't you tell us what Kaafir means, and it's root word etc, just to clarify for us all...

[Omar Mukhtar]

if they cared then instead of hundreds of thousands going to football matches every week (and millions more watching on TV) they would come out and protest the massacre of muslims around the world. but many are too busy watching eastenders, home and away, pop idol etc


and too busy drinking in the pub, too busy dancing at their local night club - all this whilst their govt kills and supports this genocide.

Muslims doing exactly the same.

[Abu Mus'ab]

Ok, just to repeat, in this poll, I'm talking about Kuffar according to the exact definition, i.e. one who covers (in this case, the truth). When I say Kuffar, I don't mean those non-Muslims who don't know the truth...
That's just your definition of kuffaar, that's not the shari definition.

[Qiyas]

That's just your definition of kuffaar, that's not the shari definition.

Like I said
I got that definition from Yusuf Estes, not from Qiyas's all in one encyclopedia. Why don't you tell us what Kaafir means, and it's root word etc, just to clarify for us all...

[Abu Mus'ab]

:salams:

This is a Muslim only poll. Do any of you feel that Kuffar (i.e. one who covers the truth, and not your ordinary joe bloggs non-Muslim) really care about the death or murder of a Muslim (and I mean a fully practicing Muslim, not a Britney Spears wannabe) ?
:wswrwb:

Allahu a3lam.

But if i have to comment, then i'd say that it depends, certain kuffaar have muslim friends, and when they die they feel sad, they feel sad at the loss of their friend, what religion he followed doesn't really matter to him, so you decide whether he cares or not.

But for when ordinary muslims die, that i don't know, only Allah knows that.

Then you get the "islamaphobes", they don't care when muslims die, there's no argument about that.

[Qiyas]

:wswrwb:

Allahu a3lam.

But if i have to comment, then i'd say that it depends, certain kuffaar have muslim friends, and when they die they feel sad, they feel sad at the loss of their friend, what religion he followed doesn't really matter to him, so you decide whether he cares or not.

But for when ordinary muslims die, that i don't know, only Allah knows that.

Then you get the "islamaphobes", they don't care when muslims die, there's no argument about that.

Lol Aakhi, you still haven't told me the 'correct' definition (in your eyes) of what the word kaafir means etc...

[abood]

:salams:

This is a Muslim only poll. Do any of you feel that Kuffar (i.e. one who covers the truth, and not your ordinary joe bloggs non-Muslim) really care about the death or murder of a Muslim (and I mean a fully practicing Muslim, not a Britney Spears wannabe) ?

assalam alaikum


I don't know...

those who are kind would care..

wassalam


jazakALLAH khair

[Abu Mus'ab]

I got that definition from Yusuf Estes, not from Qiyas's all in one encyclopedia. Why don't you tell us what Kaafir means, and it's root word etc, just to clarify for us all...
Is yusuf estes an aalim?

[Qiyas]

Is yusuf estes an aalim?
No, but how does that make the info wrong. If it's wrong can you please clarify...

[Abu Mus'ab]

Lol Aakhi, you still haven't told me the 'correct' definition (in your eyes) of what the word kaafir means etc...

I don't have a "in my eyes" definition, i only have the shari definition, and the shari definition of a kaafir is someone who hears of Islam and doesn't accept it, it is not a requirement that someone must bring islam to his doorstep, if he hears about islam then he must go learn about it.

That is the shari definition.

[Qiyas]

I don't have a "in my eyes" definition, i only have the shari definition, and the shari definition of a kaafir is someone who hears of Islam and doesn't accept it, it is not a requirement that someone must bring islam to his doorstep, if he hears about islam then he must go learn about it.

That is the shari definition.

What is said about the one who hears the message and doesn't understand ?

Or one who doesn't receive the message ?

[zaki]

Well to be honest I have non-Muslim family so Im sure that they will care about me if I were to die before them...

Many Non-Muslims have Muslim friends so they would care if a friend were to die
I'm sure the Non-Muslim members on the forum who have made friends with Muslim members on this forum would be sad to hear someone dying as well

[.: Anna :.]

How much clearer did you want me to make the point:

Kuffar is one who covers the truth
non-Muslim is one who doesn't know the truth. This is from a lecture by Yusuf Estes

If you think that I just want to hear people dissing kuffar, then I'd have made it a public poll (i.e. people could see who voted for what).

You can close the poll, if it offends you...

It doesn't offend me I just find it stupid.

[Saudi Prince]

I don't have a "in my eyes" definition, i only have the shari definition, and the shari definition of a kaafir is someone who hears of Islam and doesn't accept it, it is not a requirement that someone must bring islam to his doorstep, if he hears about islam then he must go learn about it.

That is the shari definition.

But what does 'hear' here mean?

[Cartman]

rhe poll is badly designed, but by your specifif definition, then it would obviously have to eb no

[Baybars]

So definitely do care.

[Jilbabi]

we cant label evry1 so id say it depends on the person :)

[afsalim]

Not all Muslims are the same. Same applies for non-Muslims as well.

[Armand]

It is only fair if the question was also asked in the reverse.

[carol_au]

That's just your definition of kuffaar, that's not the shari definition.


That is also the definition used at Al Kauther courses and we were taught by Sh Tawfique Chaudrey and others who teach the courses.

[carol_au]

:salams:

This is a Muslim only poll. Do any of you feel that Kuffar (i.e. one who covers the truth, and not your ordinary joe bloggs non-Muslim) really care about the death or murder of a Muslim (and I mean a fully practicing Muslim, not a Britney Spears wannabe) ?

Before my reversion.. when I fitted into both definitions given of Kuffar I DID care for Muslims. Infact I joined the group Women for Palestine and wrote to our then Prime Minister to protest the invasion of Iraq before the soldiers went in.. simply because I DID care about Muslims.

I wasn't alone either.. there were more than a few of us sharing the same concerns.. so I had to vote that yes. I do think there are non-muslims who really do care

[RazielTemp]

Ok, just to repeat, in this poll, I'm talking about Kuffar according to the exact definition, i.e. one who covers (in this case, the truth). When I say Kuffar, I don't mean those non-Muslims who don't know the truth...

it also means One who Rejects the Truth ... and the Question can arise after the Message of Al-Islam has reached Him/Her ...

the Vast Majority of Non-Muslims are not seeking the Truth/Al-Haqq, so they don't care, and even if those that cared, they cared little of the Akhira, Unless of course they were of the Ahlul-Kitab who had firm belief in the Day of Judgment/in AKhira,

:jkk:

[RazielTemp]

Not all Muslims are the same. Same applies for non-Muslims as well.

Akhi you havent given an Answer to the Question, but posted a Vague statement thats neither here nor there, which everyone knows ...

:jkk:

[miss-islamic]

The level of mourning (esp. by political-affiliated people) of murder is based on who the murderers are (i.e. the silence is deafening when it’s your own for both sides). Another reason to not be political -- it dehumanizes you (but you think you’re so humanized cuz of the grief you feel for the murdered in your camp). :rolleyes: Anyhoo, I believe we’re humans first, then Muslims, non-Muslim, etc. The irrational conspiracy mentality (esp. when it comes from people are suppose to be educated) is always amusing. Problem is when nobody else is laughing. :eek:

[neelu]

I didn't vote, the questions were too loaded. I don't think of the Kufaar as one homogenous borg mass who all think the same.

[mamadu]

Anyhoo, I believe we’re humans first, then Muslims, non-Muslim, etc. The irrational conspiracy mentality (esp. when it comes from people are suppose to be educated) is always amusing. Problem is when nobody else is laughing. :eek:This post is way too rational and humane for this forum.

It stands out in an uncanny way.

Anyway, thanks for posting that.

[Joha]

Before my reversion.. when I fitted into both definitions given of Kuffar I DID care for Muslims.

Invaluable comment that debunks for once and for all the myth that 'kuffar' don't care about Muslims.

You'll find the majority of them are good honest folk who care when any innocent people die, be they Muslim or non-Muslim. Just like most Muslims will care when an innocent non-Muslim dies.

I have plenty of non-Muslim friends who do get upset when Muslims die in Palestine, or in Iraq or in Afghanistan. Many do more than I've done for those people who're oppressed. From my experience most people do care. So I'm afraid experience and reality refute any theory that claims that most Kuffar only care about the deaths of non-Muslims.

The world isn't as polarised as it's become fashionable to make out.

[Abu Mus'ab]

That is also the definition used at Al Kauther courses and we were taught by Sh Tawfique Chaudrey and others who teach the courses.
That must be the new watered down "kuffaar friendly" definition, it's only propagated by people living in the west and modernists.

[Pippin1376]

I didn't vote, the questions were too loaded. I don't think of the Kufaar as one homogenous borg mass who all think the same.

I feel that way too. I know some may not care, but if I died I'm pretty certain that my non-Muslim friends and neighbours would be sad.

[mamadu]

The world isn't as polarised as it's become fashionable to make out.This whole kuffar/muslim thing is of course totally magnified by an "Islamic bubble" such as this forum.

The world is quite big, and the vast majority of people couldn't care less about muslim/kuffar disputes.

In fact, I always found that this obsession with "Abrahamic" religions was a sign of parochialism and MiddleEast-centrism.

Luckily, there is no center of the world, and God (if he speaks) will most surely honour every single language in the world, without any preferences.

[Joha]

In fact, I always found that this obsession with "Abrahamic" religions was a sign of parochialism and MiddleEast-centrism.


Don't get me wrong here, I hold Abrahamic religions above all others, in that in their present character they are still, with one possible exception, monotheistic.

Which is more than can be said for many others. In fact I cannot think of any others that have the same view of God as a single Personal God who cares about us and has created us for a reason.

Are there any others?

[mamadu]

Don't get me wrong here, I hold Abrahamic religions above all others, in that in their present character they are still, with one possible exception, monotheistic.

Which is more than can be said for many others. In fact I cannot think of any others that have the same view of God as a single Personal God who cares about us and has created us for a reason.

Are there any others?What's so special about monotheism ? all so-called animistic religions, which recognize several divinities, spirits etc deal in fact with different aspects of the spiritual, the unseen, in short of what we cannot easily grasp with our human logic.

You can call that a personal God, if you prefer. You can call it the Universe. In fact, you can call it whatever you like.

These are just words, words, words.

And words are not even a dime a dozen.

[RazielTemp]

What is said about the one who hears the message and doesn't understand ?

Or one who doesn't receive the message ?

The duty of a Human being is to seek the Purpose of his existence, if he remains careless, then he/she can hardly blame Allah ta'ala for not spoon feeding them with Islam,

:jkk:

[Joha]

What's so special about monotheism ? all so-called animistic religions, which recognize several divinities, spirits etc deal in fact with different aspects of the spiritual, the unseen, in short of what we cannot easily grasp with our human logic.

You can call that a personal God, if you prefer. You can call it the Universe. In fact, you can call it whatever you like.

These are just words, words, words.

And words are not even a dime a dozen.

I call a personal God a God who actively takes an interest in our affairs, who wants us to do well, who guides us, who helps us, and where necessary teaches us a lesson by sending prophets and messengers, by sending codes of life.

Is that the same sort of God you have in 'animistic' religions? If not then these aren't just words.

You can call it what you like, but ultimately He is defined by His attributes. And if His attributes aren't the same attributes as those of the god(s) of the animists then the concepts are all very very different.

[mamadu]

I call a personal God a God who actively takes an interest in our affairs, who wants us to do well, who guides us, who helps us, and where necessary teaches us a lesson by sending prophets and messengers, by sending codes of life.

Is that the same sort of God you have in 'animistic' religions? If not then these aren't just words.

You can call it what you like, but ultimately He is defined by His attributes. And if His attributes aren't the same attributes as those of the god(s) of the animists then the concepts are all very very different.Since God is the totality of everything which exists (how could someone conceive God as being excluded from parts of the Universe ?), it's difficult to imagine him as separate from us, as a kind of "general overseer", admonishing us, sending prophets and messengers (by the way, with various degrees of success, and getting it right only after several failed attempts).

All these aspects of a personal God are, in my view, very strange and even more complex than the idea itself of the Trinity (which is just, in fact underlining the different aspects of the same God)

The original idea in Christianity is in my view this coincidence between mankind and God (in the person of Jesus, true God and true Man) which bridges the total separation you have, e.g. in Islam between creator and created. It is intellectually fascinating even if, ultimately, just as confusing if you take it literally.

Animism, basically, just says that all things participate somehow in the same essence, in its incalculable number of manifestations. People who recognize this unity don't feel as strangers in the world, but as parts of it. Nowhere you will find however a coherent set of "animistic" beliefs.

Revealed religions are organized around narrations ... which (IMHO) are, mostly, allegories, parables, similes, illustrations... to take them literally in my view, is a desperate reaction to the confused situation we're in, trying to work out identities and guidelines in the continuous flow of existence and being...