2 girls vs some of today Muslim women!

[Saudi Prince]

After reading some comments of some sisters in the forum, I have decided to tell the story of 2 girls, which I have read not in the guardian or daily telegraph newspapaers but in the Quran! As mentioned in the Quran, the story says:



"Then, when he turned his face towards (the land of) Madyan, he said: "I do hope that my Lord will show me the smooth and straight Path."[22]And when he arrived at the watering (place) in Madyan, he found there a group of men watering (their flocks), and besides them he found two women who were keeping back (their flocks). He said: "What is the matter with you?" They said: "We cannot water (our flocks) until the shepherds take back (their flocks): And our father is a very old man."[23]So he watered (their flocks) for them; then he turned back to the shade, and said:"O my Lord! truly am I in (desperate) need of any good that Thou dost send me!"[24]Afterwards one of the (damsels) came (back) to him, walking bashfully. She said: "My father invites thee that he may reward thee for having watered (our flocks) for us." So when he came to him and narrated the story, he said: "Fear thou not: (well) hast thou escaped from unjust people."[25]Said one of the (damsels): "O my (dear) father! engage him on wages: truly the best of men for thee to employ is the (man) who is strong and trusty".... [26]He said: "I intend to wed one of these my daughters to thee, on condition that thou serve me for eight years; but if thou complete ten years, it will be (grace) from thee. But I intend not to place thee under a difficulty: thou wilt find me, indeed, if Allah wills, one of the righteous."[27]He said: "Be that (the agreement) between me and thee: whichever of the two terms I fulfil, let there be no ill-will to me. Be Allah a witness to what we say." [28]

Ref: Quran [22,23,24,25,26,27,28 : 28]


The personalities in the story are:

1- Mosa (A.S).
2- Shoaib (A.S) there is by the way other opinions too.
3- The 2 girls, the daughters of Shoaib (A.S).

One important thing that should be noted here is that Mosa (A.S) was himself escaping from Phearoh and when he reached Madyan he found those 2 girls, who they don't know him, and the story started as you've just read.

Now, let's be honest with ourselves and admit that if Mosa (A.S) was to go and ask (as a normal man) a sister from the type I talked about at the beginning of this thread, I have no doubt in my mind that she would give him a harsh look or just ignore him or accuse him of trying to chat her up! :rolleyes:

Also let's admit that some sisters would not answer his salam let alone his offer to help! :rolleyes:

However, this was not the case with the 2 daughters of Shoaib (A.S)! The Quran tells us that the daughters of Shoaib (A.S) have replied to the stranger, Mosa (A.S) and have accepted his help! Also, one of them came back to Mosa (A.S) after telling her father and asked him to come to her father's house!

So, sisters let's read our Quran carefully and let's keep our cultural stuff aside!

[GuCcI]

wat? no sister would give Musa (as) a dirty look. wat r u talking about :rubeyes:

[Saudi Prince]

wat? no sister would give Musa (as) a dirty look. wat r u talking about :rubeyes:

You do not understand what I'm talking about! Read again.

[GuCcI]

listen, it depends on the situation to respond.

[Pippin1376]

I'm sure many sisters here are more quiet in real life. I know I am. If he asked said salam I would say it back, why wouldn't I? If he offered to help me, alhamdulillah. Would I talk? I hardly talk in real life, so I doubt that situation would make me talk more.

I'm not really understanding what you are saying, but it's a nice story nonetheless.

[Saudi Prince]

I'm sure many sisters here are more quiet in real life. I know I am. If he asked said salam I would say it back, why wouldn't I? If he offered to help me, alhamdulillah. Would I talk? I hardly talk in real life, so I doubt that situation would make me talk more.

I'm not really understanding what you are saying, but it's a nice story nonetheless.

Some sisters say they don't answer men's salam! They don't say salam to them! Some brothers have even said they wouldn't salam a woman or reply to her not even when she asks for help!

Some sisters even suggested that they should look miserable even if they're nice inside when men are present! :rolleyes: If a brother offer help or say salam they think he does this to chat them up!

I say this is not Islam! This is suspision and I don't like it nor agree with it! Do you agree with such sisters who think the whole world is after them?

[Saudi Prince]

listen, it depends on the situation to respond.

I know your answer. You said it many times- you don't like brothers salaming you. So, no need for argument here as I already know your answer.

[SD.]

Saudi Prince, you've raised quite a point. I believe ladies back in the day were easygoing without harboring suspicions against brothers approaching them or greeting them. However, in today's society and all the violence and mischievous men, I can understand where all this is coming from.

It's difficult to picture myself walking in Al-Khobar or Dammam and greeting a sister randomly in a mall or store. But it all boils down to the sister's nature though.

[Pippin1376]

Some sisters say they don't answer men's salam! They don't say salam to them! Some brothers have even said they wouldn't salam a woman or reply to her not even when she asks for help!
If some sisters don't say salam to the men, I don't see the problem. If they don't because they are afraid of the fitna it may cause, then good on them. Some brothers don't even say it, because they fear the fitna. Again, good on them because they fear Allah. If you are sure that it's not going to cause fitna, then return the salam or say it.

Some sisters even suggested that they should look miserable even if they're nice inside when men are present! :rolleyes: If a brother offer help or say salam they think he does this to chat them up!

I say this is not Islam! This is suspision and I don't like it nor agree with it! Do you agree with such sisters who think the whole world is after them?
If the sisters think this way it's probably because some brothers do this. I had one sister in real life tell me this Muslim brother kept following her, when she stopped he came up to her, said Salam. She returned it, then he asked if she was single, if yes then if it would be okay for him to marry her. It has happened brother.

That said, I don't think they should look miserable, but they should lower their gaze and follow what the Quran and the Sunnah taught us to do. It depends on the sister on what they would do, and how they view the hadiths, etc...

[Saudi Prince]

If some sisters don't say salam to the men, I don't see the problem. If they don't because they are afraid of the fitna it may cause, then good on them. Some brothers don't even say it, because they fear the fitna. Again, good on them because they fear Allah. If you are sure that it's not going to cause fitna, then return the salam or say it.

If the sisters don't want to say salam then that's fine for me! But why can't she reply?! Is her Iman so weak that it will get completely broken by saying "wa alaikom assalam"? Don't these type of sisters go shopping with the speed of light? Did they ever think they're going to interact with men in the shops?


If the sisters think this way it's probably because some brothers do this. I had one sister in real life tell me this Muslim brother kept following her, when she stopped he came up to her, said Salam. She returned it, then he asked if she was single, if yes then if it would be okay for him to marry her. It has happened brother.

You're just trying to say something different! If an idiot makes a mistake then this does not mean that we should suspect everybody! If a doctor makes a mistake them this doen't mean we go and close down hospitals!


That said, I don't think they should look miserable, but they should lower their gaze and follow what the Quran and the Sunnah taught us to do. It depends on the sister on what they would do, and how they view the hadiths, etc...

I agree with you it's up to them if they want to follow their culture instead of Quran and sunnah. :rolleyes:

[Kubs]

Some sisters say they don't answer men's salam! They don't say salam to them! Some brothers have even said they wouldn't salam a woman or reply to her not even when she asks for help!

Some sisters even suggested that they should look miserable even if they're nice inside when men are present! :rolleyes: If a brother offer help or say salam they think he does this to chat them up!

I say this is not Islam! This is suspision and I don't like it nor agree with it! Do you agree with such sisters who think the whole world is after them?

There is nothing wrong with exchanging salaams....as long as it's quick and doesn't go beyond that.

It depends on the situation...the circumstance...and which type of man they are approached by. I personally can tell the difference between a genuine person and someone who's looking for more.

You don't ignore every male that comes your way - that's just strange. But neither do you smile or act flirtatious with ANY man. Prevention is better than cure.

[GuCcI]

I know your answer. You said it many times- you don't like brothers salaming you. So, no need for argument here as I already know your answer.

salaming me for no reason :rolleyes: if theres a reason then theres nothing wrong with that.
one time i was going to work and a man stopped and said salam and quickly asked where the closest mosque for jumah was. since im horrible at directions i just called my dad :o

[Saudi Prince]

There is nothing wrong with exchanging salaams....as long as it's quick and doesn't go beyond that.

It depends on the situation...the circumstance...and which type of man they are approached by. I personally can tell the difference between a genuine person and someone who's looking for more.

You don't ignore every male that comes your way - that's just strange. But neither do you smile or act flirtatious with ANY man. Prevention is better than cure.

Good post. Suppose I pass by you while I was looking for the bank. I stopped and said, 'assalamo alaikom sister. Would please tell me the way to the mosque". Would you answer my salam? Would you tell me where the mosque is? Or would just think I'm a pervert who is trying to chat you up?

[Saudi Prince]

Saudi Prince, you've raised quite a point. I believe ladies back in the day were easygoing without harboring suspicions against brothers approaching them or greeting them. However, in today's society and all the violence and mischievous men, I can understand where all this is coming from.

It's difficult to picture myself walking in Al-Khobar or Dammam and greeting a sister randomly in a mall or store. But it all boils down to the sister's nature though.

I wouldn't salam men nor women in the mall as there are so many there and if I were to do so I would be like a repeating machine!

[Saudi Prince]

salaming me for no reason :rolleyes: if theres a reason then theres nothing wrong with that.

I can't figure the logic behind your contradicting answers.


one time i was going to work and a man stopped and said salam and quickly asked where the closest mosque for jumah was. since im horrible at directions i just called my dad :o

Do you think he should have not asked you?

[Kubs]

Good post. Suppose I pass by you while I was looking for the bank. I stopped and said, 'assalamo alaikom sister. Would please tell me the way to the mosque". Would you answer my salam? Would you tell me where the mosque is? Or would just think I'm a pervert who is trying to chat you up?

Obviously I'd give you the directions. As for the salaams....it's common courtesy to reply back.

[Saudi Prince]

Obviously I'd give you the directions. As for the salaams....it's common courtesy to reply back.

Good! Okay kubs, I have no objection to what you say. I do agree with your understanding of this issue.

[Joha]

Do you think he should have not asked you?

SP what's your point? I think it's safe to say that most people on the forum who appear 'irrational' and 'extreme' are just normal nice people in real life who can tell when somebody is 'chatting them up' or just being nice.

It's the easiest thing in the world. Now if somebody introduced themselves as 'Saudi Prince' or 'Saudi Princess' I for one would run a mile :D

Come to think of it - you've never explained the logic behind the name, is there one?

ps: for the record - I have no problems, I say salam freely, men, women, boys, girls, if somebody is uppity and doesn't reply, that's their call :)

[Saudi Prince]

SP what's your point? I think it's safe to say that most people on the forum who appear 'irrational' and 'extreme' are just normal nice people in real life who can tell when somebody is 'chatting them up' or just being nice.

It's the easiest thing in the world. Now if somebody introduced themselves as 'Saudi Prince' or 'Saudi Princess' I for one would run a mile :D

Come to think of it - you've never explained the logic behind the name, is there one?

ps: for the record - I have no problems, I say salam freely, men, women, boys, girls, if somebody is uppity and doesn't reply, that's their call :)


Joha, if a woman salams you, would you just walk away? Some of the nice people you tell me about do this. Will Joha do the same?

[~Warda~]

Good post. Suppose I pass by you while I was looking for the bank. I stopped and said, 'assalamo alaikom sister. Would please tell me the way to the mosque". Would you answer my salam? Would you tell me where the mosque is? Or would just think I'm a pervert who is trying to chat you up?

:smack:
Well if its a genuine situation then yeah, its no biggie, im sure any muslim sis will show u the direction quickly and move on. But if u said it without need, then no, personally i'd just ignore u or reply under my breath which u wouldnt even hear :rolleyes:

And the reason so many sis would think ur a perve is because there are many men who would use any excuse to chat u up. And u can't always tell whos a genuine person and whos not. So we prefer to stay on the safe side.

[Saudi Prince]

:smack:
Well if its a genuine situation then yeah, its no biggie, im sure any muslim sis will show u the direction quickly and move on. But if u said it without need, then no, personally i'd just ignore u or reply under my breath which u wouldnt even hear :rolleyes:

What makes you think I ask without a need? You don't know me!

And the reason so many sis would think ur a perve is because there are many men who would use any excuse to chat u up. And u can't always tell whos a genuine person and whos not. So we prefer to stay on the safe side.

If the man looks respectful then there is no need to suspect him! Also, it is you who can control your mouth..just answer the question no need for chat.

[Joha]

Joha, if a woman salams you, would you just walk away? Some of the nice people you tell me about do this. Will Joha do the same?

Of course not, I'd say salam, stop and have a chat too - human beings are fascinating creatures... nothing is more fun then flitting into somebody else's life for a few minutes :D

See, you're misunderstanding me, I have no qualms. What I do object to is over analysing something like this :rolleyes:

Silly hypothetical questions....

[GuCcI]

I can't figure the logic behind your contradicting answers.

Do you think he should have not asked you?

its not contradicting because i never said, no brother should ever talk to a sister for any reason whatsoever. if i said that, only then i would be contradicting myself.

but when theres no real reason as to why he should approach me, then theres no point.

he did right asking me or else he would have missed jumah. of course im going to help someone when they need it and if its in my capabilities.

[Saudi Prince]

Of course not, I'd say salam, stop and have a chat too - human beings are fascinating creatures... nothing is more fun then flitting into somebody else's life for a few minutes :D

See, you're misunderstanding me, I have no qualms. What I do object to is over analysing something like this :rolleyes:

Silly hypothetical questions....

You didn't answer my question. Would you feel unhappy if a woman salams you?

[Saudi Prince]

but when theres no real reason as to why he should approach me, then theres no point.


When a respected brother passes by some sisters (not approach them) and says salams they just ignore him! In the contrary, they run to supermarkets applying for jobs where they are commanded by men, usually kafers.

[GuCcI]

Some sisters, when aa respected brother passes by them (not approach them) and says salams they just ignore him! In the contrary, they run to supermarkets applying for jobs where they are commanded by men, usually kafers.

well then thats up to them. we'll all be accountable for our faults.

[Saudi Prince]

well then thats up to them. we'll all be accountable for our faults.

I know that but I just disaprove of what they do.

[GuCcI]

I know that but I just disaprove of what they do.

i know and i think almost everyone on this forum probably knows as you have reiterated this so many times not only in this thread but other threads related and nonrelated too :p

[ummbilal]

Good post. Suppose I pass by you while I was looking for the bank. I stopped and said, 'assalamo alaikom sister. Would please tell me the way to the mosque". Would you answer my salam? Would you tell me where the mosque is? Or would just think I'm a pervert who is trying to chat you up?

i would say walakum salaam wa rahmatulahi and give directions, but if u asked more i would advise u to go to the masjid

[Saudi Prince]

i know and i think almost everyone on this forum probably knows as you have reiterated this so many times not only in this thread but other threads related and nonrelated too :p

I repeat it to educate some people who contradict themselves.

[Saudi Prince]

i would say walakum salaam wa rahmatulahi and give directions, but if u asked more i would advise u to go to the masjid

Good but what do you mean by 'if u asked more' here?

[ummbilal]

Good but what do you mean by 'if u asked more' here?

I mean brothers have stopped me and asked what seemed like a guenuine question like where is the masjid etc.. when i answer they try and start a convosation like, so where u from or are u married, if brothers behaved themselves then us sisters wouldnt be on our guard all the time, so any further questions i would ignore or tell them to fear Allah.

mostly i have a mahren with me now days anyway Allhumdulilah.

[GuCcI]

I repeat it to educate some people who contradict themselves.

yup

[Saudi Prince]

I mean brothers have stopped me and asked what seemed like a guenuine question like where is the masjid etc.. when i answer they try and start a convosation like, so where u from or are u married, if brothers behaved themselves then us sisters wouldnt be on our guard all the time, so any further questions i would ignore or tell them to fear Allah.

mostly i have a mahren with me now days anyway Allhumdulilah.

I don't disagree with this as long as you answer a brother's salam and respond to his decent request.

but I think it is fairer to use 'us brothers' vs 'us sisters' as there are also sisters who try to chat us up in real life!

[Pippin1376]

I mean brothers have stopped me and asked what seemed like a guenuine question like where is the masjid etc.. when i answer they try and start a convosation like, so where u from or are u married, if brothers behaved themselves then us sisters wouldnt be on our guard all the time, so any further questions i would ignore or tell them to fear Allah.

mostly i have a mahren with me now days anyway Allhumdulilah.

I never get the marriage question. Just a lecture on why I don't know my native language... :(

[Umm_Hanzalah]

I mean brothers have stopped me and asked what seemed like a guenuine question like where is the masjid etc.. when i answer they try and start a convosation like, so where u from or are u married, if brothers behaved themselves then us sisters wouldnt be on our guard all the time, so any further questions i would ignore or tell them to fear Allah.

mostly i have a mahren with me now days anyway Allhumdulilah.

That's so true. With some people, the fact that you have spoken to them by just saying 'wa alaikum assalam', makes them think they can now chat to you however they feel like...not all are like this though. But, you can't blame sisters for being wary.

However, like Kubs said you can usually tell which brothers are genuine and who are just saying salams out of politeness. I wouldn't initiate it, however.

[Joha]

....as there are also sisters who try to chat us up in real life!

bit full of ya self :rolleyes:

Can I just summarise your own personal little war on ummah.com?

You'd like people to say that they will reply to the salam whenever anyone says it to them?

And they say people start wars for silly reasons these days...

[sultanX]

^I don't get what you mean by that

okay, just going up to a sister and saying salam is just weird so what's the problem with not replying because they suspect that you have some ulterior motives? There is nothing wrong with suspecting that in today's society.

If I needed some information, such as where the nearest masjid was, then even after she didn't reply I'd quickly ask anyways because I need to know. If someone wanted to start a conversation or something, they'd just either stand there looking insulted and leave, or, if they were going to ask a legitimate question to start off, they'd ask it to save themselves from embarassment. Or, if they were really stupid, they'd even continue to start a conversation.

I just don't see your point, sorry.

I never get the marriage question. Just a lecture on why I don't know my native language... :(
I get really dirty looks because I reply to people in English when they ask me something in Urdu. Even though I say I can understand but can't speak and say it very nicely (humbly?), they seem to think that I am one of those "white-washed" kids and if I see them again they're hostile and ignore me.

[hanifa]

Saudi Prince,

I supported you before on the principle, but why are you pushing? Shyness is a quality of the Muslim, and there is no need to try and break down the barrier of shyness.

The story you quote should be looked at with the hadeeth and explanations associated.

1. the girls had a need which needed to be solved (lest their father's sheep died).
2. Musa had a need, but did not mention it to the girls.
3. Musa asked God to solve his need.
4. One of he girls admired his retisence
5. Allah provided Musa the fulfilment of his needs through the girl and her father

Here is the story again:

Moses and Zaphorah

After waiting for a long time in the queue, being only two females among all the males, someone finally helped them, and they were able to take their flock of sheep and goats home. Their father was old, and they had no brother to do their outside chores. Being one of the most onerous of tasks, drawing water from the well in order to water one’s livestock was one performed by men; a lucky day for them to come home early with the drove freshly watered. The father was surprised about their early return, and when he inquired into the occurrence, his daughters told him that a man who seemed a traveler had helped them. The father asked one of them to seek the man out and invite him home. Upon returning to the well, the lady approached him shyly. When she was in earshot, she gave him her father’s invitation so that he might recompense him for his help. He kept his gaze low to the ground as he replied to her, saying that he had done it for the sake of God alone, and required no compensation. However, realizing that this was God sent help, he accepted the invitation. As she was walking ahead of him, the wind blew her dress, which revealed part of her lower legs, so he asked her to walk behind him and point out the way he should follow when he reached a fork in the foot path.

Once they arrived at the house, the father presented him with a meal and asked where he was from. The man told him that he was a fugitive from Egypt. The daughter who had brought him home whispered to her father:

“O Father, hire him, because the best of the workers is one who is strong and trustworthy.”

He asked her: “How do you know he is strong?”

She said: “He lifted the stone lid of the well that cannot be removed except by many together.”

He asked her: “How do you know that he is trustworthy?”

She said: “He asked me to walk behind him so that he couldn’t see me as I walked, and when I conversed with him, he kept his gaze low with shyness and respect.”

This was Prophet Moses, may God praise him, who had run away from Egypt after killing someone by mistake, and the father of the girls was a God fearing man from the tribes of Midian; a man who was sonless, but had had these two daughters.

The verse in the Quran that tells us this story stresses upon the manner of her approaching Moses:

“So one of the two (daughters) came to him walking modestly...”
(Quran 28:25)

Both the way Zaphorah approached Moses and his care about not seeing more of her than was needful at the time describe acute senses of propriety. Neither had a chaperone, nor could people see what they did, yet both conducted themselves with the utmost decorum. This was done out of fear of the One who sees everything. The outcome was that when her father proposed to Moses that he marry one of his daughters, Moses considered them a suitable marriage prospect. He and his daughters also saw in him all the virtues a man needs as a mate for a woman to consent to his guidance and nurture through life. Moses accepted, and also ten years hire as a shepherd.

Source = Stories of Modesty (http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/398/)

[Saudi Prince]

Saudi Prince,

I supported you before on the principle, but why are you pushing? Shyness is a quality of the Muslim, and there is no need to try and break down the barrier of shyness.

The story you quote should be looked at with the hadeeth and explanations associated.

1. the girls had a need which needed to be solved (lest their father's sheep died).
2. Musa had a need, but did not mention it to the girls.
3. Musa asked God to solve his need.
4. One of he girls admired his retisence
5. Allah provided Musa the fulfilment of his needs through the girl and her father



In what way am I pushing it? Did you hear me asking anyone to be shamless?

The story I quoted clarifys that a man can communicate with a woman!

-As for the need, the girls were waiting for everybody to go so that they can water their sheep. They did not ask Mosa A.S for help. It was him who offered his help.

- Mosa did not want anything from the girls and when he finished, he went and sat under a tree's shadow.

And I don't know how point 4, and 5 are related to the topic being discussed.

All I'm saying is when a decent man says salam reply with wa alaikom assalam and nobody should make fuss about! When a decent man offers you a help, don't just thik he did this to chat you up!

[beamz]

I dont think there is anything wrong with returning salam, in fact its wajib, i have been in this situation where a muslim brother has asked me for directions and knowing the directions, i directed him in a proper manner, sisters you will know whether he is genuine or whether he is looking for something else dont judge, or assume.

[jus'me]

...if a woman doesnt want to return a salaam then thts up to her...ofcourse as someone mentioned in fear of fitnah etc.

its impractical to relate everything back to the times of the Prophets
(theres so much fitnah and corruption in the dunya today)

[jus'me]

if the sister senses that there is genuinty in the person giving salaam then by all means help the person out within limits etc...but i think this difference in opinion only arises becasue of the advantage some ppl take in giving salaam...

[Saudi Prince]

if the sister senses that there is genuinty in the person giving salaam then by all means help the person out within limits etc...but i think this difference in opinion only arises becasue of the advantage some ppl take in giving salaam...

Explain.

[jus'me]

ryt...ok well errm..at times when walking, say a 'brother' walks past you..he'll giv you eye contact and then say salaam in the most sleaziest, disgusting manner ever...i mean for them its a method of making convo..

now i wouldnt want to return tht persons salaam...simply because i knw he didnt mean it..had i returned the salaam..as i had done so in the past...he'd further comment and say something like 'subhanallah/mashallah sister..where are u frm?...eugh!:torture:


So to avoid all of tht...just simply dont return the salaam..

[beamz]

ryt...ok well errm..at times when walking, say a 'brother' walks past you..he'll giv you eye contact and then say salaam in the most sleaziest, disgusting manner ever...i mean for them its a method of making convo..

now i wouldnt want to return tht persons salaam...simply because i knw he didnt mean it..had i returned the salaam..as i had done so in the past...he'd further comment and say something like 'subhanallah/mashallah sister..where are u frm?...eugh!:torture:


So to avoid all of tht...just simply dont return the salaam..

thats why i mentioned you have make sure hes genuine or not i would never reply to someone who says anything in that manner, we have to be extremly careful especially these days.

[jus'me]

Do you have anything to add to that SaudiPrince?..inshallah you understand the point some sisters have tried to make...

[Pippin1376]

I dont think there is anything wrong with returning salam, in fact its wajib, i have been in this situation where a muslim brother has asked me for directions and knowing the directions, i directed him in a proper manner, sisters you will know whether he is genuine or whether he is looking for something else dont judge, or assume.

I agree with this. It hurts the guys feelings, but sometimes it's their fault too. I was leaving work and it was late, there was some of my co-workers, plus two security guards outside, so I talked to them while waiting for my dad. A brother came up to me and said Salam, I said Salam back then he started asking me personal questions. I just went back closer to my friends and he said, "I'm a Muslim you know but whatever" and he walked away angry. Mind you it is 12 in the morning and he is approaching me, it freaked me out to the extreme.

[hanifa]

In what way am I pushing it? Did you hear me asking anyone to be shamless?
Why press and press on the business of salaaming women and gallantly offering them help? Not shameless, exactly; but you seem to advocate free salaaming on a proactive basis, whenever the opportunity arises.

The story I quoted clarifys that a man can communicate with a woman! If there is a need

-As for the need, the girls were waiting for everybody to go so that they can water their sheep. They did not ask Mosa A.S for help. It was him who offered his help.
Did I say they did? The fact that Musa offered help confirms the permissibility of doing so as the Prophet, may Allah praise him, offered help to Asma binte Abu Bakr.

- Mosa did not want anything from the girls and when he finished, he went and sat under a tree's shadow.
Not from the girls, but from Allah. He said to Allah: "My Lord! I am in need of any good that You can send me.” (Quran 28:24)"

And I don't know how point 4, and 5 are related to the topic being discussed.
The points are all about necessity and uneeded talk. Modesty and loose behaviour.

The particular points (4 and 5) is that a woman will admire a man who is not forward and going out of his way to pass them and speak - whether it is with salam or not. They also like men who demonstrate action for the sake of Allah through not following up help by a demand on them for recognition of the act.

The fifth point is that the one of the girls became mahram to him through marriage because of the constraint between them - not through being 'familiar' with each other. The only reason the girl returned to speak to him is because her father ordered her to.


I am not sayin this has a direct bearing on returning salam, but it does have a lot to do with the etiquette of offering help.


Furthermore a women need not accept offers of help. Asma binte Abu Bakr didn't, even though it was the Prophet (MAPH), her sister's husband, that offered.

All I'm saying is when a decent man says salam reply with wa alaikom assalam and nobody should make fuss about! When a decent man offers you a help, don't just thik he did this to chat you up!

Fair enough. But what if the man is not decent? How can a girl/woman tell? What should she do if the man tries to prelong the conversation? How can a woman/girl avoid such men.

A modern day example of speaking when necessary is a story I was told a about a modern day woman, a plain girl of 17 years, who was stalked by a handsome fair-haired hunk. Apparently, he was one of those who was convinced a girl would simply faint with desire from looking at him, for he said nothing. Just always putting himself in her way. She got so fed up with him that, one day, she rounded on him and told him he was like an ineffectual fox following a herd of sheep, hoping for a chance to pick up a stray lamb. Why didn't he act like a brave lion, and stand up and be direct. The boy was so shamed that he didn't appear in her wake for the rest of her school days.

However, he did visit her family and ask for her hand directly three years later, and now they are happily married.

There are two sides to every coin. And there is an old English saying many go by: "Prevention is better than a cure."

Hanifa