Who is 'radicalising' the Muslim youth?

[Salman Al-Farsi]

Assalam Alaykum

I was wondering how everyone feels about this question nowadays, together with the fact that I was craving to create poll :)

Who is behind the 'radicalisation' of Muslim youth in the West?

Imams and Mosques: This seems to be the view of the neo-cons

Radical Muslim groups: This views mostly held by the government.

Foreign policy: This is one of the views held by Muslims.

Criminalisation: How Muslims are being treated as guilty until proven innocent.

Internet discussion forums: Private Islamic discussion forums where allegedly young muslims are groomed to do radical stuff

Unemployment. This view suggests unemployed Muslim youth from ghettos become radical, ie they have nothing better to do.

[fisabilllillah]

what do you mean by 'radicalising'? in this day n age there appears to be several different definitions for one word.

[RashidD]

Salmaan bhai, May ALLAH reward you for creating threads which might lead to a proper discussion.

[Kal-El]

Excellent thread. I think you'll find that one or two have them are directly related.

[fisabilllillah]

Because of the attack on Islam- I think Muslims have become more conscious of their deen and as a result there has been a great interest in Islam and Muslims are practising their deen more than ever despite the bad rep given in the media. The Muslim youth are more active in dawah and learning than before in recent years and perhaps more aware of their islamic identity given the conditions of their situation.

However if you are talking about terrorism (killing inoccent civilians), then I think this is a result of the foreign policy.;


im still not quite sure what you mean by 'radicalising'....if it means Muslims practising their deen than I would not equate this entirely with foreign policy there are many other factors and conditions which cause people to stick firmly to their deen.

[seven]

i would say foreign policy and criminalisation is probably the catalyst that directs the youth towards the path of radicalism... who leads them up the path... i think there's all sorts of factors involved... like islamist groups, internet, the company they keep etc.

i don't know about imaams and masjids... never really seen that as a factor... (maybe i've never been to those types of masjids/imaams)

[Abu Mus'ab]

What do you mean by 'radicalising'?

[Morris]

I voted other - themselves. Not 'soe-sie-eht-eee '. :rolleyes:

[Salman Al-Farsi]

Radicalisation is when people's ideas change from one state to another radically. eg from Lyrical babe to lyrical terrorist.

This has been a very important discussion amongst the Government, policy makers, left, neo cons and the Muslims peers. Think tanks like Policy exchange have tried very hard to confine the blame to radical Imams and mosques, they have done that through a recent publication where the evidences were fabricated and prior to that there were documentaries like the panorama/dispatches where they secretly filmed Imams and various mosques to make the case to show them as hate preachers. There have also been documentaries which showed how groups like ht or even TJ are radicalising the youth.

In my opinion it is true that there are some Islamic groups and radicalists out there luring young Muslims and feeding them/programming them in one specific way, which they become aware of 10 yrs later. However, there are also those who simply want to act as anti-tode for this which they can't do without becoming hypocrites.

Also I don't think this in itself is the main factor because everything is in the open nowadays thanks to internet. People don't need convincing that there is a war declared against their religion, they already know this due to mass media and information available. The question is, when Muslim youth feel this agitation where do they go for guidance?

I am not saying if 'radicalisation' is a good thing or not, its a government definition and for the last few years through newspaper articles, TV documentaries and dramas a certain view has been pushed answering this question. SO my purpose of creating this poll is to see how people feel about this now.

[Abu Mus'ab]

So in other words being a radical is being a muslim.

[Abu Hurairah]

Wa Alaikum wa Assalam,

The problem is in the terminology used as with most Western words- what is the definition of 'radicalism', 'radicalisation', 'radicals' etc to whom doing what deed is it applied? And who is it that is coining the term and what are the agendas for doing so?

Is the Muslim who insists on praying sallah five time a day safe to be called an 'fundamentalist' as he does what other Muslims around him do not? Yet on the other hand masha'allah he is applying the fundamentals of his deen as should all believers.

Then the sisters masha'allah who observe Niqaab/ Jilbaab/ Burkah- are they 'extremist' in that their dress sense is not revealing where as other females show a lot of flesh? But on the other hand they are clinging extremely well to the Sunnah masha'allah.

Etc.

Therein lies the problem- an example is that of Hizbut Tahrir brothers who more than others openly call for the re-establishment of the Khilafah who are labeled 'extreme' when they are merely voicing what many Muslims would love to the return of- what happened to 'freedom of speech'?

Are the average Abdullahs who want to live under Shari'ah 'fundementalist' too?- if so what happened to 'freedom of expression/ thought'?

And other matters such as jihaad according to the Qur'an and Sunnah are clear cut matters in Hadith and Qur'an- if one were to read/listen or spread the words of classical Muhaditheen and Mufasireen on this fardh would we be accused of following an 'evil doctrine/ ideology' of the 'Islamo-Fascists'?

For some to see what were before care free happy go lucky jahil shabbab turning their back on khamr, zinah, kufr, etc. and then for them in flocks to embrace the deen re-entering it wholeheartedly praying and applying the Sunnah in their lives, their families, and society as a whole is interpreted as a threat- a path to 'radicalism' for they cannot envision why any youth be they Muslim or other would forsake the temptations of the world for a life (and death) of submission to Allah (swt).

Allahu Alam.

Wa Alaikum wa Assalam

[al-ghazalli]

excellent thread Sidi Salman...I think there has to be a deep study of this issue since the causes are not that simple..and differ from one land to another.

Some aspects are socio-economical & there is no doubt we have other factors to consider from those people who call out for suicide attacks against the innocent.

But then we also socio-political aspects to consider especially in Muslim lands where tyrants rule..where no one is allowed to express their own opinion for fear of death..or their family being massacred.

Whatever happens we as Muslims must always stay within the realm of orthodoxy even when the situation looks weak.

Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah .” (Surat al-Anfal Verse 30)

[Abu Mus'ab]

Salmaan bhai, May ALLAH reward you for creating threads which might lead to a proper discussion.
I beg to differ, this thread has no goodness or benefit in it.

All this kaafir labels makes my stomach turn, i feel like i'm on a kaafir forum like cnn or something, if you want to use kufr labels then use it when talking about wordly stuff, not when it has anything to do with islam, i'm tired of all this terrorist radical islamist extremist nonsense, if you're referring to a muslim then use the terms the shariah uses, not what some brainless kaafir made up.

[Enigma Dreamer]

I didn't vote because I don't agree with the question. To me, it should have being something like do you belive in the so-called radicalisation. It is just another one of the never ending lists of terrorist, fundamentalist, extremist ...

[a mu-min]

Wa Alaikum wa Assalam,

The problem is in the terminology used as with most Western words- what is the definition of 'radicalism', 'radicalisation', 'radicals' etc to whom doing what deed is it applied? And who is it that is coining the term and what are the agendas for doing so?

Is the Muslim who insists on praying sallah five time a day safe to be called an 'fundamentalist' as he does what other Muslims around him do not? Yet on the other hand masha'allah he is applying the fundamentals of his deen as should all believers.

Then the sisters masha'allah who observe Niqaab/ Jilbaab/ Burkah- are they 'extremist' in that their dress sense is not revealing where as other females show a lot of flesh? But on the other hand they are clinging extremely well to the Sunnah masha'allah.

Etc.

Therein lies the problem- an example is that of Hizbut Tahrir brothers who more than others openly call for the re-establishment of the Khilafah who are labeled 'extreme' when they are merely voicing what many Muslims would love to the return of- what happened to 'freedom of speech'?

Are the average Abdullahs who want to live under Shari'ah 'fundementalist' too?- if so what happened to 'freedom of expression/ thought'?

And other matters such as jihaad according to the Qur'an and Sunnah are clear cut matters in Hadith and Qur'an- if one were to read/listen or spread the words of classical Muhaditheen and Mufasireen on this fardh would we be accused of following an 'evil doctrine/ ideology' of the 'Islamo-Fascists'?

For some to see what were before care free happy go lucky jahil shabbab turning their back on khamr, zinah, kufr, etc. and then for them in flocks to embrace the deen re-entering it wholeheartedly praying and applying the Sunnah in their lives, their families, and society as a whole is interpreted as a threat- a path to 'radicalism' for they cannot envision why any youth be they Muslim or other would forsake the temptations of the world for a life (and death) of submission to Allah (swt).

Allahu Alam.

Wa Alaikum wa Assalam

All that could have been said, has been explained by brother Abu H

May allah increase your hikmah, ameen.

[Kal-El]

So in other words being a radical is being a muslim.

'Radicalism' is a political orientation of those who favour revolutionary change in government and society; in this context Muslims who want change by using unlawful methods i.e. terrorism, what could drive a couple of brothers to try and hit into an airport using a 4x4 packed with petrol.

But I understand what you're saying. Despite these methods - alot of these brothers, regardless of their sincere intent or what inspired them, are part of a global struggle against injustice to Muslims. What causes division when discussing this subject is 'motive' versus 'methodology' and if a motive to do right can be over-ruled or criticised if using immoral methods.

Another point a brother above bought up is simply the mis-use of the term towards Muslims in general. So it's come to have a different meaning to the ordinary Muslim than it has to a journalist for example which causes confusion in the illusion of disagreements between Muslims and the West.

[RashidD]

I beg to differ, this thread has no goodness or benefit in it.

All this kaafir labels makes my stomach turn, i feel like i'm on a kaafir forum like cnn or something, if you want to use kufr labels then use it when talking about wordly stuff, not when it has anything to do with islam, i'm tired of all this terrorist radical islamist extremist nonsense, if you're referring to a muslim then use the terms the shariah uses, not what some brainless kaafir made up.

I said discussion, not "goodness" or "benefit". I too last night thought of asking to define radicalism or what was meant by radical - because obviously as you know then we share similar ideas.

Salman hasn't still defined "radical" and whether it's positive or negative. Astaghfirullah, but i've changed my mind and agree with you somewhat.

[Umm_Hanzalah]

Look it up in a dictionary.

In chemistry, radicals (often referred to as free radicals) are atomic or molecular species with unpaired electrons on an otherwise open shell configuration. These unpaired electrons are usually highly reactive, so radicals are likely to take part in chemical reactions. ...

I think the world is radical too. :coolbro:

[miss-islamic]

Being in denial and playing around with words isn’t going to get us anywhere. Every day people all over the world (the majority of them Muslims) are being blown up by “religious“ Muslim (usually youth, of course) who thinks by blowing up themselves and them they are going to heaven. They are religions Muslim. Their fault is in that they hate their enemies more than they love Allah (swt). To answer the poll question — it’s a little of all the options mentioned. Poverty, alienation, and culture are also factors.

[fisabilllillah]

Being in denial and playing around with words isn’t going to get us anywhere. Every day people all over the world (the majority of them Muslims) are being blown up by “religious“ Muslim (usually youth, of course) who thinks by blowing up themselves and them they are going to heaven. They are religions Muslim. Their fault is in that they hate their enemies more than they love Allah (swt). To answer the poll question — it’s a little of all the options mentioned. Poverty, alienation, and culture are also factors.

I think definition has everything to do with it, who defines it, who its used against.....its too dangerous to ignore this definition....and it is a term so often used in the discourses of west. ....how radicalised were the innocent young men in forrest gate? or the countless others that had been harassed and detained just beacuse they have beards and look practising? because the media hype all pointed out to their so called 'radicalisation' ......a sister with niqaab or bro with beard is considered as 'radical' or ' fanatic' ..a muslim who protests passionately about the illegal war in iraq and the occupation in Palestine is considered radical....a muslim who is upset over the cartoons against the Prophet saw... so we use this term to line them next to terrorists?..the prob with this term is that it is used to vaguely and as a result it allows the power systems to abuse the images of practising Muslim and associate them with terrorists.........its a term which works in the intersts of those who have engineered the war against terrorism...it shows that power systems need to survive by shaping terms which confuse people, which create a distinction between us and them...'either u r with us or not'...this whole radicalistion is used to isolate Muslims from their identity and force them into dropping their islamic identityand their cause.. all part of the process of assimilation and cultural hegemony...

[Islamiyyah]

This is a worthless thread. Radicalising the youth? Or serving Allah aza wa jaal? Simply rediculous.

[Colorado_Muslim]

thanks Salman Sahib. Tumne acha keya hai.

[LyricalEnigma]

First and foremost, don't use the individual LyricalTerrorist as an example

Secondly, It is unfair to blame mosques and Imams

If anything it comes down to the individual themselves and their state of mind

One can easily avoid being something they're not
But wake-up calls are needed - one can easily keep away from the wrong path but a path needs to be paved

Unfortunately, some people have the wrong interpretation of Islam - they take a quote from the Qur'ân and make their own meaning out of it without reading Tafsir

Its the individual - not anyone else!

I voted for CRIMINALISATION - not that i'm saying its 'RADICALISING THE YOUTH'
But rather its dum laws and made-up, twisted and distorted and fabricated accusations are angering the muslims if anything!

[in_exile]

before you carry on the question is what is a radical should be answered

[qalandarbaba97]

Imams and Mosques:
Our Beloved Prophet PBUH said that a time will come when our enemy will stop us from performing prayers. Only recently, the media has started talking about the mosques. I can safely guess that they are creating confusion and division (as a pretext) and will actually start banning mosques round the globe. And, they always do such nefarious actions in little steps to avoid suspicion that there's a pattern to those actions.

[Abu Mus'ab]

before you carry on the question is what is a radical should be answered
I asked that too and i'm still waiting for an answer.

[Abd ul-Muntaqim]

Where is the 'me' option?

[AbuMubarak]

all of them plus knowledge of islam, seera and jihad and an inbred pride of wanting to see islam as COOL AND STRONG

[AbuMubarak]

and most of all

a desire to please Allah, desiring jannah and leaving off dunya

[Kareem]

I dislike how the word radical has a negative connotation. Is it not radical to destroy entire countries? Or to have used a nuclear bomb? How is attempting to repel invaders, or even simply declare yourself Muslim radical compared to that...