Hitting your child

[Kubs]

I was on my way home from art course...and I came across a mother with two kids. The children were crying and instead of consoling them or putting the dummy back into their mouths, the mother would shout, curse and hit the kids. I was shocked and couldn't believe my eyes. Is this how we discipline our kids? I just can't understand how a mother could hit and abuse her own flesh and blood? :(

Discipline is essential. True. But hitting a child is hardly the most productive form of teaching right from wrong. It does not correct the child’s thoughts on what he did wrong. It teaches your child that violence is the answer. Hitting a defenceless child, especially if he/she is really small.... is nothing more than bullying. Shouldn't we teach our children good values without resorting to violence?

I don't think there is any harm in a swift slap to the back of the hand if your child is very out of line….but a kick…a slap in the face? An absolute no no. :rubeyes:

Did the Prophet Muhammad ever hit his children? As far as I'm aware, he didn't.

So my question is…if you had children, would your idea of disciplining the kids mean you’d have to hit them? Or would you resort to other methods? If so, what are they?

[.: Anna :.]

I don't want to hit them.
If the kid had a dummy aren't they too young to be hit and shouted at :S
There are alot of other methods and its better to give a full try to all of those first before u make it the habit just to smack them everytime imo

[Kubs]

I don't want to hit them.
If the kid had a dummy aren't they too young to be hit and shouted at :S
There are alot of other methods and its better to give a full try to all of those first before u make it the habit just to smack them everytime imo

Strangely enough, the kid was a little old to be given a dummy. He looked 4ish. :eek3:

[Ibn Sina]

Every kid is different, for some you'll have to discipline by smacking and some you don't .... thats my theory :coolbro:

[Cartman]

depends on how old they are, you cant hit a child that is too young, because they wont know the difference regardless.

But once they start to get to around 5, a little reinforcement is necessary, though no whuppings.

after 8 or 9, theyre fair game :torture: :D

[GuCcI]

u shouldnt hit kids under 5 or 6 cuz theyre still kinda fragile and they dont know any better :o they live in their own little bubble :love:

[Got Milk]

No just raising your voice should scare them or raising your hand

[muhammed_1428]

Worst I got was a smack on the thigh or bottom or having my ear pulled when I got in trouble - hardly ever to the face or head (actually my elder bro and I used to fight quite a lot lol I guess you could consider discipline to a certain extent)

I think hitting MAY be necessary to get them to stop doing something - but Insha'allah one has to be as patient as they possible can. I agree that it may teach them to more readily hit things or turn to violence when they get older - however, this isn't always the case...

I think I'd only ever do it but very very rarely as a way of showing I'm TRULY upset at what they've done if it ever got to that point... But Insha'allah I wouldn't want to make it regular or as a way of getting my anger out...

[1 Level]

there are plenty of more effective ways to show a child when they are in the wrong than to hit them,hitting them is wrong it doesnt always have the desired effect yes a child should have some fear but not through hitting.

[Syrian714]

Let me just say this.

By the time I was 3 years old I never threw a tantrum in public or in private. Once I was 5, I was preparing the dinner table regularly for my parents' guests while their own children ran around noisily and I never spoke unless spoken to in the company of adults. I never questioned my parents when they told me to do something, I simply did it. My brother was this way too, and my parents constantly received compliments on how well-behaved their children were.

How did my parents accomplish this? With a hard hand and a swift belt. That's it. I firmly believe that no amount of yelling or reasoning with me at that age could have made me such a good child, because I just didn't have the mental capacity to understand anything else and it would've just frustrated everyone involved.

I think parents nowadays expect too much out of their children. They expect their children to be good and well-behaved without any sort of physical punishment involved, and I'm sorry but for most children it just doesn't work that way. Kids are like animals and we have to shape them into adults, if we just let them run wild then they will remain animals and never learn any values.

[~Unity~]

Depends how old they are and it depends what they have done.

[beamz]

If the child is below 7 i think hitting is not the right thing to do, but over 7 years there will come a time when you need be strict and set boundries

[Saudi Prince]

It all depends on how you bring them up right from the beginning!

A mother can warn her children with a red card! And can compliment them with a green one!

[muhammed_1428]

A good friend of mine told me when he was young, and their dad took them to 'dhikr sessions' (He is Sufi), their mum would ask the dad to compile 'behaviour reviews' lol, (no joke!). When they got home their mum would ask how were they and if bad then they were grounded - no tv, no outside, no sweets, only water, no games, etc, etc. It got to the point where the kids would be crying on the way back home saying "ah please baba dont tell mama how we were really, please tell her we were good" (cos' rather than joining in the dhikr they were just running around playing had or catch!)

I think they kinda got the message after a while and started being good in the masjid!

But yeh lol, 'performance reviews' as it were probably arent a bad idea :p

[Sulaiman Harun]

:start:

:salams

No just raising your voice should scare them or raising your hand

I remember once standing right in front of my around 1.5 year cousin. He looked up as if he was looking at the sky and then he started crying!

[Loobna]

Let me just say this.

By the time I was 3 years old I never threw a tantrum in public or in private. Once I was 5, I was preparing the dinner table regularly for my parents' guests while their own children ran around noisily and I never spoke unless spoken to in the company of adults. I never questioned my parents when they told me to do something, I simply did it. My brother was this way too, and my parents constantly received compliments on how well-behaved their children were.

How did my parents accomplish this? With a hard hand and a swift belt. That's it. I firmly believe that no amount of yelling or reasoning with me at that age could have made me such a good child, because I just didn't have the mental capacity to understand anything else and it would've just frustrated everyone involved.

I think parents nowadays expect too much out of their children. They expect their children to be good and well-behaved without any sort of physical punishment involved, and I'm sorry but for most children it just doesn't work that way. Kids are like animals and we have to shape them into adults, if we just let them run wild then they will remain animals and never learn any values.


hmmm...that seems a bit harsh to me :S Kids are not like animals...yes they need to be taught values but I dont think I could do it in that way to my child, or any child for that matter.

There's always a nice way to go about doing things - so why not opt for that? In the long term it'll be of benefit because the kid will respect you not out of fear but because they actually understand that what you're saying is right and why its right.

[Syrian714]

hmmm...that seems a bit harsh to me :S Kids are not like animals...yes they need to be taught values but I dont think I could do it in that way to my child, or any child for that matter.

There's always a nice way to go about doing things - so why not opt for that? In the long term it'll be of benefit because the kid will respect you not out of fear but because they actually understand that what you're saying is right and why its right.

Well, I'm talking mainly about very young children who are unable to understand reasoning and won't be able to sit still for 10 minutes (much less actually pay attention to you or grasp what you are saying) while you try to explain to them why this way is the right way, etc. Their minds operate on a very simple level: They know that they aren't getting what they want, and all they care about is trying to get around that until you show them they simply can't.

When children get older, however, I definitely think you can begin teaching them proper values without employing such harsh disciplinary techniques.

[muslima_89]

kubs i know what you will do.. ;)

[Kubs]

kubs i know what you will do.. ;)

@)

[Loobna]

Well, I'm talking mainly about very young children who are unable to understand reasoning and won't be able to sit still for 10 minutes (much less actually pay attention to you or grasp what you are saying) while you try to explain to them why this way is the right way, etc. Their minds operate on a very simple level: They know that they aren't getting what they want, and all they care about is trying to get around that until you show them they simply can't.

When children get older, however, I definitely think you can begin teaching them proper values without employing such harsh disciplinary techniques.

They can understand reasoning though - even if they are very young. If you make the situation engaging enough for them, they will listen. Its up to the adult to find ways to do that though - if they cant then they're going to have to resort to the only way they know how.

I think we assume small child = stupid, but forget one major point - small child = huge ablilty to learn.

[Aboo Uthmaan]

Below is a very interesting discussion on the subject of hitting children, I do not mean the ruling the Shaykh gave only, but also the manner in which he deduced the ruling.

Hitting Children
By Shaykh Muhammad Nasir-ud-Deen al-Albaanee

Question:

The teacher may sometimes turn to hitting in order to discipline his student. Firstly, is it permissible to hit the student? Secondly, is it permissible to hit him in the face?

Answer:

As far as hitting in the face, this is not permissible due to the statement of the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam): “Do not hit the face and do not disfigure.” Regarding the second part, is it permissible to hit the student in general as a means of discipline; the answer must make mention of the statement of the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam): “Command your children to pray when they reach the age of seven and hit them if they leave it off when they reach the age of ten and separate them from each other in the beds.”

In this hadeeth is a proof that for the student, rather the child, whether he is a student or not, it is not permissible for the one in charge of him to hit him due to his deficiency in obeying the commands until he reaches the age of ten. Command your children to pray when they reach the age of seven and hit them if they leave it off when they reach the age of ten and separate them from each other in the beds. Without a doubt, the Hukm (ruling) or Ahimiyah (importance) of whatever knowledge any teacher wants to present to his students will not be equal to the importance of prayer. Therefore, if the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) himself prohibits the father from hitting his child due to not praying, until he reaches the age of ten, then with all the more reason, it is not permissible for other than the father (from those in charge) to hit the children for something other than leaving off the Salaah (prayer) until he reaches the age of ten.

Thus, it is not permissible for the teacher to hit the child even if he did not obey him regarding the Salaah. What else exists from the other affairs that are as important as the Salaah? In this connection, I would like to also add that the age of puberty for girls and boys differs tremendously from country to country. I know that in general, in countries of warm climate, the hormones may mature at a faster rate; thus the age of takleef (duty and obligation to observe precepts of religion) would be reached at an earlier age than it would in a colder climate. Then this rule should not be taken in a general way but rather each country should study the children or it should be done in a more detailed way. For example one would find out whether this particular child reached the age of puberty or is he still in childhood? So whatever seems to predominate from this study, the hukm (ruling) would be decided.

Question:

With regards to hitting, if the child had bad banners...

Shaykh al-Albaanee began saying:

There is no hitting, no hitting at all. Rather there is directing, advising and speech. Sometimes words have a greater affect on people than hitting. In addition, hitting with some people does not help at all, rather it makes them continue on what their upon more and more. What is important is that the best of all guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam). Thus, the child is not to be hit so long that he did not reach the age of puberty.

On this note, I understand from the gradual teaching of the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) that was previously mentioned in the hadeeth: “Command your children to pray” to the end of the hadeeth, I understand from this hadeeth that it is wrong what I see take place with many fathers. He commands his child to pray before reaching the age of seven. This is opposition to the commandment of the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam): “Command your children to pray when they reach the age of seven.” That is why it is not appropriate for the Muslim to put the commandment in effect before what the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) defined initially. It is ok for the father to permit his child to come along with him to pray with him in the Masjid. But as far as him telling him: “Come here, get up, go make wudoo’ and pray” and the child has not yet reached the age of seven, this is opposition to this hadeeth, so I just wanted to remind you all of that.

Question:

Shaykh, regarding hitting, sometimes you find students leave their houses and have no manners, even good advice does not benefit them, so does hitting them fall into necessity?

Shaykh al-Albaanee replied:

There is no necessity, where is the necessity here. Can you comprehend that hitting would benefit when the One who created him said, do not hit him until he reaches the age of seven.

[dhakiyya]

you don't need to hit kids, you need to be consistent. Young kids need rules from as soon as they learn to crawl, but the rules need to be very simple and the consequences for disobeying need to be short and immediate. There are ways to hit a child without doing any physical damage, and I was hit as a child with no such damage, however as a teenager I was too quick to use my fists as a way to resolve disputes. I had learned from a young age.... step out of line *whack* .... it was quite ingrained. So for that reason I think non hitting punishments are better, like time out or naughty step/chair.

However, ANY punishment MUST be immediate AND consistent if it is to work. This goes for hitting or for naughty step type punishments. I have seen countless examples where hitting a child does not work, and where naughty step punishments do not work, because the parent is not consistent. If the child does something naughty and is not punished, then another time they do the same thing and are punished, they don't see it as a consequence of being naughty, but as something mummy/daddy did because they're in a bad mood or because mummy/daddy doesn't like them any more. They learn to push the boundaries rather than to obey mum and dad. When discipline is consistent - i.e. every time they break the rules they get the same short immediate punishment - they will do as they're told and not break the rules. The punishments can fit the crime if you want (provided they are immediate and consistent) e.g. crayonning on the wall = crayons being taken away for a short time. (for kids under 3 yrs old just taking a toy they want to play with away for five minutes is a big deal for them!) - or always the same punishment, e.g. a smack on the bottom, a short time on the naughty step (i.e. in isolation away from their toys, brothers and sisters etc)

If the punishment is not immediate, the child will not remember what rule they broke and not understand why they were punished. You should also tell the child why they are being punished. E.g. for disobedience, take them to the naughty step and say "mummy said NO!" or for hitting another child take them to the naughty step and say "you DON'T hit people!" (another reason why physical punishment is not as good cause you can't say to a child don't hit people and then hit them! thats the ultimate in mixed messages!) - the explanation should be as simple as possible - so they clearly understand what they did that was wrong. For older children you can go into explanations about why you don't hit people, must obey mummy etc. but not for a two year old!

If punishments are not done consistently and properly, they become cruelty. The child doesn't understand why they are being punished, does not learn to be good, and associates the punishment with mummy not approving of them. Also, when punishments don't work, parents tend to make them harsher to try and make them work, because they don't understand that the problem is a lack of consistency. So a smack becomes a beating or being it with an object, or a time out type punishment becomes being locked in a room alone for half an hour. Both of these are very bad situations that most people would consider as child abuse. So parents need to ensure that whatever punishment they do, that its short, immediate and totally consistent. If you get it right, you don't need to keep on punishing the child, it becomes an occasional thing as the child will behave well most of the time, and just a reminder of the consequences is enough to make them obey or stop doing something naughty, because they know that if mummy/daddy says something, mummy/daddy means it.

[GuCcI]

time outs should work but explained why it's done so they know the consequences for bad behaviour.


i dont agree with the belt method of discipline :p

[sis_niqabi]

Salam

it depends on the child. some children will listen. some children need to be shouted at to listen. and others need a smack on the hand or the behind.

i work with nursery children. and honestly some of those children need a good beaten.

i see nothing wrong with disciplining a child with a belt.

in my opinion the children act the way they do now because people stop spanking their kids. parents nowadays are living by these hippy ideas on how to raise kids. there is even a hadith about how one of the signs of day judgment is that children will run their parents. and you see it now.

my parents spanked me. honestly it did me no harm. in school the teachers always use to say i was well mannered child and respectful. and i didn't even get that many spankings as a child. my mother would only hit me with the belt when it was something serious.

as you see most of the kids today are not respectful to their parents and rude to their elders. nowadays you hear so many kids telling their parents "no" or "i don't want to".

if people choose not to spank their kids then that's fine. i think when i have kids i won't spank them. if it's not needed. but people shouldn't think that spanking is useless.

[Aboo Uthmaan]

Salam

it depends on the child. some children will listen. some children need to be shouted at to listen. and others need a smack on the hand or the behind.

i work with nursery children. and honestly some of those children need a good beaten.

i see nothing wrong with disciplining a child with a belt.
Shocking, just hope my child does not attend the nursery you teach at.

[dhakiyya]

i see nothing wrong with disciplining a child with a belt.

in my opinion the children act the way they do now because people stop spanking their kids. parents nowadays are living by these hippy ideas on how to raise kids. there is even a hadith about how one of the signs of day judgment is that children will run their parents. and you see it now.


so how do you explain the large numbers of kids who are hit regularly by their parents but still don't behave? Cause most really naughty kids I've known were hit by their parents regularly - it just didn't work. In fact some of the most ill mannered and badly behaved kids I've known were ones that were regularly hit by their parents, including with objects and repeated beatings.

how do you explain kids that behave that are not hit? Its not simply personality because really naughty kids can be turned around and made to behave without being hit.

The fact is as I explained in my last post, the important thing is consistency. It does not matter what specific punishment you use, the punishment needs to be carried out immediately and consistently - i.e. every time the child misbehaves they get punished. There are other minor details to do with making the punishment age appropriate, with older kids the punishment can be less immediate because they will be able to remember what they did and understand why they are being punished.

So really I answered the question for you - the kids whose parents beat them and they are still very naughty and ill mannered - the reason is the punishment is not consistent. In my last post I also explained how lack of consistency in punishing children can lead to the punishment harming the child in a number of ways - whether the punishment involves hitting the child or not.

[GuCcI]

i see nothing wrong with disciplining a child with a belt.


dont be silly. there is something very wrong with being hit with a belt.

wen u hit with a belt i am very certain that it leaves a mark. "hitting with a belt" isnt really a HIT but its more of a WHIP. so in that sense its okay to WHIP a child? like this? :torture:

that's disgusting because whipping is like torture. whipping is often use TO torture. torturing a child?! ohhh myyyy godddd.... :nervous:

[GuCcI]

oh yeah like sis dhakaiyya said, consistency is key or else there serves no point and the kid wont get it.

u guys need to watch Super Nanny and how she straightens out the worst kids ever - with no hitting and her strategy is to be consistent with the *british accent* "naughty seat" :p

[sis_niqabi]

so how do you explain the large numbers of kids who are hit regularly by their parents but still don't behave? Cause most really naughty kids I've known were hit by their parents regularly - it just didn't work. In fact some of the most ill mannered and badly behaved kids I've known were ones that were regularly hit by their parents, including with objects and repeated beatings.

how do you explain kids that behave that are not hit? Its not simply personality because really naughty kids can be turned around and made to behave without being hit.

The fact is as I explained in my last post, the important thing is consistency. It does not matter what specific punishment you use, the punishment needs to be carried out immediately and consistently - i.e. every time the child misbehaves they get punished. There are other minor details to do with making the punishment age appropriate, with older kids the punishment can be less immediate because they will be able to remember what they did and understand why they are being punished.

So really I answered the question for you - the kids whose parents beat them and they are still very naughty and ill mannered - the reason is the punishment is not consistent. In my last post I also explained how lack of consistency in punishing children can lead to the punishment harming the child in a number of ways - whether the punishment involves hitting the child or not.

i didn't say all misbehaved children need to be beat. nor did i say every behaved child is beaten. every child is different. and in my experience the naughty children i know their parents do not beat. and the children very disrespectful to their elders.



dont be silly. there is something very wrong with being hit with a belt.

wen u hit with a belt i am very certain that it leaves a mark. "hitting with a belt" isnt really a HIT but its more of a WHIP. so in that sense its okay to WHIP a child? like this? :torture:

that's disgusting because whipping is like torture. whipping is often use TO torture. torturing a child?! ohhh myyyy godddd.... :nervous:

ukhti belts don't leave marks.

[dhakiyya]

i didn't say all misbehaved children need to be beat. nor did i say every behaved child is beaten. every child is different. and in my experience the naughty children i know their parents do not beat. and the children very disrespectful to their elders.


And I was pointing out that in my experience, plenty of naughty kids are hit at home and it doesn't work because the parents are not being consistent, those kids are disrespectful and just like the ones you describe.

Have you checked with every single parent of every naughty kid whether they hit the child or not? Or are you just assuming? I know of plenty of cases where the parents do hit the kids regularly and it has no affect on their behaviour whatsoever, other than the fact it makes them go round hitting other kids, or even start hitting their parents too in some cases. Why? Because of the lack of consistency. And its the same with parents who use other discipline methods but don't apply it consistently, and with parents that haven't a clue when it comes to discipline and don't apply any form of discipline. The key is consistency and it is vitally important that every parent and potential parent realises that. I'm not arguing with you for the sake of it, I really want you to understand what I'm saying because it is what makes the difference: consistency, not whether you smack or use whatever other punishment.

Children are not so greatly different in this respect - if they are disciplined consistently and properly they will be well behaved.

[Kubs]

i see nothing wrong with disciplining a child with a belt

I could never hit my child with a belt. That's awful. I don't care if it leaves a mark or not......no child deserves to be beaten that way. What kind of a mother would like to see their child in pain?

[sis_niqabi]

I could never hit my child with a belt. That's awful. I don't care if it leaves a mark or not......no child deserves to be beaten that way. What kind of a mother would like to see their child in pain?

ukhti i don't think any mother enjoys seeing their child in pain. but disciplining a child is important. you might follow believe in a different way of discipline but others believe in another.

obviously i wouldn't hit my 3 or 4 year old with a belt. but if a child is around 6ish or 7ish. i believe spanking the child will get the message across immediately.

people have been beating their children for centuries. and the children turned out OK.

just take a look at the children of the older generation what the current generation of children will turn out to be.

there is a generation of spoiled brats being raised at the moment.

fine khalaas you don't want to beat your child that's fine. but people are now going another step. some people are saying "don't say no to the child" "don't shout at the child" "don't tell the child what to do".

[Kubs]

ukhti i don't think any mother enjoys seeing their child in pain. but disciplining a child is important. you might follow believe in a different way of discipline but others believe in another.

obviously i wouldn't hit my 3 or 4 year old with a belt. but if a child is around 6ish or 7ish. i believe spanking the child will get the message across immediately.

people have been beating their children for centuries. and the children turned out OK.

just take a look at the children of the older generation what the current generation of children will turn out to be.

there is a generation of spoiled brats being raised at the moment.

fine khalaas you don't want to beat your child that's fine. but people are now going another step. some people are saying "don't say no to the child" "don't shout at the child" "don't tell the child what to do".

Hitting your child should always be the last resort. Using a belt on a 6 year old is terrible! It's a kid at the end of the day. If they make a mistake...you ground them and you explain clearly WHY what he did was wrong. You don't use the belt on the child.....otherwise he's going to grow up believing that violence is the only solution.

There are always other methods. You speak to them with a strict voice....you ground them....you take away their toys - and when they do something good, you reward them with treats.

I think parent child relationship is extremely important. I don't want my child to grow up being afraid of me. Teaching them good values from the very beginning is important. You teach them to treat elders with respect and accept when they are wrong.

If you continously beat the child...they will rebel...and if they dont, they will grow up afraid of their parents.

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) never beat his children. It is from his example, his wise words, his knowledge....that the children grew up to be fantastic people.

[dhakiyya]

fine but people are now going another step. some people are saying "don't say no to the child" "don't shout at the child" "don't tell the child what to do".

I agree this attitude is stupid and will result in disobedient kids that run wild. Kids need to get used to the word "no" as soon as they learn to crawl. My daughter understood the word no when she was eight months old mashaAllah, cause she learned to crawl when she was eight months old mashaAllah. "no" keeps kids safe, (the first rule I taught my daugher was "don't touch wires") - kids psychologically need rules and well defined boundaries in order to feel safe. As a teacher, some of the worst kids to deal with are the ones that never hear "no" at home, so they can't cope when they hear "no" in the classroom. :banghead: even worse when the parent is affronted that you tried to discipline their kid and complains to the school that you're picking on them or something. Then when their child fails to achieve because they constantly misbehave, its the schools fault :rolleyes:

As for shouting - a firm voice works better than a yell. It doesn't need to be particularly loud either, just needs to convey that you really mean what you say and you are cross with them. Parents who shreik and scream at their children uncontrollably - you'll find they're the same ones who don't punish consistently (or at all) - all they are saying to their kids is "I can't even control myself, nevermind control you" and the kids run rings around them.

[dhakiyya]

Hitting your child should always be the last resort.

There is no need to hit a child at all. However if you do use smacking as a punishment, it should be done consistently, which means not as a last resort, but after one firm warning (if they continue to misbehave after the warning) - if the child is still misbehaving after being punished several times within a short time (e.g. playing up constantly and punishments seem to have no effect), either the punishment is not working because the parent is doing something wrong. OR there is another problem in the child's life that needs to be resolved, e.g. the child is not getting any attention when they behave well, or there has been a recent trauma or upheval, in these cases, hitting the child will make things worse.

so just a note on positive attention - the best discipline strategy in the world will be undermined if you don't give your child attention when they are being good. Tonnes of praise for good behaviour, achievements (big and small) and also spend time talking to and playing with your children. They are good most of the time, even naughty children are good for a lot of the time - so recognise that!

[muhammed_1428]

My uncle used his belt on his kids (never in front of other family thought, we just sorta knew about it lol) - but he was pretty much the only person in the family who ever did so... Everyone advised him against it...

But tbh, his kids are pretty much in check most of the time, but at other times can be reeeaalllly naughty and get up to no good... So maybe the belt had the opposite effect who knows?

Hitting should be the last resort - of course Nebhi Muhammed SAW never hit his kids - and so in striving to be like him (SAW) we should take that example, but there are times when it has worked! (I mean hey worked on me to a certain extent :p I was still a fussy kid I can remember...)

But yeh - last resort for me :D (of course I won't be smiling that that when I do it :p )

[GuCcI]

ukhti belts don't leave marks.


omg sis if a slap can leave a mark... which it does cuz children's skin is so sensitive and soft a belt will surely leave the slightest mark. but whether it leaves a mark or not the point is hitting with a belt is like torture :eek:

[Loobna]

The fact is as I explained in my last post, the important thing is consistency.

Agree :up:

The only problems you get with this are actually nothing to do with the child at all - they're to do with the parents not knowing how or not being able/not having the patience to be consistent.

parenting doesnt sound easy :( ...but I like a challenge :D

[$HugoBoss$]

My uncle gives my little cousin hot spices to taste, you should see his facial expressions :rotfl:

[-Yassar]

As for shouting - a firm voice works better than a yell. It doesn't need to be particularly loud either, just needs to convey that you really mean what you say and you are cross with them. Parents who shreik and scream at their children uncontrollably - you'll find they're the same ones who don't punish consistently (or at all) - all they are saying to their kids is "I can't even control myself, nevermind control you" and the kids run rings around them.

yea that is so true, I witness it everyday...

[$HugoBoss$]

I would wrestle with them on the bed with pillows and blankets :D

[Treasured Soul]

Let me just say this.

By the time I was 3 years old I never threw a tantrum in public or in private. Once I was 5, I was preparing the dinner table regularly for my parents' guests while their own children ran around noisily and I never spoke unless spoken to in the company of adults. I never questioned my parents when they told me to do something, I simply did it. My brother was this way too, and my parents constantly received compliments on how well-behaved their children were.

How did my parents accomplish this? With a hard hand and a swift belt. That's it. I firmly believe that no amount of yelling or reasoning with me at that age could have made me such a good child, because I just didn't have the mental capacity to understand anything else and it would've just frustrated everyone involved.

I think parents nowadays expect too much out of their children. They expect their children to be good and well-behaved without any sort of physical punishment involved, and I'm sorry but for most children it just doesn't work that way. Kids are like animals and we have to shape them into adults, if we just let them run wild then they will remain animals and never learn any values.

wow ... i dont know what to say or where to begin. I think we have similar backgrounds.

earliest time i can remember being hit was when we went pakistan ... which was when i was 5. i cant remember being hit prior to that. and tbh, i think the more i was hit, the more reserved, withdrawn i became. and is probably the reason I'm a very quiet reserved person. Its something a parents loves .. quiet obedient children ... but as an adult, its not very nice. you start developing anti-social behaviour.

i was like you ... never questioned when i was told to do something. just did it ... was very quiet cuz my dad didnt like noise. but the funny thing is ... my dad never hit us ... his tone of voice was sufficient. from an early age i was hapy with keeping my dad happy rather than my mom. i guess cuz mom used to hit. But it wasnt her fault ... she had bipolar depression ... so im not really sure how to make of her hitting me.

But that was as a kid ... she stopped hitting as i got older. As a teenager ... i have to admit, i retaliated more with my mom ... and hardly spoke out to my dad ... i used to try my hardest to please him. but mom ... there was alot of anger towards her ... i think it went into my early twenties.

so you see, i dont think its wise to hit kids when they are small ... it only reflects in their personality and attitude when they grow up.

i work with nursery children. and honestly some of those children need a good beaten.

wow ... thats a bit shocking ... though you may feel those kids need a good beatin', lets hope you dont exercise it on other ppls kids, inshaAllah.

I remember the nursery my son went to ... there was a teacher who was smacking the kids there ... one of the moms made the head teacher place cctv cameras within the classroom ... mothers could go in anytime into the office and view what was happening in the classrooms ... technology :D

My uncle used his belt on his kids (never in front of other family thought, we just sorta knew about it lol) - but he was pretty much the only person in the family who ever did so... Everyone advised him against it...

But tbh, his kids are pretty much in check most of the time, but at other times can be reeeaalllly naughty and get up to no good... So maybe the belt had the opposite effect who knows?

lol ... i think it does have the opposite effect ... same goes for my sis kids ... my bro/law was very very strict with his kids. they have four kids mahsAllah ... and the eldest 2 ... though well behaved in front of ppl ... are usually the biggest trouble causers. the mischieve they get to behind their parents back is unbelieveable. I think my bro/law started catching on that his discipline was having the opposite effect, and so he wasnt as harsh with his third child .. and alhumdillah ... he does what he's told and gets on with his things ... he's hardly gets up to mischieve ... lets put it this way ... he can be trusted!

so ... its a very complex situation ...

Iv also noticed ... when i talk to my son in a calm soothing tone, he seems to listen more .. whereas when i shout ... he just shouts back or 'swtiches off'.

when ur mad or angry when they do something wrong .. punish them, be consistent ... but always talk about the right/wrong of the sitaution afterwards when they've had time to calm down too.

[Kubs]

Add some in their baby food everytime they misbehave :evilb:

Is that why you are brain damaged? You had hot spices in your baby food :D

[hanaa_al_muminah]

i wudnt hit my kids....i wud feel so guilty......

[sis_niqabi]

wow ... thats a bit shocking ... though you may feel those kids need a good beatin', lets hope you dont exercise it on other ppls kids, inshaAllah.

I remember the nursery my son went to ... there was a teacher who was smacking the kids there ... one of the moms made the head teacher place cctv cameras within the classroom ... mothers could go in anytime into the office and view what was happening in the classrooms ... technology :D



Oh no. i don't believe it's right to spank other people's kids. because it's up to the parents to discipline them. but i believe the parents could give their child a smack on the hand to get them to behave better.

[Dain Bramaged]

I think u have to discipline ur kids proper otherwise they will think its ok to do whatever they feel like...and plus if ur round ur neighbours house or neighbours are round urs, they would think the kid is such a brat and their obviously are gonna blame the parents :(

But for me it depends if it is a boy or a girl, bcos u do want a boy to become a man when he grows up not a mommas boy or a wuss lol I dont think u should hit girls bcos then she might grow up to be a bee-yaa....:rolleyes:

[fisabilllillah]

Let me just say this.

By the time I was 3 years old I never threw a tantrum in public or in private. Once I was 5, I was preparing the dinner table regularly for my parents' guests while their own children ran around noisily and I never spoke unless spoken to in the company of adults. I never questioned my parents when they told me to do something, I simply did it. My brother was this way too, and my parents constantly received compliments on how well-behaved their children were.

How did my parents accomplish this? With a hard hand and a swift belt. That's it. I firmly believe that no amount of yelling or reasoning with me at that age could have made me such a good child, because I just didn't have the mental capacity to understand anything else and it would've just frustrated everyone involved.



I think parents nowadays expect too much out of their children. They expect their children to be good and well-behaved without any sort of physical punishment involved, and I'm sorry but for most children it just doesn't work that way. Kids are like animals and we have to shape them into adults, if we just let them run wild then they will remain animals and never learn any values.

im very sorry sister :rubeyes: but i very much disagree and this sort of inappropriate form of discipline 'the hard hand or the swift belt' goes against the sunnah (audhobillah).The prophet saw use to treat children with mercy. If you want Allah's mercy, you have to be merciful to the creation, especially your own gawwwwwwwwwgeous kids. I :inlove: kids and anyone who does will take offense to this post!!!!!:badguy:


Children are not like little adults as they once thought back in the prehistoric days and neither are they 'animals' astaghfurillah. Even animals dont hit their children, allah :Swt: has spread compassion to all of his creation. Every child is born on the fitrah and it is our duty to teach them in the correct manner showing love and mercy. i know the effects of violence or intense hitting when i see kids who experience this from home and they bring some serious problems into the classroom, it makes me :( and very frustrated.. Children tend to have more severe psychological or behaviourial disorders when they face abuse, I would not call this form of hitting disciplne rather this is a form of child abuse. This is the 21st century. , I hope those days are over when children speak only when they are spoken to:(

If you want to know why children lack morals and discipline, it has nothing to do with how hard we should hit them rather it has alot to do with the nature of the enviroment and the lack of adult role models. I think the adults need to be punished beacuse they have failed their children....they are the ones who deserve capital punishment not the kids!!!!!!!

so lets bring it on..to all you bad parents out there........:torture:

[fisabilllillah]

i didn't say all misbehaved children need to be beat. nor did i say every behaved child is beaten. every child is different. and in my experience the naughty children i know their parents do not beat. and the children very disrespectful to their elders.





ukhti belts don't leave marks.


using belts is like for flogging:torture: (i wud imagine) and thats for fornicators not for children!

[Omar Mukhtar]

hitting and spanking are different. Hitting sort of denotes an out of control, angry action. Spanking can be used as a form of discipline, but it shouldn't be carried too far and should never get out of control. And it shouldn't be done for every little infraction, just the big ones.

[`asiya]

Below is a very interesting discussion on the subject of hitting children, I do not mean the ruling the Shaykh gave only, but also the manner in which he deduced the ruling.

Hitting Children
By Shaykh Muhammad Nasir-ud-Deen al-Albaanee

Question:

The teacher may sometimes turn to hitting in order to discipline his student. Firstly, is it permissible to hit the student? Secondly, is it permissible to hit him in the face?

Answer:

As far as hitting in the face, this is not permissible due to the statement of the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam): “Do not hit the face and do not disfigure.” Regarding the second part, is it permissible to hit the student in general as a means of discipline; the answer must make mention of the statement of the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam): “Command your children to pray when they reach the age of seven and hit them if they leave it off when they reach the age of ten and separate them from each other in the beds.”

In this hadeeth is a proof that for the student, rather the child, whether he is a student or not, it is not permissible for the one in charge of him to hit him due to his deficiency in obeying the commands until he reaches the age of ten. Command your children to pray when they reach the age of seven and hit them if they leave it off when they reach the age of ten and separate them from each other in the beds. Without a doubt, the Hukm (ruling) or Ahimiyah (importance) of whatever knowledge any teacher wants to present to his students will not be equal to the importance of prayer. Therefore, if the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) himself prohibits the father from hitting his child due to not praying, until he reaches the age of ten, then with all the more reason, it is not permissible for other than the father (from those in charge) to hit the children for something other than leaving off the Salaah (prayer) until he reaches the age of ten.

Thus, it is not permissible for the teacher to hit the child even if he did not obey him regarding the Salaah. What else exists from the other affairs that are as important as the Salaah? In this connection, I would like to also add that the age of puberty for girls and boys differs tremendously from country to country. I know that in general, in countries of warm climate, the hormones may mature at a faster rate; thus the age of takleef (duty and obligation to observe precepts of religion) would be reached at an earlier age than it would in a colder climate. Then this rule should not be taken in a general way but rather each country should study the children or it should be done in a more detailed way. For example one would find out whether this particular child reached the age of puberty or is he still in childhood? So whatever seems to predominate from this study, the hukm (ruling) would be decided.

Question:

With regards to hitting, if the child had bad banners...

Shaykh al-Albaanee began saying:

There is no hitting, no hitting at all. Rather there is directing, advising and speech. Sometimes words have a greater affect on people than hitting. In addition, hitting with some people does not help at all, rather it makes them continue on what their upon more and more. What is important is that the best of all guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam). Thus, the child is not to be hit so long that he did not reach the age of puberty.

On this note, I understand from the gradual teaching of the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) that was previously mentioned in the hadeeth: “Command your children to pray” to the end of the hadeeth, I understand from this hadeeth that it is wrong what I see take place with many fathers. He commands his child to pray before reaching the age of seven. This is opposition to the commandment of the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam): “Command your children to pray when they reach the age of seven.” That is why it is not appropriate for the Muslim to put the commandment in effect before what the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) defined initially. It is ok for the father to permit his child to come along with him to pray with him in the Masjid. But as far as him telling him: “Come here, get up, go make wudoo’ and pray” and the child has not yet reached the age of seven, this is opposition to this hadeeth, so I just wanted to remind you all of that.

Question:

Shaykh, regarding hitting, sometimes you find students leave their houses and have no manners, even good advice does not benefit them, so does hitting them fall into necessity?

Shaykh al-Albaanee replied:

There is no necessity, where is the necessity here. Can you comprehend that hitting would benefit when the One who created him said, do not hit him until he reaches the age of seven.

:jkk: masha Allah, so in Islam we cannot hit any of our children under this age and then u can only hit them for refusing to pray :up: masha Allah need to teach this hadith and its explanation in masjids up and down the land if the abuse and beatings of children we read about from these so called "mulanas" is anything to go by. makes perfect sense to me as to why so many born muslims arent practising islam if severe beatings is all they associate with islamic classes.

[Asma_Here]

I feel so sad to have read this.... ...... No .. It's very wrong...


My methods , INSHAA ALLAH would be... talking to them... explaining things to them... being their friend...

[dhakiyya]

I feel so sad to have read this.... ...... No .. It's very wrong...


My methods , INSHAA ALLAH would be... talking to them... explaining things to them... being their friend...

These things on their own don't make kids behave. There needs to be some form of fair, consistent discipline. As I said in my earlier posts, there is no need for it to involve hitting, there are effective non violent ways to discipline children. The key is consistency.

Being a friend to your children is fine when you are playing with them, giving them advice and so on - but when they are naughty you need to have the authority of a parent and be able to put your foot down. Parents that can't/won't/don't have the confidence to do that have kids that seriously misbehave.

As for explaining, this is necessary for older children - whether you are warning them about their behaviour or punishing them - or simply advising them. For toddlers its pointless. Trying to explain to a toddler that they shouldn't do something is seen by the toddler as "I did x then mummy spent five minutes talking to me :D lots of attention! I'll do x again!" and they dont' have the comprehension skills to take in what you are saying. Toddlers do need to know the rules and be told what they are being punished for, but the sentences need to be as short as possilbe, e.g. "mummy said NO!" "Don't hit people" "Don't touch mummy's cup" etc

[ummbilal]

Strangely enough, the kid was a little old to be given a dummy. He looked 4ish. :eek3:

was the mother a chav?

[Kubs]

was the mother a chav?

I think :eek3:

[Mujaheedah]

I've had freinds that have grown up by loving parents, and when they did something wrong they were hit not assaulted but hit. And I have had freinds who grew up with loving parents and they were talked to instead of being hit. I am talking about when they were small here younger than 15. The sad thing is the latter was worse off in terms of behavior, hiding stuff from their parents and so on.

[GuCcI]

omg i would sooo hit my kid if need be... but not with a belt... and not to really hurt them :( and not wen theyre too small cuz they dont understand, and not hard at all - just so they learn... :scratch:

[nakx]

:lailah:there is a big difference between hitting and tapping....

you can tap them on the hand...but come on hitting!! what will that solve??
i was never hit by my parents. i believe if you teach your child disaplin then there would be no need...if u are ferm from the beginning and punish them in other ways...

i see everyday like my cousin brother he has 2 young boys 2 and 4 yrs old...they have been taught no disaplin.....all they say is you watch what i do to u if u do that...and neva follow it up!!
or
they say nooooooooooo dont do that...but wont get up to stop the child

if u as a parent are no lazy then your child will learn quick u cant expect ur child to learn if u arent their beside them guiding them..after all they learn from u

take their toys away..make a naughty corner...stop sweets for a few days..no tv or somthing ...the point will get across much more effective
i think neway

[summer786]

ok obviously people on this thread arent from india/pak :rolleyes: nothing wrong with a few chaperrs

[Muujahid]

i've only beat my 7yr old once and that was because he disrespected his mother and yes i took a belt to his hinney.

their is nothing wrong w/ behind whoppings, heck i had tons of them and because i did, i know how to treat women, respect my elders, think w/ commen sense, and i'm an honorable man of society thats productive.

personally more parents should light up their kids behinds, all these school shooting, fights, kids bringing guns to school etc, please a good old fashion whoppin is just what they need.

these are our kids and u have to get in their worlds good and young so when they hit 15/16 yrs old, the know better than to even think about it.

so yes, i spend plenty of time w/ my boys teaching them and showing them how to be good men, but if they ever step out of line w/ me or their mother than they know whats coming and no i dont feel bad about it. my boys will not be among kids walking around today using foul language and being disrespectful in the presence of their elders.

masha allah, every parents is different and my father had no problem beating my behind. i've been slapped by umme and whopped by abby and i'm fine, i hated them then but i love them now for it, i'm a good man because of it. i've never smoked, drank, no tattoos and partly because i'm still a lil scared of my father, so masha allah

[al-ghazalli]

These things on their own don't make kids behave. There needs to be some form of fair, consistent discipline. As I said in my earlier posts, there is no need for it to involve hitting, there are effective non violent ways to discipline children. The key is consistency.

mashallah good advice :up:

[RashidD]

Parents should endeavour to teach the children about aakhira and build into them a fear of disobediance to their Creator. The rest, will InshaALLAH follow.

[miss-islamic]

Yelling and hitting children are one of the things that everybody does but if done in public it is the most horrible thing in the world. It just so happens that kids are usually smart and pick up on this and so act extra bratty when they are in public.

[risalatul_islam]

:salams

I am defiantly against hitting.

[DALEHYR]

I think that hitting children in moderation is ok, as long as it is just a deterrent / punishment. Anything more than that is usually cruel... :)

[bintumar]

well, I guess knowledge of childcare is our lost property. I mean we talk about hitting them despite the fact that it wasn't the practice of the Prophet(s.a.w). I believed in occasional light beating until I started teaching at a school, the first of its kind, in my place. You wouldn't believe most of our trainers were non muslim, yet the ways they taught us to deal with children are very islamic. Ther are many steps but the most important was being conversant with age appropriate behaviour and teaching positive things as opposed to waiting for bad behaviour and then correcting it.
Hitting has been described as an adult having a tantrum(cos he has no idea what to do next).I t's incredible how being not allowed to hit children made us come up with creative ways of dealing with problems in a far better way, because we are teaching the children how their actions affect others and how to deal with situations.As an Islamic school, we are finding ways to raise them up as muslims who WANT to obey Allah's rule in order to reach jannah(we seek Allah's help and guidance always).Alhamdulillah we are getting positive feedback from parents who thought we were going to turn their children into spoilt brats!

[Kasim2k7]

I guess its all about raising them up good. If you dont then you gotta hit them but why dont you work from the start and raise them good and be or create a friendly environment.

[Cristiana]

I was on my way home from art course...and I came across a mother with two kids. The children were crying and instead of consoling them or putting the dummy back into their mouths, the mother would shout, curse and hit the kids. I was shocked and couldn't believe my eyes. Is this how we discipline our kids? I just can't understand how a mother could hit and abuse her own flesh and blood? :(

Discipline is essential. True. But hitting a child is hardly the most productive form of teaching right from wrong. It does not correct the child’s thoughts on what he did wrong. It teaches your child that violence is the answer. Hitting a defenceless child, especially if he/she is really small.... is nothing more than bullying. Shouldn't we teach our children good values without resorting to violence?

I don't think there is any harm in a swift slap to the back of the hand if your child is very out of line….but a kick…a slap in the face? An absolute no no. :rubeyes:

Did the Prophet Muhammad ever hit his children? As far as I'm aware, he didn't.

So my question is…if you had children, would your idea of disciplining the kids mean you’d have to hit them? Or would you resort to other methods? If so, what are they?

Children can be a real challenge sometimes, however, I find it appalling when I see parents hitting them or screaming in their face on top of their lungs to "shut the **** up! "... what a disgrace!

Having said that, I STRONGLY believe in a slap on the hands or on the bottom when it's deserved. This is not to create a "reign of terror"...However, while a kid must be explained what he does wrong and why he shouldn't do this or that, it is beyond his grasp just WHY he must listen to you and he will at times try to defy your authority...and words just won't cut it.

This is light-years from the awful example Kubs described, because you don't hit your child in frustration, you don't release your anger in that moment and especially you DONT' HURT the child. He will cry because of the "tone" of it and because who likes being scolded??? but it WILL NOT scar the kids for life.

Back home, my generation (whose parents believed in a slap here and there) turned out much better than the later ones, whose parents want to be friends of their children and want to be liberal and "cool":smack:and their kids spit at them.

I'll be Yusef's "friend" when he's a grownup insha'Allah, for now I am his mother:up:

[Cristiana]

Another thing, I don't know whether this has been mentioned above (I haven't read the whole thing) but beating is NOT unislamic as such:

Abu Dawud, Book 2, Number 0495:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Command your children to pray when they become seven years old, and beat them for it (prayer) when they become ten years old; and arrange their beds (to sleep) separately.

The Prophet SAWS didn't say "...and convince them to pray when they are 10" or "...and hope the years of your good teaching will make them decide to pray at 10".

[`asiya]

Another thing, I don't know whether this has been mentioned above (I haven't read the whole thing) but beating is NOT unislamic as such:

Abu Dawud, Book 2, Number 0495:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Command your children to pray when they become seven years old, and beat them for it (prayer) when they become ten years old; and arrange their beds (to sleep) separately.

The Prophet SAWS didn't say "...and convince them to pray when they are 10" or "...and hope the years of your good teaching will make them decide to pray at 10".

its mentioned here ukhti alhamdulillah

Below is a very interesting discussion on the subject of hitting children, I do not mean the ruling the Shaykh gave only, but also the manner in which he deduced the ruling.

Hitting Children
By Shaykh Muhammad Nasir-ud-Deen al-Albaanee

Question:

The teacher may sometimes turn to hitting in order to discipline his student. Firstly, is it permissible to hit the student? Secondly, is it permissible to hit him in the face?

Answer:

As far as hitting in the face, this is not permissible due to the statement of the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam): “Do not hit the face and do not disfigure.” Regarding the second part, is it permissible to hit the student in general as a means of discipline; the answer must make mention of the statement of the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam): “Command your children to pray when they reach the age of seven and hit them if they leave it off when they reach the age of ten and separate them from each other in the beds.”

In this hadeeth is a proof that for the student, rather the child, whether he is a student or not, it is not permissible for the one in charge of him to hit him due to his deficiency in obeying the commands until he reaches the age of ten. Command your children to pray when they reach the age of seven and hit them if they leave it off when they reach the age of ten and separate them from each other in the beds. Without a doubt, the Hukm (ruling) or Ahimiyah (importance) of whatever knowledge any teacher wants to present to his students will not be equal to the importance of prayer. Therefore, if the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) himself prohibits the father from hitting his child due to not praying, until he reaches the age of ten, then with all the more reason, it is not permissible for other than the father (from those in charge) to hit the children for something other than leaving off the Salaah (prayer) until he reaches the age of ten.

Thus, it is not permissible for the teacher to hit the child even if he did not obey him regarding the Salaah. What else exists from the other affairs that are as important as the Salaah? In this connection, I would like to also add that the age of puberty for girls and boys differs tremendously from country to country. I know that in general, in countries of warm climate, the hormones may mature at a faster rate; thus the age of takleef (duty and obligation to observe precepts of religion) would be reached at an earlier age than it would in a colder climate. Then this rule should not be taken in a general way but rather each country should study the children or it should be done in a more detailed way. For example one would find out whether this particular child reached the age of puberty or is he still in childhood? So whatever seems to predominate from this study, the hukm (ruling) would be decided.

Question:

With regards to hitting, if the child had bad banners...

Shaykh al-Albaanee began saying:

There is no hitting, no hitting at all. Rather there is directing, advising and speech. Sometimes words have a greater affect on people than hitting. In addition, hitting with some people does not help at all, rather it makes them continue on what their upon more and more. What is important is that the best of all guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam). Thus, the child is not to be hit so long that he did not reach the age of puberty.

On this note, I understand from the gradual teaching of the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) that was previously mentioned in the hadeeth: “Command your children to pray” to the end of the hadeeth, I understand from this hadeeth that it is wrong what I see take place with many fathers. He commands his child to pray before reaching the age of seven. This is opposition to the commandment of the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam): “Command your children to pray when they reach the age of seven.” That is why it is not appropriate for the Muslim to put the commandment in effect before what the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) defined initially. It is ok for the father to permit his child to come along with him to pray with him in the Masjid. But as far as him telling him: “Come here, get up, go make wudoo’ and pray” and the child has not yet reached the age of seven, this is opposition to this hadeeth, so I just wanted to remind you all of that.

Question:

Shaykh, regarding hitting, sometimes you find students leave their houses and have no manners, even good advice does not benefit them, so does hitting them fall into necessity?

Shaykh al-Albaanee replied:

There is no necessity, where is the necessity here. Can you comprehend that hitting would benefit when the One who created him said, do not hit him until he reaches the age of seven.

[al-ghazalli]

Jazkallah sister Asiya that was an excellent post. Also Cristiana the hadith you mentioned has been translated horribly no fault of your own of course.

One of the biggest mistakes Islamic publishers have made is translating books of hadith in the English language. This has made way for some to become self proclaimed Scholar by looking at a hadith and making their own rulings. One must understand the hadith with its respected commentary.

[sister_hood]

i was once given advise which i thought was really good

for the first 7 years pamper your child
discipline them for the next 7 years,
and after that just be a friend.

and someone also said the below but i don't know how islamic it is. i haven't looked into it yet cause my kids are under five yet.

don't hit your children not even lightly but when you do hit them hit them hard.

i know it sounds harsh but i think it must work better then them getting a small smack cause that won't mean anything really. but if they do something really bad, you explain to them what they have done, then they get a spank and once they have had some timeout they get some quailty time in with you.

hitting should never be a reaction to something but a concequence for the child so they know what will happen next time.

[Ebony]

I seen a woman with a kid in pram and her 2 year old trailing behind her warning him to watch his step since the pavement was filthy. He being a bit doo lally as kids are, stepped in the filth.

Mother dearest started to swear at the boy, really disgusting expletives as well, and smacked him. He didnt have a clue what was going on and looked incredibly disorientated. And the smack didnt effect him, demonstrating perhaps howoften he gets whack to the point of no reaction.

Lovely parenting example.

[dhakiyya]

If the pavement was covered in filth like that.... I would carry my daughter :S toddlers haven't been walking long enough to avoid stepping in it !!!

[Medievalist]

It depends on the age of the child and the nature of their offence.

We were told that you shouldn't hit the kids when they are under 10 unless its a really really really major thing they've done - but then I cant think of a major act deserving a slap under 10 :scratch:

I can understand an older child who has some understanding needing some discipline depending on the situation but under 10s generally are a bit dopey. I can understand harshness, sterness and chores as a good punishment for under 10s or the removal of treats but more than anything explanation.

When you're an adult you know what should be done and what shouldnt but sometimes we tend to forget how thick we were as kids. I think back to some of my childhood and marvel at my parents patience. In these situations parents need to remember their own childhood.

When I was younger if I accidently broke a glass or cup - the look from my dad was enought to make me careful for the rest of the week - no beats necessary.

But when they get older - then proportional punishment may be necessary. Also parents need to be clever in the punishment.

I was really quite rude at one point - think when I was about 11/12 (some might say still am :p ) and my dad commented once when I was rude to someone and next day he had me cleaning the toilet :rotfl:

Thats a very clever punishment and perfect for the crime, and I had to clean it properly, with bleach and scrubbing and everything :vomit:.

So yeh - hit em when they need it but in proportion.

Other thing is punishment may need to be specific to the genders. All of us are boys alhamdulillah. And I've noticed that with all of us when we were about 13-16 my dad was really strict in the sense uncouth or crude behaviour wasnt tolerated and we were given tasks like mixing cement or carrying bricks or painting or digging out trees. Punishments that were actually very suitable and also constructive. :up:

So my dad is great.

[dhakiyya]

Teoma is one for thinking up contrsructive punishments like these... I think he once made his son dig a big hole then fill it in again or something (or am I mixing him up with someone else :scratch: )

I think there are so many punishments that are better than hitting that I don't see the need for it. Though what Med said about "the look" only works if you've already established good consistent discipline from toddlerhood and taught kids that you mean what you say and follow through with warnings as opposed to making empty threats. You don't need to hit to do this in fact the exact punishment is a lot less important than being consistent. Although the punishment does need to be age appropriate and fit the crime (for young children age appropritae means immediate which is why naughty corner type things work well - provided you are consistent - because they go there straight away)

Regarding little kids being "thick" lol they're not thick poor lil things... but limited in how much they can understand cause they're young.... I've seen parents going into lengthy explanations with toddlers about why something is wrong... how much is the child taking in? for even the most verbally advanced toddlers probably not much. Best to keep the explanations short and sweet, e.g. "don't hit people because it hurts." even if you think your young child is capable of understanding more than this they may not be so willing to take it in if they've just been made to sit in the naughty corner or whatever!

Another thing that I don't think gets enough attention is kids being yelled at. Its one thing to raise your voice and be firm, but its another to crush a child with yelling hurtful things at them. In what ebony described in her last post, I honestly think being yelled at with obscene language did more damage to the kid than being hit. Yelling and losing control is not discipline either, cause parents who fail to discipline their kids and then run out of patience and just yell and scream have their kids running rings round them, and the nasty things they yell at the kids have no affect on their behaviour, and just damage their self esteem (whcih would make the behaviour worse in the long run). When parents who are good at discipline raise their voice, its not a yell, its very controlled and makes the kids take notice. This is a voice technique that can be learned.

as for losing your temper, all parents do this from time to time and IMO the best thing to do if you lose your rag and yell at your kids is to apologise afterwards, but explain that what they did is still wrong and they still get consequences for it (same as if you hadn't lost your rag) but that you didn't mean to yell at them.

[RazielTemp]

I was on my way home from art course...and I came across a mother with two kids. The children were crying and instead of consoling them or putting the dummy back into their mouths, the mother would shout, curse and hit the kids. I was shocked and couldn't believe my eyes. Is this how we discipline our kids? I just can't understand how a mother could hit and abuse her own flesh and blood? :(

Discipline is essential. True. But hitting a child is hardly the most productive form of teaching right from wrong. It does not correct the child’s thoughts on what he did wrong. It teaches your child that violence is the answer. Hitting a defenceless child, especially if he/she is really small.... is nothing more than bullying. Shouldn't we teach our children good values without resorting to violence?

I don't think there is any harm in a swift slap to the back of the hand if your child is very out of line….but a kick…a slap in the face? An absolute no no. :rubeyes:

Did the Prophet Muhammad ever hit his children? As far as I'm aware, he didn't.

So my question is…if you had children, would your idea of disciplining the kids mean you’d have to hit them? Or would you resort to other methods? If so, what are they?

:jkk: ukthi,

some "Mums" just can;'t hack being a Mum, and take their frustration out on innocent children, ... really sad and idiotic ...

I dislike it very much when people hit children especially baby's and infants,

:jkk:

[susu12092]

diff. kids have diff. diciplinary needs. I know of kids who it doesnt do any good to hit them. I don't think you should ever raise your voice at them, as long as you use a stern serious voice.
Time out works good. Not a 5 min. timeout, more like a 15 min. time out, depending how old they are and what they did.

[Cartman]

diff. kids have diff. diciplinary needs. I know of kids who it doesnt do any good to hit them. I don't think you should ever raise your voice at them, as long as you use a stern serious voice.
Time out works good. Not a 5 min. timeout, more like a 15 min. time out, depending how old they are and what they did.

time-outs?????

no offense, but kids nowadays would laugh that off

[insomniac]

I'm sorry to say this but some kids need a long beating or else they think they're untouchable. (I say this in terms of teens)

[KhalisahdaGreat]

I seen a woman with a kid in pram and her 2 year old trailing behind her warning him to watch his step since the pavement was filthy. He being a bit doo lally as kids are, stepped in the filth.

Mother dearest started to swear at the boy, really disgusting expletives as well, and smacked him. He didnt have a clue what was going on and looked incredibly disorientated. And the smack didnt effect him, demonstrating perhaps howoften he gets whack to the point of no reaction.

Lovely parenting example.

What's a pram?

[KhalisahdaGreat]

Let me just say this.

By the time I was 3 years old I never threw a tantrum in public or in private. Once I was 5, I was preparing the dinner table regularly for my parents' guests while their own children ran around noisily and I never spoke unless spoken to in the company of adults. I never questioned my parents when they told me to do something, I simply did it. My brother was this way too, and my parents constantly received compliments on how well-behaved their children were.

How did my parents accomplish this? With a hard hand and a swift belt. That's it. I firmly believe that no amount of yelling or reasoning with me at that age could have made me such a good child, because I just didn't have the mental capacity to understand anything else and it would've just frustrated everyone involved.

I think parents nowadays expect too much out of their children. They expect their children to be good and well-behaved without any sort of physical punishment involved, and I'm sorry but for most children it just doesn't work that way. Kids are like animals and we have to shape them into adults, if we just let them run wild then they will remain animals and never learn any values.

Imam Shafi'i ra became a teacher in his childhood. He would recite Ahadith to the people from a very young age. Even elderly people attended his lectures on Hadith. On one occasion, he started playing around. This was quite shocking to some of his students. To which Imam Shafi'i ra replied: "A child will remain a child even if he is the child of a Prophet."

A man once came with his two children to Hadrat Thanwi ra. Before the father brought them, he warned them not to misbehave, jump and play about. The children came before Hadrat Thanwi ra, seated themselves and remained completely silent. To this, Hadrat remarked: "These are not children; these are adults!"

Moral: Allow children to be children and behave like children, within reason. Personally, I think that a non-questioning, perfectly quiet, 'well-behaved' child isn't normal, at least not until like age nine or ten. If you ruthlessly prevent him or her from doing anything demanded by his childhood instincts--for example, "Don't be mischievous, don't even make a sound! Don't engage in petty squabbles etc." -- the child's intellectual capabilities can be adversely affected. It's said that as much as a child is alert and sharp in his or her childhood days, that much agile, vigilant and sharp he or she be will be when they grow up. If a child doesn't demand rights from others, if someone abuses a child and they've been taught to listen to adults without question, if someone beats a child and he or she fails to retaliate but goes crying to mother, then how is that child expected to defend him or herself when they grow older? How can a child develop the attributes of courage and bravery? How is he or she expected to face the challenges of the future? So let a child be a child and behave like one.

[Neurostyler]

I seen a woman with a kid in pram and her 2 year old trailing behind her warning him to watch his step since the pavement was filthy. He being a bit doo lally as kids are, stepped in the filth.

Mother dearest started to swear at the boy, really disgusting expletives as well, and smacked him. He didnt have a clue what was going on and looked incredibly disorientated. And the smack didnt effect him, demonstrating perhaps howoften he gets whack to the point of no reaction.

Lovely parenting example.

My friend saw a woman telling off her child who was scuffing his sneakers on the sidewalk - she smacked him and screamed at him, 'don't do that! your shoes will look like ---- and then everyone will think you are ----!'

Good reasons she came up with there! NOT.

[naila-k]

My baby is 15 months old, if i give her a small tap she thinks its funny and proceeds to hit herslef! When I was a kid I remember threats of being hit with the wooden spoon, but i dnt actually remeber being hit with it! Sometimes the threat is effective enough.

[dhakiyya]

a threat will only ever be effective if the child knows from past experience that you follow up your threats/warnings. Kids - even toddlers - can smell empty threats a mile off and will run rings round the parents who make them. However once you have effectively disciplined a child (i.e. consistently enforced the rules and consistently carried out all warnings/threats that the child ignored) then you no longer need to actually punish (99% of the time), because they know its not worth disobeying (99% of the time, cause even well disciplined kids push the boundaries from time to time....!!)

[naila-k]

what about super nanny and the naught step...alwayz works on the tv!

[dhakiyya]

the exact punishment matters a lot less than being consistent - any punishment without consistency is at best useless and at worst becomes cruelty.

My toddler has a naughty corner. And she knows the meaning of the word NO

[ze leetle elper]

Alhamdullillah my lil one (23 months :inlove: ) understands quite a lot of language, so if we explain to her why she cannot have something or do something she usually understands and doesn't ask for it :o In fact she will remember the reason for the next time she sees that thing and tell us why she can't have it lol. Otherwise I have found distraction to be the next best thing when faced with immediate demands for 'I want this' etc lol, just distract her with something else and she forgets about it :p :inlove: :love:

[naila-k]

I have a problem, a lot of people talk about consistency, but when you live with an extended family this is very hard to enforce, i might say somethings not allowed, like sweet things after a certain time but others will give it when i go to the toilet or something, and my baby is clever enough to know this and take advantage of it. The advice from health professionals is to nevrgive juice in a bottle, yet she sees her 5 year old cousin having it so she wants it, and next time when i tyr to give it from a cup she'll refuse. She knows I'm the only one hwo tries to discipline her so she prefers to go to anyone else apart from me and in my mind this is affecting the relationship between me and her. If i say anything people say that they know how to raise kids and they have had more experience then me, which is true. Anyone had any similar experiences?

[dhakiyya]

you should have words with your family about allowing your daughter to break the rules, they shouldn't do that - make them watch "honey we're killing the kids" and see from there the result of kids being allowed to eat too many sweets and unhealthy food and lifestyle, and it also teaches about the importance of parental rules, family meals and other things like that - maybe it will help them see where you're coming from. Her cousin having different rules is a different problem, but isn't your sister/sister in law concerned about her children getting tooth decay?

even if other people have more experience parenting than you, your child is still your child and you have the right to enforce rules about your child - especially when it comes to health issues - and they should support you.

[AbuMubarak]

Most of America's populace thinks it improper to spank children. The other day I was talking to one of my younger buddies about methods used to discipline children.We talked about 'time outs', grounding, holding back 'rewards' until the child displayed desired behavi or, etc. One of the things we discussed was the act of spanking and my friend explained that no, he does not spank any of his children.

He explained that what he does is to take the misbehaving child out for a ride in the car and talk. He said that usually this works and that the child calms down fairly quickly and really doesn't take too much time.

By removing t he child, in this case his son, from the immediate situation and providing a change of scenery, the child is allowed to focus on something different. Once the child has the opportunity to change perspective, things get better quickly and the child has a better understanding of his place within the family and begins to understand the families concept of acceptable behavior.

He kindly shared a picture of the process, which I share with you now.




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[lubnaa]

you have a sense of humor.

AbuMubarak ''He kindly shared a picture of the process, which I share with you now.




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[mr religuous]

the main issue is earning ur kids respect..if they resptect u nuff then they should listen 2 ur ordres when given 1..bt i dnt realli knw if i would hit thfm maybe giv them a lil slap if they coross the line..i mean udnt want ur kids 2 walk all ova u..u nee d 2 show them whos boss..tht ur the one in charge nt them

[Ansariyah]

I dont think its necessary to hit a child unless they are doing something to endanger themselves...like sticking something into a light socket. BUT in saying that, a parent would have to raise thier child in a correct manner from the beginning so that they never HAVE to hit a child. I see children nowadays that are so beligerent and horrible, that I would hit them myself if given the chance! :torture:

But a child that has been raised with love and effort, who has been given the time and energy to be nurtured and treated well, usually will not require being hit. Of course there are always exceptions.

I guess it depends as well on how you define hitting. Is it a form of punishment or discipline, is it done with anger and/or rage. Do you want to teach the child something, or do you want to control and hit to lash out and manipulate thier behaviour?

If its to discipline, to teach, to make them aware that they are doing wrong and the only way to correct is by hitting, then hitting isn't such a bad thing. Depending again on HOW you hit. Spanking on the bottom, slap on the arm, pull of the ear, thump on the back of the head...doesn't seem to bad. But what about a kick, a punch, a slap...seems a bit over the top. Well more than a bit actually!

The other day I was in the store and my daughter who is three looked at a lady and said 'she's fat'. I was mortified, (cuz the lady heard her) and have told her before not to say things like that. So I told her again and reinforced it with a thump on the back of her head (as she was sitting in the trolley with her back to me). The thump i gave her in no way hurt her, but it reinforced what I was saying as well giving her something to think about the next time she wants to say something like that. She cried like I had knifed her in the back! But afterwards she said sorry and I explained to her why she shouldn't say things like that.

So was I wrong? I dont think so.
As long as people do the best they can when it comes to raising thier kids, and remember that we are all accountable before Allah. That can be a scary reminder at times.

[mmmilkybar]

Hitting a child should not be permitted FULL STOP. There are other ways of discipline. Show the child how they are supposed to act, give them guidance, don't scare them. Think about it if you start hitting them they will be afraid of you and be distant from you. I have a (nearly) two year old cousin and he is very naughty. They have this really nice fluffy mat in their living room which no one is allowed to go on (I find this stupid), since it will go dirty. He runs all over the house but will not go on the mat. I saw running around the living room, coming near me to hit me (:help:) and he carefully went past it then came to me. Doesn't this show children came be reasoned with? And a child understanding at the age of two? Alhamdullilah.

[ummbilal]

we smack our children as an absolute last resort and try to never do it because we are angry and only as a fixed punishment, the hardest thing is sometimes to not loose it.

Children need boundtries and they have to be enforced or the child will take advantage and that goes from age 2 to age 18!

Living with extended family can be hard, we found it extreemly dificult as my husbands parents couldnt bare to see our son told off and he quickly learnt that if he wanted something he needed to ask nanny not mummy, but in this situation you need to speak to family and tell them your rules and inshaallah when the child finds our everyone is in agreement they will stop trying it on.

[najmati]

Thanks Loobna, I totally agree with you.

All it takes is reading a few books on how to discipline kids without violence and one wouldn't ever have to hit them.

To me hitting is a personal failure of the person who does it to control themselves. Also there must be a lack of love and mercy.

And how come it seems acceptable for some people to hit minors, but when it comes to adults, the victim can go to court? Do children not need enhanced protection, because they are in a weaker position? I think the law on physical integrity should be the same for children and adults.

[najmati]

the main issue is earning ur kids respect..if they resptect u nuff then they should listen 2 ur ordres when given 1..bt i dnt realli knw if i would hit thfm maybe giv them a lil slap if they coross the line..i mean udnt want ur kids 2 walk all ova u..u nee d 2 show them whos boss..tht ur the one in charge nt them

Do you think respect can be earned by hitting them? I am quite sure that's not the case. More likely it will be fear and resentment.