Marriage for Sex...Is it possible? [Archive] - Page 2 - Ummah.com

Raashid

31-01-08, 07:32 PM

No, no, no, no and, lastly, no.

The problem is that our (or rather, your:up:) perception of what compromises physical beauty has been overwhelmingly influenced by what we see on television, read in magazines and, by extension, witness in the actions of people who follow those media.

We see air-brushed, photoshopped images of women in magazines and expect sisters in the real world to be able to compete with such unattainable levels of beauty.

We watch television where the actresses etc., are made up by professional beauticians and lighted in such as way to complement their features and we expect to see the same images in the real world.

The sooner we (or rather, you:up:) realise that beauty, as the saying goes, is much more than just skin deep, the sooner you will start having realistic expectations of what is expected from sisters.

Well female beauty is self-evident it's nothing to do with being conditioned to it. A man naturally prefers certain physical traits over others, which is why the media uses those traits. Besides, like I said, even average Western women look similar to the ideals promoted in the media. They go to the gym, wax body hair, look after their skin, hair etc.

Raashid

31-01-08, 07:33 PM

I'm sure I know more sisters than you do, and I say they don't. Its not a majority.

I agree, but most men I've spke to on he issue agree with me. My guess is that the sister's who are attractive can demand a higher class man then average.

Pippin1376

31-01-08, 07:34 PM

We know all that but like I said, a lot of sisters have that attitude.

I've personally never met any sister like that. But if they are then it is the responsibility of the husband to help her be more comfortable. If there is a problem talk to your wife about it. Communication is key, another reason why you can't just get into marriage only for sex. Women are different and there are things you should do for them specifically. I'm not going to go into details, but if you truly love your wife and care for her, you will take the time to help her and she will help you when it comes to your needs.

.: Anna :.

31-01-08, 07:36 PM

I agree, but most men I've spke to on he issue agree with me. My guess is that the sister's who are attractive can demand a higher class man then average.

so men spoke to you and said, my wife did not wax her legs.. my wife does not wear nice clothes in the house, etc??

i just find it really weird :rubeyes:
but okay then..

Al-Farooq

31-01-08, 07:36 PM

Well female beauty is self-evident it's nothing to do with being conditioned to it. A man naturally prefers certain physical traits over others, which is why the media uses those traits. Besides, like I said, even average Western women look similar to the ideals promoted in the media. They go to the gym, wax body hair, look after their skin, hair etc.

You're contradicting yourself.

If western women appeal to you because they "look similar to the ideals promoted in the media", then you are "being conditioned" to react to a certain ideal of beauty, namely those promoted in the media.

That was my whole point. Beauty isn't just the physical, it is sooooo much deeper than that and hopefully you will realise that, or you are just setting yourself up for disappointment.

GuCcI

31-01-08, 07:38 PM

so men spoke to you and said, my wife did not wax her legs.. my wife does not wear nice clothes in the house, etc??

i just find it really weird :rubeyes:
but okay then..

WAT??? wat a great way to disrespect your wife and put her down :rubeyes: that shouldnt be acceptable. wat kind of man tells his freinds about his wife's leg hair :crying: :eek:

muhammed_1428

31-01-08, 07:38 PM

With regards to exercising etc - the way I look at it is a healthy looking body is the reward from Allah SWT for keeping your heart healthy.

To put some people off junk food (I've said some of these things before actually:)

500ml bottle of fizz has 10 teaspoons of sugar (and chemicals which highly disrupt digestion so you lose out on protein etc and get more fat instead, same thing with diet fizz except no sugar - but diet fixx tastes awful anyway)

Average chicken burger has about 400/500 calories, next time you go to the chicken shop get pieces instead with no chips (and drink water), put the chicken on tissue (bounty etc) to soak up more of the oil, and dont eat the skin.

We all like chocolate (unless you're like, allergic) but be careful, not good for the teeth.

You know, if you want to eat more healthily - just think of whats happening inside your body when you do things like eat unhealthy things or not exercising enough - Subhanullah the rusool SAW and the companions (RA) had to catch their food, skin it, make fire to heat it then eat it - not just take the pizza out the box and gas makr it at 7 for 15 mins :p 30 mins of exercise a day - keep at it bros and sisters.

Back to the topic - Mut'a is haraam (read my earlier post on this thread).

so men spoke to you and said, my wife did not wax her legs.. my wife does not wear nice clothes in the house, etc??

P.S. If some bros are going around doing this, tell them to stop - its very inappropriate.

.: Anna :.

31-01-08, 07:39 PM

WAT??? wat a great way to disrespect your wife and put her down :rubeyes: that shouldnt be acceptable. wat kind of man tells his freinds about his wife's leg hair :crying: :eek:ya thats what i mean :|

Raashid

31-01-08, 07:42 PM

so men spoke to you and said, my wife did not wax her legs.. my wife does not wear nice clothes in the house, etc??

i just find it really weird :rubeyes:
but okay then..

No they don't say it about their wives as such though I draw my own conclusions when they say they prefer the look of the Western women to Muslim women because they're smooth skinned, glossy haired etc. and are interested in a healthy sex life, even though they're married.

Pippin1376

31-01-08, 07:44 PM

No they don't say it about their wives as such though I draw my own conclusions when they say they prefer the look of the Western women to Muslim women because they're smooth skinned, glossy haired etc. and are interested in a healthy sex life, even though they're married.

Question: Why are they observing this when they are married? Shouldn't the men be lowering their gaze? Instead of talking about what they want they should be working on their marriage.

Raashid

31-01-08, 07:46 PM

Question: Why are they observing this when they are married? Shouldn't the men be lowering their gaze? Instead of talking about what they want they should be working on their marriage.

In this society you see it everywhere, even if you lower your gaze, at some point you have to interact with kafir women. It's evident then. Like I said, I don't ask about the specifics of their marriage but they can't force the wife to want to look good for him.

.: Anna :.

31-01-08, 07:49 PM

Question: Why are they observing this when they are married? Shouldn't the men be lowering their gaze? Instead of talking about what they want they should be working on their marriage.

they should be...

bro raashid when these sickening brothers come up to you and start saying all these things how they like some women they saw in a magazine or in the street or tv extra, and imply that their wife is no good.. cant u give them some reminder or harsh words?? its not acceptable behaviour.

if they are looking at those other women in that way, its like a zina of the eyes, and not something to take lightly.

if he has some problem with his wife, then he better take it to her. maybe in a nice way not a rude way, like if he wants her to look like a certain way then buy her some clothes which he likes, or buy some beauty products, make up etc as a present and give it. im sure if he gives it to her, she will not just throw it in the cupboard without using. that would be the proactive and proper thing to do if someones wife is not caring about appearance, rather than ignores the problem and goes to drool over somebody who is not mahram to him, and even worse to talk about that, which is totally devoid of any shame and decency.

seriously, that behaviour is just :rubeyes::rubeyes::rubeyes:

.: Anna :.

31-01-08, 07:52 PM

In this society you see it everywhere, even if you lower your gaze, at some point you have to interact with kafir women. It's evident then. Like I said, I don't ask about the specifics of their marriage but they can't force the wife to want to look good for him.

he cant force but its not like he has no control on the situation. its kind of simple. if he sees his wife made an effort, or she looks nice one day.. then tell her that, she will be pleased and she will do more. if she puts alot of effort and he totally ignores, or he just criticised her then some women will feel what is the point spending my time putting this effort because he doesnt care. and if he also puts an effort to look nice, she would see he did that and she would feel bad not to do it herself. if he does nothing positive for the situation, he cant just blame his wife. marriage is a two way thing and how he behaves will affect how she behaves, i guarentee..

Pippin1376

31-01-08, 07:54 PM

In this society you see it everywhere, even if you lower your gaze, at some point you have to interact with kafir women. It's evident then. Like I said, I don't ask about the specifics of their marriage but they can't force the wife to want to look good for him.

I have a question. Would it be permissible for a female to only want to marry western men for sex? Western men (according the media) seem to treat their wives and girlfriends better than Muslim men. Women are attracted to what they hear, and the kufar men are incredibly good charmers. They also seem to work out more then Muslim men, therefore they have a better physique. Would that be okay for a Muslim female to then marry them for the sole purpose for sex?

Saudi Prince

31-01-08, 07:56 PM

No they don't say it about their wives as such though I draw my own conclusions when they say they prefer the look of the Western women to Muslim women because they're smooth skinned, glossy haired etc. and are interested in a healthy sex life, even though they're married.

You're either exaggerating or talking about certain men from a certain culture that I have never seen before!

GuCcI

31-01-08, 07:56 PM

Al-Farooq

31-01-08, 07:57 PM

No really, because I think I'd be repelled by a thick layer of hair on a fat woman body even if I'd never seen it before. That's why Muslim men who come to the West or see Western women for the first time are immediatly enamoured by them, even though they've not been conditioned to.

Exactly....and that is why you will never see a fat, hairy woman in a fashion magazine, because for decades we have been slowly conditioned to accept a certain idea of what defines beauty - namely, an ultra-thin, impossibly perfect-skinned woman with no physical imperfections because they are hidden under 10 layers of make-up and soft lighting.

Let's not be obtuse here, Muslim men who come to the west are enamoured by western women because so many western women walk around half-naked, openly discuss sex and generally give the impression they are available.

Muslim women, on the other hand, act like women should, they have a sense of modesty and decency alhamdulillah.

umm shuyookh

31-01-08, 07:57 PM

:salams

Marriage is not lust and the woman is not just pleasure and enjoyment

Saturday, 12 January 2008

The noble Sheikh, the Mufti of the committee of major scholars in Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz ibn Abdullah Aali Shiekh declared that marriage is not just about lust and fulfilling the desires rather it is security and living together and stability.
And the noble Sheikh said: Some of the Muslims have an incorrect understanding about marriage, understanding it in a way other than its reality. Some of them have an understanding that marriage is simply about fulfilling their desires, so although they might implement the legislated marriage contract, their intention with this marriage is not stability nor commitment rather he marries and in himself he is planning to divorce her, meaning he knows in himself that he will marry her for a specific time period even if he does not mention this or disclose this.

So he marries her due to his desire for her not to have serenity and peace of mind with her, but he only counts her as just a simple pleasure; so he’s always on the verge of divorcing her and bringing in someone other than her. So he is a husband and at the same time he mixes this with the intention of divorce. And he does not want from the woman anything other than pleasure.

This is deception to the woman and dishonesty and misleading her; and if a man came to his daughter or his sister and he knew that he did not want her except for this purpose he would not allow him to marry her, but when it comes to other people’s daughters he does whatever he wants.

And all of this is from deception and dishonesty and fraud and betrayal. And for this reason Islam has prohibited temporary marriage; and this is to marry for an estimated number of days for an agreed upon specific duration. Therefore this was made impermissible due to the harms that it contains.

And the Sheikh said: So what the person does not like for his daughters then he should not like it for the daughters of the Muslims.

And the Sheikh said: And some of the people might travel to places in order to find marriage for a specific number of days or months and he thinks this is a marriage contract and all of this is trivial to him, so he falls into sin.

And there are some who marry a number of women before (the other women he divorced) finish their waiting period. So he will merge the marriage to more than ten women in one month without any concern for the Islamic legislated contract.

And the Mufti said: The Muslim must have good judgment and he should not let his goal be to fulfill his desire in a way that is not in accordance with the Islamic legislation. And he must adorn himself with the manners of Islam, and he must look at other people’s daughters just like he looks at his own daughters and his own sisters, and he should put people in the position that he likes to be in.

Therefore if the person believes it allowable to do evil to the daughters of others and to not comply with the Islamic standard and then he does not want this same evil for his daughters; then why this discrepancy? Where is the balance, where is the justice?

Unfortunately, there are some Muslims who make permissible that which Allah has made impermissible so in a matter of days they marry a number of women, all with the intention of divorce, seeking by this to gain some benefit (from the wife) in the summer or the winter or other than this, and Islam prohibits this. Therefore Islam wants for us to be well-balanced in our contracts and to put others in the position of our daughters and our sisters and to be truthful in our dealings.

And the Sheikh said: …and some of them go and travel and get married against the normal system and then they fall into sin or serious situations and perhaps they might abandon their wives or leave them and not return to them after they have become pregnant or given birth to his child, so this exposes the Muslim descendants to danger. And some of them don’t care about their wives or their children so major problems occur as a result of this treacherous marriage.

Translated by Rasheed Barbee

The following is a summary translation taken from sahab.net

Link: http://www.sahab.net/forums/showthread.php?t=354427

edawah.com

sis_niqabi

31-01-08, 08:05 PM

It's true man, at least someone can admit it. Enough brothers I know say there sex life is so disappointing because sisters think beauty is wrong, because it's copying kuffar. But the truth is, Western kafir women agitate a man's desires because the look they adopt is geared to that. Obviously a Muslim woman shouldn't show it outside, but brothers tell me there's no effort in keeping trim figure, waxing body hair etc. In fact, I know of one sister who said explicitly she isn't going to wax her body hair and expects the husband to be a good Muslim and like it!
So that's why a lot of brothers who can afford to marry still don't because they know they're not going to be satisfied!

im honestly kinda of disgusted by this post. you are basically saying that a kafir woman makes a better wife than a muslim woman. kafir women also go around walking around half naked outside for the whole world to see.

i remember an imam at this masjid one time was taking question and answers. and this one sister said her husband told her kafir women were better at pleasing their husbands than Muslim women. the imam said the man should go and say his shahadah again for saying something so foul like that.

watch what you say about your muslim sisters.
and there are tons of muslim sisters who keep up their appearances just like there are tons of kafir women who do not keep up their appearances.

actually if you look at it. obesity rates among women are the highest in the west. not in the east. so which women are the slobs in reality?

i think the problem is men like you think western women look like the one's in fashion magazines. FYI those women are airbrushed and many of them starve themselves.

and did you know that make-up sales are the highest in middle eastern countries which are muslim countries. muslim women do beautify themselves. it's even to the point where they are going too far and leaving the house all made up

miss-islamic

31-01-08, 09:01 PM

Anna, he discussed it with her but she can't help. She's sextually cold! Would you recommend him another wife or are you still reluctant about it? Come on tell the solution that Islam offers. ;)

The next wife can be exactly the same. :rolleyes: Anyway, it is true that a women in the past/backhome tend to be brought up with idea that sex is bad, disgusting etc and this affects the marriage. “A lady in the streets but a freak in the sheets,” is what men want. Muslim men in the past had more halal sexual freedom (polygamy, slaves, etc).

Raashid

31-01-08, 09:57 PM

they should be...

bro raashid when these sickening brothers come up to you and start saying all these things how they like some women they saw in a magazine or in the street or tv extra, and imply that their wife is no good.. cant u give them some reminder or harsh words?? its not acceptable behaviour.

if they are looking at those other women in that way, its like a zina of the eyes, and not something to take lightly.

if he has some problem with his wife, then he better take it to her. maybe in a nice way not a rude way, like if he wants her to look like a certain way then buy her some clothes which he likes, or buy some beauty products, make up etc as a present and give it. im sure if he gives it to her, she will not just throw it in the cupboard without using. that would be the proactive and proper thing to do if someones wife is not caring about appearance, rather than ignores the problem and goes to drool over somebody who is not mahram to him, and even worse to talk about that, which is totally devoid of any shame and decency.

seriously, that behaviour is just :rubeyes::rubeyes::rubeyes:

Like I keep saying they don't tell me about their wives, but it's just obvious from what they're saying when I ask what marriages is like, advice etc. They don't drool over magazines or women, like I said, in this society we see women every day of our lives, we have to even in the course of our jobs and going about our business. If you see a beautiful woman, it doesn't mean you're drooling, but you have to look at them to deal with them. It's in man's nature to see the beauty, you can't just ignore it, we're programmed to.
I've got news for you: men talk about women and sex, whether they are pious or not, if you think otherwise you're naive. That doesn't mean they're talking about particular women, or their own wife, just in general terms so you can deduce their views from that.

.: Anna :.

31-01-08, 10:04 PM

they cant be that pious if they really talk like how you are describing.

Raashid

31-01-08, 10:06 PM

I have a question. Would it be permissible for a female to only want to marry western men for sex? Western men (according the media) seem to treat their wives and girlfriends better than Muslim men. Women are attracted to what they hear, and the kufar men are incredibly good charmers. They also seem to work out more then Muslim men, therefore they have a better physique. Would that be okay for a Muslim female to then marry them for the sole purpose for sex?

I'm glad you mentioned that because hardly any Muslim woman would admit it, but I think they would prefer Western men mostly, but not just for sex, but as you said, better behaved towards women in terms of charming treatment rather then bashing them up and making them slave in the kitchen.
I'll also be honest, many womenthink black and European men are more attractive, being taller, more athletic and it's well known that women prefer tall men. Myown race are hindered by short stature and timid personalties which are not attractive qualities in a man.
I see it at Muslim marriage events, the sisters who are not from very strict families flock to thewhite brothers, all the white brothers I know get plenty of marriage interest and the sisters drop all their financial requirements because they know the revert brothers won't have family who makes her a slave so she has a chance at happiness.
I wouldn't begrudge the sister's that at all, if they want an English brother and can get one, everyone deserves marriage to be happy, not the miserable life it usually is.
By the way, I don't know your religion, but in case you don't know, a Muslim woman can only marry a Muslim man, whereas a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman.

Raashid

31-01-08, 10:07 PM

You're either exaggerating or talking about certain men from a certain culture that I have never seen before!

No disrispect brother, but you are a Prince, how much do you deal with ordinary Muslims from low backgrounds?

Pippin1376

31-01-08, 10:10 PM

I'm glad you mentioned that because hardly any Muslim woman would admit it, but I think they would prefer Western men mostly, but not just for sex, but as you said, better behaved towards women in terms of charming treatment rather then bashing them up and making them slave in the kitchen.
I'll also be honest, many womenthink black and European men are more attractive, being taller, more athletic and it's well known that women prefer tall men. Myown race are hindered by short stature and timid personalties which are not attractive qualities in a man.
I see it at Muslim marriage events, the sisters who are not from very strict families flock to thewhite brothers, all the white brothers I know get plenty of marriage interest and the sisters drop all their financial requirements because they know the revert brothers won't have family who makes her a slave so she has a chance at happiness.
I wouldn't begrudge the sister's that at all, if they want an English brother and can get one, everyone deserves marriage to be happy, not the miserable life it usually is.
By the way, I don't know your religion, but in case you don't know, a Muslim woman can only marry a Muslim man, whereas a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman.
You are tip toeing the issue. I said is it okay if a women, a muslim women, choose to go with her desires and marry a Western Man (or even a regular old joe) only for sex? She doesn't care about anything else, but that is simply her whole desire to get married. Is it then okay?

Raashid

31-01-08, 10:11 PM

im honestly kinda of disgusted by this post. you are basically saying that a kafir woman makes a better wife than a muslim woman. kafir women also go around walking around half naked outside for the whole world to see.

i remember an imam at this masjid one time was taking question and answers. and this one sister said her husband told her kafir women were better at pleasing their husbands than Muslim women. the imam said the man should go and say his shahadah again for saying something so foul like that.

watch what you say about your muslim sisters.
and there are tons of muslim sisters who keep up their appearances just like there are tons of kafir women who do not keep up their appearances.

actually if you look at it. obesity rates among women are the highest in the west. not in the east. so which women are the slobs in reality?

i think the problem is men like you think western women look like the one's in fashion magazines. FYI those women are airbrushed and many of them starve themselves.

and did you know that make-up sales are the highest in middle eastern countries which are muslim countries. muslim women do beautify themselves. it's even to the point where they are going too far and leaving the house all made up

I'm not saying they make better wives, obviously they don't but from what I've gleaned, the sexual side of marriage is not being met to the men's satisfaction and I still maintain that sex is the primary, if not only aspect of marriage a man is concerned with.

Pippin1376

31-01-08, 10:11 PM

No disrispect brother, but you are a Prince, how much do you deal with ordinary Muslims from low backgrounds?

Saudi has problems with 19 year olds, I don't think people from low backgrounds would worry him too much as long as they are Muslim.

Raashid

31-01-08, 10:14 PM

You are tip toeing the issue. I said is it okay if a women, a muslim women, choose to go with her desires and marry a Western Man (or even a regular old joe) only for sex? She doesn't care about anything else, but that is simply her whole desire to get married. Is it then okay?

If the man is Muslim I se no reason to say it's wrong because by marrying him she's fulfilling her desires n the only halal way, so in fact she is doing a rewardable action.

Pippin1376

31-01-08, 10:17 PM

If the man is Muslim I se no reason to say it's wrong because by marrying him she's fulfilling her desires n the only halal way, so in fact she is doing a rewardable action.

But Muslim men don't know how to please the wife. If that is the case should she divorce him and find someone else?

Raashid

31-01-08, 10:22 PM

But Muslim men don't know how to please the wife. If that is the case should she divorce him and find someone else?

If the man is a convert he probably will know how to please his wife, if you mean sexually.
But anyway, I have heard there is Islamic evidence that a woman can seek divorce if she's not attracted or sexually satisfied by him. I remember the hadith was quoted at a Muslim marriage event :o

Le Croyant

31-01-08, 10:25 PM

Le Croyant

31-01-08, 10:30 PM

No they don't say it about their wives as such though I draw my own conclusions when they say they prefer the look of the Western women to Muslim women because they're smooth skinned, glossy haired etc. and are interested in a healthy sex life, even though they're married.

You're either exaggerating or talking about certain men from a certain culture that I have never seen before!

bro, u r kidding rite.

u have never seen our (Arab/Saudi culture) obsession with western women?

Pippin1376

31-01-08, 10:37 PM

If the man is a convert he probably will know how to please his wife, if you mean sexually.
But anyway, I have heard there is Islamic evidence that a woman can seek divorce if she's not attracted or sexually satisfied by him. I remember the hadith was quoted at a Muslim marriage event :o

I didn't say convert, I said regular ol' Muslim. But whatever.

Brother I think you really need to get your mind out of the gutter. Is sex good? Only if it's in the halal sense. But one should focus all their time and energy when it comes to it. If you want a Western Women because of their beauty and not their piety, then by all means go ahead. But beauty on the outside fades. What they are on the inside should matter just as much. If your wife truly loves you and you truly love her. Then this would not be an issue. But if you don't respect your wife, and talk about how you don't like her appearance to other brothers. Then you need to ask yourself, why is she like this? Is it because of me? What should I do to help my wife? If you don't do anything, and you simply talk about her behind her back:

1. You are gossiping.
2. You are showing the other brothers that you don't respect your wife.
3. You are not talking to the right person about the issue. The right person would be your wife.

This is why a relationship based only on sex doesn't work. There are more things that happen in a marriage, and if you don't work on it then you are at fault.

If you are having problems speak to your wife about it! Listen to Heba Kotb together, and work on your marriage. You need to get out of the idea that only Western Women are the right women because in reality, Muslim Women are the only right women at the end of the day.

Le Croyant

31-01-08, 10:42 PM

I agree with Pippin..

bro what happens when the outside beauty's gone (the way u perceive it)? She's not going to stay young 4ever.

$HugoBoss$

31-01-08, 10:43 PM

I agree with Pippin..

bro what happens when the outside beauty's gone (the way u perceive it)? She's not going to stay young 4ever.

Divorce :outta:

Raashid

31-01-08, 10:51 PM

The obsession is not with western women but white (preferably blonde women). The media has been successful in ingraining us with how beauty should be perceived.

We go goo goo gaa gaa over white women but when a western women is black or Asian the response is not the same.
That's not true, a man also can go goo goo gaga over black and brown women who similarly beutify themselves.

Those who think sexuality/libido is depended on race.. they r highly mistaken. May b the only difference is that muslim women have hayaa which we should cherish, rather than complain abt. Another thing, muslim women will listen to u & come to u even they r tired as they believe it's part of the religion. Don't expect the same frm a kuffar western women.
I never mentioned race at all, it's the culture of shame that some Muslims culture have that makes the sisters have no interest in this side of the marriage.
Muslim women do NOT necessarily come to a man. I personally know of one brother who had to get divorced because his wife refused sex after just once. For two years he remained patient, but she refused therapy and everything.
Even if the sister accepts sex, it is as passive recipient, not enthusiastic participant. That is what I've gleaned from certain cultures.

Brothers, Shed the media image of what a women shud look like... women in real life r not air brushed. Love her & teat her well and she will come to u with her heart & arms open.

Like I said, it's nothint to do with magazine women, it's the ones we can see everyday in the flesh, they're not airbrushed.

Raashid

31-01-08, 10:59 PM

I didn't say convert, I said regular ol' Muslim. But whatever.

Brother I think you really need to get your mind out of the gutter. Is sex good? Only if it's in the halal sense. But one should focus all their time and energy when it comes to it. If you want a Western Women because of their beauty and not their piety, then by all means go ahead. But beauty on the outside fades. What they are on the inside should matter just as much. If your wife truly loves you and you truly love her. Then this would not be an issue.

Sex is not from the gutter, even Sahabas (RA) admitted they enjoy it.
I never said I want a Western woman, but as things stand in some Muslim community it's more likely to satisfy a man.
The issue of love is also a red herring - in most Muslim marriages I've seen there is no love, it's just going thru the motions to please family. How could yo love someone you don't even know?

But if you don't respect your wife, and talk about how you don't like her appearance to other brothers. Then you need to ask yourself, why is she like this? Is it because of me? What should I do to help my wife? If you don't do anything, and you simply talk about her behind her back:

1. You are gossiping.
2. You are showing the other brothers that you don't respect your wife.
3. You are not talking to the right person about the issue. The right person would be your wife.

This is why a relationship based only on sex doesn't work. There are more things that happen in a marriage, and if you don't work on it then you are at fault.

If you are having problems speak to your wife about it! Listen to Heba Kotb together, and work on your marriage. You need to get out of the idea that only Western Women are the right women because in reality, Muslim Women are the only right women at the end of the day.

How many times do I need to repeat, nobody talks about their wives, just opinions and advice they give you can come to a conclusion. As for talking to the wives, well like I said they refuse to make effort for their appearance, so the brothers can't force them.
The thing is, typical Muslim marriages aren't working either, they're staying together in misery because of community pressure, family etc. So marrying for sex at least you get that if nothing else.

Anyway, I'm not saying that's the ideal situation, I brought the thread up to see if anyone has ideas about changing hardened social attitudes for a positive change.

Raashid

31-01-08, 11:01 PM

The next wife can be exactly the same. :rolleyes: Anyway, it is true that a women in the past/backhome tend to be brought up with idea that sex is bad, disgusting etc and this affects the marriage. “A lady in the streets but a freak in the sheets,” is what men want. Muslim men in the past had more halal sexual freedom (polygamy, slaves, etc).

:up: A sister who understands men!

Le Croyant

31-01-08, 11:03 PM

I never mentioned race at all, it's the culture of shame that some Muslims culture have that makes the sisters have no interest in this side of the marriage.
Muslim women do NOT necessarily come to a man. I personally know of one brother who had to get divorced because his wife refused sex after just once. For two years he remained patient, but she refused therapy and everything.
Even if the sister accepts sex, it is as passive recipient, not enthusiastic participant. That is what I've gleaned from certain cultures.

Bro, r u married?

Yes, I have heard of women who r not interested in sex but at the same time there men who r into it. sounds surprising but it's true.

but regardless of cultures & no matter how shy women r, majority cannot be called non-enthusiastic participants. If anything women want to have a better & more meaningful experience compared to men who r just looking for their own pleasure, 5 minutes is what we look r after.

Raashid

31-01-08, 11:03 PM

they cant be that pious if they really talk like how you are describing.

Is it haram to talk about sexual issues? Sahaba and their wives asked Muhammas SalAllahu alayhis Salam about sexual matters I believe. Not for vulagarity, explicit or titillation, but for knowledge, advice etc.

Muhammad2

31-01-08, 11:08 PM

One would hope, insha'Allah that hayaah is left out of the marriage bed.

31-01-08, 11:10 PM

Is it haram to talk about sexual issues? Sahaba and their wives asked Muhammas SalAllahu alayhis Salam about sexual matters I believe. Not for vulagarity, explicit or titillation, but for knowledge, advice etc.

the sister is commenting on the fact that your friends discuss with others/you what their likes/dislikes are about their wives and then going onto fully admit they eye-up other women and tell u what they like about them, thats a low thing to do.

31-01-08, 11:12 PM

One would hope, insha'Allah that hayaah is left out of the marriage bed.

brother their are islamic etiquettes to follow in the bedroom too, its not to be a total shameless activity,where u do what the heck u want, for example certain activities are forbidden.

Muhammad2

31-01-08, 11:13 PM

I'm just saying what I feel. In my culture a husband and wife would never be ashamed to be unclothed in front of each other.

31-01-08, 11:16 PM

I know that, but if those activities i

(Metaphorically speaking)

your above post is abit much, i think u should edit that

Pippin1376

31-01-08, 11:16 PM

Sex is not from the gutter, even Sahabas (RA) admitted they enjoy it.
I never said I want a Western woman, but as things stand in some Muslim community it's more likely to satisfy a man.
The issue of love is also a red herring - in most Muslim marriages I've seen there is no love, it's just going thru the motions to please family. How could yo love someone you don't even know?
I never said sex is bad. I even told you about Heba Kotb an Arab lady who has her own show about sex. I simply feel that if one obsesses about physical issues should get their minds out of the gutter.

I haven't seen Muslim marriages that are loveless. Alhamdulilah, I'm not even lying when I say that. Every marriage I've seen is based on love.

As for how can you love someone you don't know, if you are talking about arranged marriages then isn't there a time where you talk to each other? You don't get married that fast, there is usually a bit of time where you get to know the person a little more. If you don't like the person then you should end it.

How many times do I need to repeat, nobody talks about their wives, just opinions and advice they give you can come to a conclusion. As for talking to the wives, well like I said they refuse to make effort for their appearance, so the brothers can't force them.
To be honest, if the husband and wife communicated more then she would make the effort. Women want to please their husbands, they get reward from that. But if the brother doesn't show respect, to the point where you are coming up with these conclusions, then they are both at fault.

The thing is, typical Muslim marriages aren't working either, they're staying together in misery because of community pressure, family etc. So marrying for sex at least you get that if nothing else.

Anyway, I'm not saying that's the ideal situation, I brought the thread up to see if anyone has ideas about changing hardened social attitudes for a positive change.

Typical Muslim marriages are not working for only one reason. They are not following the Sunnah of the Prophet :saw: If you marry someone for the sake of Allah then everything will come easy inshallah. Marry someone expecting them only for sex and appear a certain way. Well then you are not being realistic and you are going to end up in sorrow. Marry someone for the sake of Allah, and Allah will open your hear to loving that person so that you would be patient, loving, caring to him/her. You will provide for that person and that person will provide for you.

Al-Farooq

31-01-08, 11:16 PM

Is it haram to talk about sexual issues? Sahaba and their wives asked Muhammas SalAllahu alayhis Salam about sexual matters I believe. Not for vulagarity, explicit or titillation, but for knowledge, advice etc.

Bro, there's a huge difference between talking to your friends about sex and talking to your friends about "sex with the missus".

What goes on between a man and a wife should stay between a man and a wife.

However, I think you have begun to be deliberately argumentative, so I shall simply say "asalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah" and bid you goodnight.

Unique Muslimah

31-01-08, 11:19 PM

:rubeyes:

31-01-08, 11:30 PM

I'm just saying what I feel. In my culture a husband and wife would never be ashamed to be unclothed in front of each other.

i havent said that. :smack:

I have simply stated that in islam there is also such a thing as sexual etiquette i.e "not everything goes", please look them up as i dont feel right posting it all on here.

Medievalist

31-01-08, 11:31 PM

This thread needs to be closed.

al-ghazalli

31-01-08, 11:35 PM

.: Anna :.

31-01-08, 11:48 PM

Is it haram to talk about sexual issues? Sahaba and their wives asked Muhammas SalAllahu alayhis Salam about sexual matters I believe. Not for vulagarity, explicit or titillation, but for knowledge, advice etc.

to ask advice no it is not haram. but then they should ask someone with a capability to help. so no offense but as an unmarried brother, how can any married brother ask u for advice in this matter because you wont know about the topic (or should not know..) so they should ask a scholar or something if they wanted to know like is something permitted, or even if they have a problem and they want advice.

but the things u mentioned like complaining about wife, that is not justified. there is no embarrasment in asking to learn for the sake of deen... but talking about 'wife is not pretty enough and makng and effort i like these girls i saw in street' there is no excuse for that. u dont gain knowledge in that way.

sister asiya already posted hadith about people who just tell others about their private matters for no need, and that is something haram, and lacking dignity and honour and haya.. and if someone tells his friend "my wife is not good in bed" that falls into that, and same if he tells "my wife is great in bed" it falls into that. so unless genuine need to ask a question, to the suitable person, they need to keep their mouth shut

al-ghazalli

01-02-08, 12:27 AM

okay folks i've re-opened the thread after I read every post...pls lets not get graphical in what we are describing....Brothers remember Sisters are reading this thread as well and vise versa so lets keep it g-rated.

Also brothers as I've already posted sex is not everything in marriage...if you feel the urge to commit zina is too strong, then you need to start fasting and keeping your mind occoupied with dhirk.

By the way I know plenty of brothers & sisters who have gotten married at a young age while in University...marriage is affordable and it is an achievable goal.

$HugoBoss$

01-02-08, 12:29 AM

Al Ghaz u from the t dot?????

al-ghazalli

01-02-08, 12:32 AM

Al Ghaz u from the t dot?????

practically...from Pickering..how about u?

Kal-El

01-02-08, 01:19 AM

I don't understand the question to the thread.

GuCcI

01-02-08, 01:22 AM

I don't understand the question to the thread.

it asking if marriage for sex possible. like can u get married for the sole purpose of sex

Kal-El

01-02-08, 01:25 AM

it asking if marriage for sex possible. like can u get married for the sole purpose of sex

Well in all honesty, isn't this the prime reason brothers get married for anyway? That's not to say all they want from a marriage being that intimacy, ofcourse they'll experience, learn and appreciate different aspects to a marriage but this is the main focal reason why brothers are inspired to get married, especially at a young age.

But I guess what he really is asking is is it moral? For sisters it is different; and hence you shouldn't bring up the subject of 'sex' if she asks you why you wanted to get married. You could say ofcourse you were lonely and wanted a partner as you needed intimacy, but to say "yeah I just wanted you for this" is derogative and insulting.

GuCcI

01-02-08, 01:26 AM

But I guess what he really is asking is is it moral? For sisters it is different; and hence you shouldn't bring up the subject of 'sex' if she asks you why you wanted to get married. You could say ofcourse you were lonely and wanted a partner as you needed intimacy, but to say "yeah I just wanted you for this" is derogative and insulting.

lol yeah and it'll get the sister to :outta:

$HugoBoss$

01-02-08, 01:48 AM

I don't understand the question to the thread.

To get married for the purpose of playing humpty dumpty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDyayfFnH90

lol

sis_niqabi

01-02-08, 07:58 AM

Salam

i just want to point out that many of the times if a woman is not interested in having relations with her husband then many of the times it's due to the husband not showing enough affection to her or lack of love in the marriage.

some of the ahkis here think it's just that the woman looks at sex as disgusting or too shy. but brothers also need to look at themselves and ask themeselves why is isn't she interested in having relations with you. if a man goes around only showing affection to the woman inside the bedroom and never showing any affection outisde the bedroom (ie buying her flowers etc) she may think that you only care about having intimate relations and that you don't love her.

and some muslim men need to stop thinking they are the only ones who need to satisfy their needs. women also need to satisfy their needs. Allah has put sexual desire in both genders not just men.

$HugoBoss$

01-02-08, 08:03 AM

Salam

i just want to point out that many of the times if a woman is not interested in having relations with her husband then many of the times it's due to the husband not showing enough affection to her or lack of love in the marriage.

some of the ahkis here think it's just the woman that woman looks at sex as disgusting or too shy. but brothers also need to look at themselves and ask themeselves why is isn't she interested in having relations with you. if a man goes around only showing affection to the woman inside the bedroom and never showing any affection outisde the bedroom (ie buying her flowers etc) she may think that you only care about having intimate relations and that you don't love her.

True the husband should make the wifey feel important and loved but thats still no excuse to avoid her husbands needs :nono:

.: Anna :.

01-02-08, 08:13 AM

Just something to remind relevant to the topic:

Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, ‘A
woman is normally sought in marriage for four reasons;
a) For her wealth, b) For her lineage, c) For her
beauty, and d) For her Deen. (You should) become
successful (by choosing one because) of her Deen. (If
you do not choose on the basis of Deen, then) you will
regret (lit. your hands will be rubbed in sand).’
(Mirqaat vol.6 pg.188)

Because this reason which some brothers are putting forth, its not for deen.. its more like the beauty one, and rasoolallah :saw: himself told that you will regret it if you chose ur wife for those reasons. Its a really immature reason what you are saying. If someone's wife is good in this, but not good in anything else.. the guy will be miserable bc u can not spend all ur time in that, and the rest of the time u have to live with her. When we have advice from Allah's messenger telling us about choosing a spouse, we would be a fool to disregard that and follow something else due to lust.

Raashid

01-02-08, 08:21 AM

True the husband should make the wifey feel important and loved but thats still no excuse to avoid her husbands needs :nono:

Well it sounds like most of the other posters who disagree with my analysis are from educated/middle class background so in your circles maybe these are not issues. But unfortunatley most Muslims are from lower backgrounds where it is an issue.
I know for a fact, even heard from Muslim woman's own mouths they think things like beautifying is bad, that it's "imitating kuffar", so they don't do things like wax body hair, they think contraception is haram, sex is just to have babies. I'm not going to tell you how I know these things, all the women here seem to try and deflect the points I'm raising by saying "you shouldn't be talking about these things", when you don't even know the exact circumstances by which I've come to know these views.
Even before getting married you can't discuss such matter with a prospective spouse because in our culture it's taboo. For example, I think it's worth when discussing marriage, you can ask subtly if the other person is keen on conjugal relations, if they think it's just to make babies, etc. to see if you're compatible in that way. But in my culture they think it's haram to even talk about babies with your own family, like if your own sister is pregnant, the men in the family are not allowed to know. Having spoken to other brothers my age, they confirm it is the same throughout our culture.
What say ye now?

Raashid

01-02-08, 08:25 AM

This thread it getting out of hand guys and needs to be closed...for those brothers who wish to have an indepth conversation about sex and Muslim woman/Western woman should be posting this in the brothers section when they get access to it.

Sex is not everything in marriage brothers...yes it is an integral part of marriage but there is much more to getting married then sex. You'll have to experience it yourselves eventually inshallah.

This attitude perpetuates the problem, because sex and marriage has social implications for the ummah, that's why Sharia has laws regarding it. Since marriage requires input from the man and woman we should discuss the problems between us to find solutions and ideas as to how to solve it. If we have problems with Muslim women, we need their input to slve it, not just talkamongst men.

sis_niqabi

01-02-08, 08:44 AM

Well it sounds like most of the other posters who disagree with my analysis are from educated/middle class background so in your circles maybe these are not issues. But unfortunatley most Muslims are from lower backgrounds where it is an issue.
I know for a fact, even heard from Muslim woman's own mouths they think things like beautifying is bad, that it's "imitating kuffar", so they don't do things like wax body hair, they think contraception is haram, sex is just to have babies. I'm not going to tell you how I know these things, all the women here seem to try and deflect the points I'm raising by saying "you shouldn't be talking about these things", when you don't even know the exact circumstances by which I've come to know these views.
Even before getting married you can't discuss such matter with a prospective spouse because in our culture it's taboo. For example, I think it's worth when discussing marriage, you can ask subtly if the other person is keen on conjugal relations, if they think it's just to make babies, etc. to see if you're compatible in that way. But in my culture they think it's haram to even talk about babies with your own family, like if your own sister is pregnant, the men in the family are not allowed to know. Having spoken to other brothers my age, they confirm it is the same throughout our culture.
What say ye now?

it's not about what kinda of background you come from. it's a matter of knowlege of the deen. maybe where you come from the muslim women view it as bad. but never in my life (and im a woman i know about these things better than you do) have i ever heard a muslimah saying beautifying yourself is bad. i have lived around arab/asians for a long time. and they come from higher and lower backgrounds and i never heard any of them once saying beautifying one's self is haraam.

may i ask what culture do you come from?

if muslim women view view and beautifying one's self as bad. why is there such an increase of out of wedlock babies born among the ummah. or that islamic shcolars are giving countless lectures on why muslim women need to stop going of of the house with make up and perfume on.

.: Anna :.

01-02-08, 08:52 AM

bro raashid... a few fatawa to show u the correct islamic stance on some of these issues

http://www.daruliftaa.com/questions.asp?intPage=1&strNavDir=next&txt_CategoryID=CAT0000013#
http://www.daruliftaa.com/questions.asp?intPage=9&strNavDir=next&txt_CategoryID=CAT0000007#
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=11&ID=4735&CATE=117
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=10&ID=4408&CATE=223
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=10&ID=12305&CATE=223

views which restrict women's beautification in their house is from culture not islam, if someone has that view... and to make contraception completely haram is not right in islam either. such views will come from people not having the islamic knowledge. so the problem is nothing to do with islam its because of that culture. these cultural problems obviously need to be rectified, not just for this but because it causes problems in many aspects life.

and i would advise you not to "subtley" ask girls if they are keen on conjugal relations... what on earth are they supposed to say?! it really goes past the limit on decency... she is not even married to you yet and u want her to say like "oh i can't wait." Its not compatible with modesty, and if there is a mahram for her there, like her dad or her brother are you really going to ask?? :rubeyes:

Raashid

01-02-08, 08:56 AM

.: Anna :.

01-02-08, 08:58 AM

education in encouraging people to follow quran and sunnah and follow islam properly. cultural attitudes can be hard to change, but it is not impossible

`asiya

01-02-08, 09:02 AM

Thanks, but knowing the Islamic rulings isn't enough, social attitudes go deep. So what's your suggestion on clarifying this issue when seeking marriage? Like I said, I know of people who had to get divorced because the spouse wasn't interested in sex and refused to partake.

culture is a problem on so many levels in this ummah, and that is just due to lack of islamic education and adherance. my advice to u akhi, change your freinds and assosiates, i dont know where u got all these ideas about your muslim sisters from, but they are wrong ideas, they are not islamic, and at some level these ppl are either lying, as in speculating, or speaking from experience of their own marriages and i already gave u the hadith that such people are the most wicked in the sight of Allah so dont trust what they have to say. no one can go and speak about their intimate life to anyone unless as anna has explained to u its to someone trustworthy who can give sincere islamic advice to correct the situation. are u even married to think women are like that, get married to a muslimah with islamic education and then you`ll see what the truth and reality of an islamic marriage is.

mfr

01-02-08, 09:33 AM

Not all women, just most practicing Muslim sisters due to the upbringing. A lot of brothers admit this. They say they think it's bad to enjoy it for pleasure. They think it should be close your eyes and think of England (or Pakistan/Bangladesh/Turkey or wherever).

This is the ‘mullah’ mentality of those predominantly from the Indian sub-continent. They use this as an excuse because they don’t agitate each other. The reality is that a marriage will not last long without the physical pleasure.

mfr

01-02-08, 09:41 AM

.: Anna :.

01-02-08, 09:54 AM

`asiya

01-02-08, 10:00 AM

The crucial point is that western women, even fat ones, use money and go to extreme measures to look good. They may be naturally fat & ugly but they make the effort to do something about it. Muslim sisters have no need to do this because they can’t flaunt this as it is haram. Therefore, they believe what’s the point and why go to all that pain to look beautiful. Unfortunately, they may continue to have this attitude even after marriage!

how do u know that? how many muslim women have u been married to ? u will not see a woman on the streets who fears Allah wearing a load of makeup and lipstick with her hair done, because she will fear Allah in not beautifying herself outside of her home, and she will be in hijab, and anyway u should not be looking at any woman, because u are ordered by Allah subhanna wa ta ala to lower your gaze, and even to accidently look at a woman, and then to look again is not permissible for u.

you are just speculating about women on hearsay unless u have had a whole heap of wives yourself and these are your real life experiences that have somehow clouded your view. the fact is a muslim woman fears Allah she follows the islamic rulings, she goes to her husband when he calls her, she does not refuse him, and nor does he refuse her, they have kindness and mercy between them insha Allah, and love to beautify themselves and keep clean for sake of Allah ta ala, to please their spouses ( and that goes for the men too ) this is Islam, anything else u have heard about the muslim women in general is hearsay, a muslim is one who submits to the commands of Allah ta ala.

again not all men are like u and have one ideal of what beauty is, and woman come in all shapes and sizes, sawda radiallahu anha was a large woman, she was the first wife married to the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam, after the death of khadijah she was a wonderfuly warm hearted and kind woman, who was an amazing step mother to the children of Muhammad salAllahu alleyhi wa salam and khadijah, because she was large, she suffered trouble with walking far as she was advancing in age, and when it came to after the age of menopause, and she gave up her nights to `aisha the next woman to be married to the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam, as she was no longer in need of it, but remained as the wife of the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam and enjoyed his company and he would visit with her, and take meals with her, and they would talk, and when `umar upset her she complained to her beloved husband when he came home to her. loosing that intimate aspect of their marriage due to the circumstances did not affect their marriage and their love, respect and care for one another. marriage is not all about intimate relations alone.

Al-Farooq

01-02-08, 10:06 AM

mfr

01-02-08, 10:20 AM

No, no, no, no and, lastly, no.
The problem is that our (or rather, your:up:) perception of what compromises physical beauty has been overwhelmingly influenced by what we see on television, read in magazines and, by extension, witness in the actions of people who follow those media.
.

I don’t agree with this! Are you saying that an obese & hairy gorilla like woman would agitate your instincts? I don’t think so!

No, no, no, no and, lastly, no.
The sooner we (or rather, you:up:) realise that beauty, as the saying goes, is much more than just skin deep, the sooner you will start having realistic expectations of what is expected from sisters.

You may be ugly but there are millions of things they can do to make themselves look attractive for your partner. So why are they not doing anything about it? If there is no physical agitation there will be no marriage to start off with.

We see air-brushed, photoshopped images of women in magazines and expect sisters in the real world to be able to compete with such unattainable levels of beauty.
.

They are not unattainable. Most normal western women do this daily. Some practising sisters know this and have successfully done it! Check out sunnipath - there are questions from sisters in terms of waxing, etc, etc. They should be an example for those that continue to do nothing but put on pounds! I am saying that they should do their best to please their partners in the bedroom or in their house, not to flaunt it in society.

Al-Farooq

01-02-08, 10:21 AM

I give up. *shrugs*

Asalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah.

mfr

01-02-08, 10:32 AM

u will not see a woman on the streets who fears Allah wearing a load of makeup and lipstick with her hair done, because she will fear Allah in not beautifying herself outside of her home, and she will be in hijab, and anyway u should not be looking at any woman, because u are ordered by Allah subhanna wa ta ala to lower your gaze, and even to accidently look at a woman, and then to look again is not permissible for u. .

That’s clear from my post. Muslim sisters are not permitted to do this in public.

Muslim sisters have no need to do this because they can’t flaunt this as it is haram.

sis_niqabi

01-02-08, 10:32 AM

Salam

all im hearing here is how brothers are claiming that sisters do not keep up their appearance. but brothers need to watch themeselves as well. i know many sisters who stay slim and wear nice clothes. but if you see their husbands you'd be like "what happened?". there are tons of brothers out there with big bellies and walking around in raggy clothes. surely if a husband is not beautifying himself the woman wouldn't want to have relations with him either.

mfr

01-02-08, 10:38 AM

im honestly kinda of disgusted by this post. you are basically saying that a kafir woman makes a better wife than a muslim woman. kafir women also go around walking around half naked outside for the whole world to see.

I don’t think that was implied at all.

kafir women were better at pleasing their husbands than Muslim women

Really? The brother was probably just referring to just in the bedroom and not in general.

sis_niqabi

01-02-08, 10:39 AM

They are not unattainable. Most normal western women do this daily. Some practising sisters know this and have successfully done it! Check out sunnipath - there are questions from sisters in terms of waxing, etc, etc. They should be an example for those that continue to do nothing but put on pounds! I am saying that they should do their best to please their partners in the bedroom or in their house, not to flaunt it in society.

but those women you see on TV and magazine do not look like that because they just wax or exercise. they look like that because they are airbrushed,photoshopped, and plastic surgery and many of them keep their weight down to a size 2 by startving themselves

and like i'll say before. the majority of obese women are western women. if you were to go to a lace like texas. all you'll see is obese white women. and even in london now. or even in places like france where they were known for having slim women. now you'll see overweight women in the streets of france.

Deeds

01-02-08, 10:43 AM

:salams

Let's have a quick recap, shall we? :up:

Sisters : Ugly, frigid, uncaring slobs.

Brothers : perfect alhamdulillah.

What's remarkable about this thread is that we have two unmarried brothers telling us what married sisters are like.

Does anyone else see something wrong this situation? The complete lack of first-hand evidence, perhaps? The complete and utter reliance on hearsay and unsubstantiated generalisations?
I totally agree with your post! :up:

If your living in the west it is very unlikely that you will find a Sister who is not on par with her grooming! Regardless of how practicing she is. It is the social norm to take care of your appearance. Heck even the girls from back home have a 'beautician' to take care of their grooming needs!

If you do have worries in the grooming aspect of your future wife, you just have to provide her with the money to get whatever needs done. It really should not be a problem.

`asiya

01-02-08, 10:44 AM

That’s clear from my post. Muslim sisters are not permitted to do this in public.

then if u havent been married to many women, if u are not allowed to look at them on the streets, if it is not permitted for men to diclose the secrets and faults of his wife, than how do u know this ? have you been looking at women ( thats not a q btw) have the people who told u this been looking at women in their homes behind their closed door ? have these men been spying on women? looking at other mens wives ? or have they been speaking about their own wives? and if they have then are they the most wicked of people as the hadith states.

a muslim man is not even permitted to enter his own house after he has been away on a journey without first sending word to his wife that he has returned and is coming home, he should wait outside the town limits till she prepares for his homecoming, because the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam said what means, that a man is not allowed to spy into the lapses of his wife, and a woman is given this time so she can remove her body hair, and beautify herself for her husband, this is Islam, this is what the muslim women have been taught from their deen.

so where are u getting these ideas from ? what women are u seeing in their homes after their marriages to know they dont remove their body hair? or do u see these married women on the street do you know that they are fat under their clothes, and have let themselves go or maybe they have 5 layers and a couple of jumpers on under that jilbab and khimar because its cold , and u know what its none of your buisness what other women other than your wife look like and what they do behind closed doors in their private married life. and the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam said " part of the goodness of a muslim is staying out what of does not concern you"

marry a muslimah who knows her deen and u will never encounter all these things that people have told you and which are terrifying you and poisoning your view of the muslim women.

mfr

01-02-08, 10:46 AM

there are tons of brothers out there with big bellies and walking around in raggy clothes.

Yes, that’s right. But don’t they like the fat bellies? The general impression from the sisters in this thread is that looks don’t matter. Beauty is inner beauty, etc.

Raashid

01-02-08, 10:46 AM

Let's have a quick recap, shall we? :up:

Sisters : Ugly, frigid, uncaring slobs.

Brothers : perfect alhamdulillah.

What's remarkable about this thread is that we have two unmarried brothers telling us what married sisters are like.

Does anyone else see something wrong this situation? The complete lack of first-hand evidence, perhaps? The complete and utter reliance on hearsay and unsubstantiated generalisations?

How do you know who's married or not on here? Anyway, we're not saying brothers are perfect, I've made numerous allusions to brothers shortcomings, if sister's want to start a thread about it, I won't disagree with their cirticisms.

sis_niqabi

01-02-08, 10:48 AM

Raashid

01-02-08, 10:50 AM

what makes some of the comments by some of these ahkis worst is that so many men are talking to other men about what happens in the bedroom between them and their wives. there is a hadith about telling the people about the things that go on in the bedroom. it's haraam.

if someone has really concerns about their problems in the bedroom than they need to go to a trusted sheikh/imam and not their buddies

How do you know if people are talking about their wives? I've said about 4 times now that nobody tells me about their wives, and then a few posts later one of the sister's just makes the same claim again!

sis_niqabi

01-02-08, 10:50 AM

Yes, that’s right. But don’t they like the fat bellies? The general impression from the sisters in this thread is that looks don’t matter. Beauty is inner beauty, etc.

more non-sense. men would like to think that women don't care about looks. but we do. and no woman wants a fat bellied husband either.

the only difference is. that we just don't look at the outside. we look at the inside as well. when a sister is looking for a husband she'll look at the outside and inside.

`asiya

01-02-08, 10:54 AM

How do you know if people are talking about their wives? I've said about 4 times now that nobody tells me about their wives, and then a few posts later one of the sister's just makes the same claim again!

so if no one is speaking about their wives where did u get all these ideas about women who let themselves go after marriage from ? when it is forbidden to look at a woman..how do u know that they refuse their husbands intimate realtions ? do these womens husbands know u have been checking them out and that u know about their marital relations...and how hairy their legs are and what size and shape their bodies are under hijab... id watch out if i was you some brothers will get offended u even ask after their wives by their first name..

im sure this cannot be the case from a muslim, so i will assume that it is shaitan who is playing with your mind and giving u these strange ideas. seek refuge with Almighty Allah, marry a muslimah who knows her deen, if u marry a muslimah and she doesnt know the islamic rulings in regards to marriage then teach her.

Raashid

01-02-08, 10:58 AM

so if no one is speaking about their wives where did u get all these ideas about women who let themselves go after marriage from ? when it is forbidden to look at a woman..how do u know that they refuse their husbands intimate realtions ? do these womens husbands know u have been checking them out and that u know about their marital relations...and how hairy their legs are and what size and shape their bodies are under hijab... im sure this cannot be the case from a muslim, so i will assume that it is shaitan who is playing with your mind and giving u these strange ideas. seek refuge with Almighty Allah, marry a muslimah who knows her deen, if u marry a muslimah and she doesnt know the islamic rulings in regards to marriage then teach her.

I addressed all of that in post #314. You don't need to know the circumstances by which I came by this info. But in some cases I have heard it from the women's own mouth.

mfr

01-02-08, 11:03 AM

a muslim man is not even permitted to enter his own house after he has been away on a journey without first sending word to his wife that he has returned and is coming home, he should wait outside the town limits till she prepares for his homecoming, because the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam said what means, that a man is not allowed to spy into the lapses of his wife, and a woman is given this time so she can remove her body hair, and beautify herself for her husband, this is Islam, this is what the muslim women have been taught from their deen.
.

Yes, yes, I know all this. That’s not the discussion.

how do u know this ? have you been looking at women ( thats not a q btw) have the people who told u this been looking at women in their homes behind their closed door ? have these men been spying on women? looking at other mens wives ? or have they been speaking about their own wives? and if they have then are they the most wicked of people as the hadith states.

What did I say:

I don’t agree with this! Are you saying that an obese & hairy gorilla like woman would agitate your instincts? I don’t think so!

Do you disagree? Why?

You may be ugly but there are millions of things they can do to make themselves look attractive for your partner. So why are they not doing anything about it? If there is no physical agitation there will be no marriage to start off with.
.

It’s common knowledge that numerous things are available; some were available even at the time of the Prophet (SAW). I simply posed a question for those that don’t do anything as to why they are not using the things at the disposal.

They are not unattainable. Most normal western women do this daily. Some practising sisters know this and have successfully done it! Check out sunnipath - there are questions from sisters in terms of waxing, etc, etc. They should be an example for those that continue to do nothing but put on pounds! I am saying that they should do their best to please their partners in the bedroom or in their house, not to flaunt it in society

It is a well known fact it is attainable. Some men may prefer fat women and vice versa. Some may prefer slim and vice versa. That doesn’t mean you just give up.

.: Anna :.

01-02-08, 11:08 AM

Yes, that’s right. But don’t they like the fat bellies? The general impression from the sisters in this thread is that looks don’t matter. Beauty is inner beauty, etc.

That is not what we are telling you. You brothers are here saying muslim women do not care, and dont want to look after appearance and think it doesnt matter. What we are saying is why do you think this with no experience, and that actually it is not true. And that you should put deen first before beauty yes... but we did not say looks does not matter whatsoever. We have told you clearly that beautification is permitted for women in their houses, and is something rewardable when done to please spouses. It also applies that a man should take care too.
Look at the sunnah, rasoolallah :saw: used to be fond of itr and things, this shows that u should make an effort, and many hadith telling dont overeat, and pay attention to cleanliness.
Noone has said looks dont matter and its good to be dirty and looking bad. That is what you brothers keep insisting is the Muslim women's attitude, and so many times we have told you otherwise... you are still just thinking what you want to think, but that is not what the Muslim women here told you.

`asiya

01-02-08, 11:09 AM

I addressed all of that in post #314. You don't need to know the circumstances by which I came by this info. But in some cases I have heard it from the women's own mouth.

ok so according to you the muslim women are just no good, they make lousy wives and they have hairy legs and they dont make any effort so heres the thread for u then lets see if u can find yourself a chaste christian woman who has never had a boyfreind eh and then wait till something goes wrong and she takes your children away from you by court order and half your wealth, half or all of your property and u have to pay her maintainance for years, and these women dont follow islamic rules at all btw so dont expect she will be following anything of your way of life expect a fat x-mas tree to go up , and then theres trudging over to the kufar relatives for new years dinner and easter bank holidays .. so are you willing to compromise your deen because u have some warped idea about the muslim women, consider all that and the muslim women might start to look like a good prospect..

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119371

mfr

01-02-08, 11:12 AM

we do. and no woman wants a fat bellied husband either.
.

I am happy that you have been courageous enough to state this.

the only difference is. that we just don't look at the outside. we look at the inside as well. when a sister is looking for a husband she'll look at the outside and inside.

This is nonsense. The fact remains if the brother is obese, ugly, etc you won’t look on the “inside”. The “outside” would put you off. He may be the most pious person but first impressions dictates what may happen and your actions towards him.

sis_niqabi

01-02-08, 12:03 PM

I addressed all of that in post #314. You don't need to know the circumstances by which I came by this info. But in some cases I have heard it from the women's own mouth.

so even if you heard this from some women's mouths doesn't mean that most muslim women think like this. i've heard some brothers say some foul stuff before. but i don't go around making huge generalizations about my muslim brothers like that

JayC

01-02-08, 12:16 PM

I don’t agree with this! Are you saying that an obese & hairy gorilla like woman would agitate your instincts? I don’t think so!

You may be ugly but there are millions of things they can do to make themselves look attractive for your partner. So why are they not doing anything about it? If there is no physical agitation there will be no marriage to start off with.

They are not unattainable. Most normal western women do this daily. Some practising sisters know this and have successfully done it! Check out sunnipath - there are questions from sisters in terms of waxing, etc, etc. They should be an example for those that continue to do nothing but put on pounds! I am saying that they should do their best to please their partners in the bedroom or in their house, not to flaunt it in society.

subhanAllah. a sweeping generalisation. heres another one, from seeing your attitude i wouldnt class you two marriage material.

looks like you're so busy looking at the kafira ladies you now making assumptions for most us muslimahs???

and you're reading muslim womens issues abt waxing on sunnipath? wat is wrong with you lot?

one brother put it perfectly... kafiras like an apple that has been polished, but you cut it open and find it rotten with worms.

and muslim women do look after themselves FYI, i have seen more brothers 'let loose' and not bothering about their appearance since for brothers in general they look after themselves by shaving their beard and imitating western culture.

we look after ourselves and our husbands and families thank you v much. you dont pay attention to the points the sisters have put across.

everyone agreed, its important to look attractive for the spouse and maintain a regular intimate relationship... now instead of arguing about it over the internet go try and find someone you find attractive to marry you [if possible :rolleyes: doubt it with the attitude] and get a life. how pathetic.

ummbilal

01-02-08, 12:25 PM

Here's a controversial topic that some Muslims may care to comment on (but my guess is most wouldn't want to).
I'm sure most of the men know (but few would admit) that our primary interest in females is sexual. The Western so called sexual revolution liberated men from responsibilities whilst giving them freedom to indulge themselves with women.
For Muslims, we of course don't have such an outlet, but there's no denying that Muslim men are still, well men. So how exactly do we solve this problem? As we know, trying to keep our desires halal can be very difficut. Getting married usually means jumping through hoops. Muslims are generally the worst of economically so the men can't usually provide the means that a woman wants in marriage.
Some barely halal options have come about in the Middle East - misyar marriage for example. The Shiah have their mut'a, which no doubt most Sunnis (men) wish hadn't been abrogated. Some Muslim men - usually Arabs marry Western women - and let's be honest it's so much easier because she's not going to need her dad's permission, a dowry and a house as she's probably already got one and isn't from a culture that requires such.
I've heard other men stretch the halal definitions to breaking point: some Algerian men have casual sex with Western women claiming that this is Dar ul-Harb so the women are concubines :rolleyes:
Worse are the Muslims who commit zina but still have an arranged marriage to please family and perpetuate the cycle of miserable family life that most Muslims seem to have.
Any thoughts on how we solve this problem? Should Muslim women be more independent and be encouraged to choose husbands because they're attracted to them, rather then continue with this culture of preserving family status, honour etc?
Considering that zina is a major sin which is easier to fall into then say drinking alcohol, shouldn't Muslims be trying to solve this problem pratcically, rather then just making airy-fairy claims that we should be doing things according to the Sunnah, Sahaba (ra) etc. when it's obvious most Muslims are far too weak in character to have that sort of patience?
Any thoughts, from sisters as well as brothers?

brother, some Algerian Men are better Muslims than we will ever be and Allahu alam. you have offended just about everyone with this post, if you mean men need marriage then go get married dont be so quick to slander your Muslim brothers whatever their race.

ummbilal

01-02-08, 12:27 PM

Let's have a quick recap, shall we? :up:

Sisters : Ugly, frigid, uncaring slobs.

Brothers : perfect alhamdulillah.

What's remarkable about this thread is that we have two unmarried brothers telling us what married sisters are like.

Does anyone else see something wrong this situation? The complete lack of first-hand evidence, perhaps? The complete and utter reliance on hearsay and unsubstantiated generalisations?

exactly i think the brothers saying these things need to grow up, practise fasting and get married and stop moaning .

Kal-El

01-02-08, 01:12 PM

I think what some brothers here are thinking is that, in comparison to non-Muslim women, Muslim women are not known to be physically self aware in regards to their appearance. This is a misconception primarily due to whom they're thinking is based upon and ultimately comparing with; Kuffar women. Young girls, especially non-Muslim ones who'd wear figure-hugging outfits, are encouraged to be self-obsessed and concerned with their figure because of the cultural expectations of what a woman should appear like. It goes hand in hand with the increased display of sexuality, or liberal freedom as some would call it, of our society and unsurprisingly it has its negative impacts and its affecting even Muslims now.

Muslim women, Kuffar women; they're still women and they think and experience the same primal things which is why they're all basically comfortable in each others presence, more so than some men are with each other ironically! Because Muslim women practice their deen and cover up and remain modest with their public interactions, it doesn't mean privately under a Hijab they're not a woman (and thus think of intimacy or the opposite gender and anything related to that). It's the same misconception that those who wear a Burqha or Niqab are not good looking or don't have a 'figure'. It's hogwash and in all honesty, just something immature men even consider to be factual.

angel*

01-02-08, 01:27 PM

I havnt read the whole thread but what i have read frankly disgusts me.
I dont know how "brothers" cum up with these so-called "ideas" that muslim women dont take care of their appearences, just cuz u may have "seen" or "heard" about a few such women dosnt mean u can go and class all muslimahs in that category! U make it sound like we have absolutley no desire to look or feel good about selves, newsflash - Grow up! For your info we dont spend the whole day looking like tramps, infact ive yet to see such a muslimah. Im not saying they're arnt females like that, just that the majority aint. Bro, u seriosuly need to re-think the info that u have from ur "sources".
As for kafir women are better in bed than muslim women all i have to say is, how many kafir women and muslim women have u married and been with to cum up with statements like that? Did no1 ever tell you never to rely on hearsay bcuz more likely than not its going to be unreliable? Every couple is diffrent just bcuz sum female decide to withold sex from her husbands dosnt mean every1 out there will and if u think that then u seriously need to have a few screws mended. Another newesflash - witholding sex from ur husband isnt allowed, im sure its been posted in this thread sumwhere b4, if not i hope sum1 will cuz i dont have it. I just think its pathetic that based on a few "coments" uv got this weird idea in ur head that muslim women are just stiff boards - women kafir or muslim are women at the end of the day, grow up akhi thats the only advice i have 4 you.

Raashid

01-02-08, 01:37 PM

brother, some Algerian Men are better Muslims than we will ever be and Allahu alam. you have offended just about everyone with this post, if you mean men need marriage then go get married dont be so quick to slander your Muslim brothers whatever their race.

Yeah, that's why I said some...

mfr

01-02-08, 01:41 PM

Raashid

01-02-08, 01:45 PM

ok so according to you the muslim women are just no good, they make lousy wives and they have hairy legs and they dont make any effort so heres the thread for u then lets see if u can find yourself a chaste christian woman who has never had a boyfreind eh and then wait till something goes wrong and she takes your children away from you by court order and half your wealth, half or all of your property and u have to pay her maintainance for years, and these women dont follow islamic rules at all btw so dont expect she will be following anything of your way of life expect a fat x-mas tree to go up , and then theres trudging over to the kufar relatives for new years dinner and easter bank holidays .. so are you willing to compromise your deen because u have some warped idea about the muslim women, consider all that and the muslim women might start to look like a good prospect..

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119371

This is an emotional female response, I never said Muslim woman are not good wives, just that in some Muslim culture in the context of living in this society the needs are not met. It's the whole culture and dynamics at play. Some of the issues you mention are also possible with Muslim women, except for the Christmas tree maybe. Compromising deen is all down to how weak a personality a man has, just being married to a Christian don't mean he gives in to her needs. Anyway, the issues re: Muslim women I mentioned doesn't even apply to you since you're Western yourself, just happen to be Muslim. These are more issues in Muslim communities culture.

Kal-El

01-02-08, 01:59 PM

Considering that zina is a major sin which is easier to fall into then say drinking alcohol, shouldn't Muslims be trying to solve this problem pratcically, rather then just making airy-fairy claims that we should be doing things according to the Sunnah, Sahaba (ra) etc. when it's obvious most Muslims are far too weak in character to have that sort of patience? Any thoughts, from sisters as well as brothers?

The idea of primal instincts, such as in the context of male-female relations e.g. physical attraction and sexual desires, being the focal purpose upon which marriages are founded upon is short-sighted for several reasons that I don't have the energy to get into.

But let me ask you a question. Considering that attraction may lead you to a person (and thus marriage), what are the requirements for that person to stay with you and value the marriage? Is it that attraction which leads to a full and happy marriage? Or is characteristics such as maturity, sensibility, responsibility, friendship and the ability to love the other? Ofcourse it is the later, so when we consider marriage or when we define the dynamics of a relationship in the eyes of public perception - should we not value and prioritise those characteristics, ones that lead to a stable and happy relationship, rather than an aspect that may lead you to a person in the first place?

Ask any happily married male, he'll readily tell you that attraction and sex (although still vital) are less of an issue than it was before he married because now he knows what a relationship is, now he values his wife and her love and her persona more than anything. There is a reason why marriage is ordained for us, despite the fact that not everyone is considered to be attractive, and that is because there are more things we humans value. That is not to say attraction isn't important, but there are other characteristics and they're just as, if not more, important as that.

You know the saying "beauty is skin-deep"? That's to remind us that our idea of "beautiful" is only what we see on the surface, and that we must remember to value and prioritise what is under the skin. Real beauty is under the skin and one day you'll eventually realise that. Anything else is wholly irrelevant

mfr

01-02-08, 02:05 PM

ok so according to you the muslim women are just no good, they make lousy wives and they have hairy legs and they dont make any effort

That is not true and at no point did the brother imply this at all.

This is an emotional female response, I never said Muslim woman are not good wives, just that in some Muslim culture in the context of living in this society the needs are not met. It's the whole culture and dynamics at play. Some of the issues you mention are also possible with Muslim women, except for the Christmas tree maybe. Compromising deen is all down to how weak a personality a man has, just being married to a Christian don't mean he gives in to her needs. Anyway, the issues re: Muslim women I mentioned doesn't even apply to you since you're Western yourself, just happen to be Muslim. These are more issues in Muslim communities culture.

The Muslim culture (unislamic culture) is one of the main causes of problems.

Kal-El

01-02-08, 02:10 PM

Actually 'asiya isn't 'Western'. Just because she wasn't a Muslim to start with doesn't mean shes westernised. She actually shows more enthusiam and devotion to her deen (and to no culture) than 99% of people here. Ironically it's you two who've been affected by cultural baggage looking at your views here.

sis_niqabi

01-02-08, 02:12 PM

These are more issues in Muslim communities culture.

you keep on saying how in muslim countries this is a problem. but what muslim countries are you talking about? i've been to a muslim countries. i have lived in the middle east for almost 10 years now and i've never come across the non-sense you are talking about.

could you please specify which culture are you talking about.

imported_londoner

01-02-08, 02:13 PM

one brother put it perfectly... kafiras like an apple that has been polished, but you cut it open and find it rotten with worms.

just visit any town centre on a fri/sat night and you will see the 'beauty' of the kafiras after they have had a few pints. Makeup running down the face, hair all over the place, cloths torn and legless before ending up in a puddle of vomit.

Raashid

01-02-08, 02:15 PM

you keep on saying how in muslim countries this is a problem. but what muslim countries are you talking about? i've been to a muslim countries. i have lived in the middle east for almost 10 years now and i've never come across the non-sense you are talking about.

could you please specify which culture are you talking about.

Indian sub continent I have seen this issue. I said communties, not countries. There are different issues in those Muslim countries which have also been addressed in the thread related to finances.

sis_niqabi

01-02-08, 02:18 PM

Indian sub continent I have seen this issue. I said communties, not countries. There are different issues in those Muslim countries which have also been addressed in the thread related to finances.

ok maybe that does happen in some communities. but the way you are writing in you post it's like you are saying all muslimahs are like that and only western women know how to dress themeselves up and please their men.

angel*

01-02-08, 02:21 PM

Morris

01-02-08, 02:21 PM

sis_niqabi

01-02-08, 02:23 PM

I can't of course offer a correct Islamic perspective but for any marriage surely if it is based on sex then it is doomed. What about when we get older, or when 'the bloom fades'. There has to be more a real relationship. For people of faith a mutual understanding is necessary.

this what im saying. one cannot have a marriage for life that is just based on lust. if one's spouse gains weight due to an illness or develops a deformity. then what?

JayC

01-02-08, 02:28 PM

Thats how its cuming across to me, ive no idea where this bro's got his ideas from but they sure need updating

i think this brother summed it up here ukhti

Ironically it's you two who've been affected by cultural baggage looking at your views here.

i agree Morris.

ikhwan to think your views are so off that even a non-believer answered with a more islamic viewpoint, is sad for you isnt it?

in the reasons to marry by the prophet :saw: there is wealth, beauty, lineage.... is just intimacy a reason? or is intimacy one aspect that should be there in a marriage regardless. now look back at all your posts and see how far you dragged this tripe.

my last post here, i get mad whenever i read nonsense.

mfr

01-02-08, 02:39 PM

ok maybe that does happen in some communities. but the way you are writing in you post it's like you are saying all muslimahs are like that and only western women know how to dress themeselves up and please their men.

No not all Muslimahs are like that! The Muslim women are far superior to kafir western women.
It is mainly the Indian sub-continent and other Muslim communities that these views are strongly upheld. Muslim sisters are trapped in these cultures/communities due to their upbringing, parents, and culture/communities. Therefore, the issues mentioned exists.

angel*

01-02-08, 02:40 PM

this what im saying. one cannot have a marriage for life that is just based on lust. if one's spouse gains weight due to an illness or develops a deformity. then what?

women put on weight when they're pregnant

mfr

01-02-08, 03:04 PM

this what im saying. one cannot have a marriage for life that is just based on lust.

Agreed.

I can't of course offer a correct Islamic perspective but for any marriage surely if it is based on sex then it is doomed

Yes, but some of them would rather prefer a string of unsuccessful marriages than being in a unhappy long-term relationship.

sis_niqabi

01-02-08, 03:08 PM

No not all Muslimahs are like that! The Muslim women are far superior to kafir western women.
It is mainly the Indian sub-continent and other Muslim communities that these views are strongly upheld. Muslim sisters are trapped in these cultures/communities due to their upbringing, parents, and culture/communities. Therefore, the issues mentioned exists.

but even in India this is not a problem. out of all the indian sisters i've met none of them had thinking like this. most of them are well dressed and made up. so it must be women in some villages you are talking about.

and this type of thinking must be rare. because i've never heard such non-sense like this in my life.

GuCcI

01-02-08, 03:17 PM

but even in India this is not a problem. out of all the indian sisters i've met none of them had thinking like this. most of them are well dressed and made up. so it must be women in some villages you are talking about.

and this type of thinking must be rare. because i've never heard such non-sense like this in my life.

yeah it sounds like mostly village talk cuz women in the village are busier with a ton of other villagey things to do, like ive seen how hard my aunts and cousins work to keep their families running, its not easy. 'taking care of yourself' isnt even on the priority list.

Raashid

01-02-08, 03:17 PM

but even in India this is not a problem. out of all the indian sisters i've met none of them had thinking like this. most of them are well dressed and made up. so it must be women in some villages you are talking about.

and this type of thinking must be rare. because i've never heard such non-sense like this in my life.

Like I said earlier, maybe your just of a higher class of people but most Muslims are from village background.

mfr

01-02-08, 03:18 PM

i've never heard such non-sense like this in my life.

What exactly is "nonsense"?

Raashid

01-02-08, 03:19 PM

I can't of course offer a correct Islamic perspective but for any marriage surely if it is based on sex then it is doomed. What about when we get older, or when 'the bloom fades'. There has to be more a real relationship. For people of faith a mutual understanding is necessary.

Yeah but in our communtiy the marriage isn't even based on that, it's based on family, community status etc.
At least if you marry someone for sex you get the pleasure of that for as long as it lasts, but in the tradiotnal mariages of ours you don't even get that, just 40 years of misery and putting on a charade.

sis_niqabi

01-02-08, 03:20 PM

Like I said earlier, maybe your just of a higher class of people but most Muslims are from village background.

where are getting that most muslims come from village backgrounds? and maybe these sisters in the villages cannot get waxed and wear make up because they cannot afford it. did you ever think of that?

and by the way i don't come from a high class family.

RashidD

01-02-08, 03:22 PM

Yeah but in our communtiy the marriage isn't even based on that, it's based on family, community status etc.
At least if you marry someone for sex you get the pleasure of that for as long as it lasts, but in the tradiotnal mariages of ours you don't even get that, just 40 years of misery and putting on a charade.

This is not the way marriage is supposed to be. Muslims have a textbook for a successful marriage i.e. Qur'an and Sunnah.

Anyone who insults the Sunnah of marriage is looking for a solid clap from my size 12 chappal*.

*Ok it's a leather slipper but chappal sounds better. And that's UK size 12 too.

mfr

01-02-08, 03:25 PM

yeah it sounds like mostly village talk cuz women in the village are busier with a ton of other villagey things to do, like ive seen how hard my aunts and cousins work to keep their families running, its not easy. 'taking care of yourself' isnt even on the priority list.

Most of them have the “village” mentality even though they live in England. It has nothing to do with doing “ton of other villagey things”. Most of these Muslims are backwards and uncivilised due to the absence of Islam.

Fitnah Bolice

01-02-08, 03:29 PM

If men could fulfil their base carnal desires without marriage in a Halal way, in all honesty they would not need to get married. So let's not kid ourselves and say that marriage isn't for sex, for the most part it is. Yes there are secondary objectives of marriage, companionship etc but if the primary objective could be fulfilled elsewhere in a halal fashion (unfortunately it can't) then marriage would not be a necessity.

This is why Islam says it is completing half the deen, because it means one can enjoy conjugal relations in a halal manner.

Why did rasul :saw: tell the men of his ummah to fast if they cannot get married, because it reduces their sexual desire.

Sex is not the be all and end all of a marriage, but in my opinion it is more than 50% of the the reason why practicisng muslim men get married.

Raashid

01-02-08, 03:29 PM

i think this brother summed it up here ukhti

i agree Morris.

ikhwan to think your views are so off that even a non-believer answered with a more islamic viewpoint, is sad for you isnt it?

in the reasons to marry by the prophet :saw: there is wealth, beauty, lineage.... is just intimacy a reason? or is intimacy one aspect that should be there in a marriage regardless. now look back at all your posts and see how far you dragged this tripe.

my last post here, i get mad whenever i read nonsense.

Who says it's a more Islamic response? Just because it's lovey-dovey feel good response it doesn't mean it reflects reality. I didn't drag this tripe anywhere, enough people reponded to it for me to not drag anything.

Raashid

01-02-08, 03:35 PM

QUOTE=Fitnah Bolice;2396324]If men could fulfil their base carnal desires without marriage in a Halal way, in all honesty they would not need to get married. So let's not kid ourselves and say that marriage isn't for sex, for the most part it is. Yes there are secondary objectives of marriage, companionship etc but if the primary objective could be fulfilled elsewhere in a halal fashion (unfortunately it can't) then marriage would not be a necessity.

This is why Islam says it is completing half the deen, because it means one can enjoy conjugal relations in a halal manner.

Why did rasul :saw: tell the men of his ummah to fast if they cannot get married, because it reduces their sexual desire.

Sex is not the be all and end all of a marriage, but in my opinion it is more than 50% of the the reason why practicisng muslim men get married.[/QUOTE]

:up: Someone who gets it. If