View Full Version : You are blessed 2 wonderful twin babies, and then...
Arsalan
13-01-08, 02:16 PM
YOU KILL YOURSELF...
Post natal depression is impossible to understand...
Mother of twin girls kills herself
By Lucy Cockcroft and Richard Edwards
Last Updated: 2:47am GMT 11/01/2008
A mother suffering from post-natal depression killed herself by stepping in front of a lorry on a motorway two weeks after giving birth to twins.
Heather Finkill, 30, who left her husband Ryan and their baby girls, Lacey May and Isobel Rose, sleeping at dawn last week, committed suicide on the M3 near the family home in Farnborough, Hants, while still wearing her pyjamas.
Mr Finkill, 38, who is said to be "numb with grief", had to make a lone journey to register the names of the twins yesterday.
His father, Bill, 69, told The Daily Telegraph: "It was supposed to be a happy day but you can imagine he is absolutely devastated to be making the trip alone.
"We have learned that Heather was suffering from post-natal depression, but we just didn't know about it until this happened. We knew something was not quite right and she had been to see the doctor, but it was not diagnosed."
Police are interviewing health professionals about the treatment that Mrs Finkill, who was being visited regularly by midwives, was receiving for post-natal depression. She was due to be visited on the day that she killed herself.
Sgt Paul Plews, of Farnborough Police, said yesterday: "Our investigation would show that there were some signs, but there was no indication that she was planning to take her own life.
"It seems the medical profession were doing everything they could."
Mrs Finkill gave birth to the twins by caesarean section at Frimley Park Hospital, Surrey, on Dec 19.
Mr Finkill, who is a decorator, had last seen his wife at 5am on Jan 2 when he got up to feed the twins before going back to sleep.
When he woke to find that she was not in the house, he immediately rang police and began searching for her, later learning that her body had been found on the motorway.
He released a statement yesterday saying: "The loss of our beautiful Heather has devastated our family.
"No words can describe how we are feeling. We are numb with pure grief.
"Heather was my soul mate and a devoted wife. She leaves behind her twin baby girls.
"Heather was a kind and giving person who was loved so much by her family and many friends.
"How she came to die will be something we may never come to terms with.
"We wish to pass our thanks to everyone who tried to help Heather."
Dozens of floral tributes have been laid on a bridge over the M3 close to where Mrs Finkill, a bank clerk, died. Sgt Plews said: "This is an exceptionally traumatic and tragic incident which has torn apart a very loving family. Heather and Ryan Finkill were both overjoyed to have their first children.
"There is nothing suspicious about Heather's death but one of the lines we have to follow is a medical inquiry… we have to ask whether there was post-natal depression.
"What has happened has hit the Frimley Park maternity section very hard.
"Our investigation would seem to show they are an exceptionally professional group of people who have done everything they can to support the family.
"On the morning of Heather's death they were due to make a regular visit and as soon as they heard what had happened there were people there offering support."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/11/nsuicide111.xml
in_exile
13-01-08, 03:31 PM
bro u got issues.....*outta*
postpartum depression (http://www.muslimfamilytoday.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=74&PID=103#103) is a serious problem for women
Arsalan
13-01-08, 04:10 PM
postpartum depression (http://www.muslimfamilytoday.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=74&PID=103#103) is a serious problem for women
Why do they get it, can it be stopped, or lessened???
Cristiana
13-01-08, 05:05 PM
I think it's the crazy levels of hormones, taking their time to adjust themselves to the post pregnancy balance...
I'm pretty sure here in UK a woman would be seen periodically after giving birth to make sure she's doing ok and - among other things - administer a questionnaire to detect depression.
Scary though. The though that not even the blessing of a new healthy child can make you bear the thought of living. May Allah protect us all (and our wives) from depression!
Why do they get it, can it be stopped, or lessened???
it depends on the severity of the problem. Sometimes some counseling and time is all that is needed. the more severe cases may require medication. from what I understand is it is primarily a problem with hormones.
Medievalist
13-01-08, 05:24 PM
May ALLAH Ta'ala grant mental, physical and spiritual well being to all sisters who are mothers or mothers to be or women in general - ameen
it depends on the severity of the problem. Sometimes some counseling and time is all that is needed. the more severe cases may require medication. from what I understand is it is primarily a problem with hormones.
how do u get it?
It simply happens after pregnancy when a woman experiences rapid hormone changes. Sometimes these changes dont go back to normal and remain after birth. Which is why it is called 'postpardum' depression.
It takes time for these rapid changes to return to normal and in some women they can be quite severe. Even moreso they sometimes dont go back to normal. It depends on a womans physiology.
.: Anna :.
13-01-08, 06:45 PM
May ALLAH Ta'ala grant mental, physical and spiritual well being to all sisters who are mothers or mothers to be or women in general - ameenaameen
Syrian714
13-01-08, 07:11 PM
Assalamu Alaikum.
Post-partum depression is indeed a very real and serious condition, HOWEVER I have no sympathy for this woman because she could have gotten help from her doctor as soon as she began feeling odd.
It's really very simple. If you ever feel so terrible that you want to kill yourself and praying cannot even relieve those feelings, then you clearly have a chemical imbalance going on in your brain and you need to see a doctor so he can give you temporary medication and therapy to fix it. The solution is NOT to end the life Allah gave you and leave your beautiful twin daughters and husband behind to forever mourn you.
I know this sounds harsh but I am a student of a health profession and I have studied post-partum depression and chronic depression extensively. Plenty of women suffer through this after giving birth and many of them survive it because they seek help from their community and, if need be, their doctor. The help is there and if you don't take advantage of it, then shame on you.
Al-Farooq
13-01-08, 07:12 PM
May ALLAH Ta'ala grant mental, physical and spiritual well being to all sisters who are mothers or mothers to be or women in general - ameen
Ameen.
The mother of my daughter had extremely severe post-partum depression....with disastrous consequences.
Don't underestimate it....it can be brutal.
Arsalan
13-01-08, 07:17 PM
Ameen.
The mother of my daughter had extremely severe post-partum depression....with disastrous consequences.
Don't underestimate it....it can be brutal.
Iam sorry to hear that i hope she gets better, and allah grants her good health in all respects ameen.
Is there anything a man can do if he is faced with this situation? I mean would you have to leave your job? Can relatives help? Can holidays help?
dhakiyya
13-01-08, 07:39 PM
Why do they get it, can it be stopped, or lessened???
Post natal depression is a chemical imbalance - all of the suggestions below can help prevent it (and help stave it off in the early stages) but if someone does get it it doesn't mean they were not well supported or that their family could have done more. And if someone is well supported and has lots of help it doesn't mean you should not be concerned if they have symptoms of depression.
what a husband can do inshaAllah:
be as supportive as you can to your wife after she has babies. Help her with the housework or even better try to get someone else that can keep the house in order whilst the baby is very small
If she had a difficult birth or a c-section, make sure she gets proper rest and time to recover.
Make sure she gets plenty of sunlight, take her for walks in the park for example, if she had a c-section, you push the pram and take it slowly. When at home, make her keep the curtains open when its daylight outside. If its winter, be strict about having her get out every day whilst its light. The rest of the time she should rest and concentrate on breastfeeding.
make sure she eats good healthy meals regularly, and plenty of healthy snacks and plenty of water so she can make lots of milk and also get enough nutrition herself. If that means you cooking or getting someone in to cook, or to prepare meals for you both and bring them round inshaAllah you should.
Make sure she gets some exercise which is appropriate to her condition. Start with just walking, then pushing the pram and as she recovers from the birth inshaAllah she can get back into her previous exercise routine (or a better one!)
Make sure she gets time to socialise with other women, especially other mothers - preferably Muslims! Be careful about inviting everyone round or having too many visits because she'll get tired, but try to ensure that she's socialising.
Let her spend time with her mum, especially if mum is helping round the house and with the baby too. Mums are an invaluable source of advice and support when you have a baby cause they've been there and done that and can tell you you did the same when you were a baby lol.
Spend lots of time just the two of you and the baby, just being parents. Its very hard work, but its also enjoyable and you should enjoy it together inshaAllah, like cooing at the baby together.
Try to do some of the night time things for her, e.g. changing nappies. If she's breastfeeding you can't really help her with this but you can give her a hug so she knows your're there and you appreciate her, you can give her cushions to make sure she's comfortable and maybe put a blanket round her shoulders to make sure she's not cold. And very importantly make sure she has enough water as breastfeeding makes you very thirsty. If she wants to express some milk into a bottle, you could do one of the night feeds whilst she catches up on sleep inshaAllah.
If you are worried that she is always down, crying a lot, doesn't seem to be enjoying being a mum, is always scared for the baby (all new mums are anxious about the baby, but if it seems like much more fear and anxiety than normal) contact your GP or health visitor to have a chat with your wife, they can see if she's actualy depressed or not, or just tired and hormonal. InshaAllah if she does get depression its best to nip it in the bud. If you suspect your wife is becoming depressed, don't just wait and see, chat with the health visitor. They're trained to help inshaAllah.
Al-Farooq
13-01-08, 07:41 PM
Excellent advice, Dhakiyya.
Just to add to the above...
If it appears to be serious, urge her to seek professional help. If she refuses, which is a distinct possibility, drag her there if you have to....she will thank you in the long run insha'Allah.
It can vary wildly in severity, but you will know if it's serious....it's quite disturbing. Insha'Allah you will never find out for yourself.
May ALLAH Ta'ala grant mental, physical and spiritual well being to all sisters who are mothers or mothers to be or women in general - ameen
Ameen. Tragic.
:(
ummbilal
14-01-08, 04:59 AM
Post natal depression is something we cannot prevent except with duas inshaallah and general good health, its more commen in mothers of twins probably because of the shear volume of work involved, its heart breaking that this mother has left her babies without a mum.
Inshaallah we will be protected from post natal depression.
It can feel utterly helpless, even though u have this beautiful little baby, subhannallah it must be hard for the fathers to understand, the best thing a father can do other than all the things Dhkayya suggests, is to watch for the signs of depression, and tell a midwife etc.. that u r deeply concerned about your wife, postnatal depression can very often go undiagnosed and women put it down to tiredness or simply dont want to make a fuss, personally i just thought there was something wrong with me as a person to feel so down for no reason.
Treatment is very effective and helpful.
also to get my own therioes in, a mother who has a natural birth with low use of pain relief..ie no epidural tend to feel better about herself after the birth than a mum who has servious intervention like a c section which can prevent the natural hormones of birth being released.
Allahualam
If she has twins does that mean her post natal depression will be worse? or the amount of babies doesn't impact the level of depression?
I heard some freaky stuff like they hate the baby and stuff like that :(
.: Anna :.
14-01-08, 03:00 PM
brother with twins it is more hard work, and get even less sleep and time etc so especially if it is their first babies they can be overwhelmed even more with two so that can increase the likelihood of this kind of thing from what i have heard, esp if they don't have much or enough support
If she has twins does that mean her post natal depression will be worse? or the amount of babies doesn't impact the level of depression?
I heard some freaky stuff like they hate the baby and stuff like that :(
ummbilal
14-01-08, 07:07 PM
If she has twins does that mean her post natal depression will be worse? or the amount of babies doesn't impact the level of depression?
I heard some freaky stuff like they hate the baby and stuff like that :(
they dont hate the baby, more they havent bonded with the baby properly, a ceserian section is major surgery, imagine you have had major surgery you are feeling weak and in pain, you feel sad and yet you still have to get up every 2 hours day and night to care for a baby who seems always to cry, this is how a depressed mother feels.:(
inshaallah no sister will suffer this.
Its very important to ensure she has help available to her when she needs it.
In certain communities the new mother has older women around her to help her recover (be it physically or emotionally/mentally) not like how it is here whereby you have your kid and then are plonked with him/her and left at home for hours on end alone! (yeah so the health worker pops in every now and again its not quite the same thing)
Sometimes PND can be hormonal, sometimes its due to being overwhelmed with everything and not having enough support or perhaps it is even because the mother hasnt bonded with the baby/doesn't know how to.
Pills aren't the answer to everything.
Pills aren't the answer to everything.
True. Its best to get doctors opinion and make the decision based on that.
ummbilal
14-01-08, 07:45 PM
sister, people with family around and all the love and support u can imagine suffer from postnatal depression.
Al-Farooq
14-01-08, 07:50 PM
they dont hate the baby, more they havent bonded with the baby properly
I think it depends upon the severity of the depression.
For periods of her depression, my daughters' mother blamed our daughter (and myself, to a lesser extent) for what was happening to her. During these times she ignored our daughter and neglected her needs to such an extent that I eventually left her and returned to England with my daughter ....after all attempts at helping her had failed.
In the months before I left, she became paranoid and violent (towards me, not our daughter) and the doctors diagnosed her as having had a nervous breakdown, in addition to the post-partum depression. She would fly into violent rages and accuse me of having affairs, which I never did and never would.
The last straw was when I was awoke in the middle of the night by my ex with a large kitchen knife pushed up against my throat. She was convinced I was sleeping with a friend of ours and threatened to kill me if I didn't confess. I will never forget the look in her eye - vacant, yet burning with hatred. By the will of Allah, I managed to disarm her and calm her down. Later that day, I left the house with my daughter and returned to England.
This was almost 9 years ago, when my daughter was a year old. In that time my ex has recovered somewhat, medically speaking, but her personality has changed forever. She has gone from a caring mother to an utterly selfish woman. I can count on one hand the amount of times she has contacted my daughter and she doesn't seem to care for our daughter at all.
I know my experience is extreme, but think of it as a cautionary tale. Like I said earlier, don't underestimate this condition, it can have disastrous consequences for your whole family.
Asalaamu alaykum.
.: Anna :.
14-01-08, 07:57 PM
subhanallah that is really sad to hear bro :(
ummbilal
14-01-08, 08:01 PM
I think it depends upon the severity of the depression.
For periods of her depression, my daughters' mother blamed our daughter (and myself, to a lesser extent) for what was happening to her. During these times she ignored our daughter and neglected her needs to such an extent that I eventually left her and returned to England with my daughter ....after all attempts at helping her had failed.
In the months before I left, she became paranoid and violent (towards me, not our daughter) and the doctors diagnosed her as having had a nervous breakdown, in addition to the post-partum depression. She would fly into violent rages and accuse me of having affairs, which I never did and never would.
The last straw was when I was awoke in the middle of the night by my ex with a large kitchen knife pushed up against my throat. She was convinced I was sleeping with a friend of ours and threatened to kill me if I didn't confess. I will never forget the look in her eye - vacant, yet burning with hatred. By the will of Allah, I managed to disarm her and calm her down. Later that day, I left the house with my daughter and returned to England.
This was almost 9 years ago, when my daughter was a year old. In that time my ex has recovered somewhat, medically speaking, but her personality has changed forever. She has gone from a caring mother to an utterly selfish woman. I can count on one hand the amount of times he has contacted my daughter and she doesn't seem to care for our daughter at all.
I know my experience is extreme, but think of it as a cautionary tale. Like I said earlier, don't underestimate this condition, it can have disastrous consequences for your whole family.
Asalaamu alaykum.
subhannallah brother it sounds like your ex wife is severly mentally disturbed, this may have been triggered by postnatal depression but it sounds like it was probably something deeper,
Allhumdulilah u have your daughter with you, inshaallah her mother will be guided,
I want to make it clear to all the sisters esspecially those expecting babies, that this is a very extreem and rare case, mothers often feel down and some suffer depression but to kill yourself or neglect your child is extreem, pills can very sucessfully treat and overcome depression and St Johns Wort is a very good natural drug for this.
Please dont worry about this as worry isnt good for u or your babies,everyhting is in the hands of Allah, make your duas and dont worry.:inlove:
Al-Farooq
14-01-08, 08:14 PM
subhannallah brother it sounds like your ex wife is severly mentally disturbed, this may have been triggered by postnatal depression but it sounds like it was probably something deeper,
I have thought the same myself - there may have been a mental illness that hadn't actually manifested itself until it was triggered by the post-partum.
I must state again that this was obviously an extreme case and, from what I understand, the vast majority of PPD/PND can be successfully treated and will not cause such extreme problems as the one's in my experience. I hope I didn't worry anyone unduly, but I think it does no harm to be aware of all possible eventualities.
subhanallah that is really sad to hear bro :(The important thing is my daughter wasn't hurt or affected negatively by the experience. She was too young to remember and has grown up to be a happy, healthy and intelligent child and long may that continue insha'Allah.
Pro_Candy
14-01-08, 09:11 PM
Assalamu Alaikum.
Post-partum depression is indeed a very real and serious condition, HOWEVER I have no sympathy for this woman because she could have gotten help from her doctor as soon as she began feeling odd.
It's really very simple. If you ever feel so terrible that you want to kill yourself and praying cannot even relieve those feelings, then you clearly have a chemical imbalance going on in your brain and you need to see a doctor so he can give you temporary medication and therapy to fix it. The solution is NOT to end the life Allah gave you and leave your beautiful twin daughters and husband behind to forever mourn you.
I know this sounds harsh but I am a student of a health profession and I have studied post-partum depression and chronic depression extensively. Plenty of women suffer through this after giving birth and many of them survive it because they seek help from their community and, if need be, their doctor. The help is there and if you don't take advantage of it, then shame on you.
You're a student of a health profession, but are you a mother? Have you ever been through child birth? You have no idea of it till you have been there. Many women are physically and/or mentally unable to seek help.
Shame on who? Her? What about the people around her who knew something was wrong, but didn't act on it? Obviously her mentality was not right, she was not in her right mind. She was unable to think logically about her actions. Is this her fault?
I don't think you should judge this woman, esp if you've never had postpartum depression, or even worse, postpartum psychosis (http://www.pregnancy-info.net/postpartum_psychosis.html).
You're a student of a health profession, but are you a mother? Have you ever been through child birth? You have no idea of it till you have been there. Many women are physically and/or mentally unable to seek help.
Shame on who? Her? What about the people around her who knew something was wrong, but didn't act on it? Obviously her mentality was not right, she was not in her right mind. She was unable to think logically about her actions. Is this her fault?
I don't think you should judge this woman, esp if you've never had postpartum depression, or even worse, postpartum psychosis (http://www.pregnancy-info.net/postpartum_psychosis.html).
A good insight
I think it depends upon the severity of the depression.
For periods of her depression, my daughters' mother blamed our daughter (and myself, to a lesser extent) for what was happening to her. During these times she ignored our daughter and neglected her needs to such an extent that I eventually left her and returned to England with my daughter ....after all attempts at helping her had failed.
In the months before I left, she became paranoid and violent (towards me, not our daughter) and the doctors diagnosed her as having had a nervous breakdown, in addition to the post-partum depression. She would fly into violent rages and accuse me of having affairs, which I never did and never would.
The last straw was when I was awoke in the middle of the night by my ex with a large kitchen knife pushed up against my throat. She was convinced I was sleeping with a friend of ours and threatened to kill me if I didn't confess. I will never forget the look in her eye - vacant, yet burning with hatred. By the will of Allah, I managed to disarm her and calm her down. Later that day, I left the house with my daughter and returned to England.
This was almost 9 years ago, when my daughter was a year old. In that time my ex has recovered somewhat, medically speaking, but her personality has changed forever. She has gone from a caring mother to an utterly selfish woman. I can count on one hand the amount of times she has contacted my daughter and she doesn't seem to care for our daughter at all.
I know my experience is extreme, but think of it as a cautionary tale. Like I said earlier, don't underestimate this condition, it can have disastrous consequences for your whole family.
Asalaamu alaykum.
Subhanallah!
Alhamdulillah that you are alive and well.
May Allah swt bring up your daughter a pious daughter and find you a wife that fills your heart with love and care and doesnt cause you one day of sadness, by being un-reasonable or difficult or not understanding.
dhakiyya
15-01-08, 11:45 AM
You're a student of a health profession, but are you a mother? Have you ever been through child birth? You have no idea of it till you have been there. Many women are physically and/or mentally unable to seek help.
Shame on who? Her? What about the people around her who knew something was wrong, but didn't act on it? Obviously her mentality was not right, she was not in her right mind. She was unable to think logically about her actions. Is this her fault?
I don't think you should judge this woman, esp if you've never had postpartum depression, or even worse, postpartum psychosis (http://www.pregnancy-info.net/postpartum_psychosis.html).
Good post :up:
The trouble with mental illness is it affects your ability to think rationally. So you can't blame a mentally ill person for not thinking or behaving rationally.
This is why it is very important for everyone, mothers, fathers, grandparents, health professionals, the community, to know what post natal depression is and when to seek help advice inshaAllah.
its not been mentioned yet on this thread, but needs to be, occasionally men can get post natal depression. In his case its not hormonal, but brought on by the stress and pressure of being a new father - fathers have many of the same pressures as mothers, and they also have to look after the new mother as well as the new baby. If his wife had a difficult and/or long labour, emergency c-section, other complications, he can be left feeling traumatised seeing the woman he loves go through all this, and all the stress and worry of waiting, not knowing what will happen. He may have been afraid for the life of his wife and his child. This of course can contribute to depression!
So whilst it usually happens to mothers, please be aware that it can happen to fathers too. At the moment its underdiagnosed due to lack of knowledge about it.
Syrian714
15-01-08, 03:35 PM
You're a student of a health profession, but are you a mother? Have you ever been through child birth? You have no idea of it till you have been there. Many women are physically and/or mentally unable to seek help.
Shame on who? Her? What about the people around her who knew something was wrong, but didn't act on it? Obviously her mentality was not right, she was not in her right mind. She was unable to think logically about her actions. Is this her fault?
I don't think you should judge this woman, esp if you've never had postpartum depression, or even worse, postpartum psychosis (http://www.pregnancy-info.net/postpartum_psychosis.html).
Please refrain from judging me by assuming that I have not experienced anything similar to what this woman has gone through. In fact, I am severely insulted by your insinuation that I have no idea what this woman experienced. Maybe you should've considered that I didn't give my personal life story because it is not the business of anyone on these forums.
I'm sorry that I seem cold-hearted for not being able to have sympathy for a woman who, ultimately, put herself before her children and her family. I just can't do it, though. If anything, I find myself feeling sympathetic for her poor twins who will be raised without their mother and her husband who must now live without his beloved wife, pondering every day if he could've done something to help her if only she would've come to him for help rather than take the easy way out. SubhanAllah, she had a temporary, fixable chemical imbalance. I know of people with schizophrenia who live normal, healthy lives! NO EXCUSE.
Arrakis
15-01-08, 03:54 PM
how do u get it?
By having a baby lol ;)
Arrakis
15-01-08, 03:55 PM
I'm sorry that I seem cold-hearted for not being able to have sympathy for a woman who, ultimately, put herself before her children and her family. I just can't do it, though. If anything, I find myself feeling sympathetic for her poor twins who will be raised without their mother and her husband who must now live without his beloved wife, pondering every day if he could've done something to help her if only she would've come to him for help rather than take the easy way out. SubhanAllah, she had a temporary, fixable chemical imbalance. I know of people with schizophrenia who live normal, healthy lives! NO EXCUSE.
:rolleyes: Oh yes, in her madness she would have had the rationality to realise that, good to see the old 2 + 2 = 5 is still as strong as ever in some lol
muslimma
15-01-08, 04:48 PM
ameen to the du'as may allah protect us fromit :love:
sunrise
15-01-08, 04:58 PM
postpartum depression (http://www.muslimfamilytoday.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=74&PID=103#103) is a serious problem for women
that's why immediate family and husbands need 2 give her as much support as thy can! post pregnancy is a mjor sensative time 4 women
sister, people with family around and all the love and support u can imagine suffer from postnatal depression.
Sometimes its not always down to hormonal changes.
.: Anna :.
15-01-08, 07:02 PM
can I just remind people, please do refrain from arguing... i'm sure noone intends to insult one and other. we normally keep parenting section free from arguing :up:
Syrian714
15-01-08, 10:16 PM
can I just remind people, please do refrain from arguing... i'm sure noone intends to insult one and other. we normally keep parenting section free from arguing :up:
Sorry sis, I just wanted to defend myself. I'm not going to make anymore comments on this as people obviously know how I feel about it and insha'Allah others will show me the same respect and let it go.
May Allah watch over and protect the father and two babies who were left behind.
Noor_Usman
15-01-08, 10:34 PM
Sorry sis, I just wanted to defend myself. I'm not going to make anymore comments on this as people obviously know how I feel about it and insha'Allah others will show me the same respect and let it go.
May Allah watch over and protect the father and two babies who were left behind.
Ameen sis.
that's why immediate family and husbands need 2 give her as much support as thy can! post pregnancy is a mjor sensative time 4 women
Of course! The problem is that many people dont recognize the symptoms in their spouses, sometimes themselves. Support varies from moral support of a spouse to clinical support if the problem is severe enough to have a detrimental impact on the woman and her family.
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