Marriage to convert. To do or not to do?

[anonymousmind]

Assalamu Alaikum

Basically stating I had met this girl about 11months ago. She has now Al-hamdullilah has converted to Islam.


I had gone through a lot for this girl. Even when she wanted to do the same wrongs with me I told her no and stood by her and showed her right from wrong. I tried and always be there for her. I pushed her into doing right and avoiding the bad. I taught her how things like porn, masterbution, drinking etc is wrong and indecent.

I always saw a decency in her and I always believe in her. I always trusted her and her feelings for me. I always saw innate qualities that I thought 1day inshallah she will be muslimah. I gave her many of my firsts, things I held dearly onto.

However this girl has a past that I was extremely uncomfortable with. She had told me all the intimate details (plus I saw photos) because of my probing and her lies never matching. It caused me a lot of heartache and I cried many many times not only for what she put herself through but the indecency and immorality of it and how meaningless it was. It broke me apart. The indecency of it all was just shocking to me and disgusting.

Then I started questioning what do I mean to her? I mean for a woman to have had 5 BF and 2 sleeping partners etc would I LOVE YOU mean anything? Would anything I gave her or she took mean anything to her? She had repeatedly told me lies about her past. She had also many times given me hope in the form of telling me that she hadnt done this thing or that thing or never said I LOVE YOU to anybody else. All turned out to be lies.

I gave her many many islamic books, stood by her and taught her. Finally she converted and became a muslimah 1 month ago and she actually got tears in her eyes when she got to the point "and god will forgive all my past sins". I was sooooo proud of her then. Even after coming out of the mosque she walked down the street proud with a radiant face and wearing a Hijab though I told her she can take it off. I was soooo happy for her and proud of her.

However my brain being a smarty and a thinker couldnt stop. I hate it when Im lied to and especially when things dont make sense. So even after her conversion I kept quizzing her about her past etc. Finally all the truths came out. ALL of it. There is nothing I can do with her that some other losers easily havent done. She isnt a virgin. She was indecent and immoral. And theres nothing she can do for me that she hasnt already done even the 1 thing she kept saying she lied about and she had told others I LOVE YOU.

Once I got all the information and everything fit my mind calmed down. I started thinking rationally. This girl cant give me anything she hasnt given others cheaply. It took me a long time to realise but I finally got to the point where I could try and move past her past.

However I also realised that I had damaged her by quizzing her after her shahada (however she had lied and the lies never fit and my brain wouldnt stop thinking). I cried for the hurt and damage that may have caused (if infact her conversion was pure) and I apologised to her many times.

In the meanwhile we were engaged to be married. But now things are coatic and uncertain. I gave her everything I had within my heart and stood by her when no other man would have ONLY based on the kindness, sweetness, loneliness, sadness I saw in her and her ability to change. I had mentioned once not to wear perfume outside and she stopped. I had told her not to shake hands with men and she has refrained. She isnt comfortable with porn anymore and says and has cried that she is ashamed of her sordid past.

We are what you might call opposites. Im strong confident secure capable strong backbone shes weak, unconfident, insecure, little backbone and homewise incapable(cant cook cant clean cant do anything whereas I can do it all). However I always believed in her. I really cant explain why but I always believed in her and saw goodness even when she didnt see it.

Now her parents arent muslim and are actually a negative influence on her.
They think im a kind of a loser for still being a virgin 26yrsold.
They think I manipulate and confuse their daughter and brainwash her.
They dont like me and frankly I dont like them.

When I kept quizzing her after her shahada I took a break for a few days from her and drove to her house secretly 3 times just to see what she was wearing and if we could talk. She wasnt wearing a scarf each time(if she had I would have been soooo happy) and I felt so sad and heartbroken. Later she said she wears her scarf on the way to work and back but not too well at work and wears a long skirt(work uniform) and takes scarf off whilst walking back home so neighbours dont say anything.
In the meanwhile she had broken down and told her parents why because of her past. Her parents enrage the hell out of me. They are responsible atleast partly for her screwed up past by encouraging her to drink so early underage. And they think its fine for her to have done whatever and I shouldnt have asked about her past ESPECIALLY because shes a woman. AS THOUGH SAYING ITS PERFECTLY FINE FOR YOU TO SLEEP AROUND ETC AND FOR ME NOT TO ASK ABOUT IT SIMPLY BECAUSE YOUR A WOMAN?!!!! ANd they dont know the whole story either. They have no idea how much they damaged her, how much indecent immoral bad things she did, What bad thing happened to her, how she had lived her life etc (maybe theyd then even be shocked and feel ashamed).

Now they are basically telling her if she chooses me shell have no home to return to. Shell be on her own if I dump her or divorce her. I have told her I will try my best with her in marriage but like in life there is no guarantees. They even told her that maybe we should live together first and then see WTF@!

And she told me they want to see me again and ask me questions. Itll be more like an inappropriate interrogation ( i already asked her hand from them way back and they asked me questions like how much do you love her? what does she mean to you?). Though I told her for her I would do it now thinking about it I shouldnt. The questions theyll ask would be inappropriate and further I might get angry lose my temper and ask them questions, ask them if they know what parenthood means, ask them if they know what she has been through and specifically what she has done etc.

I had tried to do istikahrah but twice nothing happened. Once (no istikahrah) I saw a dream in which we were both together happily married with kids dancing around.


So now she has asked for time to think about things. Shes feeling shes being torn apart by her parents and me.

I am now thinking because of how bad an influence they are and how much issues they can cause to tell her to pick either her parents or me. For her I gave a lot and spent a lot and stood by her and cared for her and came back to her country a few times and taught her right from wrong, and gave her my firsts etc but when I think about it seems mostly in her favour I get nothing she hasnt given away, I get no great cook or anything else. Only how I felt about her and what I saw in her has kept me here. Sometimes some of her actions or lack of them including her lack of backbone even now makes me question if she converted for me or for her own sake? I kept telling her conversion is for her and she seemed sincere at that time maybe.

For her sake I gave up a lot. For her sake Im willing to try even though Id give up on my dream to marry a virgin like me. And not to mention her whole vivid sordid past with photos and all.

Any sane man I think would have walked away a long long long time ago. She had lots of issues, baggage, problems, indecencies etc. And now her parents are getting on my nerves too.


Since she has taken time away I have kept thinking why should I bother with her? WHY! Theres plenty of fish in the sea and virgins at that much better suited to be a wife for you. WHy bother with her or compromise? LEAVE HER to her own devices and leave her be with her parents and its not your responsibilty whether she stays muslim or not.
But then when I see her photo, her smile etc or remember her not wearing perfume, wearing decent clothes, not shaking hands with men, the other little bits my heart instantly softens.
Im here so far because of :
How I feel about her.
How much she has changed and her capacity to change though very slow.
A small part is the guilt in giving her so many of my firsts (something Im ashamed of).
How much I care for her and pity her too and dont want to be yet another man abandoning her.
The kindness, sweetness and care I see in her and from her


What should I do? I am so confused and have lost so much sleep and have cried so much and have regretted, I just dont know what to do.

What if she chooses me over her parents then what? should I stay for her or leave?

[Tranquillity]

As I always say in such cases- if you can honestly say that you won't throw her past back in her face, then fine. Otherwise leave her alone. It may be that you would both be happier with other people. Allah knows best.
May Allah guide you both to what is best for your Deen. Ameen.

[Cashew]

On the one hand, you appear to be a sincere faithful Muslim who wishes to share Islam, if not marriage, with this young woman.

On the other hand, you seem to be entirely obsessed with her past even though you as a Muslim know that her conversion erased all her sins.

How can she be free of her past sins if you can never stop thinking about them?

When we consider marrying someone, we must consider marrying the person they are, not the person we hope they might become, or the person we wish they had been.

It's also troubling that you seem to believe that you have never sinned, that you've never done things for which you now feel ashamed.

Perhaps this girl disturbs you so much because you, too, have sinned in the past and haven't quite yet considered those things and repented of them.

Consider this:

Perhaps God put this girl in your path so that you could bring her to Islam.

Perhaps God put you in this girl's path so that you would be encouraged to consider your own sins, seek forgiveness for them, and draw closer to God.

[anonymousmind]

As I always say in such cases- if you can honestly say that you won't throw her past back in her face, then fine. Otherwise leave her alone. It may be that you would both be happier with other people. Allah knows best.
May Allah guide you both to what is best for your Deen. Ameen.


Thanks brother. But how Can I know if I will or I wont?

I feel that if she changes into an awesome muslimah where even Im challenged by her dedication and faith etc then I would never bring it up again and I am sure I could love her.

But as of right now shes very slow at change and doesnt seem to have gotten that backbone that islam gives etc.


My own mother said shed stay if it meant helping her become a better muslim. But then again is my life charity to others?


Sometimes I look at her and I think about all the good and all the changes and I feel content and happy and just want to hold her and protect her. Sometimes when the bad comes in it disgusts the hell out of me and makes me feel unspecial and maybe that shes converted for me etc.


I really dont know nor ever imagined me being in this situation. I had always dreamed and imagined of marrying a woman who like me in the face of temptation stood her ground and never gave in hence anything she did to me or said to me would have been a first or special. And its one thing to just know number its totally another when you have seen photos, know every little detail, had met her and she wanted to do the same bad to you etc etc

No man wants to know that the love of their life has been shared around and well used by some losers who did nothing in comparison for her.



Comeon other! 55views and no other opinions on what to do?????

[`asiya]

:wswrwb: i became more and more dismayed when i read this brother, what on earth have u been doing with this woman! what were u thinking! u have dragged all her past out of her,which u had no right to speak about or ask about from a strange woman, even before she became a muslimah you had no right to speak about any of those things to her.

you say u are strong and capable and she is weak! no you are the weak one who has left behind the teachings of your deen to follow in the footsteps of the shaitan! she is the strong one who left behind the ways of shaitan to follow al Islam but you have confused her now about what is permissible in Islam.

you have been alone with her, travelled to her country with her, and "given her all your firsts" (whatever that means) and how dare you!! u are supposed to be a muslim! how dare u mess with this girl and then have the audacity to think that she might not be good enough for u! do u know how many major sins u have commmitted and admitted to here! yet she is sin free as a new muslimah.

im close to tears here when i think how u led this woman on, and how many men shame this ummah by behaving in this way openly no wonder her parents dont like you!! they are right you had no right to ask about her past and what do her parents see ? a man with double standards! says one thing, beleives one thing as a muslim but does totally another! then you turn around and have the audacity to say she may not be good enough for you! ajeeb! ajeeb! maybe she is better than you and I , and Allah ta ala knows best. You should apologise to her father for what u have been doing with his daughter, and seek to correct the damage that has been done, they live in ignorance , but you are supposed to know better!

u dont like her past and yet u have a terrible past too, running around with a non mahram woman, and unlike her who was in ignorance u have no excuse, because as a muslim who has the guidance of the Quran and sahih sunnah, u know it is forbidden to be alone with a woman, to speak to her like that, it is forbidden for you to even look at her face!! subhanAllah, u know this is forbidden in Islam if u have read the Quran, u know clearly that what u have done is wrong and yet u have the nerve to say shes not good enough for u! are u good enough for this new muslimah!

my advice to you repent to Allah ta ala, and remember repentance has its conditions, u must never return to these sins again, and u should try and repair all this terrible damage that has been done. Write to her and tell her what u have done is wrong, tell her u have behaved appaullingly, ask her forgiveness for leading her astray under the guise of teaching her about islam, and ask the forgivness of Allah ta ala, repent to Allah ta ala before it is too late, introduce her to the imam of your local masjid, let him arrange for her to learn about islam, let him arrange some support for her in regards to her situation at home, the imam is the amir of the community and he has a duty to help her, and to help to educate her about the true Islam the importance of hijab and so on.

Do not speak alone with this woman! do not stay alone with her, do not meet alone with her! she is a muslimah save her chastity and her honour and dighnity for it is as if she is a virgin again now and its as if her past has never ever happened, she has taken her shahaddah, she is a muslimah your sister in al Islam so treat her with the respect a muslimah dererves. if you sincerly repent to Allah and want to marry her, then go to her walli, now she is a muslimah she must have a muslim walli ( not you) the imam will fulfill this obligation insha Allah. You should not speak to her in private about marriage, speak to her walli instead and he will make sure you are the kind of man who is deserving of this muslimah.

put right all the damage that has been done, and look at yourself before u think or say anything bad about this woman. and stop spying on her, the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam said " do not spy on one another!!" she is a muslimah and u do not have the right to drive round to her house and spy on her to see if she is doing this or that, she is the one who is submitting to Allah, when it is made clear to her what Allah and his messenger have said about wearing perfume, about shaking hands with men, she has refrained from that masha Allah,yet you doubt even her conversion to Islam!!

The prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam said " suspicion of a muslim is from shaitan " so take your suspicions out of your head and seek refuge from the whispers of shaitan who it seems has had a very firm grasp on you for quite some time, from what u have said here.

may Allah ta ala continue to guide her, may He ta ala make what u have done have no effect on her Islam, may He ta ala protect her from confusion about the deen and give her understanding and knowledge of her religion and guide us all amin!

[RashidD]

Brother you know if you've seen indecent pics of her then that was wrong i think. Her past sins should not be revealed and u must cover/ hide them.

[anonymousmind]

asiya;

To start with you have no right to judge me. Yes I have done wrong and admit that. I too am not without sin. But I had never ever ever been involved with anybody on any level.

You hadnt met this woman nor were you in my shoes. When I met her she openly and happily stated " you know I have kissed a ton of guys etc". She openly told me some of her past. Then I saw her photos accidentally and she openly laughed and joked about them etc. And she wanted to do things to me. She seemed happy about her life and her past and her drinking partying sleeping and proud of it all and cried to me telling me she loved another guy etc and Im supposed to feel what? awesome?! It wasnt until I told her I was a virgin at 26 and still waiting for the right woman to marry and I wont sleep with anybody that her tune slowly changed until months later she started saying she regrets all her past and everything shes done.

I could have walked away right then and there but I didnt and I tried to help her. I saw many things in her which is why I continued to stay by her side. As I continued to help her towards a better life I started getting attached.

The point is many things she had openly told me then. Some things she told me later. Some things I questioned and she answered. Lots of things she lied to me. After the shahada she decided some points needed to be told.


And I did not go there to spy as Allah is my witness but merely to ease my heart seeing her in a Hijab.

The doubts of conversion are because of all the little things she does. I have seen many many times women convert to be with a man and afterwards turn back to what they used to be. I have seen both good and lots of things that cause doubt too eg her reasoning behind not wearing the hijab at work or on way to home, her reasoning for wearing skirt at work, her reasoning for hanging out with non-mahram work men etc.

And what do you know of her parents? or their morality?
You want me to get preached on morality by a mother that thinks its ok for me to sleep with her daughter and that we should try and live together? Or a father that thinks sleeping around with women is normal and cheating is fair game too?


Bro Rashid:
Like I said the photos come out accidentally. But back then she was happy and giggly about it all and explained things. And Yes I have hidden her past sins from everyone including her obnoxious parents.

[SisterIslam]

I don't think that you deserve to marry her! You think that she is not good enough for you but I believe that you're not good enough for her. You said that you told her to take her hijab off after she converted. :shock:

[Mace]

I've read your post twice now. I almost want to reply to every single sentence in it.

I agree with `asiya on this one. "Dismay" is the very appropriate word that she used. What you've done is outside of your religion, no doubt. And I personally would consider it virtually psychological abuse on your part.

I can't imagine why you "probed" as relentlessly as you did. I can't imagine what made you think you have the right to know every detail of her past, including even the pictures. I have no idea why you would think it was appropriate to interrogate her after she had reverted when she was, according to your faith, completely forgiven. And then you have the audacity to refuse a meeting with her father because he might interrogate you "inappropriately"???

As for your future, all I can say is that if you don't understand what a man and wife can share in marriage, and if you think it's nothing more than what she may have experienced in the past, then sadly you are (a) NOT in love with her despite what you may think and (b) you have no idea what marriage is all about. Not even a clue.

You say you're a confident person, but you are wallowing in a pointless competition with her past sin. You are literally keeping score of what she has "given" others versus what she can give you. I find that immature and selfish and I think it betrays a real lack of confidence on your part that you might want to come to grips with.

Nothing you have written here would lead anyone to think you actually love her. Is this how you treat someone you love? Is this your idea of how you should respect the potential mother of your children?

In any case, with all due respect, I would not approve of someone in your state of mind marrying my daughter. And I think her parents have every right to question this as well.

And if you can be honest with yourself, you should do exactly as `asiya has suggested.

[anonymousmind]

I don't think that you deserve to marry her! You think that she is not good enough for you but I believe that you're not good enough for her. You said that you told her to take her hijab off after she converted. :shock:

No sister. READ. I told her she CAN/COULD take it off if she wanted but she didnt which is why I felt so proud of her.

[Unregistered1]

Salaam BRo,
I've read your post three times and have alot of questions on my mind-instead of writing a long reply I think a dialogue would be easier so you're free to add me if you want to.

ZE7ZEZ@hotmail.com

Peace

[Sabz42]

Salaam,
aww u sound like such a nice person. honest opinion my advice wud b that thier are plenty of fishes in the sea and i think u deserve better and much more!

[hanaa_al_muminah]

i agree with asiya.... :up::up:..straight 2 the point..

[anonymousmind]

Can you guys offer me help and suggestions on what to do now rather than point the finger at me and condemn me when you obviously arent in my shoes, nor can you read and comprehend what I wrote nor know the intentions I had nor even know the type of family etc?


Heres a hint theres a reason why shes still not married and always been dumped by others.


But hey, feel free not to offer me any advice and condemn me without knowing my circumstances, intentions or what i have been through for her.

[XRUHYX]

Sounds like you are not entirely happy with her and have ur doubts, don't do it if in doubt.

Also sounds like you have huge problems dealing with her pats, if ur thinking that way then I don't think you will ever be able to accept it and forget it as her past, ur already saying she's inferior to you as she can't cook etc and also that you have always wanted to marry a virgin, if that's what you want then yeah do that because you shouldn't compromise your happiness for this other woman. If we all married brother's and sister's out of sympathy then there would be no happy marriages but I do feel for this sister as you have used her as well!!

What makes you think just because you are doing all the wrong things to her makes it right??

Brother make sincere repentance to Allah for all that you have done wrong to her and I hope Allah forgives you.

I think you will be best off marrying someone who you think is much better suitable to you as you obviously do not think this sister is, by marrying someone of ur first choice and not second I think you will do much good to the sister and yourself. Hope you end up doing the right thing Inshallah. Make istikhara as well by the way.

Wassalam

[anonymousmind]

Brother. I am truly sorry for what I did to her after the shahada and have repented and not repeated it.

However what you need to also remember is her tune and her stories changed and she lied so so so many times about it all. Result? Many times she gave me hope and then took it away and many times she changed her stories. And had she been married then I wouldnt have minded as much but she had done a lot of indecent things and just the thought of some other men bedding her just eats me up.

Its not so much that I think shes inferior but seriously and realistically people look for qualities in a wife ie wife material and shes not that yet. However she is trying.

If only she could get a backbone and become a decent muslimah then it would make it easier. We both know many people convert to marry somebody and sometimes she confuses me with what she says or does. At the time her conversion seemed genuine but some of the things she has done afterwards makes it strange.

I really dont want to hurt her or abandon her. Me leaving her might be enough reason for her not to continue with Islam thinking whats the point, even he left me.

I have tried to do istikhara but I can barely sleep and am restless and depressed and torn apart inside. Just to try and sleep I need meds and even then not much and I havent got anything yet from istikhara.

I want to do the right thing but im torn apart because I really dont know what to do.
Part of me says if shes willing to choose me over her parents and become a good muslimah and try hard then inshallah I can try and look past her past 1 day. Until that day I wouldnt feel right consumating the marriage and even if she were virgin I wouldnt consumate it straight away and theres nothing wrong with that that I know of.

the other part says just leave her. walk away. but then I worry about the damage id cause her by doing that and the hurt and how much it would damage her faith etc. I DO care about her.

I really dont know....

[Deeds]

:salams:

Its really difficult to give advice when from your post it appears your very conflicted too!

First of all your very proud this girl reverted to Islam, although it comes across that maybe the reversion was more to help her get you rather then find the truth; Islam.

Secondly although it appears that you have a great desire for her she does not fit your ideal of a wife.

I think when some-one reverts to Islam, you have to give them space to find their bearing of the religion. She needs to find sisters who she can benefit from, teachers who can teach her, a community she can be a part of.

Also if she was offering you a haram relationship before she reverted she was just following the norm of her community, her society and if she had boyfriends again it is would have been normal for her.

From reading what you have written it is clear that you are very conflicted, I would suggest that now you have shown her the way, to leave her. Iman is something that Allah awakens in us, it is not something that people give each other. What you need to do is spend time increasing your own iman; :insha:

If she is meant to marry you, her faith will bring her towards you... And if you are meant to marry her the same will happen. Although a situation which is not allowing you any sleep or peace of mind now; is hardly going to improve if you marry her with all the concerns you are showing.

I would say for her benefit and yours, you need to stay well away. Detach yourself completely. If she reverted for the sake of Allah, she will have a new beginning. But if she did so to gain you, she will just lapse back into her old life.

Make sure she is left with some Muslimah contacts. Or even a good Women only dawah site (Islamways Sisters Forum).

May Allah guide you both and mercy on all Muslimeen... Ameen.

[feroz97]

From what you say, it seems you don't trust this girl at all. You kept repeatedly asking her about her past even though she has already told you, you probe her, you spy her. :rubeyes:

I don't know why you must marry her with this kind of opinion about her. You are just going to make your life and her life more miserable.

Seriously DON'T MARRY HER !!


I highly suggest you get away from all this, take a long ride far far away. Mediate for atleast 15 minutes and once done while still having your eyes closed start analyzing and questioning yourself as why you love her and if this relationship will work out. This will allow you to have a better understanding of the situation as your brain will reach the alpha level where it analysis and understands more deeply.

You did a major mistake by not trusting her even after her shahada.

There is too much conflicts and errors on your side as well.

Allah Knows Best!

[PiElle2]

make a decision...

1) accept her, her past, her family and marry her. her livelihood will be your responsibility for the rest of your married life together. keep in mind some risk involved.

2) do not accept her, do not marry her, help her to some islamic education and some muslimahs who can help her, and then forget about her. it is her own responsibilty now that she's converted. you find another muslim girl, a virgin if that's your preference. no risk with her involved.

3) Do not make any decision now and this will probably carry on for a while and then see what happens.... eventually you'll feel the need to make a decision...

marriage is like charity because there is so much giving to do... from your own part... once you start expecting, then you will somehow find fault with the other person.

Do not worry, have patience, and put your trust and faith in Allah.

[anonymousmind]

Brother feroz I have taken 3 weeks off but so far almost 2 weeks nothing has been made clearer.

The reasons for not having trusted her is because of all the lies she told me. Everything was based on lies and I kept getting hope well atleast she didnt do this or she didnt do that or she never said this to anybody but turns out she has said and done it all. There is nothing left for me.

Though she swears that I am the only true love of her life and she had been deluding herself and was hurt from the 1st guy and hence consequently used by the 2nd and deluded herself it was love but nobody has gone as far or cared as much or done as much for her.

I DID NOT SPY on her. I merely wanted to see her and talk to her and be given hope seeing her in a Hijab but everytime I didnt it broke me and felt sad so I couldnt talk to her until I finally did on the last try.

Reasons even after the shahada is because things never made sense and her lies never fit. She finally admitted things. Thats why because my brain told me bro she is lying to you this doesnt fit or make sense and I WAS RIGHT.

I always wanted to be my wifes first kiss, hug etc
At the very least my wifes first sexual encounter.
The first and only love of my wife.

ABOVE are things I offered her! NONE of which she can offer me.

Dont you think if she could that would make me feel special just like by her own admissions being my first makes her feel special????

Why am I here then? I have thought about it.
1. People deserve a 2nd chance and she has converted.
2. I really do think she loves me.
3. She has gone to lengths for me and trusts me.
4. The guilt I have over some things I have given her UNDER false impression and lies by her which I had reserved for my wife(who would/could be her).
5. I see the changes, the kindness, the dedication, the regret and the goodness in her.
6. I do care about her and DO love her.

Why is it then that I have issues? Because Im not a first of anykind or anything for her whereas all I give her are firsts. The conflict caused by some of the things she has said and how she has acted even post shahada that hints MAYBE she has converted for my sake to be with me. The still evident lack of backbone where she cant stand up for herself. ANd she has told her parents that she has been with other guys EVEN after the shahada WHERE IS THE SHAME!? its like shes playing both sides of the fence.
And then ofcourse theres what people look for in a wife apart from being pure innocent etc such as being stable, able etc.

Thats why im in such conflict. Before she had my utter trust. But when she cried in front of me and told me Im the only guy she has said I LOVE YOU too and meant it I believed her! But guess what? Even that was a lie.

And she says marriage to me is special and we waited so everything is meaningful. But how can it when she slept with the 2nd guy and move in with him and lived like husband and wife for 2months or something and slept with him twice three times a day and didnt even care about noises or other people being behind the door in dorms?

[Pro_Candy]

You are stuck on wanting to 'be the first' for everything. Leave this poor girl alone, you will always hold her past against her if you marry her. You will always have a grudge against her. Introduce her to some Muslim sisters who will help her find a Muslim man who will not hold everything against her, and go find yourself the perfect sheltered virgin hijabi you are looking for. And good luck with that.

[`asiya]

Brother feroz I have taken 3 weeks off but so far almost 2 weeks nothing has been made clearer.

The reasons for not having trusted her is because of all the lies she told me. Everything was based on lies and I kept getting hope well atleast she didnt do this or she didnt do that or she never said this to anybody but turns out she has said and done it all. There is nothing left for me.

Though she swears that I am the only true love of her life and she had been deluding herself and was hurt from the 1st guy and hence consequently used by the 2nd and deluded herself it was love but nobody has gone as far or cared as much or done as much for her.

I DID NOT SPY on her. I merely wanted to see her and talk to her and be given hope seeing her in a Hijab but everytime I didnt it broke me and felt sad so I couldnt talk to her until I finally did on the last try.

Reasons even after the shahada is because things never made sense and her lies never fit. She finally admitted things. Thats why because my brain told me bro she is lying to you this doesnt fit or make sense and I WAS RIGHT.

I always wanted to be my wifes first kiss, hug etc
At the very least my wifes first sexual encounter.
The first and only love of my wife.

ABOVE are things I offered her! NONE of which she can offer me.

Dont you think if she could that would make me feel special just like by her own admissions being my first makes her feel special????

Why am I here then? I have thought about it.
1. People deserve a 2nd chance and she has converted.
2. I really do think she loves me.
3. She has gone to lengths for me and trusts me.
4. The guilt I have over some things I have given her UNDER false impression and lies by her which I had reserved for my wife(who would/could be her).
5. I see the changes, the kindness, the dedication, the regret and the goodness in her.
6. I do care about her and DO love her.

Why is it then that I have issues? Because Im not a first of anykind or anything for her whereas all I give her are firsts. The conflict caused by some of the things she has said and how she has acted even post shahada that hints MAYBE she has converted for my sake to be with me. The still evident lack of backbone where she cant stand up for herself. ANd she has told her parents that she has been with other guys EVEN after the shahada WHERE IS THE SHAME!? its like shes playing both sides of the fence.
And then ofcourse theres what people look for in a wife apart from being pure innocent etc such as being stable, able etc.

Thats why im in such conflict. Before she had my utter trust. But when she cried in front of me and told me Im the only guy she has said I LOVE YOU too and meant it I believed her! But guess what? Even that was a lie.

And she says marriage to me is special and we waited so everything is meaningful. But how can it when she slept with the 2nd guy and move in with him and lived like husband and wife for 2months or something and slept with him twice three times a day and didnt even care about noises or other people being behind the door in dorms?

akhi again im going to be completely honest with you. from what you say obviously have no respect for her, u have nothing good to say about her, and you are going to completely do her head in with your list of what u want, and cant have and she cannot give you.

She has said she wants to wait for marriage with you, and not do zinnah but still this is not good enough for you, she cannot turn back the time, she cannot have her life again she is where she is, Alhamdulillah a muslimah, and no wonder she lied to you because it must be so difficult for her to be bombarded with all your questions about her past even after she has reverted . we only have to look at what u mention in the last line of your post here, audu billah u seek details of this womans past then get angry about it, even after she has become a muslimah you cant let it go, ites eating you up inside, you want to control her history and you cant do that akhi it reminds me of the hadith the words " if..opens the doors to shaitan" if only she didnt have this past, if she hadnt have lied to you, if only this, if only that, shaitan has had his way in this situation and has played with your mind.

How do u think she would feel if she could read your posts here and the way u speak about her like she was a whore. She was in ignorance, now she knows better, so please have some respect for our sister because what you want from this woman, she cannot give you. send her to the imam and he will find some practising muslim sisters to take care of her and help her.

you are only going to torment her mind and her emotions for things that are gone and forgotten and forgiven by Allah ta ala, and these are things that have nothing at all to do with you, now it is as if they never happened, when this woman became a muslimah it is as if she is a virgin again now.

She is sin free as any virgin woman, perhaps more free from sin than a born muslim who has had time to acumillate other sins, and you should see her as such. This womans past does not affect you in anyway except to shatter some "ideal" u had in your head.

please dont destroy her mind and emotions, the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam said that a woman is.. " as fragile as a glass vessel" and needs to be treated as such, if u were to marry her and treat her with harshness and distain then you will kill any love she has for u as a wife, and if u have no respect for her, she will never be able to respect you as a husband, akhi u have some serious issues dont make them hers too insha Allah, because u will destroy her as a woman and it could take her a long time to recover from such treatment. if u cant see her as a muslimah then let her go to someone who will treat her and respect her as a muslimah deserves and stop playing mind games with her.

when people revert to islam their past is totally irellevant, she needs to have a walli to represent her please please send her to the local imam and she can ask him to be her walli, and tell her that you will speak only to him about marriage with her, then you can take all of this to her walli in private and see what he has to say about the muslimah in his care insha Allah. :up:

[anonymousmind]

You are stuck on wanting to 'be the first' for everything. Leave this poor girl alone, you will always hold her past against her if you marry her. You will always have a grudge against her. Introduce her to some Muslim sisters who will help her find a Muslim man who will not hold everything against her, and go find yourself the perfect sheltered virgin hijabi you are looking for. And good luck with that.

Bro/Sister Everybody has their limits. Sure allah subhanahuwatallah can forgive. And I can forgive as can you to some extents. But dont forget that peoples past can haunt their future.

Would you marry somebody who USED to be a pornstar before they became muslim? Would you be comfortable with it? Sure god may have forgiven them and you may have to but could you deal with it?
What about if this persons ex had lots of nudy sex shots/video and they were on the internet or given to ex's friends etc?

If you say NO to the former pornstar then you should reflect on why?

And to be a virgin doesnt mean anything about being sheltered! Have you not read my posts? I have had more temptations thrown in my face than most people including women practically begging me to sleep with them, drugs, alcohol, bad people, college and sex everywhere. So now your implying that what? Because I held out and believed and was decent and romantic fool enough to want to be the first for my wife and she likewise to me Im stupid? or sheltered? or unrealistic?
Why the hell do you think she loves me so much!


And 1 reason of doubts is exactly because I have tried many times to get her to go to the local mosque, join the sisters, get their numbers and stay in contact, meet them, make new muslim friends etc. But she seems hesitant and cant seem to go because of random excuses. She only went for shahada and that was after many many times.

[anonymousmind]

akhi again im going to be completely honest with you. from what you say obviously have no respect for her, u have nothing good to say about her, and you are going to completely do her head in with your list of what u want, and cant have and she cannot give you.

She has said she wants to wait for marriage with you, and not do zinnah but still this is not good enough for you, she cannot turn back the time, she cannot have her life again she is where she is, Alhamdulillah a muslimah, and no wonder she lied to you because it must be so difficult for her to be bombarded with all your questions about her past even after she has reverted . we only have to look at what u mention in the last line of your post here, audu billah u seek details of this womans past then get angry about it, even after she has become a muslimah you cant let it go, ites eating you up inside, you want to control her history and you cant do that akhi it reminds me of the hadith the words " if..opens the doors to shaitan" if only she didnt have this past, if she hadnt have lied to you, if only this, if only that, shaitan has had his way in this situation and has played with your mind.

How do u think she would feel if she could read your posts here and the way u speak about her like she was a whore. She was in ignorance, now she knows better, so please have some respect for our sister because what you want from this woman, she cannot give you. send her to the imam and he will find some practising muslim sisters to take care of her and help her.

you are only going to torment her mind and her emotions for things that are gone and forgotten and forgiven by Allah ta ala, and these are things that have nothing at all to do with you, now it is as if they never happened, when this woman became a muslimah it is as if she is a virgin again now.

She is sin free as any virgin woman, perhaps more free from sin than a born muslim who has had time to acumillate other sins, and you should see her as such. This womans past does not affect you in anyway except to shatter some "ideal" u had in your head.

please dont destroy her mind and emotions, the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam said that a woman is.. " as fragile as a glass vessel" and needs to be treated as such, if u were to marry her and treat her with harshness and distain then you will kill any love she has for u as a wife, and if u have no respect for her, she will never be able to respect you as a husband, akhi u have some serious issues dont make them hers too insha Allah, because u will destroy her as a woman and it could take her a long time to recover from such treatment. if u cant see her as a muslimah then let her go to someone who will treat her and respect her as a muslimah deserves and stop playing mind games with her.

when people revert to islam their past is totally irellevant, she needs to have a walli to represent her please please send her to the local imam and she can ask him to be her walli, and tell her that you will speak only to him about marriage with her, then you can take all of this to her walli in private and see what he has to say about the muslimah in his care insha Allah. :up:

Sister I do agree with many things you say and Im sure the Shaitan has something to do with it. Yes I have always had ideals and have tried to live by them.

Alhamdullilah she hasnt tried committing zina but she had tried at the beginning. Had I met her who she is now I wouldnt have known anything and would have seen a much better person but unfortunately I met her and had known her when she was proud of her past, open about it willingly and wanted to repeat the same things with me. Then theres that lots of confusions in her stories etc. I had told her right from the beginning to tell me EVERYTHING the truth 100% but she didnt and she fed me lies etc only because she wanted me and didnt want me to walk away. That is the only reason I had some questions and some points SHE CHOSE to make clear and honest after her conversion. "If" she had been honest then I would have helped her become a muslimah and helped her etc and guided her but not gotten involved or I would have dealt with it and accepted it because atleast she was 100% honest with me and didnt lead me on, give me false hopes and impressions etc.

But you are ultimately right. If she has indeed converted from her heart then shes sin free. I accept that.

I have tried many times sister to get her to go to the local mosque, talk and set with sisters, make new decent friends with muslims, go to the weekly classes etc But apart from shahada and after a long time she hasnt been since. seems to have excuses not to go.

Sometimes I feel so happy with her and think about her in the most pleasant and adorable ways. And then sometimes maybe its the shaitan or my ideals or too much info or something I think of all the bad she had done. I have skipped a lot of the details and you think of "whore" well.... I have skipped many details many. And you have no idea how happy and proud she was about her past and how many details etc she shared happily. ONLY when I told her I was a virgin and have still waited and never done anything did her story slowly begin to change over months from being happy and proud and glib about it to what appears to be remorse or sadness etc about it though at times she still seems like maybe she doesnt really regret it by making certain comments.

If only shed try harder to be a better muslim and try and go to the mosque etc. I guess what Im also afraid of the future. Her having converted for my sake only and then when things get rough or whatever she reverts back to her old ways. Scares me.

I really dont know how much more I can do to encourage her to go to the mosque. Last time it was her HAIR DRESSER appointment :(
Any ideas?

[`asiya]

sah akhi :jkk: alhamdulillah she has seen the mistakes of her past and come to islam but she has to have a love of the deen from her own heart, and you cannot put that into her, her iman needs to grow and she needs to develop her own love for Al Islam, for Allah ta ala and his messenger salAllahu alleyhi wa salam. Alhamdulillah u have encouraged her to go to the masjid, and have sought to find sisters to teach her and assist her, but she must want to do that for herself.

Maybe you have to put everything to do with thoughts of marriage on hold, and take a step back and ask sisters to stay in touch with her, and help her to learn insha Allah if she wants to. Other than this theres nothing much more you can do now, you know yourself that if you love Islam, and want to live an islamic lifestyle then your spouse needs to want that too, and even if they are new to Islam that is no problem at all, as long as they want to do as Allah ta ala says in the Quran what means, when they hear the words of Allah and his messenger they submit ,because that is al Islam, it may take time to gain iman and knowledge of Islam, but insha Allah from that a love for Islam will come.

maybe you just need to give her and youself a more time Allahu alam, make a lot of duaa and insha Allah, as Allah ta ala says what means in the Quran, Allah ta ala.." will find a way forward for you from every difficulty from where u least expect it "

[Pro_Candy]

Bro/Sister Everybody has their limits. Sure allah subhanahuwatallah can forgive. And I can forgive as can you to some extents. But dont forget that peoples past can haunt their future.

Would you marry somebody who USED to be a pornstar before they became muslim? Would you be comfortable with it? Sure god may have forgiven them and you may have to but could you deal with it?
What about if this persons ex had lots of nudy sex shots/video and they were on the internet or given to ex's friends etc?

If you say NO to the former pornstar then you should reflect on why?

And to be a virgin doesnt mean anything about being sheltered! Have you not read my posts? I have had more temptations thrown in my face than most people including women practically begging me to sleep with them, drugs, alcohol, bad people, college and sex everywhere. So now your implying that what? Because I held out and believed and was decent and romantic fool enough to want to be the first for my wife and she likewise to me Im stupid? or sheltered? or unrealistic?
Why the hell do you think she loves me so much!


And 1 reason of doubts is exactly because I have tried many times to get her to go to the local mosque, join the sisters, get their numbers and stay in contact, meet them, make new muslim friends etc. But she seems hesitant and cant seem to go because of random excuses. She only went for shahada and that was after many many times.

Actually, I was married to an Arab Muslim man who came to the US and eventually became a stripper. I don't know how long he was a stripper, I never questioned him much on his past, I let him tell me what he wanted, but I knew he had overcome these things. Our divorce had nothing to do with his past, it had to do with how he was (in the present) with me and our children.

So, yeah, if you're gonna be 'haunted' by her past, then leave her ALONE. You cannot hold something against her, esp if she has, or is trying to, overcome it.

[muhammed_1428]

Have you tried reading Cashew's post yet? I'd recommend it.

I'm confused, what exactly is she still lieing to you about? I mean, IS she still lieing?

What you need to do, is get over it, end of the day, so long as you know she has sincerely repented for what she has done, has regeretted it, and has taken steps to ensure it never happens again, then all should be good.

These pictures of her shuold be burned if they are revealing etc etc or if they somehow release a bag of memories from her head of how guilty everything she used to do makes her feel....

Right now, only look towards the future, someone's past can only haunt their future if they let it do so. I haven't had the best of pasts with regards to my respecting and following the deen, neither have many of my Muslim brothers and sisters. We all sin but the best of us are those who recognised their sins and repent for them sincerely.

Once you start looking at why you wanted to marry her in the first place, her good qualities etc etc, it should make you forget about her past. If it doesn't, then that is your problem, not hers.

[anonymousmind]

sah akhi :jkk: alhamdulillah she has seen the mistakes of her past and come to islam but she has to have a love of the deen from her own heart, and you cannot put that into her, her iman needs to grow and she needs to develop her own love for Al Islam, for Allah ta ala and his messenger salAllahu alleyhi wa salam. Alhamdulillah u have encouraged her to go to the masjid, and have sought to find sisters to teach her and assist her, but she must want to do that for herself.

Maybe you have to put everything to do with thoughts of marriage on hold, and take a step back and ask sisters to stay in touch with her, and help her to learn insha Allah if she wants to. Other than this theres nothing much more you can do now, you know yourself that if you love Islam, and want to live an islamic lifestyle then your spouse needs to want that too, and even if they are new to Islam that is no problem at all, as long as they want to do as Allah ta ala says in the Quran what means, when they hear the words of Allah and his messenger they submit ,because that is al Islam, it may take time to gain iman and knowledge of Islam, but insha Allah from that a love for Islam will come.

maybe you just need to give her and youself a more time Allahu alam, make a lot of duaa and insha Allah, as Allah ta ala says what means in the Quran, Allah ta ala.." will find a way forward for you from every difficulty from where u least expect it "

See sister I havent talked or seen her for a while now. At the earliest it would have been 3 weeks later because I took a break from her. I really hope she has atleast tried going to the mosque so atleast they would have given her her certificate with her islamic name etc. I hope she has done something to improve her deen in all this time and not more excuses etc.

I have seen it many many times where women of this culture convert just to marry the man or seduce him or want a virgin but not really do it for themselves. I fear this because as you pointed out I want her to be a muslim at heart.

Dont you think If I saw her praying, being humble, repenting for her past sincerely, improving her deen, studying more etc to the point that inshallah she challenges me to improve too that I would be happy with her and can look past her past? Im just scared if this will ever happen or not at her pace which is very slow.

If I wait I dont know how much longer I can wait because I have been waiting for almost 10months.

I obviously dont know any of the sisters etc at the mosque but I had accompanied her for her conversion and she seemed to like the place and the people. I hope she has converted for real and is trying. Like you said too its something she needs to do and not something I can shove down her.

So I really dont know what she has been doing or has done or anything else. Last she told me was she was "sort of praying" based on the internet. I had encouraged her many times to go to the mosque then we had our issues and time out so since then I dont know. I HOPE SHE HAS. I REALLY DO.

[anonymousmind]

Actually, I was married to an Arab Muslim man who came to the US and eventually became a stripper. I don't know how long he was a stripper, I never questioned him much on his past, I let him tell me what he wanted, but I knew he had overcome these things. Our divorce had nothing to do with his past, it had to do with how he was (in the present) with me and our children.

So, yeah, if you're gonna be 'haunted' by her past, then leave her ALONE. You cannot hold something against her, esp if she has, or is trying to, overcome it.


Thats all well and good sister and Im glad for you.

But his past though he "overcame" it molded him into his present being.

Think about it just for a second. Can a man who has waited for you to be his everything first kiss, hug, love, partner etc and was that romantic etc CAN HIS LOVE compare to a man who had multiple sexual partners, was a stripper etc ? That other man who had waited is more likely to treat you with decency, respect, love, admiration, adoration and above else be loyal to you and never give up on you whereas in comparison the other man having been through so many relationships etc would most likely give up easier and not have as much of the qualities for you as the other guy.

ITS only natural sister. If I had fooled around with others with multiple relationships or had slept around I would not have even lost sleep over this girl. Nor though would I have opened myself so widely and left myself so utterly vulnerable nor ever truely loved adored admired TRUSTED believed etc either and would have easily walked away, more fish in the sea, shes not worth all the hardwork etc thoughts. SURE I overcame my past but IT STILL has molded me into who I am today.

[anonymousmind]

Have you tried reading Cashew's post yet? I'd recommend it.

I'm confused, what exactly is she still lieing to you about? I mean, IS she still lieing?

What you need to do, is get over it, end of the day, so long as you know she has sincerely repented for what she has done, has regeretted it, and has taken steps to ensure it never happens again, then all should be good.

These pictures of her shuold be burned if they are revealing etc etc or if they somehow release a bag of memories from her head of how guilty everything she used to do makes her feel....

Right now, only look towards the future, someone's past can only haunt their future if they let it do so. I haven't had the best of pasts with regards to my respecting and following the deen, neither have many of my Muslim brothers and sisters. We all sin but the best of us are those who recognised their sins and repent for them sincerely.

Once you start looking at why you wanted to marry her in the first place, her good qualities etc etc, it should make you forget about her past. If it doesn't, then that is your problem, not hers.

Like I said I had stopped questioning and I havent spoken or seen her in a long time so who knows what other lies she told me. Our whole relationship was based on lies told by her knowing I would have walked away or just been a friend.

Read my post to sister asiya and me trying to help her or she herself helping herself etc.

Sure those pics are gone from her. But what about all the other guys that have compromising pics of her? what if they share it around on the net or videos or show them around etc? What about all her "friends" and what they had seen and heard especially the intimate noises and their photos etc?
IT DOES HAPPEN AND HAS HAPPENED OFTEN.

I need to see her faith and dedication and I need to know she has truly repented. Things I dont really know and havent seen much effort on her part.

[muhammed_1428]

You know what, it seems like you're just stressing yourself over this woman.

If that's all you're going to do, then you may as well work to forget about her, if all this stuff bothers you... Sorry its harsh, but blunt and to the point. If all the way through you're just going to concern yourself consistently with her past, whose touched her, whose hugged her, kissed her, had intercourse with her, etc etc, then you're lieing to yourself if you're trying to forget about all this and move on...

If you really really can't let go of this stuff, let her go for someone who can...

[mgilani]

On the one hand, you appear to be a sincere faithful Muslim who wishes to share Islam, if not marriage, with this young woman.

On the other hand, you seem to be entirely obsessed with her past even though you as a Muslim know that her conversion erased all her sins.

How can she be free of her past sins if you can never stop thinking about them?

When we consider marrying someone, we must consider marrying the person they are, not the person we hope they might become, or the person we wish they had been.

It's also troubling that you seem to believe that you have never sinned, that you've never done things for which you now feel ashamed.

Perhaps this girl disturbs you so much because you, too, have sinned in the past and haven't quite yet considered those things and repented of them.

Consider this:

Perhaps God put this girl in your path so that you could bring her to Islam.

Perhaps God put you in this girl's path so that you would be encouraged to consider your own sins, seek forgiveness for them, and draw closer to God.

Exactly my thoughts....................! see all cali people think alike!!!!!

[Cashew]

Like I said I had stopped questioning and I havent spoken or seen her in a long time so who knows what other lies she told me. Our whole relationship was based on lies told by her knowing I would have walked away or just been a friend.

Read my post to sister asiya and me trying to help her or she herself helping herself etc.

Sure those pics are gone from her. But what about all the other guys that have compromising pics of her? what if they share it around on the net or videos or show them around etc? What about all her "friends" and what they had seen and heard especially the intimate noises and their photos etc?
IT DOES HAPPEN AND HAS HAPPENED OFTEN.

I need to see her faith and dedication and I need to know she has truly repented. Things I dont really know and havent seen much effort on her part.

You don't seem to understand that your obsession with this young woman's past is neither healthy nor normal.

[Ebony]

If you sincerely can't get over her past and the people she had r'ships with then put her out of her misery and let her go.

What kind of a r'ship can you both have if her past keeps haunting you and you can't bury it IN the past (where it belongs)?

What do you want her to do, ask the guys for the pictures they may have of her? Pretend they didnt see her in the "compromising" positions or didnt hear any noises and what not?

Really you are best not entering into the r'ship in the first place.

[Pippin1376]

You are being way too paranoid. Islam erases her past she is a Muslim now and wants to marry you, if you can't get past that then you need to do both of you a favour and break it off. Islam doesn't just make someone perfect she became a Muslim, that's great but she still has to do some work. If you keep questioning her and spying on her then you might just be breaking her down and making her think she'll never be a great Muslim. She may even be so turned off that she leaves Islam.

[anonymousmind]

Look. No guy would be convertable in my shoes gauranteed! For all you guys to talk its simple but when you know whats happened in detail, the actions, the play, the indecency, who, where, when, how, why and have seen the people and know where they live etc makes it all more personal. Inspite of all that I want to believe in her and believe in what I saw in her, I just need her to get a backbone and become a non-compromising muslimah.
Never mind how it would affect you years later if her photos videos etc went online or is online and your friends, family or someone random points out HEY heres your wife!!!


What Id love to see is a muslimah who has definately abandoned their past and have become practising at heart and trying hard everyday to become better.

Im sure after much thinking I could look past the past if I see that muslimah. As of the last time I met her I didnt see that muslimah.

What also frightens me is this girl her whole life has been wishy washy and no backbone. Her past actions and what happened to her and what she did was all because of that side of her.
Even her parents pointed out how wishy washy she is.
I guess im frightened of never seeing her become a really good muslimah and that would break my heart. I guess im frightened of her past haunting me and her later on; photos, videos etc. I guess im frightened to also think that maybe im just another wishy washy decision on her part. I guess im frightened that maybe deep down shes changed for me only to be with me but at heart is still wants to drink, party, wear miniskirts and bikinis etc. Im frightened that maybe shes doing it all because she realises what a great guy I am and wants my virginity etc(has happened to me before) so that it could give her life meaning or something.


As of right now thanks to the long time apart and the holiday and much thinking I have realised some things;

I stayed who I am and followed my religion alhamdullilah and stayed a virgin never sleeping around or playing etc because I wanted too. I dont regret living as a decent person as Islam teaches. How I lived my life wasnt meaningless just because she lived heres wrongly!!! How I waited was and is important, just because of her it doesnt make it less important!

The confusion of so why the hell did I wait and live my life so decently with all those temptations in my face etc is gone now alhamdullilah.

I am proud of fighting temptations and urges and being as good a muslim as I could be, not partying, drinking, clubbing, sleeping around, stripping etc :)

Now all that remains is her.....

[helping]

I am proud of fighting temptations and urges and being as good a muslim as I could be, not partying, drinking, clubbing, sleeping around, stripping etc :)

Now all that remains is her.....

Just wanted to say that its good you did not astray . However keep in mind your a born muslim and islam doesnt allow this stuff anyways. So u just followed your religion like so many ppl who are muslims do.
HER on the other hand was a non-muslim. If she did anuything in her past it was because she wasnt muslim and islamic rules dint apply to her. Only Allah knows her true intention to convert. Inshallah she did it for the right reasons .When she said the shahada her sins were forgiven. As you have been virgin all your life it is okay if you want a virgin for yourself. I think you should go for it if thats what you want. Dont worry about her. If she has accepted islam for the right reasons. Over the years Allah will make her very strong and solve her problems. She will find her right person and live happily. If her past comes up in the future (online photos) her futuure husband will hopefully understand and it wont bother them. BEsides Allah will take care of her so inshaallah all her past will be hidden. There are so many ppl who commit sins in teh darkness of night and they repent and allah hides their mistakes.
As somebody else here said she shoiuld get her Wali. And you should only talk to her Wali after deciding on her.
Also, she needs a lot of time on her own. Reverts are new to Islam and need time to accept and learn. Not everyone becomes a perfect muslim right away. Its a long journey.
BEsides maybe she should marry a revert who might have gone through the same experiences and will understand her better. Why get into something you cant deal with.
I found some stuff that is relevant to your situation.
here is the links.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Cyber_Counselor/CyberCounselingE/CyberCounselingE&cid=1120469515603

Lastly, i dont think you should feel bad in wanting a pure girl. Its a difficult decision to make. May Allah help you. Also make istikhara.

[RandomGal]

I found this thread very depressing. I can totally see where the brother is coming from.

Yes, Islamically if one has repented from their past sins, we do not have the right to judge him/her.

However, we can not control our heart or our feelings - if the brother has difficulties accepting her sordid past than that is something that is out of his control. I was in a similar situation a few years ago - I recieved a proposal of marraige from a very practsing, active, ambitious, educated brother. However, he admitted that he had a full blown sexual relationship with his ex girlfriend for a couple of years when they were in school.

I didnt doubt his sincerity to Islam. I didnt doubt that he done his tobah and regretted his actions and changed his ways. However, my mind and heart find it very difficult to accept him as a partner knowing what he has done. I couldnt control the way I felt and refused the proposal. I knew that his past would play into my insecurities and I wouldnt be able to forget what he did.

And in this case, one thing that does worry me is the fact that even after conversion, you've caught her lying so many times and claim that she hasnt got a backbone, which makes me wonder weather her conversion was totally her own decision.

I knew a girl with a sordid past, no backbone who reverted to Islam. But couple of months down the line she converted back.

No one can tell you what to do brother, however you need to decide weather or not you can fully accept her for what she is and what she has done. And if you cant, you need to move on.

If its only the fact that you have feelings for her that keeps you in this relationship and nothing else. You need to move on as feelings are fleeting.

[anonymousmind]

Something just occured to me. A convert's past is wiped spiritually speaking etc sure but what about a muslims one?

Lets say your going to marry a muslim man/woman and he/she has done bad unislamic immoral stuff. Should you accept him/her even though they did all that whilst being a muslim?

And if we as muslims become so understanding etc of fellow muslims who shouldnt have done all that in their pasts then arent we just promoting their kind of behaviour? By accepting them for spouses arent we saying its alright its ok what they did in their past? Arent we promoting our islamic society to get worse and worse by being so accepting and understanding? Whats the lashback to their actions?, Whats to stop them or disencourage them from doing immoral things in the first place? On the contrary it would only be more encouraging since everyone is so understanding and society has become so accepting etc.

[Noor_Usman]

Asalamalikum.

Emotions are hard things to deal with and so in that respect you have my support and pity brother.
However I have to agree with a lot of the sisters that have posted in reply. You sound very much like someone I know.....and I probably used the be THAT girl in his eyes, the same as she is in yours. He had a very similar out look on things. I often used to try and tell myself that he just didn't have a way with words and he didn't mean things as harshly or abruptly as they came out :rolleyes: but over time I learnt that no...these were in fact his genuine feels...he just wasn't very tactful at letting me know.

I'll be very open with you here so that maybe you can understand how she is going to be feeling.
When men go on like this you feel like no matter what you do or what you become they're always going to throw this back in your face as soon as you have a disagreement. You begin to think was there any point converting after all because no matter how true it is in your heart, him and people like him are always going to be suspicious of you and they'll always treat you different and throw up things about your past even though you're meant to be sin and guilt free.... make out like you're not a proper muslim :(
You get worried because women spiritually advance 10 times faster than men so you know inshallah there will be a point soon enough when you will be equal in spiritual understanding...but would he accept that when he's so used to being above you....and what if you advanced further than him?? :confused: What if you tried to guide him for once instead and the whole thing turned into WW3 because he couldn't accept that for once you knew better than him?
What if your beliefs in Islam differed to him as you advanced but he kept trying to preach his own interpretation for the rest of your lives? How would you possibly live together and raise a family or anything normal like that with such fundimental differences?
Ultimately, does he really care about you as a woman in her own right or are you just his project and he feels compelled to marry you so that someone is taking care of you.....as if it's his duty now that you've converted....:(

Then you have all the other complications of knowing how wrong your family are but loving them non the less. You can't stand to share their sin full lives so you want to get out of there but you don't want to loose contact with the people that raised you. And if you're going to move out and start this whole new muslim life (which is just as scary as it is exciting!) then you need to be certain that you will have support and stability....which is hard when the muslim guy who wants to marry you is pressuring you! :rolleyes:



My last words of advice are...if you can look to her future and not her past...and let her advance in whatever way she pleases and just be there to guide her when she faulters.....then and only then should you really consider being with her.
If you are always going to want her to share your belief in Islam 100% and you are going to push her advancement or maybe not get over her past...then please for both of your sakes leave her well alone :(
Even years later you wont have got anywhere and all you'll have is heartaches and resentment :(

[anonymousmind]

Asalamalikum.

Emotions are hard things to deal with and so in that respect you have my support and pity brother.
However I have to agree with a lot of the sisters that have posted in reply. You sound very much like someone I know.....and I probably used the be THAT girl in his eyes, the same as she is in yours. He had a very similar out look on things. I often used to try and tell myself that he just didn't have a way with words and he didn't mean things as harshly or abruptly as they came out :rolleyes: but over time I learnt that no...these were in fact his genuine feels...he just wasn't very tactful at letting me know.

I'll be very open with you here so that maybe you can understand how she is going to be feeling.
When men go on like this you feel like no matter what you do or what you become they're always going to throw this back in your face as soon as you have a disagreement. You begin to think was there any point converting after all because no matter how true it is in your heart, him and people like him are always going to be suspicious of you and they'll always treat you different and throw up things about your past even though you're meant to be sin and guilt free.... make out like you're not a proper muslim :(
You get worried because women spiritually advance 10 times faster than men so you know inshallah there will be a point soon enough when you will be equal in spiritual understanding...but would he accept that when he's so used to being above you....and what if you advanced further than him?? :confused: What if you tried to guide him for once instead and the whole thing turned into WW3 because he couldn't accept that for once you knew better than him?
What if your beliefs in Islam differed to him as you advanced but he kept trying to preach his own interpretation for the rest of your lives? How would you possibly live together and raise a family or anything normal like that with such fundimental differences?
Ultimately, does he really care about you as a woman in her own right or are you just his project and he feels compelled to marry you so that someone is taking care of you.....as if it's his duty now that you've converted....:(

Then you have all the other complications of knowing how wrong your family are but loving them non the less. You can't stand to share their sin full lives so you want to get out of there but you don't want to loose contact with the people that raised you. And if you're going to move out and start this whole new muslim life (which is just as scary as it is exciting!) then you need to be certain that you will have support and stability....which is hard when the muslim guy who wants to marry you is pressuring you! :rolleyes:



My last words of advice are...if you can look to her future and not her past...and let her advance in whatever way she pleases and just be there to guide her when she faulters.....then and only then should you really consider being with her.
If you are always going to want her to share your belief in Islam 100% and you are going to push her advancement or maybe not get over her past...then please for both of your sakes leave her well alone :(
Even years later you wont have got anywhere and all you'll have is heartaches and resentment :(


Thank you sister for your input. I had figured as much after her shahada and hence stopped all the questioning etc. And left her to her own devices to think about things and me too.

Some of those points dont apply to me. I would be extremely happy subhanallah if she challenged me islamically and made me work harder. I would be very happy. I am not worried about her becoming more knowledgeable than me etc and would be there with her. Ultimately what is right is right islamically and what is wrong is wrong and I am not so arrogant to assume I know everything because I dont and am willing to be taught by my wife or others so long as I find it to be right too after research etc.
My main worry I guess is what if very little changes? What if she has only changed/converted for my sake and hence why she isnt trying very hard to advance herself from this point? Hence why she said her hopes were betrayed as though her conversion was for me?
In your case what did you do? Did you not try and advance yourself rapidly? Did you not stop wearing skirts revealing clothes etc?


If you dont mind it sounds very personal on your part so im guessing thats what happened to you? What then did you and him end up doing in the end?


And yes HELPING that link sounds very similar to my case but for some differences. Wonder what the brother did?

[anonymousmind]

QUOTE=RandomGal;2331127I found this thread very depressing. I can totally see where the brother is coming from.

Yes, Islamically if one has repented from their past sins, we do not have the right to judge him/her.

However, we can not control our heart or our feelings - if the brother has difficulties accepting her sordid past than that is something that is out of his control.<--- BINGO! Especially when I consider how little effort on anybodys part it took. I have literally given all there is of myself to her money, time, emotions, gifts, support, stability, respect, covering her and protecting her etc when I didnt need to do any of that.

I didnt doubt his sincerity to Islam. I didnt doubt that he done his tobah and regretted his actions and changed his ways. However, my mind and heart find it very difficult to accept him as a partner knowing what he has done. I couldnt control the way I felt and refused the proposal. I knew that his past would play into my insecurities and I wouldnt be able to forget what he did. <---Only consolation I get here is she wasnt a muslim. But then unlike you I get all the info and details, photos etc.

And in this case, one thing that does worry me is the fact that even after conversion, you've caught her lying so many times and claim that she hasnt got a backbone, which makes me wonder weather her conversion was totally her own decision. <-----Same worry I have too. God knows I made it very clear from almost the beginning and she had studied a lot of books and asked questions and I kept teaching her and 8-9months later she finally converted and it looked authentic because she got emotional and teary but she is a very emotional girl always.

I knew a girl with a sordid past, no backbone who reverted to Islam. But couple of months down the line she converted back. <-----My worst fear and something im worried would happen when im out of the picture because i just dont get those strong vibes i get from other muslimahs and this society its hard!!! If you dont mind what was this girls story? Why did she convert and why back to her oldself?


If its only the fact that you have feelings for her that keeps you in this relationship and nothing else. You need to move on as feelings are fleeting.<----Well what else could there be? Feelings is always what these things are about. Its not like I gain anything material from her.

[justathought]

Salaams,
Hope my input can help:
After reading the posts it seems to me that there are really only two options


1) Walk away from this girl even though you love her and go for the safe option...

2) Take the "chance" of possibly getting hurt....everyone deserves a chance to prove themselves and you love her..

See from what I understand in the beginning of your relationship you didn't expect to come to love her and have feelings for her in the way you do know. You had no expectations and didn't think of her as wife material...and you were maybe the same for her or maybe she thought you were like the type of guys she was used to meeting and therefore she was just being her "natural" self...
Sometimes when ppl don't know much about you and your values they are very honest and don't adjust themselves to you. So they are their natural selves.

As time went by and you got to know the girl and her situation and how she lived her life you for some reason decided inside maybe unconsc. that you were gonna "save" her and help her.....and so you made her a very important priority...and invested in her growth in as many ways you could..money..time..being a listener..etc etc...and she was receptive because maybe for the first time she met someone like you and she came to like you maybe for this and perhaps also on a deeper level it was an unusual challenge..only God knows...
When a person really likes you they will try to show you the best side of themselves and adjust to the kind of person you are....sometimes that includes lies.

Anyway so you came to love her too....

So you didn't exactly plan for this to happen but you are here now.

You love her but you also love this ideal partner you have in your head the one you thought you would fall in love with for the very first time. And the two are contrasts.
You have to ask yourself brother- DO YOU REALLY LOVE HER?
OR do you just want to "save" her and therefore feel like you have to be with her out of a blend of guiltfeeling and happiness over how much you feel she has changed with time and you could help her further?

Apart from the issue of convert or non-convert etc. do you like her as a PERSON? Her character. Is she the type of woman you would feel pride in calling a wife? Someone you would share a deep trust because you would know that person knew how to take care of themself so you didn't have to worry your self to extremes and spy on to make your doubts go away.
Do you want this woman to be the mother of your children eventually?

Sometimes doing the right thing is the hardest thing you have ever done but you know it's the best for you in the long length.
If you were a good friend of yourself and knew all about yourself what would you advice yourself to do not looking at the emotions.
BE OBJECTIVE for your own sake.

ALSO

A marriage is not a one-way thing. What do you get out of this?
Do you grow as a person yourself?Do you feel like a better person know than you were before you met her?

Hope you can use this.

Peace

[JayC]

assalaam alaykum warahmatullah

brother i didn't read all the replies, just your initial post.

let me advise you as one of many muslims that are married to reverts.
a new muslims past... just like with anyone past before practicing, is to be left completely alone.
the main error here was yours. what business was it of yours what her sexual life was like with her previous partners? akhee think. this is the only thing from all you mentioned that will come between the both of you when this relationship is blessed with marriage.

my husband also had previous sexual partners. but Allah blessed him by guiding him to Islam.
and her family are not the issue. kuffar are used to their children moving away for long periods. get married and set up your family home away from them. do your duties as a faithful muslim, as a husband... trust and teach her, and earn your rewards inshAllah.

you can't leave this new muslimah with your problems aswell as her own, i stress though, before marriage make sure she knows all her requirements.

and if you still have trust issues...or she is being promiscuous still after being taught the deen... then leave this alone in the past and move on with life.

inshAllah i pray the best outcome for you and may Allah bless you with all that is good for you, ameen.

[Noor_Usman]

I would be extremely happy subhanallah if she challenged me islamically and made me work harder. I would be very happy. I am not worried about her becoming more knowledgeable than me etc and would be there with her.
Mashallah I am very pleased to hear this :) If that is your honest outlook then instantly you will have less friction between yourselves.

My main worry I guess is what if very little changes?
From the people that I have met so far (and yes myself included) the first few years are the hardest. You go hardcore for a few months and then you seem to struggle....then you get back on track for a while...and then find out you've been forgetting to do things and feel really depressed and go extra hardcore again. It's just a personal challenge until you settle with your new life and new rules and ways of thinking. There is no set time period so you have to be ready to wait it out with her and be supportive but not pushy :up:

What if she has only changed/converted for my sake...
I'd just ask her once to clarify it for you and then NEVER bring it up again. It depends how tactful you are but you want to ask it softly...definately not during a row or anything!
Just make sure that if the answer was that she did it for herself then you can put all these mixed feelings aside and see her as the beautiful Muslim she has become with a whole new life ahead of her :)
If the answer is the opposite you are going to have to be prepaired to cut all ties with her and leave her alone - regardless of your personal feelings, because things are going to be inherently flawed between you.

In your case what did you do? Did you not try and advance yourself rapidly? Did you not stop wearing skirts revealing clothes etc?
No Alhamdillah my modest appearence was the first thing I made sure of. I didn't get a whole new wardrobe and hijab or anything straight away...but loose trousers and tops and especially if I was going out I'd have a jumper over the top to cover my figure more. I'd always have my hair tied back in a bobble so it wasn't in any way fancy. Then slowly I progressed - as I've found most reverted sisters do. Once the appearence is fairly modest most women work on their personailty like controling anger, not swearing etc and they tend to do a lot of reading up learning about the new religion. Some take to hijab very quickly....others are more hesitant and work on what's 'inside' and the other obligations like praying before they feel confident enough in themselves to have their religion on display. Inshallah with someone to support her she should come along quite quickly....but we are all individuals so again as long as there IS progress..no matter how slow..you should be paitent and supportive.

As for the guy, well...I've been a lot more open than I'd normally like to be but that's one of a woman's naffs (emotion) :rolleyes: I'd prefer not to say any more on the subject really, apart from I meant it when I said it would be very difficult. There's no quick fix to it. All you can do is trust in Allah and try to start things afresh - which means changing your previous views and standards. Inshallah you'll get there in the end...but it's a long hard road and one I'd not wish on any of my Sisters (or Brothers).

[anonymousmind]

Assalam

Subhannallah after 3 weeks away and thinking all alone on mountainsides and islands etc I came to many conclusions and with your help and prayers I came to understandings too. I looked deep down and put myself in her shoes and thought about all I did for her and all she did for me and what I put her through and vice versa etc. And you know what? I decided the past is in the past and neither her nor I can change that.

I came back and we met up. SUBHANNALAH! She came to break up with me! She told me many things like her parents are against it, they dont want her to be a muslim, she has urges to wear a skirt etc and doesnt understand why not, shes unsure, having an identity crises, her parents are pulling her apart, I had hurt her etc etc

Anyhow After I explained many things to her and what I came to an understanding of etc and showing her proof of me still thinking about her all along. She calmed down and we both decided to give it 1 last shot with her past never coming into the picture etc and if it doesnt work we walk away amicably knowing we tried our best. All was good and I was happy and she was very happy. But as soon as she went home her parents had a fight with her and yet again have pushed meaningless little temptations and have blown it out of proportion on her like why does she wear a scarf? why wont she wear her revealing clothes, why is she stringing me along, why is she so wishy washy, she cant live upto my expectations so why bother etc.

They are completely screwing with her head. She then called me in tears and explained the situation and yet again wanted to let me just go. She wants to get out of the hole shes in. She yet again voiced their concerns and her own insecurities and temptations and urges and rather than getting angry as normal or shutting the phone etc I listened and was understanding and supporting. I explained to her many things yet again but she said that her feelings are not 100% like they used to but we both know they are there. She is stuck in a hell hole now and I told her dont judge me on what I did but see how I am now. She sounded physcotic and almost as though she was going crazy. 1 second wanting me there and the next not wanting me there, wanting me to leave and then accusing me of abandoning her etc.
All I did and tried was to be understanding and keep assuring her that despite her doubts and that she would have done anything for me her conversion from what I saw was true and for herself, dont let your parents ruin your chance at happines etc. But it was just chaos and it was going all over the place. Even made comments like maybe I did it all for you, maybe im brainwashed, I come to you and listen to you and come home and listen to my parents, I dont know what to do, I dont feel 100%, Ill be stringing you along etc. Then she even jumps into breaking up again and wants to keep all the stuff I gave her and then she argues about that point when she hasnt even given it a chance when I told her no and whats the point if you dont want me no point in keeping a momento and likewise Id return all stuff back to you too, and she was unhappy about this too and started calling me names like stingy etc and saying its not right and im like if you dont want me whats the point in having momentos of me and she said because Im somebody she loved and i gave her to them etc etc etc.

I keep telling her give it that 1 last chance and when she was here we both agreed on it and decided it but when she went back her parents had a fight with her and told her shes stringing me along etc and isnt being true to herself nor to me and shes being the bad guy and what about this and that etc etc etc She had told them twice before she was going to break up with me and once she had changed her mind and this time again and they labelled her as wishy washy and stringing me along. I keep telling her to remember I went through a lot of pain and hurt and bad feelings etc but alhamdullilah I came back to you and I am now the person You wanted me to be after your shahada. 1 second she says yes I can see that then next second she says bad timing, too little too late, that person wouldnt have gone away etc. Then she goes back to the pain and despair she felt and that she was alone and she cant talk to me about her doubts and insecurities etc and yet again I assure her of everything etc. It just seemed like her parents are really ruining her :( It seemed like now she was questioning her point in being a muslim and deluding herself into thinking other things :(
And she wanted me to get angry and hung up etc paint me as the demon but I didnt do anything like that.

Even at the end I told her give it 1 last chance. Judge me based on now and vice versa and see if I wont be there for you and wont hold you when you fall down. She wanted time till saturday, which she was going to meet me on then said shed send all my stuff etc then she didnt want any contact then said sms is fine no calls etc. And I reiterated to her that I have never given up on her NEVER and had never decided to break up with her or abandon her etc. And assured her that what shes going through and her fears and temptations and urges are all natural and its the devil trying to lead her back down the wrong path and that she shouldnt listen to her parents whispering etc and decide things for herself. And we said our goodbyes.

Now Im all alone and this is hell of a new years day :( Im all alone in a country and land I hate and have no idea what to do. I feel hopeless and feel like all my good intentions and even though I came to the conclusions I did for her I was slapped backhandedly in the face. I have no idea what to do or how to assure her or anything else. I really do want to give it our best and judge from there because I know I have changed and have come to realise things.

I really dont want this to end this way and I want to give it my best. I have matured much and alhamdullilah understand much more. What can I do? How can I convince her to give it a shot? If I can do anything to calm her down and ease her heart and get her to think about things logically and give it 1 last try, Id love to hear it! I swear her parents seem to be the cause of all this fitnah!

[helping]

salam,
im glad the link was of help. i dont know what he did at the end.
since we are talkin about this stuff. Im just wonderin do girls find it easier 2 deal with someones past once they have repented. I feel guys have a harder time dealing with it?
or does it really just depend.?
btw im assuming the other partner is widout a past and has never been in a relationship.

[anonymousmind]

Dont know if anybody noticed the latest update but is there any advice on what I should do now? What should I do? What can I do?

[RandomGal]

I noticed your last post - personally I wouldnt waste my time with such a girl. But its obvious your hooked onto her. She's asked to break up with you countless times, but still your hanging on to her.

Its obvious, thats its not so much her salvation that your after. Your obviously into her, you cant expect her to take her deen seriously if you cant take your deen seriously.

If you really want her to convert and change her ways then ask her to join an Islamic class or spend time with practising sisters. This will show how serious you BOTH are about your deen.

Then worry about marriage - atm I think both of you are too emotionally messed up.

[Noor_Usman]

Asalamalikum.

I have to agree...it's gone backwards again. Leave now brother...there is nothing else you can do at this point.

[anonymousmind]

I noticed your last post - personally I wouldnt waste my time with such a girl. But its obvious your hooked onto her. She's asked to break up with you countless times, but still your hanging on to her.

Its obvious, thats its not so much her salvation that your after. Your obviously into her, you cant expect her to take her deen seriously if you cant take your deen seriously.

If you really want her to convert and change her ways then ask her to join an Islamic class or spend time with practising sisters. This will show how serious you BOTH are about your deen.

Then worry about marriage - atm I think both of you are too emotionally messed up.

She has only voiced that thought once only. Though she had apparently thought of voicing it twice before.

I dont blame her. I was cruel, inconsiderate and too preoccupied with my own hurt to see how much I was hurting her.

Ofcourse I would like her salvation but right now I have pushed her soo far and hurt her so much that shes questioning everything even questioning religion and who she is anymore based on me and what i did.. Last night I talked to her for hours and begged her. I have wronged her in many ways but was too obsessed to notice it all. I just want to correct that wrong and seek forgiveness from her for the hurt I caused. Ofcourse im into her otherwise I wouldnt be posting her for advice.

What would show my sincerity? What would ease and solace and comfort and reassure a womans broken heart?

[Noor_Usman]

Asalamalikum.

With all due respect brother...what will make you realise that if she has converted to Islam you should not be speaking to her for hours on end? :rubeyes: Your part in her life story is now done unless she will marry you and then continue to receive your help as her husband. You can no longer be her friend as you do not appear to have the correct mindset to act purely as a guardian (which not every Muslim will allow due to the free mixing but to be fair a lot of new female converts will have an established male Muslim friend who knew them before the change and will take on the role of elder brother to keep an eye on her until she is married).

[Pro_Candy]

Leave the girl alone! She has wanted to break it all off, and you keep coming at her. Give her some breathing room. Let her find out for herself if she's doing this for your sake or hers! She's probably sick of having you on her back, as well as her parents, she's probably racking her brains trying to figure out what to do and which direction to take.

Just leave the poor girl alone for a while. You've done your part, now back off and see how she handles things. If she sees that she has chosen Islam for her own sake, then that's great and inshaAllah you have a future together. But if she did it for you only, it won't last and you will only end up hurting yourself and her more by prolonging the situation.

[hanaa_al_muminah]

and remember bro,

""ÿou may like something which is bad 4u and u dislike something which is good 4u, allah knows and u dont"" surah baqarah (sorry cnt remember the verse)

maybe its jus not meant 2b.........

[PiElle2]

bro... you are really got a handful at the moment, my heart goes out to you. and that's only dealing with 'A' female. Just the "ONE" and you are having such a tough time...

there seem to be alot that you do not see... like what are the differences between men and women, how to deal with relationships and with converts, and with converts' family... but one thing for sure, she is having a hard time too... wanting to be you, yet unsure what the future will be like, and i'm sure she's terrified what if her family really disown her...? plus she's only young right... so bear in mind she's not matured, neither are you. and both of you could really mess this up big time. maybe you might want get some counselling together at the masjid or something so you both have proper understanding about Islam and how to deal with such situation. it's a challenge in your life but it's worth to go find out.

the best a man can do for a lady is always be there to help and listen... and let time help her understand herself and her own situation better... so it requires a lot of patience from you. if you do not have it, then do not pressure her to be with you, but you can still help her out on the religion, by getting her to a proper class, or better still, got to classes with her.

the part you mentioned to keep it amicable is good, just no need to make any unneccessary arrangments or promises at the moment. try to make each other understand more about Islam, life, marriages, and perhaps then it'll be easier for both of you to make decisions later on...

you mentioned you are all alone in a foreign country...? have you ever thought you might be using her to fill you own gap... and that makes you think she's the 'ONE' for you...?

you have to help her family to understand Islam too if they are going to be your future family-in-law. even if it's not going to be so, it's your duty to give dawah and give them a good understanding of the religion and not make a female's life miserable with her family. dun force her to cover her head if it's against her wish because that is not the only thing or be-all for a muslim female. understanding the religion is more important. you cannot treat a convert the same as a born muslim.

just be around to assist her, help her... show her what Islam truly is...

you have a big job to do, bro.... we count on you to show them what Islam is about.

May Allah guide you and grant you strength and wisdom. Ameen.

[Sabr&Shukr]

Salaams
I have read the whole thread with interest. I dont want to go back over certain things others have said and I have read your latest post about the situation.
Now you yourself have done a 180 on her ( turn around on your attitude to her) YOU should read this thread from beginning to end...your answer lies in it:
Leave her be.
You talk so much about her past - does she know every detail about you? you say you are virgin ( alhamdulillah) but are you as pure as the driven snow?? I dont want an answer to that but as I was once that girl you are discussing there are several points I wish to make:

1. A woman's chastity does not make her. If you were to marry a divorcee, a widow or a rape victim - you would not be her first either. Deal with it - when you became her friend, you knew this, when you helped her with Islam you knew this, when you decided you wanted to marry her you knew this. Her excuse, her perfect excuse that is acceptable to Allah swt is that she was in ignorance in that time. Why is an excuse that is good enough for Allah swt not good enough for you?!?

2. In one sentence you say she had 5 BFS and 2 sexual partners - and then you liken her to a porn star??!?! what??!!! No wonder she lies to you - she is ashamed of her past in front of Allah swt but you have also made her ashamed beyond what she should be. I dont like to be harsh but you have an elevated opinion of yourself brother when you tell us why she loves you and why she should love you. IF you showed her this entire thread - should she love you then?

3. and despite points 1 and 2 - Her sin have been erased - end of. She did a massive thing - a huge thing - do you know what that must have taken for her? do you know ? really? I was that girl once - and let me tell you do not take her lightly. She is a pearl to be treasured - treat her as one. Because when she took shahadah that day she did more in 5 minutes then you can really comprehend - do you know what it took for her to do that? do you know how she feels now? unsure of her identity copingh with massive change and whole new set of eyes? let me tell you its tough - and every day she makes it through insha'allah should be a day you praise her insha'allah.

4. You say you love her and are hung up because you wont be the first person she said I love you to - let me tell you something - YOU DON'T LOVE HER. Not really. You do not trust her, you are not comfortable with her, you think more about yourself then her, you think she is lying ( she has lied but as much as you say? 24/7? come on - she lied because you made her feel worthless ...) you have no faith in her and you have no respect for her. That is not love. In the same way she told some person once she loved them and thought she did - she didn't. And you dont love her. You just think you do and you want to. Yes many women ( and men ) convert to Islam as a formality - but why should that be her? Dont doubt her - if you doubt her , you will be the source of any wrongdoing that comes.

5. There are many many decent muslim sisters out there - go marry one of them. And leave this poor girl to marry someone more suited to her - its not meant to be between you - at least not until you scrutinise yourself to the same extent you have scrutinised her. You talk as if she does not deserve you - do you deserve her?

Im sorry I do not wish to sound harsh but I was once in her shoes. And now I have been muslim 4 years alhamdulillah, and married for 3. I am not the person I used to be. Allah swt guided me and things happend in ways I cant explain. I never thought this would be my life, but now I know better and I am forever grateful. And by side was my husband, he never pushed me, never disrespect me, never doubted me - he never asked me my past beyond what I wished to reveal and likewise I never asked him his - he trusted me and he loved me and alhamdulillah you need to take heed from a man such as my husband and handle this situation better. For now - you should leave her - finish it. For your sake and hers. If you are meant to be together Allah swt will bring you back together in the same way he bought the sister to Islam. Break away from her and just trust Him. Whatever happens it is best for you and her.
Wasalaams.

[Love&Peace]

Hi Brother,
I read updates on your thread.
If the girl does not want to continue, there is no point in convincing her to give i a try.
God bless you and help you to in difficult phase of your life.

[anonymousmind]

The girl has been extremely hurt by my actions and I do regret them. I have told her and shown her how sorry I am and that I have changed. She said shed give me another try.

Her parents seemed to put her under a lot of strain. 1. They aint happy with her being with me because of what she told them I have done and put her through and 2. They have kind of convinced her that she can never be a muslim and can never change. 3. They have a thing against being muslim with their own predigces

She has eaten non halal meat and probably pork and had been after her conversion though she told me she didnt. And she had drunk too.
However I think maybe those are all my faults for having forced her soooo far and having put her through soooo much pain and suffering and her parents pulling her apart.

She also said she thinks she converted for me because she would have done anything for me to see her now. She said shes not sure she can be a muslim. She said shes not pure and clean anymore because she drank and ate pork etc. Im not sure but I think maybe its all because of how hurt and lonely and sad and hopeless she must have felt?


I would like to see if I could meet her parents but have no idea how to deal with that situation because she would not have told them specifics or why maybe i did some things etc. I am wrong and was wrong and am sorry and regretful for what I did and want them to see and know that too. Maybe then the poor girl might have some peace of mind atleast from her parents because they have threatened to kick her out of the house if she continued to see me. I want to show them how sorry I am. I want to show them I have changed. But they may also ask probing questions like why I did certain things or why i acted like so but i cant tell them of her past or other issues so I dont know how to explain things..

Any ideas on what I should do?

[Noor_Usman]

With all due respect we've already told you brother....

It will not change our opinion no matter how many more posts you put, unless you came back in say 6months time with a completely different out look :)

[PiElle2]

The girl has been extremely hurt by my actions and I do regret them. I have told her and shown her how sorry I am and that I have changed. She said shed give me another try.

Her parents seemed to put her under a lot of strain. 1. They aint happy with her being with me because of what she told them I have done and put her through and 2. They have kind of convinced her that she can never be a muslim and can never change. 3. They have a thing against being muslim with their own predigces

She has eaten non halal meat and probably pork and had been after her conversion though she told me she didnt. And she had drunk too.
However I think maybe those are all my faults for having forced her soooo far and having put her through soooo much pain and suffering and her parents pulling her apart.

She also said she thinks she converted for me because she would have done anything for me to see her now. She said shes not sure she can be a muslim. She said shes not pure and clean anymore because she drank and ate pork etc. Im not sure but I think maybe its all because of how hurt and lonely and sad and hopeless she must have felt?


I would like to see if I could meet her parents but have no idea how to deal with that situation because she would not have told them specifics or why maybe i did some things etc. I am wrong and was wrong and am sorry and regretful for what I did and want them to see and know that too. Maybe then the poor girl might have some peace of mind atleast from her parents because they have threatened to kick her out of the house if she continued to see me. I want to show them how sorry I am. I want to show them I have changed. But they may also ask probing questions like why I did certain things or why i acted like so but i cant tell them of her past or other issues so I dont know how to explain things..

Any ideas on what I should do?


well... very simple bro... all along you wanted her to prove to be a good muslimah to you. now the table has turned. you have to prove her, her family and all of us here what a good muslim guy you can be, worthy for her to be with you.

no one can ever be a hero trying the change the past but can only bravely look and work on the present and future.

you know what, you are still so hung up by her past as proven in the last sentence of your last post. this is not considered a change. a change in you means you do not even think, speak or feel about her past. can you do it? can you do such a simple thing? if not, how can you expect others to change overnight?

and if she has not changed for the better, it's also because of you, cos you are not really helping her... but pushing her back to her past. therefore, the main thing here is "DO NOT MENTION ABOUT HER PAST". do not even tell her you are not going to mention her past. Just zipped it up and throw it away else all this is going to be thrown away by yourself anyway.

she is not unclean, she does not feel it, she's only saying it because you make her feel that way. other muslim guy may not give her the same grieve. you have damaged her self-esteem because of your selfish desire. it is your fault, but move on, no need to harp on it.

no need to show how sorry you are or were, work on yourself, bro, and show them what a great muslim guy you are. if you dun know how... read, learn, study and practise until you are one everyone can be proud of.

you are a better person only when situation around turn for the better, that's when you have really change. not just be saying, but by results from your own practise and actions.

you can criticise and get hurt by other's poor behaviour by hurting others, let's see how well you yourself can perform from now on.

may Allah guide you.

[anonymousmind]

PiElle2 Her past is gone and not an issue anymore. What i was merely stating in that sentence was that she had told her parents things and since I dont want to discuss anything about any past what should i do if they try to get information out of me? what should i do if they keep quizzing me or try trapping me by saying well she said she did this and you did....etc?



all I want to do is apologise sincerely and accept fault and responsibility and go from there.


her past is of no consequence infact what past? she was born a new and so states allah too and thats more than enough for me. everybody makes mistakes and all we can do is try to learn from them and improve but we cant change our past merely regret learn and change from it.


noor_usman: I dont get it sister. My outlook had already completely changed. What more can I do?

[PiElle2]

Bro, sorry if i have misunderstood you.

Admit to her and her family that you yourself do not have a proper understanding of what does it mean to be a convert, how does it work and how does it feel, apologise for that and you assure them you will try your best from now on to understand and help...

I feel the best is for you all to get an iman, or ustaz, one who is good and gentle with converts, to help... and let him be the teacher and guide in your development as well... so it'll be good to suggest it to them too... :)

the reason why i'm saying this is because where we are, we have marriage counselling course for converts here, and they can only marry each other after attending and getting a cert for the course... so it's something you both have to do should you decide to get married. is it the same for where you are?

[anonymousmind]

Pielle2 I dont think you have read the whole thread or maybe you misunderstood some points?

Her parents are totally against her conversion and have put doubts in her mind. They dont want her to cover up, stop drinking etc but rather do whatever she wants. So me talking about religion or convincing them etc based on religion will do nothing. They to start with dont want her to be a muslim and have these biased ideas of islam too.

[Noor_Usman]

noor_usman: I dont get it sister. My outlook had already completely changed. What more can I do?

It's a 2 way deal brother. If she is going off the wall and is so confused she wont listen to you anymore then there's nothing more you can do. She has to help herself as well to a degree.
Until/unless she's willing to listen to you, you can't help her.

And I wouldn't advise going OTT "look at me I'm a muslim" if you do meet her parents. All they really want to know is that you'll respect their daughter and her w