Assume there is an islamic state

[MNK]

Lets assume there is a fully islamic state with an islamic Khilafah. Would then:

- Kaafirs be allowed to live there ( i assume yes?)
- would the trade of pork and alcohol be allowed? (i.e. for the kaafirs?)
- would anyone be allowed to preach anything other than islam?

I am interested in knowing the answers to the above since Islam allows other people to follow their religion (i.e. there is no compulsions in Islam). But do they have to follow their religion within the boundaries of Islam (if living in an Islamic state?)

Jazakallah

[`asiya]

check this out insha Allah well worth a read :up:

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/374/viewall/

[MNK]

thanks for the above, in general the answer appears to be YES, they can practice how their faith sees fit..

However, how would this apply where it would affect muslims.. e.g. in some religions where you don't have to dress modestly.i.e. muslim men would be exposed to scantily dressed women.

Or what about, say, the current situation of children being sacrificed for the hindu idol 'kali' .. would this still be allowed as part of kaafirs to practice their religion..

i.e. what is the limit?

[`asiya]

thanks for the above, in general the answer appears to be YES, they can practice how their faith sees fit..

However, how would this apply where it would affect muslims.. e.g. in some religions where you don't have to dress modestly.i.e. muslim men would be exposed to scantily dressed women.

Or what about, say, the current situation of children being sacrificed for the hindu idol 'kali' .. would this still be allowed as part of kaafirs to practice their religion..

i.e. what is the limit?

It applies to people of the book, those who adhere to what is left of the teachings of the torah and the injeel , no practising church going christian will tell u that it is acceptable for her to walk out in a mini skirt and her chest on display, she will dress modestly, no practising christian will get drunk, same for the jews u see the practising jews their women dress modestly they cover their hair and so on, they will not have sex outside of marriage etc. they do not beleive adultery and fornication are permissible nor homosexuality, because their rules are still very similar to ours, but were talking about christians and jews, and not those type of christians who just say they are christians and who happen to turn up in church three times in their lives, once to be christened once to be married and once to be buried.. of course those who behave immoraly will be advised insha Allah.

mushriks are a whole different kettle of fish and no they cannot practise that amongst the muslims in the muslim lands. Allah ta ala ordered the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam to fight the mushrikeen until they sumbit to al islam, and the christians and jews until they accept to pay the jiziyah and live under islamic rule, its a very small amount, less then the zakat the muslims have to pay every year, and the christians and jews get exempted from being draughted into the muslim armies, and have the full protection of the muslims and their armies in regards to their lives wealth families and property and justice. The prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam told us that the one who settles within the firelight of the mushrikeen then he is disowned by the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam.

subhanAllah and we can clearly see the wisdom in that, when we look at the state of the practices of many muslims from india and its surrounding lands, biddah and shirk going on in so many things following the cultural ways of the mushrikeen, forced marriages, arranged marriages with no say for the parties invloved, hating to give birth to female children, preferring their sons over their daughters opressive practises and punishments for women all of this is nothing from islam but has arisen from the muslims living amongst the mushrikeen till they left behind they own ways.

[Skavau]

And what of those irreligious, asiya?

[`asiya]

And what of those irreligious, asiya?

Allahu alam (Allah knows best ) i dont know about that sorry, have to ask someone with more knowledge insha Allah.

[dhakiyya]

I think the way Saudi deals with non Muslims living there is good... if they live on the compound, whislt they're on the compound they can follow their own dress codes - wheras if they choose to live outside the compound or to go outside the compound to go places, they must follow the minimum requirements for dress (in Saudi women must wear the abaya but non Muslim women don't have to wear the headscarf)

I think a future caliphate inshaAllah would be sensible to consider this way of dealing with non Muslims. Its a good compromise and the non Muslims are quite happy to live on the compound separate from Muslims for their daily lives, and they still have the option of living outside the compound but obviously would have to observe more of the Islamic rules.

[MNK]

...The prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam told us that the one who settles within the firelight of the mushrikeen then he is disowned by the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam.

.

so does this mean that all muslims living in the West (i.e. US, UK etc) fall in the above category?

Also since Islam protects the rights of people of the book, I guess this excludes other kaafirs such as Hindus etc?

But surely that would not make it lawful for muslims to steal, etc from them?

The link you provided before doesn't state anywhere that other kaafirs are excluded from their rights and islam's protection etc...

Jazakallah for clarification

[neelu]

Kafirs would be allowed to live in an Islamic state (although they're not allowed in Mecca). They would be permitted to make and drink alcohol for their own consumption, but are strictly forbidden from selling it to Muslims and they would be permitted to follow their own religion in matters of worship and preach their religion in their houses of worship, but would not be allowed to propagate their religion to the Muslim community.

[miss-islamic]

The prophet (saw) said that eating pigs and drinking alcohal to the Christians is how goat and vinegar is to us (muslims). So they are allowed to eat it because it is allowed in their religion and we shouldn't look down upon them for it. (Source: A recent lecture I heard by a famous Muslim scholar)

[MNK]

Kafirs would be allowed to live in an Islamic state (although they're not allowed in Mecca). They would be permitted to make and drink alcohol for their own consumption, but are strictly forbidden from selling it to Muslims and they would be permitted to follow their own religion in matters of worship and preach their religion in their houses of worship, but would not be allowed to propagate their religion to the Muslim community.

if they would not be allowed to propagate their religion to us (by that I assume preach it to us) then how would we justify propogating ours to them i.e. if you approach a kaafir and try to talk to him/her about Islam they might turn back and say ' you forbid us to preach to you so why should we listen to you ?' :confused:

[Cartman]

if they would not be allowed to propagate their religion to us (by that I assume preach it to us) then how would we justify propogating ours to them i.e. if you approach a kaafir and try to talk to him/her about Islam they might turn back and say ' you forbid us to preach to you so why should we listen to you ?' :confused:

allowing a kuffar to preach his religion among masses of muslims, is like letting an anarchist speak in the middle of a governmental rally

[Z-Blade]

:salams,

As far as I know, no kafir would be allowed to commit shirk in the Islamic State.

Wassalam.

[hammerofthehuns]

Kafirs would be allowed to live in an Islamic state (although they're not allowed in Mecca). They would be permitted to make and drink alcohol for their own consumption, but are strictly forbidden from selling it to Muslims and they would be permitted to follow their own religion in matters of worship and preach their religion in their houses of worship, but would not be allowed to propagate their religion to the Muslim community.

no way would they be allowed 2 make alcolhol in an Islamic state

[hammerofthehuns]

The prophet (saw) said that eating pigs and drinking alcohal to the Christians is how goat and vinegar is to us (muslims). So they are allowed to eat it because it is allowed in their religion and we shouldn't look down upon them for it. (Source: A recent lecture I heard by a famous Muslim scholar)

no they wouldnt be allowed at all

[Cartman]

yes they'd be allowed to eat what is lawful to them in their own compounds

[Cashew]

no way would they be allowed 2 make alcolhol in an Islamic state

You seem strangely unaware of the fact that wine is used in the Celebration of the Holy Eucharist, and that wine is customarily used in the observance of many Jewish holidays.

As far as I'm aware, no Muslim government in Islam's history has forbidden Jews and Christians either to make or use wine.

[hammerofthehuns]

where they gonna get beer and sausages in an Islamic state

[Cartman]

where they gonna get beer and sausages in an Islamic state

How do you know they wouldnt live on land where those resources are available to them.

[Cashew]

where they gonna get beer and sausages in an Islamic state

Neither beer nor sausages are sanctioned by Canon Law for use in the Celebration of the Holy Eucharist.

[hammerofthehuns]

How do you know they wouldnt live on land where those resources are available to them.

so ur saying that pigs and hops cant survive in Saudi

[hammerofthehuns]

Neither beer nor sausages are sanctioned by Canon Law for use in the Celebration of the Holy Eucharist.

what has that got 2 do with anything

[Cartman]

so ur saying that pigs and hops cant survive in Saudi

what?

[hammerofthehuns]

the only reason theres no pigs or vineyards in Saudi is because their haraam, so theres no need 4 them 2 be there, not for muslims nor christians.

[Cartman]

the only reason theres no pigs or vineyards in Saudi is because their haraam, so theres no need 4 them 2 be there, not for muslims nor christians.

Who says its haram for Christians

[hammerofthehuns]

Allah

[Cashew]

so ur saying that pigs and hops cant survive in Saudi

You're starting to sound a little hysterical.

Outside camels, goats, and a few species of draught-resistant plants, very little can survive in Saudi Arabia without extraordinary measures.

Why you would isolate hops as potentially viable for Saudi Arabia is a mystery.

[hammerofthehuns]

i reckon if a goat can hack it in Saudi, a pig can too.
dont know what ur second point is, its a bit obtuse.
hows disagreeing with u and correcting u being hysterical?

[Cashew]

For the sake of argument, let's consider "vineyards" in Saudi Arabia.

Why would they be forbidden? Are grapes haram?

Did you know that it's possible to make perfectly tasty wine from apricots, peaches, plums, and even pomegranates?

Did you know that dates can be used to produce alcohol?

Are you able to produce a single instance from 1300 years of Islamic history in which a Muslim government prohibited dhimmi from making alcohol for their own consumption?

[hammerofthehuns]

fair enough, no problem with growing grapes if ur gonna eat them obviously.
therell be no doubt plenty of instances in those 1300yrs of dhimmis getting a good lashing for making alcohol.

[Cashew]

fair enough, no problem with growing grapes if ur gonna eat them obviously.
therell be no doubt plenty of instances in those 1300yrs of dhimmis getting a good lashing for making alcohol.

Where are these instances?

I keep waiting for you to offer a few.

Jews have made and used wine for ritual observance throughout the entire history of Judaism. For at least 1300 years Jews lived in Muslim lands.

The same holds true for Christians. Both the Roman and Eastern Orthodox Churches use wine in the Celebration of the Holy Eucharist.

[Leena_Cnd]

Neither beer nor sausages are sanctioned by Canon Law
for use in the Celebration of the Holy Eucharist.
I don't want to get off topic however, as for
Eastern orthodox/Greek orthodox/Catholic services . .
after holiday fasting, (easter/christmas holidays),
the 1rst meal usually consists a blessed basket
of ham :torture:, paska bread (fermented egg bread), and boiled eggs.
. . . sausage wouldn't be much different than
ham or kobaska. :vomit:


~

[forever_shadow]

I think the way Saudi deals with non Muslims living there is good... if they live on the compound, whislt they're on the compound they can follow their own dress codes - wheras if they choose to live outside the compound or to go outside the compound to go places, they must follow the minimum requirements for dress (in Saudi women must wear the abaya but non Muslim women don't have to wear the headscarf)

I think a future caliphate inshaAllah would be sensible to consider this way of dealing with non Muslims. Its a good compromise and the non Muslims are quite happy to live on the compound separate from Muslims for their daily lives, and they still have the option of living outside the compound but obviously would have to observe more of the Islamic rules.

What a great idea! Sounds exciting. Let's flip it and see how the other side looks to you . . .

I think the way Western states deals with Muslims living there is good... if they live on the compound, whislt they're on the compound they can follow their own dress codes - wheras if they choose to live outside the compound or to go outside the compound to go places, they must follow the free requirements for dress (in Western states women must dress like westerners and Muslim women cannot wear the headscarf - I think they tried this in France - how's that working out?)


I think a future democracy would be sensible to consider this way of dealing with Muslims. Its a good compromise and the Muslims are quite happy to live on the compound separate from non-Muslims for their daily lives, and they still have the option of living outside the compound but obviously would have to observe more of the western rules.

Works the other way around too. :up:

[Leena_Cnd]

~
I believe the west already incorporates such,
as in nudist camps,
gay bathhouses, private schools, ect . . .


~

[saifah]

in an islamic state the kuffar can only live there if they pay the jizziya and adhere to the restrictions that islam propegates they must obey the khalifah and they are not allowed to do anything a muslim isnt allowed they must cover the minimum requirments wich is hijab and abaya the slave women in the time of rasulallah salallahu alayhi wassalam use to wear hijab and the free women use to wear niqaab that was the distinguished difference amongst them
they wouldnt be able to teach their religion but they are able to practice it in the privacy of their homes they arent allowed to go out and around having meetings and learning from one another and this is the boundries set by Allah and his rasool
and if u actually look into the bible in the old testament it forbids the consumption of swine if any of u doubt me go buy some ahmed dedat may Allah have mercy on him and make his grave a compfort and ease for him Ameen
he talks and debates with priests and so on and he uses the quran and bible
i think alot of u should actually look at the quran and sunnah befor u answer and not state ur opinions islam isnt based on logic or opinion so be very carefull befor u start to make what Allah orderd harram hallal and vice versa
and Allah knows best
may He forgive us all for our mistakes Ameen
may He increase us in knowledge Ameen

[hammerofthehuns]

Where are these instances?

I keep waiting for you to offer a few.

Jews have made and used wine for ritual observance throughout the entire history of Judaism. For at least 1300 years Jews lived in Muslim lands.

The same holds true for Christians. Both the Roman and Eastern Orthodox Churches use wine in the Celebration of the Holy Eucharist.

how am i going 2 have thair names and addresses exactly?

My uncles a priest and the stuff he uses, u could drink it all day and not get drunk as its alcohol fee.

alcohol is haraam in Islam, therefore has no place in an Islamic society, simple as.

[Cashew]

...Alcohol is haraam in Islam, therefore has no place in an Islamic society, simple as. ...

For better or worse, Islam isn't based on what Hammerofhuns happens to think or feel.

What you're saying simply doesn't make sense.

Eating during Ramadan fasting-time has no place in an Islamic society, either.

But I don't think Muslims at any time in Islamic history have ever forced dhimmi to fast during Ramadan.

Praying to the Blessed Virgin Mary for her intercession has no place in an Islamic society, either.

But I don't think Muslims have at any time in Islamic history forbidden Christian dhimmi from praying to the Blessed Mother.

[hammerofthehuns]

fasting ramadaan isnt part of christianity.
Islam allows 4 the christians and jews 2 practice their religion and fasting ramadaan isnt part of either of them and if they wanna pray 2 Maryam then thats their problem, as long as they dont call muslims 2 it.
on the other hand, alcohol is illegal in Islam, its expressly forbidden in the sharia and as Islam came for all mankind no muslim can facilitate someone in drinking it regardless of wether that person accepts the Qur'an or not.

btw im not sure christians and jews are permitted 2 eat drink and smoke openly during the ramadaan fast in the sharia, im sure this is the case even now in some middle east countries.

[_ZEN_]

Insha Allah there will never ever be an islamic state :)

[Leena_Cnd]

Eating during Ramadan fasting-time has no place in an
Islamic society, either.
But I don't think Muslims at any time in Islamic history
have ever forced dhimmi to fast during Ramadan.
Publicly is one matter, privately is another.
Publicly all (visitors, citizens, Muslim or non)
must give respect to the laws of the country.

This might help you with some of the basics :
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/reluae03.html


~

[forever_shadow]

Insha Allah there will never ever be an islamic state :)

AMEN. :up:

[forever_shadow]

in an islamic state the kuffar can only live there if they pay the jizziya and adhere to the restrictions that islam propegates they must obey the khalifah and they are not allowed to do anything a muslim isnt allowed they must cover the minimum requirments wich is hijab and abaya the slave women in the time of rasulallah salallahu alayhi wassalam use to wear hijab and the free women use to wear niqaab that was the distinguished difference amongst them
they wouldnt be able to teach their religion but they are able to practice it in the privacy of their homes they arent allowed to go out and around having meetings and learning from one another and this is the boundries set by Allah and his rasool


This is one reason why I do not like Islam and if that makes me an Islamaphobe, then so be it. I cannot understand how this is JUSTIFIED in anyone's head when if such practices were forced upon Muslims, which some of them claim they are, you wage jihad aginst the Opressors. Don't you think if you ever achieve your inhumane Islamic state that people will rebel against it? You are living in a dream world if you think this sounds fine and dandy to an American who actually knows and feels and lives what FREEDOM is. Morality can and should never be dictated. Morality is a personal choice. An Islamic state takes choice away, leaving people at the mercy of elite dictators. History has shown that never ends well.

FREE MEN AND WOMEN WILL NEVER SUBMIT TO THIS RULE. EVER. It's NEVER gonna happen.

Muslims who go about their daily lives who: work, shop, socialize, eat, sleep, own property, pray, worship, marry, (etc.) and live their own lives get my respect. I even admire Muslim women who wear hijab BY CHOICE. The others crying for (and fighting, waging war and killing for) this opressive, inhumane, and morally corrupt theocracy . . . not so much. If that makes me an Islamophobe, so be it.

I don't argue the fact that there is need for law and order. However, there is no need for the morality of one religion to dictate how the rest of us should live. PERIOD. You wouldn't like it, so why inflict it on others? I'd like to read the Qur'an and find the passage where Allah demands his Islamic state. Where does it say in the Qur'an that other religions are not allowed to practice their own religion except in the privacy of their own home? Where does it say that a kuffar cannot drink alcohol and listen to music? Where does it say that?

Do Muslims not believe in free will at all? This is what baffles me. If something is harram the Islamic state removes it from society, i.e., alochol. Where is the free will? If a woman does not want to wear hijab, even though she KNOWS FULL WELL SHE SHOULD, does that mean she is forced to wear it against her will? Does she not have a choice? I'm getting off topic here sorry but it makes no sense to me. end rant.

[Z-Blade]

Insha Allah there will never ever be an islamic state :)

Very correct about inshaAllah ;).

Peace out.

[saifah]

This is one reason why I do not like Islam and if that makes me an Islamaphobe, then so be it. I cannot understand how this is JUSTIFIED in anyone's head when if such practices were forced upon Muslims, which some of them claim they are, you wage jihad aginst the Opressors. Don't you think if you ever achieve your inhumane Islamic state that people will rebel against it? You are living in a dream world if you think this sounds fine and dandy to an American who actually knows and feels and lives what FREEDOM is. Morality can and should never be dictated. Morality is a personal choice. An Islamic state takes choice away, leaving people at the mercy of elite dictators. History has shown that never ends well.

FREE MEN AND WOMEN WILL NEVER SUBMIT TO THIS RULE. EVER. It's NEVER gonna happen.

Muslims who go about their daily lives who: work, shop, socialize, eat, sleep, own property, pray, worship, marry, (etc.) and live their own lives get my respect. I even admire Muslim women who wear hijab BY CHOICE. The others crying for (and fighting, waging war and killing for) this opressive, inhumane, and morally corrupt theocracy . . . not so much. If that makes me an Islamophobe, so be it.

I don't argue the fact that there is need for law and order. However, there is no need for the morality of one religion to dictate how the rest of us should live. PERIOD. You wouldn't like it, so why inflict it on others? I'd like to read the Qur'an and find the passage where Allah demands his Islamic state. Where does it say in the Qur'an that other religions are not allowed to practice their own religion except in the privacy of their own home? Where does it say that a kuffar cannot drink alcohol and listen to music? Where does it say that?

Do Muslims not believe in free will at all? This is what baffles me. If something is harram the Islamic state removes it from society, i.e., alochol. Where is the free will? If a woman does not want to wear hijab, even though she KNOWS FULL WELL SHE SHOULD, does that mean she is forced to wear it against her will? Does she not have a choice? I'm getting off topic here sorry but it makes no sense to me. end rant.

i will make it simple for u because obviosly u are simple minded if a person doesnt want to follow islam then obviously they are not a muslim so that is their choice and any women that wear hijab isnt choosing to she is doing it because she has to and if the kuffar dont want to live under the khalifah fine then dont go to the muslim country if u want to do ur filthy abominating acts of infadelity thats ur choice do it in ur filthy abominating country and inshaAllah Allah will destroy it like He did to the people of thamud,'Ad anf lut and still u dont take heed al Hamdulillah
i dont want toguide the one whom Allah has left to go astray
i dont understand why u come and try to make a debate out of this topic the muslims are muslims because they chose to submit to islam and obey the orders set buy Allah and anyone who doesnt want to do that then dont be muslim and dont live in their lands simple
dont try and debate it there is nothing to debate about
if u dont become muslim all of ur joy and luxery is in this life and eternal demnation in the next
the hayat ad-dunya is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the kuffar

[GothiKa]

You are living in a dream world if you think this sounds fine and dandy to an American who actually knows and feels and lives what FREEDOM is. Morality can and should never be dictated. Morality is a personal choice. An Islamic state takes choice away, leaving people at the mercy of elite dictators. History has shown that never ends well.

FREE MEN AND WOMEN WILL NEVER SUBMIT TO THIS RULE. EVER. It's NEVER gonna happen.

If there were an Islamic state, and you unfortunately happened to live in it, then, as a good Christian, you would "give unto Cesar what belongs to Cesar, and give unto God what belongs to God". In other words, you have to live by the rules of the state. I'm sure you would rather become a non-Christian than live as a subservient Christian (as per the bible). :rolleyes:

No man or woman in the world is free. You are only truly free when you have to answer to no one. Do you have to answer to anyone, forever shadow?

By the way, you have said much about Shariah which is false. I will get to that as soon as you respond to this post.

[GothiKa]

Insha Allah there will never ever be an islamic state

Are you that dumb Bengali kid I used to debate at whyislam?

[Ibn Sina]

Are you that dumb Bengali kid I used to debate at whyislam?

lol :rolleyes:

[_ZEN_]

Are you that dumb Bengali kid I used to debate at whyislam?
I'm neither bangali kid nor do I know about whyislam ...

But if you wanna call me 'dump', go ahead ... others wanna kill me, ya kno ;)

[_ZEN_]

This is one reason why I do not like Islam and if that makes me an Islamaphobe, then so be it. I cannot understand how this is JUSTIFIED in anyone's head when if such practices were forced upon Muslims, which some of them claim they are, you wage jihad aginst the Opressors. Don't you think if you ever achieve your inhumane Islamic state that people will rebel against it? You are living in a dream world if you think this sounds fine and dandy to an American who actually knows and feels and lives what FREEDOM is. Morality can and should never be dictated. Morality is a personal choice. An Islamic state takes choice away, leaving people at the mercy of elite dictators. History has shown that never ends well.

FREE MEN AND WOMEN WILL NEVER SUBMIT TO THIS RULE. EVER. It's NEVER gonna happen.

Muslims who go about their daily lives who: work, shop, socialize, eat, sleep, own property, pray, worship, marry, (etc.) and live their own lives get my respect. I even admire Muslim women who wear hijab BY CHOICE. The others crying for (and fighting, waging war and killing for) this opressive, inhumane, and morally corrupt theocracy . . . not so much. If that makes me an Islamophobe, so be it.

I don't argue the fact that there is need for law and order. However, there is no need for the morality of one religion to dictate how the rest of us should live. PERIOD. You wouldn't like it, so why inflict it on others? I'd like to read the Qur'an and find the passage where Allah demands his Islamic state. Where does it say in the Qur'an that other religions are not allowed to practice their own religion except in the privacy of their own home? Where does it say that a kuffar cannot drink alcohol and listen to music? Where does it say that?

Do Muslims not believe in free will at all? This is what baffles me. If something is harram the Islamic state removes it from society, i.e., alochol. Where is the free will? If a woman does not want to wear hijab, even though she KNOWS FULL WELL SHE SHOULD, does that mean she is forced to wear it against her will? Does she not have a choice? I'm getting off topic here sorry but it makes no sense to me. end rant.
Hey shadow,
don't worry too much. there are many Muslims who'll rebel against such Islamic state and won't accept it. And here I'm not talking just about lay Muslims, but even scholars. For example, I've encountered many well-educated scholars (male and female) who don't consider the 'hijab' to be "God's command" but rather a cultural habit that got into the mentality of orthodox scholars later on in history. I've seen such scholars in Turkey, Iran, Egypt, USA, Australia, etc. The same applies to the issue of "music".

The "Islamic state" discussed in this thread is of a sub-sect portion who wanna control the rest of Muslims and non-Muslims. They're demanding a stone-aged barbaric talibani-like state ;)

[PiElle2]

Hey shadow,
don't worry too much. there are many Muslims who'll rebel against such Islamic state and won't accept it. And here I'm not talking just about lay Muslims, but even scholars. For example, I've encountered many well-educated scholars (male and female) who don't consider the 'hijab' to be "God's command" but rather a cultural habit that got into the mentality of orthodox scholars later on in history. I've seen such scholars in Turkey, Iran, Egypt, USA, Australia, etc. The same applies to the issue of "music".

The "Islamic state" discussed in this thread is of a sub-sect portion who wanna control the rest of Muslims and non-Muslims. They're demanding a stone-aged barbaric talibani-like state ;)

and you sure know/want how to control the situation here... LOL.

[forever_shadow]

If there were an Islamic state, and you unfortunately happened to live in it, then, as a good Christian, you would "give unto Cesar what belongs to Cesar, and give unto God what belongs to God". In other words, you have to live by the rules of the state. I'm sure you would rather become a non-Christian than live as a subservient Christian (as per the bible). :rolleyes:



If there was ever a bona fide threat to my freedom, I'd take up arms and fight on the front lines and I would die for others and fight for their freedom.


No man or woman in the world is free. You are only truly free when you have to answer to no one. Do you have to answer to anyone, forever shadow?

I don't agree. I am free. I am a US citizen. I love my freedom. Yes there are laws for the greater good, but my morality is not dictated to me. I could choose to be a Muslim tomorrow and suffer no consquences from the state. I could choose to become an atheist soon thereafter and no one will be able to say boo about it. I am free.

By the way, you have said much about Shariah which is false. I will get to that as soon as you respond to this post.

Like what? I get my information right here from other Muslims. If it's wrong, correct them and give them a good finger-wagging for misrepresenting Islam to a kuffar like me.

[GothiKa]

If there was ever a bona fide threat to my freedom, I'd take up arms and fight on the front lines and I would die for others and fight for their freedom.That would be an unChristian thing to do, forever shadow. After all, your Lord prohibited one of his companions from raising his sword against the Romans, saying "those who live by the sword, die by the sword". Accept it, you-as a Christian-have no choice but to live by the rules of the state.

I don't agree. I am free. I am a US citizen. I love my freedom. Yes there are laws for the greater good, but my morality is not dictated to me. I could choose to be a Muslim tomorrow and suffer no consquences from the state. I could choose to become an atheist soon thereafter and no one will be able to say boo about it. I am free.As I have said, one is truly free when he/she answers to no one. Forever shadow, will you have to answer to anyone if, for instance, you kill a man?

Like what? I get my information right here from other Muslims. If it's wrong, correct them and give them a good finger-wagging for misrepresenting Islam to a kuffar like me.I find this statement of yours amusing

" Morality can and should never be dictated. Morality is a personal choice. An Islamic state takes choice away, leaving people at the mercy of elite dictators. History has shown that never ends well."

If morality is a choice which depends on the individual, why were the people of Lot destroyed for engaging in acts which they considered moral?

A society that does not value morality values immorality. Do you agree?

An Islamic state is based on piety. It makes sure that, for instance, young girls don't develop eating disorders and negative body perceptions because they don't fit the image of beautiful women presented by the media-a Western phenomenon. This is not freedom!
Sexual objectification of women is absent in a state governed by Shariah. Do you agree? If not, why?

[forever_shadow]

That would be an unChristian thing to do, forever shadow. After all, your Lord prohibited one of his companions from raising his sword against the Romans, saying "those who live by the sword, die by the sword". Accept it, you-as a Christian-have no choice but to live by the rules of the state.

As I have said, one is truly free when he/she answers to no one. Forever shadow, will you have to answer to anyone if, for instance, you kill a man?

I find this statement of yours amusing

" Morality can and should never be dictated. Morality is a personal choice. An Islamic state takes choice away, leaving people at the mercy of elite dictators. History has shown that never ends well."

If morality is a choice which depends on the individual, why were the people of Lot destroyed for engaging in acts which they considered moral?

A society that does not value morality values immorality. Do you agree?

An Islamic state is based on piety. It makes sure that, for instance, young girls don't develop eating disorders and negative body perceptions because they don't fit the image of beautiful women presented by the media-a Western phenomenon. This is not freedom!
Sexual objectification of women is absent in a state governed by Shariah. Do you agree? If not, why?


you have a very twisted way of looking at things.

An Islamic state takes away free will. It dictates to society as a whole what it can and cannot do.

God has given us rules to live by. We either follow them and go to heaven or disobey and face His judgment. I do not answer to the state on issues of morality. If I want a ham sandwich, I'm gonna eat one. I will face God on the day of judgment. I stand before HIM and HIM alone.

There is need for law for a civil society. However, there is a difference between making someone adhere to RELIGIOUS LAW, i.e., not drinking alcohol, not eating pork, etc. and CIVIL LAW.

Morality should not be dictated. At all. I have free will and I intend to use it. I face God on my day of judgment not a bunch of Islamic clerics who feel justified in stoning me to death because I didn't follow THEIR God's laws.

[GothiKa]

An Islamic state takes away free will. It dictates to society as a whole what it can and cannot do.

Only Allah is sovereign. You are either a slave of God, or you are a slave of man.

Let's look at freedom from a panoramic perspective. Are sovereign states really sovereign?

[forever_shadow]

Only Allah is sovereign. You are either a slave of God, or you are a slave of man.


Not everyone believes in God, or in Allah for that matter so to dictate to everyone who does not believe takes away their own free will. No one has the right to take away anyone else's free will. If a person sins and breaks one of God's commandments, that is between them and God not them and the State. An Islamic state takes the place of God, passing judgment down on its own people, something they claim man's law does.


And yes states are sovereign. However, they have certain international responsibilities towards other states in a civilized society, i.e., not to wage war on other nations for their own political gain and such.

[miss-islamic]

Forever shadow: It is westerners that have double standard. It is the west spreading and imposing their democracy and culture nowadays for there political and personal reason but here you are whining about Islam wanting to do that. Or did I miss the post where you criticize the west doing that i.e. imposing their democracy and culture (that other people see unethical and uncivilized)? :rolleyes: In an Islamic state the state in IS Islam and so, yes, you have to recognize the authority and superiority of Islam if you live in it just like people have to recognize the authority and superiority of secularism and democracy if you live in it. Unfortunately and surprisingly an Islamic state is run by religious and not western ones (:rolleyes: ) so people should stop asking questions and try to understand an Islamic state through a secular/democratic/western standpoints. Would you ask a secular state, which is, unlike the Islamic state, a separation of religion and state, why punishments God has ordained not enacted? :rolleyes: And, Russia is a secular sate and it doesn’t allow Christian missionaries, why would government based on Islam allow it?

[xris]

muslims have had many opprtunities to exert an islamic state but the reality is that it is an illusion of theological debate not pratical or self sustaining.the reality is that muslims give it lip sevice but not much else because in their hearts they know it could not work with mens inbuilt weaknessess.

[forever_shadow]

Forever shadow: It is westerners that have double standard. It is the west spreading and imposing their democracy and culture nowadays for there political and personal reason but here you are whining about Islam wanting to do that. Or did I miss the post where you criticize the west doing that i.e. imposing their democracy and culture (that other people see unethical and uncivilized)?

Good point actually. There are some foreign policies I agree with associated with the US and some that I do not agree with.


I have done research on Islam and how it does not work well with democracy. I am fully 100% aware of that fact. So I would like to clear something up.

I have no problem whatsoever with an Islamic state existing. What I have a problem with, is if that Islamic state ever comes into existence, it decides to expand its borders through war, violence and terror, making democratic states into Islamic states. As long as you live and let live I've got no problems with an Islamic state. If Muslims want to live under that kind of rule, who am I to tell them it's wrong FOR THEM? It is wrong for me and I have no intention whatsoever of submitting to such rule - I would rather die fighting for my freedom thank you, but I do not believe it is wrong for Muslims to follow Shariah law. I do think some issues should be re-examined through modern eyes because the times and technology has changed, and if the same conclusions apply so be it, but that is not for me to say. It is only a stated wish.

I hope I made my position clear. If not ask me and I can expand on this. :up:

[saifah]

the muslims established an islamic state in iraq about 1 year ago and they warned the kuffar from going there mashaAllah may Allah protect them all from the najis kuffar
and with the issue of knowledge on this forum majority speak from ther ignorance and not from islam if any of u wants to know buy a book dont learn from people who should still them self be learning something they dont even understand the soverity of what they are saying
and also majority of scholars are getting paid to twist and distort islam and alot of them are not even realy muslim

[Z-Blade]

the muslims established an islamic state in iraq about 1 year ago and they warned the kuffar from going there mashaAllah may Allah protect them all from the najis kuffar
and with the issue of knowledge on this forum majority speak from ther ignorance and not from islam if any of u wants to know buy a book dont learn from people who should still them self be learning something they dont even understand the soverity of what they are saying
and also majority of scholars are getting paid to twist and distort islam and alot of them are not even realy muslim

:salams ukhti,

It's quite true what you have said, apart from the part in bold. There are authentic ahadith which completely go against what you have said:

Hadith 3. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said "Without doubt my Ummah will never be gathered in misguidance. Whenever you see disagreement, then hold fast to the Sawad-e-Azam (the great majority)" [Ibne Majah]

Hadith 4. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said " Follow the way of the largest group of Muslims! For, he who deviates from this group will be thrown into Hell!" [Ibne Majah]

Hadith 5. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said "The devil continually pursues humans as a wolf pursues sheep. The wolf only dares to attack those sheep which have separated from the rest of the flock and are standing alone. And so, my followers and my devotees! Save yourselves from being caught in the traps of misguidance and firmly remain with the largest and most well known group of Muslims!" [ Imam Ahmed]

Hadith 6. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said " Allah will never allow my Ummah to unite upon misguidance and incorrect beliefs. Allah's mercy, blessings and protection are with the largest group of Muslims. And he who deviates from this largest group of Muslims will be thrown into Hell." [ Tirmizi]

Hadith 7. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said " He who deviates from the largest group of Muslims, even as much as a hand span, has himself cut off his connection with Islam." [Abu Daud, Imam Ahmed]

So it is clear the majority of the scholars are correct and good Muslims, I don't know where you got the idea they are not... Only a few so-called scholars are not really scholars.

Wassalam.

[saifah]

:salams ukhti,

It's quite true what you have said, apart from the part in bold. There are authentic ahadith which completely go against what you have said:

Hadith 3. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said "Without doubt my Ummah will never be gathered in misguidance. Whenever you see disagreement, then hold fast to the Sawad-e-Azam (the great majority)" [Ibne Majah]

Hadith 4. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said " Follow the way of the largest group of Muslims! For, he who deviates from this group will be thrown into Hell!" [Ibne Majah]

Hadith 5. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said "The devil continually pursues humans as a wolf pursues sheep. The wolf only dares to attack those sheep which have separated from the rest of the flock and are standing alone. And so, my followers and my devotees! Save yourselves from being caught in the traps of misguidance and firmly remain with the largest and most well known group of Muslims!" [ Imam Ahmed]

Hadith 6. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said " Allah will never allow my Ummah to unite upon misguidance and incorrect beliefs. Allah's mercy, blessings and protection are with the largest group of Muslims. And he who deviates from this largest group of Muslims will be thrown into Hell." [ Tirmizi]

Hadith 7. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said " He who deviates from the largest group of Muslims, even as much as a hand span, has himself cut off his connection with Islam." [Abu Daud, Imam Ahmed]

So it is clear the majority of the scholars are correct and good Muslims, I don't know where you got the idea they are not... Only a few so-called scholars are not really scholars.

Wassalam.

and what about the hadith wen rasoolullah salallahu alayhi wassalam said in the last days my ummah will become divided into sects and only one of them will be saved and they are ahlul sunnah
and the other hadith wen he salallahu alayhi wassalam said in the last days the people of knowledge will be taken away
and in another he salallahu alayhi wassalam said my ummah will be the minority of people and the majority will be followig their nuffs and huwwa

subhan Allah

[[ZEN]]

and what about the hadith wen rasoolullah salallahu alayhi wassalam said in the last days my ummah will become divided into sects and only one of them will be saved and they are ahlul sunnah
and the other hadith wen he salallahu alayhi wassalam said in the last days the people of knowledge will be taken away
and in another he salallahu alayhi wassalam said my ummah will be the minority of people and the majority will be followig their nuffs and huwwa

subhan Allah
Your problem is not that you classify yourself among the minority, but instead thinking that majority are following 'nuffs and hawwa'. The majority just have different rulings and views than you have.

Also, if you think from a minority-view, you shouldn't be really speaking about Islam state, coz at least an Islamic state should include the 'majority'. so, if you want an Islamic state run by the minority and imposed on the majority, that's just a wishful thinking.

[al-ghazalli]

and what about the hadith wen rasoolullah salallahu alayhi wassalam said in the last days my ummah will become divided into sects and only one of them will be saved and they are ahlul sunnah
and the other hadith wen he salallahu alayhi wassalam said in the last days the people of knowledge will be taken away
and in another he salallahu alayhi wassalam said my ummah will be the minority of people and the majority will be followig their nuffs and huwwa

The hadith as follows;

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “My community will experience everything that the Children of Israel had experienced, following in their footsteps exactly, so much so that if one of their number had approached his mother publicly for sex, one of my community will do the same. The Children of Israel divided into 72 sects. My community will divide into 73 sects, and all of them will be in the Hellfire save one...”

The last part of the hadith "all of them will be int he hellfire save one...has been disputed by many Ulema of Ilm al-Rijal...but that itself is a long topic which could fill hundreds of pages.

This hadîth is not recorded in either Sahîh al-Bukhârî or Sahîh Muslim. This by no means implies that the hadîth is unauthentic. However, it is possible that they did not mention it because it was not up to their arduous standards of authenticity.

The hadîth can be found in the four Sunan works and in Musnad Ahmad with different chains of transmission. Some scholars declared it to be authentic or at least good, including al-Tirmidhî, al-Hâkim, al-Dhahabî, Ibn Taymiyah, al-Shâtibî, and Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalânî. Others declared it as weak, including ibn Hazm and Ibn al-Wazîr.

We also have a hadith which contradicts this one and it is absolutely Sahih;

the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “This community of mine is a community blessed with mercy. It is not punished in the Hereafter. Instead, it is punished in this world with strife, instability, and bloodshed.” [Musnad Ahmad, Sunan Abî Dâwûd, and Mustadrak al-Hâkim]

Imam Ibn Taymiyyah (Rahimullah) states;

The Prophet (Upon Him be Peace) mentions himself described those other 72 sects as Muslims. He said: “My community will divide into 73 sects.” This means that the followers of those sects are neither unbelievers nor polytheists. They are, in general, Muslims and believers. This does not mean that there cannot be a few hypocrites and unbelievers among them. However, the overwhelming majority of them believe, in spite of their deviance and their shortcomings.


And Allah Knows Best.

[Z-Blade]

and what about the hadith wen rasoolullah salallahu alayhi wassalam said in the last days my ummah will become divided into sects and only one of them will be saved and they are ahlul sunnah
and the other hadith wen he salallahu alayhi wassalam said in the last days the people of knowledge will be taken away
and in another he salallahu alayhi wassalam said my ummah will be the minority of people and the majority will be followig their nuffs and huwwa

subhan Allah

:salams,

Here they are, and they further reinforce what I said:

Hadith 1 The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said "The Jews split into 71 groups; one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 groups; 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose Power is the life of Muhammad, without doubt, my Ummah will be divided into 73 groups. Only one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell."

When asked which group will be on the right path, the holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) replied, "The main (al-Jama'ah) body of the Muslims."

Hadith 2. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said " There was disagreement amongst Jews and they split into 72 groups. In exactly the same way, there will be disagreement and divisions in my Ummah. It will split into 73 groups. Apart from one of those groups, all the remaining 72 will be thrown into Hell."

When asked which group will be on the right path, the holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) replied, "The group on the right path, which will enter Paradise, will be the group which follows my Sunna and that of my Sahaba and this will be the largest group of Muslims." [Tirmizi, Imam Ahmad, Abu Daud, Mishkat]

Having quoted no less than seven ahadith, from authentic sources, two things become clear:

1. The Muslims will divide into 73 Groups
2. The largest group will be the right group.

Further evidence that what you have said is wrong from the Quran:

4:59
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَأَطِيعُواْ الرَّسُولَ وَأُوْلِي الأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ ذَلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلاً
(http://en.quran.nu/quran/sound/ayat/004/059.rm)O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad), and those of you (Muslims) who are in [I]authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.

Those in authority here means the scholars and the leaders of the Muslims (if we had Khilafah).

Ukhti, please follow your own advice, and only speak with knowledge, lest you misguide the people and be held accountable for it on The Day of Judgment. I am only trying to give you Naseeha, as I fear for you on The Day of Judgment, just as I do for myself and all my brothers and sisters :(!

To speak with knowledge is to take from the scholars and not to make your own interpretations, as the Prophet :saw: has said "The scholars are the inheritors of the prophets (AS)" (saying it from memory, wording may not be exact).

Wassalam.

[saifah]

i dont reject the 'ulama and i wouldnt say anything unless it was from the quran tafsir ibn kathir or sahih bukhari as i fear making harram what Allahmade hallal and hallal what Allah made harram but i think u have to understand a large group of people could have the right understanding but not implementaion for example
in sydney there are 3 sheikhs that claim to be ahlus sunnah wa jammah in only one suberb here wich is a muslim area but im saying only one suberb 3 sheikhs claim to be uhlus sunnah but they have 3 different massullahs and they all have the same aqeedah it just so happens that they give different dawah one of them is more 'extreme' then the other and another more then both
subhan Allah and i have heard them all quote daueef hadith
muslims have ignorance that is ok aslong as we arre trying to gain knowledge and we bennifit but wen we just remain jahil this is wer our account will be made
akhi if u so desire jennah go ask someone
there is a hadith the rasool said my ummah will become lost so much so they will copy the jews and christians that if they wer to enter the whole of a sand lizzard they (muslims) would follow them
and also the hadith that the ummah will become deviated because they will grab hold of the tails of the cows
(dunya)
with the ahlul huqq
they will hold firm to thequran and sunnah and whatever there is of them then they will be truthfull in their ibadah but akhi u have to understand what u are saying is going against a massive amount of hadith and u cant use quran to back ur arguement up wen the ayah is usedfor something else
if i wasto follow the majority here i would either be a tablighee or a sufi or a habashi aoothubillah
and even the so called ahlul huqq here are a mixture of nearly all of them

[afsalim]

:salams,

As far as I know, no kafir would be allowed to commit shirk in the Islamic State.

Wassalam.

Believing in any other g-d is Shirk. Do you mean that they wont be allowed to practice their faiths?

[Cashew]

Believing in any other g-d is Shirk. Do you mean that they wont be allowed to practice their faiths?

I thought "associating a partner" with God was shirk.

[Z-Blade]

i dont reject the 'ulama and i wouldnt say anything unless it was from the quran tafsir ibn kathir or sahih bukhari as i fear making harram what Allahmade hallal and hallal what Allah made harram but i think u have to understand a large group of people could have the right understanding but not implementaion for example
in sydney there are 3 sheikhs that claim to be ahlus sunnah wa jammah in only one suberb here wich is a muslim area but im saying only one suberb 3 sheikhs claim to be uhlus sunnah but they have 3 different massullahs and they all have the same aqeedah it just so happens that they give different dawah one of them is more 'extreme' then the other and another more then both
subhan Allah and i have heard them all quote daueef hadith
muslims have ignorance that is ok aslong as we arre trying to gain knowledge and we bennifit but wen we just remain jahil this is wer our account will be made
akhi if u so desire jennah go ask someone
there is a hadith the rasool said my ummah will become lost so much so they will copy the jews and christians that if they wer to enter the whole of a sand lizzard they (muslims) would follow them
and also the hadith that the ummah will become deviated because they will grab hold of the tails of the cows
(dunya)
with the ahlul huqq
they will hold firm to thequran and sunnah and whatever there is of them then they will be truthfull in their ibadah but akhi u have to understand what u are saying is going against a massive amount of hadith and u cant use quran to back ur arguement up wen the ayah is usedfor something else
if i wasto follow the majority here i would either be a tablighee or a sufi or a habashi aoothubillah
and even the so called ahlul huqq here are a mixture of nearly all of them

:salams ukhti,

Sahih Bukhari? You have to inteprete hadith properly if the hadith is ambiguous, and this is not possible when you are not a scholar. The hadith cannot be taken by itself, it must be compared to every thing else in the Quran and the Sunnah, and then you come to the conclusion. You are trying to say the ahadith that I mentioned contradict the ahadith you mentioned, yet this cannot be the case with authentic ahadith. That's why there is a science in Islam called "reconciling seemingly contradicting hadith" which scholars do.

If someone has the right understanding, how is it possible that he does the WRONG implementation? Sorry, that does not make sense to me ukhti, you may have to clarify it to me.

People will have their differences, as long as it's not fundamental differences in Islam, it is fine and the differences of opinion are a mercy upon the Ummah, that is why there are 4 valid madhabs and they are all different yet we are united and do not say only 1 madhab is correct and the rest of the Ummah is wrong.

What's wrong with quoting Daeef hadith? Seriously ukhti, what do you mean by this? Just because a hadith is daeef, it does not mean it is definitely wrong, it COULD BE something the Prophet :saw: has said, otherwise it would be under the category of fabricated. Daeef hadith gain strength when a lot of them which say something similar are collected or there are other evidences that show that it could be correct.

I think you may be confusing what I said, I meant we should be following the way of the majority of scholars, not the majority of the people. Since our obedience is only to Allah and the Prophet :saw:, and the scholars are a means to make sure we are obeying them. Also if you could actually post up the ahadith since that Jew/Christian one is new to me but I understand the other one.

Tablighee? You mean Tablighee Jamaat? What's so wrong with what they are doing? And true Sufis (such as Imam Al-Ghazzali, and not fake modern ones), what's wrong with them? And what is a Habashi? You need to stop labelling people ukhti, you are just dividing the Ummah by looking down upon your brothers and sisters, if you believe they are in the wrong path, then you need to give them da'wah. Are you even doing that? At least Tablighee Jamaat do give da'wah, and I know some great TJ brothers though I do not exactly agree with their views, mashaAllah.

Who are these Ahlul Haqq that you keep talking about? Allah has called us Muslim, that is what we are. Remember the hadith of the different sects, stop creating divisions inshaAllah.

and what about the hadith wen rasoolullah salallahu alayhi wassalam said in the last days my ummah will become divided into sects and only one of them will be saved and they are ahlul sunnah
and the other hadith wen he salallahu alayhi wassalam said in the last days the people of knowledge will be taken away
and in another he salallahu alayhi wassalam said my ummah will be the minority of people and the majority will be followig their nuffs and huwwa

subhan Allah

I have already addressed the first hadith.

The second hadith is referring to the end times, we are not there yet as the Mahdi has not come neither has the Dajjal. It's true that ignorance is increasing, we have less scholars than before, and knowledge is taken away by the death of scholars as we know from the Sunnah. So that does not mean the majority of the scholars are wrong, you are just misinterpreting it.

As for the third hadith, I think it is talking about ALL the people, Muslims and kufar alike. So obviously we can see that there are about 1.6 billion Muslims in this world, whereas the majority are kufar (since the world population is about 6 billion). Please post up the hadith so I can confirm this.

May Allah guide us all, Ameen!

Wassalam.

[afsalim]

I thought "associating a partner" with God was shirk.

Worshiping any other g-d except Allah SWT and associating a partner with him are both Shirk.

[Z-Blade]

Believing in any other g-d is Shirk. Do you mean that they wont be allowed to practice their faiths?

:salams,

It's been answered before in previous posts. They will be allowed to practice their faith, as long as it involves no shirk. Jews and Christians believe in the same One True God that we do, but trinity will not be accepted.


mushriks are a whole different kettle of fish and no they cannot practise that amongst the muslims in the muslim lands. Allah ta ala ordered the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam to fight the mushrikeen until they sumbit to al islam, and the christians and jews until they accept to pay the jiziyah and live under islamic rule, its a very small amount, less then the zakat the muslims have to pay every year, and the christians and jews get exempted from being draughted into the muslim armies, and have the full protection of the muslims and their armies in regards to their lives wealth families and property and justice. The prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam told us that the one who settles within the firelight of the mushrikeen then he is disowned by the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam.



Wassalam.