Murtid

[Muslimah_Pearl]

Salam alikum to All

I would like to know that what Islam says when a person divert from islam what should be done? what islam say about it? i mean ruling..

fe aman ALLAH

[al_islam]

Salam alikum to All

I would like to know that what Islam says when a person divert from islam what should be done? what islam say about it? i mean ruling..

fe aman ALLAH

Try to show them the error of their way.

If they dont listen you have at least done your duty.

[Muslimah_Pearl]

But is it true that they should be killed? i want clarification about it//

[al_islam]

But is it true that they should be killed? i want clarification about it//

Well it does depend on the nature of what they have done.

Then you can look to the Shariah for the actual ruling that needs to be taken.

For minor sins I doubt anyone would be killed.

Remember, you do not know if later in that persons life he is destined to return to Islam with a stronger faith.

It could be a test for such an individual and so killing them may be going a bit far.

[WnbNiqaabi]

Salam alikum to All

I would like to know that what Islam says when a person divert from islam what should be done? what islam say about it? i mean ruling..

fe aman ALLAH

Salam, you mean somebody who changes their religion? or just generally strays?

If you mean somebody who just generally strays then I'd suggest you make du'aa for them and advise them as best you can...because as humans we all stray and go off track every once in a while....the important thing is weather we can find our way back again...and to do that we need pious friends by our sides...so try your best Insha'Allah to help them out. Wassalam

[Abu Mus'ab]

Salam alikum to All

I would like to know that what Islam says when a person divert from islam what should be done? what islam say about it? i mean ruling..

fe aman ALLAH
:wswrwb:

these people don't even know what you're talking about :smack:

The proper spelling is "Murtad" a person commits irtidaad and becomes a murtad.

Anyway the ruling is that he's given 3 days to recant his kufr and become a muslim again, if he doesn't accept islam then he is killed.

And there is no difference of opinion about this.

[WnbNiqaabi]

:wswrwb:

these people don't even know what you're talking about :smack:

The proper spelling is "Murtad" a person commits irtidaad and becomes a murtad.

Anyway the ruling is that he's given 3 days to recant his kufr and become a muslim again, if he doesn't accept islam then he is killed.

And there is no difference of opinion about this.


oh sorry...so its when a person leaves Islam, my apologies!

[Muslimah_Pearl]

:wswrwb:

these people don't even know what you're talking about :smack:

The proper spelling is "Murtad" a person commits irtidaad and becomes a murtad.

Anyway the ruling is that he's given 3 days to recant his kufr and become a muslim again, if he doesn't accept islam then he is killed.

And there is no difference of opinion about this.

yes i m sorry for spell mistake

But the person (Murtad) then argue about the issue that there is not freedom in Islam. he argues that why person has to be killed if he leaves islam ..

[Abu Mus'ab]

yes i m sorry for spell mistake

But the person (Murtad) then argue about the issue that there is not freedom in Islam. he argues that why person has to be killed if he leaves islam ..
traitors can't expect to be given freedom, the example people normally gives is the one about a person who betrays his country, that country will definately execute him, the same applies to islam, you betray it and you'll get executed, there's more than enough freedom.

[Mace]

traitors can't expect to be given freedom, the example people normally gives is the one about a person who betrays his country, that country will definately execute him, the same applies to islam, you betray it and you'll get executed, there's more than enough freedom.

So you're saying that execution is only if someone leaves Islam and then actively works to harm Islam or the Muslim community?

Because certainly in the US for example, if I were to just emigrate to some other country and renounce my US citizenship and take on another citizenship, that is not a crime. I can't think of any other country where renouncing citizenship is a crime either.

[Abu Mus'ab]

So you're saying that execution is only if someone leaves Islam and then actively works to harm Islam or the Muslim community?

Because certainly in the US for example, if I were to just emigrate to some other country and renounce my US citizenship and take on another citizenship, that is not a crime. I can't think of any other country where renouncing citizenship is a crime either.
You being a murtad yourself must have had this conversation a million times on this forum already haven't you? so what's the need to ask me too?

[Mace]

You being a murtad yourself must have had this conversation a million times on this forum already haven't you? so what's the need to ask me too?

People have different opinions actually. That's what I've found. I'm just curious what you think since you're one of the people that have compared this to treason.

[ImaanSeeker]

yes i m sorry for spell mistake

But the person (Murtad) then argue about the issue that there is not freedom in Islam. he argues that why person has to be killed if he leaves islam ..

Allah(swt) once again shows his infinite mercy and love for His(swt) creation with this ruling.

A person who doesn't die with Imaan will go to Hell. Hopefully, we as Muslims understand this VERY important point.

A person who leaves Islam is, in other words, dooming himself to Hell.

Allah(swt) shows his mercy by making the punishment for this person death(the height of all punishments). The punishment is severe in hopes that this potential murtad sees the error of his ways within the three days and becomes Muslim again and assuring himself a better Hereafter.

Allah(swt) wants everyone to die with Imaan, and sometimes when a potential murtad faces this punishment, he seeks what Islam really is, and decides to stay Muslim.

[Muslimah_Pearl]

You know why im asking this question coz i came across some one who was muslim (as i think) he says i was born in muslim family (without my desire) and he studied about islam and he says he was forced to study Quran and was beaten so many times. and molested by one mola. and now he hates this religion. He says there is no freedom of opion in it and if some one wants to leave his religion then why he has to be killed..

He is living hin muslim country and still call himself as muslim without his desire...(his wording)...

When he asked that why a Murtad has to get punishment as death.. that time i couldnt get any answer so thats why posted this thread.. (Please brother and sisters dont get me wrong.. in anyway..)

May ALLAH guide us all..

[Cashew]

:wswrwb:

these people don't even know what you're talking about :smack:

The proper spelling is "Murtad" a person commits irtidaad and becomes a murtad.

Anyway the ruling is that he's given 3 days to recant his kufr and become a muslim again, if he doesn't accept islam then he is killed.

And there is no difference of opinion about this.

I always get a laugh out of this kind of "tough guy" talk.

All the swagger. All the huffing and puffing.

These guys can always and very easily come up with one thousand reasons for killing someone.

But they're entirely incapable of producing much in terms of ideas or effort when it comes to the hard work of helping other people live.

[Abu Mus'ab]

I always get a laugh out of this kind of "tough guy" talk.

All the swagger. All the huffing and puffing.

These guys can always and very easily come up with one thousand reasons for killing someone.

But they're entirely incapable of producing much in terms of ideas or effort when it comes to the hard work of helping other people live.
Do you think i care what you think?

[Abu Mus'ab]

People have different opinions actually. That's what I've found. I'm just curious what you think since you're one of the people that have compared this to treason.
I'm not the one who compared it to treason, i said that's what people normally say.

[Muslimah_Pearl]

Allah(swt) once again shows his infinite mercy and love for His(swt) creation with this ruling.

A person who doesn't die with Imaan will go to Hell. Hopefully, we as Muslims understand this VERY important point.

A person who leaves Islam is, in other words, dooming himself to Hell.

Allah(swt) shows his mercy by making the punishment for this person death(the height of all punishments). The punishment is severe in hopes that this potential murtad sees the error of his ways within the three days and becomes Muslim again and assuring himself a better Hereafter.

Allah(swt) wants everyone to die with Imaan, and sometimes when a potential murtad faces this punishment, he seeks what Islam really is, and decides to stay Muslim.



The question which i asked was just now put by one viewer on a TV channel and the alim is saying that the punishment of death was only applicable at the time of Messenger as he was himself there and to deliver the message of islam and but now as we ordinary muslims are responsible to deliver the knowledge of islam but there might be possibility that we could not deliver the message fully. thats why we can say this punishment is applicable now.. :confused:

[_ZEN_]

:wswrwb:

these people don't even know what you're talking about :smack:

The proper spelling is "Murtad" a person commits irtidaad and becomes a murtad.

Anyway the ruling is that he's given 3 days to recant his kufr and become a muslim again, if he doesn't accept islam then he is killed.

And there is no difference of opinion about this.
During those 3 days, are the like-of-you-muslims ready to listen to the arguments by this so-called murtad ? Because many of these murtads did find something better and more superior outside Islam and do have arguments that need to be discussed intellectually.

[GothiKa]

You know why im asking this question coz i came across some one who was muslim (as i think) he says i was born in muslim family (without my desire) and he studied about islam and he says he was forced to study Quran and was beaten so many times. and molested by one mola. and now he hates this religion. He says there is no freedom of opion in it and if some one wants to leave his religion then why he has to be killed..

He is living hin muslim country and still call himself as muslim without his desire...(his wording)...

When he asked that why a Murtad has to get punishment as death.. that time i couldnt get any answer so thats why posted this thread.. (Please brother and sisters dont get me wrong.. in anyway..)

May ALLAH guide us all..

Does the person hate Islam in its entirety or simply a few aspects of the religion?

[Muslimah_Pearl]

Does the person hate Islam in its entirety or simply a few aspects of the religion?

He says..there is no freedom of thoughts, music is haram,laughing is haram and no one cany enjoy life..

[al_islam]

He says..there is no freedom of thoughts, music is haram,laughing is haram and no one cany enjoy life..

I think it may be due to his unpleasant experience with the Mullah.

Music is not allowed, but where did he get the laughing from ??

Ofcourse you can enjoy life, but what does it mean to 'enjoy life' ?

[GothiKa]

He says..there is no freedom of thoughts, music is haram,laughing is haram and no one cany enjoy life..

is he ok with practices like zakaah and honoring parents?

[Tahiyah]

He says..there is no freedom of thoughts, music is haram,laughing is haram and no one cany enjoy life..



Allah gave us free will, thus your thoughts are free

certain music is haraam

laughing is not haraam, in fact sometimes the Prophet (saw) laughed or smiled to the point where his back molars were seen

islamic life is much more pleasant and enjoyable then a life of sins, as sin only leads to corruption and disease

may Allah guide those who are confused and ignorant to the true beauty of Islam

you lose sooo much in life when you don't accept Allahs words as truth

[Abdelrhman]

He says..there is no freedom of thoughts, music is haram,laughing is haram and no one cany enjoy life..

Laughing is certainly not haram.

It is true that Islam encourages a serious lifestyle, but it also encourages relieving oneself from time to time [by playing and laughing.]

As for spending time with your family, interacting with friends and close people from the community, spending time with each other and strengthen the bonds of family, love, and friendship - those are all part of an Islamic lifestyle.

The problem is: Nowadays people don't consider any of that to be fun. Sitting with parents is like sitting in an oven that's turned on. Visiting cousins is like visiting a hungry lion's den. Smiling in your brother or sister's face is like getting all your teeth pulled out. Teaching your kids new things is like being run over by a truck repeatedly.

We no longer consider any of that stuff 'fun' or 'enjoyable.' It's torture for us, because our minds and hearts are corrupted by the environments and filthy world we've grown up in, and how far we've strayed from the religion of Allah subhanah.
What we want to do for 'fun' is go hang out with so-called 'friends' in filthy places all day, or listen to devilish music that makes everyone horny (forgive me for using such language) and dancing around filthy people like uncivilized monkeys.
'Fun' is drinking liquor till your mind is gone and you don't know what you are doing anymore. 'Fun' is smoking something that will distort one's mind for a few hours so one can laugh with his bogus 'friends' like mindless fools.
An 'enjoyable' conversation is full of back-biting, lying, cursing, inventing lies about people's sisters and mothers, hurting people's honor, destroying relationships between people.


Nobody knows what they want to do in life anymore. A generation ago, everyone knew what they wanted from when they were very young. Nowadays, people are 2, 3 years into college/university and they're still switching majors because they have no idea. And they don't even care.

What we need is a User's Manual. We need to know how to live our life. Allah the Wisest of the wise has blessed us with a User's Manual, and on top of that, He sent a Messenger :saw:, in case we can't read the manual, we can simply copy his lifestyle and that is the same thing.

As for the murtad thing, there are actually different rules for murtaddeen. I have heard that there is a different ruling for one who was born a non-Muslim then accepted Islam, and one who was born Muslim.

Also, the 'scholar' who said that the rules have changed now because Prophet Muhammad :saw: has died, is completely joking. The rules haven't changed. If the rules have changed, Allah would have sent another Messenger to teach us the new rules. It is only fair, right? Why would Allah change the rules then not tell us about it? Is He not the Most Just?

As for the whole 'freedom' thing, this is very simple. There is a reason a murtad is killed. Because evil is contagious. One person decides that he doesn't believe in the religion because of whatever devilish reason, and he will influence others. The shaytan will try to bring out the lazy side in them and urge them to follow this guy's bad example. "It's not so bad, other people are doing it. You don't have strong faith anyway, why are you fooling yourself? That guy must be having such an easy life right about now..."

So others will join him in his damned ways. And think of the words "Muslim Community". Why on earth would a Muslim Community allow a traitor in the midst? He joined Islam then decided it wasn't good enough for him. This is a great disrespect to Allah Lord of the Worlds. This guy takes his religion as a game and a joke.
Why does he not seek the Truth and realize that there is no diety worthy of worship except Allah, and so He must have sent a Messenger with the true Message? And after research, he will realize that the only true message with proof and evidence, and doesn't require you to 'suspend logic, and just believe' is Islam.

A word of advice to my Muslim brothers and sisters: Please refrain from giving your advice about the Laws of Allah. If you have no knowledge, then simply keep quiet, and may Allah reward you. If you DO have knowledge on the subject, then simply state the facts and fear Allah in giving your opinion! You are a Muslim! You don't say "Allah has prescribed this penalty for this crime, but in my opinion..."
Because if you think about it, you are saying that the Most High Most Gracious All-Knowing Lord of the Worlds has said something, and now you want to say something else? Does it make sense?

As for those who aren't looking for the Truth, they simply want a life of play and 'fun' and enjoyment, then give these fools the glad tidings of Hellfire. And remind them that this life is only a few years, and for every enjoyment in this dunya, there comes many negative side effects that ruin your temporary pleasure. Remind them that whoever works in this life will be rewarded in the Eternal Life, and whoever wastes his time in this short life is only ruining himself.

May Allah guide those who seek Guidance.

[Muslimah_Pearl]

Laughing is certainly not haram.

It is true that Islam encourages a serious lifestyle, but it also encourages relieving oneself from time to time [by playing and laughing.]

As for spending time with your family, interacting with friends and close people from the community, spending time with each other and strengthen the bonds of family, love, and friendship - those are all part of an Islamic lifestyle.

The problem is: Nowadays people don't consider any of that to be fun. Sitting with parents is like sitting in an oven that's turned on. Visiting cousins is like visiting a hungry lion's den. Smiling in your brother or sister's face is like getting all your teeth pulled out. Teaching your kids new things is like being run over by a truck repeatedly.

We no longer consider any of that stuff 'fun' or 'enjoyable.' It's torture for us, because our minds and hearts are corrupted by the environments and filthy world we've grown up in, and how far we've strayed from the religion of Allah subhanah.
What we want to do for 'fun' is go hang out with so-called 'friends' in filthy places all day, or listen to devilish music that makes everyone horny (forgive me for using such language) and dancing around filthy people like uncivilized monkeys.
'Fun' is drinking liquor till your mind is gone and you don't know what you are doing anymore. 'Fun' is smoking something that will distort one's mind for a few hours so one can laugh with his bogus 'friends' like mindless fools.
An 'enjoyable' conversation is full of back-biting, lying, cursing, inventing lies about people's sisters and mothers, hurting people's honor, destroying relationships between people.


Nobody knows what they want to do in life anymore. A generation ago, everyone knew what they wanted from when they were very young. Nowadays, people are 2, 3 years into college/university and they're still switching majors because they have no idea. And they don't even care.

What we need is a User's Manual. We need to know how to live our life. Allah the Wisest of the wise has blessed us with a User's Manual, and on top of that, He sent a Messenger :saw:, in case we can't read the manual, we can simply copy his lifestyle and that is the same thing.

As for the murtad thing, there are actually different rules for murtaddeen. I have heard that there is a different ruling for one who was born a non-Muslim then accepted Islam, and one who was born Muslim.

Also, the 'scholar' who said that the rules have changed now because Prophet Muhammad :saw: has died, is completely joking. The rules haven't changed. If the rules have changed, Allah would have sent another Messenger to teach us the new rules. It is only fair, right? Why would Allah change the rules then not tell us about it? Is He not the Most Just?

As for the whole 'freedom' thing, this is very simple. There is a reason a murtad is killed. Because evil is contagious. One person decides that he doesn't believe in the religion because of whatever devilish reason, and he will influence others. The shaytan will try to bring out the lazy side in them and urge them to follow this guy's bad example. "It's not so bad, other people are doing it. You don't have strong faith anyway, why are you fooling yourself? That guy must be having such an easy life right about now..."

So others will join him in his damned ways. And think of the words "Muslim Community". Why on earth would a Muslim Community allow a traitor in the midst? He joined Islam then decided it wasn't good enough for him. This is a great disrespect to Allah Lord of the Worlds. This guy takes his religion as a game and a joke.
Why does he not seek the Truth and realize that there is no diety worthy of worship except Allah, and so He must have sent a Messenger with the true Message? And after research, he will realize that the only true message with proof and evidence, and doesn't require you to 'suspend logic, and just believe' is Islam.

A word of advice to my Muslim brothers and sisters: Please refrain from giving your advice about the Laws of Allah. If you have no knowledge, then simply keep quiet, and may Allah reward you. If you DO have knowledge on the subject, then simply state the facts and fear Allah in giving your opinion! You are a Muslim! You don't say "Allah has prescribed this penalty for this crime, but in my opinion..."
Because if you think about it, you are saying that the Most High Most Gracious All-Knowing Lord of the Worlds has said something, and now you want to say something else? Does it make sense?

As for those who aren't looking for the Truth, they simply want a life of play and 'fun' and enjoyment, then give these fools the glad tidings of Hellfire. And remind them that this life is only a few years, and for every enjoyment in this dunya, there comes many negative side effects that ruin your temporary pleasure. Remind them that whoever works in this life will be rewarded in the Eternal Life, and whoever wastes his time in this short life is only ruining himself.

May Allah guide those who seek Guidance.


very well said brother..

[Ottoman]

People have different opinions actually. That's what I've found. I'm just curious what you think since you're one of the people that have compared this to treason.
there is no opinion to the Muslims, once the order is decreed by Allah and his Rasuul. what abu musaab said was the rule of sharia, but not his opinion. it can be proven from Quran and sunnah.
.

[Ottoman]

I always get a laugh out of this kind of "tough guy" talk.

All the swagger. All the huffing and puffing.

These guys can always and very easily come up with one thousand reasons for killing someone.

But they're entirely incapable of producing much in terms of ideas or effort when it comes to the hard work of helping other people live.
sharia are the laws made by Allah. are you not aware that you are criticizing Allah?
.

[Mace]

there is no opinion to the Muslims, once the order is decreed by Allah and his Rasuul. what abu musaab said was the rule of sharia, but not his opinion. it can be proven from Quran and sunnah.
.

Well, other Muslims on this board and that I've met in real life disagree, though, respectfully.

Some say the penalty is only applicable in the context of a caliphate.

Some say the penalty is only applicable in the case of someone working to undermine Islam or the Muslims, not simply in the case where someone stops believing.

Some say it applies no matter what, that once 3 days has passed that is it. I've been warned never to show my <bleep> <bleep> face in a Muslim country or else.

Of course everyone believes his/her particular opinion on this is backed by legitimate, well-reasoned fiqh.

[Ottoman]

Does the person hate Islam in its entirety or simply a few aspects of the religion?
does that make any difference?
.

[Cashew]

sharia are the laws made by Allah. are you not aware that you are criticizing Allah?
.



No matter how high the opinion a Muslim has of himself, a Muslim is not Allah.

To disagree with a Muslim is not to disagree with God.

My point is that certain Muslims seem to enjoy pointing out that the punishment for apostasy is death.

Oh, sure, they mention the three days, but those three days aren't very interesting.

The idea of killing someone, however, is very interesting.

What I'm saying is that it's significant that certain Muslims seem much more interested in killing apostates than they are in doing dawah.

They don't think that saying, "I'm very interested in doing dawah" makes them sound like tough, macho men.

[Sulaiman Harun]

:start:

truth is bitter, if you don't agree with brother Abu Mus'ab or Ottoman then remain silent

[Cashew]

:start:

truth is bitter, if you don't agree with brother Abu Mus'ab or Ottoman then remain silent

I don't equate Abu Mus'ab or Ottoman with Islam.

Their opinions don't carry the weight of Qu'ran, Sunnah, or scholarly fatwah.

They're not prophets.

They're just plain ol' human beings like you or me.

[Abu Mu'adh]

Dr Zakir Naik was asked this question at the peace conference last night, his response was that there is a difference of opinion and that some scholars say the death penalty is only applied if the the murtad starts to propagate and preach the religion he has gone into. Wallahualam.

[GothiKa]

does that make any difference?
.

Yes it does. If he hates Islam in its entirety, then he hates, for instance, charitable acts which the religion has made mandatory for its followers. If he does not hate generosity, then he cannot hate all of Islam. But if he says he supports magnanimity but still hates all of Islam, then he is a hypocrite. If he doesn't hate charitable acts but believes that Islam doesn't require its followers to help the poor, he is ignorant. If he is ignorant, he should be educated. If he still hates Islam, he is a hypocrite.

[Abu Mus'ab]

I don't equate Abu Mus'ab or Ottoman with Islam.

Their opinions don't carry the weight of Qu'ran, Sunnah, or scholarly fatwah.

They're not prophets.

They're just plain ol' human beings like you or me.
A kaafir like you think you know something about islam, what a joke.

[S@Z]

I don't equate Abu Mus'ab or Ottoman with Islam.

Their opinions don't carry the weight of Qu'ran, Sunnah, or scholarly fatwah.

They're not prophets.

They're just plain ol' human beings like you or me.Great. Now you don't listen to them because they're basing their opinions from Qur'an and Sunnah. Muneeb said it right, 'Truth is bitter' but only for those who haven't tasted the Sweetness of Islam yet.

So much for seeking knowledge eh

[Cashew]

Great. Now you don't listen to them because they're basing their opinions from Qur'an and Sunnah. Muneeb said it right, 'Truth is bitter' but only for those who haven't tasted the Sweetness of Islam yet.

So much for seeking knowledge eh

Did you bother to read Abu Mu'adh's post #34?

If scrolling back is too onerous for you, I'll post it here:

"...Dr Zakir Naik was asked this question at the peace conference last night, his response was that there is a difference of opinion and that some scholars say the death penalty is only applied if the the murtad starts to propagate and preach the religion he has gone into. Wallahualam. ..."

Strangely enough, the above would suggest that the issue of apostasy in Islam is rather more subtle and complex than suggested by some participants in this forum.

Also --- and this must be said --- I participate in this forum at a certain cultural disadvantage:

I don't automatically genuflect before male authority.

I get the impression that some of the participants in this forum were raised in cultural settings in which all males are treated as little princes and to disagree with any opinion they might express is to shake the very foundations of the world.

[Sulaiman Harun]

Cashew whatever you said is not true (I'm talking about the few last lines). If you say a Muslim doesn't know about his religion then what can we say

[S@Z]

Did you bother to read Abu Mu'adh's post #34?

If scrolling back is too onerous for you, I'll post it here:

"...Dr Zakir Naik was asked this question at the peace conference last night, his response was that there is a difference of opinion and that some scholars say the death penalty is only applied if the the murtad starts to propagate and preach the religion he has gone into. Wallahualam. ..."

Strangely enough, the above would suggest that the issue of apostasy in Islam is rather more subtle and complex than suggested by some participants in this forum.

Also --- and this must be said --- I participate in this forum at a certain cultural disadvantage:

I don't automatically genuflect before male authority.

I get the impression that some of the participants in this forum were raised in cultural settings in which all males are treated as little princes and to disagree with any opinion they might express is to shake the very foundations of the world.Cashew got bitten [pun intended] :) and thank you, i read what the brother posted and had i not gotten up then, i would have posted a subsequent reply.

The fact of matter is - apostacy is punishable an act in Islam. There is no other way to it. If there's a difference in opinion it's on 'when', and the rest is well-explained by brothers above.

FYI - Dr. Naik is an expert in comparative religion, and he is not an alim on fiqihi issues. So he cannot [and doesn't - as can be seen from the quoted post] formulate his own opinion, only scholars with relevant knowledge can do so.

Right. Defending Islam, for a Muslim, is now merely a matter of culturism.

So the issue's settled [for now] it seems, lets all talk about The Ideal Culture of Utopia now :up:

[S@Z]

Cashew whatever you said is not true (I'm talking about the few last lines). If you say a Muslim doesn't know about his religion then what can we say
:salams bhai, thanks for the rep :D

did you see how he changed the topic? not good :nono:

and hope you and family's doing well by the Grace of Allah, inshaAllah :)