Jews Against Zionism

[Nazias]

Jews Against Zionism

True Torah Jews is a non-profit organization formed by a group of religious Orthodox Jews dedicated to informing the world and the American public and politicians in particular, that the idealogy of Zionism is in total opposition to the teachings of traditional Judaism.

The relatively new concept of Zionism began only about one hundred years ago and since that time Torah-true Jewry has steadfastly opposed the Zionist ideology. This struggle is rooted in two convictions:

- Zionism, by advocating a political and military end to the Jewish exile, denies the very essence of our Diaspora existence. We are in exile by Divine Decree and may emerge from exile solely via Divine Redemption. All human efforts to alter a metaphysical reality are doomed to end in failure and bloodshed.
- History has clearly borne out this teaching.
- Zionism has not only denied our fundamental belief in Heavenly Redemption it has also created a pseudo-Judaism which views the essence of our identity to be a secular nationalism. Accordingly, Zionism and the Israeli state have consistently endeavored, via persuasion and coercion, to replace a Divine and Torah centered understanding of our people hood with an armed materialism.
- True Torah Jews is dedicated to informing the world and in particular the American public and politicians that all Jews do not support the ideology of the Zionist state called "Israel" which is diametrically opposite to the teachings of traditional Judaism.

We are concerned that the widespread misconception that all Jews support the zionist state and its actions endangers Jews worldwide.

We are NOT politically motivated. We are motivated by our concern for the peace and safety of all people throughout the world including those living in the Zionist state. We support and pray for peace for the people of the Zionist state but have no interest in and do not support the Zionist government.

We seek to disassociate Jews and traditional Judaism from the Zionist Ideology by:

- Providing historical and supporting documentation that Zionism is totally contrary to the teachings of traditional Judaism through the words of our Rabbis, Sages, and Holy Scriptures which oppose the creation of a state called Israel.
- Providing historical documentation on the ideaology and creation of Zionism, the supporters of Zionism and the negative impact of their actions on the Jewish people in the past hundred years, including their involvement in the holocaust up to the present day.
- Publicizing the efforts of traditional Jews to demonstrate that all Jews do not support Zionism, which is being ignored by the mainstream media.
- Convince the news media, politicians and the public to cease referring to the state of Israel as the "Jewish State" but to call it what it is: the "Zionist State".
- It is our firm belief that when the state of "Israel" is recognized for what it is, a Zionist state which is not guided by the teachings of the traditional Jewish faith, Jews worldwide will be able to live in peace.

Changing Hearts & Minds (http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/about/heartsminds.cfm)

Many people have asked whether this website is worthwhile...whether we are really making a difference in the general perception of Torah True Jews and our position concerning the Zionist State. We think the sampling of visitor comments below tells the story of how the information on this website is changing opinions, hearts and minds. Read Others' From All Different Races & Religions Comments Here (http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/about/heartsminds.cfm)


www.jewsagainstzionism.com (http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/index.cfm)

[Ahmadinejad]

Very interesting read. Actually lots of people in the US don't know this. Almost purposely it seems. What cracks me up is when the zionists call jews who speak out against Israel's war crimes "anti-semites". Zionists are among the biggest racists of the century.

[imranpatel]

as-salamu-alakum Nazias,

thanks for the link;


.

[Daddy Banga]

Very interesting read. Actually lots of people in the US don't know this. Almost purposely it seems. What cracks me up is when the zionists call jews who speak out against Israel's war crimes "anti-semites". Zionists are among the biggest racists of the century.

most americans also are ignorant to the fact that muslims want isreal to not exist anymore.

[Te'oma]

most americans also are ignorant to the fact that muslims want isreal to not exist anymore.

actually most polls show that the muslim world would be satisfied if Israel pulled back to it's pre 1967 borders in accordance with international law. I suspect that the biggest ignorance on the part of Americans is that they stick their heads in the sand and ignore what Israel is doing to the Palestinian people. The American media is the only media devoid of almost any mention of the activities of the IDF and instead focuses on the occasional act of aggression by some individuals and spins it to try to reflect an image of arab intolerance

[nomoreillusions]

actually most polls show that the muslim world would be satisfied if Israel pulled back to it's pre 1967 borders in accordance with international law.

Which translates into the global version of the playground cry "No fair, Do over!"

If the Muslim world had been satisfied with the 1967 armistice lines, maybe the '67 war wouldn't have happened in the first place.

As far as International law, Israel has more than fulfilled her part of 242.

[Te'oma]

Which translates into the global version of the playground cry "No fair, Do over!"

If the Muslim world had been satisfied with the 1967 armistice lines, maybe the '67 war wouldn't have happened in the first place.

As far as International law, Israel has more than fulfilled her part of 242.

With all due respect, your post smells like a barnyard. A 40 year occupation and subsequently moving their people into occupied territories is a blatant violation of international law.
Suppose for a second that a cop was killed in Seattle. Would that justify the police rolling in, blockading the entire city, cutting power and refusing to allow anyone to leave? How about roving patrols blowing holes in the walls of houses, evicting the owners and commandeering the houses? How about using locals as human shields to protect them from the fire of potential hostiles?

[History]

Hmm....
I disagree that Americans are unaware of the "plight of the Palestinians"--and many of my fellow American Jews take stands stating that it is our responsibility to see that suffering ameliorated and, ultimately, ended (at least that suffering inflicted by Israelis). We wish this not just because we are Americans but especially because we are Jews. As Jewsm we recognize there is no justice but equal justice, that there are no rights without human rights.

Also as Americans and Jews, however, we recognize the "plight of the Israelis," the struggle they have to survive not only in a Middle-East who wishes to see them "wiped off the map" but a world who singles them out for condemnation unjustly (again, there is no justice but the equal application of justice). Thus, there is a blatant hypocrisy in the unilateral condemnation of Israel.

Anyway, this diverges from the original post.
The Nateuri Karta are a well-funded but small Jewish sect who hold views regarding the existence of the current political State of Israel contrary to the remaining 99.7% of World Jewry.
They are as much "True Torah Jews" as the Ahmadiyya are the "True Quranic Muslims."

Respectfully,
History

[Leena_Cnd]

~
but small Jewish sect who hold views regarding the existence of the
current political State of Israel
contrary to the remaining 99.7% of World Jewry.
Even if it was 99.9 % of jews, that does not matter.
It is God that has the final say. :)
As you said 'two jews, three opinions.'

~

[Ahmadinejad]

most americans also are ignorant to the fact that muslims want isreal to not exist anymore.

Incorrect. How do you think the US government justifies supplying Israel with billions of dollars worth of weapons from tax payers money every year?

The neo-cons make sure the media has the "evil" Muslim threat on the front page every day.

[insomniac]

They are as much "True Torah Jews" as the Ahmadiyya are the "True Quranic Muslims."

Respectfully,
History

but they were what most Jews were before the new brand of Judaism came about.....

Ahmadiyya's are a fairly recent phenemonen just like the Zionist Jews.

[Morris]

With all due respect, your post smells like a barnyard. A 40 year occupation and subsequently moving their people into occupied territories is a blatant violation of international law.
Suppose for a second that a cop was killed in Seattle. Would that justify the police rolling in, blockading the entire city, cutting power and refusing to allow anyone to leave? How about roving patrols blowing holes in the walls of houses, evicting the owners and commandeering the houses? How about using locals as human shields to protect them from the fire of potential hostiles?


With respect Teoma this post does not make sense. Seattle is an American city populated with American citizens. Palestinian Arabs in the disputed/occupied terroritories are not Israeli citizens. A better example say would be England and Scotland. If Scots, however Perfidous Albion had been, however they felt evilly wronged, began killing English policemen, young people and and children could that justify the English...

"police rolling in, blockading the entire BORDER, cutting power and refusing to allow anyone to leave? How about roving patrols blowing holes in the walls of houses, evicting the owners and commandeering the houses? How about using locals as human shields to protect them from the fire of potential hostiles?"

You know, as a Christian I would'nt like to say but...

[dodi]

but they were what most Jews were before the new brand of Judaism came about.....

Ahmadiyya's are a fairly recent phenemonen just like the Zionist Jews.

No they weren't, no they aren't. You are very wrong. There is no "new brand of Jews"; there is no "recent phenemonen .. like Zionist Jews". Zionism is one of the basic tenets of Judaism and has been since G-d's Covenant with Abraham, thousands of years now. Zionism is ancient Jewish nationalism and has been in place from Day 1.

The Zionist movement you refer to was simply a reviving of the ancient and constant one with an emphasized political effort (in a wildly political world) to help find a political solution for what was becoming a critical political situation for Jews .. deadly pogroms in Russia and Eastern Europe, then WWI and II. Think about it, had our homeland been returned to us prior to the turn of last century, many lives would have been saved. How can anyone in his right mind boycott or question saving lives?

This Jewish sect you seem to covet is but a tiny minority of Jews with their own interpretations. They in no way reflect the beliefs of the vast majority of Jews or Jewish beliefs. You tout a losing cause with wrongful intent.

[the_middle_road]

So if we disregard this sect then the statement that "All Jews are Zionists" or that "All Jews support Zionism" is true?

[History]

~

Even if it was 99.9 % of jews, that does not matter.
It is God that has the final say. :)
As you said 'two jews, three opinions.'

~
True.
And the Nateuri Karta's belief is contrary to the Word of G-d as known by the 99.9% Jewish majority.

Again, I guess we must similarly assume you concur that the Ahmadiyya (or the Shia or perhaps even the Bahai) may be the "True Quranic Muslims."
It is Allah "that has the final say", correct? :)

Respectfully,
History

[dodi]

So if we disregard this sect then the statement that "All Jews are Zionists" or that "All Jews support Zionism" is true?

Statements using all and never are rarely true. Try something closer to what your user name suggests .. which is the road the majority of Jews travel.

This sect supports "Zionism" with a twist - their way, in a time frame they select which is divorced from reality.

[History]

but they were what most Jews were before the new brand of Judaism came about.....

Ahmadiyya's are a fairly recent phenemonen just like the Zionist Jews.
Actually not.
The knowledge that Zion is the homeland of the Jewish/Hebrew people is 4000 years old. And this is recorded in our Holy Scripture as well as in the records of many nations.
The knowledge that Zion is the homeland where all Jews should dwell is similarly 4000 years old, and became more fervent whenever Jews were in Exile or under foreign occupation, from the 6th century BCE to the modern era. Our daily liturgy for 2000 years is replete with the knowledge of Zion as our homeland, toward which we pray, and toward which we fervently state on many holiday observances that we be present to observe them “L'shanah haba'ah biyerushalayim”, which, translated, means, “Next year in Jerusalem!"
Over the millenia, Jews have returned to the Holy Land from the Diaspora to which Babylon, then Rome unnaturally displaced them. In the 7th century CE when Caliph Umar forcibly expelled Jews from the Arabian peninsula, it was to the Holy Land that most fled. During European expulsions [England (1290), France (1396), 1421 (Austria), 1492 (Spain), 1496 (Portugal), 19th century Tsarist Russia and post-1917 Bolshevik Russia], many fled home to Zion--called by G-d and fleeing their fellow man. Similarly the devastation of the Jews of Europe in the Holocaust and the post-colonist rise of Arab nationalism to the exclusion of their Jewish Arab neighbors resulted in both European and Arab Jews flight to Zion. Over 2000 years the Jewish people among the Gentiles (Christian and Muslim) had been at best "tolerated"/humiliated and at worse been the victims of injustice upon injustice and even systematized and purposeful mass murder in both Arab and Christian lands, the latter once with the goal of extinction of the Jewish people.
Our ancient Teachings continue to emphasize that a Jew cannot be fully a Jew outside of Zion, and thus our hearts and prayers are ever directed toward it.

Thus, to state that the Jewish people did not, prior to the 19th century, think of Zion as our national homeland from which we were unjustly forced out/exiled and where we should dwell, is false.
The basis of the small sect of Nateuri Karta (Satmar) et al Jews erroneous belief that the Jewish State of Israel should not be established except by G-d, presumably with the coming of the Promised Moshiach, is based on their interpretation of a minor passage in Talmud (and not Torah, btw), Meseches Kesuvos, 111a to be precise. The passage suggests that Jews in exile among the nations would not rebel against their conquerors if their conquerors did not oppress/mistreat them.
However, even the Nateuri Karta are religious Zionists and believe, ultimately, the there will be a Jewish State of Israel founded by G-d through His Promised Moshiach (and that all the Gentiles will acknowledge the Truth of Judaism--at least their interpretation of Judaism ;)).
Thus, in brief, all Jews are Zionists.
And have always been.
It is a core belief of the Jewish faith.
The only difference of opinion exists with these few Satmar-based Jews (based on a sect of Hasidism founded in the Transylvania town of Satu Mare--oddly, a town named for the Christian Saint Mary, mother of Jesus :rolleyes:--founded in the 19th century, though they are a branch of the Haredi Hasidics which are late 18th and early 19th century).
Thus, "anti-Zionism" and not Zionism is the modern aberration.

Respectfully,
History

[Daddy Banga]

With all due respect, your post smells like a barnyard. A 40 year occupation and subsequently moving their people into occupied territories is a blatant violation of international law.
Suppose for a second that a cop was killed in Seattle. Would that justify the police rolling in, blockading the entire city, cutting power and refusing to allow anyone to leave? How about roving patrols blowing holes in the walls of houses, evicting the owners and commandeering the houses? How about using locals as human shields to protect them from the fire of potential hostiles?


palestinians are not allowed to leave? no, they have nowhere to go because of the arab world turning a blind eye.

[nomoreillusions]

With all due respect, your post smells like a barnyard. A 40 year occupation and subsequently moving their people into occupied territories is a blatant violation of international law.
Suppose for a second that a cop was killed in Seattle. Would that justify the police rolling in, blockading the entire city, cutting power and refusing to allow anyone to leave? How about roving patrols blowing holes in the walls of houses, evicting the owners and commandeering the houses? How about using locals as human shields to protect them from the fire of potential hostiles?

Yes, but Seattle is not historically known for using suicide bombers to attack Edmonds, they're not calling for the death to all Edmontonians, nor to push Edmonds into the Sound. Seattle's cry is not "From the Mountains to the Ocean", and while it could be argued Seattle elects terrorists to power ( :rolleyes: ) they are not, to the best of my knowledge, opening fire on pro-Republican-candidate rallies, nor smuggling arms en-mass into Seattle via the Seattle-Canadian Ferry, with the help of the Seattle officials, while simulaneously allowing the average Seattle citizen to starve, in order to carry out more attacks against Edmonds, including indescriminately firing rockets into the city.

[Te'oma]

With respect Teoma this post does not make sense. Seattle is an American city populated with American citizens. Palestinian Arabs in the disputed/occupied terroritories are not Israeli citizens. A better example say would be England and Scotland. If Scots, however Perfidous Albion had been, however they felt evilly wronged, began killing English policemen, young people and and children could that justify the English...

"police rolling in, blockading the entire BORDER, cutting power and refusing to allow anyone to leave? How about roving patrols blowing holes in the walls of houses, evicting the owners and commandeering the houses? How about using locals as human shields to protect them from the fire of potential hostiles?"

You know, as a Christian I would'nt like to say but...

As a citizen of a country that signed onto the 4th geneva convention, you should be horrified if such a turn of events came to be. A government that does not honour it's word cannot be trusted. All of those items mentioned are violations of international law. They are war crimes that should not and can not be tolerated under any circumstances by any society that seeks to call itself civil.

In the same token, if the Brits invaded scotland and killed thousands of Scottish civilians, destroyed infrastructure and then seized the best land and put their own people there, would the scots be justified in killing a few hundred Brits?

[Te'oma]

palestinians are not allowed to leave? no, they have nowhere to go because of the arab world turning a blind eye.

Over 600 university students that have been granted positions in universities around the world are currently being refused exit visas. Hell, Palestinian people WITH exit visas are dying at checkpoints because they aren't being allowed to get to decent hospitals

[Rehmat]

palestinians are not allowed to leave? no, they have nowhere to go because of the arab world turning a blind eye.
Now why the Arab world accept the displaced Palestinian natives - Muslims and Christians? Would you let Paul share your house - if he is kicked out of his house by David???

[Morris]

A/ As a citizen of a country that signed onto the 4th geneva convention, you should be horrified if such a turn of events came to be. A government that does not honour it's word cannot be trusted. All of those items mentioned are violations of international law. They are war crimes that should not and can not be tolerated under any circumstances by any society that seeks to call itself civil.

b/In the same token, if the Brits invaded scotland and killed thousands of Scottish civilians, destroyed infrastructure and then seized the best land and put their own people there, would the scots be justified in killing a few hundred Brits?

Sure. I agree.

b/We have.:o Would they be justified? Maybe, maybe not. War is red isn't it? In the case of Israel Palestine I know for sure both sides have been guilty of wrongdoing, Jews/Israeli's are' not comparable to Nazis, and the Arab Muslims should have and still should be treated with a whole lot more respect. Is one side's killing more justified than another? Surely that depends on who one likes best.

One thing is for sure vis a vis our Scottish scenario. As an Englishperson, I would not care what the rest of the world said or beg for props, moral or financial from them. I wish the rest of the world would just grow a spine.

Make bed, lie in it.