Get engaged, don't fall in love with a stranger

[Debater]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

I thought of this topic a few days ago, when I wanted to give this advice to my brothers and sisters in this forum. I see lots of people fall in love in their teen age and later, because they are not yet married and loving someone is in their nature, but sadly, these love stories end tragically and the girl or the boy has to marry someone else and sometimes the marriage is not successful because either of them can't get out of her/his unsucessful love. I in fact personally know a few such cases, and that is why I thought a few days ago that it should be better that parents should get their kids engaged to their future spouses, in the early teen age. In this way they wouldn't be wandering about in search of love, they would be focussed to their fiances. I have seen a few cases like that.
I think a girl/boy should get engaged at her/his age 15 or so, so she/he wouldn't worry about others and wouldn't mess up as happens so often. Then at the age of 20 or so, they can get married 'peacefully'.

[Sulaiman Harun]

:start:

:salams

wah wah kya khoob farmaya hai SubhanAllah! (very beautifully said SubhanAllah)

[Debater]

:start:

:salams

wah wah kya khoob farmaya hai SubhanAllah! (very beautifully said SubhanAllah)
wa alaikum assalam wr wb

kis nay farmaya aur kya farmaya? kis key baat ker rahay ho meray bhai?

Do you want me to ask your parents to find you a fiance? ganday bachay, sharam karo.
Baray bhai kay hotay huay, apni shaadi kee fikr ker rahay ho? Hum kya shaadi proof hain?

[Sulaiman Harun]

aapne farmaya (you said)

when did I say that?

mey bara bhai? itne chota bara bhai! mujhe kya pata kay aapki shaadi ho gai ha kay nahin. Chalein aap bhi kya yaad rakhain gain kya aapkay liye rishtaa dhundoo? <me, big brother? such a small big brother! how would i know that you are married or not? Ok, shall I look for someone for your marriage?)

[afsalim]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

I thought of this topic a few days ago, when I wanted to give this advice to my brothers and sisters in this forum. I see lots of people fall in love in their teen age and later, because they are not yet married and loving someone is in their nature, but sadly, these love stories end tragically and the girl or the boy has to marry someone else and sometimes the marriage is not successful because either of them can't get out of her/his unsucessful love. I in fact personally know a few such cases, and that is why I thought a few days ago that it should be better that parents should get their kids engaged to their future spouses, in the early teen age. In this way they wouldn't be wandering about in search of love, they would be focussed to their fiances. I have seen a few cases like that.
I think a girl/boy should get engaged at her/his age 15 or so, so she/he wouldn't worry about others and wouldn't mess up as happens so often. Then at the age of 20 or so, they can get married 'peacefully'.

Even doing so would be illegal in a majority of 'Muslim majority' countries. The legal age of consent is 18 in my country (Bangladesh) and age of marriage is 21. There is no way one can stop people falling in love. It is one of the very humane traits. You can mold and control your senses of anger, happiness, sorrow, fear, shame and lust...but you can not control love. Anyone who has fallen in love in their lifetimes will agree with me.

PS: Is this an Urdu thread?

[Pro_Candy]

Even doing so would be illegal in a majority of 'Muslim majority' countries. The legal age of consent is 18 in my country (Bangladesh) and age of marriage is 21. There is no way one can stop people falling in love. It is one of the very humane traits. You can mold and control your senses of anger, happiness, sorrow, fear, shame and lust...but you can not control love. Anyone who has fallen in love in their lifetimes will agree with me.

Agree. Good post. We're only human, after all.

PS: Is this an Urdu thread?

Yeah, that kept me from posting what I really wanted to say earlier...

[MG]

wa alaikum assalam wr wb

kis nay farmaya aur kya farmaya? kis key baat ker rahay ho meray bhai?

Do you want me to ask your parents to find you a fiance? ganday bachay, sharam karo.
Baray bhai kay hotay huay, apni shaadi kee fikr ker rahay ho? Hum kya shaadi proof hain?



:rotfl:

[imran1976]

wa alaikum assalam wr wb

kis nay farmaya aur kya farmaya? kis key baat ker rahay ho meray bhai?

Do you want me to ask your parents to find you a fiance? ganday bachay, sharam karo.
Baray bhai kay hotay huay, apni shaadi kee fikr ker rahay ho? Hum kya shaadi proof hain?

agar barey koa shadi ki jaldi nahi hai toa is meyn choatey ka kya kasur hai :torture:

[insomniac]

I don't think engagements are any such solution to be honest - and especially for long periods of time - to avoid fitnah best would be
to get nikah done or to avoid having such long engagements (just an opinion, so don't bite my head off :o)

So many engagements break off leading to heartbreak from one party or the other - short and unannounced engagements may work

Allaahu alim

p.s. hey, lay off the Urdu or this thread gona be exclusive for some :torture:

[Kal-El]

If you get engaged with someone you meet at the age of 15, what makes you think as you mature and grow up your tastes will change and that you won't want to be engaged to that person anymore?

Long-term engagements are similar to those falling in love but are not married. Hardly any difference; they both have to wait until they can get married.

[insomniac]

If you get engaged with someone you meet at the age of 15, what makes you think as you mature and grow up your tastes will change and that you won't want to be engaged to that person anymore?

Long-term engagements are similar to those falling in love but are not married. Hardly any difference; they both have to wait until they can get married.



:jkk: Kal-El :up:

[GuCcI]

If you get engaged with someone you meet at the age of 15, what makes you think as you mature and grow up your tastes will change and that you won't want to be engaged to that person anymore?

Long-term engagements are similar to those falling in love but are not married. Hardly any difference; they both have to wait until they can get married.


exactly :o

[Debater]

If you get engaged with someone you meet at the age of 15, what makes you think as you mature and grow up your tastes will change and that you won't want to be engaged to that person anymore?

Long-term engagements are similar to those falling in love but are not married. Hardly any difference; they both have to wait until they can get married.

I disagree yara; I think long term engagements are quite different from unofficial-love, the former being much likely to be successful while the latter is not. If I was engaged to a girl in my early teen age, I wouldn't be falling in love again and again in my life :D
because I would be thinking of her (my fiance) everytime the bug in my head told me I am a man and I want a :fairy:

[Lord Summerisle]

Sorry to have to remind you, Debater, but people don't actually choose to fall in love, as a rule.

How do you suggest people control this most mysterious and fascinating phenomenon of falling in love? I can't wait to hear.

[Debater]

Even doing so would be illegal in a majority of 'Muslim majority' countries. The legal age of consent is 18 in my country (Bangladesh) and age of marriage is 21. There is no way one can stop people falling in love. It is one of the very humane traits. You can mold and control your senses of anger, happiness, sorrow, fear, shame and lust...but you can not control love. Anyone who has fallen in love in their lifetimes will agree with me.
Age of consent for what? I'm not talking about age of consent for sex, because that is not allowed in our religion beyond the bond of marriage. And I don't understand why the age of consent and that of marriage are different in your country or wherever, if one can marry at age 21 then what for giving consent at age 18?

A girl can be engaged to a boy at her age 15, her consent should be taken by her parents because I do think at age 15 she is quite mature. This will let her stay away from crushes, falling in love with boys that is certainly going to break her heart, because it happens all the time with girls and boys in early teenage, you and me both know that so well.

It is possible that she's not going to marry her fiance by the time she is 21 because she finds someone else more suitable for marriage, then it might break someone's heart but at least there would be less damage in the heart.

[Debater]

Sorry to have to remind you, Debater, but people don't actually choose to fall in love, as a rule.

How do you suggest people control this most mysterious and fascinating phenomenon of falling in love? I can't wait to hear.
In fact people do choose to fall in love; for example you see a girl and find her attractive, you keep thinking of her, and that's what makes you fall in love with her. It's all about 'rememberance' and 'memory'. I can guarantee if you find a girl very attractive and that increases your heart rate, you can get away from this condition so easily. Just run away from her, whenever you see you are 'getting used of someone' or 'admiring someone' for her beauty or personality, you can easily divert your attention to something else, stop seeing her, avoid her, well I do that all the time :inlove:
because I don't wanna break my heart.

I'm not against loving someone; love is part of life, but we should know who is the right person to love.

[THE PATH 2]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

I thought of this topic a few days ago, when I wanted to give this advice to my brothers and sisters in this forum. I see lots of people fall in love in their teen age and later, because they are not yet married and loving someone is in their nature, but sadly, these love stories end tragically and the girl or the boy has to marry someone else and sometimes the marriage is not successful because either of them can't get out of her/his unsucessful love. I in fact personally know a few such cases, and that is why I thought a few days ago that it should be better that parents should get their kids engaged to their future spouses, in the early teen age. In this way they wouldn't be wandering about in search of love, they would be focussed to their fiances. I have seen a few cases like that.
I think a girl/boy should get engaged at her/his age 15 or so, so she/he wouldn't worry about others and wouldn't mess up as happens so often. Then at the age of 20 or so, they can get married 'peacefully'.


THERE is no "engagement" in islam

IT is not the solution

[Debater]

THERE is no "engagement" in islam

IT is not the solution
Engagement doesn't mean the girl and the boy would be allowed to meet or chat, it's only an understanding between them that they would be each other's future spouses. They can do nikah too at the age of 15, if parents allow that. But like they can later on find out the decision to do nikah at early age was not right, so engagement would be a better choice.

[insomniac]

Engagement doesn't mean the girl and the boy would be allowed to meet or chat, it's only an understanding between them that they would be each other's future spouses. They can do nikah too at the age of 15, if parents allow that. But like they can later on find out the decision to do nikah at early age was not right, so engagement would be a better choice.

so why not arrange their marriages at birth then....?

[GAL-actic]

so why not arrange their marriages at birth then....?

lol it's a good one

[Debater]

so why not arrange their marriages at birth then....?
A girl/boy of 15 knows well who s/he likes than the baby at birth, no?

In fact, love affairs and marriage is not everything in life; life is much more complicated than just running after someone of the opposite gender. We shouldn't waste our lives in search of a mirage. You probably would agree with me that there are untold love stories everywhere, some are really painful, it's better to write a story that has a happy ending.

[ImaanSeeker]

when two families decide to get their children married, they should do so as soon as possible.

delaying the marriage after agreement opens the door to a variety of different problems.

[insomniac]

A girl/boy of 15 knows well who s/he likes than the baby at birth, no?

In fact, love affairs and marriage is not everything in life; life is much more complicated than just running after someone of the opposite gender. We shouldn't waste our lives in search of a mirage. You probably would agree with me that there untold love stories everywhere, some are really painful, it's better to right a story that has a happy ending.

but like at 15 with little contact or none whatsoever and to be engaged for a number of years is cause for a breakup (don't kill me, just an opinion based on experience)

[Debater]

but like at 15 with little contact or none whatsoever and to be engaged for a number of years is cause for a breakup (don't kill me, just an opinion based on experience)
Well, I think there should be a little interaction between them, but in the presence of family members, they can exchange txt msgs too, lol, I know it's wrong but like we do lots of wrong things, and I agree with bro Iman Seeker that marriage shouldn't be delayed after engagement.

[Sabr&Shukr]

Salaams

To re-iterate what a couple of other posters have said - there is no engagement in Islam

Not in the non-muslim sense - with 'fiances' and rings and relationship prior to marriage - but also NOT in the sense of a man and woman knowing they will be each other's spouse.

This is not from Islam. ANY type of engagement open the way up for haraam behaviour. People thinking - "its ok we get to know one another, spend time together, we are doing it for the purpose of marriage" and then feel tempted to meet without mahrem because its ok , they are "engaged" etc etc....

If 2 people make the decision to marry - however old they are - they should marry ASAP - Khalas. What is the point of engagement once the two have made decision to marry? Why hold off making it halal?? Engagement is a tricky business - it doesnt always lead to marriage and it also leads the couple open to potential sin before the Nikah is done - which is not a good way to start a marriage.

Yes ,we dont always do things right, we do do wrong things all of us - but thats no reason to promote these things as part of Islam as a means to avoid sin!! Thats contradictory!

A couple are either married or they are not. In which case them being together without mahrem, etc is either haram or halal. Its very clear cut to be honest. Even if someone has the intention of marriage - they should then be clear and true to that intention and marry - and not do the opposite ( delay)

Wasalaams

[Sabr&Shukr]

[QUOTE=Debater;2218340 they can exchange txt msgs too, lol, I know it's wrong but like we do lots of wrong things,[/QUOTE]

Salaams

Please read that sentence back to yourself.

You say they can have interaction with family members ( in presence of mahrem) but then yet you say this, above.

Text message is a private converation - and can involve inappropriate content. As you said yourself - its wrong. Therefore that is the end of the matter - no ifs or buts.

Wasalaams

[Kal-El]

It's pointless in debating the validity of the emotion of love. What we're really against is acting upon that love and becoming your very own Muslim Romeo and Juliet. If people fall in love then they should be taught in how to manage their behaviour with emphasis. Having said that, its incredibly difficult to love and not express that somehow to that person.

If I had a teenage daughter/son in that situation the only humane solution would be to get them married. That'll test their love and resolve ultimately and if it ends in divorce it'll be a lesson to both of them in the future; and if its a success then thats wonderful.

[Abu Mu'adh]

Salaam, I think you will find that the sharee'ah doesn't completely disregard 'engagements' as long as it done within the limits set by sharee'ah, i.e. the guy and girl not placing the the ring on each others hands themselves as they are still non mahrem.

also the qur'an says 'And there is no sin on you if you make a hint of bethrothal...2:235.

In essence the engagemnet is just a promise of marriage sometime in the future.

Salaams

To re-iterate what a couple of other posters have said - there is no engagement in Islam

Not in the non-muslim sense - with 'fiances' and rings and relationship prior to marriage - but also NOT in the sense of a man and woman knowing they will be each other's spouse.

This is not from Islam. ANY type of engagement open the way up for haraam behaviour. People thinking - "its ok we get to know one another, spend time together, we are doing it for the purpose of marriage" and then feel tempted to meet without mahrem because its ok , they are "engaged" etc etc....

If 2 people make the decision to marry - however old they are - they should marry ASAP - Khalas. What is the point of engagement once the two have made decision to marry? Why hold off making it halal?? Engagement is a tricky business - it doesnt always lead to marriage and it also leads the couple open to potential sin before the Nikah is done - which is not a good way to start a marriage.

Yes ,we dont always do things right, we do do wrong things all of us - but thats no reason to promote these things as part of Islam as a means to avoid sin!! Thats contradictory!

A couple are either married or they are not. In which case them being together without mahrem, etc is either haram or halal. Its very clear cut to be honest. Even if someone has the intention of marriage - they should then be clear and true to that intention and marry - and not do the opposite ( delay)

Wasalaams

[Cristiana]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

I thought of this topic a few days ago, when I wanted to give this advice to my brothers and sisters in this forum. I see lots of people fall in love in their teen age and later, because they are not yet married and loving someone is in their nature, but sadly, these love stories end tragically and the girl or the boy has to marry someone else and sometimes the marriage is not successful because either of them can't get out of her/his unsucessful love. I in fact personally know a few such cases, and that is why I thought a few days ago that it should be better that parents should get their kids engaged to their future spouses, in the early teen age. In this way they wouldn't be wandering about in search of love, they would be focussed to their fiances. I have seen a few cases like that.
I think a girl/boy should get engaged at her/his age 15 or so, so she/he wouldn't worry about others and wouldn't mess up as happens so often. Then at the age of 20 or so, they can get married 'peacefully'.

Who said who they "have to" marry???

Besides, you cannot control people's feeling.
They are engaged from birth and so what? you mean they won't have eyes to see other people and know them and like them?

The only realistic thing to do insha'Allah is to teach your children that they must not even go near sex before marriage and why it is so.

And hope they come talk to yuo when they fall in love so insha'Allah you can help them make sense of their feeling and work out if the person is right for them:D

[zammy]

engagements are a tricky position to be in. The longer it stretches out the worst it seems to get. If they are young and in their teens and not able to marry for a couple more years, it's not always easy to 'meet up' with the girls mahram around. I don't know ..that doesn't seem very likely to happen. Why get mahrams involved when a nikkah isn't happening anytime soon at all? At the end the girl and guy will come to the conclusion 'we shouldn't communicate anymore, there's no point since we aren't getting married anytime soon. Let's just plan to get married but not keep contact much.'..then after not speaking for a while they realize they can't hold on to the feelings they had for eachother before because you can't have feelings for someone you hardly communicate with..it's just not possible for most people!

Only short term engagements work I believe.. for example if the nikkah is already in sight and its not some far away occasion in your life. From my experience, engagements are a total headache, probably more than marriage is :rolleyes:

[A_Muminah]

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum,

Those of you who argue that 15 year olds are children, they are not.

Even in the US, a person over the age of 12 is not considered a child any longer and are allowed to stay home alone for long periods of time and go out alone if they please. They can make their own decisions and even charge their parent if they are disciplined. The age 18 comes in because they can start smoking and enroll into the Army (making one an adult) and the age 21 just means that they are not allowed to become alcoholics.

Please quit using western perspective of the age-system to pursue the religion. We have our own limits in age and in fulfilling our deen, we should use those that the Prophet Mohammad :saw: recommended.

My mother was 13 when she wed my father, who was 15. They are now 51 and 49, Masha-Allaah. Did they have to know each other for 5 years prior to getting married in order to get married?

Was-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatulaahi Wa Barakaatuh

[Kal-El]

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum,

Those of you who argue that 15 year olds are children, they are not.

Even in the US, a person over the age of 12 is not considered a child any longer and are allowed to stay home alone for long periods of time and go out alone if they please. They can make their own decisions and even charge their parent if they are disciplined. The age 18 comes in because they can start smoking and enroll into the Army (making one an adult) and the age 21 just means that they are not allowed to become alcoholics.

Please quit using western perspective of the age-system to pursue the religion. We have our own limits in age and in fulfilling our deen, we should use those that the Prophet Mohammad :saw: recommended.

My mother was 13 when she wed my father, who was 15. They are now 51 and 49, Masha-Allaah. Did they have to know each other for 5 years prior to getting married in order to get married?

Was-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatulaahi Wa Barakaatuh

Point is, the vast vast majority of parents aren't going to give away their children for marriage and regardless of your example - a 13 year old is a child. I've personally matured so much over the past year, more than I've matured during the past 10 years.

If you'd give away your children, or "adults" as you'd see them, that's your prerogative but its fine for others to call them children because that is what they are. It's not a western concept, and even if it was it's not one you can dismiss so easily. If you have an opinion present it as one instead of presenting it as fact because you're trying to blow everyone away with "they're not children". Don't embarrass yourself sis

[A_Muminah]

As-Salamu 'Alaykum,
Point is, the vast vast majority of parents aren't going to give away their children for marriage and regardless of your example - a 13 year old is a child. I've personally matured so much over the past year, more than I've matured during the past 10 years.

If you'd give away your children, or "adults" as you'd see them, that's your prerogative but its fine for others to call them children because that is what they are. It's not a western concept, and even if it was it's not one you can dismiss so easily. If you have an opinion present it as one instead of presenting it as fact because you're trying to blow everyone away with "they're not children". Don't embarrass yourself sis


Just because 'vast vast majority' of parents do not do something does not make it correct. Using the Western thought of 13 year-olds being children itself is contradictary because they do not even consider a 13-year old as a child.

Just because you're matured so much this year, does not mean no one else can earlier. I am not saying every 13 year old SHOULD be married but the fact that is it accepted. Many girls raised overseas are mature enough to be wed at 13 while others in the Western countries and even here, there are exceptions.

Many people of the West look upon the girls that wed early. I have a friend who was born and raised in America, and got married at 14. She usually doesnt not tell people that even though she is only 21, that she has been married for 7 years because everyone will think that she is backwards. Why is that? Why is being looked down upon for protecting her private parts and wanting to fulfill have her emaan? That is what really makes me frustrated.

Was-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh

[Kal-El]

I consider a 15 year old an adult at the earliest but 13? That's ridiculous and I'm sure most people would agree.

[A_Muminah]

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum,.
I consider a 15 year old an adult at the earliest but 13? That's ridiculous and I'm sure most people would agree.


I guess you dont know many 13 year old girls.

I went to an all-girl private school, believe me when I say that some Muslim girls are usually ready to wed at 13. This does not apply to all girls, of course, but it should never be a restriction either.

Was-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh.

[Kal-El]

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum,.


I guess you dont know many 13 year old girls.

I went to an all-girl private school, believe me when I say that some Muslim girls are usually ready to wed at 13. This does not apply to all girls, of course, but it should never be a restriction either.

Was-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh.

Physically, perhaps, mentally? Not a chance. Teens getting married is fine but they usually divorce in some cases. People should never ever rush into marriage. Those who do will have learnt the lesson of their lives believe me when I say that

[elji]

Physically, perhaps, mentally? Not a chance. Teens getting married is fine but they usually divorce in some cases. People should never ever rush into marriage. Those who do will have learnt the lesson of their lives believe me when I say that

i agree.

[evaldo]

when two families decide to get their children married, they should do so as soon as possible.

delaying the marriage after agreement opens the door to a variety of different problems.Good point.

Yes, delaying marriage could open the door to various problems, e.g. the persons who should actually get married could disagree with getting married.

[sis_niqabi]

salam

all that delaying marriage has done is increase the haraam among the Muslim youth.

having long engagements is not from the deen. in most cases i've seen where the people were engaged for over 2 years the couples have fallen into the haraam.

i think it is dangerous waters for Muslims to have long engagements.

[insomniac]

Salaams

Please read that sentence back to yourself.

You say they can have interaction with family members ( in presence of mahrem) but then yet you say this, above.

Text message is a private converation - and can involve inappropriate content. As you said yourself - its wrong. Therefore that is the end of the matter - no ifs or buts.

Wasalaams

:salams

:up: :jkk:

:wswrwb:

[afsalim]

Age of consent for what? I'm not talking about age of consent for sex, because that is not allowed in our religion beyond the bond of marriage. And I don't understand why the age of consent and that of marriage are different in your country or wherever, if one can marry at age 21 then what for giving consent at age 18?

A girl can be engaged to a boy at her age 15, her consent should be taken by her parents because I do think at age 15 she is quite mature. This will let her stay away from crushes, falling in love with boys that is certainly going to break her heart, because it happens all the time with girls and boys in early teenage, you and me both know that so well.

It is possible that she's not going to marry her fiance by the time she is 21 because she finds someone else more suitable for marriage, then it might break someone's heart but at least there would be less damage in the heart.

Does everything in your universe revolve around 'sex'? The age of consent is the minimum age at which a person is considered to be capable of legally giving informed consent to any contract or behaviour regulated by law with another person. It is a globally agreed concept that a person attains psychological maturity through experiences he or she gathers through time and it determines how one responds to the circumstances or environment in an appropriate manner. This level of psychological maturity is not instinctual, but learned though experiences, education and exposure to various elements of a society. There is no way a child of 14 or 15 years can attain a psyche of that level of maturity. Imposing a marriage at such a delicate age of human development would destroy not only one’s career, but ruin lives as well.

In fact people do choose to fall in love; for example you see a girl and find her attractive, you keep thinking of her, and that's what makes you fall in love with her. It's all about 'rememberance' and 'memory'. I can guarantee if you find a girl very attractive and that increases your heart rate, you can get away from this condition so easily. Just run away from her, whenever you see you are 'getting used of someone' or 'admiring someone' for her beauty or personality, you can easily divert your attention to something else, stop seeing her, avoid her, well I do that all the time :inlove:
because I don't wanna break my heart.

I'm not against loving someone; love is part of life, but we should know who is the right person to love.

Like I said before, you can not choose whom to fall in love with. What you are confusing it with is sexual attraction. Love is a very different aspect.

so why not arrange their marriages at birth then....?

As usual your logic is impeccable! :D

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum,

Those of you who argue that 15 year olds are children, they are not.

Even in the US, a person over the age of 12 is not considered a child any longer and are allowed to stay home alone for long periods of time and go out alone if they please. They can make their own decisions and even charge their parent if they are disciplined. The age 18 comes in because they can start smoking and enroll into the Army (making one an adult) and the age 21 just means that they are not allowed to become alcoholics.

Please quit using western perspective of the age-system to pursue the religion. We have our own limits in age and in fulfilling our deen, we should use those that the Prophet Mohammad :saw: recommended.

My mother was 13 when she wed my father, who was 15. They are now 51 and 49, Masha-Allaah. Did they have to know each other for 5 years prior to getting married in order to get married?

Was-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatulaahi Wa Barakaatuh

The sense of sanity is not actually a Western concept. My parents got married in their late twenties, after finishing their university education and getting their career on track. They both are in their early 60s and they still are madly in love with each other mashAllah. Because of their careful planning myself and my two siblings have a wonderful life. We are what we are because of them. Getting married at a young age is not embracing Islam, it is embracing tribalism

salam

all that delaying marriage has done is increase the haraam among the Muslim youth.

having long engagements is not from the deen. in most cases i've seen where the people were engaged for over 2 years the couples have fallen into the haraam.

i think it is dangerous waters for Muslims to have long engagements.

Agreed sis. Prolonged engagements are quite harmful, since there are no commitments, people's mind can change. Here in Bangladesh, during the majority of the engagements, the walima or the wedding rites are performed. The wedding reception takes place later on.

[Samurai]

There is no way a child of 14 or 15 years can attain a psyche of that level of maturity.

your opinion :zzz:

the best solution is early marriage, mature enough not mature enough, who cares, it's better then being broken for only God knows how long

[GuCcI]

your opinion :zzz:

the best solution is early marriage, mature enough not mature enough, who cares, it's better then being broken for only God knows how long


ya but the topic is loooooooong engagements.

theyre horrible. wat a waste of time

[Samurai]

Long engagements you know you will get married at the end or atleast it's 99% likely going to happen

there is no comparison to not knowing if things will work out or not

[Samurai]

Getting married at a young age is not embracing Islam, it is embracing tribalism

It's an advice of the best intelligence of the universe out of all the creations, Mohammad (pbuh), to get married early


Prolonged engagements are quite harmful,

It can be, I dunno, you might be right but your premise:

since there are no commitments
is wrong, their is commitment, hence the engagement, the engagement is the commitment, they knowing each other and agreed upon their plans to get married is a commitment, a huge one

people's mind can change.

It can change in marriage aswell, but just like when you marry, it's a choice that can later on be regretted and then divorce is always a possibility (although unlikely), it's the same with engagement, their is a possibility, but it's unlikely, so this doesn't prove your point

The wedding reception takes place later on.

It's like that in many cultures including arabs

Although I tend to think long engagements are harmful but for other reasons then you mentioned but ofcourse I ain't sure if it's hamful or not, but for sure shorter engagements, earlier marriage, always beter

[GuCcI]

Long engagements you know you will get married at the end or atleast it's 99% likely going to happen

there is no comparison to not knowing if things will work out or not


wowwww 99%? ur THAT sure? u just made up a random stat? :rolleyes: if not, care to cite it?

even if its more likely than not that the marriage will happen, its the exact same as any other marriage because u just never know if things will work out or not.

[Samurai]

if you want stats, how bout in US 50.6% divorce rating, I don't have the stats of engagement there but I bet the stats show more people stay true to engagements then to marriages.


there isn't universal stats on anything, it varies in different places and in different cultures and religions, but I'm willing to bet the chance of getting divorced is higher then not fullfilling the engagement (ie. deciding not to get married at the end)

[GuCcI]

if you want stats, how bout in US 44% divorce rating, I don't have the stats of engagement there but I bet the stats show more people stay true to engagements then to marriages.


there isn't universal stats on anything, but I'm willing to bet the chance of getting divorced is higher then not fullfilling the engagement (ie. deciding not to get married at the end)


well ya everyone knows that in the states divorce rate is almost 1 in 2, in canada its 1 in 3, but that doesnt say anything about long engagements.

i'd think longer engagements dont last as much cuz theres a longer time period where things can go wrong, cause harm, minds change, people change, meet knew people, like other people, want something different, like something different, etc. whereas in shorter engagements there isnt enough time for all this drama. its done, people get on with it.

[Samurai]

Shorter engagements are better I agree with that

I disagree with long engagements are better then no engagement

So a long engagement at young age is better the waiting for short engagement later on, so if you can make engagement shorter, all the better, but no way is it better to not have engagement and having good possibility of falling in love with an impossible to get married to stranger

There is always possibility of meeting new people in marriage aswell, changing, etc, all those things you mention are just as possible in marriage, but since their is commitment, the commitment is to stay true to the partner, an engagement is a commitment aswell, and the same expectations are there

[GuCcI]

Shorter engagements are better I agree with that

I disagree with long engagements are better then no engagement

So a long engagement at young age is better the waiting for short engagement later on

There is always possibility of meeting new people in marriage aswell, changing, etc, all those things you mention are just as possible in marriage, but since their is commitment, the commitment is to stay true to the partner, an engagement is a commitment aswell, and the same expectations are there

noooo! thats wat i disagree with, but i just forgot in my other post......

long engagements at a young age allows for TOO MUCH fitnah and haraam! because there IS the committment that ur talking about its like telling yourself, who cares, we'll get married sooner or later.. we're 99% sure according to samurai's statistics that we WILL end up getting married, so why not just go ahead and have "fun"<<< broad meaning.

its easy to draw the line for how 2 ppl of opposite genders can communicate and interact with each other, but in a long engagement the line starts to fade and get blurry and move around and isnt where its suppossed to be anymore.

[ImaanSeeker]

if you want stats, how bout in US 50.6% divorce rating, I don't have the stats of engagement there but I bet the stats show more people stay true to engagements then to marriages.


Are you kidding me?

I don't know what Shias beleive in, but in Islam our Beloved Prophet :saw: advised us to get married asap and not to delay the marriage once we find an acceptable partner.

Long engagements cause unnecessary fitna. There is no doubt in that.

[Samurai]

Are you kidding me?

It's like that in the US.

I don't know what Shias beleive in,

The issue shias differ with sunnis is regarding leadership after the Messenger (pbuh). Basically shias believe 12 Imams (as) starting from Ali (as) ending with Imam Mahdi (as) succeeded the Mastership of Mohammad (pbuh) so all the verses about his mastership are succeeded by these 12 people, Spiritual and Political roles, they are basically believed to be the 12 Successors from Quraysh mentioned in Sahih Muslim, and other sources.

Unlike Sunnis, shias don't believe to submit to oppressing rulers but believe in the struggle of overthrowing them, Quran says "those who defend themselves after they are oppressed" (suratal Shura and suratal Shooara) and says Messengers (as) were sent so mankind may rise with equity and Zaidis are in the same view here with 12vers

Also we believe there is always a Guide in each age to prepare people for Yamal qayma and guide them in their spiritual journey but this belief is shared by all sunni sufis, and many sunni sufis see the 12 Caliphs hadith about the Spritual Caliphate and that is about the 12 Imams (as) that shias believe in

As for getting married early, I don't know if you purposely skipped my post and purposely ignored it, but I did mention Prophet (pbuh) advisign to getting married early

So politically Zaidis and 12vers differ with Sunnis

Spiritual leadership, shias and sunni sufis differ with the rest about it, we call the Guide of age, Imam, sufis called him "The Qutb" (pole, pole is to signify the attraction role he plays with friends of God and thereby to all the world since the light and Guidance of God in him passes through those close to him, to those close to those close, to those close to those close to those close (and so on, if you want to be close to the Imam (as), it just takes commitment to Taqwa (staying away from what keeps one from God and his sweet rememrbace) and Yaqeen/Ehsan (worshipping God as if seeing him)), those people basically are those that are promised direct Guidance, and they are the directly Guided by the Guide while others do benefit by the Guide but indirectly by the effect I already mentioned

so let's propuse Nasrallah (ha) being of the Mutaqeen directly Guided, the Lebense people benefit by the Guide (as) through Nasrallah (ha), so it's indirect, this indirect benefit I mention ofcourse is only during occulation, if the Guide is in public view and public accepts the Guide (as), then it's direct benefit as was during time of Mohammad (pbuh).


Long engagements cause unnecessary fitna. There is no doubt in that.

For fitna, marriage is the best solution, so shorter engagement then marriage is best, but longer engagement relative to shorter engagement is unneccessary fitna, and I already showed my agreement to shorter engagement being better, however relative to no engagement, it's solution a to fitna and reduces it greatly

[jus'me]

k..mayb this has already been mentioned but does the idea of 'engagement' even exist in Islam?...

Its either nikah or not..isnt it?

[insomniac]

For fitna, marriage is the best solution, so shorter engagement then marriage is best, but longer engagement relative to shorter engagement is unneccessary fitna, and I already showed my agreement to shorter engagement being better, however relative to no engagement, it's solution a to fitna and reduces it greatly


Engagements are not necessarily a solution to fitnah
and subhanAllaah if a long engagement does break off the effects can be quite disastrous....

varies in different scenarios...

[Samurai]

k..mayb this has already been mentioned but does the idea of 'engagement' even exist in Islam?...

Its either nikah or not..isnt it?

I thought it didn't but I've read hadiths about if a person asks for a persons hand no one else should ask the same person unless he is rejected, and stuff, and Islamically engagement is first then marriag,e because their is a period between the acceptance of the person asking the father and the father asking his daughter and his daughter accepting (or traditionally her remaining silent was seen as yes), and the marriage

so in a way the answer is yes it does exist

[GuCcI]

Engagements are not necessarily a solution to fitnah
and subhanAllaah if a long engagement does break off the effects can be quite disastrous....

varies in different scenarios...


yeh ur right, that makes you think that ppl who are, lets say, stuck, in long engagements wont end up breaking it off because of these "disastrous effects"

depending on the scenario of course....

[$HugoBoss$]

Yeah i agree, the sooner you get married the better. Less temptation you gotta deal with, there's no secret to it.

[nomoreillusions]

If I were to undertake finding a potential spouse on my child's behalf I would have to wait until both my child and the potential spouse were of an age adequate to determine their personality, character and fitness for each other.

While I believe that any two people can eventually learn to at least live somewhat peaceably with one another if they both work at it, it's better to match two people who are more likely to form a positive bond and this is something that can not always be guaged within the context of the impetuousness of youth and raging hormones of puberty.

It is better, imo, to wait until they are a bit more settled in their personality and you've had time to observe both your own child and observe any potential spouse yourself to determine if the person is well suited and fit to be your child's spouse.

[Samurai]

yeh ur right, that makes you think that ppl who are, lets say, stuck, in long engagements wont end up breaking it off because of these "disastrous effects"

depending on the scenario of course....

no one should marry someone they don't want to, it's not fair to their partner and themselves too, the "disastrous effects" is nothing compared to the disastrous effect that will come later due to one person not wanting to get married

in the following two scenarios, what is better:

you love someone, your engaged too, as long as you both like each other you will marry and you both do really like each other

you love some, your not engaged too but talk with the person, sort have a relationship, you both really like each other and you really don't know if you can marry the person or not


your discussing engagement as if the two are not sure about each other or one isn't, I'm discussing in the sense that two want to be together and have a firm commitment to each other, in one scenario you know it's possible (and will most likely happen) and the 2nd scenario, you don't know if it's possible, so you both can end up wanting to be together yet never marry

I think the fitna in the latter is a lot worse

[GuCcI]

no one should marry someone they don't want to, it's not fair to their partner and themselves too, the "disastrous effects" is nothing compared to the disastrous effect that will come later due to one person not wanting to get married

in the following two scenarios, what is better:

you love someone, your engaged too, as long as you both like each other you will marry and you both do really like each other

you love some, your not engaged too but talk with the person, sort have a relationship, you both really like each other and you really don't know if you can marry the person or not


your discussing engagement as if the two are not sure about each other or one isn't, I'm discussing in the sense that two want to be together and have a firm commitment to each other, in one scenario you know it's possible (and will most likely happen) and the 2nd scenario, you don't know if it's possible, so you both can end up wanting to be together yet never marry

I think the fitna in the latter is a lot worse



in your first scenario u didnt even say HOW long they were engaged for becuz its the looong engagements that go on for wat seems like forever that is worse no matter......

but anyway in both of your scenarios there is potential for fitnah, but i would say theres chance for fitnah in ur first scenario more than the second.

[Debater]

So how many blokes got engaged during my vacation? :inlove:

[insomniac]

So how many blokes got engaged during my vacation? :inlove:

none. hope your nice well earned vacation was enjoyed :up:

[Debater]

hope your nice well earned vacation was enjoyed :up:
not really, i missed a chance to 'get engaged' on islamica, mods like zaalim samaaj (heartless world) here

[insomniac]

not really, i missed a chance to 'get engaged' on islamica, mods like zaalim samaaj (heartless world) here

no wonder you got banned here :rolleyes:

[niqaabi_muslima]

There are some cases where the parents perform a nikkah for their child at a young age...and then later on in thier life they find out they are married....