Has Hijab become pointless???

[-Shamil-]

Alright i was speaking to a sister (cousin) who said she felt the hijab has become pointless for her - she wasnt criticising the concept of hijab obviously - but just the fact that wearing it never stopped her getting stares from pervs or stopped guys approaching her, they "just looked past it" - she has now decided to wear the niqab to ward of any wierdos and feels much more comfortable

do you agree with her? is it something you would consider doing? does it bother you that its come to this? who's to blame?

[zammy]

It's not totally pointless... sure you get stares and random pervs but for the most part you get much more respect than if you weren't and non-weirdos get the general message. Besides, weirdos will bother you with or without hijab..hence why they're called weirdos!

If we didn't have our hijabs it would be a whole different story. Niqabs attract just as much stares..then theres the next level of weirdos who find the concept of niqab enthralling too.. you just can't win :rolleyes:

[MG]

i disagree, i think it depends how much your bothered by it, before i wore hijab, guys used to have the gall to come up to me and say silly things, or ride their cars alongside me,trying to talk to me while im walking etc etc

since i have worn hijab, subhanallah i saw the difference within the 1st day, yes guys look (i have even become oblivious to that) but what is important to me is that they dont approach me, that just used to scare me and since i have worn hijab they dont!

Although it does get on my nerves, i can handle them looking, cos half the time i dont notice and if i do i can ignore it and get on with things. So i wouldnt change a thing inshallah, hijab has made my life alot more easier alhumdulillah:)

[-Shamil-]

yeah i guess it depends at how unsettled you get by looks by pervs - sister really was unsettled and angry about it and didnt want it any more and chose the niqab and feels safer

the diff with niqab for her is, that pervs cant "look past it" - nothing to see and no guy approaches her

as for wierdos finding niqab enthralling, i dont think theres people like that

[Khadija222333]

I love my niqab and wouldn't give anything for it. :inlove:

[MG]

yeah i guess it depends at how unsettled you get by looks by pervs - sister really was unsettled and angry about it and didnt want it any more and chose the niqab and feels safer

the diff with niqab for her is, that pervs cant "look past it" - nothing to see and no guy approaches her

as for wierdos finding niqab enthralling, i dont think theres people like that

sis people who find niqaabs enthralling do exist and alot of niqaabi sisters can vouch for that, i personally think niqaab and hijab have the same general affect on men i.e. dont approach me but what it wont stop is people looking at you, u could walk covered totaly in a burkha and still u would get looked at.

[Khadija222333]

sis people who find niqaabs enthralling do exist and alot of niqaabi sisters can vouch for that, i personally think niqaab and hijab have the same general affect on men i.e. dont approach me but what it wont stop is people looking at you, u could walk covered totaly in a burkha and still u would get looked at.

Of course but they don't know how I look like and everything but in hijab they can still see my face. btw I don't have anything against hijab. :inlove:

[zammy]

sis people who find niqaabs enthralling do exist and alot of niqaabi sisters can vouch for that, i personally think niqaab and hijab have the same general affect on men i.e. dont approach me but what it wont stop is people looking at you, u could walk covered totaly in a burkha and still u would get looked at.

I agree :up:


Yes, Niqabs are so cool :inlove:

I wore it for a day while grocery shopping once..it was actually quite fun. I had old men having heart attacks in the fresh fruit isle :o

[-Shamil-]

sis people who find niqaabs enthralling do exist and alot of niqaabi sisters can vouch for that, i personally think niqaab and hijab have the same general affect on men i.e. dont approach me but what it wont stop is people looking at you, u could walk covered totaly in a burkha and still u would get looked at.

im not a sis - shamil is a male name lol

why would a perv find a women totally covered enthralling - surely he'd prefer someone he can see a little bit at least - but if there are people like that then its more messed up than i thought, i doubt it tho

the diff for my cousin is that with hijab, they could still see what she looked like and hence perv

and i think the difference she is talking about also between hijab and niqaab is that niqaab DOES say dont approach but hijab - thanks to some of the antics of girls who wear hijab - does not say dont approach to some guys

[A_Muminah]

As-salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaah,

I dont think I have a tough time simply because guys on my campus and in my community know that if they even attempt to lift their eyes from the floor to take a look, I'd pull their eyeballs out.

:D

Was-salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh

[-Shamil-]

As-salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaah,

I dont think I have a tough time simply because guys on my campus and in my community know that if they even attempt to lift their eyes from the floor to take a look, I'd pull their eyeballs out.

:D

Was-salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh

lol my cousin is pretty timid - if she was as menacing as you, maybe she wouldnt have a problem :D

[MG]

Of course but they don't know how I look like and everything but in hijab they can still see my face. btw I don't have anything against hijab. :inlove:

yeh i know u dont and vis a vis sis :)

as i said, i think it comes down to personal prefrence, i wanted not to be bothered when im out and about and alhumdulillah i found a cure for it but i think it will be a very hard task, if someone makes it their goal to "stop people looking at them" becos it wont happen, people will look covered whether your covered or not, hijab or niqaab or not, unless u stay at home 24/7 of course!

[bint]

guys like that DO exist. sorry to burst ure cousin sis#s bubble but such men that stare at niqaabi women still exist..

men say they find it mysterious and exciting. even more that they wonder whats underneath that black bag!

so its a no win situation. cover ureself up the best option

[MG]

As-salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaah,

I dont think I have a tough time simply because guys on my campus and in my community know that if they even attempt to lift their eyes from the floor to take a look, I'd pull their eyeballs out.

:D

Was-salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh

asalaam alaikum

lol my face gives that impression if i catch them looking but inside me bones are shaking *quiver*

[-Shamil-]

guys like that DO exist. sorry to burst ure cousin sis#s bubble but such men that stare at niqaabi women still exist..

men say they find it mysterious and exciting. even more that they wonder whats underneath that black bag!

so its a no win situation. cover ureself up the best option

well i dont know what type of men youve heard of but ive never seen anything like that

but if they do exist, so let them wonder - they cant see her and hence cant perv on her - she feels alot safer

[bint]

well i dont know what type of men youve heard of but ive never seen anything like that

but if they do exist, so let them wonder - they cant see her and hence cant perv on her - she feels alot safer
out of curiosity. dyu live in england???

shes still not safe.

[MG]

well i dont know what type of men youve heard of but ive never seen anything like that

but if they do exist, so let them wonder - they cant see her and hence cant perv on her - she feels alot safer

sis i think the point sis bint is trying to make (Correct me if im wrong bint) is that a man does not need to see your face to be able to perv on you, i think it would be naive of you to think that just becos you have a niqaab on you are "safe" from pervs.

Wen i walk down the street with a niqaabi/niqaabis, they get more stares than me (me hijab), thats for sure.

[bint]

sis i think the point sis bint is trying to make (Correct me if im wrong bint) is that a man does not need to see your face to be able to perv on you, i think it would be naive of you to think that just becos you have a niqaab on you are "safe" from pervs.

Wen i walk down the street with a niqaabi/niqaabis, they get more stares than me (me hijab), thats for sure.
exactly.

sisters in full niqab. still get harrassed.

[A_Muminah]

As-salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaah,

Plus I come from an Afghan family that the whole community knows with three brothers and very strict father who'd strangle any guy to walk in my path.

Ahhh, alHumdu-Lillah.

But seriously, I am told a lot of times that my way of dressing (black 'abayahs and usually dark colored hijaabs) intimidate a lot of men simply because I seem like the type of girl that will not give any guy the light of day. There is no reason for any guy to have my attention unless they are hoping for something more (like speaking to my father first). I believe if you are all daisy and peachy, then sure the brothers may feel comfortable enough to 'eye' you but if you are very sharp and straight-forward with brothers, they know better than to mess with a girl who will tear them apart in regards to deen.

That does not mean that you should be walking around the community with a mean and p*ssed off look but by being modest, like lowering the gaze, properly covering yourself, not speaking in a high-toned voice, or not playing around with your girlfriends in public, then they should know better than to harass a sister. This usually drives away a HUGE percentage of men and there will always be a small percentage that tend to see Muslimahs as exotic and will always inquire. Many non-Muslim men nowadays even see Hijaabis and niqaabis as being their 'dream-girls'. Yet, still...the hijaab in general is there for a purpose alHumdu-Lillaah, and it beautifully fulfills its job.

Was-salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaah

[-Shamil-]

out of curiosity. dyu live in england???

shes still not safe.
yes

she certainly is safe from the prying eyes at least - they cant see her, she feels alot more comfortable so im assuming she doesnt get stares or pervs approaching her




sis i think the point sis bint is trying to make (Correct me if im wrong bint) is that a man does not need to see your face to be able to perv on you, i think it would be naive of you to think that just becos you have a niqaab on you are "safe" from pervs.

Wen i walk down the street with a niqaabi/niqaabis, they get more stares than me (me hijab), thats for sure.


for the second time, im not a sis :ragepc:

shamil is a male name lol

but dont you think the stares a niqab would get is one of curiosity due to all the recent media attention and the fact thats its not as common as hijab and its something the average brit cant get used to
whereas with hijab she had people blatantly comeing up to her for her number and stuff

[Abandoned-Mind]

Its a obligation...

Its like saying fasting, salah, beard etc are pointless.

Smack your cousin.

[Lone Wolf]

as for wierdos finding niqab enthralling, i dont think theres people like that

You'd be surprised sis.

In fact sis you may be shocked as I've heard from Niqabi sisters that they often get approached by bearded bros looking for second, third or fourth wives!!

[A_Muminah]

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaah,
Its a obligation...

Its like saying fasting, salah, beard etc are pointless.

Smack your cousin.

I do not think you fully understood the thread.

Those were Shamil's words but his cousin feels that she will be more comfortable in wearing the niqaab which is beautiful, Masha-Allaah.



In fact sis you may be shocked as I've heard from Niqabi sisters that they often get approached by bearded bros looking for second, third or fourth wives!!

:torture:

Btw - Shamil is a bro, Mr. Slow-One.

Was-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh

[-Shamil-]

Its a obligation...

Its like saying fasting, salah, beard etc are pointless.

Smack your cousin.

read the first post again :rolleyes:

she agrees with the concept of hijab which is why she wears niqab - but for herself thinks wearing headscarf isnt working in protecting her - but niqab does

[bint]

yes

she certainly is safe from the prying eyes at least - they cant see her, she feels alot more comfortable so im assuming she doesnt get stares or pervs approaching her

but dont you think the stares a niqab would get is one of curiosity due to all the recent media attention and the fact thats its not as common as hijab and its something the average brit cant get used to
whereas with hijab she had people blatantly comeing up to her for her number and stuff
i dont see why u cant understand my post. i have said niqaabis get harrased alot. pervy remarks and sexual harrassment. to be blunt.

i think maybe a percentage has to do with media attention..but even before the recent events..MUSLIM men came on documentries, airing their thoughts about niqaabis publclly..saying that find it a 'turn on'. :torture:

[Nine Elms]

airing their thoughts about niqaabis publclly..saying that find it a 'turn on'. :torture:

:rofl1::rofl1::rofl1::rofl1:

:scratch::rubeyes::vomit:

indeed if thats the case we have some sick minded brothers who completley reverse the point of the niqab in the first place :smack: they put our gender to shame.

However do not get too paranoid as some men who you percieve to be staring because of pervertedness are infact staring because they may find it strange/dont see it often because a niqaabi does bring its own curiousity however most decent brothers upon seeing a niqaabi would respect her wishes not to be looked at and therefore lower the gaze.

[A_Muminah]

As-salaamu 'Alaykum,

I do not think being a niqaabi is a 'turn on' but it is seen as a beautiful thing by many Muslim brothers. Just like how a beard is seen as wonderful by many sisters but it is not a turn-on.

Yet, the West views niqaabis as being mysterious harem because of their ignorance and lack of knowledge of the East. That usually does not apply to Muslim men unless they have twisted minds and are just generally perverted.

Was-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh

[-Shamil-]

i dont see why u cant understand my post. i have said niqaabis get harrased alot. pervy remarks and sexual harrassment. to be blunt.

i think maybe a percentage has to do with media attention..but even before the recent events..MUSLIM men came on documentries, airing their thoughts about niqaabis publclly..saying that find it a 'turn on'. :torture:

whats there not to understand? i just dont think it happens all that often - many women in my family wear niqab, nothing of the sort has happened with them

im wont deny it doesnt happen at all

and what documentaries are these? im surprised they'd admit such a messed up thing in front of camera

[-Shamil-]

As-salaamu 'Alaykum,

I do not think being a niqaabi is a 'turn on' but it is seen as a beautiful thing by many Muslim brothers. Just like how a beard is seen as wonderful by many sisters but it is not a turn-on.

Yet, the West views niqaabis as being mysterious harem because of their ignorance and lack of knowledge of the East. That usually does not apply to Muslim men unless they have twisted minds and are just generally perverted.

Was-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh

agreed :up::up:

[bint]

As-salaamu 'Alaykum,

I do not think being a niqaabi is a 'turn on' but it is seen as a beautiful thing by many Muslim brothers. Just like how a beard is seen as wonderful by many sisters but it is not a turn-on.

Yet, the West views niqaabis as being mysterious harem because of their ignorance and lack of knowledge of the East. That usually does not apply to Muslim men unless they have twisted minds and are just generally perverted.

Was-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh
i give up

[hkrespect]

asalamu alaikum wr

people have become desensitised to seeing the flesh, over exposure to it.

so when a hijabi/niqaabi comes by, this is the forbidden fruit that they now desire, hence the stares.

does that make sense???

ws

[A_Muminah]

As-salaamu 'Alaykum,

Ohh, the irony of being a Hijaabi/Niqaabi in the West. :(

May Allaah guide us steadfast upon the Haqq, Aameen.

Was-salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh

[altaira]

well i have worn hijab for 14 years alhumdullilah:up:, and i went through a phase of wearing niqab and i loved it:up:, you do get stares from guys wen wearing the hijab i hate it:(, the thing is with hijab at the moment it has become an identity issue and not an all encompassing modesty issue, there are certain people who wear the hijab on their head but the rest of the body is not covered appropiately:rubeyes:, and they will get stares for obvious reasons:rubeyes:, its an identity issue i have the scarf on my head therefore i am muslim but there is more to hijab then just covering the head,:up: i would wear the niqaab :otomorrow if i could but my hubby hates it:(, doesnt think its right to wear it in a non muslim country :(plus you do get extra hassle my friend who wears it got hassled:( in town yesterday but i thought it was kinda funny she got called a letterbox i have never heard that one before!:lailah:

[uhkt_al'muminun]

Has Hijab become pointless? i would disagree, so long as a sister fears Alah subhana'Wat3la and does her part by fulfiling the obligation then what more could she possibly do. As for Niqab i would def advise sisters to wear it, not to say that she wont get stares but the likely chances are that the stares she gets from men are not possitive but negative (i.e they are not trying it on with her) and by far i'd prefer a look of hostility rather then a look of lust from a guy as im sure many sisters would agree.

It is not the HIjab that has become pointless but rather it is the men who have become desperate...Allahum'sta3n!


asalamu alaikum wr

people have become desensitised to seeing the flesh, over exposure to it.

so when a hijabi/niqaabi comes by, this is the forbidden fruit that they now desire, hence the stares.

does that make sense???

ws

Na'3m i totally agree.

[elji]

It works for some and not for others. But for the ones who choose not to wear it they should not be criticised for not being "proper" muslims

[uhkt_al'muminun]

It works for some and not for others. But for the ones who choose not to wear it they should not be criticised for not being "proper" muslims

Hijab works for all muslimahs.

[elji]

Hijab works for all muslimahs.

Thats an assumption you are making.

[brjimc]

Alright i was speaking to a sister (cousin) who said she felt the hijab has become pointless for her - she wasnt criticising the concept of hijab obviously - but just the fact that wearing it never stopped her getting stares from pervs or stopped guys approaching her, they "just looked past it" - she has now decided to wear the niqab to ward of any wierdos and feels much more comfortable

do you agree with her? is it something you would consider doing? does it bother you that its come to this? who's to blame?


Its not pointless, but I have seen brothers leering at sisters in the masjid to the point that the back of their heads are facing the Imam as he is giving a khutbah.

Sometimes you just wanna smack em.

[`asiya]

Its a obligation...

Its like saying fasting, salah, beard etc are pointless.

Smack your cousin.

advocating beating women again i see...


i would like to wear niqqab but when i wore it before, it was ridiculous litreally the whole street of people stooped dead to stare at me, it was freaky, on top of that the muslims here would freak out if i wore niqqab. most of the self appointed islamic "leaders" wives dont wear even hijab so i would get the usual phone calls from the muslims telling me i am jepordising their cosy little lifes and their fat mortgages by wearing it, they would prefer i slung my hijab and jilbab away too and just wore jeans and the like ...cant be upsetting the kuffar now can we :rolleyes: so yea whats the answer ? i dont know. i would love to wear niqqab but its already too dangerous going out in hijab alone.

but if i want to get married then im gonna have to take off my hijab the asian men here only marry white girls without hijab :rolleyes:

[uhkt_al'muminun]

Thats an assumption you are making.

nop its a fact.

[brjimc]

nop its a fact.

Please explain.

[uhkt_al'muminun]

Please explain.

'And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things) and protact their privet parts (from illegal sexaul acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.) and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks, and bosoms, etc) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers, or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam) or the (female) slaves whom their right hands posses, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allah to forgive you all, O believers that you may be successful’ (24:31)

Allah Azwajal ends this ayah by saying 'O believers so you may be successful'.
so its quite clear that any muslimah who does fulfil this ibadah the hijab it has actually 'worked' for her. As i mentioned before its not that it works for some and not others but rather that some men have just become desperate.

O prophet! Tell your wives, and your daughters, and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”’(33:59)

Again this ayah makes no exceptions to any Muslimah.

[elji]

Firstly let me start of with this verse

"You shall strive for the cause of GOD as you should strive for His cause. He has chosen you and has placed no hardship on you in practicing your religion - the religion of your father Abraham..." 22:78

Secondly let me add to this

[7:26] "O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best garment is the garment of righteousness. These are some of GOD's signs, that they may take heed."

The above is the BASIC rule of DRESS CODE in the Quran.

"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments ... that they should draw their KHIMAR over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands.." 24:31

In the above God is asking the women to use their cover (khimar) to cover their bosoms, not their heads or their hairs. If God so willed to order the women to cover their heads or their hair, nothing would have prevented Him from doing so. GOD does not run out of words. GOD does not forget.

No one is saying you go and wear tight jeans and tight tops. Thats not what Allah asks you to do. you can wear nice modest clothing which is available all around. As you quoted in the verse hijab is meant to be for her protection and honour and if it does not serve that purpose then i dont see the point. So it does work for some and not for others

Conclusion:

(1) The BEST garment is the garment of righteousness.
(2) Whenever you dress , cover your chest (bosoms).
(3) Lengthen your garment.

[brjimc]

Conclusion:

(1) The BEST garment is the garment of righteousness.
(2) Whenever you dress , cover your chest (bosoms).
(3) Lengthen your garment.

Interesting. Thanks for the evidences on this debate!

[uhkt_al'muminun]

Firstly let me start of with this verse

"You shall strive for the cause of GOD as you should strive for His cause. He has chosen you and has placed no hardship on you in practicing your religion - the religion of your father Abraham..." 22:78

Secondly let me add to this

[7:26] "O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best garment is the garment of righteousness. These are some of GOD's signs, that they may take heed."

The above is the BASIC rule of DRESS CODE in the Quran.

"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments ... that they should draw their KHIMAR over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands.." 24:31

In the above God is asking the women to use their cover (khimar) to cover their bosoms, not their heads or their hairs. If God so willed to order the women to cover their heads or their hair, nothing would have prevented Him from doing so. GOD does not run out of words. GOD does not forget.

No one is saying you go and wear tight jeans and tight tops. Thats not what Allah asks you to do. you can wear nice modest clothing which is available all around. As you quoted in the verse hijab is meant to be for her protection and honour and if it does not serve that purpose then i dont see the point. So it does work for some and not for others

Conclusion:

(1) The BEST garment is the garment of righteousness.
(2) Whenever you dress , cover your chest (bosoms).
(3) Lengthen your garment.

ok you've lost me, were we not talking about the hijab as an outer garment/ clothing and not the hijab of righteousness?

also when i am refering to Hijab i do not mean a 5cm cloth wrapped round the head, as you are right this has not served its purpose, this is not hijab according to the Shariah, rather it is just a head covering. I am refering to the hijab which is mentioned in the quran and Sunnah. Therefore by wearing the correct hijab as mentioned in the quran and sunnah then insh'Allah it has served its purpose.

[Aamaal]

O prophet! Tell your wives, and your daughters, and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”’(33:59)

Again this ayah makes no exceptions to any Muslimah.

Salam

Hijab is a fardh alongside the abayah/jilbab as i understand it ( i know people like brother/sister elji will disagree) . But the part i highlighted in red is the problem. Its an assumption thats not in the actual wording of the Qur'an.

One of the problems with this assumption is that if Allah swt ordained women to 'screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way', then surely there should have been an unequivocal statement in the qur'an or hadith COMMANDING such a thing- without the addition of what people (no matter how pious) believe it to be? Especially if not following this requirement would send a women to hell. For people to say it is mandatory is one thing and for a woman to wear it as an extra (mustahab/nafl) is another thing.

I have no problem with niqab, I mean i actually wore it for a while when i believed it to be waajib but since that time my feelings about it have changed. I no longer see it as a requirement but that doesnt mean i wont wear it again. I have studied this aspect and come to such a conclusion- yours may differ.

I would like to emphasise that i have nothing against sisters that wear the niqab, indeed i think its beautiful. I just happen to follow the other opinion.
Wasalam.

[brjimc]

ok you've lost me, were we not talking about the hijab as an outer garment/ clothing and not the hijab of righteousness?

also when i am refering to Hijab i do not mean a 5cm cloth wrapped round the head, as you are right this has not served its purpose, this is not hijab according to the Shariah, rather it is just a head covering. I am refering to the hijab which is mentioned in the quran and Sunnah. Therefore by wearing the correct hijab as mentioned in the quran and sunnah then insh'Allah it has served its purpose.

Isnt the verse in Surah 33 about (hijab and khimar) the verse he was answering with his post?

Other than the Quranic verse that he addresses, can you please post some other evidences?

Thanks ws

[uhkt_al'muminun]

Salam

Hijab is a fardh alongside the abayah/jilbab as i understand it ( i know people like brother/sister elji will disagree) . But the part i highlighted in red is the problem. Its an assumption thats not in the actual wording of the Qur'an.

One of the problems with this assumption is that if Allah swt ordained women to 'screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way', then surely there should have been an unequivocal statement in the qur'an or hadith COMMANDING such a thing- without the addition of what people (no matter how pious) believe it to be? Especially if not following this requirement would send a women to hell. For people to say it is mandatory is one thing and for a woman to wear it as an extra (mustahab/nafl) is another thing.

I have no problem with niqab, I mean i actually wore it for a while when i believed it to be waajib but since that time my feelings about it have changed. I no longer see it as a requirement but that doesnt mean i wont wear it again. I have studied this aspect and come to such a conclusion- yours may differ.

I would like to emphasise that i have nothing against sisters that wear the niqab, indeed i think its beautiful. I just happen to follow the other opinion.
Wasalam.

Walaykuk'asalam, ukhti the red bit is what i have found in the translation of the quran as well as the Tafseer.I dont believe Its an assumption, reason being is beacuse if we look at our classical as well as contemporary scholars many of them beleive it to be wajib upon a muslimah.

Hadith - Bukhari 6:282
Aisha(R.A.) used to say: "When (the Verse): 'They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,' was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces."

If one believes it to be Wajib AlhamduliAllah Khair.
If one believes it to be Sunnah AlahmduliAllah kahir.

The main thing is that we accept it to be a part of our deen and and an act that the female companions carried out, so regardless of which opinoin you follow we should all aspire to be like them as we know they are the inhabitabts of Jannah (by the Mercy of Allah) therfore one should follow them to the best of their ability.

Walaykum'Asalam

[uhkt_al'muminun]

Isnt the verse in Surah 33 about (hijab and khimar) the verse he was answering with his post?

Other than the Quranic verse that he addresses, can you please post some other evidences?

Thanks ws

Subahn'Allah was not the verses i gave suficient enough for you???

[Lone Wolf]

(1) The BEST garment is the garment of righteousness.
(2) Whenever you dress , cover your chest (bosoms).
(3) Lengthen your garment.

Loosely interpreted, that could be stretched to include crop tops

[elji]

Loosely interpreted, that could be stretched to include crop tops

LOL you kidding right? lengthen your garment would have excluded that option.

[Black_Flag]

Salams, What seems to be discussed here is the phsical hijab here. Meaning the scarf on the head and clothing etc etc. The state of hijab does not just include this.

Many sisters wear hijab and get stared at by men, even approached by men. Niqaabis get approached too and because of this your saying that hijab doesnt work?

From my point of view, if a woman is in physical hijab i.e hashijab on her head BUT looks around to see what dudes are checking her out, struts out in skin tight jeans, talks or acts in a flirty manner, bats her eyelashes etc etc then sure shes gonna get approached and perved on by men. I know this isnt always the case, sometimes your minding your own business and some random dude comes up to you and yeah u kno the story from there. But then maybe u should have been out with a mahram, strictly speaking.

Also about guys going up to niqaabi's yes it happens, even ive found muslim guys approaching hijaabis and niqaabis for marriage. But frankly there just desperate and weird.

Hijab does work, once followed in its entirety - from clothing to character to attitude, the full package.

[miss-ali]

..

[uhkt_al'muminun]

Salams, What seems to be discussed here is the phsical hijab here. Meaning the scarf on the head and clothing etc etc. The state of hijab does not just include this.

Many sisters wear hijab and get stared at by men, even approached by men. Niqaabis get approached too and because of this your saying that hijab doesnt work?

From my point of view, if a woman is in physical hijab i.e hashijab on her head BUT looks around to see what dudes are checking her out, struts out in skin tight jeans, talks or acts in a flirty manner, bats her eyelashes etc etc then sure shes gonna get approached and perved on by men. I know this isnt always the case, sometimes your minding your own business and some random dude comes up to you and yeah u kno the story from there. But then maybe u should have been out with a mahram, strictly speaking.

Also about guys going up to niqaabi's yes it happens, even ive found muslim guys approaching hijaabis and niqaabis for marriage. But frankly there just desperate and weird.

Hijab does work, once followed in its entirety - from clothing to character to attitude, the full package.

:up:

Jazk'Allahukahir sis

[brjimc]

Subahn'Allah was not the verses i gave suficient enough for you???

I saw one verse from Surah 33. I new of that verse since before you talked about it.

Im simply wondering what other proofs are there that you can provide?

Too much to ask?:rubeyes:

[Black_Flag]

:up:

Jazk'Allahukahir sis

wa iyakum

[uhkt_al'muminun]

I saw one verse from Surah 33. I new of that verse since before you talked about it.

Im simply wondering what other proofs are there that you can provide?

Too much to ask?:rubeyes:

firstly dont start with ur sarcasm its not cute.
My post was very straight forward if you dont understand it well then hey :rolleyes:

[brjimc]

firstly dont start with ur sarcasm its not cute.
My post was very straight forward if you dont understand it well then hey :rolleyes:

you are a bit judgmental.

No sarcasm meant at all.

Just provide proof.

Us reverts didnt come to Islam taking people's word for it. I wont lower my standards for Muslims either.

If you arent up to the challenge, then maybe someone else can provide it for us.

Kind regards.

:)

[uhkt_al'muminun]

you are a bit judgmental.

No sarcasm meant at all.

Just provide proof.

Us reverts didnt come to Islam taking people's word for it. I wont lower my standards for Muslims either.

If you arent up to the challenge, then maybe someone else can provide it for us.

Kind regards.

:)

:rotfl: yeah ofcourse no sarcasm meant at all we must be reading diff posts :rolleyes:

anywho,
this isnt an issue of weather we are reverts or not.
why should a muslim lower his/her standard to anyone be it Muslim or not

what exactly would you like proof for? and please be specific.

[.: Anna :.]

I do understand what Shamil cousin/sister/relative (i forgot what exactly) is saying because with niqaab u do get less people looking at u or coming to talk to you, acting in like a casual way with you. Even with hijab and jilbab people still can see ur face so because of that they might say something. For example in London while im walking around sometimes these passport seeking kind of guys come up, i think cos they see the white colour so they are like oh masha allah bla bla bla can i have ur number, which with a niqaab they cant really do that cos i doubt they would have the cheek. Actually a big difference though is if u do wear a jilbab or u just wear ur normal clothes with a scarf, which i used to do cos i did not know we're not supposed to :smack: in those days these idiots used to come and try to talk a LOT more. As for niqaab it makes u look similar to all the other niqaabi girls so because u r less distinguishable they do have less to say to you, from my experience (but in UK i have not worn it, only in saudi... so im thinking here ppl might make some comments or questions wen u wear it)

But still despite all this i dnt think we can vote to say that hijaab has become pointless because it does fulfil its purpose that we are doing wat Allah has orderd from us, if u follow that opinion.

So the question really is about whether u think niqaab became wajib due to the fear of fitnah, which some scholars do advocate even from those who do not take the view that the whole woman is awra. If people think its best to follow that then masha allah it is good & may Allah reward them but still if others follow that their face and hands doesnt need 2 b covered bc they are from "what is apparent" then it is a valid opinion and cdnt really say that what we are doing is "pointless"

[`asiya]

I do understand what Shamil cousin/sister/relative (i forgot what exactly) is saying because with niqaab u do get less people looking at u or coming to talk to you, acting in like a casual way with you. Even with hijab and jilbab people still can see ur face so because of that they might say something. For example in London while im walking around sometimes these passport seeking kind of guys come up, i think cos they see the white colour so they are like oh masha allah bla bla bla can i have ur number, which with a niqaab they cant really do that cos i doubt they would have the cheek. Actually a big difference though is if u do wear a jilbab or u just wear ur normal clothes with a scarf, which i used to do cos i did not know we're not supposed to :smack: in those days these idiots used to come and try to talk a LOT more. As for niqaab it makes u look similar to all the other niqaabi girls so because u r less distinguishable they do have less to say to you, from my experience (but in UK i have not worn it, only in saudi... so im thinking here ppl might make some comments or questions wen u wear it)

But still despite all this i dnt think we can vote to say that hijaab has become pointless because it does fulfil its purpose that we are doing wat Allah has orderd from us, if u follow that opinion.

So the question really is about whether u think niqaab became wajib due to the fear of fitnah, which some scholars do advocate even from those who do not take the view that the whole woman is awra. If people think its best to follow that then masha allah it is good & may Allah reward them but still if others follow that their face and hands doesnt need 2 b covered bc they are from "what is apparent" then it is a valid opinion and cdnt really say that what we are doing is "pointless"



:jkk: anna masha Allah :up:

[brjimc]

:rotfl: yeah ofcourse no sarcasm meant at all we must be reading diff posts :rolleyes:

anywho,
this isnt an issue of weather we are reverts or not.
why should a muslim lower his/her standard to anyone be it Muslim or not

what exactly would you like proof for? and please be specific.

You obviously havent read my post without a preconceived notion.

You brought up one verse from the quran.

Elji answered to that verse with some of his proofs.

You said basically that there are many more evidences in sunnah etc.

Im just asking for the references so I can look at them.

[Lone Wolf]

LOL you kidding right? lengthen your garment would have excluded that option.

It doesnt specify how much the garment needs to be lengthened does it?

[.: Anna :.]

If people want to have a discussion about the fardh nature of hijab, or is niqaab wajib we do have alot of threads about it previously so if u search insha allah u cn find a vast amount of discussion on the forum which might give the evidences and references which u each wanted, and u could bump them up and continue in it if u wanted insha allah, because i think "is hijab fardh" is not really the topic of this specific thread

[uhkt_al'muminun]

You obviously havent read my post without a preconceived notion.

You brought up one verse from the quran.

Elji answered to that verse with some of his proofs.

You said basically that there are many more evidences in sunnah etc.

Im just asking for the references so I can look at them.

please quote to me where i have said this?

are you questioning weather hijab is Fardh or not?

[uhkt_al'muminun]

If people want to have a discussion about the fardh nature of hijab, or is niqaab wajib we do have alot of threads about it previously so if u search insha allah u cn find a vast amount of discussion on the forum which might give the evidences and references which u each wanted, and u could bump them up and continue in it if u wanted insha allah, because i think "is hijab fardh" is not really the topic of this specific thread

no probs shukran uhkti

[elji]

It doesnt specify how much the garment needs to be lengthened does it?

Well as long as the dress moderate.

[brjimc]

please quote to me where i have said this?

are you questioning weather hijab is Fardh or not?

This is the course of the discussion.

Not questioning Fard of hijab.

Just for the zillionth time asking for the other proofs you meantioned so I can review them.

[brjimc]

I am refering to the hijab which is mentioned in the quran and Sunnah. Therefore by wearing the correct hijab as mentioned in the quran and sunnah then insh'Allah it has served its purpose.

Here is where you said about proofs in sunnah

[Cristiana]

Salam aleykum,

the whole point of hijab is that the sister that observes that dress code does HER PART to avoid being stared at. Therefore, even if men still lust after her, there's no sin on her but just of them dirty pervs :up:

Some people even if you would gauge their eyes out would still "smell" sisters:o

[Khadija222333]

Salam aleykum,

the whole point of hijab is that the sister that observes that dress code does HER PART to avoid being stared at. Therefore, even if men still lust after her, there's no sin on her but just of them dirty pervs :up:

Some people even if you would gauge their eyes out would still "smell" sisters:o

Yeah. :( :nono: :freedom:

[brjimc]

Salam aleykum,

the whole point of hijab is that the sister that observes that dress code does HER PART to avoid being stared at. Therefore, even if men still lust after her, there's no sin on her but just of them dirty pervs :up:

Some people even if you would gauge their eyes out would still "smell" sisters:o

:rofl1:

Its in my nature. You'd have to talk to Allah about that.

Lets face it, we love the sisters. I do leastways

[Fais]

Erm :nervous: ... I think the Hijab should be banned in ALL Countries and the Niqab should be forced.

Thats my opinion. If anyone has a problem. take it up with LFC ... :wavey: ... :outta:

[brjimc]

lol fais.

who is lfc?

[afsalim]

Alright i was speaking to a sister (cousin) who said she felt the hijab has become pointless for her - she wasnt criticising the concept of hijab obviously - but just the fact that wearing it never stopped her getting stares from pervs or stopped guys approaching her, they "just looked past it" - she has now decided to wear the niqab to ward of any wierdos and feels much more comfortable

do you agree with her? is it something you would consider doing? does it bother you that its come to this? who's to blame?

Hijab wasn't meant to stop men staring at women perversely. It's just a religious practice. Personally I am neither opposed nor for women wearing hijab.

[Abandoned-Mind]

Hijab wasn't meant to stop men staring at women perversely. It's just a religious practice. Personally I am neither opposed nor for women wearing hijab.

So your not opposed to a command of Allah swt...Yet your not for it? You ok brother? Fish from the delta abit funny?

[Khadija222333]

lol fais.

who is lfc?

You don't wanna know. :rotfl:

[sis_niqabi]

salam

i don't think the hijab has become pointless. i just think the problem is many women who wear hijab don't wear it properly. i see too many sisters wearing tight abayas and made up faces with tons of eyeliner,eyshadow and lipstick. then i see some women who wear very flashy hijabs with gold and glitter all over the place. and sisters wearing perfume and everything. so i don't think hijab has become pointless i just think many sisters are ignorant on the correct way to wear hijab

[Khadija222333]

salam

i don't think the hijab has become pointless. i just think the problem is many women who wear hijab don't wear it properly. i see too many sisters wearing tight abayas and made up faces with tons of eyeliner,eyshadow and lipstick. then i see some women who wear very flashy hijabs with gold and glitter all over the place. and sisters wearing perfume and everything. so i don't think hijab has become pointless i just think many sisters are ignorant on the correct way to wear hijab

Yep I agree. :(

[neelu]

Re: Has Hijab become pointless???

Nowhere near as pointless as the polls on this forum:rolleyes:

[sis_niqabi]

Re: Has Hijab become pointless???

Nowhere near as pointless as the polls on this forum:rolleyes:

LOL

[Nazias]

If we didn't have our hijabs it would be a whole different story. Niqabs attract just as much stares..then theres the next level of weirdos who find the concept of niqab enthralling too.. you just can't win :rolleyes:

Even if people look it is more out of curiousity than anything else and by wearing niqab the sister can Insha'allah, face Allah(swt) knowing that she did all she could in order toavoid fitnah. :up:

[afsalim]

So your not opposed to a command of Allah swt...Yet your not for it? You ok brother? Fish from the delta abit funny?

As I have said earlier, I have neutral view on this subject.

“O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested” (33:59).

It does not say about a biohazard suit. Modesty does not revolve around jilbab. A woman can dress decently without wearing a niqab. Modesty means covering your body parts and not showing. The same applies for men. Fish from the Ganges Delta are quite tasty, you should try them!

[sis_niqabi]

As I have said earlier, I have neutral view on this subject.

“O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested” (33:59).

It does not say about a biohazard suit. Modesty does not revolve around jilbab. A woman can dress decently without wearing a niqab. Modesty means covering your body parts and not showing. The same applies for men. Fish from the Ganges Delta are quite tasty, you should try them!

so are you referring a burkha/niqab to a bio-hazard suit?

[Al-Irhaab]

anyone who says the hijab ie the literal covering of the head for women is not fard is a disbeliever...


and no im not talking about shamils original post which has a valid point mashallah

[Lone Wolf]

It does not say about a biohazard suit.

That's a bit unfair bro, no need to be insulting about a mode of dress.

A biohazard suit is useful, it can stop you getting fried by radiation!

[altaira]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7014585.stm

well this guy doesnt think hijab is pointless does he, :hidban::hidban::lailah::rubeyes::hidban::coolbro: :hidban:

[Sabr&Shukr]

Assalaamu alaikum

Really intersting discussion but I have to say I have only one thing to say insha'alllah:

"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty, that will make for greater purity for them...Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty...O you believers! Turn you all together towards Allah that you may attain success" (24:30,31).

The commandment concerning avoiding this fitnah is not only for women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty with hijab ( as a whole, of the body and heart) BUT also for the MEN to LOWER THEIR GAZE!

Brothers please lower your gaze!! ;)

A muslim woman should observe hijab correctly in order to avoid men looking at her - thats no glitz and glitter, modest behaviour, no make-up and loose fitting clothes insha'allah - but it is also essential for the brothers to lower their gaze!

Ok so all sisters do not observe hijab in its entirety as they should - maybe witha bit of sparkle or whatever - but its no use brothes saying "I couldnt help looking cos she looked so nice the way she had done her scarf " etc - tthey shouldnt be looking in the first place!

I know many of us sisters need to be firmer with ourselves perhaps when adhering to hijab and of course if we weasr skin tight stuff or whatever what can we expect....but I dont find a lot of brothers lowering their gaze either! Yeah I lower mine insha'allah but you can still find people looking at you....some men they just cant help it, its like their head is on ball-bearings - like one sister said they would still 'smell' the sisters...

This leads to fitnah - both lack of hijab for women ( or properly) or men not lowring their gaze....

Allah says: “Do not go near fornication and adultery, it is an abomination and an evil way.” (Quran 17:32).

Abu Hurayrah narrated that the Prophet said, “…the adultery of the eyes is looking (at [that] which is not allowed)…” (Bukhari, Muslim)

In another Hadith on the authority of Abu Sa’eed, the Prophet said, “A man should not look at the Awrah of another man, and the woman should not look at the Awrah of another woman…” (Muslim).


But while we are on the subject of 'hijab' - meaning to cover one's modesty and act accordingly - no loud crude behaviour, no drawing attention to oneself etc - there is also hijab for men. Yes us women are not so 'turned' by the sight of the opposite gender as men are - but brothers, please do not wear tight clothing, revealing clothing, etc - please dont do you hair in this crazy styles and wear a ton of aftershave and designer garms, tight trousers, bare arms showing off goodness-knows-what - please adhere to modesty too.

It would be nice insha'allah.:up:

Hijab for both men and women and lowering the gaze is clear-cut obligation on both genders - and it is hard in these days and times and these societies - but lets break the change yes? A little modesty goes a long way - we all need to pull our eyeballs in and remember that! :D

Sorry for the rant! lol....turned out to be more than 1 thing to say as well...:hidban:

Wasalaams

[Khadija222333]

Brothers please lower your gaze!! ;)


Yes please follow the above. :D

[Lone Wolf]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7014585.stm

well this guy doesnt think hijab is pointless does he, :hidban::hidban::lailah::rubeyes::hidban::coolbro: :hidban:

Is that beard painted on?

The guy keeps stubble for a beard and has the audacity to tell women what Islamic dress is. First he should grow his beard a bit!!

[brjimc]

anyone who says the hijab ie the literal covering of the head for women is not fard is a disbeliever...


Disbeliever in what exactly?

[Abu Mus'ab]

anyone who says the hijab ie the literal covering of the head for women is not fard is a disbeliever...


and no im not talking about shamils original post which has a valid point mashallah
Aye no doubt about that.

[Al-Irhaab]

Disbeliever in what exactly?


in allah *swT* and his messenger *SaW* and the deen of Islam...

[brjimc]

in allah *swT* and his messenger *SaW* and the deen of Islam...

I see.

I wouldnt go so far as to pronounce takfir.

However, on the topic of hijab being pointless I'd say that it is not. There is a point to wearing the hijab.

It becomes pointless if your wearing tight jeans and a shirt showing off you breasts with a hijab, which I have seen women do.

[Abu Mus'ab]

Erm :nervous: ... I think the Hijab should be banned in ALL Countries and the Niqab should be forced.

Thats my opinion. If anyone has a problem. take it up with LFC ... :wavey: ... :outta:
I was actually on my way to :buttkick: you, until i read what yu meant by your vote, you're lucky :spunch:

[Al-Irhaab]

I see.

I wouldnt go so far as to pronounce takfir.

However, on the topic of hijab being pointless I'd say that it is not. There is a point to wearing the hijab.

It becomes pointless if your wearing tight jeans and a shirt showing off you breasts with a hijab, which I have seen women do.

if someone denies even one part of the quran even one ayah they are denying the whole quran... even if their denying is to explain away the meaning by giving it metaphorical meanings as some people do...

[-Shamil-]

Re: Has Hijab become pointless???

Nowhere near as pointless as the polls on this forum:rolleyes:

moody people we have on here sometimes, honestly :rolleyes:

[brjimc]

if someone denies even one part of the quran even one ayah they are denying the whole quran... even if their denying is to explain away the meaning by giving it metaphorical meanings as some people do...


Well bro, on that level, I think only Allah can say. Allahu 'alim.

Takfir isnt for the common Muslim to pronounce, however. only a group of scholars can do this in the absence of a khalif

[Abu Hurairah]

Well bro, on that level, I think only Allah can say. Allahu 'alim.

Takfir isnt for the common Muslim to pronounce, however. only a group of scholars can do this in the absence of a khalif
You do realise the brother never actually did any takfir at all right?

He simply explained a general principle that if one denies any verse of Allah (swt) in the Qur'an when we as Muslims must believe in every word than this individual is a kaffir, clear-cut, khalas.

So in effect like he clearly explained previously if a person regardless if he says he is a Muslim or not comes forward and says sallah is no longer needed or that hijaab (the covering of the head of sisters) is not necessary when such matters are clearly stated as obligations in the Qur'an that na'am indeed this person has committed major kufr.

[Al-Irhaab]

Well bro, on that level, I think only Allah can say. Allahu 'alim.

Takfir isnt for the common Muslim to pronounce, however. only a group of scholars can do this in the absence of a khalif

as bro abu hurrairah said very well i'm not telling you that such and such a person is kaafir or to do takfir... this is a general principle but like you said its up to scholars to apply and then make a decision... for us its just a principle that we need to understand and then appreciate when we think about what we say ourselves or when someone is telling us something erroneous...

[brjimc]

. for us its just a principle that we need to understand and then appreciate when we think about what we say ourselves or when someone is telling us something erroneous...


okay :)

[brjimc]

You do realise the brother never actually did any takfir at all right?



bro, I fear Allah too much to even insinuate or suggest that another Muslim is a kafir. On the Day of Judgment I dont want Allah to bring that back on me.

[Abu Hurairah]

bro, I fear Allah too much to even insinuate or suggest that another Muslim is a kafir. On the Day of Judgment I dont want Allah to bring that back on me.
Thats all very nice and jolly but you didn't feel shy to insinuate or suggest that another Muslim, ie. my brother in Islam Al Irhaab somehow by your flawed logic apparently did takfir when he clearly did not.

Is it the case of me and myself do not do takfir masha'allah as I know how serious that is but I do go on forums suggesting other brothers do takfir when in fact they do not?

May Allah (swt) guide us all and and make the Day of Judgement not difficult- Ameen.

[Nazias]

May Allah (swt) guide us all and and make the Day of Judgement not difficult- Ameen.

Ameen!

[Loobna]

I love wearing my hijab :inlove: I think you do get treated with more respect by men but you do get the weirdos staring too - depends on the guys i guess. I found that some girls on my course were a bit funny towards me when I started wearing it but the guys just took it as a sign of 'I'm friendly - but keep your distance' lol

[brjimc]

Thats all very nice and jolly but you didn't feel shy to insinuate or suggest that another Muslim, ie. my brother in Islam Al Irhaab somehow by your flawed logic apparently did takfir when he clearly did not.

Is it the case of me and myself do not do takfir masha'allah as I know how serious that is but I do go on forums suggesting other brothers do takfir when in fact they do not?

May Allah (swt) guide us all and and make the Day of Judgement not difficult- Ameen.

Well YOUR brother is also my brother. And identifying when a brother is doing something against Islam is my duty as a Muslim according to the Prophet (pbuh). If I am wrong, so be it, there is nothing to worry about. If I am right then fear Allah!

If I have identified a bro as pronouncing takfir, I will say something. It wasnt clear that he was not, until he explained himself. I said, 'okay'.

Why do you have a problem with a brother in Islam careing so much about his fellow brothers to mention it even if it might not be correct? You have no issue pointing fingers yourself.

I would be shocked if you saw a brother doing something that you thought was wrong and defied the Prophet when he tells us:

"He among you who witnesses an evil, let him change (stop, remove) it with his hand, if he could not, then with his tongue, and if he could not, then with his heart, and this is the weakest Iman." [Al-Bukhari]

[Abu Hurairah]

Well YOUR brother is also my brother. And identifying when a brother is doing something against Islam is my duty as a Muslim according to the Prophet (pbuh). If I am wrong, so be it, there is nothing to worry about. If I am right then fear Allah!
Do you actually ponder over what you type before you post?

1. If Akhy Al Irhaab is in fact your brother than at the very least treat him as such subhan'allah rather than think bad of him or other believers- or do you go round accusing your brothers of takfir like you did? I wonder what you do to those who aren't your brother. :rubeyes:
2. The Akhy Al Irhaab did nothing against Islam at all- you just concluded he did when you should not think bad of a believer unneccessarily, and here is was clearly not needed.
3. Of all the things to think of a Muslim you without basis made out he did takfir, yet you yourself have stated how serious that is, so if you yourself avoid this why conclude another Muslim does not when he did not even do so?
4. What on earth is this twisted logic of 'If I am wrong, so be it, there is nothing to worry about' :confused:, are you somehow exempt from sin for accusing Muslims of takfir falsely or something? Then you tell me to fear Allah (swt) masha'allah when I neither did takfir nor actually accused a Muslim of this without due cause.

If I have identified a bro as pronouncing takfir, I will say something. It wasnt clear that he was not, until he explained himself. I said, 'okay'.
This is just bogus- he did no takfir whatsoever, you do not even know what takfir is if you identify that post as takfir. :smack:

If I say a general statement that if anyone curses upon our Rabb Allah (swt) or our beloved Rasul (saw) then he is a kaffir- then khalas that is a statement of truth, who is it that I did takfeer upon there? Name him and tell him to come forward. If you do as such cursing Allah or the Rasul you are a kaffir and not Muslim, clear-cut.

Perhaps you should hand the 'Takfir Police' duty role to someone else otherwise more innocent brothers and sister will be accused of a serious matter such as takfir by you like this, and this is no small matter.

Why do you have a problem with a brother in Islam careing so much about his fellow brothers to mention it even if it might not be correct? You have no issue pointing fingers yourself.
:scratch: Speak English please not non-sense.

Are you saying I care too much for the brother and thats a problem whereby I am ignoring his ghostly/ jinn type non-existant takfir?

Or are you saying I have some problem myself with alleged takfir too or that I should not correct people when they falsely accuse brothers and sisters of takfir in such a loose manner?

I would be shocked if you saw a brother doing something that you thought was wrong and defied the Prophet when he tells us:

"He among you who witnesses an evil, let him change (stop, remove) it with his hand, if he could not, then with his tongue, and if he could not, then with his heart, and this is the weakest Iman." [Al-Bukhari]
You should not be shocked- if I actually saw Akhy Al Irhaab or any brother or sister actually do takfeer, not 'made up-fake-imaginary-make belief-bogus-so called-home made' takfeer then I would indeed correct him or her no matter if it was Akhy Al Irhaab or any other, that would not stop me.

However, because of this duty to correct a brother I would not neglect other duties whereby I am to think good of him and uphold his honour in public and private so that I am prevented to be so eagre to run along and accuse him of takfir when according to all known definitions of takfir he never even did takfir rather stipulated a known fact.

By falsely accusing another be it intentionally or by mistake of doing takfir when he did not do, can you not see that in itself as evil- so serious a matter as wrongly accusing another of takfir whereby apparently he called a Muslim a kaffir? Thereby what did you expect me to do here but abide by that very hadith you stated above masha'allah and practice that and stop the evil of a brother being accused of takfir by someone when he remains innocent of that which he was accused from what is clearly apparent in his post.

May Allah (swt) guide us- Ameen.

[Fais]

Calm down girls .. put your handbags away ... And take 2 steps back. Relax ... Its Ramadan :D ... :outta:

[Abu Hurairah]

Calm down girls .. put your handbags away ... And take 2 steps back. Relax ... Its Ramadan :D ... :outta:
Akhy were you that chubby brother who ate my iftar then took up the space of three brothers in Maghrib?

The Imam sa'ab said he needs to talk to you- you may need to buy your own food and will have to pray outside from now on.

[Fais]

I was actually on my way to :buttkick: you, until i read what yu meant by your vote, you're lucky :spunch:

:nervous: ...

[Fais]

Akhy were you that chubby brother who ate my iftar then took up the space of three brothers in Maghrib?

The Imam sa'ab said he needs to talk to you- you may need to buy your own food and will have to pray outside from now on.

Aww man :( ... What can i say ... I was hungry :crying: .. ANd pray outside? ... Its cold :( ...