Hands on chest while praying numaaz

[Shedy]

Hey..

I notice few men put hands on his chest while praying numaaz? I thought female do that!!!

[Saeed Al-Muslim]

Where Should The Hands Be Folded and Placed After Saying Takbir Tahrimah?

Some people place their hands under the navel, others place them under the chest but there are Ahadith which state that the Prophet Muhammad (saw) used to place his hands over his chest. Halb Ataee (ra) reported: "I saw the Prophet (saw) placing his right hand over his left hand over his chest." (Ahmad, Tirmidhi). Wa'il bin Hajr (ra) said: "I prayed with the Prophet Muhammad (saw) and he put his right hand over his left hand over his chest." (Ibn Khuzaimah, Abu Dawud and Muslim).There are some narrations which state that some Fuqha used to place their hands under the chest but above the navel. Placing the hands in either of these positions is correct but it is better to place them over chest according to the practice of the Prophet Muhammad (saw) as mentioned in the above authentic Ahadith.

Source: A Guide to Salat (Prayer) by Muhammad Abdul Karim Saqib (Dar-us-Salaam).

[Shedy]

Thanks..

Why do most people put his hands on his tummy?

[aboosait]

Thanks..

Why do most people put his hands on his tummy?

Reasons:

1. Lack of knowledge

2. Blind Taqleed.]

[Silver Pearl]

Where Should The Hands Be Folded and Placed After Saying Takbir Tahrimah?

Some people place their hands under the navel, others place them under the chest but there are Ahadith which state that the Prophet Muhammad (saw) used to place his hands over his chest. Halb Ataee (ra) reported: "I saw the Prophet (saw) placing his right hand over his left hand over his chest." (Ahmad, Tirmidhi). Wa'il bin Hajr (ra) said: "I prayed with the Prophet Muhammad (saw) and he put his right hand over his left hand over his chest." (Ibn Khuzaimah, Abu Dawud and Muslim).There are some narrations which state that some Fuqha used to place their hands under the chest but above the navel. Placing the hands in either of these positions is correct but it is better to place them over chest according to the practice of the Prophet Muhammad (saw) as mentioned in the above authentic Ahadith.

Source: A Guide to Salat (Prayer) by Muhammad Abdul Karim Saqib (Dar-us-Salaam).


Wa alaykum salam warahmatullaah,

Actually Ibn Khuzaymah narrated that hadeeth as being dha'eef as he mentioned it right at the bottom of all the other saheeh which is an indication to its weakness. Allaahu'3llaam.

The four schools of thought say to put it between the chest and the navel. Wa Allaahu'3llaam.

[As-Sideeq]

Thanks..

Why do most people put his hands on his tummy?

Asalamu alaikum,

Those who follow the hanafi fiqh placed their hands under their navel.

To see the evidence in ahadeeth please click here. (http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?id=2030)

[Z-Blade]

:salams,

Asalamu alaikum,

Those who follow the hanafi fiqh placed their hands under their navel.

To see the evidence in ahadeeth please click here. (http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?id=2030)

^ It's as the bro said.


<B>Reasons:

1. Lack of knowledge</B>


2. Blind Taqleed.

This is wrong and is either mistaken or a lie.

Wassalam.

[aboosait]

:salams,



^ It's as the bro said.



This is wrong and is either mistaken or a lie.

Wassalam.

I have seen many mullahs in the Urdu speaking areas of India praying with their hand below the naval and the sight was so awkward that I had to lower my gaze in shame.

In the Sunnipath.com Shaykh Abdurrahman ibn Yusuf Mangera himself writes after quoting a hadith in favour of tieing hands below the naval: The problem with this narration is that it contains ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn Ishaq in its chain who has been classified as weak. The Hanafis have not fully relied on this narration as a basis for their opinion.http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?id=2030

[As-Sideeq]

I have seen many mullahs in the Urdu speaking areas of India praying with their hand below the naval and the sight was so awkward that I had to lower my gaze in shame.

In the Sunnipath.com Shaykh Abdurrahman ibn Yusuf Mangera himself writes after quoting a hadith in favour of tieing hands below the naval:

Asalamu alaikum,

Brother you half quoted it:

The problem with this narration is that it contains ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn Ishaq in its chain who has been classified as weak. The Hanafis have not fully relied on this narration as a basis for their opinion, but since there are many other narrations which reinforce it, it could still stand as supplementary evidence

Also if you read further on he provides two more ahadeeth which can be used as evidence for hands being placed below the navel.

If you disagree with this, then please simply agree to disagree.


Allah knows best.

wa alaikum asalam

[Z-Blade]

:salams,

I see the brother has already answered you :up:. :jkk:.

Wassalam.

[Saeed Al-Muslim]

Shedy, if you are of the Hanafi Madhab. Then for now it is better for you not to ask such questions. Rather go and learn your madhab, and stick to that.

Ma'aSalaama

[aboosait]

[QUOTE]Asalamu alaikum,

:wswrwb:

...........then please simply agree to disagree......................

:argue:

[Debater]

People fold their hands below their navel, on chest or wherever, leave them alone, at least they are praying to Allah, that's all is required, please don't argue on the methods, as our predecessors already have divided us into sects, it's not possible now to find the 'exact way' the Prophet of Islam used to pray. Just make the intention to pray salaat and please Allah and inshaAllah it will be accepted, fine, you can follow scholars but please don't say that others are wrong because you yourself can't prove you are the only one who is correct and perfect, maybe you are not.

[salahuldin786]

Abu Nu`aym relates in Hilyat al-Awliya [8.74], with his chain of transmission to Rabah ibn al-Harawi:

Isam ibn Yusuf passed by Hatim al-Asamm -- one of the great early masters of the spiritual path -- while he was speaking to a gathering. Isam said, "O Hatim! Do you pray well?" Hatim replied, "Yes."

Isam asked him, "How do you pray?"

Hatim responded,

I fulfill the Divine Command;
I walk with reverent awe;
I enter the prayer with intention;
I give the opening takbir with magnification of Allah;
I recite the Qur''an in a distinct and measured recitation, with reflection;
I bow with reverence;
I prostrate with humility;
I sit for the tashahhud completely;
I give salams according to the proper way and sunna.

Then I consign the prayer to Allah (Mighty and Majestic) with sincerity. And I return to myself in fear, fearing that the prayer will not be accepted of me. I hold fast to this way with resolve, until death."

Isam said, "You can teach, for you indeed pray well."

And Allah alone gives success.

Translated by Faraz Rabbani


حلية الأولياء [ جزء 8 - صفحة 74 ]



حدثنا عبدالله بن محمد بن جعفر ثنا عبدالرحمن بن أبي حاتم حدثني علوان بن الحسين الربعي ثنا رباح بن الهروي قال مر عصام بن يوسف بحاتم الأصم وهو يتكلم في مجلسه فقال يا حاتم تحسن تصلي قال نعم قال كيف تصلي قال حاتم أقوم بالأمر وأمشي بالخشية وأدخل بالنية وأكبر بالعظمة وأقرأ بالترتيل والتفكر وأركع بالخشوع وأسجد بالتواضع وأجلس للتشهد بالتمام وأسلم بالسبل والسنة وأسلمها بالإخلاص إلى الله عز وجل وأرجع على نفسي بالخوف أخاف أن لا يقبل مني وأحفظه بالجهد إلى الموت قال تكلم فأنت تحسن تصلي

[aboosait]

People fold their hands below their navel, on chest or wherever, leave them alone, at least they are praying to Allah, that's all is required, please don't argue on the methods, as our predecessors already have divided us into sects, it's not possible now to find the 'exact way' the Prophet of Islam used to pray. Just make the intention to pray salaat and please Allah and inshaAllah it will be accepted, fine, you can follow scholars but please don't say that others are wrong because you yourself can't prove you are the only one who is correct and perfect, maybe you are not.

The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam has said:


"Pray as you have seen me praying." (transmitted by al-Bukhaari)

Please visit:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/pillars/prayer/albaani/prayer_1.html

Or,


http://www.qss.org/articles/salah/toc.html

Or,


http://www.qibla.org/pray.htm

Or,


http://muttaqun.com/prayer/toc.html

Or,


http://muttaqun.com/prayer/toc.html

[aboosait]

Abu Nu`aym

Rabah ibn al-Harawi

Isam ibn Yusuf

Hatim al-Asamm --

Who among the four is according to you

[QUOTE]one of the great early masters of the spiritual path --

And what do you mean by the spiritual path

And who gave them this title?

But Allah s.w.t says,

An-Nisa (The Women)

فَلاَ وَرَبِّكَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ حَتَّىَ يُحَكِّمُوكَ فِيمَا شَجَرَ بَيْنَهُمْ ثُمَّ لاَ يَجِدُواْ فِي أَنفُسِهِمْ حَرَجًا مِّمَّا قَضَيْتَ وَيُسَلِّمُواْ تَسْلِيمًا

(4:65)

4:65 But nay, by thy Sustainer! They do not [really] believe unless they make thee [O Prophet] a judge of all on which they disagree among themselves, and then find in their hearts no bar to an acceptance of thy decision and give themselves up [to it] in utter self-surrender. [84]

Note 84 (Quran Ref: 4:65 )
This verse lays down in an unequivocal manner the obligation of every Muslim to submit to the ordinances, which the Prophet, under divine inspiration, promulgated with a view to exem*plifying the message of the Qur’an and enabling the believers to apply it to actual situations. These ordinances constitute what is described as the sunnah (lit., "way") of the Prophet Muhammad, and have (whenever they are authenticated beyond any possibility of doubt) full legal force side by side with the Qur’an: see verse 80 of this surah.(Quran Ref: 4:65 )

Source: http://www.islamicity.com/

[salahuldin786]

il make it easy for you salafi's
http://www.geocities.com/mutmainaa1/prayer/how_pray.html

[salahuldin786]

Asalamu alaikum,

Those who follow the hanafi fiqh placed their hands under their navel.

To see the evidence in ahadeeth please click here. (http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?id=2030)

subhan allah my brother that was very good,

[Abu.Bakr]

Whether you put your hands on your chest or not, I highly doubt it will invalidate your prayer. How about we concentrate more on our connection with Allaah in our prayer instead of where we put our hands? Or whether we keep our finger up during at-tahiyaat? Or whether we raise our hands to our ears when we come up from Ruku? No doubt they are important issues, but SubhanAllaah there are more important things to think about

[salahuldin786]

The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam has said:


"Pray as you have seen me praying." (transmitted by al-Bukhaari)

Please visit:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/pillars/prayer/albaani/prayer_1.html

Or,


http://www.qss.org/articles/salah/toc.html

Or,


http://www.qibla.org/pray.htm

Or,


http://muttaqun.com/prayer/toc.html

Or,


http://muttaqun.com/prayer/toc.html




do you know that Muhammad Naasir ad-Deen al-Albaani was not a scholer.

[aboosait]

do you know that Muhammad Naasir ad-Deen al-Albaani was not a scholer.

Was he your classmate?

[salahuldin786]

Was he your classmate?

look his history up he was not a scholar of islam like abdul wahhab.

[HelpingHand]

Asslamo Allaikum,

With the greatest respect to brother, there is a valid difference of opinion on WHERE to hold hands in Salah amongst the scholars and the “Salafi” position of holding hands on the chest is certainly NOT immune from scrutiny and there are “Salafi” brothers who candidly accept that the fact and their position is that “it is strengthened by many weak narrations in this regard (same as Hanafiyya or anybody else )”

1) Before proceeding, see attachment!
2) May Allah (SWT) reward Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) for the good and forgive him for his sins & errors as many Muhadetheen around the world admit to his errors, he was after-all a human!

1. Sayyiduna Wail bin Hujr (ra) says, 'I prayed with the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) and he placed his right hand over his left on his chest. (Ibn Khuzaimah, 479)

Imam Nimawi says, 'It's isnad is questionable and the additional wording 'on his chest' is inauthentic and not established.'

This hadeeth has been reported by Muammal bin Ismaeel from Sufyan al Thawri from Aasim bin Kulaib from Wail bin Hujr (ra) -However it is only Muammal who reports these additional words from Sufyan al Thawri. Sufyan's other student, Abdullah bin al Waleed who also narrates this hadeeth from him does not include these words in his narration as recorded in Imam Ahmad's Musnad. (Ahmad 18392)

The other narrators who report the hadeeth together with Sufyan al Thawri from Aasim bin Kulaib have also not included these words in their narrations. Observe the following list of narrators who have al reported the same hadeeth from Aasim bin Kulaib but none of then have included the additional words reported by Muammal bin Ismaeel

• Sh'ubah, Abdul Wahid, and Zubair bin Muawiyah as in Imam Ahmad's Musnad. (Ahmad 18398, 18371 & 18397)

• Zaidah as in Imam Ahmad's Musnad, Darimi, Abu Dawood. Nasai and Baihaqi (Ahmad 18391, Darimi 1357, Abu Dawood 726, Nasai 889 and Baihaqi 2325)

• Bishr bin al Mufaddhal as in Ibn Majah, Abu Dawood and Nasai (Ibn Majah 810, Abu Dawood 726 & 957, and Nasai 1265)

• Abdullah bin Idrees as in Ibn Majah (Ibn Majah 810)

• Salam bin Saleem as in Abu Dawood Tayalisi's Musnad (Abu Dawood Tayalisi 1020)

There are many other chains for this hadeeth, however, none contain this extra wording. Thus, it is clear that this is Muammal bin Ismaeel's own erroneous addition to the hadeeth. Ibn al Qayyim al Jawziyyah also says in I'laam al Muwaqqieen, 'No one has said upon the chest apart from Muammal bin Ismaeel.’ (I'ilaam al Muwaqqieen 2/361) Therefore, as Imam Nimawi has concluded in his al Ta'leeq al Hasan, this hadeeth with the additional wording of' upon his chest' is extremely weak.

It is an accepted principle of hadeeth that if a certain authentic and reliable narrator contradicts other equally authentic or more reliable 'arrators in his wording of a hadeeth then his narration will be declared shaadh and will not be accepted. If this is the case with authentic narrators, then an irregular addition of the words 'upon the chest' cannot be accepted from a narrator who, although declared acceptable by some, errs excessively and is weak of memory like Muammal bin Ismaeel. Study the following observations of the scholars of Jarh and T'adeel about Muammal bin Ismaeel:

Abu Hatim says, 'He is sadooq, firm in sunnah, but one of many mistakes
Imam Bukhari says, 'Muammal is munkar al hadeeth (People who view Imam Bukhari as the ultimate authority in matters of Hadeeth should note his following statement: 'It is not permissible to narrate from anyone whom I have labelled munkar al hadeeth [Mizan al I'itidal. 1/119]

Dhahabi says in al Kashif, 'He is sadooq, firm in sunnah, but one of many mistakes. It was also said that he buried his books and narrated by heart and thus erred. '

Ibn Sa'd says, 'He is thiqah, though one of many mistakes.'

Yakub bin Sufyan says, 'Muammal Abu Abdul Rahman is a great sunni shaikh. I heard Sulaiman bin Harb praise him. Our shaikhs would advise us to take his hadeeth, only that his hadeeth are not like the hadeeth of his companions. At times it is obligatory upon the people of knowledge to distance themselves from his narrations as he narrates munkar ahadeeth from even his authentic teachers. This is worse for had he narrated these munkar ahadeeth from weak authorities we would have excused him.'
Saji says, 'He errs excessively. He is sadooq, but one of many mistakes. He has errors that would take too long to be mentioned.'

Muhammad bin Nasr al Marwazi says, 'If Muammal alone relates a certain narration then it becomes obligatory to pause and research the hadeeth as he had a bad memory and erred excessively (See Tahdheeb al Tahdheeb)
Hafidh Ibn Hajar has made it clear in his Fath al Bari that there is dh 'af (weakness) in Muammal bin Ismaeel's narrations from Sufyan (Fath al Bari, 9/297). The above hadeeth has this very chain of narration.

We must also bear in mind that Sayyiduna Wail Ibn Hujr(ra), the very companion who narrates this hadeeth, was a resident of Kufa, and the practice of the people of Kufa was to fasten their hands below the navel. There is nothing to suggest that he contravened this practice. Sufyan al Thawri, from whom Muammal narrates this hadeeth, is himself of the view that the hands should be placed below the navel (Ibn Qudamah in al Mughni 2/23, and others as quoted by the author of Bughyah al Almaee 1/316)

2. Sayyiduna Hulb (ra) relates, 'I saw the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) turn from both his right and left and I also saw him place this upon his chest.' Yahya (one of the narrators) described this as being the right hand upon the left above the wrist joint. (Ahmad 21460. Allamah Hashim Sindhi says in Dirham al Surrah p. 113 that both Simak bin Harb and Qabeesah (two of the narrators of this hadeeth) have been disparaged by some of the ulama of jarh and t'adeel.)

The above hadeeth contains the words 'upon his chest'. This extra wording is not firmly established or confirmed, because of all the narrators who report this hadeeth from Simak, only one reports this extra wording.
Observe the following narrations of the same hadeeth without the extra wording of 'upon his chest'.

• Abu al Ahwas reports from Simak bin Harb from Qabeesah bin Hulb from his father that the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) would lead us in prayer and would clasp his left hand with his right.293

• Shareek reports from Simak from Qabeesah bin Hulb from his father who says (towards the end of a longer hadeeth), 'I saw him place one of his hands on the other and I also saw him turn once towards his right and once towards his left.'294
Wakee reports from Sufyan from Simak bin Harb from Qabeesah bin Hulb from his father who says, 'I saw the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) place his right hand upon his left in prayer and I also saw him turn away from both his right and left.'295

• Daruqutni narrates from Abdul Rahman bin Mahdi and Wakee', from Sufyan from Simak bin Harb from Qabeesah bin Hulb from his father who says, 'I saw the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) place his right hand upon his left in prayer.' (Daruqutni 1087)

The above narrations all clearly show that the wording 'upon his chest' is an unreliable addition on the part of one of the reporters and therefore this particular narration is shaadh.

Imam Nimawi adds in his al T'aleeq al Hasan (1/145):

'I have a suspicion that the wording of this hadeeth has mistakenly been changed by a writer. The correct words would appear to be "Yadhau hadhihi ala hadhihi", i.e., "he would place this hand upon this hand", and not "hadhihi ala sadrihi", i.e., "this hand upon his chest". Only this wording would be in agreement with the narrators own interpretation of the hadeeth as is stated in the narration "Yahya described this as being the right hand upon the left above the wrist joint". This would also tally with all the other narrations of this hadeeth that do not contain the wording "upon the chest", and would also explain why the following authors have not included this narration in their comprehensive books: Haithami in his Majm'a al Zawaid, Suyuti in his Jam' al Jawami, and Ali al Muttaqi in his Kanz alUmmal. And Allah knows best.'

The author of Awn al M'abud also admits that Yahya's commentary does not fit the wording of the hadeeth.

3. Taawoos narrates that The Messenger of Allah [salallahu alayhi wa sallam] used to place his right hand over his left, and then clasp them firmly on his chest during prayer. (Abu Dawood 759)

Imam Nimawi has declared this hadeeth to be weak.
(al T’aleeq al Hasan 1/145. Allamah Hashim Sindhi says in Dirham al Surrah p27 that the authenticity of two of its narrators has been disputed: Sulaiman bin Musa and Haitham bin Humaid.)

This hadith is mursal and its isnad contains Sulaiman bin Musa who has been classified as weak by some scholars. Bukhari claims that he has munkar narrations. Nasai says that he is not strong in Hadeeth. Hafidh says in al Taqreeb, “He is a sadooq and faqeeh. There is some (leen) “weakness” in his hadeeth.” Furthermore, Abu Dawood has recorded the same narration in his Maraseel but with a different wording. Instead of “he clasped them firmly on his chest” that narration reads “he entwined the fingers of his hands on his chest. [Maraseel Abi Dawood, p85]

This hadeeth is also mursal and although mursal narrations are not readily accepted by others, the Hanafi Ulama consider them acceptable as evidence. Therefore, as some have pointed out, this narration is binding on us. However, we say that the saheeh hadith of Sayyiduna Wail bin Hujr [radiyallahu anhu] narrated by Ibn Abi Shaibah takes precedence and the ahadeeth of Sayyidina Ali (ra) and Siyyiduna Abu Hurairah (ra) are more acceptable to us because they explicitly mention the sunnah being below the navel. Tawoos’s words “he would” cannot match the words of the companions “it is sunnah”. Also as mentioned earlier the very wording of Tawoos’s hadeeth is in dispute. Moreover, Tawoos’s mursal narration is opposed to the mursal narrations of Ibrahim al Nakhai and Abu Mijlaz.

4. Sayyiduna Wail ibn Hujr (ra) narrates, ''I was present with the Prophet [salallahu alahyi wasalam]. He rose, went towards the masjid and entered the mihraab. He raised his hands with takbeer and then placed his right hand over his left upon his chest.'' (Bayhaqi 2335)

Imam Nimawi says,

“Its isnad is extremely weak. Dhahabi has said about Muhammad bin Hujr in Mizaan that he has munkar narrations. Bukhari has said that there is a question about him. . Ibn al Turkmani says, “The mother of Abdul Jabbar is the mother of Yahya. I do no know her name or her details (grade of reliability).” Saeed bin Abdul Jabbar is also weak. Dhahabi quotes Nasai in his Mizaan as saying that Saeed bin Abdul Jabbar is not strong. Hafidh ibn Hajar says in Taqreeb, “Saeed bin Abdul Jabbar al Hadhrami al Kufi is weak.” [al T’aleeq al Hasan 1/145]


[B]5. Aqabah bin Sahban reports that Sayyiduna Ali (ra) commenting on the verse [So pray unto thy Lord, and sacrifice] explained, that this means to place the right hand upon the middle of the left upon the chest. (Bayhaqi 2337)

Ibn al Turkmani says that both the sanad and the text of this narration are mudhtarib. [al Jawhar al Naqiyy 2/46]


6. Abu al Jawz reports from Sayyiduna ibn Abbas (ra) that he said of the verse [So pray unto thy Lord, and sacrifice]: This means placing the right hand upon the left in prayer, on the chest.

(Bayhaqi 2339. Allamah Hashim says in Dirham al Surrah p28, “The hadeeth is weak on two accounts: because it is muqati’ and also because three of its narrators, Amr, Yahya and Rawh are weak. So this should be considered. Furthermore, the authors of Muheet al Burhani and Majm’a al Bahrain have narrated a marf’u hadetteh from Ibn Abbas [radiyallahu anhu] with the words “It is part of sunnah to place the right hand upon the left below the navel in salah.”)

Imam Nimawi has declared the isnad of this narration to be weak.

He says, “Rawh bin al Musayyab is matrook [abandoned]. Ibn Hibban says that Rawh Ibn al Musayyab narrates and ascribes fabricated traditions even to reliable authorities. It is not permissible to narrate from him. Ibn Adiyy says that his narrations are not preserved.” [al T’aleeq al Hasan 1/146]


The sanad also contains a third narrator, Amr bin Malik al Nakri. Ibn al Turkmani writes of him in al Jawhar al Naqiyy saying,

“Ibn Adiyy has said that Amr al Nakri is munkar al Hadeeth even when narrating from reliable authorities. He plagiarised narration and Abu Ya’la al Mawsili declared him dhaeef.” [al Jawhar al Naqiyy 2/47]


The correct Tafseer of this verse:

Ibn Jareer al Tabari, quoting the tafseer of the ulama which he states is the most correct, writes:

“The meaning of this verse is that “Oh Porophet of Allah! Make all your prayers sincere for the sake of your Lord, whithout any share for other false gods and deities, and also make all your sacrifices solely for the sake of your Lord without any share for other idols.” [Ibn Jareer al Tabari in his Tafseer 12/724]


7. Ibn Jarir al Dhabbiyy reports from his father who said, “I saw Ali (ra) clasping his left hand with his right on the wrist, above the navel.'' (Abu Dawood 757)

Imam Nimawi writes in Aathar al Sunan that the additional wording “above the navel” is not authentic and established. The same hadeeth has been narrated in al Safinah al Jaraidiyyah on the authority of Muslim bin Ibrahim, one of Bukhari’s shaykhs, in al Musannaf of Abu Bakr bin Abi Shaibah, [Ibn Abi Shaibah 3940 & 8722] and in Bukhari [in the chapters relating to actions in salah] in muallaq, abridged form. However, none of these narrations contain the extra wording “above the navel”. The only narrator to include this additional wording in the hadeeth is Abu Badr Shuja bin al Walid narrating from Abu Talut Abdus Salam bin Abi Hazim. Shuja’ has been considered reliable by some, but Abu Hatim says of him as quoted by Hafidh Ibn Hajar in his introduction [to Fath al Bari], and by Dhahabi in his Mizan that “He is weak in hadeeth; a shaykh who is not strong and therefore, his word cannot be acceptable in evidence, although he has saheeh ahadeeth from Muhammad bin Amr bin Alqamah.” Hafidh Ibn Hajar also says in his Taqreeb, “He is pious, sudooq and he has mistakes.” [al T’aleeq al Hasan 1/146]

[HelpingHand]

Asslamo Allaikum,

As I said that there is a valid difference of opinion on this issue and the evidence of Hanafees is highlighted in the following link!

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/handsslh.htm

Ask the scholars and follow the strongest position recommended by the scholars...

1) The Salafees position is not ABSOLUTE!
2) The Hanafee position is not ABSOLUTE!

[aboosait]

[QUOTE]Asslamo Allaikum,

:wswrwb:

As I said that there is a valid difference of opinion on this issue................

To Place The Hands On The Chest

"He used to place the right arm on the back of his left palm, wrist and forearm"[75], "and he commanded his companions to do likewise" [76], and (sometimes) "he would grasp his left arm with his right." [77]
"He used to place them on his chest." [78]
Also "he used to forbid putting one's hand on the waist during prayer [and he put his hand on his waist (to demonstrate)]"79. And this is the "silb" which he used to forbid. [80]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Footnotes:
[75] Abu Daawood, an-Nasaa.ee and Ibn Khuzaymah (1/54/2) with a saheeh isnaad, and Ibn Hibbaan declared it saheeh (485).

[76] Maalik, al-Bukhaaree and Abu `Awaanah.

[77] an-Nasaa.ee and ad-Daaraqutnee with a saheeh isnaad. In this hadeeth there is evidence that grasping is from the sunnah, and in the previous hadeeth that so is placing, so both are sunnah. As for the combination of holding and placing, which some of the later Hanafees hold to be good, then that is an innovation; its form as they state is to place the right hand on the left, holding the wrist with the little finger and the thumb, and laying flat the remaining three fingers, as described in Ibn `Aabideen's Footnotes on Durr al-Mukhtaar (1/454); so do not be confused by what they say.

[78] Abu Daawood, Ibn Khuzaymah in his saheeh (1/54/2), Ahmad and Abu Shaykh in Taareekh Isbahaan (p. 125); at-Tirmidhee declared one of its isnaads hasan, and its meaning is found in Al-Muwatta' and Saheeh Al-Bukhaaree if considered carefully. I have fully quoted the isnaads of this hadeeth in my book Ahkaam al-Janaa.iz (p. 118)

NOTE: To place them on the chest is what is proved in the Sunnah, and all that is contrary to it is either da`eef or totally baseless. In fact, Imaam Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh acted on this sunnah, as Marwazee said in Masaa.il (p. 222): "Ishaaq used to pray witr with us - he would raise his hands in qunoot, and make the qunoot before bowing, and place his hands on his breast or just under his breast." Similar is the saying of Qaadhee `Iyaad al-Maaliki in Mustahabbaat as-Salaah in his book al-I`laam (p.15, 3rd edition, Rabat): "the right arm is to be placed on the back of the left, on the upper part of the chest." Close to this is what `Abdullaah ibn Ahmad ibn Hanbal related in his Masaa.il (p. 62): "I saw that when praying, my father placed his hands, one on the other, above the navel." See Appendix 4.

[79] al-Bukhaaree and Muslim. It is given in Irwaa' (374) as well as the following one.

[80] Abu Daawood, an-Nasaa.ee and others.

Source: www.fatwaonline.com

[joneyyoung]

forget about hanafies and salfies

think about this

the area between navel to knee is known as satar. the area for man to be concealed from any man or woman other then mate.

now when i see anyone praying with their hands below the navel it is as if they are folding their hand on .........

it is ugly

[al faqeer]

Who said the hands have to be on the chest :D ?

Al Albani ? Wait its ramadaan I willl do a number on him after Ramadaan .


But seriously You can put your hands on your chest or on your sides like the Malikis do or above the navel , what difference does it make ,

Stop Complicating the Deen YAAA KHALAFIYA ! .

[MuslimWays]

forget about hanafies and salfies

think about this

the area between navel to knee is known as satar. the area for man to be concealed from any man or woman other then mate.

now when i see anyone praying with their hands below the navel it is as if they are folding their hand on .........

it is ugly

100% agree with you there.

[As-Sideeq]

Asalamu alaikum,

Brother Joneyyoung do not make fun of the sunnah of the prophet salallahu alayhi wasallam.

To see if it is sunnah look at post 6.

[Skilly]

Soon as I saw this thread I knew the same old argument would break out.

Placing the hands closer to you chest or tummy really does not matter much.
It does not invalidate your prayer, or lessens it, as far as I am aware.

So arguing over such is waste of time.

To be frank I place my hand closer to stomache. Above or on my navel.

[.: Anna :.]

forget about hanafies and salfies

think about this

the area between navel to knee is known as satar. the area for man to be concealed from any man or woman other then mate.

now when i see anyone praying with their hands below the navel it is as if they are folding their hand on .........

it is uglyThis is not correct to say, that is a valid opinion and it is confirmed to be from the sunnah (all of them are found within the sunnah, that is the point... noone makes them up and just decides "okay brothers let us do like this") so knowing it is seen in the sunnah how can u mock like that? astaghfirullah its really quite shameful :(

[brjimc]

Yes, they are are found in the Sunnah and are acceptable.

:)

I just dont like the word Namaz ..hehe

[Fais]

Where do the Hanafis put their hands?

Is it on the navel or below?

[.: Anna :.]

Where do the Hanafis put their hands?

Is it on the navel or below?was reading the book fiqh ul imam last night it said below? (for men)

[Z-Blade]

Where do the Hanafis put their hands?

Is it on the navel or below?

:salams,

We put the left thumb over the navel, with the right hand laying on top of the left, so the majority of the hand is a bit below the navel.

Wassalam.

[aboosait]

was reading the book fiqh ul imam last night it said below? (for men)

And for women? is it different? why?

..........the book fiqh ul imam ...........which imam?

[aboosait]

[QUOTE]Asalamu alaikum,

:wswrwb:

Brother Joneyyoung do not make fun of the sunnah of the prophet salallahu alayhi wasallam.

Joneyyoung has only commented on tying hands in the particular area of on's satr which in a more presentable language has been mentioned as waist in the hadith I quoted.

"He used to place them on his chest." [78]

Also "he used to forbid putting one's hand on the waist during prayer [and he put his hand on his waist (to demonstrate)]"79. And this is the "silb" which he used to forbid. [80]

Footnotes:

[78] Abu Daawood, Ibn Khuzaymah in his saheeh (1/54/2), Ahmad and Abu Shaykh in Taareekh Isbahaan (p. 125); at-Tirmidhee declared one of its isnaads hasan, and its meaning is found in Al-Muwatta' and Saheeh Al-Bukhaaree if considered carefully. I have fully quoted the isnaads of this hadeeth in my book Ahkaam al-Janaa.iz (p. 118)

NOTE: To place them on the chest is what is proved in the Sunnah, and all that is contrary to it is either da`eef or totally baseless. In fact, Imaam Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh acted on this sunnah, as Marwazee said in Masaa.il (p. 222): "Ishaaq used to pray witr with us - he would raise his hands in qunoot, and make the qunoot before bowing, and place his hands on his breast or just under his breast." Similar is the saying of Qaadhee `Iyaad al-Maaliki in Mustahabbaat as-Salaah in his book al-I`laam (p.15, 3rd edition, Rabat): "the right arm is to be placed on the back of the left, on the upper part of the chest." Close to this is what `Abdullaah ibn Ahmad ibn Hanbal related in his Masaa.il (p. 62): "I saw that when praying, my father placed his hands, one on the other, above the navel." See Appendix 4.

[79] al-Bukhaaree and Muslim. It is given in Irwaa' (374) as well as the following one.

[80] Abu Daawood, an-Nasaa.ee and others.

[aboosait]

[QUOTE]:salams,

:wswrwb:

We put the left thumb over the navel...........

As per whose directions?

Who invented this method?

[aboosait]

[QUOTE]............. so knowing it is seen in the sunnah how can u mock like that? astaghfirullah its really quite shameful .............

Here is an excerpt from one of my previous posts which perhaps you have not read:

..........To place them on the chest is what is proved in the Sunnah, and all that is contrary to it is either da`eef or totally baseless................................

[aboosait]

Who said the hands have to be on the chest :D ?

Read my post # 25 for the answer.

[QUOTE]Al Albani ? Wait its ramadaan I willl do a number on him after Ramadaan .

If it is for earning rewards, Ramdhaan is ideal. Why postpone?

...........or on your sides like the Malikis do.....................

History has recorded that the enemies had beaten him up to such an extent that he could no longer raise his hands and tie them on his chest. That is why he was not able to adhere to this Sunnah.

I am sure nothing of that sort has happened to you.

Stop Complicating the Deen

Ad-Dukhan (The Smoke)

فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ

(44:58)

44:58 THUS, THEN, [O Prophet,] have We made this [divine writ] easy to understand, in thine own [human] tongue, so that men might take it to heart. [34]

Maryam (Mary)

فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لِتُبَشِّرَ بِهِ الْمُتَّقِينَ وَتُنذِرَ بِهِ قَوْمًا لُّدًّا
(19:97)

19:97 and only to this end have We made this [divine writ] easy to understand, in thine own tongue, [O Prophet,] [81] so that thou might convey thereby a glad tiding to the God-conscious, and warn thereby those who are given to [futile] contention

[al faqeer]

[QUOTE=al faqeer;2149803]



Read my post # 25 for the answer.



If it is for earning rewards, Ramdhaan is ideal. Why postpone?



History has recorded that the enemies had beaten him up to such an extent that he could no longer raise his hands and tie them on his chest. That is why he was not able to adhere to this Sunnah.

I am sure nothing of that sort has happened to you.



Ad-Dukhan (The Smoke)

فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ

(44:58)

44:58 THUS, THEN, [O Prophet,] have We made this [divine writ] easy to understand, in thine own [human] tongue, so that men might take it to heart. [34]

Maryam (Mary)

فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لِتُبَشِّرَ بِهِ الْمُتَّقِينَ وَتُنذِرَ بِهِ قَوْمًا لُّدًّا
(19:97)

19:97 and only to this end have We made this [divine writ] easy to understand, in thine own tongue, [O Prophet,] [81] so that thou might convey thereby a glad tiding to the God-conscious, and warn thereby those who are given to [futile] contention


:) More copy and pasting from Khalafi websites ?

We are not obliged to follow the Khalafi interpretations of hadeeths , we follow the Salaf as in the Madhabs .

so easy :) .

We will put the hands on the chest , on the sides above the navel and chest not up to you khalafis to and especially a man who made 50 hadeeth of bukhari and Muslim Dhaeef to tell us what to do .

[Z-Blade]

[quote=Z-Blade;2151127]



:wswrwb:



As per whose directions?

Who invented this method?

As according to Imam Abu Hanifah's (RH) ijtihad.

Wassalam.

[aboosait]

.........As according to Imam Abu Hanifah's (RH) ijtihad.......



......We put the left thumb over the navel...........

In support of your statement kindly provide reference to the book where Imam Abu Hanifah (RH) has written about it.

[Z-Blade]

In support of your statement kindly provide reference to the book where Imam Abu Hanifah (RH) has written about it.

:salams,

Sorry I do not the book where this is mentioned, though most likely it would be said in Fiqh Al-Akbar. Scholars have said this is how to pray as according to Imam Abu Hanifah.

Wassalam.

[aboosait]

:salams,

:wswrwb:

Sorry I do not the book where this is mentioned

And I feel sorry to note that without any authority u have mentiond
in reply to my questions, 1. As per whose directions? 2. Who invented this method?

[QUOTE]As according to Imam Abu Hanifah's (RH) ijtihad.

Now you are telling me:

Scholars have said this is how to pray as according to Imam Abu Hanifah.

And they said that without authentic proof?

And would you mind telling us what makes you prefer to blindly follow what has reached you without proof rather than follow what scholars say with authentic proof from the Sunnah, which I have quoted in my post in this thread on 23-09-07 05:12 PM.

Wassalam.

[Z-Blade]

And they said that without authentic proof?

And would you mind telling us what makes you prefer to blindly follow what has reached you without proof rather than follow what scholars say with authentic proof from the Sunnah, which I have quoted in my post in this thread on 23-09-07 05:12 PM.

Wassalam.

It's an obvious fact in history that this was the opinion of Imam Abu Hanifah and no one is in disagreement with this view. The authentic proof is that there is ijma' that this is the view of Imam Abu Hanifah (RH). Khalas.

And to say the Salaf did not create their fatwas based on authentic proof is just ignorance. KHALAS.

Wassalam.

[.: Anna :.]

And for women? is it different? why?

..........the book fiqh ul imam ...........which imam?

its a hanafi book

for woman we place the hands higher up than the men do bc of modesty, its not the only thing there r a few differences in the way woman and men pray according 2 this school bc ours is in a way which is slightly more concealing

u can read here for info
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=1311&CATE=4

[aboosait]

its a hanafi book

That does not mean that Imam Abu Hanifa wrote that book himself ?
I am told that if anyone who calls himself 'hanafi' writes a book it will be called 'hanafi book'.
[QUOTE]for woman we place the hands higher up than the men do bc of modesty modesty is required of both sexes. Neither is the act of men who (in opposition to sahih ahadith) tie their hands on their satr (below the naval) modest.
bc ours is in a way which is slightly more concealing
More concealing than prescribed? Kindly clarify.
u can read here for info
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=1311&CATE=4
The site is trying to prove its point with words of 'fuqahaa' rather than authentic 'hadith' with proper chain of narrations. Moreover it contains words such as thighs, buttocks etc which are not found in Sahih Ahadith related to Salah.

[Cashew]

May I please ask for the patience of our Muslim participants to explain this to me in simple terms. I've read this thread several times and it's still unclear to me.

Where do Salafis place their hands during prayer?

Where do Malikis place their hands during prayer?

Where do Hanafis place their hands during prayer?

Where do Hanbalis place their hands during prayer?

Where do Shafi's place their hands during prayer?

[Z-Blade]

May I please ask for the patience of our Muslim participants to explain this to me in simple terms. I've read this thread several times and it's still unclear to me.

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance. :)

Where do Salafis place their hands during prayer?

Usually chest because they usually believe this is the most strongest view through their Salafi scholars or through their own interpretation.

But they can place it any where from the opinions of the 4 Madhabs (so it's 1 out of the 4 places that the other madhabs do).

Where do Malikis place their hands during prayer?

They have their hands on the side. Like how the Muslims stand after ruku with their arms to the side, this is their standing position during Qiyaam (standing and reciting Quran part of prayer).

Where do Hanafis place their hands during prayer?

Below the navel.

Where do Hanbalis place their hands during prayer?

Somewhere in between the chest and navel I believe. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

Allah knows best.

Where do Shafi's place their hands during prayer?

On the chest.

Hope that helps.

[brjimc]

According to this website, Hanafi requirements in prayer as far as hand placement is different for women than it is for men.

Sunnat Parts in the Prayer

4. To place the hands after Takbir Tahrimah under the navel or on the breast for females.(3) The prescribed way is that the palm of the right hand should be placed over the back of the left hand and the wrist of the left hand should be gripped with the thumb and little finger of the right hand and the three middle fingers spread on the wrist of the left hand, though for the females it is not necessary to grip the left wrist with the thumb and the little finger of the right hand.

http://muslim-canada.org/fiqhch13.htm

[Z-Blade]

According to this website, Hanafi requirements in prayer as far as hand placement is different for women than it is for men.

Sunnat Parts in the Prayer

4. To place the hands after Takbir Tahrimah under the navel or on the breast for females.(3) The prescribed way is that the palm of the right hand should be placed over the back of the left hand and the wrist of the left hand should be gripped with the thumb and little finger of the right hand and the three middle fingers spread on the wrist of the left hand, though for the females it is not necessary to grip the left wrist with the thumb and the little finger of the right hand.

http://muslim-canada.org/fiqhch13.htm

Yeah, that's correct for the Hanafi madhab (which I follow). I think women and men pray differently in all the madhabs. It's just in the Salafi minhaj where they do it the same or as they see it fit.

Wassalam.

[brjimc]

Thanks for all of the info bro.. learning experience on this issue for me.

[Z-Blade]

Thanks for all of the info bro.. learning experience on this issue for me.

:salams.

No problem akhi, keep learning :up:. May this knowledge be of benefit to you and help you draw closer to Allah, the Compassionate, Ameen! :)

Wassalam.

[aboosait]

Thanks for all of the info bro.. learning experience on this issue for me.

The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said:
«Beware of suspicion, for truly, suspicion is the most false of speech.»[al-Bukhaaree and Muslim.]Therefore, we cannot worship Allaah by acting according to inauthentic ahaadeeth; in fact, the Messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) forbade us from this, saying:
«Keep away from saying things about me, except what you know» [Saheeh - collected by at-Tirmidhee, Ahmad and Ibn Abee Shaybah.]; since he has forbidden us from relating weak narrations, it goes without saying that it is forbidden to act according to them.

Here is an excerpt from one of my previous posts which perhaps you have not read:
..........To place them on the chest is what is proved in the Sunnah, and all that is contrary to it is either da`eef or totally baseless................................

And I have clarified that Imam Malik was unable to tie his hands beacuse his enemies had beaten him up to such an extent that he could no longer raise his hands and tie them on his chest.

Modesty is required of both men and women. The authentic 'hadith' with proper chain of narrations is to be followed rather than words of 'fuqahaa'.

[brjimc]

The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said:
«Beware of suspicion, for truly, suspicion is the most false of speech.»[al-Bukhaaree and Muslim.]Therefore, we cannot worship Allaah by acting according to inauthentic ahaadeeth; in fact, the Messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) forbade us from this, saying:
«Keep away from saying things about me, except what you know» [Saheeh - collected by at-Tirmidhee, Ahmad and Ibn Abee Shaybah.]; since he has forbidden us from relating weak narrations, it goes without saying that it is forbidden to act according to them.

Here is an excerpt from one of my previous posts which perhaps you have not read:


And I have clarified that Imam Malik was unable to tie his hands beacuse his enemies had beaten him up to such an extent that he could no longer raise his hands and tie them on his chest.

Modesty is required of both men and women. The authentic 'hadith' with proper chain of narrations is to be followed rather than words of 'fuqahaa'.

You lost me.. what does this have to do with my statement?

[aboosait]

You lost me.. what does this have to do with my statement?

Add to your
learning experience on this issue
And as Z-Blade said,
....keep learning . May this knowledge be of benefit to you and help you draw closer to Allah, the Compassionate, Ameen! .........

[Cashew]

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance. :)



Usually chest because they usually believe this is the most strongest view through their Salafi scholars or through their own interpretation.

But they can place it any where from the opinions of the 4 Madhabs (so it's 1 out of the 4 places that the other madhabs do).



They have their hands on the side. Like how the Muslims stand after ruku with their arms to the side, this is their standing position during Qiyaam (standing and reciting Quran part of prayer).



Below the navel.



Somewhere in between the chest and navel I believe. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

Allah knows best.



On the chest.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for this information!

Does anyone know where Shias place their hands during prayer?

(If I were to show you a film of a Sunni and Shia praying side by side, would you be able to tell which was the Shia?)

[brjimc]

Add to your

And as Z-Blade said,

well thank you :)

[Z-Blade]

Thanks for this information!

Does anyone know where Shias place their hands during prayer?

(If I were to show you a film of a Sunni and Shia praying side by side, would you be able to tell which was the Shia?)

LOL, for a fact! They do their sajdah (prostration) on a piece of stone which they get from the ground of Makkah. Also, they do some weird stuff during the tashahud (sitting position of prayer) I heard.

Don't really know other aspects, but they follow the Jafari School if that helps, which isn't a valid school in true, Sunni Islam.

Hope that helps. :)

[aboosait]

............ They do their sajdah (prostration) on a piece of stone which they get from the ground of Makkah...........

I had heard during my childhood days that it is not a stone but moulded brick made out of mud from the soil of Karbala....called khak-e-shifa...meaning healing-dust.

But I did not bother to inquire later.

[Z-Blade]

I had heard during my childhood days that it is not a stone but moulded brick made out of mud from the soil of Karbala....called khak-e-shifa...meaning healing-dust.

But I did not bother to inquire later.

Yeah it could be that actually, :jkk:. Allah knows best, I forgot. I'll check it up on the internet.

Looks like it's any piece of clay:

Lower Yourself to the Floor and Put Your Forehead on a ‘Torba’ (Clay Stone) - {If You Do not Have a ‘Torba’ you may use a Paper.}
(Put Your Hands Beside Your Head, Toes on the Floor and Heels Up -{Do Not Lay your Feet Flat})

http://shiaonline.wordpress.com/category/shia-way-how-to-pray/

Wassalam.

[Black_Flag]

Wen i was in Madinah - there were some shias sendin a kid into jannat al baqi to get dirt from the ground...thought it was to make their stone thing...but allahu alim...

also they dont do the salam at the end of the prayer as in look right den left...they jst hit their lap abt 3 times or so then get up and go...sumin like tht

[Amatullah Adn]

Does it matter how people pray? Allah hears you no matter how you pray or where or when.

[salahuldin786]

sunnipath

[the_middle_road]

Where do Shafi's place their hands during prayer?
On the chest.


Actually its on the navel or thereabouts, not the chest.

[salahuldin786]

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=958&CATE=4 hanafi pray

[Z-Blade]

Actually its on the navel or thereabouts, not the chest.

Actually, it's in between the navel and the chest I just checked it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t0wlgn0GR0

And if you can correct any of the other prayer methods I mentioned, I'd be grateful. :up:

Wassalam.

[dunya_or_akhira]

i pray with my hands on my chest, i used to on my navel until i did a bit of research and felt the closest to sunnah was above navel ie on the chest

i wont talk about shias..i just ....them.... they make me :(

[aboosait]

Does it matter how people pray? Allah hears you no matter how you pray or where or when.

If it was only to make Allah hear you, I would have to go with you. Otherwise the idolators would all have starved to death.

It is the question of pleasing Allah and attaining eternal bliss....our target is the life after death....we can succeed in fulfilling our ambitions only by obeying Allah and his Prophet Muhammed Rasoolulullah Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.

He Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam has shown us how to offer Salat and we have to strictly adhere to that method and not invent our own method.

[Z-Blade]

Actually its on the navel or thereabouts, not the chest.

Looks like if Shafiis put their hands between the navel and the chest, then it's actually the Hanbalis who put their hands on their chest?! If not them, then who? Will have to verify this now!

Wassalam.

[aboosait]

Looks like if Shafiis put their hands between the navel and the chest, then it's actually the Hanbalis who put their hands on their chest?! If not them, then who? Will have to verify this now!

Wassalam.

Fear Allah and the Last Day. We will not be asked as to who put their hands where or who put their thumbs into their naval. We will Insha Allah succeed if our salat is according to the Sunnah of The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.

:wswrwb:

[salahuldin786]

so all post's posted by your salafi brother's are good and the post's we make are bad were do you get these mods from they need lesson in both side of the story. oh and the truth.

[brjimc]

so all post's posted by your salafi brother's are good and the post's we make are bad were do you get these mods from they need lesson in both side of the story. oh and the truth.

There is a group of Salafi that I respect very highly, but there is another group of Salaf Takfeeris that I deplore.

Of the group that I respect, they are very much on the deen and have a lot of good to offer us.

[Abu 'Abdullaah]

so all post's posted by your salafi brother's are good and the post's we make are bad were do you get these mods from they need lesson in both side of the story. oh and the truth.

I think the deleted posts in question were removed because they were OFF TOPIC. Do you understand what that means, OFF TOPIC? Or maybe the deep rooted hatred you have of your Muslim brothers, one of whom you consider to be a hindu (i.e. kaafir), is clouding your vision? Don't answer that.

[the_middle_road]

Fear Allah and the Last Day. We will not be asked as to who put their hands where or who put their thumbs into their naval. We will Insha Allah succeed if our salat is according to the Sunnah of The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.

:wswrwb:

You are implying here that Imams Abu Hanifah, Malik and Shafi'i were wrong in the way that they made Salah? That they did not conform to the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw)?

[Z-Blade]

Fear Allah and the Last Day. We will not be asked as to who put their hands where or who put their thumbs into their naval. We will Insha Allah succeed if our salat is according to the Sunnah of The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.

:wswrwb:

:jkk: for the reminder, though I do not know how I am going against Allah by trying to gain knowledge about the different madhabs?! :scratch:

Wassalam.

[aboosait]

You are implying here that Imams Abu Hanifah, Malik and Shafi'i were wrong in the way that they made Salah? That they did not conform to the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw)?

On the contrary I am opposed to the views propagated by people that speak of the Imams as having acted against the Sunnah. To site an example I have clarified why Imam Maliki was not able to tie his hands on his chest.

[aboosait]

:jkk: for the reminder, though I do not know how I am going against Allah by trying to gain knowledge about the different madhabs?! :scratch:

Wassalam.

The differences we observe in certain acts of the Imams have their own valid reasoning and permissibility owing to the circumstances under which they appear to have undergone slight deviation from the Sunnah just as the example of Imam Maliki's act I had highlighted in my previous post. The Sunnah remains unchanged and that has to be studied and followed.

[the_middle_road]

On the contrary I am opposed to the views propagated by people that speak of the Imams as having acted against the Sunnah. To site an example I have clarified why Imam Maliki was not able to tie his hands on his chest.

Well the Malikiyyah do not accept your version. They say that that was the way he prayed normally and it was not as a result of his being lashed. See this link: http://www.sunnah.org/msaec/articles/maliki_position_of_hands.htm

Peace.

[aboosait]

Well the Malikiyyah do not accept your version. They say that that was the way he prayed normally and it was not as a result of his being lashed. See this link: http://www.sunnah.org/msaec/articles/maliki_position_of_hands.htm

Peace.

The site at that link, in trying to validate its point regarding hands free qiyaam, propagates something strange:

In all the books of fiqh, whether it be Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali or Hanafi, reports that qabd- placing the left hand over the right, is accepted.

[HelpingHand]

Soon as I saw this thread I knew the same old argument would break out.

Placing the hands closer to you chest or tummy really does not matter much.
It does not invalidate your prayer, or lessens it, as far as I am aware.

So arguing over such is waste of time.

To be frank I place my hand closer to stomache. Above or on my navel.

Asslamo Allaikum,

Shukran Ya Akhi, May Allah (SWT) reward you for it.

Both parties:

1) Insisiting that placing hands on the Chest is the most authentic opinion
2) Insisiting that placing hands below the Navel is the most authentic opinion

Need to UNPLUG get some FRESH AIR! :hidban:

Gays/Gals! State your position with evidence and move on. If you are quoting Saykh Al-Albani (RA) "...everything besides this (hands on chest) is weak..." then you should be publicly flogged with a very long wet-noodle!:torture:

[aboosait]

[QUOTE]Asslamo Allaikum,

:wswrwb:

then you should be publicly flogged with a very long wet-noodle!

:55: due to Ramadhaan.