Why Did Allah..........

[$HugoBoss$]

Create the devil????? I've always pondered this question but never bothered asking. This maybe a really tough question to answer but one day inshallah i will confront allah and ask it myself. For now who can explain this to me using proper daleel from the sunnah and the quran?????

I know iblis didn't bow down to adam so he challenged allah and the story goes on. So allah created this world for some challenge made by a upper ranked angel turned devil. I understand why iblis didn't bow down because he felt he was superior but than if you think about it why didn't allah punish iblis????? Allah could have easily thrown him into hell and we could have all been into paradise to start off with instead of where we are at present.

If iblis was the best follower, the highest in worship how did he turn so evil in a blink of a eye, obviously this happened by allah's will but why is my question. Why couldn't we all be living happily ever after in jannah. One dude named iblis changed our entire destiny :confused:

What was so special about iblis that he had the guts to challenge allah, we are put to the ultimate test because of mr. iblis'z mistake and disobedience???? :confused:

I want to elaborate more but i think you guys got the picture, it's not easy to answer but i'm curious to know.

[Al-jafa]

Great question, which i have asked myself before but with no answer yet, i mean not a clear answer.

But on my personal point of view its first Why did ALLAH creat human, i mean Adam (as) and ask angels and jinn to bow before him

But as you said it,obviously this happened by allah's will , so certainly ALLAH know what will happen. And by this may be it was a test to iblis believe in ALLAH or his own superiority?

May be am not answering you point or being clear in my points, but its something which i suppose we must not try to find an answer.

[hkrespect]

asalamu alaikum wr

iblis was never an angel. he is a jinn, he has free will.

ws

[aboosait]

[QUOTE]So allah created this world for some challenge made by a upper ranked angel turned devil.

Any proof for this? Please produce evidence for the statement underlined by me in the quote.

[*Al-Qadr*]

Iblis was made from smokeless fire? and Rest angels from nur.

Good question HG :rubeyes:

[elji]

You can say that if Prophet Adam never ate the forbidden fruit then we would all be in heaven

But its so amazing because Allah knew that Adam would eat the forbidden fruit and you can say that Allah knows the mistakes you will make tommorrow and the day after and even if you dont make mistakes then it is only because of the will of Allah.....it gets so complicated that my head is going to blow and i cant comprehend it so i just say Allah is Great and Allah is the best of planners and Allah is All knower and please whatever happens keep me on the straight path and on the truth.

[Raziel]

Create the devil????? I've always pondered this question but never bothered asking. This maybe a really tough question to answer but one day inshallah i will confront allah and ask it myself. For now who can explain this to me using proper daleel from the sunnah and the quran?????

I know iblis didn't bow down to adam so he challenged allah and the story goes on. So allah created this world for some challenge made by a upper ranked angel turned devil. I understand why iblis didn't bow down because he felt he was superior but than if you think about it why didn't allah punish iblis????? Allah could have easily thrown him into hell and we could have all been into paradise to start off with instead of where we are at present.

If iblis was the best follower, the highest in worship how did he turn so evil in a blink of a eye, obviously this happened by allah's will but why is my question. Why couldn't we all be living happily ever after in jannah. One dude named iblis changed our entire destiny :confused:

What was so special about iblis that he had the guts to challenge allah, we are put to the ultimate test because of mr. iblis'z mistake and disobedience???? :confused:

I want to elaborate more but i think you guys got the picture, it's not easy to answer but i'm curious to know.

How can you be wondering at such a Trivial Question bro?

The Shaytan was Created to Test us, ie, who follows his way, and who follows the way of Allah Subhana Uta'ala ...

If there was No Evil, life wouldn't be a Test ...

Allah Subhana Uta'ala clearly states that this Life is a Test, and tha we are Tested with Good and Evil ...

Al-Quran, Chapter 21 : Verse 35
-------------------------------
"Every soul shall have a taste of death: and We test you by evil and by good by way of trial. to Us must ye return."

and the Purpose of Shaytans Existence is further Described when he refuses to Bow down in arrogance to Allah Subhana Uta'ala ...

He exists to whisper and attempt to mislead Mankind by his evil, to Jahannam ...

and in Opposition Allah Subhana Uta'ala sent down Revelation, to Prophets to Lead them towards Jannah!

:sub:

:jkk:

[LostInThought]

Create the devil????? I've always pondered this question but never bothered asking. This maybe a really tough question to answer but one day inshallah i will confront allah and ask it myself. For now who can explain this to me using proper daleel from the sunnah and the quran?????

I know iblis didn't bow down to adam so he challenged allah and the story goes on. So allah created this world for some challenge made by a upper ranked angel turned devil. I understand why iblis didn't bow down because he felt he was superior but than if you think about it why didn't allah punish iblis????? Allah could have easily thrown him into hell and we could have all been into paradise to start off with instead of where we are at present.

If iblis was the best follower, the highest in worship how did he turn so evil in a blink of a eye, obviously this happened by allah's will but why is my question. Why couldn't we all be living happily ever after in jannah. One dude named iblis changed our entire destiny :confused:

What was so special about iblis that he had the guts to challenge allah, we are put to the ultimate test because of mr. iblis'z mistake and disobedience???? :confused:

I want to elaborate more but i think you guys got the picture, it's not easy to answer but i'm curious to know.

what if we went a little further back to say.. why create us in the first place, i.e. angels, jinns, humans and so on. :p

i mean if we were not made, then we can't be punished, if we were not made, then we would not know what paradise is and wouldn't strive for it. ;)

it would just be nothingness...

i guess we will find out in the afterlife :)

[giordano]

what if we went a little further back to say.. why create us in the first place, i.e. angels, jinns, humans and so on.In order to test us.

Allah (Subhana Uta'ala) seems to enjoy that.

[|zdihaar]

what if we went a little further back to say.. why create us in the first place, i.e. angels, jinns, humans and so on. :p

You can find the answer in the Quran.

And I (Allah) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone). Quran 51:56

[LostInThought]

You can find the answer in the Quran.

And I (Allah) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone). Quran 51:56

In order to test us.

Allah (Subhana Uta'ala) seems to enjoy that.

i'm sure allah has an amazing reason behind wanted to create living beings then testing them and have them worship him.

[Raziel]

You can say that if Prophet Adam never ate the forbidden fruit then we would all be in heaven

But its so amazing because Allah knew that Adam would eat the forbidden fruit and you can say that Allah knows the mistakes you will make tommorrow and the day after and even if you dont make mistakes then it is only because of the will of Allah.....it gets so complicated that my head is going to blow and i cant comprehend it so i just say Allah is Great and Allah is the best of planners and Allah is All knower and please whatever happens keep me on the straight path and on the truth.

It doesn't, and the matter is pretty simple ...
because Allah only holds people responsible for what they have done/committed ...

this message is stated explicitly in the Quran,

Furthermore it would be Unjust to Hold someone responsible/punishable for something they did Not do ...

Adam (as) and Bibi Hawa (as) made a Mistake, They Repented to Allah Subhana Uta'ala and were Forgiven as mentioned in the Quran ...

also when you state the name of a Prophet (pbut) kindly put (as) or (pbuh) (peace be upon him) ... they are not like tom, **** and harry, where we take their names without respect,

the Best among Mankind were the Prophets(pbut) and Saying Salam (peace) to them is mentioned in the Quran, By Allah Subhana Uta'ala himself...

:jkk:

[aboosait]

asalamu alaikum wr

iblis was never an angel. he is a jinn, he has free will.

ws

Al-Baqara (The Cow)


وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلاَئِكَةِ اسْجُدُواْ لآدَمَ فَسَجَدُواْ إِلاَّ إِبْلِيسَ أَبَى وَاسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ (2:34)
2:34 And when We told the angels, "Prostrate yourselves before Adam!" [25] -they all prostrated themselves, save iblis, who refused and gloried in his arrogance: and thus he became one of those who deny the truth. [26]

Al-A'raf (The Heights)

وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَاكُمْ ثُمَّ صَوَّرْنَاكُمْ ثُمَّ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلآئِكَةِ اسْجُدُواْ لآدَمَ فَسَجَدُواْ إِلاَّ إِبْلِيسَ لَمْ يَكُن مِّنَ السَّاجِدِينَ (7:11)

7:11 Yea, indeed, We have created you, and then formed you; [9] and then We said unto the angels, "Prostrate yourselves before Adam!" - whereupon they [all] prostrated themselves, save iblis: he was not among those who prostrated themselves. [10]


Note 26 (Quran Ref: 2:34 )

For an explanation of the name of the Fallen Angel, see surah 7, note 10. The fact of this "rebellion", repeatedly stressed in the Qur'an, has led some of the commentators to the conclusion that he could not have been one of the angels, since these are incapable of sinning: "they do not bear themselves with false pride. .. and they do whatever they are bidden to do" ( 16:49 -50). As against this, other commentators point to the Qur'anic phrasing of God's command to the angels and of Iblis' refusal to obey, which makes it absolutely clear that at the time of that command he was indeed one of the heavenly host. Hence, we must assume that his "rebellion" has a purely symbolic significance and is, in reality, the outcome of a specific function assigned to him by God (see note 31 on 15:41 ).(Quran Ref: 2:34 )


http://www.islamicity.com/quranSearch

[aboosait]

[QUOTE]Any proof for this? Please produce evidence for the statement underlined by me in the quote.

That question I asked to get a satisfactory reply from you refuting hkrespect's statements in post#3.

Anyway I have answered that question myself in post#13.

[aboosait]

[QUOTE] Why did ALLAH creat human, i mean Adam (as) and ask angels and jinn to bow before him


Note 25 (Quran Ref: 2:34 )

To show that, by virtue of his ability to think conceptually, man is superior in this respect even to the angels.(Quran Ref: 2:34 )

http://www.islamicity.com/quranSearch

[aboosait]

[QUOTE]..............why didn't allah punish iblis????? Allah could have easily thrown him into hell..........................

The answer is in these verses:

Suad

قَالَ رَبِّ فَأَنظِرْنِي إِلَى يَوْمِ يُبْعَثُونَ

(38:79)

38:79 Said [iblis]: “Then, O my Sustainer, grant me a respite till the Day when all shall be raised from the dead!”


Suad

قَالَ فَبِعِزَّتِكَ لَأُغْوِيَنَّهُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ

(38:82)

38:82 [Whereupon iblis] said: “Then [I swear] by Thy very might: I shall most certainly beguile them all into grievous error –

[aboosait]

[QUOTE]..........If iblis was the best follower, the highest in worship how did he turn so evil in a blink of a eye......

Allah s.w.t. has not left room for any doubt. He has answered your questions before you asked. Please read the following verses:

Al-Hijr (The Rocky Tract)

قَالَ يَا إِبْلِيسُ مَا لَكَ أَلاَّ تَكُونَ مَعَ السَّاجِدِينَ (15:32)

15:32 Said He: "O iblis! What is thy reason for not being among those who have prostrated themselves?"

Al-Hijr (The Rocky Tract)

قَالَ لَمْ أَكُن لِّأَسْجُدَ لِبَشَرٍ خَلَقْتَهُ مِن صَلْصَالٍ مِّنْ حَمَإٍ مَّسْنُونٍ
(15:33)

15:33 [iblis] replied: "It is not for me to prostrate myself before mortal man whom Thou hast created out of sounding clay, out of dark slime transmuted!"
In another verse Allah says of Iblis that "he gloried in his arrogance"
Suad

إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ اسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنْ الْكَافِرِينَ
(38:74)

38:74 save iblis: he gloried in his arrogance, and [thus] became one of those who deny the truth.[57]

[LostInThought]

Al-Baqara (The Cow)


وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلاَئِكَةِ اسْجُدُواْ لآدَمَ فَسَجَدُواْ إِلاَّ إِبْلِيسَ أَبَى وَاسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ (2:34)
[B][FONT="Century Gothic"]2:34 And when We told the angels, "Prostrate yourselves before Adam!" [SIZE="1"][25] -they all prostrated themselves, save iblis, who refused and gloried in his arrogance: and thus he became one of those who deny the truth. [26]

018.050
YUSUFALI: Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam": They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!

PICKTHAL: And (remember) when We said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam, and they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He was of the jinn, so he rebelled against his Lord's command. Will ye choose him and his seed for your protecting friends instead of Me, when they are an enemy unto you? Calamitous is the exchange for evil-doers.

SHAKIR: And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam; they made obeisance but Iblis (did it not). He was of the jinn, so he transgressed the commandment of his Lord. What! would you then take him and his offspring for friends rather than Me, and they are your enemies? Evil is (this) change for the unjust.

question: how come iblis had the guts to do that?

[aisha2007]

question: how come iblis had the guts to do that?

Pride and arrogance.
Which comes with free will.

[elji]

It doesn't, and the matter is pretty simple ...
because Allah only holds people responsible for what they have done/committed ...

this message is stated explicitly in the Quran,

Furthermore it would be Unjust to Hold someone responsible/punishable for something they did Not do ...

Adam (as) and Bibi Hawa (as) made a Mistake, They Repented to Allah Subhana Uta'ala and were Forgiven as mentioned in the Quran ...

also when you state the name of a Prophet (pbut) kindly put (as) or (pbuh) (peace be upon him) ... they are not like tom, **** and harry, where we take their names without respect,

the Best among Mankind were the Prophets(pbut) and Saying Salam (peace) to them is mentioned in the Quran, By Allah Subhana Uta'ala himself...

:jkk:

you are correct.. you learn something new everyday :)

[LostInThought]

Pride and arrogance.
Which comes with free will.

no i mean, sometimes muslims forget that allah is watching them, hence they make mistakes when they are not remembering allah. however, iblis was with or near allah or able to hear allahs voice at least. so it should have been impossible for him to forget allah + there were no shataani whispers in his ear (i assume) because he became the shataan and i am assuming there was no shataan before him....

which is why i asked, how come he had the guts to do that and disobey allahs command.

[sapphire_blue]

Create the devil????? I've always pondered this question but never bothered asking. This maybe a really tough question to answer but one day inshallah i will confront allah and ask it myself.


Wrong choice of word, imo . . .

[giordano]

no i mean, sometimes muslims forget that allah is watching them, hence they make mistakes when they are not remembering allah. however, iblis was with or near allah or able to hear allahs voice at least. so it should have been impossible for him to forget allah + there were no shataani whispers in his ear (i assume) because he became the shataan and i am assuming there was no shataan before him....

which is why i asked, how come he had the guts to do that and disobey allahs command.Now, this is interesting :

Is Iblis Shaytaan, and vice-versa ? did Iblis become Shaytaan, and did Shaytaan pre-exist Iblis ? are we sure that Iblis and Shaytaan are one and the same person (OK, entity, being, whatever...)

G

[giordano]

Let us assume that someone leads a terrible life and ends up in eternal torture in afterlife.

Wouldn't it have been more mercyful if Allah (the most mercyful) simply hadn't created him at all ? wouldn't it be more mercyful for Allah to create only people who will behave virtuously and be rewarded in afterlife ?

G

[Q_K]

assalamualiakum.

as has been said before, good and evil are relative. you cannot know good, unless you know evil.

nothing Allah has created is all evil, what may appear to happen that IS evil, there is some good in it that we cannot see.

example: if i asked one of you to cut off your foot, you would look at me like i was crazy.
however, if i then said, you have the ebola virus, for which there is no cure, in your foot, and if i dont cut it off, in 2 days, you will die. will you then cut off your foot?

you would go through the pain of having to cut off the foot for the greater good of staying alive.

this is true of the devil as well. Allah created him, he disobeyed Allah, and made Adam disobey him as well. but what good came of this?

Adam repented to Allah.

the devil was created to cause us to sin, but that leads to the greater good of repenting to Allah when we have done so.

if we were not going to sin, then Allah would remove us from here, and create someone who would sin and then return to him in repentance. (I think this is a hadith, but i dont know exactly the coordinates of it)

Allah also says in the Quran, "and I have not created jinn and man except to worship me"

also,"the one who created life and death in order to try you to see who among you is best in deeds, and he is the most forgiving, most merciful."

this is the purpose of life. nice and simple. what is the point now of thinking so hard about it? you know you are here, and you know you must worship Allah. My suggestion is to stop thinking so hard about it, and accept that we must worship him to attain paradise.

ramadan mubarak

[giordano]

this is the purpose of life. nice and simple. what is the point now of thinking so hard about it? you know you are here, and you know you must worship Allah. My suggestion is to stop thinking so hard about it, and accept that we must worship him to attain paradise.

Personally, I think one should question everything and not accept any belief simply at face value.

It's a good idea to think hard.

G

[Raziel]

i'm sure Allah has an amazing reason behind wanted to create living beings then testing them and have them worship him.

Having them Worship him is the Test ...

and if there is No Test, then there is No reward or Punishment, and if no such thing exist, then there is No Good or Bad, which further leads to absolute Chaos, aka Atheism etc ...

To Reward or Punish someone, they have to have committed an Act, it is Absurd to expect someone to be held responsible for something they didn't do. Therefore naturally they have to be Tested, before Judgement can be Made.

:sub: far is Allah above the things they attribute to him.

[giordano]

To Reward or Punish someone, they have to have committed an Act, it is Absurd to expect someone to be held responsible for something they didn't do. Therefore naturally they have to be Tested, before Judgement can be Made..Why is it necessary to reward or punish people ? why is it necessary to test them ? in fact, as the OP asked, why create them at all ?

G

[LostInThought]

Having them Worship him is the Test ...

and if there is No Test, then there is No reward or Punishment, and if no such thing exist, then there is No Good or Bad, which further leads to absolute Chaos, aka Atheism etc ...

To Reward or Punish someone, they have to have committed an Act, it is Absurd to expect someone to be held responsible for something they didn't do. Therefore naturally they have to be Tested, before Judgement can be Made.

:sub: far is Allah above the things they attribute to him.

But why create beings to test them? Why not just not create beings? Or, why not just create beings and not test them by only creating good? Why create beings so they can earn reward? Why create paradise, then create beings to test if they are worthy of paradise? Why not create beings, create good, and stick them into paradise? I think that last bit has already been done though, i.e. angels.

it seems that evil does not exist in paradise, so why not create only good? why create evil?

[Abu 'Abdullaah]

Assalaamu Alaikum,Why did Allaah...This (type of) question is not permissable. To ask about Allaah's attributes, to ponder over their meanings by trying to 'imagine' them, to try to explain them or to liken them to creation are all acts of Bi'dah (innovation) and are within the circle of deviation and kufr.

We only affirm for Allaah what he affirms for Himself in the Qur'aan and what the Prophet Muhammad :saw: affirms for him in the Sunnah. We don't ask how or why.

[LostInThought]

Assalaamu Alaikum,This (type of) question is not permissable. To ask about Allaah's attributes, to ponder over their meanings by trying to 'imagine' them, to try to explain them or to liken them to creation are all acts of Bi'dah (innovation) and are within the circle of deviation and kufr.

We only affirm for Allaah what he affirms for Himself in the Qur'aan and what the Prophet Muhammad :saw: affirms for him in the Sunnah. We don't ask how or why.

why give us a brain if we can't ask those questions? why give us the ability to do things which we should not. it all comes back to, why test us?

[Abu 'Abdullaah]

Are you Muslim?

[LostInThought]

Are you Muslim?

i hope so.

[Abu 'Abdullaah]

What is that supposed to mean? Either you are or you aren't. So are you?

[LostInThought]

What is that supposed to mean? Either you are or you aren't. So are you?

fair enough. yes, i like to think of myself as a muslim.

[Abu 'Abdullaah]

OK. So then you must believe in Allaah. Right?

[LostInThought]

OK. So then you must believe in Allaah. Right?

yep. no doubt.

[Abu 'Abdullaah]

Good. Then you should also know about one of Allaah's names and attributes. He is Al-Hakeem (The All Wise).

[LostInThought]

Good. Then you should also know about one of Allaah's names and attributes. He is Al-Hakeem (The All Wise).

Yep.

[Abu 'Abdullaah]

Therefore, by asking such questions, you are attempting to (or implying) that you are capable of understanding Allaah's reasoning. We cannot even comprehend such a height of wisdom. It is beyond our capabilities.

So it is best not to stray into this area as it could cause one to deviate and result in one leaving the folds of Islaam (knowingly or otherwise). If asked such questions, we should just say ''Allaahu 'alam (Allaah knows best).

[LostInThought]

Therefore, by asking such questions, you are attempting to (or implying) that you are capable of understanding Allaah's reasoning. We cannot even comprehend such a height of wisdom. It is beyond our capabilities.

So it is best not to stray into this area as it could cause one to deviate and result in one leaving the folds of Islaam (knowingly or otherwise). If asked such questions, we should just say ''Allaahu 'alam (Allaah knows best).

jazak'allah. i was waiting for someone to say that as people seem to notice those type of questions but don't notice answers like this:

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2132383&postcount=11

[Abu 'Abdullaah]

You should have stopped there at the very least. The fact you delved further into trying to work out it for yourself only shows you disregarded your own comment. As I said, even enquiring about it is a deviation and we seek refuge in Allaah from that.

[LostInThought]

You should have stopped there at the very least. The fact you delved further into trying to work out it for yourself only shows you disregarded your own comment. As I said, even enquiring about it is a deviation and we seek refuge in Allaah from that.

that was EXACTLY what i wanted everyone to think, and it worked ;). i was simply waiting for someone to give the answer you did, without me having to say it again.

call it, reverse psychology or something like that if you must.

[Abu 'Abdullaah]

Eh?

[aboosait]

question: how come iblis had the guts to do that?

Your question has been answered before you were even born. Have you not read Allah's verses which I had quoted from the Qur'an in my previous post?

Allah s.w.t. has not left room for any doubt. He has answered your questions before you asked. Please read the following verses:

Al-Hijr (The Rocky Tract)

قَالَ يَا إِبْلِيسُ مَا لَكَ أَلاَّ تَكُونَ مَعَ السَّاجِدِينَ (15:32)

15:32 Said He: "O iblis! What is thy reason for not being among those who have prostrated themselves?"

Al-Hijr (The Rocky Tract)

قَالَ لَمْ أَكُن لِّأَسْجُدَ لِبَشَرٍ خَلَقْتَهُ مِن صَلْصَالٍ مِّنْ حَمَإٍ مَّسْنُونٍ
(15:33)

15:33 [iblis] replied: "It is not for me to prostrate myself before mortal man whom Thou hast created out of sounding clay, out of dark slime transmuted!"
In another verse Allah says of Iblis that "he gloried in his arrogance"
Suad

إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ اسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنْ الْكَافِرِينَ
(38:74)

38:74 save iblis: he gloried in his arrogance, and [thus] became one of those who deny the truth.[57] [/QUOTE]

[Maureen]

You can say that if Prophet Adam never ate the forbidden fruit then we would all be in heaven

But its so amazing because Allah knew that Adam would eat the forbidden fruit and you can say that Allah knows the mistakes you will make tommorrow and the day after and even if you dont make mistakes then it is only because of the will of Allah.....it gets so complicated that my head is going to blow and i cant comprehend it so i just say Allah is Great and Allah is the best of planners and Allah is All knower and please whatever happens keep me on the straight path and on the truth.

When you say that God knew Adam would eat the apple, I am confused by that thought. God has given humans free will, so it is my understanding that Adam had the choice to sin or not.
Also when Moses was leading the children of Israel to their promised land, they sinned en route, and God showed his anger with tempests etc., I would think that in both the cases, God was expecting them to abide by his word and therfore it is not clear that he actually knew in advance that they would sin.

[luqman-haqq]

which is why i asked, how come he(the iblis) had the guts to do that and disobey allahs command.


Simple, because Allah willed him to disobey him. It was all part Allah's divine plan. To create the Adam(a.s) and make the Angels & Iblis bow before him. Allah knew and willed for Iblis to disobey him during the prostration. Allah is the All-Knower. Thus you can say Iblis was created just to disobey him.

[LostInThought]

Your question has been answered before you were even born. Have you not read Allah's verses which I had quoted from the Qur'an in my previous post?

Allah s.w.t. has not left room for any doubt. He has answered your questions before you asked. Please read the following verses:

Al-Hijr (The Rocky Tract)

قَالَ يَا إِبْلِيسُ مَا لَكَ أَلاَّ تَكُونَ مَعَ السَّاجِدِينَ (15:32)

15:32 Said He: "O iblis! What is thy reason for not being among those who have prostrated themselves?"

Al-Hijr (The Rocky Tract)

قَالَ لَمْ أَكُن لِّأَسْجُدَ لِبَشَرٍ خَلَقْتَهُ مِن صَلْصَالٍ مِّنْ حَمَإٍ مَّسْنُونٍ
(15:33)

15:33 [iblis] replied: "It is not for me to prostrate myself before mortal man whom Thou hast created out of sounding clay, out of dark slime transmuted!"
In another verse Allah says of Iblis that "he gloried in his arrogance"
Suad

إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ اسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنْ الْكَافِرِينَ
(38:74)

38:74 save iblis: he gloried in his arrogance, and [thus] became one of those who deny the truth.[57]

i have read that but that did not say why he had the guts to:
1. answer allah back
2. disobey allah

for example, could a creature (iblis) who was once superior to the angels be stupid enough to disobey allah and answer allah back?

Simple, because Allah willed him to disobey him. It was all part Allah's divine plan. To create the Adam(a.s) and make the Angels & Iblis bow before him. Allah knew and willed for Iblis to disobey him during the prostration. Allah is the All-Knower. Thus you can say Iblis was created just to disobey him.

so why would iblis be punished if he was made to disobey allah? i don't think your description is very accurate. we need to remember that islam is perfect! no room for loop holes.

[Bubble]

Salam :)

Our mind and knowledge is only limited to what we can see around us and to what has happened (and that’s only to limited info). Our imagination is only limited to what we see on earth. When we try to understand the descriptions of paradise and hell we relate to things that are seen on earth because that is what we are capable of. The true meaning and picture of the hereafter is beyond our imagination however ways we try to imagine them by. If we can’t even understand the precise descriptions of paradise and hell which have been revealed to us in the quran, then how on earth would we understand why Allah did what he did if it was revealed to us. Even if it was revealed we still would be asking ‘but why’

We don’t truly understand why other human beings do what they because we don’t have the capability to see thoughts and minds of others or see what led them up to it, but Allah knows....why because he is superior than us, he is Al-Alim The All Knowing, Al-Samin The All Hearing, Al-Basir The One Who Sees All Things, Al- Khabir The All Knowing, Al-Hakim The Wise. (Even the meaning of these names to our understanding is limited)

So how on earth would we understand if we question what happened by Allah’s and we never will unless Allah gives some essence to it in the afterlife. (Allah Knows best)

It’s understandable that these questions cross our mind but pondering on them and having the thought of trying to comprehend beyond our capabilities is just trying to be as wise as Allah (Allah forbid). That we should avoid as he is the All Mighty Al Qawi and there is no one mightier than he.

[LostInThought]

Salam :)

Our mind and knowledge is only limited to what we can see around us and to what has happened (and that’s only to limited info). Our imagination is only limited to what we see on earth. When we try to understand the descriptions of paradise and hell we relate to things that are seen on earth because that is what we are capable of. The true meaning and picture of the hereafter is beyond our imagination however ways we try to imagine them by. If we can’t even understand the precise descriptions of paradise and hell which have been revealed to us in the quran, then how on earth would we understand why Allah did what he did if it was revealed to us. Even if it was revealed we still would be asking ‘but why’

We don’t truly understand why other human beings do what they because we don’t have the capability to see thoughts and minds of others or see what led them up to it, but Allah knows....why because he is superior than us, he is Al-Alim The All Knowing, Al-Samin The All Hearing, Al-Basir The One Who Sees All Things, Al- Khabir The All Knowing, Al-Hakim The Wise. (Even the meaning of these names to our understanding is limited)

So how on earth would we understand if we question what happened by Allah’s and we never will unless Allah gives some essence to it in the afterlife. (Allah Knows best)

It’s understandable that these questions cross our mind but pondering on them and having the thought of trying to comprehend beyond our capabilities is just trying to be as wise as Allah (Allah forbid). That we should avoid as he is the All Mighty Al Qawi and there is no one mightier than he.

finally! :D

i just find it amusing at how people actually try to answer these type of questions.

simple answer

1. these questions probably cannot be answered. YET!
2. quran contains info which we need to know to get to paradise
3. we do not need to know the questions i asked and the original poster asked to get into paradise.
4. these questions will probably be revealed in the afterlife, so concentrate on what's important, getting a good afterlife. ;)

[LostInThought]

Our mind and knowledge is only limited to what we can see around us and to what has happened (and that’s only to limited info). Our imagination is only limited to what we see on earth.

not too sure if that is correct. if that was correct, we would never see new inventions, new ideas which have never been done or thought of before.

[giordano]

finally! :D

i just find it amusing at how people actually try to answer these type of questions.;)Hi LiT

while you may find it amusing, these type of questions are there to stay : humanity has asked those questions for centuries, and is unlikely to stop asking them.

Luckily.

G

[LostInThought]

Hi LiT

while you may find it amusing, these type of questions are there to stay : humanity has asked those questions for centuries, and is unlikely to stop asking them.

Luckily.

G

very very true. but do you know another thing which is true? trying to answer these type of questions is a waste of time, let alone asking them. can you figure out why?

[Samurai]

Allah (swt) continues in favors and is way is but increase in grace and mercy. Sometimes we don't understand the reasons behind actions but it's neccessary to believe Allah (swt) way of mercy.

Had it not been that Iblees (la) being given opportunity to lead us astray would give us a chance to get closer to God and reach higher heights and become better servants through trial just as Ayub (as) became better and raised higher through Allah (swt) allowing Satan to make him suffer, then it would have been against God's path to allow him, but as it was in accordance to God's path of Mercy and favors, he allowd him and said "this upon me a straight path".

So yes we loose security but opportunity is given for Allah (swt) special mercy through this and it's a favor.

As for Iblees (la) disobeying, well there is no force in the religion, and Allah (swt) knew but their is many will perspective, the will of from view point of ordaining (Qadr) was that he would disobey "say all is from God", the will from another view point was that God wishes good for everyone he creates and it's they who change from the path of God has put them from his love "whatever good comes from you is from God and whatever evil afflicts is from yourself" , and from the view point of knowing what is in Iblees (la) heart, the trial was to shift him away from the group of Angels and dismiss him from being an Angel after attaining it due to his insincerity in worship and self-love and arrogance while increasing favors to those of humility which was the rest of the Angels (as) through Adam (as). But even then, Iblees (la) could've repented, as the dismissing was only intially to Yamal Qayama and infact, Iblees (la) the cursed could not see it as a favor that God woke him up from his insincerity and did not take as opportunity to gain a great amount of humility through repentance till yamal qayama which who knows might've raised him above the rest of Angels (as) and brought him back to where it doesn't beseem a person to act proudly therein on yamal qayama, but what does he do, continues in his arrogance, so what cure was possible after that for the wretched one?

[aboosait]

[QUOTE]i have read that but that did not say why he had the guts to:
1. answer allah back
2. disobey allah

for example, could a creature (iblis) who was once superior to the angels be stupid enough to disobey allah and answer allah back?

The verse clearly says "arrogance" was the reason --- the arrogance due to his (once) being superior to the angels. Please read the verse again.

إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ اسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنْ الْكَافِرِينَ (38:74)

38:74 save iblis: he gloried in his arrogance, and [thus] became one of those who deny the truth.[57]

[giordano]

trying to answer these type of questions is a waste of time, let alone asking them. can you figure out why?No.

And I don't consider them a waste of time.

[Raziel]

Why is it necessary to reward or punish people ?

why is it necessary to test them ? in fact, as the OP asked, why create them at all ?

G

1. Because Good and Evil exist ...

and if they don't according to you, then tom, **** and harry can commit as many sins as they want so long as the Law cannot convict them they will neva be held accountable ... Which means there would be No such thing s Justice! :smack:

the same old Absurdity of Atheism/Atheists ... :wacko:

2. Theres no such thing as a Free ticket to Paradise in Islam, if you want something, you have to strive for and earn it ...

... one of the Reasons why Humans are Tested ...

read ...

Al-Quran, Chapter 7 : Verse 147
--------------------------------
"Those who reject Our signs and the meeting in the Hereafter,- vain are their deeds: Can they expect to be rewarded except as they have wrought?"

furthermore, it is Necessary to Test mankind so that a Just Judgment can be made as to whether Allah should Reward or Punish them, based on what they have done ...

the alternative ideas are...

* Punish people before they even do anything ...

* Reward Everyone ...

* Don't Reward anyone ...

* Selectively Reward people based no Justifiable criteria ...

the above 4 alternative ideas are Unjust, and meaningless ...

Allah is Never Unjust to his creatures...

read...

AL-Quran, Chapter 10 : Verse 44
--------------------------------
"Verily Allah will not deal unjustly with man in aught: It is man that wrongs his own soul."

and...

AL-Quran, Chapter 41 : Verse 46
--------------------------------
"Whoever works righteousness benefits his own soul; whoever works evil, it is against his own soul: nor is thy Lord ever unjust to His Servants."

:sub:

[Raziel]

Therefore, by asking such questions, you are attempting to (or implying) that you are capable of understanding Allaah's reasoning. We cannot even comprehend such a height of wisdom. It is beyond our capabilities.

So it is best not to stray into this area as it could cause one to deviate and result in one leaving the folds of Islaam (knowingly or otherwise). If asked such questions, we should just say ''Allaahu 'alam (Allaah knows best).

these questions have been answered in the Quran bro ...

heres a simple reply from myself which addresses the Absurdities raised by Atheists and co ... http://www.ummah.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2148099&postcount=57

:jkk:

[panthera_onca]

bismillah
to the question of creation i have the following belief:
if a man intends to build a house and even before he begins he intends that upon its completeion he will immediately demolish it, and upon its completion he does demolish it, we can say that the man knew of what would happen to his house even before he started to build it. you can most certainly question the man about his actions, about the logic behind his plan, and you may get an answer that you may or may not undertand. in any case you have the ability to compare or judge his answer with your own logic and thinking because he like you is a human being, and though we all have personal preferances and attititudes, we share the basic laws of rational thought and use similar values and information to make decisions.
if we look at the creation of a human by Allah we can say that Allah knows what that person will do and what his ultimate destination will be, even before Allah has created that human. if a person goes to jannah Allah knew it even before the person was created and similarly if a person goes to jahanam Allah knew it even before the person was created. the question arises that if this is the case then of what use was the creation of this person whose history has already been written before his creation.
the difference between the house and the human is that we can question and understand or try to understand those things over which Allah has given us knowledge and given our minds the level and ability to do so, but we cant question the "logic/thoughts/intentions" behind Allahs actions because there is nothing like unto Him, meaning that "logic/thoughts/intentions" are factors of the HUMAN mind and we cant assume the same for Allah. so it is our inability as the CREATION to question the CREATOR.
what we can say is that this is the way Allah has made it becaues He wanted it so. and surely it is the best way even if we dont fully understand it with our limited inteligence.

[giordano]

the alternative ideas are...

* Punish people before they even do anything ...

* Reward Everyone ...

* Don't Reward anyone ...

* Selectively Reward people based no Justifiable criteria ...

the above 4 alternative ideas are Unjust, and meaningless ...

Allah is Never Unjust to his creatures...I see absolutely no need to reward or punish anyone.

The question is : why create people at all ? in particular since some will fail the test, wouldn't it be more mercuful not to create them ?

Humanity has been asking this sort of questions since day 1.

All the best

G

[C.G.Jung]

1. Because Good and Evil exist ...

They do not exist. They are subject to preference, like a neurosis.

and if they don't according to you, then tom, **** and harry can commit as many sins as they want so long as the Law cannot convict them they will neva be held accountable ... Which means there would be No such thing s Justice! :smack:

Amoung some of the earliest law systems on Earth, such as the Code of Hammaurabi was based on a form of equity. Equity is what these systems are based off, they have nothing to do with good and evil. To expand of Hammurabi's Code, if you kill someones wife/son/livestock then your wife/son/livestock will be kill. Today such literal rendering are useless and actually absurd, but equity is paid back nontheless in a different form. Sort of similar to the pagan Europeans, and the payment is multiplied depending on your wealth. Sometimes one must question today though. What do the victims really get in forms of equity when their loved on is killed.

Luckily in todays system "sin" is defunct and pure nonsense. Why two people who freely consent to pre-marital sex should get punished, I don't know.

the same old Absurdity of Atheism/Atheists ... :wacko:

Oh, you mean similar to the absurdity of wishful thinking when it comes to punishment in the questionable existence of a hereafter.

[aboosait]

[QUOTE=LostInThought;2140890]



The verse clearly says "arrogance" was the reason --- the arrogance due to his (once) being superior to the angels. Please read the verse again.

إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ اسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنْ الْكَافِرِينَ (38:74)

38:74 save iblis: he gloried in his arrogance, and [thus] became one of those who deny the truth.[57]

Even among humans egotism causes blindness, selfishness, over-confidence, and arrogance.

It inflates people into domineering monsters focused on petty personal victories. It wrecks relationships. It encourages leaders to try to keep everything under their personal control, in the erroneous belief they’re the only people sufficiently capable to handle important issues. It makes them deaf to concerns and blind to looming problems.