Someone called me a kafir today [Archive] - Ummah.com

urban_rose

08-09-07, 11:38 AM

It would have been better for you to give the men salaam first, because the women didnt say anything to you either and you gave them salaam, it was wrong for them to call you a kaafir without any due reason, but you were correct in giving salaam because:

Offering Salaam Is An Islamic Duty

It has been narrated from Hazrat Ali that the Holy Prophet said, "Commonly in Islam there are six rights of a Muslim upon a Muslim: when he meets him he should give him salaam; when he invites him (to a meal) he should accept it; when he sneezes he should bless him; when he falls ill he should visit him; when he dies he should accompany his funeral and he should prefer for him that which he prefers for himself."

However, you did say it to a non-mahram woman, and this is the opinion of the scholars for it:

There is nothing wrong with a man greeting a non-mahram woman with salaam, without shaking hands with her, if she is elderly, but he should not greet a young woman with salaams when there is no guarantee that there will be no fitnah (temptation). This is what is indicated by the comments of the scholars, may Allaah have mercy on them.

Imam Maalik was asked: Can a woman be greeted with salaam? He said: With regard to the elderly woman, I do not regard that as makrooh, but with regard to the young woman, I do not like that.

Al-Zarqaani explained the reason why Maalik did not like that, in his commentary on al-Muwatta': Because of the fear of fitnah when he hears her returning the greeting.

In al-Adaab al-Shar'iyyah (1/370) it says: Ibn Muflih mentioned that Ibn Mansoor said to Imam Ahmad: (What about) greeting women with salaam? He said: If the woman is old there is nothing wrong with it.

Concerning the permissibility of men greeting women with salaam and women greeting men: what is meant by its being permitted is when there is no fear of fitnah.

Al-Haleemi was quoted as saying: Because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was infallible and protected from fitnah. Whoever is confident that he will be safe from temptation may greet (women) with salaam, otherwise it is safer to keep silent.

And al-Muhallab is quoted as saying: It is permissible for men to greet women with salaam and for women to greet men, if there is no fear of fitnah.

And Allaah knows best.

urban_rose

08-09-07, 11:39 AM

....

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 11:40 AM

Salaam.

I was standing outside when some men where walking in front of some sisters in niqqab I had a Quran in my hand a hat on my head and salvar kameez the men just walked passed me as if I didn't exist, no salaam or anything. When the sisters walked passed me I gave them a salaam. They gave salaam back. And one of the guys turned around walked upto one of the sisters grabbed her pushed her in front of him and told her to walk. And said to me this "why you talking to my wife" am like "brother I gave salaam" and he said "your a kafir don't give salaam to women" and he walked off mumbling something like my blood is going to be halal for him next time or something what ever that means.

What kind of Muslim was he? (maybe a wahhabbi right?) was I in the wrong to give salaam to some sisters?

Am confused did I do anything wrong?

Men walking in front of women wearing niqab!? Which country are you in, Afghanistan!?:rubeyes:

Another demonstration of Islamic equality and womens rights, then? What a joke.

I feel sorry for the poor woman you spoke to, she'll probably have got a back hander off her backward, misoginyst husband when she got home for speaking to you.:mad:

al faqeer

08-09-07, 11:47 AM

I dont get it :D

Why would that Dork call you a kafir for no reason at all ?

I dont think wahabi has anything to do with it though , Takfeeri maybe .

urban_rose

08-09-07, 11:53 AM

Men walking in front of women wearing niqab!? Which country are you in, Afghanistan!?:rubeyes:

Another demonstration of Islamic equality and womens rights, then? What a joke.

I feel sorry for the poor woman you spoke to, she'll probably have got a back hander off her backward, misoginyst husband when she got home for speaking to you.:mad:

erm, he doesnt mention how many men there were, its quite possible that the women and the men are non-mahram to each other, besides the ones who were married, therefore, it makes perfect sense for them to walk gender-segregated type of thing....

another demonstration of complete ignorance cause you are just putting your own opinions as to what you think is going to happen when they get home....

`asiya

08-09-07, 11:57 AM

Salaam.

I was standing outside when some men where walking in front of some sisters in niqqab I had a Quran in my hand a hat on my head and salvar kameez the men just walked passed me as if I didn't exist, no salaam or anything. When the sisters walked passed me I gave them a salaam. They gave salaam back. And one of the guys turned around walked upto one of the sisters grabbed her pushed her in front of him and told her to walk. And said to me this "why you talking to my wife" am like "brother I gave salaam" and he said "your a kafir don't give salaam to women" and he walked off mumbling something like my blood is going to be halal for him next time or something what ever that means.

What kind of Muslim was he? (maybe a wahhabbi right?) was I in the wrong to give salaam to some sisters?

Am confused did I do anything wrong?

ajeeb :0: :lailah: wahabbi doesnt come into it at all. he was just ignorant of his duty to spread the salam,and clearly ignorant of many aspects of his deen..and his islamic obligations

its better u dont salam women, especially those who are walking with their husbands akhi insha Allah. The brothers should have replied ur salam. no need, or islamic basis for what he did or said at all.

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 11:57 AM

erm, he doesnt mention how many men there were, its quite possible that the women and the men are non-mahram to each other, besides the ones who were married, therefore, it makes perfect sense for them to walk gender-segregated type of thing....

another demonstration of complete ignorance cause you are just putting your own opinions as to what you think is going to happen when they get home....

What does it matter how many men? How is this relevant?

It's simply another demonstration of subjugation of women in Islam.

And as for the man physically intimidating his wife by grabbing and pushing her for saying hello to another man, I can well believe she would get attacked when they got home for doing so.

It's you who's displaying the complete ignorance.

abdulhakeem

08-09-07, 11:59 AM

The importance of saying salaam and returning the greeting

Question: CAN YOU TELL ME A DETAIL INFORMATION ON THE IMPORTANCE OF SAYING SALAAM AND SAYING WAALAIKUM-AS-SALAAM

Answer: Praise be to Allaah.

All people have the custom of greeting one another, and every group has its own distinctive greeting that distinguishes them from other people.

The Arabs used to greet one another with the words “An’im sabaahan” or “An’imu sabaahan” [equivalent to “Good morning”], using words derived from “al-ni’mah”, which means good living after the morning. The idea was that because the morning is the first part of the day, if a person encounters something good in the morning, the rest of the day will be good too.

When Islam came, Allaah prescribed that the manner of greeting among Muslims should be “As-salaamu alaykum,” and that this greeting should only be used among Muslims and not for other nations. The meaning of salaam (literally, peace) is harmlessness, safety and protection from evil and from faults. The name al-Salaam is a Name of Allaah, may He be exalted, so the meaning of the greeting of salaam which is required among Muslims is, “May the blessing of His Name descend upon you.” The usage of the preposition ‘ala in ‘alaykum (upon you) indicates that the greeting is inclusive.

Ibn al-Qayyim said in Badaa’i' al-Fawaa’id (144):“Allaah, the Sovereign, the Most Holy, the Peace, prescribed that the greeting among the people of Islam should be ‘al-salaamu ‘alaykum’, which is better than all the greetings of other nations which include impossible ideas or lies, such as saying, ‘May you live for a thousand years,’ or things that are not accurate, such as ‘An’im sabaahan (Good morning),’ or actions that are not right, such as prostrating in greeting. Thus the greeting of salaam is better than all of these, because it has the meaning of safety which is life, without which nothing else can be achieved. So this takes precedence over all other aims or objectives. A person has two main aims in life: to keep himself safe from evil, and to get something good. Keeping safe from evil takes precedence over getting something good…”

The Prophet (SAW)made spreading salaam a part of faith. Bukhari and Muslim narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar that a man asked the Messenger of Allaah (SAW): “What is the best thing in Islam?” He said, “Feeding others and giving the greeting of salaam to those whom you know and those whom you do not know.”

Ibn Hajar said in al-Fath (1/56): “i.e., do not single out anybody out of arrogance or to impress them, but do it to honour the symbols of Islam and to foster Islamic brotherhood.”

Ibn Rajab said in al-Fath (1/43): “The hadeeth makes the connection between feeding others and spreading salaam because this combines good actions in both word and deed, which is perfect good treatment (ihsaan). Indeed, this is the best thing that you can do in Islam after the obligatory duties.”

Al-Sanoosi said in Ikmaal al-Mu’allim (1/244): “What is meant by salaam is the greeting between people, which sows seeds of love and friendship in their hearts, as does giving food. There may be some weakness in the heart of one of them, which is dispelled when he is greeted, or there may be some hostility, which is turned to friendship by the greeting.”

Al-Qaadi said in Ikmaal al-Mu’allim (1:276): “Here the Prophet (SAW )was urging the believers to soften their hearts. The best Islamic attitude is to love one another and greet one another, and this is achieved by words and deeds. The Prophet (SAW) urged the Muslims to foster love between one another by exchanging gifts and food, and by spreading salaam, and he forbade the opposite, namely forsaking one another, turning away from one another, spying on one another, seeking out information about one another, stirring up trouble and being two faced.

Love is one of the duties of Islam and one of the pillars of the Islamic system. One should give salaams to those whom one knows and those whom one does not know, out of sincerity towards Allaah; one should not try to impress other people by giving salaams only to those whom one knows and no-one else. This also entails an attitude of humility and spreading the symbols of this ummah through the word of salaam.”

Brotherhood

Thus the Prophet (SAW) explained that this salaam spreads love and brotherhood. Muslim narrated from Abu Hurayrah (RA) that the Messenger of Allaah (SAW) said: “You will not enter Paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Shall I not tell you about something which, if you do it, you will love one another? Spread salaam amongst yourselves.”

Al-Qaadi ‘Ayaad said in al-Ikmaal (1/304): “This is urging us to spread salaam, as mentioned above, among those whom we know and those whom we do not know. Salaam is the first level of righteousness and the first quality of brotherhood, and it is the key to creating love. By spreading salaam the Muslims’ love for one another grows stronger and they demonstrate their distinctive symbols and spread a feeling of security amongst themselves. This is the meaning of Islam.”

Associated rewards

Abu Hurayrah (RA) related that a man passed by the Messenger of Allaah (SAW) whilst he was sitting with some others, and said “Salaam ‘alaykum (peace be upon you).” The Prophet (SAW) said, “[He will have] ten hasanaat (rewards).” Another man passed by and said “Salaam ‘alaykum wa rahmat-Allaah (peace be upon you and the mercy of Allaah).” The Prophet (SAW) said, “[He will have] twenty hasanaat.” Another man passed by and said “Salaam ‘alaykum wa rahmat-Allaahi wa barakaatuhu (peace be upon you and the mercy of Allaah and His blessings).” The Prophet (SAW) said, “[He will have] thirty hasanaat.” [Nasaai]

The Prophet (SAW) commanded us to return salaams, and made it a right and a duty. Abu Hurayrah (RA) said that the Prophet (SAW) said: “The Muslim has five rights over his fellow-Muslim: he should return his salaams, visit him when he is sick, attend his funeral, accept his invitation, and pray for mercy for him [say “Yarhamuk Allaah”] when he sneezes.” [Muslim & Bukhari]

Improving relations

It is clear that it is obligatory to say salaam and return salaams, because by doing so a Muslim is giving you safety and you have to give him safety in return. It is as if he is saying to you, “I am giving you safety and security,” so you have to give him the same, so that he does not get suspicious or think that the one to whom he has given salaam is betraying him or ignoring him. The Prophet (SAW) told us that if Muslims are ignoring or forsaking one another, this will be put to an end when one of them gives salaam. Al-Bukhari reported that Abu Ayyoob (RA) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (SAW) said: ‘It is not permissible for a Muslim to forsake his brother for more than three days, each of them turning away from the other if they meet. The better of them is the first one to say salaam.’”

This is a brief overview of the importance of giving and returning salaam.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=4596&ln=eng

And AbdAllah ibn Amr related that a man came to Rasul Allah and asked him, “Which Islam is the best?” He said, “To feed the hungry and to give salam to those you know and those you don’t know.” [Bukhari and Muslim]

hammerofthehuns

08-09-07, 12:00 PM

why did u give the sisters salaams and not the brothers?

urban_rose

08-09-07, 12:03 PM

Omar Mukhtar

08-09-07, 12:03 PM

And as for the man physically intimidating his wife by grabbing and pushing her for saying hello to another man, I can well believe she would get attacked when they got home for doing so.

LOL, Your an Idiot.

abdulhakeem

08-09-07, 12:03 PM

Ruling on greeting women with salaam and returning their greeting

Question: Is it permissible for me to return the salaams of a woman who is a stranger to me, i.e., a non-mahram?.

Answer: Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

Allaah has commanded us to spread the greeting of salaam, and has enjoined us to return the greeting to all Muslims. He has made the greeting of salaam one of the things that spread love among the believers.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

" When you are greeted with a greeting, greet in return with what is better than it, or (at least) return it equally. Certainly, Allaah is Ever a Careful Account Taker of all things "
[al-Nisa'4:86]

And it was narrated that Abu Hurayrah said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "You will not enter Paradise until you (truly) believe, and you will not (truly) believe until you love one another. Shall I not tell you something which, if you do it, you will love one another? Spread the greeting of salaam amongst yourselves."

Narrated by Muslim, 54.

In the answer to question no. 4596 (http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=4596&dgn=3), there is a lengthy discussion on the importance of greeting with salaam and returning the greeting.

Secondly:

The command to spread the greeting of salaam is general and applies to all the believers. It includes men greeting men and women greeting women, and a man greeting his female mahrams. All of them are enjoined to initiate the greeting of salaam, and the other is obliged to return the greeting.

But there is a special ruling that applies to a man greeting a non-mahram woman, because of the fitnah (temptation) that may result from that in some cases.

Thirdly:

There is nothing wrong with a man greeting a non-mahram woman with salaam, without shaking hands with her, if she is elderly, but he should not greet a young woman with salaams when there is no guarantee that there will be no fitnah (temptation). This is what is indicated by the comments of the scholars, may Allaah have mercy on them.

Imam Maalik was asked: Can a woman be greeted with salaam? He said: With regard to the elderly woman, I do not regard that as makrooh, but with regard to the young woman, I do not like that.

Al-Zarqaani explained the reason why Maalik did not like that, in his commentary on al-Muwatta': Because of the fear of fitnah when he hears her returning the greeting.

In al-Adaab al-Shar'iyyah (1/370) it says: Ibn Muflih mentioned that Ibn Mansoor said to Imam Ahmad: (What about) greeting women with salaam? He said: If the woman is old there is nothing wrong with it.

Saalih (the son of Imam Ahmad) said: I asked my father about greeting women with salaam. He said: With regard to old women, there is nothing wrong with it, but with regard to young women, they should not be prompted to speak by being made to return the salaam.

Al-Nawawi said in his book al-Adhkaar (p. 407):

Our companions said: Women greeting women is like men greeting to men. But when it comes to women greeting men, if the woman is the man's wife, or his concubine, or one of his mahrams, then it is like him speaking to another man; it is mustahabb for either of them to initiate the greeting of salaam and the other is obliged to return the greeting. But if the woman is a stranger (non-mahram), if she is beautiful and there is the fear that he may be tempted by her, then the man should not greet her with salaam, and if he does then it is not permissible for her to reply; she should not initiate the greeting of salaam either, and if she does, she does not deserve a response. If he responds then this is makrooh.

If she is an old woman and he will not be tempted by her, then it is permissible for her to greet the man with salaam and for the man to return her salaams.

If there is a group of women then a man may greet them with salaam, or if there is a group of men, they may greet a woman with salaam, so long as there there is no fear that any of the parties may be tempted.

Abu Dawood (5204) narrated that Asma' the daughter of Yazeed said: "The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) passed by us woman and greeted us with salaam." Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

And al-Bukhaari (6248) narrated that Sahl ibn Sa'd said: "There was an old woman of our acquaintance who would send someone to Budaa'ah (a garden of date-palms in Madeenah). She would take the roots of silq (a kind of vegetable) and put them in a cooking pot with some powdered barley. After we had prayed Jumu'ah, we would go and greet her, then she should offer (that food) to us."

Al-Haafiz said in al-Fath:

Concerning the permissibility of men greeting women with salaam and women greeting men: what is meant by its being permitted is when there is no fear of fitnah.

Al-Haleemi was quoted as saying: Because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was infallible and protected from fitnah. Whoever is confident that he will be safe from temptation may greet (women) with salaam, otherwise it is safer to keep silent.

And al-Muhallab is quoted as saying: It is permissible for men to greet women with salaam and for women to greet men, if there is no fear of fitnah.

And Allaah knows best.

See Ahkaam al-'Awrah wa'l-Nazar by Musaa'id ibn Qaasim al-Faalih.

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=39258&ln=eng

hammerofthehuns

08-09-07, 12:04 PM

a likely story

sunrise

08-09-07, 12:04 PM

What does it matter how many men? How is this relevant?

It's simply another demonstration of subjugation of women in Islam.

And as for the man physically intimidating his wife by grabbing and pushing her for saying hello to another man, I can well believe she would get attacked when they got home for doing so.

It's you who's displaying the complete ignorance.

:zzz: subhanAllah don't you get sick of hearing yourself repeat the same old nonsense over and over

subjugation? maybe the man just didn't like other men talking to his wife...it's better than flaunting her in the street or taking her to those OPPRESSING key parties :vomit:or men getting their wives to use their 'assets' and sleep with men for their own 'financial purposes' now that's subjugation

`asiya

08-09-07, 12:04 PM

What does it matter how many men? How is this relevant?

It's simply another demonstration of subjugation of women in Islam.

And as for the man physically intimidating his wife by grabbing and pushing her for saying hello to another man, I can well believe she would get attacked when they got home for doing so.

It's you who's displaying the complete ignorance.

anyway look we all agree his behaviour was unacceptable... its not islamic has no basis in islam, and was uncalled for, its severely lacking in manners to behave like that, and as for what was said, well between muslims thats just not on at all, the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam said that if a muslim calls another muslim a kaffir ( disbeliever) and it was undeserved then the one who called them that will become a disbleiver, so we beleive this is a very serious thing, and no sane muslim who fears Allah would say such a thing to his brother..

and as for the subjugation bit lol i thought u were over that after all the posts we made about polygamy etc. anyway may Allah guide u amin :up:

Abu Mu'adh

08-09-07, 12:05 PM

Dude you need to stop making up these crazy stories.

In any case I'm glad he said what he said to you, if i walked by you and you never gave me salam but then decided to give salam to my wife/sister/mother, I would switch on you as well, maybe not go as far as calling you a kaff though.

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 12:07 PM

hammerofthehuns

08-09-07, 12:13 PM

u dont reckon maybe a woman married 2 a wifebeater might have enough savvy 2 not go chatting 2 strange men in front of him?

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 12:14 PM

u dont reckon maybe a woman married 2 a wifebeater might have enough savvy 2 not go chatting 2 strange men in front of him?

Oh, so it's her fault?

hammerofthehuns

08-09-07, 12:16 PM

the best bit is the bit about him mumbling 'ur bloods gonna be halaal next time', mans done his homework!:up:

hammerofthehuns

08-09-07, 12:17 PM

Oh, so it's her fault?

yes, it always is innit.
its always the imaginary womans fault.

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 12:18 PM

the best bit is the bit about him mumbling 'ur bloods gonna be halaal next time', mans done his homework!:up:

This joker would be very choosy about which 'kafir' to challenge. Many would be right in his face, no question about that.

sunrise

08-09-07, 12:19 PM

Oh, so it's her fault?

no-one is saying it's her fault, noway should he have pushed her

but the point is...and which has been made many a time is that people's actions don't necessarily reflect the laws the 'appear' to be acting on.

Like sis urban_rose posted it's obligatory to return a person's salaam, so in fact she did nothing wrong

so he may have done wrong, but what has that got to do with the subjugation! ?

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 12:19 PM

yes, it always is innit.
its always the imaginary womans fault.

Are you Ali G?

What are you talking about, 'the imaginary womans fault'?

Nazias

08-09-07, 12:20 PM

u dont reckon maybe a woman married 2 a wifebeater might have enough savvy 2 not go chatting 2 strange men in front of him?

Such a good point! :up:

Anyway, LS what is your problem?

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 12:23 PM

so he may have done wrong, but what has that got to do with the subjugation! ?

Erm, let's see.

The women (possibly co-erced into) wearing a garment which de-humanizes them.

The women walking behind the men.

One of the men physically assaulting one of the women who is wearing the de-humanizing garment walking x paces behind, for greeting a man.

Thats what.

Abu Mu'adh

08-09-07, 12:25 PM

Such a good point! :up:

Anyway, LS what is your problem?

the problem is that imaginary make believe threads like this are created exactly for the likes of him so he can get his teeth into them and create dissension amongst the ummah.

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 12:25 PM

Such a good point! :up:

Anyway, LS what is your problem?

My main 'problem' re this story is how a woman was physically assaulted by her husband for responding to a mans greeting.

Is this sort of unnacceptable behaviour the norm to you or something?

sunrise

08-09-07, 12:26 PM

The women (possibly co-erced into) wearing a garment which de-humanizes them.
.

de-humainises them??:0:

so i'm not human anymore when i wear it:confused:

and i sopsoe so called 'flattering' mini skirts and boob tubes make u the most human you could ever be :hidban::vomit:

Nazias

08-09-07, 12:26 PM

Erm, let's see.

The women (possibly co-erced into) wearing a garment which de-humanizes them.

The women walking behind the men.

One of the men physically assaulting one of the women who is wearing the de-humanizing garment walking x paces behind, for greeting a man.

Thats what.

I wear the 'garment' not at all 'co-erced'. :smack:

I walk behind my husband coz I'm kinda slow and lazy! :D

'Physically assaulting' please exaggerate some more! :rolleyes:

My main 'problem' re this story is how a woman was physically assaulted by her husband for responding to a mans greeting.

Is this sort of unnacceptable behaviour the norm to you or something?

I see worse all the time on the road for nothing but I suppose it's ok to you as they are not Muslim! :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's the norm :smack: I wanna see someone hit me! :mujahida:

hammerofthehuns

08-09-07, 12:27 PM

Are you Ali G?

What are you talking about, 'the imaginary womans fault'?

is it a bit early for u summerville, go back 2 bed son, dole office aint open saturdays!

Abandoned-Mind

08-09-07, 12:27 PM

My main 'problem' re this story is how a woman was physically assaulted by her husband for responding to a mans greeting.

Is this sort of unnacceptable behaviour the norm to you or something?

You ain't seen physical abuse mate.

hammerofthehuns

08-09-07, 12:28 PM

This joker would be very choosy about which 'kafir' to challenge. Many would be right in his face, no question about that.

yeah, shame u werent there innit

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 12:30 PM

I wear the 'garment' not at all 'co-erced'. :smack:

Good. But some women will be coerced or froced to wear it. Judging by the mans response, it would not surprise me if she was.

I walk behind my husband coz I'm kinda slow and lazy! :D

I'd guessed that!;)

'Physically assaulting' please exaggerate some more! :rolleyes:

No, Nazias, that is not an exaggeration. Grabbing and pushing your wife is physical intimidation and assault. The majority of women would agree and would find it unnacceptable. If he's doing that in public, then worse would probably go on behind closed doors.

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 12:32 PM

You ain't seen physical abuse mate.

You haven't the faintest clue what I have and haven't seen, 'mate'.

Nazias

08-09-07, 12:33 PM

Good. But some women will be coerced or froced to wear it. Judging by the mans response, it would not surprise me if she was.

I'd guessed that!;)

No, Nazias, that is not an exaggeration. Grabbing and pushing your wife is physical intimidation and assault. The majority of women would agree and would find it unnacceptable. If he's doing that in public, then worse would probably go on behind closed doors.

You can't make such assumptions as I keep telling you, ones intention is between them and Allah(swt) and ones personal life and what happens behind closed doors is not for us to make assumptions.

Abandoned-Mind

08-09-07, 12:33 PM

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 12:34 PM

yeah, shame u werent there innit

Do you honestly think being a poor parody of Ali G, who was himself taking the mick out of people like you is impressive?

sunrise

08-09-07, 12:34 PM

Good. But some women will be coerced or froced to wear it. Judging by the mans response, it would not surprise me if she was.

I'd guessed that!;)

No, Nazias, that is not an exaggeration. Grabbing and pushing your wife is physical intimidation and assault. The majority of women would agree and would find it unnacceptable. If he's doing that in public, then worse would probably go on behind closed doors.

see posts 25, 17 and 12...all women here agreeing that was wrong!

no-one is trying to justify that, his actions were correct

however, you making this an affiliation with Islam is where the predicament comes in

and what has a Muslim women's dress got to do with him abusing her:confused:

Nazias

08-09-07, 12:35 PM

Adam, your a bit of a idiot yourself bro, why didn't you give salaam to the brothers yourself and only give it to the sisters?

I'd have KO'd if you me and my family walked past and you only give salaam to the females. Stop causing fitnah you plonker..

I find it funny these bruzzers, who impress the sisters with their 'extra piety' and 'modesty'.. lol

If you wish to give naseehah to someone, please do so with akhlaq.

Do you honestly think being a poor parody of Ali G, who was himself taking the mick out of people like you is impressive?

Let the Ali G thing go! :smack:

Abdulah

08-09-07, 12:36 PM

Why say hi to someone you don't even know?

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 12:37 PM

You can't make such assumptions as I keep telling you, ones intention is between them and Allah(swt) and ones personal life and what happens behind closed doors is not for us to make assumptions.

Nazias, my stance on this is clear-physical, psychological an emotional intimidation and violence toward women in unnacceptable. Grabbing and pushing her is part of that, and such behaviour will often escalate over time.

sunrise

08-09-07, 12:38 PM

see posts 25, 17 and 12...all women here agreeing that was wrong!

no-one is trying to justify that, his actions were correct

however, you making this an affiliation with Islam is where the predicament comes in

and what has a Muslim women's dress got to do with him abusing her:confused:

Nazias, my stance on this is clear-physical, psychological an emotional intimidation and violence toward women in unnacceptable. Grabbing and pushing her is part of that, and such behaviour will often escalate over time.

see post above

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 12:38 PM

Let the Ali G thing go! :smack:

Iz it coz I iz annoying, Naz? Ayyyyye! ;)

Nazias

08-09-07, 12:38 PM

Nazias, my stance on this is clear-physical, psychological an emotional intimidation and violence toward women in unnacceptable. Grabbing and pushing her is part of that, and such behaviour will often escalate over time.

I'll let you off this time! :up:

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 12:42 PM

see posts 25, 17 and 12...all women here agreeing that was wrong!

no-one is trying to justify that, his actions were correct

however, you making this an affiliation with Islam is where the predicament comes in

and what has a Muslim women's dress got to do with him abusing her:confused:

I don't want to turn this thread into yet another 'niqab' thread. I don't think Nazias could stand another one!

sunrise

08-09-07, 12:44 PM

I don't want to turn this thread into yet another 'niqab' thread. I don't think Nazias could stand another one!

no-one is asking you to

we are just curious as i have started maybe 5 times now...how did the women's 'dress code' get dragged into this discussion

what has her dress code got to do with what the man did?

and niqaab? who said she was wearing a niqab? not all muslim women wear it

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 12:59 PM

Nazias

08-09-07, 01:26 PM

I don't want to turn this thread into yet another 'niqab' thread. I don't think Nazias could stand another one!

LS :55:

sunrise

08-09-07, 01:27 PM

no-one is asking you to

we are just curious as i have started maybe 5 times now...how did the women's 'dress code' get dragged into this discussion

what has her dress code got to do with what the man did?

and niqaab? who said she was wearing a niqab? not all muslim women wear it

The original post mentioned the women were wearing niqab.

sorry yes your right i missed that bit

ok but as i said before her dress had nothing to do with what he did, that's why you get men who abuse women all around the world...so why was that bought up:confused:

no-one agress with what the man did, but why an affiliation has been made with islam is confusing and shouldn't have been done

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 01:54 PM

LS :55:

:rotfl:

Na'eemah

08-09-07, 02:15 PM

:rolleyes:
Some people need to calm down and stop turning everything into an argument.

Nazias

08-09-07, 02:18 PM

:rotfl:

I so don't! :D I was only joking and wanted to use the smilie coz it made me :rotfl:. Realistically, I would never swear. :up:

Iz it coz I iz annoying, Naz? Ayyyyye! ;)

You wished! :rolleyes: Nope, it's just that he's ignoring that point probably as it is ridiculous.

:rolleyes:
Some people need to calm down and stop turning everything into an argument.

Feel free to say who you mean.

Lord Summerisle

08-09-07, 02:24 PM

I so don't! :D I was only joking and wanted to use the smilie coz it made me :rotfl:. Realistically, I would never swear. :up:

I believe you. ;)

$HugoBoss$

08-09-07, 02:55 PM

Why did you give salam to the sister and not the brother, it was her husband even i would get mad but i would never call a muslim brother or sister a kafir.

Atoms2Adam

08-09-07, 03:02 PM

Adam, your a bit of a idiot yourself bro, why didn't you give salaam to the brothers yourself and only give it to the sisters?

I'd have KO'd if you me and my family walked past and you only give salaam to the females. Stop causing fitnah you plonker..

I find it funny these bruzzers, who impress the sisters with their 'extra piety' and 'modesty'.. lol

No, I didn't give salaam to them becouse I was waiting for them to give me salaam. They just walked passed me, so I kinda looked abit stupid and said the salaam to the sisters.

abdulhakeem

08-09-07, 03:06 PM

there are a few guidelines:

the smaller group gives salaam to the larger group

then also the younger ones gives salaam to the elder,

the one who enters a room gives salaam to the ppl who are already there

cant think of any other ones now...

perhaps someone can help out.

Atoms2Adam

08-09-07, 03:13 PM

Let me deal with Lord Summerisle [edit]

Firstly, dude if someone going to be an idiot then that is on that person, you can't judge a religion based on the actions of its followers you judge it based on its scriptures. Secondly you don't have to be a Muslim to be a wife beater, wife beaters come form all society and walks of life. associating that with Islam shows me your desperation of trying to ridicule Islam. In fact your arguments conclusion doesn't even follow from the arguments premises its null and void.

abdulhakeem

08-09-07, 03:13 PM

Is it bid’ah for a person who is already there to say salaam to one who has just arrived?

Question: With regards to greeting salaam. I have notice some muslim people don't greet salaam when they arrive so it prompted me to greet them salaam which is the opposite of what should be. My question is am I doing bidaa because of this (greeting salaam to the person who arrives who does not say salaam).. did I sin and second thing should I greet next time with salaam a person who just arrive with he / she didn't say salaam.

Answer: Praise be to Allaah.

The Sunnah is for one who is walking to greet one who is sitting, and for one who is riding to great one who is walking, and for the younger to greet the older, and for one who is coming in to greet the people who are in a place, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“But when you enter the houses, greet one another with a greeting from Allaah (i.e. say: As‑Salaamu ‘Alaykum — peace be on you), blessed and good”
[al-Noor 24:61]

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The one who is riding should greet the one who is walking, and the one who is walking should greet the one who is sitting, and the smaller group should greet the larger group.” Al-Bukhaari, 6234; Muslim, 2160. According to a report narrated by al-Bukhaari: “One who is passing should greet one who is sitting.”

It is well known that initiating the greeting of salaam is Sunnah and is mustahabb (encouraged), and responding is waajib (obligatory).

If the one who is coming in does not say salaam, but the one who is in the house does say it, or if the one who is walking does not say salaam but the one who is sitting does say it, there is nothing wrong with that, rather he has done something good and has fulfilled the Sunnah of salaam, and the other one is obliged to respond.

Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Note that initiating the greeting of salaam is Sunnah and mustahabb, but not obligatory. It is Sunnah on the basis of kafaayah (a communal Sunnah). If it is a group that is giving the greeting, it is sufficient for one of them to say the salaam, but if all of them say salaam, that is better… As for returning the greeting, if it is one person that is greeted, he is obliged, on an individual basis, to return the greeting, but if it is a group then responding to the greeting is a communal obligation (fard kafaayah) for them; if one of them responds, then there is no blame on the others, but if all of them fail to respond, then all of them have sinned. If they all return the greeting, this is best. This is the view of our companions and it is clear and good. End quote from al-Adhkaar, p. 356

Then he (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Chapter on etiquette and issues of greeting with salaam. It is narrated in Saheeh al-Bukhaari and Saheeh Muslim that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The one who is riding should greet the one who is walking, the one who is walking should greet the one who is sitting, and the smaller group should greet the larger group.” According to a report narrated by al-Bukhaari: “The younger should greet the older, and the one who is walking should greet the one who is sitting, and the smaller group should greet the larger group.”

Our companions and other scholars said: What is mentioned here is the Sunnah, but if they do it differently and one who is walking greets one who is riding or one who is sitting greets one who is riding or walking, that is not makrooh. This was clearly stated by Imam Abu Sa’d al-Mutawalli and others. Based on this, it is not makrooh for a large group to greet a smaller group first, or for an older person to greet a younger person first. End quote from al-Adhkaar, p. 369

Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar narrated that al-Maaziri said: If one who is walking initiates the greeting and says salaam to one who is riding, that does not mean that he is not following the command to spread the greeting of salaam, but paying attention to what is proven in the hadeeth is better. It is mustahabb to give the greeting in the manner prescribed, but not doing what is mustahabb is not necessarily makrooh, rather it is contrary to what is best. If the one who is enjoined to initiate the greeting fails to do so, and the other one initiates it, then the one who was enjoined has failed to do something mustahabb and the other one has done something that is Sunnah unless he hastened to do it, in which case he has also failed to do something that is mustahabb. End quote from Fath al-Baari, 11/17

The phrase “unless he hastened to do it, in which case he has also failed to do something that is mustahabb” means that the one who is in the house, for example, should not hasten to say salaams to one who is coming in, rather he should give him time to say the salaam, then if he does not do so, the one who is in the house should greet him with salaam.

Conclusion: If you say salaam to the one who enters upon you but does not say salaam, this is not a bid’ah or a sin, rather it is reviving the Sunnah and spreading love, so long as you do not hasten to do that, rather you should give the one who is coming in time to greet you with salaam, then if he does not do that, you should say the salaam in that case.

And Allaah knows best.

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=72231&ln=eng

Chained_Water

08-09-07, 03:15 PM

The brother just gave salaam, I'm sure he didn't have bad intention in it, because he thought the brothers would give him salaam as they walked past. Anyone who accuses the brother in this thread in a nasty way will be infracted. If you want to give advice give it nicely or hold your tongue if you're only opening your mouth to be horrible toward the brother.

Yes it may well have looked dodgy to the brother that you didn't initiate salaam with the brothers but had no qualms about initiating it with the sisters. It's not unlikely for this to raise an eyebrow, if you could start it with the sisters, why not the brothers? And there isn't really a need for you to say it to the sisters if they were just walking past, you should know that a lot of sisters do get pestered by dodgy men who often see the hijaab and start pulling out islamic greetings to start off their pestering, so do not be surprised if you even get a bad reaction from sisters themselves sometimes. I guess it depends how it's said though, usually you can tell if someone is being dodgy and just ignore them. These sisters replied so I guess they figured you were just being polite and genuine. If you're going to give salaam to sisters like that, at the very least make sure your gaze is lowered when you do it, out of respect and haya and don't be surprised if they don't respond out of their own sense of protecting themselves from any possible fitnah.

Atoms2Adam

08-09-07, 03:18 PM

Nazias

08-09-07, 03:22 PM

How stupid is this people saying I was trying to chat up his wife. I was just being a pious brother and giving salaam.

I think the dude was stressed out about something, and just perceived my action in the wrong context.

Some of what was said was stupid but best to refrain from giving the brother issues he may not have had.

I wish I could say I was 'pious' so boldly :o

Chained_Water

08-09-07, 03:24 PM

How stupid is this people saying I was trying to chat up his wife. I was just being a pious brother and giving salaam.

I think the dude was stressed out about something, and just perceived my action in the wrong context.

Yeh bro but whatever the case may be you should think about what is most sensible. Say salaam to brothers.. there is no need to say it to unrelated sisters walking past you. If you need to speak to the sister for some reason, then of course begin with initiating salaam. If she is just walking past minding her own business there is no need. If she needs help with something, you're her brother, offer help, come to her aid if she is being bothered yes. But as for salaam, you should realise that MANY sisters will not take kindly to it from random brothers.. firstly because there's no need for it and usually out of respect and haya brothers look down and carry on going their own way.. and secondly OFTEN idiots pester sisters in hijaab by starting off with "Assalaamu alaikum *pervy grin* maaaaaashaAllah *wink* " type thing.. or say salaam and then start an unnecessary conversation asking her this that and the other trying to get friendly.

A lot of sisters may ignore you, or reply under their breath and rush straight past you not even giving you a sideways glance.. and this isn't out of being rude, it's because they do not want to open the door the above kind of scenarios or dodgy people.

And you should question yourself.. you didn't start it with the brothers.. but did with the sisters.. you should focus more on being the one to initiate salaams with any brothers you meet.

Atoms2Adam

08-09-07, 03:27 PM

The brother just gave salaam, I'm sure he didn't have bad intention in it, because he thought the brothers would give him salaam as they walked past. Anyone who accuses the brother in this thread in a nasty way will be infracted. If you want to give advice give it nicely or hold your tongue if you're only opening your mouth to be horrible toward the brother.

Thanks.

Yes it may well have looked dodgy to the brother that you didn't initiate salaam with the brothers but had no qualms about initiating it with the sisters. It's not unlikely for this to raise an eyebrow, if you could start it with the sisters, why not the brothers? And there isn't really a need for you to say it to the sisters if they were just walking past, you should know that a lot of sisters do get pestered by dodgy men who often see the hijaab and start pulling out islamic greetings to start off their pestering, so do not be surprised if you even get a bad reaction from sisters themselves sometimes. I guess it depends how it's said though, usually you can tell if someone is being dodgy and just ignore them. These sisters replied so I guess they figured you were just being polite and genuine. If you're going to give salaam to sisters like that, at the very least make sure your gaze is lowered when you do it, out of respect and haya and don't be surprised if they don't respond out of their own sense of protecting themselves from any possible fitnah.

I was completely expecting them to say salaam to me. I had the Quran open I and was reading while I was waiting for my friend to turn up. And they just walked passed me like as if I wasn't even there. And I stupidly gave the salaam to the sisters. But he seemed angry as hell, it seemed like he had already hand an argument someone. Just strange guy he seemed really angry.

Chained_Water

08-09-07, 03:28 PM

Well you are right the brother shouldn't have reacted toward you like that, it's a bit mental.

Hekmaa

08-09-07, 03:32 PM

1. Islamically, they should have greeted you, the brothers, for you were sitting, and also you were in ibadah, reading Quran.

2. You dont greet women period, unless they are the same age as your grand mother, even then it is not recommended.

Inshallah next time, you follow the sunnah and you will be ok. As for the other brother going off, he went over the line for calling you kaffir and comment about your blood. But he was right about asking why you greeted his wife. He was also wrong for pushing his wife.

You have to remember bro, Muslims 90% of us, even those with long beards, and those with Niqaab are ignorant of the full teachings of Islam so it is normal to get these incidents. But you must make sure you dont do things that are not right yourself.

Atoms2Adam

08-09-07, 03:35 PM

Well you are right the brother shouldn't have reacted toward you like that, it's a bit mental.

I thought he was actually going to hit, which would have been a right mess becouse I would have then had to put my Qu'ran on the wall, and fight back. But he backed off when I started to rise my voice too a little. But I bet the sisters will give him a right reprimand for that.

Atoms2Adam

08-09-07, 03:39 PM

The funny thing was, when I walked out of the door my dad said to me you're going to get attacked by jinn and I shouldn't stand at that spot, its like covered with trees and bushes is a real allay way. Lol, but in the end nearly got attacked by a human. lol.

Saeed Al-Muslim

08-09-07, 04:11 PM

As Salaamu Alaikum,

You got what you deserved. Save being called a kaffir, but there’s always 2 sides to every story.

Ma'aSalaama

Tax-Man

08-09-07, 04:45 PM

Such muslims do my head in, wallahi I have to hold my tounge some times and fists when dealing with some brothers.

Skilly

08-09-07, 04:48 PM

How stupid is this people saying I was trying to chat up his wife. I was just being a pious brother and giving salaam.

I think the dude was stressed out about something, and just perceived my action in the wrong context.

You did nothing wrong in trying to do what the prophet commanded.

However I think the above reason "Chained Water" gave is maybe why you got that reaction.
He probably thought you was trying to chat up...although that was not your intention.
Atleast try to understand why you might seen that reaction.

I think it will be best to greet only the Male and old ladies.

salahuldin786

08-09-07, 07:33 PM

i would not give salaam to a women i dont know. thats walking on the street.

$HugoBoss$

08-09-07, 07:54 PM

i would not give salaam to a women i dont know. thats walking on the street.

I gave salam to a sister once at school when she was walking by, she gave me this dirty look and than kept walking, no clue what happened there :confused: but hey i learned my lesson :(

Abu Hurairah

08-09-07, 08:22 PM

Men walking in front of women wearing niqab!? Which country are you in, Afghanistan!?:rubeyes:
No its all over the world- not just Afghanistan as its Islamic dress code and manners.

Another demonstration of Islamic equality and womens rights, then? What a joke.
How was our sisters right infringued upon by wearing covering to please Allah (swt), herself, and her husband and in her husband walking in front of her?

The joke happens to be the half naked woman in the West who are paraded and used like rag dolls to flog tooth paste, cars, insurance, etc. yet these ugly muts are dumb enough to think whilst being used as sex-objects they have attained 'equal rights' and liberated themselves from the shackles of men. :wacko:
I feel sorry for the poor woman you spoke to, she'll probably have got a back hander off her backward, misoginyst husband when she got home for speaking to you.:mad:
Summer you presume a lot:

1. You presume she somehow needs the 'sorrow' and 'sympathy' of some nobody called Summer something on a forum.
2. That she gets physically assaulted by her husband when they got home. :rubeyes:

And as for the man physically intimidating his wife by grabbing and pushing her for saying hello to another man, I can well believe she would get attacked when they got home for doing so.
Yeah when my wife grabs me to go shopping with her or pushes me from one mall to another I better consider it physical intimidation and should report it to the police *Rolls :rolleyes: Eyes*, (though if she ever catches me not lowering my gaze and saying hello/ salaam to some other women I shall give her ijaza to knock me out insha'allah and I'll tell Mrs. Umm H :meow: not to do that to no men, khalas.)

Abu Hurairah

08-09-07, 08:29 PM

I gave salam to a sister once at school when she was walking by, she gave me this dirty look and than kept walking, no clue what happened there :confused: but hey i learned my lesson :(
Akhy that was precisely because you should not have given her salaam in the first place nor she should give you salaam as your non-mahram to one another, read through the thread as it has been explained.

Insha'allah please do no give salaam to any sisters that your are not immediately related to to avoid fitnah- she probably took offence at you giving a salaam like that, some sisters do not like this as they wish to avoid all non-necessary contact with strange men which is Islamic and also understandable though your intent may have been good.

Some sickos (I do not mean you bro) use the salaam as an opening to chat up sisters and follow it up with conversations, etc. and start all following them and do more fitnah so its best as always to not salaam any sister who is not related to you.

Insha'allah I hope that makes sense.

Lone Wolf

08-09-07, 09:12 PM

Some sickos (I do not mean you bro) use the salaam as an opening to chat up sisters

As Salaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullah Wa Barakaato Hu Sweety, what's your number :rolleyes:

Lone Wolf

08-09-07, 09:16 PM

And one of the guys turned around walked upto one of the sisters grabbed her pushed her in front of him and told her to walk.

What a charmer, his wife's lucky to have him. Sounds like he was talking to a dog and not a human being.

And said to me this "why you talking to my wife" am like "brother I gave salaam" and he said "your a kafir don't give salaam to women" and he walked off mumbling something like my blood is going to be halal for him next time or something what ever that means.

The only people I've ever heard talk like that are the Wahabi/Salafis so it's likely one of them. Never heard a non-Salafi/Wahabi addressing people like that.

`asiya

08-09-07, 09:27 PM

What a charmer, his wife's lucky to have him. Sounds like he was talking to a dog and not a human being.

The only people I've ever heard talk like that are the Wahabi/Salafis so it's likely one of them. Never heard a non-Salafi/Wahabi addressing people like that.

:zzz:

al wahaab is the name of Allah ta ala no one can be a "wahabbi"

Abu Hurairah

08-09-07, 09:28 PM

As Salaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullah Wa Barakaato Hu Sweety, what's your number :rolleyes:
Wa Alaikum wa Assalam,

Wolf why the heck are you calling me sweety for? :rubeyes:

And why do you want my number? :rubeyes:

And yes that type of thing does happen actually so don't roll your eyes- [edited out, don't ask silly questions]

*Al-Qadr*

08-09-07, 09:32 PM

^ :shock: stalker alert

some1 accused me of worse cos I was defending another Muslim while that one tried to diss em.
:crying: they made me cry too much. I don't speak to them nomore. :D

abdulhakeem

08-09-07, 09:38 PM

:zzz:

al wahaab is the name of Allah ta ala no one can be a "wahabbi"he probably meant habibi :rolleyes:

Lone Wolf

08-09-07, 09:51 PM

And yes that type of thing does happen actually so don't roll your eyes

Bro: Salam
Sis: Wsalam
Bro: here's 20p call ur wali and tell him u'll be late home
Sis: Sure thing complete stranger!

:rolleyes:

Abu Hurairah

08-09-07, 09:57 PM

Bro: Salam
Sis: Wsalam
Bro: here's 20p call ur wali and tell him u'll be late home
Sis: Sure thing complete stranger!

:rolleyes:
Wolf do you make your marriage moves like that? :rubeyes:

Have you got She-Wolf through this express super-cheapo mahr system? :rubeyes:

Lone Wolf

08-09-07, 10:02 PM

Wolf do you make your marriage moves like that? :rubeyes:

Have you got She-Wolf through this express super-cheapo mahr system? :rubeyes:

lol.

No but you made it sound like that's what goes on ;)

Abu Hurairah

08-09-07, 10:06 PM

lol.

No but you made it sound like that's what goes on ;)
Well I do not know about the Wolf's stingy dowry fast track marriage service to sisters you see in the street but the fitnah of losers that salaam then move onto pestering sisters does happen, see: Replying to salaam from brothers (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131303) (I did not initially want to post the link as I should ask Ukthy MG's permission first to illustrate the point.

Lone Wolf

08-09-07, 10:24 PM

Well I do not know about the Wolf's stingy dowry fast track marriage service to sisters you see in the street but the fitnah of losers that salaam then move onto pestering sisters does happen, see: Replying to salaam from brothers (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131303) (I did not initially want to post the link as I should ask Ukthy MG's permission first to illustrate the point.

See this is why we shouldn't let women leave home by themselves.

Forget the kaffir, there's brothers around every street corner prepping themselves to surprise some unsuspecting Muslimah with that 'Special Salam' that'll win her heart :D

Abu Hurairah

08-09-07, 10:47 PM

See this is why we shouldn't let women leave home by themselves.
You my be trying another attempt at humour (though it never is funny- no kidding) but na'am if a sister leaves the home and her mahram is able to go with her then he should insha'allah.
Forget the kaffir, there's brothers around every street corner prepping themselves to surprise some unsuspecting Muslimah with that 'Special Salam' that'll win her heart :D
No lets not forget the kuffar males- they pose a danger to the Muslimah also.

I do not know about every street corner (unless you do a lot of running to chase after sisters to salaam them) but yes there are sickos out there who lurk for an opportunity to make moves to have some quick salaam chat, etc then want to give her 20p for it all. :rubeyes:

Lone Wolf

08-09-07, 11:52 PM

No lets not forget the kuffar males- they pose a danger to the Muslimah also.

She might get chatted up? Any girl that is chatted up so easily will find a way to get chatted up even if she usually goes out with a mahram.

I do not know about every street corner (unless you do a lot of running to chase after sisters to salaam them) but yes there are sickos out there who lurk for an opportunity to make moves

You seem very confident, experience talking is it?

Musa Hilal

08-09-07, 11:57 PM

Lower your gaze, bro.

The other bro overreacted though.

Abu Hurairah

08-09-07, 11:59 PM

She might get chatted up? Any girl that is chatted up so easily will find a way to get chatted up even if she usually goes out with a mahram.
Says who?

If her brother, father, etc. are with her who will chat her up?

Only the most sick and foolish jahil who is looking for a good beating would chat up a Muslimah let alone do it straight up in front of her mahram. :rubeyes:
You seem very confident, experience talking is it?
No but I hear about what 'wolves' do when they are alone and see sisters though. :nono:

Lone Wolf

09-09-07, 12:05 AM

If her brother, father, etc. are with her who will chat her up?

Trust me, if a girl is the type who'll easily be chatted up by a stranger. Then she'll find a way.

Be it at school/college/uni, at a friends house or even safely at home in her room doing her 'homework' on the internet

No but I hear about what 'wolves' do when they are alone and see sisters though. :nono:

And what's that?

Cartman

09-09-07, 12:19 AM

lone wolf what is your point?

I take it as a muslim you agree that unrelated men and women can't talk to each other

Abu Hurairah

09-09-07, 12:25 AM

Trust me, if a girl is the type who'll easily be chatted up by a stranger. Then she'll find a way.
No I don't trust you- what are you turning the table and blaming the sister for?

The plonker's salaam her then follows it up with "How are you siztah?" with chat ups about 20p and try out their get married quick for cheap schemes so its him who is finding a way not her.

Wolf how do you go figuring which of those girls you see is 'easily chatted up by a stranger' or not so?
Be it at school/college/uni, at a friends house or even safely at home in her room doing her 'homework' on the internet
Wolf you seem to know a lot about this subject matter, I reply as you have before:

You seem very confident, experience talking is it?
:rubeyes:

And what's that?
Wolfish behaviour like howling at her, looking in her direction to get a reacation, following her around like a lost puppy, etc. thats what wolves do- they should really leave the Muslimah alone in peace rather than 'smile' showing his teeth and and growling a salaam and causing fitnah.

Lone Wolf

09-09-07, 12:37 AM

No I don't trust you- what are you turning the table and blaming the sister for?

Brothers who claim sisters need to be accompanied everywhere are the ones who are turning the tables on them.

Wolfish behaviour like howling at her, looking in her direction to get a reacation, following her around like a lost puppy, etc.

You seem to hang around some strange people :confused:

Abu Hurairah

09-09-07, 12:41 AM

Brothers who claim sisters need to be accompanied everywhere are the ones who are turning the tables on them.
No they are not- its the sickos that chase after sisters that are the problem.
You seem to hang around some strange people :confused:
I would like to think I know the ghurabaa insha'allah.

You seem to hang around with some single animals. :rubeyes:

Lone Wolf

09-09-07, 12:43 AM

No they are not- its the sickos that chase after sisters that are the problem.

I would like to think I know the ghurabaa insha'allah.

You seem to hang around with some single animals. :rubeyes:

I dont mean any offence but is English your first language?

Abu Hurairah

09-09-07, 12:46 AM

I dont mean any offence but is English your first language?
Tomacha juet whatha eygen?

Lord Summerisle

09-09-07, 05:23 PM

Abu Hurairah

09-09-07, 05:30 PM

You're the one thats obsessed with cats.
Summer what a reply! Was that meant to silence me or something? :rubeyes:

I wouldn't call it an 'obsession' as such, I have a liking of cats and kittens as in the manner our Sahabi Abu Hurairah (ra) and our Rasul (saw) liked them alhamdulillah. :meow:

Bubble

10-09-07, 09:29 AM

Salam

I think the brother was ignorant not greeting the fellow brothers and then going on greeting the fellow sister.

The husband had the right to be upset over the matter but should have taken a different aproach rather than the way he treated his wife as she did no wrong and calling the brother kaffir.

I am assuming you (the brother) have learnt from this mistake with the help from the brothers and sisters who have provided you with hadiths and opinions on greeting your fellow muslim brothers and sisters. Insha allah it won't happen again:)

Al-Farooq

10-09-07, 10:06 AM

Rather than showing concern at being called a kaffir, perhaps you should address the question of WHY you ignored the brothers and WHY you then gave "salaams" to the sisters.

If the situation was reversed, I'm quite sure you would be pretty vexed, too, as I'm sure all Muslim men would, with every justification. Although, I must admit, it does sound like they went a little "over-the-top"....perhaps they were just having a bad day. *shrugs* Let's not blow this out of proportion, akhi.:up:

Ruprecht

10-09-07, 10:09 AM

...he walked off mumbling something like my blood is going to be halal for him next time or something what ever that means...

Was this in english?
Noone actually says that do they?
Sounds like a muslim, action movie one-liner...

hammerofthehuns

10-09-07, 11:33 AM

do keep us updated on any other unsavoury incidents adam

elji

10-09-07, 01:31 PM

Salaam.

I was standing outside when some men where walking in front of some sisters in niqqab I had a Quran in my hand a hat on my head and salvar kameez the men just walked passed me as if I didn't exist, no salaam or anything. When the sisters walked passed me I gave them a salaam. They gave salaam back. And one of the guys turned around walked upto one of the sisters grabbed her pushed her in front of him and told her to walk. And said to me this "why you talking to my wife" am like "brother I gave salaam" and he said "your a kafir don't give salaam to women" and he walked off mumbling something like my blood is going to be halal for him next time or something what ever that means.

What kind of Muslim was he? (maybe a wahhabbi right?) was I in the wrong to give salaam to some sisters?

Am confused did I do anything wrong?

you said salam to a sister? Man your lucky you were in UK when you said that ..in Saudie it would be "off with your head"

Atoms2Adam

10-09-07, 02:43 PM

Hwo you supposed to lower your gaze? what if you walk into them when you're looking down?

I heard the first look at a Muslim female was permissible.

elji

10-09-07, 03:06 PM

Hwo you supposed to lower your gaze? what if you walk into them when you're looking down?

I heard the first look at a Muslim female was permissible.

Lol you have to look at women when you talk to them. 1st time 2nd time and the 3rd time. Just dont look in a pervy way. No one can say you are doing that because only Allah knows.

Lord Summerisle

10-09-07, 05:16 PM

you said salam to a sister? Man your lucky you were in UK when you said that ..in Saudie it would be "off with your head"

What a horrible, horrible way to live/waste ones life. Women wearing garments that completely obscure them for fear of being looked at the wrong way, and men who daren't look at nor speak to women.

Seriously, this sounds like a ghastly existence.

And people here think this is something to aspire to!?:eek:

elji

10-09-07, 05:17 PM

Lord Summerisle

10-09-07, 05:20 PM

you telling me? i think its sad

Seriously, man, how can anyone think living in this kind of religious fear is good?

Genuinely baffling.

Saeed Al-Muslim

10-09-07, 05:23 PM

you telling me? i think its sad
You agreeing with the resident Kuf here, are you a Muslim?

Kind regards

Debater

10-09-07, 05:25 PM

you said salam to a sister? Man your lucky you were in UK when you said that ..in Saudie it would be "off with your head"
Yeah, UK is a free place, you can even sleep with your sis or daughter, just get her drunk and get the 'consent'.

Lord Summerisle

10-09-07, 05:36 PM

Yeah, UK is a free place, you can even sleep with your sis or daughter, just get her drunk and get the 'consent'.

What on earth are you talking about?

Shall we instead live in an environment of fear and shame? Where women are so afraid of a glance that they completely cover themselves? Where men are seen as lustful devils who cannot control their urges, where women take responsibility for this by covering themselves completely? Where interaction, even innocent, between a man and a woman is seen as criminal and should be punished?

elji

10-09-07, 05:37 PM

Yeah, UK is a free place, you can even sleep with your sis or daughter, just get her drunk and get the 'consent'.

Anyone can do what they want in private. Thats between them and Allah. As long as it dosent affect anyone else.

And erm whats your point@?

elji

10-09-07, 05:38 PM

You agreeing with the resident Kuf here, are you a Muslim?

Kind regards

Well he speaks the truth. I think killing someone for saying salam to a sister is outrageous dont you think? Its not Islamic AT ALL.

If he was on the truth and you werent i would gladly side with him and vice versa.

Do you brand everyone muslim a non muslim once they disagree with you..? Man you are proud!

Saeed Al-Muslim

10-09-07, 05:40 PM

As Salaamu Alaikum,

It is a command from Allaah (swT), there is no question after that. As for the Kufaar, who cares what they think. For those who claim to be Muslim, yet find fault with the Hukm of Allaah (swT) and His Rasool (saw) serioulsy need to do some soul searching, and work to remove the deficiency in their Imaan.

Ma'aSalaama

Saeed Al-Muslim

10-09-07, 05:41 PM

Well he speaks the truth. I think killing someone for saying salam to a sister is outrageous dont you think? Its not Islamic AT ALL.

If he was on the truth and you werent i would gladly side with him and vice versa.Read what else he has to say, clearly his grievances go a lot deeper than this. In fact he will only be satisfied once we all leave our Deen and follow his Deen.

Ma’aSalaama

elji

10-09-07, 05:47 PM

Read what else he has to say, clearly his grievances go a lot deeper than this. In fact he will only be satisfied once we all leave our Deen and follow his Deen.

Ma’aSalaama

By agreeing with him on this point dosent mean i agree with all of his opinions and believes in life.

elji

10-09-07, 05:49 PM

Saeed Al-Muslim

10-09-07, 05:54 PM

What a horrible, horrible way to live/waste ones life. Women wearing garments that completely obscure them for fear of being looked at the wrong way, and men who daren't look at nor speak to women.

Seriously, this sounds like a ghastly existence.

And people here think this is something to aspire to!?:eek:

If you agree with this (the above), then you have gone astray. He has mocked and ridiculed the Hijab of the Muslimah and the Hijab of the Muslim. And you Akhi elji have claimed to agree with him in his Kufr.

Ma'aSalaama

Lord Summerisle

10-09-07, 06:00 PM

If you agree with this (the above), then you have gone astray. He has mocked and ridiculed the Hijab of the Muslimah and the Hijab of the Muslim. And you Akhi elji have claimed to agree with him in his Kufr.

Ma'aSalaama

You have completely misrepresented what I said. This happens a lot here, usually when the other person has no argument other than 'he's kufr, therefore wrong'.

I didn't mock anything. I simply cannot find anything positive in living in a climate of fear, where the mere glance of a man is percieved as so wrong that women are compelled to completely cover themselves. Men are percieved as lustful beasts who cannot control their urges and the women (wrongly) take responsibility for this by hiding themselves away.

Human interaction between men and women is so feared that it is punishable. I'm not mocking, I simply cannot comprehend why this could be seen as good.

Lord Summerisle

10-09-07, 06:34 PM

. As for the Kufaar, who cares what they think.

I think I stopped reading your drivel around about this point.

Saeed Al-Muslim

10-09-07, 06:51 PM

I think I stopped reading your drivel around about this point.
I think you read everything I said. You seem to think your opinions on Islam hold some weight, in fact they are so irrelevant I could not even begin to describe it with words.

Kind regards

بسم الله

10-09-07, 07:34 PM

Assalaamu alaykum

This comes a little late..

I do understand why the brother got mad. I also prefere that non-maharem men doesnt give a salaam to me.

Just because he did takfeer it doesnt mean that he's salafi/wahhabi - and whats the problem with salafis/wahhabis now?

Well, brother I dont consider you being a kaafir. I think that the brother got mad, because you didnt greet him when he passed by, but you did greet his wife.. it can be misunderstood easily..

Its funny how much trouble the lack of the hukm of giving salaam can cause. Is just the brother had greeted you while he passed in the first place.

but hey, we muslims, so lets behave like muslims and forgive eachother inshaAllaah=) wa alaykum assalaam wa rahmatullaah

Debater

10-09-07, 07:40 PM

Lol you have to look at women when you talk to them. 1st time 2nd time and the 3rd time. Just dont look in a pervy way. No one can say you are doing that because only Allah knows.
Many kuffar these days are on ummah in the guise of Muslims.

Debater

10-09-07, 07:42 PM

What on earth are you talking about?

Shall we instead live in an environment of fear and shame? Where women are so afraid of a glance that they completely cover themselves? Where men are seen as lustful devils who cannot control their urges, where women take responsibility for this by covering themselves completely? Where interaction, even innocent, between a man and a woman is seen as criminal and should be punished?
Do you know the meaning of 'shame' while your whole life is nothing but shame? And Muslim women in Saudia or any other Muslim countries are much safe than they are in the West, where kafir perverts are preying them all the time. Don't you read stats which say that the Europe and America are heavens for rapists?

Debater

10-09-07, 07:44 PM

Anyone can do what they want in private. Thats between them and Allah. As long as it dosent affect anyone else.

And erm whats your point@?
When you rape your drunk sis or daughter, you do affect them, or not?

Debater

10-09-07, 07:45 PM

What for saying salam to a sister its death?
Kafirs don't say salam.

Debater

10-09-07, 07:46 PM

Do you brand everyone muslim a non muslim once they disagree with you..? Man you are proud!
When you hold 'kafir views', and when kuffar stand on your side, you can't be a believer.

Lord Summerisle

10-09-07, 07:46 PM

Do you know the meaning of 'shame' while your whole life is nothing but shame? And Muslim women in Saudia or any other Muslim countries are much safe than they are in the West, where kafir perverts are preying them all the time. Don't you read stats which say that the Europe and America are heavens for rapists?

Are you going to respond to my post or simply churn out the usual crass one liners?

ruthless

10-09-07, 07:53 PM

When you hold 'kafir views', and when kuffar stand on your side, you can't be a believer.

How do these 'kafir views' come about

Debater

10-09-07, 07:55 PM

Are you going to respond to my post or simply churn out the usual crass one liners?
Deficiency of vitamin 'D' detected, mix 10 gram of detergent in a pint and do what??? :blobblue:

Abu Hurairah

10-09-07, 07:56 PM

These are some ajeeb replies from this 'Elji'. :rubeyes:

Akhy Debater said:
Yeah, UK is a free place, you can even sleep with your sis or daughter, just get her drunk and get the 'consent'.
And Elji replied with:
Anyone can do what they want in private. Thats between them and Allah. As long as it dosent affect anyone else.

And erm whats your point@?
In effect his reply means:

1. He has no problems with the notion of sleeping with his own blood sister/ daughter so long as its done in privacy hence what Islam says on these matters seems irrelevant to him.
2. That queerism and all manners of sickness is fine too to him also for 'anyone can do what they want in private' hence what Islam says on these matters seems irrelevant to him.
3. So long as evil is done by evil-doers it should be tolerated 'as long as it doen't effect anyone else' according to him thereby he goes against hisbah of enjoining the good and forbidding the evil- our deen does not matter any more?

So the halaal and haraam are only for public and not for governing our lives in private?

Debater

10-09-07, 07:57 PM

How do these 'kafir views' come about
When you make an entry like :banbear:

بسم الله

10-09-07, 07:57 PM

You have completely misrepresented what I said. This happens a lot here, usually when the other person has no argument other than 'he's kufr, therefore wrong'.

I didn't mock anything. I simply cannot find anything positive in living in a climate of fear, where the mere glance of a man is percieved as so wrong that women are compelled to completely cover themselves. Men are percieved as lustful beasts who cannot control their urges and the women (wrongly) take responsibility for this by hiding themselves away.

Human interaction between men and women is so feared that it is punishable. I'm not mocking, I simply cannot comprehend why this could be seen as good.

this is serious.. who is the judge of good and evil? who has the right to decide what is good and what is bad? Allaah does.

So when a case has been decided by Allaah then who are you or anyone else to tell muslims that our Lord is wrong? and who are these people to tell us that their point of view/beliefs have any value in a muslim's eyes?

The word muslim in arabic means "the one who has submitted (unto Allaah)" A person who has submitted to Allaah is a slave of Allaah, and being a slave of Allaah means to obey Allaah.

008.020-25
O you who believe! obey Allah and His Messenger and do not turn back from Him while you hear.
And be not like those who said, We hear, and they did not obey.
Surely the worst of beasts, in Allah's sight, are the deaf, the dumb, who do not understand.
And if Allah had known any good in them He would have made them hear, and if He makes them hear they would turn back while they withdraw.
O you who believe! answer (the call of) Allah and His Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life; and know that Allah intervenes between man and his heart, and that to Him you shall be gathered.
And fear an affliction which may not smite those of you in particular who are unjust; and know that Allah is severe in requiting (evil).

024.051
The response of the believers, when they are invited to Allah and His Messenger that he may judge between them, is only to say: We hear and we obey; and these it is that are the successful.

Rasoolullaah saws said: "None of you have Imaan before your desires are in order with that which I have brought"

004.065 But nay, by thy Lord, they will not believe (in truth) until they make thee judge of what is in dispute between them and find within themselves no dislike of that which thou decidest, and submit with full submission.

Muslims sometimes utters words of which he doesnt know the consecvenses of and these words will be the reason for us to be thrown in the fire deeper than all that which is between east and west

I know I cant spell nor do I know the english grammar, and my excuse is that I am not british nor do I live in UK, so plz have sabr with my mistakes=)

ruthless

10-09-07, 07:57 PM

Debater

10-09-07, 08:01 PM

lol i dont think elji meant it like that, i think he meant the person who does would have to answer themselves to god later or something like that
Are you elji or elji is ruthless?
Or you all are a team?

ruthless

10-09-07, 08:03 PM

Are you elji or elji is ruthless?
Or you all are a team?

Neither :D

Debater

10-09-07, 08:05 PM

Neither :D
Then some atheist ring?
Because 'atheism' is the latest fashion among kuffar on ummah.

Abu Hurairah

10-09-07, 08:06 PM

lol i dont think elji meant it like that, i think he meant the person who does would have to answer themselves to god later or something like that
It does not really matter what you think 'ruthless' - he said those words of his own accord that have a meaning a consequence to them plain to see for all, no one forced him to say words of clear battil whereby 'anyone can do what they want in private' for 'as long as it doen't effect anyone else'.
Lol you have to look at women when you talk to them. 1st time 2nd time and the 3rd time. Just dont look in a pervy way. No one can say you are doing that because only Allah knows.
Where is your dalil for this or do you make things up as you go along?

ruthless

10-09-07, 08:07 PM

Then some atheist ring?
Because 'atheism' is the latest fashion among kuffar on ummah.

Dunno what your on about mate

elji

11-09-07, 11:13 AM

elji

11-09-07, 11:16 AM

When you rape your drunk sis or daughter, you do affect them, or not?

rape is a whole different thing. I disagreee with rape because it actually does affect someone else. I dont think even non muslims agree with rape. Thats why charges are put against rapists :)

elji

11-09-07, 11:19 AM

Kafirs don't say salam.

huh?

elji

11-09-07, 11:21 AM

When you hold 'kafir views', and when kuffar stand on your side, you can't be a believer.

Im sorry.. but if the a non muslim is telling the truth and a fellow muslim is lying i would gladly stand by the non muslim. my loyalties are not to fellow muslims its to the truth and to Allah.

elji

11-09-07, 11:22 AM

Are you elji or elji is ruthless?
Or you all are a team?

Dont think too hard it dosent suit you.. it might cause you mental illness

`asiya

11-09-07, 11:25 AM

la howla wala qawalta illah billah :lailah:

elji

11-09-07, 11:30 AM

These are some ajeeb replies from this 'Elji'. :rubeyes:

Akhy Debater said:

And Elji replied with:

In effect his reply means:

1. He has no problems with the notion of sleeping with his own blood sister/ daughter so long as its done in privacy hence what Islam says on these matters seems irrelevant to him.
2. That queerism and all manners of sickness is fine too to him also for 'anyone can do what they want in private' hence what Islam says on these matters seems irrelevant to him.
3. So long as evil is done by evil-doers it should be tolerated 'as long as it doen't effect anyone else' according to him thereby he goes against hisbah of enjoining the good and forbidding the evil- our deen does not matter any more?

So the halaal and haraam are only for public and not for governing our lives in private?

1.) I do have a problem with sleeping with your own blood sister.. and brother. its absolutely wrong as is homoseexuallity. But it happens. You cant kill them for it. If they are actively getting your son to become one of them then you have a right to take any kind of action because they are affecting you and your life. But right now i dont see that happening

2.) No queerism is not fine to me read the above point. :) No i do forbid evil . Any form of evil that affects other human beings is what i forbid such as opression, forcing people to do something they dont want to..etc. Someone watching porn at night .. sleeping with his sister or carrying out a homosexual act in private is of no concern of mine.. because as ruthless pointed out.. its between them and Allah. As long as they dont affect others with it forcefully such as rape!

3) Our deen does matter.. you can state what is wrong and right but in no way in Islam does it say that you can force your opinion on others. Even if you are right!.. Our deen does matter. There are a lot of people who are looking for nice people.. Portray your deen through your actions and not through words and impress people through your kindness not this slanging attitude.

elji

11-09-07, 11:53 AM

Where is your dalil for this or do you make things up as you go along?

You telling me you look at the floor when you talk to a woman??

elji

11-09-07, 11:54 AM

Dunno what your on about mate

The puzzled debater...

Lord Summerisle

11-09-07, 06:35 PM

Debater

11-09-07, 06:39 PM

Lord Summerisle

11-09-07, 06:41 PM

So far it is you who is lying about Muslims.

Nope, he's not lying and is correct in his assertions.

Debater

11-09-07, 06:55 PM

Nope, he's not lying and is correct in his assertions.
hips don't lie, said Lord Shakira

Saeed Al-Muslim

11-09-07, 07:10 PM

Someone called me Osama Bin Laden & Paki, now I'm going to sulk about it and moan to everyone else.

Ma'aSalaama

Lord Summerisle

11-09-07, 07:13 PM

hips don't lie, said Lord Shakira

How are you getting on with the old hallucinogens?

Saeed Al-Muslim

11-09-07, 07:13 PM

Im sorry.. but if the a non muslim is telling the truth and a fellow muslim is lying i would gladly stand by the non muslim. my loyalties are not to fellow muslims its to the truth and to Allah.Oh yes, he's telling the truth. Why, lets go back and see what he had to say:

What a horrible, horrible way to live/waste ones life. Women wearing garments that completely obscure them for fear of being looked at the wrong way, and men who daren't look at nor speak to women.

Seriously, this sounds like a ghastly existence.

And people here think this is something to aspire to!?:eek:

OMG Lolz!!!

Ma'aSalaama

Veiled Salafiya

11-09-07, 07:15 PM

What kind of Muslim was he? (maybe a wahhabbi right?)

Salafis (wahabis) are not takfeeris. :)

Abu Hurairah

11-09-07, 07:25 PM

Elji all you have done is recycled the rubbish post you made earlier.
1.) I do have a problem with sleeping with your own blood sister.. and brother. its absolutely wrong as is homoseexuallity. But it happens.
Under Islam it does not 'happen'- homos and blood brother/ sister sleeping around relationships do not 'happen' nor are they accepted or tolerated whether in privacy or in public. It is irrelevant whether the sinners are your own relative or not as all are clear such matters are haraam and there is a due punishment for such sin.

You cant kill them for it.
Says who?

If they are actively getting your son to become one of them then you have a right to take any kind of action because they are affecting you and your life. But right now i dont see that happening
So according to your weird set of principles I can forbid the evil only if I am personally effected by such sinners? So only when it comes so close to my door do I act to end the sickness yet when it happens to another I am to say nothing, turn a blind eye and accept?

I only have the 'right to take any kind of action because they are affecting you and your life' yet when they are causing fitnah to others and spreading immorality in society I am not to anything at all?

Where do you get these set of beliefs from? Are you reading from the 18th Chapter Verse 2 Volume 45 of Elji's 'Laws on Pervert Prevention made Easy' or some other book?

2.) No queerism is not fine to me read the above point. :) No i do forbid evil . Any form of evil that affects other human beings is what i forbid such as opression, forcing people to do something they dont want to..etc.
You just said you 'forbid the evil that affects the human beings' yet you contradict yourself by saying:

Someone watching porn at night .. sleeping with his sister or carrying out a homosexual act in private is of no concern of mine..
So where did the forbidding of evil go? Out of the window far far away to a galaxy beyond the stars?

Did you not just say before you were against homos and those sickos that sleep with their blood brother and sisters yet here ^^^ your fine with it so long as its not your own relative then its 'no concern of mine'. :rubeyes:

because as ruthless pointed out.. its between them and Allah. As long as they dont affect others with it forcefully such as rape!
But that goes without saying for every deed is between you and Allah (swt), Allah (swt) knows all that we do whether public or private so I do not see what point you and Toothless are trying to make here? :confused:

So in your version of whatever you follow so long as there is no rape its fine to sleep with blood brothers and sisters and do homo acts plus see porn as long as its done in private? What kind of Islam is that?

3) Our deen does matter.. you can state what is wrong and right but in no way in Islam does it say that you can force your opinion on others. Even if you are right!..
Thats probably because when the haqq stands clear from the battil most ordinary Muslims see the light amongst the darkness and accept alhamdulillah rather then going with whims and desires let alone their or 'aql so no force is needed and does not even come into the picture.
Our deen does matter. There are a lot of people who are looking for nice people.. Portray your deen through your actions and not through words and impress people through your kindness not this slanging attitude.
Sorry but if you are Muslim then there is the halaal, the haraam, and the doubtful matters khalas. As our Rasul (saw) said:

"Halaal (lawful) is clear and Haraam (prohibited) is clear, between these two are doubtful matters concerning which people do not know. One who avoids them to safeguard his religion and his honour is safe."
(Sahih Muslim and Bukhari)

Our deen has been completed, if you are a Muslim then you know what is forbidden and doubtful and you stear clear of it yourself and tell others to do so also- there is no one rule for me and another for some sicko for his private life. Only those who care not for their religion or their honour delve into the doubtful and those who support evil do the haraam themselves or advocate to accept the evil because according to them 'it happens' and 'is of no concern of mine', etc. unless it actually comes to close to home for comfort when a special rule applies where 'you have a right to take any kind of action because they are affecting you and your life' so if its affecting another Muslim brother or sister or our community we do nothing at all. *Rolls :rolleyes: Eyes*

If you are not willing to either enjoin the good nor forbid the evil you should remain quiet and not get in the way of any willing to do so.

Abu Hurairah

11-09-07, 07:37 PM

You telling me you look at the floor when you talk to a woman??
I do not talk to women aside from my own mother, blood relatives, and my blood sister face to face.

If ever a need arises to have to talk to one who is not of them then I try to avoid by talking to a male or do not look at them when I speak.

What do you do?

Seen as I have answered your question- I repeat, where is your dalil for this?
Lol you have to look at women when you talk to them. 1st time 2nd time and the 3rd time. Just dont look in a pervy way. No one can say you are doing that because only Allah knows.

elji

11-09-07, 09:32 PM

Elji all you have done is recycled the rubbish post you made earlier.

Under Islam it does not 'happen'- homos and blood brother/ sister sleeping around relationships do not 'happen' nor are they accepted or tolerated whether in privacy or in public. It is irrelevant whether the sinners are your own relative or not as all are clear such matters are haraam and there is a due punishment for such sin.

Says who?

So according to your weird set of principles I can forbid the evil only if I am personally effected by such sinners? So only when it comes so close to my door do I act to end the sickness yet when it happens to another I am to say nothing, turn a blind eye and accept?

I only have the 'right to take any kind of action because they are affecting you and your life' yet when they are causing fitnah to others and spreading immorality in society I am not to anything at all?

Where do you get these set of beliefs from? Are you reading from the 18th Chapter Verse 2 Volume 45 of Elji's 'Laws on Pervert Prevention made Easy' or some other book?

You just said you 'forbid the evil that affects the human beings' yet you contradict yourself by saying:

So where did the forbidding of evil go? Out of the window far far away to a galaxy beyond the stars?

Did you not just say before you were against homos and those sickos that sleep with their blood brother and sisters yet here ^^^ your fine with it so long as its not your own relative then its 'no concern of mine'. :rubeyes:

But that goes without saying for every deed is between you and Allah (swt), Allah (swt) knows all that we do whether public or private so I do not see what point you and Toothless are trying to make here? :confused:

So in your version of whatever you follow so long as there is no rape its fine to sleep with blood brothers and sisters and do homo acts plus see porn as long as its done in private? What kind of Islam is that?

Thats probably because when the haqq stands clear from the battil most ordinary Muslims see the light amongst the darkness and accept alhamdulillah rather then going with whims and desires let alone their or 'aql so no force is needed and does not even come into the picture.

Sorry but if you are Muslim then there is the halaal, the haraam, and the doubtful matters khalas. As our Rasul (saw) said:

"Halaal (lawful) is clear and Haraam (prohibited) is clear, between these two are doubtful matters concerning which people do not know. One who avoids them to safeguard his religion and his honour is safe."
(Sahih Muslim and Bukhari)

Our deen has been completed, if you are a Muslim then you know what is forbidden and doubtful and you stear clear of it yourself and tell others to do so also- there is no one rule for me and another for some sicko for his private life. Only those who care not for their religion or their honour delve into the doubtful and those who support evil do the haraam themselves or advocate to accept the evil because according to them 'it happens' and 'is of no concern of mine', etc. unless it actually comes to close to home for comfort when a special rule applies where 'you have a right to take any kind of action because they are affecting you and your life' so if its affecting another Muslim brother or sister or our community we do nothing at all. *Rolls :rolleyes: Eyes*

If you are not willing to either enjoin the good nor forbid the evil you should remain quiet and not get in the way of any willing to do so.

Under the prophets time a lot of unlawful things still happened. The prophet was sent down as a warner and also a giver of glad tidings.. and thats it. Thats all you should do is warn people not kill them for what they did. That is not the prophetic way.. get a grip!!

What Islam did was remove oppression of any form. Oppressions is forcing any kind of act or law on someone without their consent. If you see that happening on anyone you should act and stand up for the truth. Even if he is non muslim. But if someone is willingly doing wrong to himself then all you can do is warn him as our prophet warned others. You have no right to kill him. If you cant bear what he is doing then you should just leave and pray for him.

Homosexuals.. if they force others to become homosexuals too, or if they rape another person without their consent (falls into oppression) .. i have a problem with that and i will stand for it.. if they don’t and want to live a peaceful life i will warn them and tell them its unnatural and after that man its their afterlife not mine. You and I are not here to make every guy on the planet into muslims and into perfect guys.. thats Allahs job. You can just warn them and do it nicely. Hate the act not the person. Same applies to fornicators and the like.

As far as the deen goes. You should make sure that first you and your own house is in order. Then you can go on a mission to start mass converting others.. oops i forgot you cant even do that you can only give them the message .. oh and one other thing you have to that nicely too.. not threaten them with death.

Of course i know what is forbidden and what isn’t. And as a muslim i do what is permissible and don’t do what isn’t. If someone dosent he is doing wrong on himself. Im just gonna tell him that he has done the wrong thing and leave him to it.

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but don't transgress limits; for God loves not the transgressor." "And fight them on until there is no more