View Full Version : When seeking for a marriage partner what can be asked according to the sunnah?
chackodepacko
08-07-07, 12:42 PM
Assalamu aleikum,
we are living in Germany and looking for my brother a wife.
I was just wondering why people are asking things which concern more about material things or origin than the strenghth of the believing heart.
So I just want to know how it was at the time of Muhammad (sas). I want to know what kinds of questions the parents should ask the girlīs parents and what kind of questions the girlīs parents are allowed to ask (according to the hadith) and which kinds of questions are less imprtant or haram.
I want to do these things according to the hadith, so may Allah reward you for your answers.
There is one thing what I would like to know, too. When we ask brotherīs and sheikhs, if they know someone then they say that they will look. In many cases it gets into forgetness. In past times muslims helped people to get married because of the reward (not like today). So, in normal cases, as Sheikhs and brothers know people who have daughters in an age to marry then it should function fast, or? (if people want to seek the reward from Allah swt), right?
One mor thing: we asked a sheikh who had a daughter. SHe was about 20-24 years old. My brother asked the sheikh, the sheikh asked the daughter and the daughter said she wanted to study furthermore and denied it.
Did she act according to the hadith?
Jazak allhu khair for your answer.
heaven2002
08-07-07, 02:06 PM
my dad would usually ask about a persons deen and whether they prayed salat , and had completed hajj if they could afford, and what kind of family they are from, and also whether they wud be able to support a wife (shelter/housing, food and clothing is what a husband is supposed to provide)
as for the girl who refused the proposal if she feels she is not ready then no-one can force her to marry
chackodepacko
08-07-07, 03:38 PM
my dad would usually ask about a persons deen and whether they prayed salat , and had completed hajj if they could afford, and what kind of family they are from, and also whether they wud be able to support a wife (shelter/housing, food and clothing is what a husband is supposed to provide)
as for the girl who refused the proposal if she feels she is not ready then no-one can force her to marry
Assalamu aleikum,
allhamdullilah it is good what your dad is asking.
1) allhamdullilah if someone prays salaat but in our original parents-country when you ask whether pray salaat or not they always say yes. And when you look closer then you see that they make salaat but the whole attitude towards Allah swt is kind of different.
2) "wud be able to support a wife". I hardly have seen any true muslim who had problems with it as they trusted Allah swt and Allah swt gave them Rizq in a way only believers could understand.
3) I honestly dont know how right your answer according to the sunnah is but I can say: everything in this world has nothing got to do with what we want or what we wish to do. Everything has to go to the sunnah and to what is written in the Quran. Without knowledge the chance that you go the wrong way is big because you cannot decide on the basis of quran and sunnah if someone has not the knowledge. We make always the mistake that we think that we feel that this way is ok (just by feeling it and not by having the knowledge that this is according to the sunnah/quran halal/haram). This does not only affect the big problems, but the small problems which we are not really aware of.
Jazak allahu khair.
Assalamu aleikum
I don't see a problem with the sheikh's daughter turning down a proposal so that she could continue studying. Perhaps it means that she doesn't want to be a student after marriage because as a wife, she would want to commit her full attention towards her duties as a wife and later on as a mother inshallah which she would find more difficult to do if she were studying all the time and she'd be accountable to Allah (swt) for whether she's a dutiful wife or not- in which case there could be some wisdom in her decision from an Islamic perspective too.
As for whether a man is in a position to support a wife, there is no shame in asking about such a thing. If the man is unemployed through no fault of his own then he can explain that and it can be taken into account inshallah. I know of men from Muslim families who don't work and expect their wives to work all day and take care of the children while they hang out with their lafanga mates and parents should have every right to ask about such things before marriage to make sure their own daughters aren't put in that situation. It may sound materialistic to you but actually behind such questions you can get an indication of whether such men fear Allah (swt) or not.
chackodepacko
09-07-07, 07:56 AM
I don't see a problem with the sheikh's daughter turning down a proposal so that she could continue studying. Perhaps it means that she doesn't want to be a student after marriage because as a wife, she would want to commit her full attention towards her duties as a wife and later on as a mother inshallah which she would find more difficult to do if she were studying all the time and she'd be accountable to Allah (swt) for whether she's a dutiful wife or not- in which case there could be some wisdom in her decision from an Islamic perspective too.
As for whether a man is in a position to support a wife, there is no shame in asking about such a thing. If the man is unemployed through no fault of his own then he can explain that and it can be taken into account inshallah. I know of men from Muslim families who don't work and expect their wives to work all day and take care of the children while they hang out with their lafanga mates and parents should have every right to ask about such things before marriage to make sure their own daughters aren't put in that situation. It may sound materialistic to you but actually behind such questions you can get an indication of whether such men fear Allah (swt) or not.
Assalamu aleikum
well with the sheikhs daughter I really dont care that much but I was just wondering. Concerning to the questions of those lafangaīs: well, I am talking about "true" muslims, not those ones who have a weak believe in Allah and less knowledge about islam. Of course one can ask this, but in my opinion there are some more important questions. For example people ask often if you make salaat, read quran, etc. , but I hardly heard that anyone asked how your will is to strengthen this existing believe. There are many ways to do it. We definetely have to strive for more knowledge and cannot sit down on these knowledge which we have because this is not much.
By the way: it still comes back in my mind: you talked about the study of the sheikhs daughter. Studying is not just studying. If she makes it for Allah then it would have another point of view than if she makes the study only for her. There is a different barakah. And another point is that she has to think what is better to do according to the sunnah/quran: seeking for the barakah now or delaying it.
Everything has to do for Allahīs sake: if you buy food then you can do it because you are used to do it or you can do it with a certain knowlegde that Allah swt told us to care for our family and that is why you are buying food. In these two different situation you can see where there is a bigger barakah.
Assalamu aleikum
algharib
09-07-07, 01:04 PM
Lately one of my truest and best mates told me that he if it so happens that the girl he intends plans to study in university, he'll prefer she attends open universities because she'll be by far safer studying online rather than attending a freemixing university and i support his perspective. Allah knows best...
Noor_Usman
09-07-07, 01:22 PM
Asalamalikum.
I'm afriad I can not help you with your answers but I did want to ask a question while you were on the subject... ;)
The girl that turned down the wedding because of studies...well how right is she in her decision? Because the way I see it is that once you get married you will probably stay at home or at least only work part time to allow you the time to fulfill your duties as a wife. Then Allah willing you'll have children and have to give at least the first 4-5 years of your time to them before they can attend full time education. With both children and a husband to cater for you'll have no time to study or to persue a career.
So what use is studying going to be? Unless it's for religious perposes? Because it is not up to us women to support our husbands (although we do have our duty to help if required) and there should be no excuses of 'supporting themselves in the event of a divorce' because you should not get married if you think it likely to end in divorce. You should have faith and paitence to get through any hardships put in your path.
I know a woman has certain rights with regards to education but I don't see how for the adverage woman who has had her basic education and wishes to just do further or advanced education it can really be justified.
The only course I think everyone should take are language and cooking courses :D
Lately one of my truest and best mates told me that he if it so happens that the girl he intends plans to study in university, he'll prefer she attends open universities because she'll be by far safer studying online rather than attending a freemixing university and i support his perspective. Allah knows best...
But guys study in the free mixing universities. That too is a big fitna that should not be ignored. Without the attendance of Muslim women in Islamic clothing at the university, perhaps we forget what true women are like and we don't get those mental reminders about how we should be with members of the opposite gender. Maybe I think Muslim women should attend, but only because Non-Muslim women attend (I don't mean that in all situations, but in this one I think it is relevant). However, I agree, that Allahu Alim, Allah knows best.
With regards to the actual thread---
Some sections from http://www.jannah.org/sisters/qamarr.html
are really relevant. Here are some excerpts:
Can a girl/boy choose her/his own partner?
Traditionally girls were the passive partners in such matches.
The possibility of meeting, becoming acquainted with or
familiarising oneself with the male partner-to-be was not widely
available. It was left to families, who know one another in
static immovable communities, to arrange such a proposal.
Al-Islam has given each party the right to see the family
setting. If they like one another, the match may go further and
marriage preparation proceed.
One of the companions of the Prophet(SAW) told him one day that
he proposed to a girl. The Prophet(SAW) said, "Have you seen
her?" He said, "No".He said to him, "See her. For this would
bless your marriage with success". The same is true as far as
the girl is concerned. The messenger of Allah has given the
girl the right to express her views on the proposed person. He
said, "The permission of the virgin is to be sought. And if she
does not object, her silence is her permission." As for the
divorced or one who is widowed, no one has a say with her.
"If a person with satisfying
religious attitude comes to seek your daughter in marriage,
accept that. If you do not, there will be great mischief on
earth and a great trouble." At the same time young people who
are blessed with education have to show patience, understanding
and should argue their case in a rational and respectable
manner.
"A woman maybe be sought in marriage either for her
beauty, nobility, wealth or religious inclination. Seek the last
and you will be the more successful."
However, the hadith does not exclude beauty. It is one of the
qualities satisfying and protecting the hungry gaze. If that is
required in the young woman, it is required in the man too.
Al-Qurtubi reported the Prophet(SAW) as saying, "Do not give
your daughters to the ugly or nasty looking. For they desire of
men what men desire of women."
The wife of Thabit ibn Qays said to the messenger of Allah, "My
face and his face will never look at one another" He asked her,
"Why?" She said, "I looked at him coming in the company of other
of his friends and he was the shortest and the ugliest." The
messenger asked her, "Will you return to him the dower he has
given you?" She replied, "Even if he asks more, I shall give it
to him." The Prophet(SAW) told the husband, "Take what you have
given her and release her." He did.
I know a woman has certain rights with regards to education but I don't see how for the adverage woman who has had her basic education and wishes to just do further or advanced education it can really be justified.
The only course I think everyone should take are language and cooking courses :D
This line of thinking is SOOOO wrong where do I begin?:rubeyes: Let's just say for arguments sake, you go to live in a Muslim country where education is handled in this manner... Where will you go if you become sick or pregnant? To a male doctor perhaps- after all, how can it "really be justified" for women to become doctors:rolleyes:.
Aside from that, the Ummul Mumineen ranged from the likes of Khadija (ra) who was a successful businesswoman and Aisha (ra) who was a scholar! Education not justified mari tui!
Noor_Usman
09-07-07, 08:51 PM
Salams.
Okay granted we need doctors etc but I guess I wasn't really thinking of those kinds of professionals. My bad for not stating that.
I was thinking more along the lines of the jobs that women don't have to do or when they are just studying random courses for the sake of it. How about female accountants for instance? You don't really need them. Things where men do a perfectly good job and there is no Islamic reason for a woman to do it (unlike professions such as doctors and teachers).
I guess I'm speaking from experience as I know a girl doing an accountancy degree at uni but her mum is trying to marry her off in her final year and has used the uni course purely as matter of gaining status and a fall back for her daughter should she end up divorced and have to support herself. These are the words she actually used and in my eyes it's totally the wrong motives. They are not a rich family and so the father is working hard to pay the course fees. Personally I just don't feel that this is right. What if the new husband demands she leave uni to complete her duties at home while she still hasn't finished that final year?? And if he wants children straight away then in 4-5years time her degree wont be worth much because she wont have had any work experience...?
I wont deny there have been great business women in the past... and I wont say that NO women in this day and age should study....but I hold by the fact that many of the girls I have seen go to college don't really use the experience or quailifications.
Sorry, just my opinion.
[edit] There should have been a commer in there:
"I know a woman has certain rights with regards to education but I don't see how for the adverage woman, who has had her basic education and wishes to just do further or advanced education (for the sake of it) it can really be justified.
chackodepacko
10-07-07, 04:40 PM
Salams.
I guess I'm speaking from experience as I know a girl doing an accountancy degree at uni but her mum is trying to marry her off in her final year and has used the uni course purely as matter of gaining status and a fall back for her daughter should she end up divorced and have to support herself. These are the words she actually used and in my eyes it's totally the wrong motives.
Nowadays there are really many divorces, but you can say to her:
just look at those people who get divorced. If she has a strong and good faith and her future husband,too, then there should be no such fear! Honestly,nowadys people are fearing this and that, believing that every small problem is a burden...just trust Allah. just T R U S T Allah...and make istikharar before you male any decisions.
Bint_Khalid
10-07-07, 05:21 PM
:jkk: some good points..but I have a question regarding this hadith
"A woman maybe be sought in marriage either for her
beauty, nobility, wealth or religious inclination. Seek the last
and you will be the more successful."
IF a person is seeking for the religious qualities in a partner, but they cannot find somone who possess religious inclination (ie they don't establish regular prayers) however their attitude and behaviour is acceptable to them?
What should a person do in this situation..should they continue to seek someone who has religious qualities or should they accept these qualities?
But guys study in the free mixing universities. That too is a big fitna that should not be ignored. Without the attendance of Muslim women in Islamic clothing at the university, perhaps we forget what true women are like and we don't get those mental reminders about how we should be with members of the opposite gender. Maybe I think Muslim women should attend, but only because Non-Muslim women attend (I don't mean that in all situations, but in this one I think it is relevant). However, I agree, that Allahu Alim, Allah knows best.
With regards to the actual thread---
Some sections from http://www.jannah.org/sisters/qamarr.html
are really relevant. Here are some excerpts:
Can a girl/boy choose her/his own partner?
Traditionally girls were the passive partners in such matches.
The possibility of meeting, becoming acquainted with or
familiarising oneself with the male partner-to-be was not widely
available. It was left to families, who know one another in
static immovable communities, to arrange such a proposal.
Al-Islam has given each party the right to see the family
setting. If they like one another, the match may go further and
marriage preparation proceed.
One of the companions of the Prophet(SAW) told him one day that
he proposed to a girl. The Prophet(SAW) said, "Have you seen
her?" He said, "No".He said to him, "See her. For this would
bless your marriage with success". The same is true as far as
the girl is concerned. The messenger of Allah has given the
girl the right to express her views on the proposed person. He
said, "The permission of the virgin is to be sought. And if she
does not object, her silence is her permission." As for the
divorced or one who is widowed, no one has a say with her.
"If a person with satisfying
religious attitude comes to seek your daughter in marriage,
accept that. If you do not, there will be great mischief on
earth and a great trouble." At the same time young people who
are blessed with education have to show patience, understanding
and should argue their case in a rational and respectable
manner.
"A woman maybe be sought in marriage either for her
beauty, nobility, wealth or religious inclination. Seek the last
and you will be the more successful."
However, the hadith does not exclude beauty. It is one of the
qualities satisfying and protecting the hungry gaze. If that is
required in the young woman, it is required in the man too.
Al-Qurtubi reported the Prophet(SAW) as saying, "Do not give
your daughters to the ugly or nasty looking. For they desire of
men what men desire of women."
The wife of Thabit ibn Qays said to the messenger of Allah, "My
face and his face will never look at one another" He asked her,
"Why?" She said, "I looked at him coming in the company of other
of his friends and he was the shortest and the ugliest." The
messenger asked her, "Will you return to him the dower he has
given you?" She replied, "Even if he asks more, I shall give it
to him." The Prophet(SAW) told the husband, "Take what you have
given her and release her." He did.
chackodepacko
10-07-07, 06:21 PM
IF a person is seeking for the religious qualities in a partner, but they cannot find somone who possess religious inclination (ie they don't establish regular prayers) however their attitude and behaviour is acceptable to them?
What should a person do in this situation..should they continue to seek someone who has religious qualities or should they accept these qualities?
dont make the mistake to set own standards. Allah swt and the hadith say how a noble act looks like. And it is said that those people who stick to the quran and hadith will inshallah get on the right path.
So, do you think it is accectable if he does not pray regurlarly?
I think it is better to find out if he wants to change his attitude.
After the death Allah swt will ask about the salaat. So, at this point, i dont think that it would be advisable to marry that person unless he wants to change his attitude.
In addition: In my opinion there are a lot of brothers who have a good faith or at least make many efforts to go this way.
Make istikhara and Allah swt will inshallah get for you/the mentioned person a good marriage-partner
Bint_Khalid
10-07-07, 06:58 PM
Insha'allah I intend to stick to the sunnah Alhamdulillah but my question addressed those individuals who cannot find a potential spouse that is practicing.
:jkk:
Insha'allah I intend to stick to the sunnah Alhamdulillah but my question addressed those individuals who cannot find a potential spouse that is practicing.
:jkk:
There are a LOT of practising brothers out there, how can individuals not find them? It's possibly difficult to find them if for example you're from a family which is not practising so most of the extended family and parents circle of friends are not practising which makes it harder to ask them to find someone who is. In that case, it's worth discussing with your parents the option of looking for a spouse who is not connected to the family but instead connected to practising friends or maybe Islamic schools you've studied at or places like that. Another option is that if the person is introduced to rishtas who are not practising, especially if she finds someone with other good characteristics as well, then she (or a male relative on her behalf) can discuss with the brother to find out how open minded he is about starting to practise and see if he shows a willingness to change- and do dua istikhara.
muslimahonline
11-07-07, 08:50 PM
Choose a wife from these 4 criterias, 1, for her beauty, 2. for the wealth 3 for the good family(descendants) 4. for her religion choose the one with religion as she will bring you peace ( rough translation - anyone has this hadeeth pls post it) also another hadeeth saying if a woman is being ask for her hand in marriage by a religious, pious person and he is denied there will be great fitnah in that land.
SOme parents ask what the future husband does for a living not because they are after their welath or money, as parents, they want to make sure that the new husband can provide for their daughter, whom they have cared for for twenty years, spent hundreds of thousands to raise.. ALL parents want the best for their children. They dream that their daughters would live in big mansions and marry wealthy husbands whom they can rely on when they are old and sick.
ALLAH will give you a spouse that is equivalent to you, you want a good husband or wife, you must try to be good yourself first, then maybe ALLAH will give you a good spouse... when we are not happy with our marriage, dont look at our partner, instead look at ourselves...
chackodepacko
12-07-07, 09:00 AM
ALLAH will give you a spouse that is equivalent to you, you want a good husband or wife, you must try to be good yourself first, then maybe ALLAH will give you a good spouse... when we are not happy with our marriage, dont look at our partner, instead look at ourselves...
Mashallah, a new answer.
heaven2002
12-07-07, 09:02 AM
[QUOTE=muslimahonline;1998241]Choose a wife from these 4 criterias, 1, for her beauty, 2. for the wealth 3 for the good family(descendants) 4. for her religion choose the one with religion as she will bring you peace ( rough translation - anyone has this hadeeth pls post it)
QUOTE]
the prophet SAW said choose piety over beauty, wealth and family name
will post the hadith later inshallah
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