View Full Version : The Broken Woman
ibn suleman
06-07-07, 04:32 PM
The Broken Woman - Fawziyyah al-Khulaywî
Lying in a recovery room in a hospital in Riyadh is a woman paralyzed from the neck down. When asked what happened, she replies: “My husband came to me accompanied by a woman and announced to me that she was his wife.”
“I could not bear it. I ran to the window and hurled myself three stories to the ground.”
Those moments when a husband declares that he has married another woman, they are the most difficult moments in the first wife’s life.
It is a pain that cannot be described.
It is a searing flame that does not subside.
It is a sense of loss, of sinking into an abyss, the depths of which rival the years they had spent together sharing the bitter and the sweet.
For the wife whose husband is, in the whole world, her pillar of strength and only refuge –
He is her kindred heart, her gentle guardian,
The one with whom she shares her joy, her grief,
Who consoles her in her weariness,
Whom she tends to in his distress,
Whom she rushes to when problems get to much for her to bear
And when things get out of hand.
She feels joy in embracing his children
And bears the long hours waiting for him.
She prepares food for him with her hands,
And would sacrifice for him her most precious possessions
Because he is her intimate friend in her lonliness,
Her companion in a strange world.
We cannot measure in time the lives they share together – for it is not in days, nor in weeks, nor in months.
Rather, in moments, in breaths.
When a woman gets married, she weaves for herself a special world
Whose morning is her children, her husband, and her home
And whose evening is light and hope.
Her joy is the sight of smiling faces;
Her felicity is peace in her home.
Her sky is not the sky we know
Nor her Earth the one we tread.
It is an inner garden, a timeless joy.
When her husband turns away from her by marrying again, the lofty cloud of dignity that had always sailed high in her sky dissipates and she is left with two choices:
To ask for her freedom and insist upon it,
Or rip her own dignity to shreds, gather up the pieces, and tread hard upon her injuries.
It is the breaking of a woman.
She only breaks because of the disregard for the womanhood within her.
Therefore, do not be surprised by the stories you hear – or think that they are made up – for they are the stories of women struck by the arrows of misfortune and cut by the blade of separation.
One woman prays, turning away from the direction of prayer. One is given a great sum of money and burns it on the spot.
One of them has her husband tell her the news right before the Tarâwîh prayer in Ramadan – so she goes forth and prays in the ranks of the men.
From the severity of their grief, some women suffer strokes leaving them paralyzed or bereft of one of their five senses.
A woman’s jealousy might drive her to an unpraiseworthy outcome – like murder, for instance – as comes in the following news report:
When she heard the news of her husband’s marriage, there built up inside her a great welling of fury and a desire for revenge. So she began to argue with her husband about it – and she had concealed a knife under her gown – and so, when her husband scoffed at her, she brought out the knife and stabbed him. He dropped down, murdered. She then turned herself in, saying that her great love for her husband compelled her to kill him; she could not permit anyone else – it did not matter who it was – to take him away from her. (al-Yawm Newspaper 11314)
Perhaps from all of this we can see the relevance of the hadîth of the Prophet (peace be upon him) when he left from `Â’ishah’s company one evening.
She says: I felt jealous for him. He came and saw what I was about and said: “What is with you, O Â’ishah, are you feeling jealous?”
I said: “And what is with me? Does one such as me not feel jealous for one such as you?”
He said: “Your devil has come to you.”
I said: “O Messenger of Allah, is there a devil with me?”
He said: “Yes.” I said: “And with you as well, O Messenger of Allah?”
He said: “Yes. But Allah has helped me prevail upon it, so it has submitted.”
[Sahîh Muslim (2815)]
* Fawziyyah al-Khuaywî is a member of the Saudi Academic Society for the Sunnah
Mmmm so true! Jazakallah Khair 4 that!
Whilst i am a woman, I have to be honest and admit i find these reactions extreme (i'm not disputing they are real reactions) I can imagine that one would feel betrayed esp if the husband did not seek permission from his first wife (not that he has to but courtesy is something as well).
Is the state of our ummah so dire now that women are taught that a husband having a 2nd wife is such a betrayal, almost as if it's wrong when it is not. If the husband is able to give both or all his wives their rights, we should teach our sisters to have sabr and to control our jealousy (which is natural) for jealousy comes from shaytaan.
May Allah (swt) give the sisters of our ummah strength to deal with such issues Ameen.
Lying in a recovery room in a hospital in Riyadh is a woman paralyzed from the neck down. When asked what happened, she replies: “My husband came to me accompanied by a woman and announced to me that she was his wife.”
“I could not bear it. I ran to the window and hurled myself three stories to the ground.”
Those moments when a husband declares that he has married another woman, they are the most difficult moments in the first wife’s life.
It is a pain that cannot be described.
It is a searing flame that does not subside.
It is a sense of loss, of sinking into an abyss, the depths of which rival the years they had spent together sharing the bitter and the sweet.
what ? :confused: these are muslim women ? acting like this ? because their husbands got married again which is his right from Allah ta ala ? :rubeyes: get a grip woman for the sake of Allah get a grip, read the Quran read what your Rabb ta ala has said :smack:
no muslim woman should never be surprised if her husband takes another wife, its his right, its up to him subhanAllah this is part of our deen, lets not let the emotional blackmail of women, play a part in wiping out this part of our religion, and lets face it its all but extinct now, la illaha illAllah.
and an advice to all brothers, be just with your wives insha Allah this is the most important thing, because if you are just and kind and treating your wife as you should be, then your wife will never ever complain about you taking another wife insha Allah ta ala, because she will have nothing whatsover to worry about.
I could not bear it. I ran to the window and hurled myself three stories to the ground.”
Wow.
What an idiot.
ur_yusra
06-07-07, 05:56 PM
A man isn't worth sacrificing your hereafter for..
A man isn't worth sacrificing your hereafter for..
No human being, whether man or woman is, worth sacrificing the Akhira for ...
:jkk:
Stupid women. The words "fear Allah" spring to mind!
Al-Qamar
06-07-07, 10:48 PM
:salams
If that situation should happen to any sister who is the first wife, she should be thankful. For the passage to Jannah has been laid open if she can see it.
Al-Qamar
06-07-07, 11:09 PM
:salams
:(
Grasp the opportunity with both hands and say 'Jannah is now only for me to lose'.
ummbilal
06-07-07, 11:25 PM
Wow.
What an idiot.
indeed it would have been better for her to have sabr, every muslim man has the right to marry up to 4 wives and every muslim wife is aware of this, she should have had sabr, inshaallah her heart will be softened.
Grasp the opportunity with both hands and say 'Jannah is now only for me to lose'.
:salams
i know theres like loadsa reward for patience inshaAllah... but its just a bit sad that ur husb, the person u think ur gonna be the most closest to in ur whole life... would just go off and get married without even discussin anythin with u, thats proper sad :(
raynboh
06-07-07, 11:53 PM
:salams
i know theres like loadsa reward for patience inshaAllah... but its just a bit sad that ur husb, the person u think ur gonna be the most closest to in ur whole life... would just go off and get married without even discussin anythin with u, thats proper sad :(
I agree.
Maureen
07-07-07, 12:00 AM
I would say also, that the pain a woman feels when she discovers he has another woman (without marriage) is also undescribable. Having said that, I would not go to the extreme that woman did. We have to pray hard when this sort of thing happens, and try to see the long-term goal that God has for us.
umm_yusuf
07-07-07, 12:21 AM
The Prophet :saw: once said, something to the effect of the second wife is death to the first wife.
I agree with the quotes above, the sisters could have exercised better patience and perhaps dealt with the situation better. The brother(s) could have informed their wives about the fact that they were seeking a second wife rather than just spring it on them.
However, I think it is upon us as muslims to suss out our weak points in deen and try to work on that.
If your weakness, as a woman, lies in the fact that you are not a big fan of polygamy, then work on that Insha Allah rather than just accepting it as a weakness and saying "I'm sorry I really can't take it...I'd rather die."
If your weakness, as a man, lies in somethingelse then work on that too Insha Allah.
As muslims, we submit and we train our hearts to love that which Allah Loves and hate that which Allah Hates.
I don't know any sister who came into the deen thinking "yay I can't WAIT to put on that hijaab and niqaab. ooh I am itching for it." But we trained our hearts to like it as we know that it is pleasing to Allah and Alhamdulillah now we can't imagine going out of our houses without it.
I used to hate dates because they were too sweet and I am not a sweet person. But I started eating it since my mum told me that the Rassul :saw: loved it and Alhamdulillah now there is nothing I love more.
Lets apply this logic to everything and May Allah make us of those who are successful.
The Prophet once said, something to the effect of the second wife is death to the first wife.
ukhti have u got a reference for that please insha Allah, i havent heard that before. :)
umm_yusuf
07-07-07, 12:49 AM
I'll ask my teacher Insha Allah.
He said it last week in class. That was the first I heard it as well. I trust his knowledge, so I didn't ask for its authenticity. But I'll get it for you and either put it up here, or pm you Insha Allah.
Jazzakallahu Khair.
I'll ask my teacher Insha Allah.
He said it last week in class. That was the first I heard it as well. I trust his knowledge, so I didn't ask for its authenticity. But I'll get it for you and either put it up here, or pm you Insha Allah.
Jazzakallahu Khair.
wa iyakki ukhti,amin
sorry sis :o if your able to then masha Allah, i`ll have a look for it too. just i love to learn ahadith insha Allah ta ala. jazakiAllahu khairin,
.
what ? :confused: these are muslim women ? acting like this ? because their husbands got married again which is his right from Allah ta ala ? :rubeyes: get a grip woman for the sake of Allah get a grip, read the Quran read what your Rabb ta ala has said :smack:
She paid for her love. To be paralysed its not a pleasure and i wonder if she will have someone to help her :(
You should better shout: these are muslim men ? Its not written he needs to protect his wife feelings ? Its not written he must prepaired his wife with the idea he wish to look for another? Or its allowed to look behind her back ?
:salams
i know theres like loadsa reward for patience inshaAllah... but its just a bit sad that ur husb, the person u think ur gonna be the most closest to in ur whole life... would just go off and get married without even discussin anythin with u, thats proper sad :(
:(
ibnKathir27
07-07-07, 09:20 AM
The reason these women are so shocked is that they are so used to the idea of one man for one woman. This is a concept that has only been the practice in the last few hundred years, predominantly in western countries but now has spread as western countries are the dominant culture in the world.
The norm (amongst those who could afford it) is one man many women and has been for thousands of years throughout human history and accross many cultures. Get over it.
In the west, the husband (and these days the wife!)cheats. In Islam the husband gets married again and everything is halal.
Muslimah's should be fully aware that their husband may choose to exercise this right at any time during their marriage and there are numerous stories about the sahaba which clearly points out that their other wives may not even be informed if their husband married again and certainly not consulted. This can be seen when Aisha R.A. saw Rasulullah S.A.W speaking with a woman and she thought he had married her.
If this is too much for you to bear dont get married.
Just because a man marries again does not mean he has any issue with his first wife. If he did no doubt he would divorce her rather than deal with the hassel of trying to keep everyone happy.
The reason these women are so shocked is that they are so used to the idea of one man for one woman. This is a concept that has only been the practice in the last few hundred years, predominantly in western countries but now has spread as western countries are the dominant culture in the world.
The norm (amongst those who could afford it) is one man many women and has been for thousands of years throughout human history and accross many cultures. Get over it.
In the west, the husband (and these days the wife!)cheats. In Islam the husband gets married again and everything is halal.
Muslimah's should be fully aware that their husband may choose to exercise this right at any time during their marriage and there are numerous stories about the sahaba which clearly points out that their other wives may not even be informed if their husband married again and certainly not consulted. This can be seen when Aisha R.A. saw Rasulullah S.A.W speaking with a woman and she thought he had married her.
If this is too much for you to bear dont get married.
Just because a man marries again does not mean he has any issue with his first wife. If he did no doubt he would divorce her rather than deal with the hassel of trying to keep everyone happy.
exactly masha Allah barakAllahu feek amin :up:
sis_niqabi
07-07-07, 11:04 AM
salam
may Allah heal this woman.ameen!
but i have to say astafirallah! this woman tried to kill herself.all because her husband took on another wife.i know sisters that have shouted,walked out the house and slapped their husband after finding out they took on another wife. but throwing yourself out of a window? praying in ranks of men? astagfirallah muslim women should not do such actions. polygyny should take a muslim woman out of islamic character.
there will be great jealous between the co-wives. but there is no excuse for muslim women to act like this.
She paid for her love. To be paralysed its not a pleasure and i wonder if she will have someone to help her :(
You should better shout: these are muslim men ? Its not written he needs to protect his wife feelings ? Its not written he must prepaired his wife with the idea he wish to look for another? Or its allowed to look behind her back ?
ukhti mara, what she did was not out of love, it was out of selfishness and jelously, and lack of fear of Allah we are not permitted to harm ourselves or try and commit suicide by throwing ourselves out of windows or by any other means it is Allah ta ala who gives us life and it is Allah ta ala who takes it away.
it is expected by a muslim woman that her husband may marry again, it is a part of our deen and even the prophet Muhammad salAllau alleyhi wa salam did not ask the permission of his wives to marry again because he doesnt need it, nor did he say to them oh i need to discuss something with u i might get married again blah blah blah ..
because a mans marriage is between him and each of his wifes, it is not a marriage between the first wife, and the second wife. The prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam married then would invite his wives to eat with him after the marriage and they would all wish him well and ask Allah ta ala to send His blessings on their husbands new wife.
we wish the best for our sisters in islam and we shouldnt have any problem if our husbands come home one day and say oh i got married today, so i will see u in 3 days insha Allah,masha Allah we wish him well, and tell him alhamdulillah as salamu alaikum see u in 3 days insha Allah :)
its no problem as our brother said above the problem is that muslim women today are following the ways of the christians and the jews, as the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam said some would, so now even the muslim women born and raised with muslim parents and grandparents in the muslim lands who have had 1400 years to get used to this in our deen, are complaining about this and thinking they have some say in the matter.
we wish the best for our sisters in islam and we shouldnt have any problem if our husbands come home one day and say oh i got married today, so i will see u in 3 days insha Allah,masha Allah we wish him well, and tell him alhamdulillah as salamu alaikum see u in 3 days insha Allah :)
I think you are special. I would never allow such a thing and when will happen i will only be upset how could i waste my life with such a product.I would kick him out in that day, not to share him.
I think you are special. I would never allow such a thing and when will happen i will only be upset how could i waste my life with such a product.I would kick him out in that day, not to share him.
ukhti u know i used to feel the same way when i first became muslim, because this was not the way i was brought up, i was taught that if a man loves another woman then this is wrong, and it is betrayal. but when i began to study islam with a shaikh, and understand the wisdoms of the laws of Allah for mankind, then i could see it was right, and the right way of life masha Allah and u know when my heart completely accpeted the idea? when igot married ukhti :D subhanAllah huh i was so happy ( at first :rolleyes: lol were divorced now) that i told my husband that he should marry again, so ukhti Ask Allah ta ala to help u understand.
the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam said "when Allah wants to do good for a person he gives them knowledge and understanding of their religion" sahih al bukhari
so pray to Allah to help u understand and accept this part of your deen and insha Allah your heart will accept and understand it and u wont worry anymore insha Allah ta ala :) may Allah make it easy on you and all sisters amin.
sunny_skies
07-07-07, 04:59 PM
I agree that this woman's reaction was extreme. It's just plain stupid to throw yourself out of a window.
However, I feel the reason women nowadays are so against the idea of their husbands marrying a second wife is due to the constant bad examples.
I have heard of as well as witnessed a couple of these situations whereby the man has got married a second time either to;
1) Make his wife jealous due to marital problems the couple are having, he knows he CAN, so he goes ahead and marries someone else.
2) Because he no longer finds his wife attractive. AGEING IS FROM ALLAH. WHAT DOES A WOMAN DO IF SHE FINDS HER HUSBAND UNATTRACTIVE IN HIS OLD AGE?? (I personally know a 50-odd year old woman who was told this to her face, her husband then went ahead and married a 21 year old knowing his first wife was upset and heartbroken)
3) Marries a second wife so that he can get a British passport and come live in Britain. He goes on to leave his first wife and kids back home, (with a lot of money) and settles happily in Britain, telling her he will travel back to visit as much as he can. Hello?? Where are her rights?
We must remember that the Prophet saw was the best of mankind, he was perfect. He knew how to treat all his wives justly, down to the amount of time he shared with each one. How many men nowadays can honestly say they would be able to do this EXACTLY as our beloved prophet Muhammad saw did?
Due to the incidents we hear of nowadays, if I heard of a man marrying a second time even though his wife was unhappy, I would question his motives. Is he marrying because he wants to follow the Sunnah or does he have some selfish wordly reason for doing so??
Why is polygamy allowed if you know that its going to cause jealousy? I thought Islam was all about prevention: You don't want to have feelings of lust between a man and a woman so you don't allow freemixing. In the same way, polygamy should not be allowed to prevent feelings of jealousy and hurt. Your thoughts?
Why is polygamy allowed if you know that its going to cause jealousy? I thought Islam was all about prevention: You don't want to have feelings of lust between a man and a woman so you don't allow freemixing. In the same way, polygamy should not be allowed to prevent feelings of jealousy and hurt. Your thoughts?
polygamy is something ordained by Allah, made permissible for men, because Allah says that " men are the maintainers and protectors of women" There are more men than women,men fight in wars and many tens of thousands loose their lives leaving behind many women, and so how will all of these women be married, if there is only one man allowed per woman ? it just all makes sense.
As for jelously women just need to get a grip on that, look even non muslim women who are married to one man get insanely jelous if their husband dares to speak or even look in the direction of another woman, its sickness that they should overcome jelousy is not a nice thing at all, and it eats away at a persons heart and mind and they start to become overly paranoid and zelous about their spouse, most wife beaters are like that go completely off their heads and say "oh its because i love you so much" yea right :rolleyes: same with insanely jelous women, its a selfishness and it needs to be dealt with when it arises, insha Allah , it happens to the best of women, and we know that this is just a part of the tests of life.
This type of Jelousy is something to be overcome insha Allah, the prophet Muhammad peace and blessings of Allah be upon him said " none of you truely believes until you love for your brother what you love for yourself" and so if a woman is married she should love that her sisters in Islam can also get married and have a secure life insha Allah, someone to care for them, and provide for them, it is not the place of a woman in Islam to provide for herself that responsability falls upon her muslim father/brother/uncle/grandfather until she marries then it falls upon her husband to provide all her needs. This is the way Allah made it, so that a woman is not overly burdened. so polgamy is a perfect solution to societies problems, marriage in Islam is a blessing in so many ways.
In the time of the prophet muhammad peace be upon him, men would rush to marry single, widowed or divorced women and take care of them and their children, today men marry for many reasons but not often to care for women, many of them are also afflicted with strange thinking about this, seeing women as leeches and not wanting to marry more than one, so as not to dip into their wealth, but if they truely feared Allah then there would not be one single muslim woman in any musim community in britain living off housing benefits and dole payments and handouts from the government and it is a shame upon the men of this ummah that sisters today are in this position with no one to care for them.
polygamy is the answer :up:
Radiohead
07-07-07, 06:18 PM
“I could not bear it. I ran to the window and hurled myself three stories to the ground.”
I'd like to hear more words from the woman as to exactly what happened and her feelings around it as - the writer of the article clearly doesn't empathise and so effectively damns her and keeps her quiet.
Love between two adults necessarily contains desire - anyone who has experienced love would be able to tell you that if that love is betrayed it is extremely hurtful. If a woman I loved and was married to told me randomly that she wanted another partner I'd feel a mixture of anger, sorrow, a sense of betrayal perhaps...Most men would feel that way - why wouldn't a woman's instinct be to feel the same? It is human to experince these emotions and some cope worse than others when they find love isn't reciprocated or trust is betrayed, as they see it.
but if they truely feared Allah then there would not be one single muslim woman in any musim community in britain living off housing benefits and dole payments and handouts from the government and it is a shame upon the men of this ummah that sisters today are in this position with no one to care for them.
polygamy is the answer
Dunno how you figured that - a far greater number of Muslim men claim benefits and dole payments than Muslim women (because to claim JSA and Income Support, you need to be looking for work, and many Muslim women do not look for work) - maybe working women should marry several of them to take them off the dole queues :D
I doubt that there are many people, Muslim or otherwise that can happily live polygamous lives to the satisfaction of all their wives and children. In the UK it would be illegal for starters - but also state social security exists so women don't have to look for a husband soley for the purpose of being financially looked after. Even if state support didn't exist, if one feels the urge to look after someone financially, they don't have to marry them. Certainly then in contemporary British society, few good reasons for polygamy remain.
I'd like to hear more words from the woman as to exactly what happened and her feelings around it as - the writer of the article clearly doesn't empathise and so effectively damns her and keeps her quiet.
Love between two adults necessarily contains desire - anyone who has experienced love would be able to tell you that if that love is betrayed it is extremely hurtful. If a woman I loved and was married to told me randomly that she wanted another partner I'd feel a mixture of anger, sorrow, a sense of betrayal perhaps...Most men would feel that way - why wouldn't a woman's instinct be to feel the same? It is human to experince these emotions and some cope worse than others when they find love isn't reciprocated or trust is betrayed, as they see it.
Dunno how you figured that - a far greater number of Muslim men claim benefits and dole payments than Muslim women (because to claim JSA and Income Support, you need to be looking for work, and many Muslim women do not look for work) - maybe working women should marry several of them to take them off the dole queues :D
I doubt that there are many people, Muslim or otherwise that can happily live polygamous lives to the satisfaction of all their wives and children. In the UK it would be illegal for starters - but also state social security exists so women don't have to look for a husband soley for the purpose of being financially looked after. Even if state support didn't exist, if one feels the urge to look after someone financially, they don't have to marry them. Certainly then in contemporary British society, few good reasons for polygamy remain.
1. i already said if " they truely feared Allah " this wouldnt be happening no muslim man should be getting handouts if he can work, if hes not disabled, then he has no excuse it is forbidden for a muslim to beg, and to beg from non muslims? not a chance. There is nothing illegal in this society about islamically marrying 4 women, islamic marriage is not recognised in the law of the land at all, u can have 4 islamically married wives in britain just as any non muslim can have more 4 girlfreinds at once, and any married man can have as many "mitresses" as he likes nothing illegal about it at all.
2. Also we dont care as muslims about "what the state provides for women" and we dont think that this is a better thing for women, so that they do not have to get married, as the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam said "whoever rejects marriage is not of me " there are far more reasons for getting married than financial ones, protecting ones chastity, having children and raising them in secure families, and having as many children as possible insha Allah so as to increase the muslim ummah.
3. and by the way it is haram to make jokes as u just did about a muslim woman marrying 4 men, dont mock your religion because joking and mocking anything from the Quran and sahih sunnah will take you out of Islam as Allah ta ala says:
" If you ask them (about this), they declare: "We were only talking idly and joking." Say: "Was it at Allâh (swt), and His Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and His Messenger (SAW) that you were mocking?"
Make no excuse; you have disbelieved after you had believed. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you because they were Mujrimûn (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, criminals, etc.). [9:65,66]
fear Allah brother and go learn about your religion because i have had far too many conversations like this with you now, u have the arguments of shaitan, and u are treading on dangerous ground before your Rabb if you are a muslim then
SUBMIT TO ALLAH TA ALA!
AND FEAR HIM!
AND DO NOT DIE UNLESS U ARE IN A STATE OF AL ISLAM!
Verily, the Muslims (those who submit to Allâh in Islâm) men and women, the believers men and women (who believe in Islâmic Monotheism), the men and the women who are obedient (to Allâh), the men and women who are truthful (in their speech and deeds), the men and the women who are patient (in performing all the duties which Allâh has ordered and in abstaining from all that Allâh has forbidden), the men and the women who are humble (before their Lord Allâh), the men and the women who give Sadaqât (i.e. Zakât, and alms, etc.), the men and the women who observe Saum (fast) (the obligatory fasting during the month of Ramadân, and the optional Nawâfil fasting), the men and the women who guard their chastity (from illegal sexual acts) and the men and the women who remember Allâh much with their hearts and tongues (while sitting, standing, lying, etc. for more than 300 times extra over the remembrance of Allâh during the five compulsory congregational prayers) or praying extra additional Nawâfil prayers of night in the last part of night, etc.) Allâh has prepared for them forgiveness and a great reward (i.e. Paradise).
It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allâh and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.
surah al azhab 33:35-36
Radiohead
07-07-07, 06:57 PM
Don't patronise me - if you have a problem with my analysis of the parallels or lack of them between Northern Ireland and the 'war on terror', go to the thread there and post about it. If you have a problem with my view on the UN, there was a thread for that - again post there, and answer the questions I asked including some citation for your allegation that Srebrennicia happened due to oil-lust. If you have a problem with my post on prisons, go back and post there and cite the figures that I asked you for which apprently prove that 'real non-muslim criminals are being taken out of prisons early to make way for Muslims'. If you can't back up the rheotirc with facts, tough, but don't pretend that it has anything to do with Islamic knowledge or piety.
And my 'joke' (it wasn't a joke - it was a light-hearted repy) wasn't directed at polygamy per se or anything in the Quran - it was directed at your argument referring to dole payments. Kindly quote me specifically to show me how I've mocked the Quraan - or is it just another one of your baseless allegations?
there are far more reasons for getting married than financial ones, protecting ones chastity, having children and raising them in secure families, and having as many children as possible insha Allah so as to increase the muslim ummah.
I don't and I didn't deny this. Read my post again:
"state social security exists (and therefore) women don't have to look for a husband soley for the purpose of being financially looked after..."
I even italicised the word 'soley' in the original post. I dont think it is good to get married soley for finaicial reasons, and state social secrutiy helps to ensure that women don't have to do that. Of course there are many other reasons for getting married.
Well Asiya, it seems to me that your view of relationships is very weird. Women need to get married to have someone provide for them because its not a woman's place to provide for herself, which in essence gives all the power to the men. And when a relationship does go bad, its the man who is given an out by being allowed to marry another while the women has to spend her life telling herself that the man has been given the 'right' to have an out and not her. Divorce is usually out of the question for this woman because in the kind of society where the man provides for the woman, the woman NEEDS a man even if she doesn't want one. I think this is the wrong look on relationships and how a good society must be built.
Peacenik
07-07-07, 07:25 PM
Wow.
What an idiot.
I don't think we should say things like that to this woman.
Who can experience what she did, emotionally ?
Well Asiya, it seems to me that your view of relationships is very weird. Women need to get married to have someone provide for them because its not a woman's place to provide for herself, which in essence gives all the power to the men. And when a relationship does go bad, its the man who is given an out by being allowed to marry another while the women has to spend her life telling herself that the man has been given the 'right' to have an out and not her. Divorce is usually out of the question for this woman because in the kind of society where the man provides for the woman, the woman NEEDS a man even if she doesn't want one. I think this is the wrong look on relationships and how a good society must be built.
u arent muslim right ? i wasnt brought up as a muslim either, nor did i even speak to a muslim about Islam before i became one, i read the Quran i believed it is the book from Almighty God/Allah and i submmited to it, because the word muslim, is an arabic word meaning one who submits to Allah.
your assumptions are false, A woman in Islam can work in a halal buisness if she wishes, when she is married any money that she earns is hers to spend as she wants, any money her husband has he has to spend on his wives and children. A man has no right whatsoever to any of his wives wealth. she doesnt have to spend one penny of her money on the home or bills or the kids even if her husband is poor her cannot ask her nor expect it from her ( though no muslim would want to see their brother suffer when they can help) . so how is she so hard done by ?
if a woman is divorced she does not worry because she trusts in Allah, and no woman would stay with a bad man and allow him to treat her like that she would divorce him not only for the benefit of herself, but for his benefit too, because he will be severly punished. So no muslim women are not afraid of divorce. No they do not "need" a husband to provide for them, because the men of their family will do that for them.
Allah has created mankind to have mates, husbands and wives, and there is nothing at all demeaning about being a muslim woman, and nothing demeaning about getting married and having a family, it is the way of this world for men and women, and there are so many benefits in it for all of society. Another thing to mention which is very important is that u have to look at polygamy throwing away everything you know about relationships in the non muslim world, because here in the west some men tire of their wives and seek a younger woman and dump the older one, and divorce her, in Islam it is completely different a man does not seek another wife because he "is tired" of the old one, he does not seek a wife because he is having marriage problems that would be the worst thing you could do. one wrecked marriage and u want to try another one when u didnt even sort out the first yet ? :0: ( and dont look at what "muslims" are doing for ur example first of all u have to know what is the definition of a muslim and its not some looser who is abusing his wife or wives. The prophet peace be upon him forbade the muslim women from marrying harsh or miserly men, also said the best of you are those who are best to their wives )
a man has to be just with his wives this is the condition upon which polygamy is permissible if he is being unjust then it is not for him.
if polygamy and Islam was such a terrible thing, then why would i as a woman choose this way of life for myself ? :0:
O, ic. I was under the impression from your earlier posts that a woman gets married to be taken care of. I guess if a woman can take care of herself, and has the option to leave if she doesn't like the decision of her husband's second wife, then its fine.
O, ic. I was under the impression from your earlier posts that a woman gets married to be taken care of. I guess if a woman can take care of herself, and has the option to leave if she doesn't like the decision of her husband's second wife, then its fine.
:up: Alhamdulillah.
if he is being unjust in anyway, then she has every right to divorce him wether she is his only wife, or his 2nd 3rd or 4th wife :)
sis_niqabi
07-07-07, 08:39 PM
salam
i think the reason of more and more muslim women being against polygyny is due to the western influence that a man must one have one wife and that's it. as we have seen that monogamy is not working in the west. there is such a high arte of men having mistresses that is unbelievable. and many women are living miserable lives because they are resorting to dating married because all the good men are taken.
in many countries nowadays women out number men. so if a man takes on 1 wife there will be many unmarried women left open to the haraam (i.e fornication,zina).
i know women don't like to hear this. but i think muslim women need to stop acting so selfish and allow women in need to marry their husbands. don't you want for your sister what you want for yourself?
Nihilist
07-07-07, 10:40 PM
we wish the best for our sisters in islam and we shouldnt have any problem if our husbands come home one day and say oh i got married today, so i will see u in 3 days insha Allah,masha Allah we wish him well, and tell him alhamdulillah as salamu alaikum see u in 3 days insha Allah
Oh My God! Asiya, why can't all the women I meet be like you? :D
Anyway. My personal feelings towards polygamy (and that's all I feel I can really refer to in this case) are not that's it's wrong, but that it does not feel right to me. Many cultures, including Islam practice polygamy. This is often down to gender demographics. For example in communities where women far outnumber men, polygamy is practiced. After all, the major social interest here is in procreation, and a man can make lot's of women pregnant at any one time, but a woman can only carry one child every nine months. Given this, if there is a population shortage, polygamy would seem to be the best social institution to endorse.
If you asked whether polygamy is natural or not I'd say this is a really tricky question. In terms of our most immediate animals cousins, there is some evidence to support it. Most of the great apes live in social groups consisting of one dominant alpha male, a number of females to whom he has sole sexual access to, a group of juvenile males (who may one day compete for the alpha male's position) and infants. But does this mean it's natural for human animals to do so? Well what would have changed in our environments to alter our inherent inclinations in this way? Human babies are possibly the most helpless offspring in nature, so maybe it's important for two parents to devote their energies to it's raising? *shrug* Seems plausible.
Emotionally? I think that romantic love is essentially - at least in part - a bit selfish. When you love someone, there is an element of possession and indeed jealousy naturally connected to it. That's not a judgment but a basic bit of introspection.
The case of this poor woman attempting to commit suicide is awful. I believe that in this particular case polygamy wasn't working. The reason is that she wasn't obviously comfortable with it. And that's what's important in any relationship, are the people concerned happy with the situation? If so, then who am I or anyone else to judge it? But if it is not then there really isn't a relationship there.
I must say, if you love and respect someone then communication is always key. This lady's husband should have informed her of his intentions prior to deciding to marry again.
But her actions would also indicate desperation, frustration and a feeling of impotence. Why else would she be driven to such an extreme action as suicide? Maybe she does not have much self respect? I find it really tragic.
Debater
07-07-07, 11:58 PM
If you asked whether polygamy is natural or not I'd say this is a really tricky question. In terms of our most immediate animals cousins, there is some evidence to support it. Most of the great apes live in social groups consisting of one dominant alpha male, a number of females to whom he has sole sexual access to, a group of juvenile males (who may one day compete for the alpha male's position) and infants. But does this mean it's natural for human animals to do so?
Sorry, we don't have any animal cousins, they are cousins to only those who think and believe they are. If they like they can make even donkeys their nephews, I don't mind.
Secondly Polygamy is not a must-to-do practice in Islam, it's only a do-when-required thing, besides if the 1st wife doesn't want her husband to get another wife at the same time the 2nd wife doesn't mind to be the 2nd wife, so if a lady has no problem to be the 2nd wife then why you have one. You don't like polygamy fine, don't marry 2 ladies, but if a lady wants to marry an already married guy then that's not your business, if the first wife doesn't like it, that's again not your business. I think it's much better for a lady to bear a second wife to her husband than to worry about his dating girls and sleeping with *****. After all we do have perverts who pretend to be very nice to their only wives but stick out their tongues for all the girls on earth.
Nihilist
08-07-07, 01:42 AM
Please do not say this. No woman should have to bear any situation with regards to her relationships she is not happy with. She should not have to feel pushed into a corner or that she has no options. If she objects to her husband, or finds it uncomfortable, then the only loving thing that a man can do for his spouse or partner, is respect her feelings and wishes in this case.
It is not fair to say, "...well there is this arrangement or the 'kaffir one', and you'll get no security in that because men simply sleep around and as such, fidelity is totally absent". Even if this were true wholesale (which it isn't), it would make no difference at all. It's not an either - or situation. Everyone has the right to be happy in their relationships and to demand that their partners respect their expectations and standards.
And just a further point to help clarify my intentions. I was not asking anyone to accept evolutionary theory in my post. I was simply considering the issue from a number of various positions. No one has to believe in Darwinism. It makes no ultimate difference in this case whether you accept it or not. Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks.
sunny_skies
08-07-07, 11:17 AM
salam
i think the reason of more and more muslim women being against polygyny is due to the western influence that a man must one have one wife and that's it. as we have seen that monogamy is not working in the west. there is such a high arte of men having mistresses that is unbelievable. and many women are living miserable lives because they are resorting to dating married because all the good men are taken.
in many countries nowadays women out number men. so if a man takes on 1 wife there will be many unmarried women left open to the haraam (i.e fornication,zina).
i know women don't like to hear this. but i think muslim women need to stop acting so selfish and allow women in need to marry their husbands. don't you want for your sister what you want for yourself?
Hmm, I don't think it's as much to do with Western influence as it is to do with some awful selfish men who use this sunnah as and when it suits them. There are so many men who have set bad examples, Subhanallah, many of them are actually INCAPABLE or providing for more than one wife and yet still continue to go ahead and marry a second, third or fourth time.
I stand by my original post, NO MAN can compare himself to our beloved propeht saw and say he will be equal with all his wives, down to the amount of time he spends with each one. If a man knows in is heart he is capable of doing this, AND has every intention of doing so, and he treats all his wives the same, he is just down to every last penny, then by all means he is fit to marry more than one woman. If he isn't, then no, it is not right for him to marry another woman.
Besides, in Islam men are taught to be kind towards us in every way:
"According to Quran the relationship between the husband and wife should be based on mutual love and kindness. Allah says: "And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." (Quran: Ar-Rum 21)
The Holy Quran urges husbands to treat their wives with kindness. (In the event of a family dispute, Quran exhorts the husband to treat his wife kindly and not to overlook her positive aspects). Allah Almighty says: “Live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.” (Quran: An-Nisaa 19)
"Dwell with your wives in kindness for even if you hate them, you might be hating someone in whom God has placed so much good." 4:19
Under no circumstances is violence against women encouraged or allowed. The holy Qur'an contains tens of verses extolling good treatment of women. Several specifically enjoin kindness to women (2:229-237; 4:19; 4:25). These verses make it clear that the relationship between men and women is to be one of kindness, mutual respect, and caring. Some verses, where Allah calls men and women "protecting friends of one another," refer to the mandated atmosphere of mutual kindness and mercy in the marital home (30:21; 9:71). Others show disapproval of oppression or ill treatment of women..."
So if a man left his wife heartbroken and weeping and went and married another woman, how is he showing kindess and mercy?
If he shouted and swore at her and told her he was going to marry anyway, isn't this verbal abuse and ill-treatment? How is he 'Dwelling with her in kindness'??
Men are commanded to OVERLOOK anything he dislikes in his wife, not go off and marry another woman because he has gone off her as she is getting old or no longer attractive to him.
Marrying upto four women is a Sunnah of the prophet saw, not a commandment!! Some men are starting to attach so much importance to it that in the process they are trampling on the rights of their wives!! Not good.
FallenAngel
12-07-07, 03:46 PM
i think the reason of more and more muslim women being against polygyny is due to the western influence that a man must one have one wife and that's it. as we have seen that monogamy is not working in the west. there is such a high arte of men having mistresses that is unbelievable. and many women are living miserable lives because they are resorting to dating married because all the good men are taken.
With all due respect, no relationship can truly prosper if the attention of either of those involved is divided to someone else. Focus must be on one another, not someone else too. In the west, women are just as guilty of this as men are. They are just less open about it and sneaky.
The reason why polygny is not liked by some women is because its use is seen to be obsolete, it is abused far too much and the only people who lose out on the arrangement thesedays are the children adn the women.
.: Anna :.
12-07-07, 04:15 PM
:up: good post sunny skies i agree with u :)
many men if they are practising polygamy are not doing it in the best way... even in this first story, he comes in with his 2nd wife and jst announces it to 1st wife then, after the marriage is done, and wit #2 by his side.... u have to admit that is very insensitive :S
tis not the end of the world :rubeyes: so long as hes still payin yer bills :o
fill yer heart with love fer the Creator so u dont have no space fer anyone else and u'll never be dissapointed
sunrise
12-07-07, 06:17 PM
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