View Full Version : 2nd marriage and how to go about it...
k after posting my comment in the other 2nd marriage thread, i was asked to make a new thread on the matter....
k well how exaclty do u go about a 2nd marriage, in terms of involvment of first marriage, proposal etc..
This was my original post:
k..heres a tricky situtation..
hmm...k
A sister in Uni, practising mashallah comes across a practising brother in Uni on the same course...Thing is this brother is married and is looking to get married again!...The sister thinks the brother is ideal and they get on really well at first i.e: in terms of work related business....and then the brother sends the sister quite personal emails...things like 'mashallah you'll make a gud mother etc!'.........
Couple of weeks down the line and 'freindship' has flourished..theyr like talking on msn til 4-5 am...and he has told her he is seeking a second wife....sister does not see this as a problem but family do...(she hopes they'll giv in gud time).....BUT...the brothers poor wife at home does not knw any of this!....
I was fuming when i came to knw all this but sister claims that what someone does not knw cannot hurt them...and that if he were to tell his wife of this situation it would just cause more tension and suspicion every time he went out!.................................
What do you guys make of this situation and how would i advise the sister?...jzk
What do you guys make of this situation and how would i advise the sister?...jzk
which sister.... the wife or the wife-to-be?
Honey87
25-06-07, 06:21 PM
The brother should speak to the Wali of the uni sister and take it from there.
Also tell her to do istikhara and keep communication very limited and if possible, stop. It was very inapproapriate of them both to be up until early hours chit chatting.
I replied to this on the other thread. please do read :)
heaven2002
25-06-07, 06:23 PM
i think its really wrong for a married man to be chatting like this to a girl without her parents permission and behind his wifes back
if it carries on it could lead to adultery
Honey87
25-06-07, 06:30 PM
i think its really wrong for a married man to be chatting like this to a girl without her parents permission and behind his wifes back
if it carries on it could lead to adultery
Indeed.
Him and this sister should marry asap. His wife should also come to know of the situation now as she will probably be very upset of knowing of this relationship.
Just to point out, yes, he does not need her permission to marry this other sister, however he must be open about his decision as if he hides this from his wife, it will only lead to more lies and deception which ofcourse is not acceptable in Islam.
heaven2002
25-06-07, 06:36 PM
ma'shallah ^^^
very true
and any marriage based on lies and deceit and where trust is broken is :rubeyes:
(and on a side note if this brother is stil a student at uni then its unlikely he has the means to support two wives)
Debater
25-06-07, 07:46 PM
Complicated; besides it's hard to comment or suggest anything with such insufficient information. I mean we can't judge the brother or the sister inovlved. I think both of them should take more time and shouldn't hurry at all because this is a very serious matter, it can destroy the peace of three persons and three families, maybe not.
First of all the brother is young, a uni student, like the sis involved. Possibly they both are immature and very emotional. It could be a temporary feeling developed because they both are still strangers, no relationship yet established. And everything glittering is not gold, it's human nature to have longing of owning something which is very new, very charming etc. Man is curious, a child may touch red hot coal because that's very new, lit up, beautiful..
If the first marriage of this brother was also a love marriage, then I'm sure he was as mad about his wife as he is towards this sis involved. After marriage the first wife lost her charm in his eyes, she became like an old car which he once longed to get; is there any guarantee that this brother will not fall in love with another sis again after this 2nd marriage?
It's my brotherly advise to this sis involved not to hurry at all in making a decision. This world is a deception, what you like today, you may hate tomorrow, what soothes your heart now may hurt you the next moment. Take some more time, he's already married, you're not gonna loose him, you can marry him later but first check if he's really a right person or just a mirage.
bottem line is even if u are discussing marriage... and maybe it should be said especially if u are discussing marriage ( subhanAllah think about it :rubeyes: so much more room for fitnah ) The prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam has said when they speak alone that shaitan is the third amongst them..
u cannot speak about these matters, and get to know each other alone, since when did it become ok to bi-pass the walli ... doesnt matter wether its a first, second third or forth marriage, u cannot go speaking to women alone and getting to know them like that. It all needs to go through the walli and his presence, or the presence of a mahram and the walli if the woman is a revert and has no muslim family. When this womans walli finds out whats going on, i doubt hes going to be impressed with a brother who does that...
la howla wala qwata illah billah..
I remember a few years back being on this Islamic mailing list and the brother in charge of the list started emailing me (ie emails directed at just me and not sent to the rest of the group). I don't mind if a brother emails me as long as he stays within his limits and as he seemed quite knowledgeable in religion from the group emails, I assumed that he knew how to behave and respected him enough to not mind it at first. I knew he was married and I kept anything I said to him concise, to the point and avoided getting into chit-chat stuff. It didn't take long for him to start getting a bit personal and asking me stuff about how I cope with being single and whether I get 'lonely' and insinuated he was getting 'lonely' himself (and I was just thinking "but ur married, u don't even have an excuse and why the h3ll are you telling ME all this):rubeyes: By that point I didn't care how practising, polite or active in dawah he appeared to be, I knew it was time to BLOCK :buttkick:
A married sister (ie not married to the bro I'm referring to) told me a couple of months before that she'd added a bro from that list on to her msn list at his request as he claimed he wanted to ask her about dawa issues etc but then he starts getting REALLY flirtatious with her. This made her really upset cos' she didn't say anything to provoke him and she had to block him. She didn't name names at the time but when the bro was being weird towards me I knew it most likely was the same culprit. His poor wife! I don't care if he was doing it to seek a 2nd wife or whatever else, there's no excuse for perversion like that.
My heart-felt sympathy to that man's wife. I'm starting have real problems with this marriage subject and the role of both genders.
Debater
26-06-07, 12:05 AM
That's the reason why there are limits set in Islam about separation of genders. One is very knowledgable or pious doesn't matter, shaytaan can attack anyone and we men are naturally attracted towards the females, and I'm sure interaction of men and women with an excuse of da'wah purpose is nothing but the deception of shaytaan.
Well, I myself am not pious, lol, and not talking about myself, still not looking for a wife.
Debater
26-06-07, 12:07 AM
My heart-felt sympathy to that man's wife. I'm starting have real problems with this marriage subject and the role of both genders.
No, if you want to have a 2nd wife, no problem, do it, but don't do this through flirting with girls. I'll try to be a nice husband, if I ever be one, that's a headache I believe, lol.
I wasn't talking about Polygamy specifically, although having said that personally I don't think I could ever understand a wife that is more than happy in sharing her husband considering the intimacy and the chance that he could emotionally favour his other wives more than her, but that is none of my business and I'd never question them. But marriage in general..
To me the concept of starting to live life actually. It's something new, its freedom and its exciting but to some its something to be feared and dreaded. That isn't right. You won't imagine the stories I've heard in my life, it made me even question the point of marriage.
Debater
26-06-07, 12:19 AM
Of course no wife will be happy if another lady shares her husband. Polygamy is not obligatory or a fard 'ibadat in Islam, it is allowed in certain situations/conditions.
One is very knowledgable or pious doesn't matter, shaytaan can attack anyone and we men are naturally attracted towards the females, and I'm sure interaction of men and women with an excuse of da'wah purpose is nothing but the deception of shaytaan.
Well, where that individual was concerned (and experience has taught me he isn't the only one), there are a lot of guys out there who use their knowledge and dawah skills as a ruse to try and get sisters to let their guard down to open the door for less respectable conversations. I've often found more sincerity among brothers who on the surface look like complete jokers and nutters but know their limits when it comes to dealing with sisters.
talib ul islam
26-06-07, 01:52 AM
k after posting my comment in the other 2nd marriage thread, i was asked to make a new thread on the matter....
k well how exaclty do u go about a 2nd marriage, in terms of involvment of first marriage, proposal etc..
This was my original post:
k..heres a tricky situtation..
hmm...k
A sister in Uni, practising mashallah comes across a practising brother in Uni on the same course...Thing is this brother is married and is looking to get married again!...The sister thinks the brother is ideal and they get on really well at first i.e: in terms of work related business....and then the brother sends the sister quite personal emails...things like 'mashallah you'll make a gud mother etc!'.........
Couple of weeks down the line and 'freindship' has flourished..theyr like talking on msn til 4-5 am...and he has told her he is seeking a second wife....sister does not see this as a problem but family do...(she hopes they'll giv in gud time).....BUT...the brothers poor wife at home does not knw any of this!....
I was fuming when i came to knw all this but sister claims that what someone does not knw cannot hurt them...and that if he were to tell his wife of this situation it would just cause more tension and suspicion every time he went out!.................................
What do you guys make of this situation and how would i advise the sister?...jzk
There is nothing wrong with a 2nd marriage but it seems the brother has approached this sister in a haraam way by free mixing with her etc, so the whole foundation of this situation/relationship seems wrong, and by hiding the situation from his first wife can only leed to further problems, would your friend be ok with him marrying wife number 3 and 4 without telling her first? ask her how she would feel if she was the first wife?
I must add I don't have any problems with polygamy, but this situation seems wrong, but if the brother's first wife was ok with it and he approached the second sister in a halaal way I would have no problems with it more so I would encourage it.
Songbird
26-06-07, 02:57 AM
A sister in Uni, practising mashallah comes across a practising brother in Uni on the same course...Thing is this brother is married and is looking to get married again!...The sister thinks the brother is ideal and they get on really well at first i.e: in terms of work related business....and then the brother sends the sister quite personal emails...things like 'mashallah you'll make a gud mother etc!'.........
Couple of weeks down the line and 'freindship' has flourished..theyr like talking on msn til 4-5 am...and he has told her he is seeking a second wife....sister does not see this as a problem but family do...(she hopes they'll giv in gud time).....BUT...the brothers poor wife at home does not knw any of this!....
What do you guys make of this situation and how would i advise the sister?...jzk
I know quite a lot about this kind of 'relationship', so I'll temper my words...
What kind of God-fearing brother [and a married one to boot!] speaks to a sister at this time of the morning?
I mean if you were to reverse the situation, how would a brother feel if when he was fast asleep, his wife snuck onto the pc and starting chatting privately to a brother?
Oh and please don't tell me all this private chit-chat is Halal, unless you're going to convince me the Shaitaan isn't sat right beside you.
You think his hormones would've been somewhat assuaged with his current marriage :rolleyes:
Sadly this isn't a unique situation and inshaAllah the sister wisens up to how wrong it all is and finds herself someone more God-fearing.
Songbird
26-06-07, 03:01 AM
There is nothing wrong with a 2nd marriage but it seems the brother has approached this sister in a haraam way by free mixing with her etc, so the whole foundation of this situation/relationship seems wrong, and by hiding the situation from his first wife can only leed to further problems, would your friend be ok with him marrying wife number 3 and 4 without telling her first? ask her how she would feel if she was the first wife?
I must add I don't have any problems with polygamy, but this situation seems wrong, but if the brother's first wife was ok with it and he approached the second sister in a halaal way I would have no problems with it more so I would encourage it.
Sorry I missed this. Agreed totally.
A very wise brother said to me once, "What starts in Haraam, ends in Haraam."
Considering the sanctity of marriage in Islam, I'd much enter a marriage based on "Halal grounds", inshaAllah.
Songbird
26-06-07, 03:08 AM
Well, where that individual was concerned (and experience has taught me he isn't the only one), there are a lot of guys out there who use their knowledge and dawah skills as a ruse to try and get sisters to let their guard down to open the door for less respectable conversations. I've often found more sincerity among brothers who on the surface look like complete jokers and nutters but know their limits when it comes to dealing with sisters.
Sheesh, and another one.
Totally agreed and very well put, ukhti.
One thing I've come to learn about online "relationships" is that never be fooled by a brother who is seemingly very knowledgeable.
I know of a few sisters in my area that were led into Haram through online discussions with a supposedly knowledgeable brother. The hurt and betrayal that came about really screwed up some of these sisters. In one case "he" was pivotal in her donning the hijab, but then he took advantage of her naivete in other ways.
Alhamdulillah, the brother's trecherous ways were soon found out and in some cases, some of these sisters are now happily married alhamdulillah.
One thing I have come to learn is that for the sisters, you're often better off with a struggling Mu'min who doesn't pretend to be something he's not, rather than with a 'man' who can pluck Ayahs and ahadith to lace his emails/msn chats or lectures, but it's all just a facade to lure you into his online hormone-filled adventures.
Sisters, beware.
I would tell the wife-to-be to back off and find a man who is not married. I'd also tell her to put herself in the shoes of the first wife. How would she feel if her husband liked spending more time with a woman other than her? :(
You can tell how a brother will treat his second wife from the way he treats his first. If he keeps secrets from the first, he'll keep secrets from the second too.
What would make a woman want to marry a man who is already married anyway? :vomit:
*IslamicGirl*
26-06-07, 09:02 AM
:start:
:salams
Couple of weeks down the line and 'freindship' has flourished..theyr like talking on msn til 4-5 am...and he has told her he is seeking a second wife....
Maybe the silly sister was having problems waking up for Fajr and the sneaky brother thought that his dawah practises could be improved in this situation - a sister in need is a 2nd wife indeed :rolleyes:
SubhanAllah 4-5 AM in the morning .... why didn't his wife suspect anything like the hubby has not come to bed?
:wswrwb:
Niqaabi
26-06-07, 10:25 AM
I agree with sis 'asiya just because you are marrying for the second third or forth time does not mean the same conditions to the first marriage does not apply. The sister who he intends to marry is still ghayr mahram to him and he must only speak to her when her wali/mahram is present.
Secondly is not permissable for him to talk to any sister regardless of marriage if it not work/education related. MSN is a door to idle talk between brothers and sisters and seen as he is up till 5am in the morning i highly doubt they are talking about something work related.
I dont know but this guy seems dodgy. A man who is up till 5am talking to a propective wife and not telling his previous wife about it just seems really fishy. I wouldnt marry a guy like that because it just seems he is doing something sinister and wrong, and the little fact that if he tells his wife what was going on will cause fitnah just makes the situation even more wrong.
May Allah save us from the evil of our desires.
tell the sister (Wife-to-be)... hang on.. how can she be wife-to-be when there's no official engagement... that's deceit from my personal opinion...
anyhoo... telll the sister if he can do this to his first wife, what is going to stop him from doing it again if he marries this sister? She says it's ok, but will she accept if he does it on her after their marriage... if they do get married eventually...?
What do you guys make of this situation and how would i advise the sister?...jzk
To speak with a non mahram till 4 am is ridiculously stupid...and UnIslamic. Furthermore this man is married. I'm not in favour of polygamy in today’s time…and I’ve mentioned why in other threads.
Firstly, if this man wants a second wife then he should do it the 'proper' way. He should tell his first wife rather than indirectly flirting with a girl through msn. How would he feel if his wife had done the same thing to him? Men these days…they think it’s acceptable for them to have conversations with the opposite gender…but when it’s their own sister/wife involved….shutting them in the house would be the only option. Both sides should realise what they are doing is ‘wrong’.
Secondly, he should respect his wife's decision if she disagrees to the second marriage.
Thirdly, the girl should tell her parents about this situation. If she is prepared to get married to an 'already' married man...then by all means go ahead. If her parents refuse (I don't blame them) then forget the whole situation. Parent's blessings are extremely important.
:)
Of course no wife will be happy if another lady shares her husband. Polygamy is not obligatory or a fard 'ibadat in Islam, it is allowed in certain situations/conditions. thats not actully true, many beleiving women are very happy with polygamy, and have no problem with their husband remarrying, as many of the wives of the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam, and the wives of the sahabbas, the tabyieen and so on did not have a problem with it.
There is nothing wrong with polygamy it is a beautiful thing, it is from our Rabb as He ta ala knows best his creation, and we should stop saying "all women hate to share their husbands" because this is a type of kufr for women to say such a thing about what Allah ta ala has made halal for the human race, and many of us women hear Allah ta ala and obey, and have no personal opinion in the matter as He ta ala told us in surah al azhab,ayat 36, thats the way it should be.
Try not to make excuses for the polygamy apologists who dont accept this part of our deen and instead follow their desires on that, because on the day of judgement they will all be crying and whimpering and whinging and trying to make excuses before Allah ta ala rabbil alamin !! as to why they rejected this part of our beautiful deen and as to why our sisters were struggling alone,because they refused to "allow" their husbands to remarry again
the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam has already said 1400 years ago that a time will soon come when a man is responsible for more than 50 women, so for all those who think that polygamy is not for today ... think again and hear and obey the words of your prophet, and your Rabb who has told u to hear and obey what the messenger salAllahu alleyhi wa salam brings you...because Allah ta ala perfected our religion for us, and did not make any mistake in that, and for any woman to hate polgamy is a type of kufr, we are muslims we hear and obey and we do not have a personal opinion in the matter...
Sheesh, and another one.
Totally agreed and very well put, ukhti.
One thing I've come to learn about online "relationships" is that never be fooled by a brother who is seemingly very knowledgeable.
I know of a few sisters in my area that were led into Haram through online discussions with a supposedly knowledgeable brother. The hurt and betrayal that came about really screwed up some of these sisters. In one case "he" was pivotal in her donning the hijab, but then he took advantage of her naivete in other ways.
Alhamdulillah, the brother's trecherous ways were soon found out and in some cases, some of these sisters are now happily married alhamdulillah.
One thing I have come to learn is that for the sisters, you're often better off with a struggling Mu'min who doesn't pretend to be something he's not, rather than with a 'man' who can pluck Ayahs and ahadith to lace his emails/msn chats or lectures, but it's all just a facade to lure you into his online hormone-filled adventures.
Sisters, beware.
sadly often true ... yup beware sisters ,and always go through your trusted muslim walli that is what they are there for, ( and remember if your a revert or your walli is not your mahram, then u cannot be sitting and talking alone with him,bring a mahram too, to see ur walli, and beware about who u choose to be your walli because your walli can marry you to himself in front of two witnesses ..)
any man who asks about marriage and doesnt mention wanting your wallis contact or phone number.. then run ladies.... cos sah, as u were told sis songbird is quite right, anything that starts with haram dealings will end in haram dealings...
ze leetle elper
26-06-07, 12:00 PM
Personally, if he cannot even conduct himself properly when looking for another wife, then he obviously should not be marrying agaian. If he cannot even fulfil his duties towards his 1st wife properly, he is in no sitation to be even considering getting married again.
I mean has he even thought it through? What is he going to do? Come home one day 'Honey I'm home, oh had a terrible day at work but its all ok now becuse I got married this afternoon again' HELLOOOOO wake up and smell the coffee Romeo.
Medievalist
26-06-07, 12:03 PM
1. the lady should sever ties with him.
2. if he wants to marry her he should approach her walee.
3. although it isn't an obligation to tell his first wife, good character demands that a man inform his wife that he is marrying again. it doesnt bode well for his character that he is keeping his first wife in the dark - if anything - it indicates cowardice.
Personally, if he cannot even conduct himself properly when looking for another wife, then he obviously should not be marrying agaian. If he cannot even fulfil his duties towards his 1st wife properly, he is in no sitation to be even considering getting married again.
I mean has he even thought it through? What is he going to do? Come home one day 'Honey I'm home, oh had a terrible day at work but its all ok now becuse I got married this afternoon again' HELLOOOOO wake up and smell the coffee Romeo.
Dya reckon he calls himself "Romeo" on msn? :crying: ok.. shouldnt be making jokes.. but if he really does want a second wife then i doubt talking to her till 5am in the morning is the most appropriate way of going about it... i dont understand... does wifey number 1 not question why he is on the net at such stupid hours?
Personally, if he cannot even conduct himself properly when looking for another wife, then he obviously should not be marrying agaian. If he cannot even fulfil his duties towards his 1st wife properly, he is in no situation to be even considering getting married again.
I mean has he even thought it through? What is he going to do? Come home one day 'Honey I'm home, oh had a terrible day at work but its all ok now because I got married this afternoon again' HELLOOOOO wake up and smell the coffee Romeo.
Ditto sis...
He should tell his first wife first anyway, why hide it from the one he loves? :scratch:
:jkk:
1. the lady should sever ties with him.
2. if he wants to marry her he should approach her walee.
3. although it isn't an obligation to tell his first wife, good character demands that a man inform his wife that he is marrying again. it doesnt bode well for his character that he is keeping his first wife in the dark - if anything - it indicates cowardice.
I second brother Med :up:
:jkk:
Debater
26-06-07, 01:04 PM
thats not actully true, many beleiving women are very happy with polygamy, and have no problem with their husband remarrying, as many of the wives of the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam, and the wives of the sahabbas, the tabyieen and so on did not have a problem with it.
There is nothing wrong with polygamy it is a beautiful thing, it is from our Rabb as He ta ala knows best his creation, and we should stop saying "all women hate to share their husbands" because this is a type of kufr for women to say such a thing about what Allah ta ala has made halal for the human race, and many of us women hear Allah ta ala and obey, and have no personal opinion in the matter as He ta ala told us in surah al azhab,ayat 36, thats the way it should be.
I don't know about ladies that some or many of them are happy to share their husbands with other wives. That was my personal opinion, it can't be 100% correct but there is of course some truth in it that most of the women are not happy with polygamy. We see this in the life of Ummul Mu'mineen 'Aishah radhiyAllahu 'anha, that's a natural feeling of jealousy; Allah has made us like that.
And saying the above doesn't mean we are disobeying or criticising, ma'athAllah, the blessings with which Allah has bestowed us.
Polygamy of course is a blessing to both men and women but where it is required.
Something is halaal doesn't mean we run for it because it's nice. For example keeping a slave girl is halaal doesn't mean we must keep one as today this practice is vanished in most of the part of world.
Mut'ah was halaal once according to some traditions doesn't mean it was halaal for everyone those days, rather for those who were engaged in fighting.
Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam had 9 wives (or more) but he didn't have many children (alive), only 4 daughters. I mean as far as I know, polygamy is not a Command of Allah but it's a Permission from the Almighty.
But sadly, many guys run for those permissions or halaal things which are charming. They remember Islam when it's about gains.
Honey87
26-06-07, 01:58 PM
Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam had 9 wives (or more) but he didn't have many children (alive), only 4 daughters. I mean as far as I know, polygamy is not a Command of Allah but it's a Permission from the Almighty.
:up:
I think there are two perceptions of Polygamy, and although both are accepted, both are not looked upon the mind with favour.
As sister 'Asiya suggested, there is a very noble purpose for Polygamy in where a man marries other women to support them and take care of those who are unfortunate enough not to be married or be self-dependant. I can imagine that this the fundamental reason for most Polygamous marriages.
The other purpose for Polygamy is that obviously its for the favour of the husband who feel's that perhaps he needs another woman in his life for whatever reason. This naturally, and everyone will understand this, is a sensitive area solely because of the potential emotional harm that could come to his first wife. Some women fortunately deal with it very well. And some don't.
However, in no time is this ever rejected. I don't think any Muslim would choose to directly oppose our Lord's word by rejecting this practice in which he has ordained permissible for certain men. It is just a matter of looking upon it with favour, or even perhaps understanding - which are often two difficult feelings to associate with this other purpose.
Songbird
27-06-07, 03:17 AM
i dont understand... does wifey number 1 not question why he is on the net at such stupid hours?
You know why she probably doesn't question him?
Because when you agree to marry a brother/sister, you're putting almost your implicit trust in them. Allah swt tells us in Surah Ar-Rum, that we're garments for each other: that is you feel comfort and warmth in each other's presence at ALL times.
Marriage is built on two important foundations: respect *and* trust. Thus most of us who would agree to a marriage do so because we feel that we can trust that soul with our life.
Sadly for some of us, our trust can be eroded when you're deceived by a Mu'min and once it's gone, it's pretty hard to resurrect.
I for one, feel especially for the first wife; she probably naively assumes hubby is doing some work oblivious to the fact that this online relationship is the perfect haven for him and his clandestine ways.
InshaAllah this is a reminder to us all that Shaitaan prays on us all and that it's far easier to say yes to him, than it is to say yes to Allah swt. Make du'a that you will never marry such a person, or that your current spouse doesn't do what more and more married people are doing [yes, sadly that include Muslims] nowadays.
And one more time as many such as asiya have said: be wary of a brother that approaches you and gives you his msn or phone details. Especially one who is already married.
If you want to marry a truly God-fearing brother, look for one that asks to speak to your Wali. It is by far the harder route to travel but it will be a great indicator if he's genuinely interested in you for marriage, or whether he looks at you as simply an electronic dalliance.
Sadly I know quite a few sisters -- veiled, non-veiled and in Niqab -- who quite happily chat to brothers online in the hopes of marriage, oblivious to the inherent dangers that lie within such discussions. "Oh it's OK, we're not *doing* anything" they contend. Like I said, what starts in Haram, more often than not, ends in Haram.
If a brother sees you from afar, or knows of you in a good way, and he's sincerely wishing to get to know you, he can approach you, ask for your Wali's details and take it from there. That takes courage and courage is an inherent quality in a *real* man. If the brother tries to take the easier, and more fun route [by grabbing your mobile number or MSN details], know that you're simply to him *another -- yes, another -- online conquest/girlfriend/idiot.
Don't say you weren't warned because I know it happens a lot. Especially on so-called Islamic discussion boards.
Fear Allah people - He sees and hears every thing you say and do.
Jzk for all your comments and advice peeps...i think i just about mentioned everything you've all mentioned but theres only so much we can do...both persons involved are aware of the situation that they are in and mashallh the brother knows his deen (well it seemed like it anyway!)..which is something i think the sister finds quite intimidating :rolleyes: , so she kinda goes along with what he says without thorough questioning!....
Something tht the sis mentioned to me once was that apparantly for marriage purposes he was allowed to see her hair with the condition that he would not discuss it with a single being..?:rubeyes: ...i was a bit confused as this was something iv not come across....i still am confused...whats the ruling on this?...
jzk...:up:
heaven2002
27-06-07, 09:18 PM
^^^ so know shes showing her hair to him?
i have serious alarm bells ringing in my head about this man
but as you said there is only so much you can warn people
^^^ so know shes showing her hair to him?
i have serious alarm bells ringing in my head about this manbut as you said there is only so much you can warn people
lol...no she hasnt shown her hair but it was something he mentioned..and apparantly it was alryt for him to see it for marraige purposes?!!! :rubeyes: like i said i havent really come across anything like that before...
heaven2002
27-06-07, 09:29 PM
he sounds so weird to put it mildly
Jzk for all your comments and advice peeps...i think i just about mentioned everything you've all mentioned but theres only so much we can do...both persons involved are aware of the situation that they are in and mashallh the brother knows his deen (well it seemed like it anyway!)..which is something i think the sister finds quite intimidating :rolleyes: , so she kinda goes along with what he says without thorough questioning!....
Something tht the sis mentioned to me once was that apparantly for marriage purposes he was allowed to see her hair with the condition that he would not discuss it with a single being..?:rubeyes: ...i was a bit confused as this was something iv not come across....i still am confused...whats the ruling on this?...
jzk...:up:
WHAT'S THE "RULING" ON THIS???
Oh, good grief.
You don't need even to be a Muslim to see that this guy is an evil nutcase.
I'm sorry. But. Seriously.
It's bad enough when a secular guy messes with a secular girl's emotions simply because he wants to have sex with her.
But it's truly disgusting when a guy uses a religious pretext to mess with a girl.
And it's equally disgusting when a girl allows a guy to use a religious pretext to mess with her.
Why dirty the religion? Why drag religion into the mix?
I mean, if you wanna sin, at least have some self-respect.
I would tell the wife-to-be to back off and find a man who is not married. I'd also tell her to put herself in the shoes of the first wife. How would she feel if her husband liked spending more time with a woman other than her? :(
What would make a woman want to marry a man who is already married anyway? :vomit: are u going to ask the wifes of the prophet SalAllahu alleyhi wa salam that same question.. are u going to ask Allah ta ala that question and hold such opinions before ur Rabb... i think not. Read the Quran ukhti insha Allah all will become clear.
Jzk for all your comments and advice peeps...i think i just about mentioned everything you've all mentioned but theres only so much we can do...both persons involved are aware of the situation that they are in and mashallh the brother knows his deen (well it seemed like it anyway!)..which is something i think the sister finds quite intimidating :rolleyes: , so she kinda goes along with what he says without thorough questioning!....
Something tht the sis mentioned to me once was that apparantly for marriage purposes he was allowed to see her hair with the condition that he would not discuss it with a single being..?:rubeyes: ...i was a bit confused as this was something iv not come across....i still am confused...whats the ruling on this?...
jzk...:up: :smack: this guy is clearly twisting the deen to suit his personal desires, he is using the hadith of the sahabba who had not seen a woman he was considering marrying, and so he hid to see what made him marry her, so what makes a man marry a woman ? her face of course, because Allah ta ala has made it forbidden for a man to look at a womans face more than once unless he seeks marriage with her ( verified again by another sahih hadith where the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam turned away the companions face when he looked at a womans face again when she passed and he said the first ( accidental ) look is forgiven the second ( deliberate look ) is a sin, and also the ayats of Allah ta ala that clearly state that u cannot show ur awra to a non mahram man at all !! )
now some sickos who want to use the deen for their personal desires, claim that because of this one hadith ( and notice that they leave behind and throw away all the other daleel in this regard ) that a father can even hide a man in his house, and have him spy on his daughter when she is not covered, if he wishes to marry her. Now bear in mind all of the daleel, sahih hadith about do not spy on one another, the position of the walli in being responsible before Allah ta ala for those in his household, and being forbidden paradise if he does not sincerely fulfill those duties to his wards.
in fact these people will even go as far as to say that he can see her naked, yes naked!! if he hides and peeks at her with her father or wallis permission !!!! come on!!! where are the ayats of Allah where are all the other sahih hadith!!! these are people of desire not people of knowledge , my ex-husband used to claim all this type of stuff ( after we were married or i never ever would have married such a man) i have heard it all before, and i never ever accepted what he had to say on this issue it has no daleel at all, it is clearly batil. and whats she going to do if he doesnt like her san hijab ? what then ? he knows what her awra looks like and he is not even her mahram! ajeeb!!!!!!
Tell this sister that a persons knowlegde means nothing unless it is encompassing all of the daleel from Allah ta ala and his messenger salAllahu alleyhi wa salam, she can clearly see from the ayats of the Quran ( even if she doesnt know hadith) that it is not permissible to show a non mahram man her awra , look even shaitan has good knowledge of al Islam, he even knows who is Allah ta ala and it doesnt mean a thing to him...
WHAT'S THE "RULING" ON THIS???
Oh, good grief.
You don't need even to be a Muslim to see that this guy is an evil nutcase.
I'm sorry. But. Seriously.
It's bad enough when a secular guy messes with a secular girl's emotions simply because he wants to have sex with her.
But it's truly disgusting when a guy uses a religious pretext to mess with a girl.
And it's equally disgusting when a girl allows a guy to use a religious pretext to mess with her.
Why dirty the religion? Why drag religion into the mix?
I mean, if you wanna sin, at least have some self-respect.
:up: right on
Ditto sis...
He should tell his first wife first anyway, why hide it from the one he loves? :scratch:
:jkk:
are you sure he loves his first wife or he knows what love's about...?
showing the hair...? whaaaaa! that's precious thing you know!!! No way!!!!if she does... what next?
If he's really sincere... ask him to propose that in front of another brother as a witness! And see what the brother might do to him!!!
What audacity!
Tell the sister if she thinks his deen is commendable, advice her to see someone with even better recognsied deen and see what they say...better still, ask her to propose to him to go see together... i'm sure he'll find all sorts of excuses to evade... then she'll know what he's like...
vBulletin® v3.7.2, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.