Are Shi'as Muslim?

[Ibn Sina]

So ... are Shi'as in the fold of Islam or not?

[OBL]

Some are Some are'nt.

[ImaanSeeker]

most of them are not in the fold of islam.

[Tax-Man]

The Shia ideology is full of kufur, I Remember this sheik once telling me that most shias are ignorent to the truth of shiasm and for this reason they're still in the fold of islam but if a person is shia and understands and accepts the way of the shia they're out of the fold of islam.

[Sulaiman Harun]

95% are kaffirs while the rest, 5%, have quite similar thoughts as Ahl-ul-Sunnah Wal-Jam'ah's are.

[<-Deen uL Haq->]

The 1z who say ya ali ya madad are - that is the finest example of shirk, the 1st sin in islam - OH ALI HELP HElP ME - the 1z who say that are kuffr which most of them say. Also they curse the prophest best friend and daughter, and the rest of the sahabas and caliphs - which is a big big sin - these were the people promised heaven while they were on earth and they curse them!

Also in their dua they ask ali to ask Allah not Allah directly - shirk!

Beating your chest, damaging your body, blood everywhere - doesn't sound like what the prophet would do or teach!

Allah guide them to the correct and only sect - Muslim

[Abu Noah]

maybe you should ask some Shi'ahs :hidban:

[jzcasejz]

I put other as...someone said they can still be seen as Muslims. Forgot the actual reason.

But as for the ones that curse some of the Sahaba...astagfirullaah.

[Saadet]

Zaydi Shia are Muslim, Jafari Shia are ahle-bidah and many are on the verge of kufr, but are still ahle-qibla.

imho.

[Makki]

i used to get really angry about this claiming that all the shia are muslim. relatively recently ive met some shia who i have had to have strong words with about the bidah and shirk they display.

i would say some are some aren't...

[miss-islamic]

:nervous: I'm a closet Shia. What happens with me? :(


i used to get really angry about this claiming that all the shia are muslim. relatively recently ive met some shia who i have had to have strong words with about the bidah and shirk they display.

i would say some are some aren't...


why am I not surprised..:rubeyes:

[urban_rose]

i used to get really angry about this claiming that all the shia are muslim. relatively recently ive met some shia who i have had to have strong words with about the bidah and shirk they display.

i would say some are some aren't...

i would say that too :)

[GuCcI]

salaam

meh... who r we to judge :rolleyes:

[*IslamicGirl*]

:start:

:salams


Truly Allah knows who is a Believer or who is a disbeliever

I have found that many people with various actions and different beliefs call themselves Sunnis yet you can meet two of them and they have very very different way of thinking yet just because of their differences people cannot say one is right and is a Muslim and the other one isn’t. Some people automatically think if you're a 'sunni' then you're straight on the right path... even though it's just a label to them

Allah knows I think these type of threads aren’t beneficial because we all have our opinions – sure people can start threads ‘was saddam Muslim’ ‘Was tupac muslim’ etc – but the fact remains we cannot know what is in one’s heart only the Most Knowledgeable, the Most Just and the Most Intelligent Allah whose knowledge knows no bounds knows this – glory be to He – the Lord of the Universe. :love:

:wswrwb:

[stephenoskie]

Thats for Allah to decide:D

[Sis-Anonymous]

salamu alaikum

the majority of shi3a are kufar! the zaidis found in north of yemen are a sect from shi3a who are muslim but are from the people of bid3a but the ithna 3asharia who suplicate to other than allah and curse the sa7aba are kufar because there is ijma3 on the person who curses the companions is a kafir

they also say that their imams have knoweldge of the unseen

[Abu Mus'ab]

Like i've said in the past, shias are kuffaar (excluding the zaydi shias)

[Sis-Anonymous]

Like i've said in the past, shias are kuffaar (excluding the zaydi shias)


tru :up:

[stephenoskie]

tru :up:

who are we to judge,
let them do what they want and lets us try and be better muslims
why we watching whoi is muslim and who is not
this thread is stupid, and should be deleted.l

why you judgeing the Shia's thats for Allah to do.

Who are we to judge?

they beileve what they think is right, and we beileve what we think right meaning sunni's, but like i said Allah knows best.

So DONT judge please :D

[Sis-Anonymous]

we judge by the actions! thats how!

rules n condtions to the shahada

if one says i believe in ALLAH n makes du3a to something besides him he is a kafir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[`asiya]

wether anyone is a muslim or not ...all depends on a persons aqeedah ... not even every sunni muslim has correct belief.. some non shia muslims hold beliefs that are pure shirk too.. however as i understand it from a shaikh yes u could say in general shia are kuffar because they commit shirk and have devient beliefs outside of the fold of Islam, slander the sahabba and the wives of the prophet SalAllahu alleyhi wa salam, they falsify statements and attribute them to the prophet SalAllahu alleyhi wa salam, innovate in the deen, and do not accept the khalifate as it was, and have false beliefs about the mahdi and etc. which clearly goes against the teachings of Allah ta ala in the Quran and His messenger SalAllahu alleyhi wa salam.

However as is also in the case of some sunni muslims, that misguided belief may be just due to misguidance and ignorance when being raised by their parents etc. but as i have understood it the scolars dont make takfir on an individual person until they have discussed their belief with them as some types of shia, as mentioned, have beliefs that maybe misguidance and sinful but doesnt nessecarily take them outside the fold of Al Islam... so yes in general shia are committing kufr in their belief, but i wouldnt then automatically call every single individual shia a kaffir.

anyway its a matter for the ulema not the everyday people and i dont beleive the likes of me are in any position to make takfir on anyone.

[Islamiyyah]

Like i've said in the past, shias are kuffaar (excluding the zaydi shias)

Thanks for narrowing it down. Subhan'Allah its so simple :smack:

[Ibn Sina]

Looks like a split .... 7 say they are Muslims and 7 say they aren't .... Allahu Alim ....

[Taliban1]

Shias are not muslims.. goto www.kr-hcy.com and look for yourself

[Peacenik]

They make me sick with their demonic and twisted beliefs.

May ALLAH (SWT) Guide them.

Ameen.

[sisterKhadija]

WE should NEVER call ourselves Sunnis or Shias or anything else anyway.

Allah named us MUSLIMS!

[cl@rity]

They are various sects of shiaism and some extreme ones, like the twlevers, are kaafir. and Allah knows best.

[cl@rity]

WE should NEVER call ourselves Sunnis or Shias or anything else anyway.

Allah named us MUSLIMS!

sister, theres a huge difference between the two sects and their practises...so huge that if they were to be ignored, one could fall out of the fold of Islam.

[sisterKhadija]

sister, theres a huge difference between the two sects and their practises...so huge that if they were to be ignored, one could fall out of the fold of Islam.

That's my point, they never should have divided in the 1st place.

Quran specifically states that.

[mizfissy815]

sister, theres a huge difference between the two sects and their practises...so huge that if they were to be ignored, one could fall out of the fold of Islam.

That still doesn't mean we have to call ourselves Sunni, Shia, Sufi, etc...

Did the Prophet(saws) and his Sahaabah (R.A) call themselves anything but Muslims? That's good enough for me.

As for the topic...my pick is Other.

Some Shiaas insult the Sahaabah, celebrate their death and call those closest to the Prophet(saws) adulterers and hypocrites...Those are not Muslims in my eyes.

Now those who basically that the Ahl Al-Bayt are infallible and the like, but do not go so far as to insult/disregard the good of the other 3 Rightly Guided Caliphs, are Muslims. Sinning Muslims if they deal with the Muta' marriages etc...but Muslims (assuming they avoid Shirk as well).

[cl@rity]

That still doesn't mean we have to call ourselves Sunni, Shia, Sufi, etc...

Did the Prophet(saws) and his Sahaabah (R.A) call themselves anything but Muslims? That's good enough for me.

As for the topic...my pick is Other.

Some Shiaas insult the Sahaabah, celebrate their death and call those closest to the Prophet(saws) adulterers and hypocrites...Those are not Muslims in my eyes.

Now those who basically that the Ahl Al-Bayt are infallible and the like, but do not go so far as to insult/disregard the good of the other 3 Rightly Guided Caliphs, are Muslims. Sinning Muslims if they deal with the Muta' marriages etc...but Muslims (assuming they avoid Shirk as well).

If the shias had not deviated from the sunnah, we wudnt hav had to specify ourselves as sunnis.

[K h a l i l]

Some Shiaas insult the Sahaabah, celebrate their death and call those closest to the Prophet(saws) adulterers and hypocrites...Those are not Muslims in my eyes.

Now those who basically that the Ahl Al-Bayt are infallible and the like, but do not go so far as to insult/disregard the good of the other 3 Rightly Guided Caliphs, are Muslims. Sinning Muslims if they deal with the Muta' marriages etc...but Muslims (assuming they avoid Shirk as well).

So who is a Muslim?.. Allah tells us that every Muslim will enter paradise.
Allah also says that only one sect out of the (74?) will enter paradise.

Why did Muhammed (SAW) teach us Islam in a specific way rather than just tell to go worship Allah however you want? Because.. No other way is acceptable.

Anyway.. during the time whilst the prophet was still alive.. there were no shi'as because there were no khalifa at that time.

[wajiha10]

Shi'as are not muslim, because they don't believe in Abu Bakr [ra] and curse him.Also, they slap and harm themselves thinking that it will make Allah pleased. May Allah guide them to the right path! AMEEN!!!!!!!!!!

[mizfissy815]

So who is a Muslim?.. Allah tells us that every Muslim will enter paradise.
Allah also says that only one sect out of the (74?) will enter paradise.

Why did Muhammed (SAW) teach us Islam in a specific way rather than just tell to go worship Allah however you want? Because.. No other way is acceptable.
Anyway.. during the time whilst the prophet was still alive.. there were no shi'as because there were no khalifa at that time.
True...but where is that seemingly thin line between being a sinning Muslim and being Murtad/kaffir? Innovators add things into the religion (our complete religion) but does that immediately make them Kuffar?

There are certain things- nullifiers if you will- that are not to be messed with. Those that cross into that territory enter the Kufr zone...but there is always the intentions thing and 'not knowing'.

My point is, some Shiaas cross into the Kufr territory, but there are others that don't delve that far.
It would be stupid to label them all with the same brush.

[K h a l i l]

True...but where is that seemingly thin line between being a sinning Muslim and being Murtad/kaffir? Innovators add things into the religion (our complete religion) but does that immediately make them Kuffar?

There are certain things- nullifiers if you will- that are not to be messed with. Those that cross into that territory enter the Kufr zone...but there is always the intentions thing and 'not knowing'.

My point is, some Shiaas cross into the Kufr territory, but there are others that don't delve that far.
It would be stupid to label them all with the same brush.

Well.. I dont understand too much about the different types of shi'as.. but what I do know (and i've heard this myself) is that alot of shi'as say "Ya Ali" instead of "Ya Allah"... isn't that associating Allah with Ali (AS).. In my opinion it is.. and that is definately Kufr..

[Islamiyyah]

That's my point, they never should have divided in the 1st place.

Quran specifically states that.

Well, we are divided, and need to distinguish who is who.

[neelu]

The short answer: Some are and some aren't Muslim and many who are Muslim are very sinful due to certain practises.

The longer answer: If a Shia believes in a matter that goes against the pillars of Iman, then he/she is clear cut Kafir. There are rumours I've heard about Shias (but never found real life examples of Shias who carry such false beliefs) and IF (pretty big 'IF') Shias believe them then it takes them outside the fold of Islam. For example, I have heard rumours there are some in the Shia community who believe that the Quran is an incomplete book. I have also heard a rumour that some Shias believe that Prophethood should have gone to Ali (ra) instead of Muhammad (saw). Anyone who believes that would be a Kafir.

On the other hand, most Shias I know are in the fold of Islam but are VERY sinful due to certain practises such as: cutting themselves during Muharram, saying "ya Ali madad" (though they are very insistent that they do NOT worship him and if they were to say it as a form of worship it would make them Kufaar), referring to Muslims as Kufaar (yes I mean Sahaba [ra]). These are all VERY VERY sinful and deviant practises but do not constitute clear cut Kufr.

Most Shias I know are Ahle bida and not that different from Brelvis.

[Abu Mus'ab]

referring to Muslims as Kufaar (yes I mean Sahaba [ra]). These are all VERY VERY sinful and deviant practises but do not constitute clear cut Kufr.

On the contrary, that is clear cut kufr, you know the hadith of a person who calls a muslim a kaafir but that person is not a kaafir and then the one who called the person a kaafir becomes a kaafir instead? that hadith is enough to brand them kuffaar but that's not the only thing that makes them kuffaar, there are numerous ahadith too, like the one "none loves the ansar but a believer and none dislikes them except a munaafiq" (those munaafiqeen who are lower than the kuffaar in jahannam), and like the most famous one "he who loves the sahabah is because of his love for me, and he who hates them hates them because of his hatred for me....

And that is the view of the ulema of the ahlus sunnah.

[Arsalan]

Dunno, allow em i say.

[-Fady-]

me no like shia they scare me.......anywho years ago when i was in grade 5 in an islamic school there was a shia who would say to me if u need help ask ali and i was juts like.... :wacko: wat happened to Allah (Azza wajjal)? so yea i believe they are kuffar

[xris]

is this why the troubles in iraq will never be resolved you just dont like each other.

[K h a l i l]

is this why the troubles in iraq will never be resolved you just dont like each other.

Well.. everything seemed to be fine before America seemed to come along.. so you can't blame the shi'as and sunnis

[xris]

Well.. everything seemed to be fine before America seemed to come along.. so you can't blame the shi'as and sunniswas it how do you work that out.suppresed violence a one sided power structure made even by the invasion.two tribes released after years of subjucation now at each others throats.the yanks did not install this hatred expressed there and here on this site.

[Zaid the Great]

was it how do you work that out.suppresed violence a one sided power structure made even by the invasion.two tribes released after years of subjucation now at each others throats.the yanks did not install this hatred expressed there and here on this site.

the 'yanks' split up the Islamic Khlafah in 1918. nuff said.

[xris]

the 'yanks' split up the Islamic Khlafah in 1918. nuff said.im so pleased its so simple for you.enough said is because its an embarasment.

[Tosh]

If I answered No, and someone says 'I am a Shia Muslim and I believe in La ilaha illAllah Muhammad Ar Rasulullah,' I would be calling them a Kaafir, that is messed up. I don't take that stance, whoever says the Shahadah, they are a Muslim to me.

Most of us have little understanding of Shi'a belief systems, so have little right to judge...as I have said on many other posts, don't take such decisions so quickly when they have such a huge impact. The problem rarely gets as far as a sincere look at beliefs, it usually starts and ends at the two banes of society; MONEY and POWER.

I think it was really silly to have this thread, because it is obviously offensive and neglectful to what I hope are some of the UMMAH.com. There are many Muslims who would disagree with Non-Muslims, those who disregard the existence of Allah, less than they do with Shi'a...but...

Allah says in the Qur'an:
“Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you. Their judgment rests with God, then He will inform them of everything they had done.” (6:159)

“Such is your congregation- one congregation- and I am your Lord; you shall reverence Me. But, they tore themselves into disputing factions; each party happy with what they have.” (23:52-53)

A Change of Plan
Therefore, let's not focus on dividing ourselves. Let us, each and every one of us, focus sincerely on correcting our misconceptions and wrong beliefs. Rather than grouping people on how they collected which beliefs. We must be open-minded and ready to leave that which is found to be wrong, even if we have been practising it our entire life. Together we will hold on to the (single) Rope of Allah and achieve Paradise, inshaAllah.

[Ibn Sina]

Did you know that the Shi'a add the phrase "wa A’liyyan Waliullah " "And Ali is the Wali of Allah" to the Shahadah?

[Tax-Man]

whoever says the Shahadah, they are a Muslim to me.
But they innovate in the shahada by adding ali into the equation, and as we all know who ever innovates in matters of religion will have it rejected so in this case the very testament of believe is gonna be rejected cause of the innovation

[neelu]

"he who loves the sahabah is because of his love for me, and he who hates them hates them because of his hatred for me....

And that is the view of the ulema of the ahlus sunnah.

Oh maaaan, if that hadith about accusations of Kufr literally made everyone Kafir who said it..... Half this forum would be considered apostates by now :rolleyes: Obviously I'm not part of ahlus sunnah. A redeeming factor regarding the Shias is that in spite of their misguided stance regarding the Sahaba (ra), by and large they do not reject core aqeedah matters and they cannot reject Ijma Sahaba either because Ali (ra) formed part of the Ijma. Admittedly it is a weak reason, they're sinful for what they say about the Sahaba (ra) it and it's no small matter BUT it doesn't cross the line of becoming clear cut Kufaar as I explained in my previous post.

Did you know that the Shi'a add the phrase "wa A’liyyan Waliullah " "And Ali is the Wali of Allah" to the Shahadah?

Yes and this makes them sinful for innovating a matter but it is not Kufr to say such a thing. It would be Kufr to claim Ali (ra) was a Prophet (naudhobillah) or such a matter of direct contradiction to the Islamic Aqeedah, but although saying Ali (ra) is a Wali is a seemingly far fetched statement, it doesn't fall outside the realms of possibility and doesn't constitute Kufr but rather it makes them Bidatis for innovating a new matter. It is not a Muslims place to claim that certain other Muslims are 'Awliya' because that is a matter of the unseen (that which only Allah [swt] knows) and many Sunnis make mistakes in this matter too.

[Tosh]

But they innovate in the shahada by adding ali into the equation, and as we all know who ever innovates in matters of religion will have it rejected so in this case the very testament of believe is gonna be rejected cause of the innovation

But let the Shi'a tell us that themselves. Let's not ascribe until we hear. If you have heard it from the mouth of a particular shi'a, assign it to just that one. If you hear it from thousands...then maybe, just maybe...you are right.

Many a times I have heard false or misleading beliefs ascribed to a sect who they themselves, the individuals themselves, don't agree to it. What is the point in that? Its basically like when Islam is lied about in some media documentaries, misquoting or quoting out of context the Qur'an. We have a higher purpose than to just demonise people, we actually want to search for the truth.

So I say, if someone has an incorrect belief, find out why it is actually wrong, and explain it to them. Otherwise, we have nothing to claim, each side has only their tradition, and we both just hold onto that.


AllahuAlim, Allah knows best, and Allah is Al Hakim, The Ultimate Judge


ps. neelu, I know what you mean by saying you are not part of ahlus sunnah, as in not being part of another sect. But, ahlus sunnah wal jamah is, by definition, the one correct people of 73 sects. So no-one of the Muslims should claims that they are not of ahlus sunnah wal jamah, it is actually that each sect claims they are ahlus sunnah wal jamah that is the issue.

[neelu]

But let the Shi'a tell us that themselves. Let's not ascribe until we hear. If you have heard it from the mouth of a particular shi'a, assign it to just that one. If you hear it from thousands...then maybe, just maybe...you are right.


I know the Shias in my neighbourhood quite closely and can confirm that they have included this in their shahada, hence what I wrote about it in my previous post.


Many a times I have heard false or misleading beliefs ascribed to a sect who they themselves, the individuals themselves, don't agree to it. What is the point in that? Its basically like when Islam is lied about in some media documentaries, misquoting or quoting out of context the Qur'an. We have a higher purpose than to just demonise people, we actually want to search for the truth.


This is also true. I've seen many false and misleading statements made about Shias too and they're mixed with true statements which causes confusion. As an Ummah who are constantly lied about in the media and misrepresented, Muslims should know better than to do this themselves.


ps. neelu, I know what you mean by saying you are not part of ahlus sunnah, as in not being part of another sect. But, ahlus sunnah wal jamah is, by definition, the one correct people of 73 sects. So no-one of the Muslims should claims that they are not of ahlus sunnah wal jamah, it is actually that each sect claims they are ahlus sunnah wal jamah that is the issue.

Jazakallah khayr for the clarification. I just try to live as a practising Muslim following Quran and Sunnah and avoid most of these labels including "ahlus sunnah wal jammah" as although it means the group who follow the Sunnah but it tends to carry other connotations as well.

[Qasimali]

I am a shia and i dont see what the problem is. We share a lot of beliefs in common. We have almost the same basic beliefs, we only differ in a few areas. One of the biggest problems is that there are a lot of misconceptions about both Suni and Shias which most people take to be true. If we were to all look at each others faith in depth then we would realise that we are all Muslims. After all we all believe in Allah, the Prophets, the day of Judgement and in the holy Quran. We all pray facing the same kiblah and we all take Imam Ali as either the first or the fourth leader of the Muslims after the holy Prophet. We all pray 5 times a day, do wudho, pay zakat, fast during Ramadhan, perform hajj, perform Jihad, etc. Let us not fight over who is what, we share the basic principles which make us Muslims. We should work together and not divide like the enemy wants. I believe that if someone believes in Tawheed, the Prophets, the Quran and the day of Judgement then they are Muslim. Even if someone is not a Muslim we should not treat them differently. The Prophet did not treat the pagans of the Makka any different then the Muslims, he treated them all with respect and dignity. Afterall we are all either brothers in faith or equal in humanity.

P.s. if any body has any questions on the Shia please feel free to ask me at qas121@hotmail.com or visit al-islam.org

[Tosh]

I know the Shias in my neighbourhood quite closely and can confirm that they have included this in their shahada, hence what I wrote about it in my previous post.


Do you know why they do it? Like do they know how it got introduced? Is there even evidence proposed by Shi'a or is it just a given? My problem is that most of the Shi'a I know, are self-proclaimed as 'non-practising.' I got a feeling this has been included in the Shahada to simply be differentiated from Sunnis, but I could quite equally be mistaken.


Jazakallah khayr for the clarification. I just try to live as a practising Muslim following Quran and Sunnah and avoid most of these labels including "ahlus sunnah wal jammah" as although it means the group who follow the Sunnah but it tends to carry other connotations as well.

Thats very admirable, MashaAllah. I would suggest not saying that you are "ahlus sunnah wal jammah," just don't say that you are not. That's because although you know what you mean, others will be thrown and judging by some of the posts here, will misunderstand you. It sounds like you knew that already anyway.


About this poll
This poll is forcing people to make a decision where for most of us the decision needn't be made. It is the Kuffaar who have categories, it shouldn't be the Muslims. However, I guess it is important that this was brought up, because it does seem to be a high priority for some of the Ummah.

AllahuAlim, Allah knows best...

[heaven2002]

isnt it only Allah that can say who is a muslim and who isnt?

[Peacenik]

:nervous: I'm a closet Shia. What happens with me? :(



Do you slander the Sahaba (ra) ?

Do you slander the Wives (ra) of the Prophet (saw) ?

Do you ?

[Abu Mus'ab]

Oh maaaan, if that hadith about accusations of Kufr literally made everyone Kafir who said it..... Half this forum would be considered apostates by now :rolleyes: Obviously I'm not part of ahlus sunnah. A redeeming factor regarding the Shias is that in spite of their misguided stance regarding the Sahaba (ra), by and large they do not reject core aqeedah matters and they cannot reject Ijma Sahaba either because Ali (ra) formed part of the Ijma. Admittedly it is a weak reason, they're sinful for what they say about the Sahaba (ra) it and it's no small matter BUT it doesn't cross the line of becoming clear cut Kufaar as I explained in my previous post.

Do you know what you're saying? :smack: To say you're not from the ahlus sunnah means you're a deviant :rolleyes: all 4 madhabs make up the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah, perhaps you're confusing it with the group called ahlus sunnah wal jamaah?

And yours views that you hold of the shias isn't according to the ahlus sunnah, i assume you're hanafi? if so then read aqeedah tahawiyyah, you'll see what the (hanafi) view is concerning shias.

[Qasimali]

Do you slander the Sahaba (ra) ?

Do you slander the Wives (ra) of the Prophet (saw) ?

Do you ?

The slander on the wives of the Prophet is not allowed in the Shia faith, this is because they are to be shown respect as shown in the Quran in sura 33 verse 6. The Quran also shows that the wives of the Prophets are not infallible and can be disbelievers as shown in the Quran by the example of the wives of Prophets Nuh and Lut in sura 66 verse 10. The slander is directed towards Aisha but Shia's believe that it is better not to curse Aisha, as she is the wife of the Prophet and must be respected, regardless of what took place.

The slander of the three Caliph's is frowned upon. I do not know the exact belief on this, but i do know that Shia's should show respect to the Caliphs as Islam teaches that you should not disrespect the beliefs of others. But some Shia's do practice this as they are unaware of what there belief says about this.

[Abu Mus'ab]

The slander on the wives of the Prophet is not allowed in the Shia faith, this is because they are to be shown respect as shown in the Quran in sura 33 verse 6. The Quran also shows that the wives of the Prophets are not infallible and can be disbelievers as shown in the Quran by the example of the wives of Prophets Nuh and Lut in sura 66 verse 10. The slander is directed towards Aisha but Shia's believe that it is better not to curse Aisha, as she is the wife of the Prophet and must be respected, regardless of what took place.

The slander of the three Caliph's is frowned upon. I do not know the exact belief on this, but i do know that Shia's should show respect to the Caliphs as Islam teaches that you should not disrespect the beliefs of others. But some Shia's do practice this as they are unaware of what there belief says about this.
Yeah i'm sure khomeini didn't know his own beliefs when he cursed them :rolleyes:

[Qasimali]

Yeah i'm sure khomeini didn't know his own beliefs when he cursed them :rolleyes:

I said that I do not know about the cursing of the Caliphs, I know that this is a controversial issue. According to my knowledge there are certain conditions for cursing someone who hurt the Prophet or his family. Some say you can curse openly, others say not in the presence of Sunnis as this is disrespectful to them, others say not to take their names when cursing them.

We should instead of looking for differences, look at our similarities and focus on them. We should unite as a Muslim Ummah and not disunite as this will only help our enemies as is the case in Iraq.

[Abu Mus'ab]

I said that I do not know about the cursing of the Caliphs, I know that this is a controversial issue. According to my knowledge there are certain conditions for cursing someone who hurt the Prophet or his family. Some say you can curse openly, others say not in the presence of Sunnis as this is disrespectful to them, others say not to take their names when cursing them.

We should instead of looking for differences, look at our similarities and focus on them. We should unite as a Muslim Ummah and not disunite as this will only help our enemies as is the case in Iraq.
It doesn't matter if you curse them in your minds only, that too constitutes kufr.

Why don't you look at the similarities between you and the kuffaar? then too you can unite as one with them :rolleyes:

The kufr that shias do take them out of the fold of Islam, and therefore we will never unite with them, if we do that then we might as well unite with the jews too :rolleyes:

[Birds]

is this why the troubles in iraq will never be resolved you just dont like each other.

tis between the people of Iraq to settle things and not some next person tryna 'settle' situations and I must say they're not doing a good job either...so go away

[peace2u]

I don't know, and I don't really care. I have so much work to do on myself, I don't have time to waste on whether they are muslim or not. That is for Allah (swt) to decide. If they are not, then May Allah (swt) guide them, if they are, then May Allah continue to guide them to the straight path. As for me, I don't have the right to say who is true muslim and who isnt. I do have the right to choose who I befriend and trust. I befriend and trust those who stay as close to the quran and sunnah of the messenger as possible.


Peace

[zaki]

Really the answer everyone should of said is Allah knows best, because He is the only one that knows what we are whether we are Muslims by name or a practising Muslim, or not a Muslim at all.

[sisterKhadija]

Well, we are divided, and need to distinguish who is who.

If someone asks me I say I am a Muslim, simple as that. Why would I have to distinguish myself? They are divided, not me.

[Fahad Hasnain]

We are just as Muslim as anyone else.

- We believe in Prophet Muhammad(saw).

- We believe in the Holy Qur'an

- We believe in one God and all his attributes

- We believe in the finality of Prophethood

- We believe that the Holy Qur'an is uncreated and it is preserved

- We fast in Ramadan

- We pray 5 times a day

- He give Zakat

- He go to Hajj

- We fight Jihad

And so on..

Issues such as viewing certain Sahaba differently is not enough for infedility. Much of what some Sunnis claim "bidah" is actually very much a part of Sunni Islam, let alone Shia.

I know that Salafis despise us the most, because they are literalists, but the general Sunni Community, much of their beliefs are in parallel to ours. Things which are claimed to be Bidah are also believed by Sunnis.

I always laugh when people say you're kaffir because you curse Sahabas. I have never in my life ever cursed any Sahaba, neither do i know any Shia that has. I'm sure there is some fool somewhere that likes to curse Sahabas, but that is like .0001% of the Shia population.

[Sulaiman Harun]

yeah you believe in the Oneness of Allah (SWT) thats why you believe that your "12 Imams" have the knowledge of the Unseen <rolleyes>

[Tax-Man]

I have never in my life ever cursed any Sahaba, neither do i know any Shia that has. I'm sure there is some fool somewhere that likes to curse Sahabas, but that is like .0001% of the Shia population. Let me ask you a question what would your reaction be if I suddenly insult your wife or close friends?

[Fahad Hasnain]

yeah you believe in the Oneness of Allah (SWT) thats why you believe that your "12 Imams" have the knowledge of the Unseen <rolleyes>
This is what i'm talking about. You're demonstrating your lack of knowledge of Islam.

Whatever knowledge of the unseen the 12 Imams have is from The Holy Prophet(saw), whatever knowledge of the unseen he has is from Allah(swt).

Allah(swt) does give some knowledge of the unseen to the Prophets and to other whom he deems worthy. This is in the Holy Qur'an.

[Fahad Hasnain]

Let me ask you a question what would your reaction be if I suddenly insult your wife or close friends?
I would be mad. That is why i never curse or insult Sahabas or the wives of the Prophet(saw).

[ImaanSeeker]

We are just as Muslim as anyone else.

- We believe in Prophet Muhammad(saw).

- We believe in the Holy Qur'an

- We believe in one God and all his attributes

- We believe in the finality of Prophethood

- We believe that the Holy Qur'an is uncreated and it is preserved

- We fast in Ramadan

- We pray 5 times a day

- He give Zakat

- He go to Hajj

- We fight Jihad

And so on..

Issues such as viewing certain Sahaba differently is not enough for infedility. Much of what some Sunnis claim "bidah" is actually very much a part of Sunni Islam, let alone Shia.

I know that Salafis despise us the most, because they are literalists, but the general Sunni Community, much of their beliefs are in parallel to ours. Things which are claimed to be Bidah are also believed by Sunnis.

I always laugh when people say you're kaffir because you curse Sahabas. I have never in my life ever cursed any Sahaba, neither do i know any Shia that has. I'm sure there is some fool somewhere that likes to curse Sahabas, but that is like .0001% of the Shia population.

you've listed the similarities.


Now list the differences...

[Fahad Hasnain]

you've listed the similarities.


Now list the differences...

We believe that Imam Ali(as) was the rightful successor to Prophet Muhammad(saws) and subsequent successorship goes through his lineage i.e, the 12 Imams/ Ahlul Bayt. Sunnis believe Abu Bakr was rightfully selected.

We believe in the osculation of Imam Mehdi(as). He is alive, but hidden physically. He still influences the Ummah like the Sun influences the earth while it is hidden behind clouds. Sunnis believe Imam Mehdi(as) is yet to be born.

We are allowed to do Mutah(temporary marriage). Sunnis believe it was allowed at one point but abrogated by the Prophet(saw) later. They say it isn't allowed anymore

Other than that, there are differences in prayer, Sharia and certain other things, but then even the 4 Madhabs have differences here.

i don't think that our differences are enough for us not to call each other Brothers & Sisters. It's unfortunate some people think otherwise.

[Tosh]

Fahad,

Do you know any info which explains the aqeedah well? With the relevant sources. I would be interested to know where the Shi'a are coming from.

When it comes to the first three Khulafah Rashidun, do you just ignore those hadith, and basically the fact that they are relevant to these people makes them untrue? Or do you take them into account, and those things that were good about them, but still dislike them for other reasons? Am I completely wrong in my questions?

Imam mehdi? Does that just mean he isn't the age he is supposed to be yet? When was he "out" (which years?) before occlusion (the only place I have ever heard this word)?

JazakAllah khair, May Allah guide us ALL to the straight path.

[ADZ w3]

We believe that Imam Ali(as) was the rightful successor to Prophet Muhammad(saws) and subsequent successorship goes through his lineage i.e, the 12 Imams/ Ahlul Bayt. Sunnis believe Abu Bakr was rightfully selected.

We believe in the osculation of Imam Mehdi(as). He is alive, but hidden physically. He still influences the Ummah like the Sun influences the earth while it is hidden behind clouds. Sunnis believe Imam Mehdi(as) is yet to be born.

We are allowed to do Mutah(temporary marriage). Sunnis believe it was allowed at one point but abrogated by the Prophet(saw) later. They say it isn't allowed anymore

Other than that, there are differences in prayer, Sharia and certain other things, but then even the 4 Madhabs have differences here.

i don't think that our differences are enough for us not to call each other Brothers & Sisters. It's unfortunate some people think otherwise.

:salams

ok, so the Qdr of ALLAH is wrong? if u believe abu bakr..Ra whos emaan out weigh'z the emaan of the whole UMMAH! hence u u do not belive in the pillar of emaan regarding to the Qdr of allah..therefore as in hadeeth, if u stduy the compilation of bukari and muslim..regaridng emaan compiled by shaike yayah..emaan contains islam and islam contains emaan, therefore without eman there is no islam and with out islam there is no emaan...
so u can conclude if a person who differs from the belife in Qdr or the right of it, then he lack the fundmentals of emaan hence islam...

if u belive he is alive, ur aqeedah is wrong hence u do not follow the fundamental of islam..

Mutah is forbidden...the hadeeth is narrated by ALI RA...im sure ur not saying ALI ra lied???

the 4 madhabs only have difference in FIQ there aqeedah was the same, the imams learned and wrote what reached them...they did not hve the facilties to open books and hve a comprehensive collection of sahih hadeeth..there the differences alie inprayer r of actions whihc there are hadeeth in different levels description, like in bukari u hve one whihc does not describe the raising the hands after rukoo or the third rakah...just the bowing and rasing etc..but then u find a more descriptive one whihc does, the difference is during the time of the imams it is not wise to think that they had facilites of Vast collections of sahih hadeeth...but they r all right in thier opinions based upon there knoldge at there time and the evidance they had...May allah swt hve mercy upon all of them...

there is islam ..whihc is clear and then there are many other things whihc are said to be from islam...
do not get me wrong it is said by the ulamah there are 1/2 sects from the shia who hve very similar but still different aspects but are still called muslim, but there are very rare to find and allah knows best if they exsist still..

EVERYTHING CORRECT i Said was from allah everything else was from my own mistakes and the shaytaan...

i hve no brother or sister in islam whom dislikes certain companion or who dislike the mother of the believers ..or who call out upon others then allah and commit shirk with allah swt as the wajal,
because these are acts of Kufr..i am not calling those people who ignoranlty follow somthing Kafirs but for those who are shown the truth and then still continue, as it is stated in the books of our ulamah..these people like the scolars of the shia..r not muslim!! so any muslim actually and any shia wud not call each other brothers or ssiters if they knew the huge differances and the cursing of the companions and mother of the beleivers by one of the sects (shia) and the loving respect for them (muslims) have.

w.salam

[xris]

tis between the people of Iraq to settle things and not some next person tryna 'settle' situations and I must say they're not doing a good job either...so go awayi never said it was other peoples problem.im just observing this post and relating it to the hatred manifesting itself in iraq.i am allowed an opinion wether you like it or not.

[zaki]

We should only call ourselves Muslims, where does it say in the Quran that we should call ourselves this and that, it says in the Quran:

"Those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything."
(Surah Al-An'am (6:159))

So it shows that the Prophet Muhammad was ONLY a Muslim not anything else.

[sajid]

Thread Closed