Is Saudi Arabia a Muslim Country Or And Kufaar Country??

[Asma.Haddad]

Assalamu Alaykum

Is Saudi Arabia a Muslim Country Or A Kufaar Country??.. :)

Wassalamu Alaykum

[meer]

Assalamu Alaykum

Is Saudi Arabia a Muslim Country Or A Kufaar Country??.. :)

Wassalamu Alaykum

Sorry But your question is very typical....

yup! Saudi Arabia is a muslim Country..(Alhamdullha) OR you can say land of Our Beloved Rasool Hazarat Mohammed (S.A.W) and land of Islam,or Muslims..:up:

[ammarcool]

Its an islamic country controlled by a puppet American regiment!

when compared with the current status Its with just a NAME BOARD as ISLAMIC STATE not with its ACTIONS.

[Abdulah]

Saudi Arabia is an Islamic country but is heavily influenced by the USA.

[Supernova Nebula]

Assalamu Alaykum

Is Saudi Arabia a Muslim Country Or A Kufaar Country??.. :)

Wassalamu Alaykum

are u making takfir?

[insomniac]

Walaikumsalaam,

yo sis, I can't answer that question as it's ambiguous, it needs editing

[Asma.Haddad]

No i am not making takfir i am just seeing ur opinions thats all.. :)

[insomniac]

No i am not making takfir i am just seeing ur opinions thats all.. :)

ok sis, but if I answer it still looks like I'm making takfir because as I said the question is ambiguous :confused:

btw yes I think it's a muslim country

no I don't think it's a kuffar country

[meer]

No i am not making takfir i am just seeing ur opinions thats all.. :)

Asma you'r Question is not correct...:hidban: :hidban:

[alld]

Assalamu Alaykum

Is Saudi Arabia a Muslim Country Or A Kufaar Country??.. :)

Wassalamu Alaykum

aww

actually a good question for asking .
we are supposed to be a part of Khilafah .
Nationalism is not a basis for khilafah .

[Al-Nasser]

Similar Poll

Turkey (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42943)

[<-Deen uL Haq->]

its not run by pious people i think

[urban_rose]

Saudi Arabia is an Islamic country but is heavily influenced by the USA.

:up: id go with that definition

[Salman Al-Farsi]

If the question was whether Saudi is dar al-Islaam or dar al-kufr? It is dar al kufr because lands are recognised by the law they implement and to whome the soverignty belongs to, in the case of saudi the authoirty belongs to the King whereas soverignty and superemacy belongs to the US. Therefore it is dar al-kufr. Dar alIslam is where authority belongs to the poeple, soverignty belongs to Allah Azz wa jal and supermacy is for the shari'ah.In normal speak, it is NOT correct to call any of the countries of the world Islamic because they are NOT islamized, rather there are lands where Muslims are in majority therfore we call them Muslim countries. In this sense Saudi is a Muslim country, just like Pakistan, Turkey, or Egypt.

[Abu Mus'ab]

If the question was whether Saudi is dar al-Islaam or dar al-kufr? It is dar al kufr because lands are recognised by the law they implement and to whome the soverignty belongs to, in the case of saudi the authoirty belongs to the King whereas soverignty and superemacy belongs to the US. Therefore it is dar al-kufr. Dar alIslam is where authority belongs to the poeple, soverignty belongs to Allah Azz wa jal and supermacy is for the shari'ah.In normal speak, it is NOT correct to call any of the countries of the world Islamic because they are NOT islamized, rather there are lands where Muslims are in majority therfore we call them Muslim countries. In this sense Saudi is a Muslim country, just like Pakistan, Turkey, or Egypt.
:up:

[YesilkoyBoy]

How do you answer a question "yes/no" when it is phrased "and/or?"

[Al-Fateh]

who ever aids, the kuffar on Muslims is one of them

English Muhsin Khan: [60:1]
O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists, etc.) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth (i.e. Islamic Monotheism, this Quran, and Muhammad SAW), and have driven out the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) and yourselves (from your homeland) because you believe in Allah your Lord! If you have come forth to strive in My Cause and to seek My Good Pleasure, (then take not these disbelievers and polytheists, etc., as your friends). You show friendship to them in secret, while I am All-Aware of what you conceal and what you reveal. And whosoever of you (Muslims) does that, then indeed he has gone (far) astray, (away) from the Straight Path.


English Muhsin Khan: [60:9]
It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allah forbids you to befriend them. And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Zalimun (wrong-doers those who disobey Allah).

[Khadija222333]

Saudi Arabia is an Islamic country but is heavily influenced by the USA.


:up:

[Zaid the Great]

The rulers are kafir...

The people are muslim...

[Al-Fateh]

The rulers are kafir...

The people are muslim...

some agree with the royalty decisions

[Zaid the Great]

some agree with the royalty decisions

most people don't.

most people reject the name saudi arabia

[Ottoman]

@ everybody:

WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF A MUSLIM COUNTRY?

(give authentic sources where available inshaa-Allah)

[Al-Fateh]

i agree..u are right

[Ottoman]

Its an islamic country controlled by a puppet American regiment!

when compared with the current status Its with just a NAME BOARD as ISLAMIC STATE not with its ACTIONS.
in fact, most people living in that country don't even know their government is a British installed puppet american government (just as in turkey).

[alld]

@ everybody:

WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF A MUSLIM COUNTRY?

(give authentic sources where available inshaa-Allah)

there can't be practically any muslim country . If it is it is got to be khilafah .

[Joha]

there can't be practically any muslim country . If it is it is got to be khilafah .
Why couldn't there be? What if in a Muslim country, a government were to come into power that would implement Islamic law, and rule and govern according to the Qur'an and Sunnah (and hence assign sovereignty to Allah swt). Would that not be an Islamic Country?

[alld]

Why couldn't there be? What if in a Muslim country, a government were to come into power that would implement Islamic law, and rule and govern according to the Qur'an and Sunnah (and hence assign sovereignty to Allah swt). Would that not be an Islamic Country?

that could be a starting piont of khilafah

[awwabah]

this is a weird poll, no and yes to what?

for the record, saudi arabia is a Muslim country. You can always tell when the fitra of the people is islamically based, when the current politics is religiously minded, then I would say it was a muslim country.

People are usually very much an image of their government, the people are religious, the majority. Those who arent religious, those who are immoral are in the great minority. Faahisha which is sin is not publicly broadcast, it as to be in hiding, smuggled in. When sin is not propagated publicly, then the morals of the people are still good. Have I said that the people are the image of the government?

Let me see, when I was in hajj some years back I thought now all this money expended for the comfort of the hajeej(plural of hajji) what if, just a stray thought-what if the Egyptian government were in place of the Saudi government? (I'm Egyptian) You know that thought made me make a prayer in gratitude alhamdulilaah that the Saudi government is in control of hajj, alhamdulilaah and alhamdulilaah again.

Let's talk of other issues. I'm going to compare arab countries. Now in Saudi they have Quran taught in mosques after school, it's done for free or for a very small sum. The kids really are taught Quran, like they actually finish chapters!! Not verses. With correct inunciation.

Lets get back to Syria and Egypt. You may find Quran taught after school, now how many nine year olds have memorised seven or eight chapters of the Quran at that age? How many have memorised the Quran before they reach the age of ten? We will walk away from this embarrasing predicament because the vast majority of religiously minded families are delighted when their kids actually have three or four chapters by heart by the age of ten.

Arabic countries where arabic is the main language, and the arabic that is recited for Quran leaves much to be desired.

So, when some friends of mine talked of returning to Syria they were worried, their kids had almost completed half the Quran, children at the age of six and eight, they wondered how they would fare in Syria. The current situation in Egypt is very similar.

Lets not take the western cry folks, the US has its eye on Saudi these days, lets face it, it's the last of the really islamic countries, so the damning finger is pointed and we follow suit? Do you know that there were injustices in just about every single khilafah after the prophet's death? Humans are not perfect. Humans make mistakes. DUring the companions times the faith of people was extremely high and there was competitive aspiration to reach perfection. At a time when the norm is imperfection, when immorality is preached on every single media pulpit, I should think we could lay off the remaining countries that aspire to religion.


One final word, its perfectly true that if you want an image of the people look at the government. If you want to talk about US minded countries which country is NOt guilty of selling Iraq to the US? We are all guilty. Not the governments, the people.

Lets make a list of all the people here, or in our own communities who have stopped boycotting, after all thats the only weapon we the people own, only; truth to tell, we dont use it do we? So we shouldnt be pointing fingers should we?

[neelu]

Saudi Arabia, like the rest of the world currently is Dar al Kufr, but the vast majority of it's inhabitants are Muslim. It can be called a Muslim country due to this but it is certainly NOT an "Islamic" country.

[Makki]

the question makes no sense, the structure of it is like: whats your favourite colour, red or yellow? then provide the poll options yes and no....

no sense.....

[uwsapo]

some agree with the royalty decisions

Rules are kuffars? No. Cutting hands for robbery. Is that a rule of kuffar?

[Le Croyant]

They don't do that anymore... our house got robbed in 2001. The investigators told us that there has been high rise in theft since the govt. got rid of the hand chopping law.

[Zaid the Great]

Rules are kuffars? No. Cutting hands for robbery. Is that a rule of kuffar?

that's not done anymore:( 'because of human rights'... Utter stupidity...

[al faqeer]

If the question was whether Saudi is dar al-Islaam or dar al-kufr? It is dar al kufr because lands are recognised by the law they implement and to whome the soverignty belongs to, in the case of saudi the authoirty belongs to the King whereas soverignty and superemacy belongs to the US. Therefore it is dar al-kufr. Dar alIslam is where authority belongs to the poeple, soverignty belongs to Allah Azz wa jal and supermacy is for the shari'ah.In normal speak, it is NOT correct to call any of the countries of the world Islamic because they are NOT islamized, rather there are lands where Muslims are in majority therfore we call them Muslim countries. In this sense Saudi is a Muslim country, just like Pakistan, Turkey, or Egypt.

Are you calling the place the Houses the Two Holy Masjids and holiest Cities on earth Darul Kufr :) ?

You are Serious Salman ?

Be careful what you speak please , 1 word you dont know you even said Could keep you falling down their for 70 autumns :)

Its Funny That you Guys living In minority Muslim Countries want to pass Judgment on Islamic Countries and Its Governments .

If I were you I would start with Myself and My Womenfolk and My teenagers etc. and let them be better muslims then waste my breath calling KSA daarul Kufr :D

Its a Joke actually .

[Joha]

Are you calling the place the Houses the Two Holy Masjids and holiest Cities on earth Darul Kufr :) ?

You are Serious Salman ?

Be careful what you speak please , 1 word you dont know you even said Could keep you falling down their for 70 autumns :)

Its Funny That you Guys living In minority Muslim Countries want to pass Judgment on Islamic Countries and Its Governments .

If I were you I would start with Myself and My Womenfolk and My teenagers etc. and let them be better muslims then waste my breath calling KSA daarul Kufr :D

Its a Joke actually .

For once Faqeeri I agree with you, but I'm surprised at you. You, a defender of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Just for the record, it's okay to pass judgement on a government, that is a right regardless of where you live. I don't know about calling it Darul Kufr, but it definitely isn't an Islamic Government (a Muslim one maybe).

Actually if you look carefully, calling Saudi Arabia darul kufr isn't the same as calling the place of the two holy mosques darul kufr. There's a difference...now if you were to call the Arabian Peninsula darul kufr, then that would include what you say.

[al faqeer]

For once Faqeeri I agree with you, but I'm surprised at you. You, a defender of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Just for the record, it's okay to pass judgement on a government, that is a right regardless of where you live. I don't know about calling it Darul Kufr, but it definitely isn't an Islamic Government (a Muslim one maybe).

Actually if you look carefully, calling Saudi Arabia darul kufr isn't the same as calling the place of the two holy mosques darul kufr. There's a difference...now if you were to call the Arabian Peninsula darul kufr, then that would include what you say.

In what Country are the Cities of Makkah and Madeenah ?

[Joha]

In what Country are the Cities of Makkah and Madeenah ?

whatever, I take it that's a rhetorical question.

But, calling a government and a country 'kafir' is very different to calling it's people kafir.

It would be the same if we were dealing with a democracy, unfortunately the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia isn't one.

[al faqeer]

whatever, I take it that's a rhetorical question.

But, calling a government and a country 'kafir' is very different to calling it's people kafir.

It would be the same if we were dealing with a democracy, unfortunately the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia isn't one.

He didnt only Call the Government Kaafir he used the Word Daarul Kufr or the House of Blasphemy .

So how can we apply such a word to the country that houses Makkah and madeenah .

[Joha]

He didnt only Call the Government Kaafir he used the Word Daarul Kufr or the House of Blasphemy .

So how can we apply such a word to the country that houses Makkah and madeenah .

we know what he meant, he applied it to the government.

[Zaid the Great]

People of Arabia are Muslim.
Goverment of Arabia is kaafir.

The End.

[al faqeer]

People of Arabia are Muslim.
Goverment of Arabia is kaafir.

The End.

Kaafir according to who ? :D Takfeeris ?

[sapphire_blue]

People of Arabia are Muslim.
Goverment of Arabia is kaafir.

The End.


It's not right for you to say this imo.

If they have belief in the oneness of Allah SWT and believe Muhammad SAW was the last Prophet then one cannot label them a kaafir even if one thinks/knows of any sin they have committed.

It is not for us to judge.

[Zaid the Great]

It's not right for you to say this imo.

If they have belief in the oneness of Allah SWT and believe Muhammad SAW was the last Prophet then one cannot label them a kaafir even if one thinks/knows of any sin they have committed.

It is not for us to judge.

they have commited al-kufr al-buwaah.....

[sapphire_blue]

Brother Zaid, what is the advantage of labelling and calling people kaafir when they call and regard themselves as muslims?

[al faqeer]

they have commited al-kufr al-buwaah.....

They bear witness that Allah is one and theat mu7ammad PBUH is his SWT messenger .

IF you call them kaafir it might just backfire .

[stephenoskie]

erm stupid question

I answered no to the Kaafar part ?

some people just ask dumb question and waste our time

[Skavau]

They're a total insult to human rights in almost every way. I certainly hope most of you don't consider them an idealism of Islamic Law.

[YesilkoyBoy]

The poll actually makes no sense whatsoever. How can you answer yes/no to a question that is either/or?

[Zaid the Great]

The poll actually makes no sense whatsoever. How can you answer yes/no to a question that is either/or?

That's what I was thinking....

[UZMA KHALID]

salam

muslim country


bye

[Hamza Momand]

now whats this
such kind of threads should b deleted

[Lost_Princess]

sorry but i hate saudi arabia its probably the most hypocritcal country ever especially with the rules they have against the women and im sorry if i insult or upset anyone but the country is worse than westernized society's and they make islam look so bad like omg and i dont consider it to be a muslim country because the laws are not based on our religon but the way some man prefers his women to be :(:(

im seriously sorry if i did insult anyone here but thtas the way i feel about the country so dont hold this against it just really gets to me :)

[Abandoned-Mind]

Muslim People, Taghoot Government, Nice drifters.

[al faqeer]

sorry but i hate saudi arabia its probably the most hypocritcal country ever especially with the rules they have against the women and im sorry if i insult or upset anyone but the country is worse than westernized society's and they make islam look so bad like omg and i dont consider it to be a muslim country because the laws are not based on our religon but the way some man prefers his women to be :(:(

im seriously sorry if i did insult anyone here but thtas the way i feel about the country so dont hold this against it just really gets to me :)

HAve you been there or lived there :) ?

[Asmara]

From what I've heard from people who have been to Saudi Arabia, and people who live there, Saudis behave in very unislamic ways. They feel superior to non-Saudis and treat them terribly. I've also heard about many other really really disgusting things that have become prevalent there, despite it being a Muslim country. The fact is that doing unislamic things or commiting major sins does not render you a kafir, if you believe in Allah, the prophet (saw) and the last day.

[THE PATH 2]

Assalamu Alaykum

Is Saudi Arabia a Muslim Country Or A Kufaar Country??.. :)

Wassalamu Alaykum

ITS A WEAK MUSLIM COUNTRY

[al faqeer]

From what I've heard from people who have been to Saudi Arabia, and people who live there, Saudis behave in very unislamic ways. They feel superior to non-Saudis and treat them terribly. I've also heard about many other really really disgusting things that have become prevalent there, despite it being a Muslim country. The fact is that doing unislamic things or commiting major sins does not render you a kafir, if you believe in Allah, the prophet (saw) and the last day.

So ? which Country in the world 2 day is free from major sins ? Arent saudis Humans ?

Why do they have to be saints ?

[BARAA IBN MALIK]

Salamalaykum Brothers And Sisters

If I Am Wrong Correct Me,
Our Beloved Prophet (saw) Said That We Should Take People As They Act.

If Someones Acts Like A Muslim He Is A Muslim Only Allah Knows What Is Inside His Heart, So We Have No Right To Make Judgement.
But If A Muslim Country Is Controlled By Kuffar It Is Still Our Country We Have To Regain Control.

Jazakumulahu Khairan Jazaa

[Asmara]

So ? which Country in the world 2 day is free from major sins ? Arent saudis Humans ?

Why do they have to be saints ?

There aren't any Muslim countries that are free of problems. I just don't see how people who live in a holy land such as Makkah can treat pilgrims badly or behave immorally. Some Muslims living in the West, with a lot of fitnah around them manage to be better Muslims than them. Strange, but alhamdulillah.
No-one is perfect but you have to fear Allah and treat people kindly, especially your Muslim brothers and sisters.

[Asmara]

Salamalaykum Brothers And Sisters

If I Am Wrong Correct Me,
Our Beloved Prophet (saw) Said That We Should Take People As They Act.

If Someones Acts Like A Muslim He Is A Muslim Only Allah Knows What Is Inside His Heart, So We Have No Right To Make Judgement.
But If A Muslim Country Is Controlled By Kuffar It Is Still Our Country We Have To Regain Control.

Jazakumulahu Khairan Jazaa


:up: Jazakallah khair. Exactly. We have to judge people by their actions, because it is a reflection of what is in their hearts, even though we do not see their hearts.

[sis_niqabi]

salam

saudi arabia has it's faults. however the saudi is one of the few countries which actually enforces some shariah law. they forbid open celebrations of non-muslim events and holidays. they ban alcohol. they ban pork. they give the fornicator their lashes. thief has his hands cut off. they keep the men and women seperated. women are told to cover up. they make the men go to prayer in the masjid.they stop everything for the prayer.


does this sound like kuffr to you?

[alld]

s.arabia is most close to be called a muslim country. there is not any other country that can be called a muslim country .
by no standards it can be called a kuffar country .

[Abu Mus'ab]

Muslim People, Taghoot Government, Nice drifters.
:rotfl:

I agree :up:

[sis_niqabi]

s.arabia is most close to be called a muslim country. there is not any other country that can be called a muslim country .
by no standards it can be called a kuffar country .

tell that to the people making unjustified takfeer on saudi government.

[alld]

tell that to the people making unjustified takfeer on saudi government.

well those people are rightly dreaming of khilafah state . I said that they s.arabia is best muslim country with respect to implementation of sharia laws

[Skavau]

salam

saudi arabia has it's faults. however the saudi is one of the few countries which actually enforces some shariah law. they forbid open celebrations of non-muslim events and holidays. they ban alcohol. they ban pork. they give the fornicator their lashes. thief has his hands cut off. they keep the men and women seperated. women are told to cover up. they make the men go to prayer in the masjid.they stop everything for the prayer.


does this sound like kuffr to you?

Sounds like an attempt at theocratic totalitarianism to me.

[Hamza Momand]

del

[Hamza Momand]

del

[Hamza Momand]

del
sorry
problem wid net

[Hamza Momand]

del

[Hamza Momand]

sorry but i hate saudi arabia its probably the most hypocritcal country ever especially with the rules they have against the women and im sorry if i insult or upset anyone but the country is worse than westernized society's and they make islam look so bad like omg and i dont consider it to be a muslim country because the laws are not based on our religon but the way some man prefers his women to be :(:(

im seriously sorry if i did insult anyone here but thtas the way i feel about the country so dont hold this against it just really gets to me :)
assalam o alaikum
so wat do u mean from women rights
what kind of rights and freedom.
thanks

[al faqeer]

well those people are rightly dreaming of khilafah state . I said that they s.arabia is best muslim country with respect to implementation of sharia laws

You mean Day dreaming ? :D

[al faqeer]

There aren't any Muslim countries that are free of problems. I just don't see how people who live in a holy land such as Makkah can treat pilgrims badly or behave immorally. Some Muslims living in the West, with a lot of fitnah around them manage to be better Muslims than them. Strange, but alhamdulillah.
No-one is perfect but you have to fear Allah and treat people kindly, especially your Muslim brothers and sisters.

You dont see ? People are people never mind where they are , Who said that people In mAkkah and Madeenah and surroundings are all saints ? is it in the Quran or Sunnah ?

Where did they treat Pilgrims badly ? have you ever been on Hajj ? I work In the hajj every year sister , If we even swear a Haaji and we get reported we can be jailed for 1 year , Get your hearsay facts straight .

Shukran

[Um Abdullah]

1_ This is a dumb and sick thread, such questions shouldnt' be asked, unless the person belives majority of the people in the country are not Muslim.
It is a Muslim country meaning majority of its people are Muslim.
That is different than asking if it is an Islamic state.


2_ Saying that Saudi Arabia is dar al kufr is very very sick.
saying that would make every Muslim in KSA living in a kafir country and should leave it and do hijrah to dar al Islam, and that they are sinning by staying in Saudi Arabia
also would make Makkah and Madinah part of darul kufr, so the most holy places on earth are from darul kufr !!!!!!!

also, if saudi Arabia is darul kufr, then what would it make all the other Muslim countries, with corrupt rulers, like Jordan, Egypt, Morrocco, Pakistan ..etc., all darul kufr?
so where should all the Muslims go?
find an isolated island and try to fit a billion Muslims there.

There is no benefit in such threads, and curiousity is not an excuse to ask such questions about a country with vast majority Muslim, and that has the holiest cities in Islam.

[alld]

You mean Day dreaming ? :D

No fakeer not like that .

[Joha]

You dont see ? People are people never mind where they are , Who said that people In mAkkah and Madeenah and surroundings are all saints ? is it in the Quran or Sunnah ?

Where did they treat Pilgrims badly ? have you ever been on Hajj ? I work In the hajj every year sister , If we even swear a Haaji and we get reported we can be jailed for 1 year , Get your hearsay facts straight .

Shukran

:up:. That's true, Saudi Arabia deserves great credit for the way they've managed the Haramain. Whatever their faults, they've spared no expense, monetary or political in keeping the Haramain running smoothly.

There is however an endemic problem of racism amongst Saudis (not Saudi Arabia as such), more so than in many other countries. But it'll wear off, bear in mind that it is a very young nation, still developing, still adapting. It takes time to mould and reform such a society, and I think the government is going about it in the right way.

[Um Abdullah]

There is however an endemic problem of racism amongst Saudis (not Saudi Arabia as such), more so than in many other countries. But it'll wear off, bear in mind that it is a very young nation, still developing, still adapting. It takes time to mould and reform such a society, and I think the government is going about it in the right way.

I dont' agree, it seems like that because Saudi Arabia is the most country being attack on the internet.
if people went to UAE, and other gulf countries you will find a lot of racism there too.
in my home country which is an Arab non Gulf country, there is so much nationalism, it sickness me, but that is due to ignorance and people being away from deen, same in Saudi, the ones who usually have kibr and nationalism are ones who are not practicing and have jahiliyyah in them.
you will find that everywhere, but people only hear mostly about Saudi Arabia, and dont' mention about other countries, when same thing is found there too, especially the sinning in open is even worse outside of Saudi Arabia, but people don't talk much about that, mostly picking on one country.

[Asmara]

You dont see ? People are people never mind where they are , Who said that people In mAkkah and Madeenah and surroundings are all saints ? is it in the Quran or Sunnah ?

Where did they treat Pilgrims badly ? have you ever been on Hajj ? I work In the hajj every year sister , If we even swear a Haaji and we get reported we can be jailed for 1 year , Get your hearsay facts straight .

Shukran

So why wasn't the person who called a man "Abd" (slave) because of his dark complexion not jailed for a year? :rolleyes: It's not even about skin colour. It's about bigotry and nationalism, because even pale, non-Saudis were looked down upon in Saudi Arabia. It's not hearsay when people who have actually gone to Hajj/Umrah tell you about their experiences.

I would never ever goes as far as to say that Saudi Arabia is a kafir country because that's not true, but I guess I expect better of Saudi Arabia because it is where the two holy cities are located. Of course no-one is perfect but I would like to think that if I had the privillege of living in either Makkah or Madinah, that I'd be one of the best Muslims in the world. Muslims who live in the West can relate to what I'm saying.

I'm sorry if I offended you brother. I didn't mean to, I was just trying to give my perspective on things, whether right or wrong allahu a3lam.

[Abandoned-Mind]

From 'A Verdict on the Saudi Regime' :

"..[e] It is a regime that does not hide its clear allegiance to the enemies of the Ummah in any battle that the enemy wages against the Ummah, and against Islam and the Muslims... Here is America, waging a vicious war against Islam and the Muslims, claiming that it is fighting "terrorism"... invading and occupying the Muslim lands... yet along with that it receives nothing from the Saudi regime except for concessions, and all types of support and aid... until it has even prevented the Muslims from even making Du'a' against America in their Masajid! And the news of the American military bases in the Arabian Peninsula is not far off from us!

[f] It is a regime that has abolished Jihad in the Way of Allah, indeed erased it from its vocabulary and thinking, it has waged war against its people and hunted them down, imprisoned their 'Ulama', and put together an army that has no other purpose but to protect the Saudi throne and the Saudi regime!

[g] The Saudi regime has entered into treaties, alliances, constitutions and organisations stemming from the United Nations and others... all of which oppose and contradict the Shari'ah of Allah (ta'ala)..."

Click here to view it in full : http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1949469 (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1949469)

[Zaid the Great]

Where did they treat Pilgrims badly ? have you ever been on Hajj ? I work In the hajj every year sister , If we even swear a Haaji and we get reported we can be jailed for 1 year , Get your hearsay facts straight .

Shukran

pfffffffffffffft:rotfl:

u must be jokin maan :rotfl:

[al faqeer]

So why wasn't the person who called a man "Abd" (slave) because of his dark complexion not jailed for a year? :rolleyes: It's not even about skin colour. It's about bigotry and nationalism, because even pale, non-Saudis were looked down upon in Saudi Arabia. It's not hearsay when people who have actually gone to Hajj/Umrah tell you about their experiences.

I would never ever goes as far as to say that Saudi Arabia is a kafir country because that's not true, but I guess I expect better of Saudi Arabia because it is where the two holy cities are located. Of course no-one is perfect but I would like to think that if I had the privillege of living in either Makkah or Madinah, that I'd be one of the best Muslims in the world. Muslims who live in the West can relate to what I'm saying.

I'm sorry if I offended you brother. I didn't mean to, I was just trying to give my perspective on things, whether right or wrong allahu a3lam.

Was it reported ?

Did the recipient goto the authorities ? It is hearsay if you havent been there and believe Bologna sold to you .

There is bigotary in every nation of the world , stop singling out only Saudi Arabia please .

Muslims In THe west should look at themselves and their own social diseases and pray for their Kids and Grand kids , instead of worrying about People here In the ME .

Salam

[al faqeer]

pfffffffffffffft:rotfl:

u must be jokin maan :rotfl:

No I am not a Takfeeri :D

[Asmara]

Was it reported ?

Did the recipient goto the authorities ? It is hearsay if you havent been there and believe Bologna sold to you .

There is bigotary in every nation of the world , stop singling out only Saudi Arabia please .

Muslims In THe west should look at themselves and their own social diseases and pray for their Kids and Grand kids , instead of worrying about People here In the ME .

Salam

Oh so now you're passing judgement on Muslims in the West? A little hypocritical wouldn't you say? There are probably more social diseases amongst Muslims in Muslim countries than amongst Muslims in the West.
I've been to plenty of Muslim countries and let me tell you that many social diseases which are not rife here are rife there.

Trust me I'm not worried about Muslims in the ME. I have many other things on my mind daily.

[Abandoned-Mind]

An Account of Torture in the Saudi Prisons by the Saudi Regime, Imprisoners of the 'Ulema and Mujahideen.


http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1949559

[THE PATH 2]

An Account of Torture in the Saudi Prisons by the Saudi Regime, Imprisoners of the 'Ulema and Mujahideen.


http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1949559

any legal/halal solutions?..instead of just constant moaning and critique

[Abandoned-Mind]

any legal/halal solutions?..instead of just constant moaning and critique

Nothing easy that will allow you to stay at home behind your pc.

Just expose them if nothing else. Don't stay silent on oppression.

[sis_niqabi]

:up:. That's true, Saudi Arabia deserves great credit for the way they've managed the Haramain. Whatever their faults, they've spared no expense, monetary or political in keeping the Haramain running smoothly.

There is however an endemic problem of racism amongst Saudis (not Saudi Arabia as such), more so than in many other countries. But it'll wear off, bear in mind that it is a very young nation, still developing, still adapting. It takes time to mould and reform such a society, and I think the government is going about it in the right way.

i think racism is prevalent not just in Saudi Arabia but generally in the whole Arab world. i have heard so many racial slurs in the mid east that i have never heard anywhere else. the obsession with white skin is overboard. when they hire foreigners from the west they want white skin. there is even nationalism/racism among the different Arab countries.

having said that. i think the younger generation of Arabs are much less racist than their parents/grandparents. and mashallah some of the nicest people i have met were arabs.

all im saying is just don't point the finger at saudi for racism.

[Um Abdullah]

So why wasn't the person who called a man "Abd" (slave) because of his dark complexion not jailed for a year? :rolleyes: It's not even about skin colour. It's about bigotry and nationalism, because even pale, non-Saudis were looked down upon in Saudi Arabia. It's not hearsay when people who have actually gone to Hajj/Umrah tell you about their experiences.
excuse me sister
is there any country where a person who curses at someone else goes to jail for it let alone for a whole year?
this nationalism is EVERYWHERE, there are BAD Muslims EVERYWHERE, you will not find one place on earth, where ALL of its people are good.
because they are human.
Even at the time of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, sins were commited, like adultry, and the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam was with them and it was in Madinah, but they repented from it
so if that happened during the time of the Prophet in holy city, why are you surprised that major sins happen over thousand years after the death fo the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam in holy cities?

Just remember that people living in Makkah and Madinah are humans, and that shaytan also whispers to them, then insha Allah you won't have a hard time swollowing it.
But of course it will make their sin double, because it is in holy city, so they cause more harm to themselves than others.

also, not all who live in Makkah are Saudi, many are not Saudi, and the ones who commit sins there can be from both groups, saudis and non Saudis.


I would never ever goes as far as to say that Saudi Arabia is a kafir country because that's not true, but I guess I expect better of Saudi Arabia because it is where the two holy cities are located. Of course no-one is perfect but I would like to think that if I had the privillege of living in either Makkah or Madinah, that I'd be one of the best Muslims in the world. Muslims who live in the West can relate to what I'm saying.


actually sister, the place isn't really what makes you become a better Muslim, you might think so, but your still human where your there and shaytan might even whisper to you more to commit sin there even small ones which no one is free from, since the sin is double in that place.
So there, you have to be extra careful not to commit sin, even small ones.

[Asmara]

i think racism is prevalent not just in Saudi Arabia but generally in the whole Arab world. i have heard so many racial slurs in the mid east that i have never heard anywhere else. the obsession with white skin is overboard. when they hire foreigners from the west they want white skin. there is even nationalism/racism among the different Arab countries.

having said that. i think the younger generation of Arabs are much less racist than their parents/grandparents. and mashallah some of the nicest people i have met were arabs.

all im saying is just don't point the finger at saudi for racism.

I agree with you. There are good and bad people everywhere. Racism does exist evrywhere-even in my home country suprisingly. However it is not good to deny the problems that exist and to sweep them under the carpet. Saudi Arabia is no Utopia, but it's not a kafir country either, needless to say.

[Asmara]

excuse me sister
is there any country where a person who curses at someone else goes to jail for it let alone for a whole year?
this nationalism is EVERYWHERE, there are BAD Muslims EVERYWHERE, you will not find one place on earth, where ALL of its people are good.
because they are human.
Even at the time of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, sins were commited, like adultry, and the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam was with them and it was in Madinah, but they repented from it
so if that happened during the time of the Prophet in holy city, why are you surprised that major sins happen over thousand years after the death fo the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam in holy cities?

Just remember that people living in Makkah and Madinah are humans, and that shaytan also whispers to them, then insha Allah you won't have a hard time swollowing it.
But of course it will make their sin double, because it is in holy city, so they cause more harm to themselves than others.

also, not all who live in Makkah are Saudi, many are not Saudi, and the ones who commit sins there can be from both groups, saudis and non Saudis.







actually sister, the place isn't really what makes you become a better Muslim, you might think so, but your still human where your there and shaytan might even whisper to you more to commit sin there even small ones which no one is free from, since the sin is double in that place.
So there, you have to be extra careful not to commit sin, even small ones.

I really doubt that a Saudi would go to prison, in his own country, for swearing at a foreigner.

It is easier to practise your religion in some places than others. That's my opinion. I didn't say that the people who live in Makkah and Madinah should be superhuman or saints.

[alld]

saudia airlines takes off with Dua Safar alhamdulilah . can you name another one ?

[Asmara]

saudia airlines takes off with Dua Safar alhamdulilah . can you name another one ?

Yemenia airlines

[Joha]

i think racism is prevalent not just in Saudi Arabia but generally in the whole Arab world. i have heard so many racial slurs in the mid east that i have never heard anywhere else. the obsession with white skin is overboard. when they hire foreigners from the west they want white skin. there is even nationalism/racism among the different Arab countries.

having said that. i think the younger generation of Arabs are much less racist than their parents/grandparents. and mashallah some of the nicest people i have met were arabs.

all im saying is just don't point the finger at saudi for racism.

That's very true, but it is said that you point fingers at people you love to help improve them. I couldn't care tuppence about many of the other Gulf countries, they can go to hell :p

But Saudi Arabia has a special place, at least in my heart, and so pointing out its flaws in the hope that they may change is one of the things we can, and should, do.

You're right, the majority of Saudis aren't like that at all.

However, compared to many other countries (outside the Gulf), Saudi Arabia does have a larger problem with institutional racism.

[Abandoned-Mind]

saudia airlines takes off with Dua Safar alhamdulilah . can you name another one ?

I believe PIA also makes supplication or atleast says "Bismillah".

[alld]

Yemenia airlines

I believe PIA also makes supplication or atleast says "Bismillah".

:masha:

[S@Z]

seriously > what does a Q and a poll like that intends to achieve ?

[Abandoned-Mind]

Regarding the airlines and them making dua as safr, whats the point if they do or do not? (Just wondering).

Everyone remembers Allaah at times of 'danger' or 'death'... Fir'awn..lol

[Um Abdullah]

I couldn't care tuppence about many of the other Gulf countries, they can go to hell


bro becareful what you say
majority of people living in Gulf countries are Muslims.

I know you didn't mean that the people go to hell, but your statement sounds like it.

[alld]

s.arabia isamuslim country bcoz it has 100% muslim citizens

s.arabia is a partly islamic country coz sharia laws are implemented.

s.arabia is an islamic country in true sence ? :rubeyes:

[Zaid the Great]

s.arabia is a partly islamic country coz sharia laws are implemented.


they are not:torture:

[alld]

they are not:torture:

u have any thing or some thing more to say dear zaid :rubeyes:

[alld]

bro becareful what you say
majority of people living in Gulf countries are Muslims.

I know you didn't mean that the people go to hell, but your statement sounds like it.

he bro didn't mean it literally me thinks . he is just cursing the state they are in .

[Zaid the Great]

u have any thing or some thing more to say dear zaid :rubeyes:

YES!

I'm from Najd I'll have you know! and Al-salool or al-saud as they are more commonly known are one of the worst opressors in the world.....

They steal the public's oil money..
They allow riba....
No freeedom of speech...
Allow kaafirs on to Muslim land...
They have porrly managed the country, especially in the past 20 years...
They arrest anybody who even tries to advise them...
They punish the weak man and leave the powerful man alone...
They do not cut a burglar's hand off as they should be doing...
They don't rule by shura.....
The bleedin' list goes on.....



I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE DEFEND THEM......

YA ALLAH DESTROY THEM......

[Um Abdullah]

YES!

I'm from Najd I'll have you know!

It seems your ignorant about your own court system and what punishments are applied to criminals.
not surprised, my brother in law used to think that shari'ah hudood weren't applied, and he is from Najd, until he graduated from Islamic university and became a muhaqiq, and worked with the courts, then he discovered that he was wrong, and he even witnessed the beheading of one killer.
there was also an interview with a man who does beheading of killers in one of the cities in Saudi Arabia.
so correct your info.


and Al-salool or al-saud as they are more commonly known are one of the worst opressors in the world.....

nonsense
you must be very ignorant about other rulers in other Muslim countries, and non Muslim countries to say that aal Saud are worst opressors in the world

[Zaid the Great]

It seems your ignorant about your own court system and what punishments are applied to criminals.
not surprised, my brother in law used to think that shari'ah hudood weren't applied, and he is from Najd, until he graduated from Islamic university and became a muhaqiq, and worked with the courts, then he discovered that he was wrong, and he even witnessed the beheading of one killer.
there was also an interview with a man who does beheading of killers in one of the cities in Saudi Arabia.
so correct your info.



do they cut the hands of the burglar???
Give me the name of one prince who was punished for commiting a crime...
Are you trying to defend them??? If so you have not refuted any of my points.

[alld]

do they cut the hands of the burglar???
Give me the name of one prince who was punished for commiting a crime...
Are you trying to defend them??? If so you have not refuted any of my points.

there are many people who get hudood punishments even in place like riyadh . the diifference is that before it was published but now it is done away from huge public gatherings . the day is other than friday . :rubeyes:

the court system is excellant but the implementation is poor

[Zaid the Great]

there are many people who get hudood punishments even in place like riyadh . the diifference is that before it was published but now it is done away from huge public gatherings . the day is other than friday . :rubeyes:

i dont think u hav been following the news...

They have stopped performing hadd-al-sariqah because of "human rights"

[sis_niqabi]

salam

i think we need to be mindful in saying who's a munafiq or not. because we could be calling a muslim a kaffir. and some sheikhs even says anyone who makes unjustified takfeer may take themselves out the fold of islam. so be mindful
none of knows what's in these people's hearts.

[Um Abdullah]

yes they cut off the hand of the burglar but it is not mentioned in media, but a group of people do witness it.
they also lash, and stone
my husband witnessed a lashing one time, it was done in one of the Masajid.

as for princes, if there crime didnt' reach the courts, and it was covered or hidden, then they would get away with it, but if it reached the court then that is it, he is to be punished.

one prince whom the had (shari'ah punishment) was going to be applied to was prince Fahd bin Nayef bin Sa'ood (great grandson of king Abdul Aziz bin Saud) who killed someone about 2 years ago in a fight.
Many tried to ask the victim's father to forgive the killer, but he wouldn't, then when it was time to behead prince fahd bin nayef, his eyes were covered and he was on his knees and the beheader was ready to behead him, but before that, the victim's father did salat istikhara few times and then announced that he forgives the killer.
There are more details you can find in Arabic websites.

Here is a link for an article in al watan newspaper that talks about the incident and the forgiving of the victim's father in Arabic:
http://www.alwatan.com.sa/daily/2004-05-02/first_page/first_page02.htm

you can also do some search on it in google in arabic.

[Zaid the Great]

yes they cut off the hand of the burglar
they also lash, and stone
my husband witnessed a lashing one time, it was done in one of the Masajid.

as for princes, if there crime didnt' reach the courts, and it was covered or hidden, then they would get away with it, but if it reached the court then that is it, he is to be punished.

one prince whom the had (shari'ah punishment) was going to be applied to was prince Fahd bin Nayef bin Sa'ood (great grandson of king Abdul Aziz bin Sa'eed) who killed someone about 2 years ago in a fight.
Many tried to ask the victim's father to forgive the killer, but he wouldn't, then when it was time to behead prince fahd bin nayef, his eyes were covered and he was on his knees and the beheader was ready to behead him, but before that, the victim's father did salat istikhara few times and then announced that he forgives the killer.
There are more details you can find in Arabic websites.

Here is a link for an article in al watan newspaper that talks about the incident and the forgiving of the victim's father in Arabic:
http://www.alwatan.com.sa/daily/2004-05-02/first_page/first_page02.htm

you can also do some search on it in google in arabic.

They don't cut the hands of the burglar.....
check ur info

[Um Abdullah]

stoning to death is worse than cutting off a burglar's hand

and your telling me they stopping cutting of hands of burglars for "human rights" but still stone an adulterer to death (yes they do stone, my brother in law is a witness to that)?

so human rights activists don't see anything wrong with stoning an adulterer to death?

give me a break


"human rights" activists are against all hudood not just cutting off the hand.

[Muslim_Online]

BTW, there is a difference between 'Daar' and 'Bilaad' (look it up, please). It is Daar al-Kufr but Bilaad al-Muslimeen, in short.

Daar is what is related to rule and rulings. Bilaad is the land's population.

:jkk:

- MO

[Um Abdullah]

yes, but the rule of hijrah does apply if conditions are met
also it would make the haramain dar al kufr ruled by kufr, and how amazing is it that people do hajj, and umrah in dar al kufr and the "kufar" rulers help those Muslims with all their ability to preform their duties towards Allah and worry about their safety and health, and make their hajj journey as easy as possible.
that really sounds like dar al kufr and kafir rulers who rule by kufr.

if you believe it is dar al kufr because you believe that the rulers are kafir
then that is your opinion, and it does not make it true.

[sis_niqabi]

salam

i can't believe this thread was even created. i can see why someone might questioned turkey being a muslim or non-muslim country. but saudi arabia?

[Abandoned-Mind]

yes, but the rule of hijrah does apply if conditions are met
also it would make the haramain dar al kufr ruled by kufr, and how amazing is it that people do hajj, and umrah in dar al kufr and the "kufar" rulers help those Muslims with all their ability to preform their duties towards Allah and worry about their safety and health, and make their hajj journey as easy as possible.
that really sounds like dar al kufr and kafir rulers who rule by kufr.

if you believe it is dar al kufr because you believe that the rulers are kafir
then that is your opinion, and it does not make it true.

Have a read of this insha'Allaah.

Can Makkah Become Dar al-Harb?

Question :

There are those who seek to use the Hadith, "No Hijrah (emigration) after the Conquest" as evidence that Makkah will not return to being a Land of kufr. So how do we combine this usage of this Hadith, if it is valid, with the current situation of Makkah today? and Jazakum Allaahu Khayran.


Answer :

All Praise belongs to Allah, the Lord of the Universe.

There is nothing in the Hadith which implies that Makkah will return to being a Land of kufr, not that it will never return to being a Land of kufr.

It only contains that the first Hijrah from the Makkah to Madinah has passed for its (i.e the first Hijrah's) people; and that there is no Hijrah after the Conquest of Makkah, from Makkah to Madinah - because it (i.e Makkah) has become a Land of Islam.

And the fact that it became a Land of Islam, does not mean that it will be permanent with this ruling (of being a Land of Islam), or that this characteristic will remain with Makkah over all ages and until the Day of Resurrection. For indeed it has been authentically narrated from the Prophet :saws2: that he said, "The Hour will not be established until the House (of Allah) is not made pilgrimage to." And that the Hour will not come, until Al-Lat and Al-'Uzzah are worshipped once again.

And likewise, it has been established in history that the heretical infidel Qaramitah took over Makkah, and governmed with their disbelief and heresy, and they killed the pilgrims of the Sacred House of Allah, inside the sacred precincts (Haram), and burried them within the precincts of the Masjid, and also in the Well of ZamZam, and their leader Abu Tahir al Qarmati, may Allah curse him - used to say while standing at the door of the Ka'bah, while men were being thrown around him inside Al-Masjid Al-Haram - while on the Day of Tarwiyah :

"I am Allah - And in Allah I am
I created the Creation - And destroy it I shall"

And the people used to flee from them, and they would hang on the drapes of the Ka'bah (to protect themselves from the Qaramitah), but that did not benefit them in the least. And this was not sufficient for the Qaramitah - may Allah curse them; they even deracinated the Black Stone, and took it with them (to Al-Ahsa) and kept it for 22 years and (only) then they returned it, and their story is well recorded and known in the books of History!

So the question is : Was Makkah, in those days, under the reign of the Heretic Qaramitah, a Land of Islam? Or was it a Land of Kufr and Harb?

The anwer is : There is no doubt, nor any disagreement that it was a land of Harb and Kufr; and that liberating it from the tyranny and reign of the heretical Qaramitah was amongst the most important individual obligations [Fardh al-'Ayn].

And likewise, were the days in which it (Makkah) was governed by Ash-Sharif Husayn - puppet of the British... Was it ruled with Islam?

The answer, as everyone knows, is "No".

And Allah the Highest is Most Knowledgeable.

[Answered by Shaykh Abu Basir at-Tartusi]

[alld]

salam

i can't believe this thread was even created. i can see why someone might questioned turkey being a muslim or non-muslim country. but saudi arabia?

walaikumsalaam .I think people are discussing whether it is truly Islamic country in spirit while there is no doubt that it is 100% muslim country .

[al faqeer]

walaikumsalaam .I think people are discussing whether it is truly Islamic country in spirit while there is no doubt that it is 100% muslim country .

What kinda stoopid statement is that man ?

In Spirit ? do you Know of any countries that are Islamic in spirit right now ?

Please name em ?

[Reema]

Pathetic thread

[sis_niqabi]

Pathetic thread

best said!:up:

[Zaid the Great]

Pathetic thread

even the poll's messed up:D

[sada]

assalam from türkiye.I wanted to study medicine in madeenah or makkah but saudy goverment puts some heavy rules.I can't go on my üni.in türkiye because I am not allowed to enter üni. with coverhead and hijab and education is not enough and I wanted to take islamic education with medicine so decided to study abroad but it must be islamic country as a girl in main there is no darulislam but I had to find AHVAN İ SHAR at least,but saudy gvrmnt is so and I applied germany but for a long time I understood once again I must go on in an islamic country I want to complete my education with rıda of Allah,only so I struggle for 5 years now I am looking at sharjah inshaallah it will be my darulislam

[Asmara]

assalam from türkiye.I wanted to study medicine in madeenah or makkah but saudy goverment puts some heavy rules.I can't go on my üni.in türkiye because I am not allowed to enter üni. with coverhead and hijab and education is not enough and I wanted to take islamic education with medicine so decided to study abroad but it must be islamic country as a girl in main there is no darulislam but I had to find AHVAN İ SHAR at least,but saudy gvrmnt is so and I applied germany but for a long time I understood once again I must go on in an islamic country I want to complete my education with rıda of Allah,only so I struggle for 5 years now I am looking at sharjah inshaallah it will be my darulislam

May Allah help you sister.

[sada]

YES!

I'm from Najd I'll have you know! and Al-salool or al-saud as they are more commonly known are one of the worst opressors in the world.....

They steal the public's oil money..
They allow riba....
No freeedom of speech...
Allow kaafirs on to Muslim land...
They have porrly managed the country, especially in the past 20 years...
They arrest anybody who even tries to advise them...
They punish the weak man and leave the powerful man alone...
They do not cut a burglar's hand off as they should be doing...
They don't rule by shura.....
The bleedin' list goes on.....



I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE DEFEND THEM......

YA ALLAH DESTROY THEM......

assalam,when we review how the saudy gvrmnt is set up,whose powerties are with them,which hidden documents are signed up and which acts,helps are for UMMAH...,it is not darulislam at least.when we say that,we don't want to show those in gvrmnt are kuffar,certainly EMAN İS HİDDEN İN THE DEEP OF HEART but we can commit about how those are muslims not only saudy regions...everywhere muslims are.we must look at ourselves how we act,think in main how we are UBUDULLAH,because how we are,our guides or govermnts are like avarege of us.for example,when we take something,import we to which company belong them or what there are in,I can say in my country as a muslim country,israil and american products are used mostly what a worrying situation and everywhere is like it.there are lots of problems like that and why are muslim girls who aren't allowed to study at their üni.s because of their beliefs and hijabs, accepted to saudy,if the gvrmnt depends on shariah,why MAZLUM girls like us have to go on education in gayrimuslim countries,palestin is alone,why,why,why...but how madeenah was yasreb and with hijrah yasrib turned to madeenah it is possible now only we must be real MUHACİR,real ANSAR and depend on our eman,with QURAN with SUNNAH.with salams...

[alld]

Sada


very touching post . May Allah swt help you .

[Lost_Princess]

HAve you been there or lived there :) ?

i don't have to live there or go there but my mother went there and half the stories she has told me and trust me i dont only here stories from her but from many other ppl who have been there especially the way women are treated there and the laws they have on them no wonder why they do non permissable and haram acts such as prostitution and mitah i agree with what alot of the other members are saying here such as it is one of the holiest cities but thats probably during hajj season only

and here more proof
YES!

I'm from Najd I'll have you know! and Al-salool or al-saud as they are more commonly known are one of the worst opressors in the world.....

They steal the public's oil money..
They allow riba....
No freeedom of speech...
Allow kaafirs on to Muslim land...
They have porrly managed the country, especially in the past 20 years...
They arrest anybody who even tries to advise them...
They punish the weak man and leave the powerful man alone...
They do not cut a burglar's hand off as they should be doing...
They don't rule by shura.....
The bleedin' list goes on.....



I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE DEFEND THEM......

YA ALLAH DESTROY THEM......


assalam o alaikum
so wat do u mean from women rights
what kind of rights and freedom.
thanks

women aren’t allowed to leave without a mahram
a niqqab
why because they might be raped or kidnapped and whose fault is it the government because they give men all this freedom and if a women falls pregnant after shes been raped shes either stoned to death for committing adultery or her own family kill her and they government says its her fault and the crook who committed the crime walks away a free manis that what u call justice and what freedom there is no freedom

I understand that the government is trying to protect women and follow the shariah with the mahram and niqqab thing but it fails when to protect them when something goes wrong and turns the table by blaming her when shes raped by an animal who cant control himself

[Um Abdullah]

dear sister
I live in Saudi Arabia

you said


[COLOR="magenta"]women aren’t allowed to leave without a mahram
many women go out of their homes without a mahram, some even go out with their non mahram driver alone (which is Islamically wrong, because she is with him alone and he is non mahram)
so I don't know where you got that idea from.

a niqqab

sister, non Saudi women who don't wear niqab go out without niqab, my doctor was a syrian Muslim women, she wore a abayah but didn't cover her face.
in hospitals many non Saudi Muslim women, doctors and nurses, don't cover their faces.
the ones who do wear niqab work in the hospital with niqab.

also some saudi women especially in Jeddah walk around with their face showing.

you will find people who will advise you to cover your face, but they can't force you to.


and if a women falls pregnant after shes been raped shes either stoned to death for committing adultery or her own family kill her and they government says its her fault and the crook who committed the crime walks away a free manis that what u call justice and what freedom there is no freedom

sister do you have evidence that they stone to death a woman who has been raped?
people telling you this is not evidence, you must have evidence of a real incident in which a woman who was raped was stoned to death by the law.

Adultry is different than rape, if it is proven that the woman was raped then she is not punished and the man is punished if caught.
but if she commits adultry, then she is to be punished, and the man too if he is caught.

[alld]

i don't have to live there or go there but my mother went there and half the stories she has told me and trust me i dont only here stories from her but from many other ppl who have been there especially the way women are treated there and the laws they have on them no wonder why they do non permissable and haram acts such as prostitution and mitah i agree with what alot of the other members are saying here such as it is one of the holiest cities but thats probably during hajj season only

and here more proof





women aren’t allowed to leave without a mahram
a niqqab
why because they might be raped or kidnapped and whose fault is it the government because they give men all this freedom and if a women falls pregnant after shes been raped shes either stoned to death for committing adultery or her own family kill her and they government says its her fault and the crook who committed the crime walks away a free manis that what u call justice and what freedom there is no freedom

I understand that the government is trying to protect women and follow the shariah with the mahram and niqqab thing but it fails when to protect them when something goes wrong and turns the table by blaming her when shes raped by an animal who cant control himself

u need to visit s.arabia and perhaps you will get heart change :)

[Um Abdullah]

sister you also quote Zaid's post, saying that it is more proof

I will reply to what I am able to from it.

1_ "No freedom of speech"
false, there is freedom of speech but there are also limits to it
you are not free to call for bombing inside the country, or making takfir on the government and calling for revolting against it.


2_ "Allow kaafirs on to Muslim land..."

who said it is haram to allow a non Muslim on Muslim land?
If we are speaking about "haram" (holy city) then that is different
they are not allowed in there, but rest of saudi Arabia yes, many non Muslims work there.
like in all other Muslim countries.

3_ "They arrest anybody who even tries to advise them..."

Bring your evidence.
and I am speaking about advising them in private not out in public infront of all the people.

4_ "They punish the weak man and leave the powerful man alone..."
already brought evidence in my past posts that even the princes are punished if their crime reached the courts.

[Joha]

already brought evidence in my past posts that even the princes are punished if their crime reached the courts.

Much as I hate to play into the hands of those who hate Saudi Arabia, there are two points that you cannot contest.

Freedom of Speech is severely restricted. Much more so than in countries here, especially public criticism of the government which should be a sacrosanct right.

Secondly, here is one example of a case that was dealt with extra-judicially, in a heart wrenching manner and frankly disgustingly.

http://www.cambridgeclarion.org/press_cuttings/saudi_obs_22jan1978.html

Now I understand the case is controversial, many things are contested, but the main facts are still accepted.

Having said all that, I believe the Saudis are reforming, albeit slowly. (waiting for Zaid to flame me :p) You have to bear in mind that as a national society Saudi Arabia is fairly young and it will take time to convince people to accept many things. (Such as voting for women...women driving etc.)

[sada]

assalam,uhti 'lost princess' when I DECİDED TO GO ON MY EDUCATİON (BECAUSE OF NON İSLAMİC RULES AND PUNİSHMENT OF HİJAB) İN MADEENAH,some friedns live with their families there for a long time said that I wouldn't be allowed to be accepted to üni. in madeenah or live alone ,with no mahram and no inviter.also,although my friends live there with families for a long time,they aren't accepted to üni. because they are only türkish...But it is possible to be accepted to üni. only islamic parts like fıqh,if you are invited by an islamic foundation or persons and with only mahram.but 2 years pass to be accepted at least...and what must sisters go on medicine education and want to with their hijab,living their islam, how ALLAH want them to live,like me,I CAN'T GO ON İN MY COUNTRY BECAUSE OF THAT 'ZULUM' AND DON'T WANT TO GO 'GAYRİ-MUSLİM'COUNTRİES AND SAUDY A.İS SO...WHERE SİSTERS LİKE ME GO FOR 'HIJRAH' TO TAKE 'ILM' LİVİNG İSLAM,that is my struggle for 5-6 years,I'm student in germany but didn't go on and decided to wait for where is suit for islamic life when we take education.MAKKAH AND MADEENAH...They are my only wishes but I know about the gvrmnt and soma people there like you say,with salams

[Joha]

assalam,uhti 'lost princess' when I DECİDED TO GO ON MY EDUCATİON (BECAUSE OF NON İSLAMİC RULES AND PUNİSHMENT OF HİJAB) İN MADEENAH

I wasn't aware Al-Jameah Al-Islamiyah in Madina had a female section.

Unless you're talking of private colleges.

[Um Abdullah]

Much as I hate to play into the hands of those who hate Saudi Arabia, there are two points that you cannot contest.

Freedom of Speech is severely restricted. Much more so than in countries here, especially public criticism of the government which should be a sacrosanct right.

first of all, which countries are you talking about (check the underlined)?

secondly, can you give me examples of things that are restricted?
like what kind of stuff people are not allowed to speak about or say?
and what type of criticism are you talking about?


You have to bear in mind that as a national society Saudi Arabia is fairly young and it will take time to convince people to accept many things. (Such as voting for women...women driving etc.)


you dont' start changing rulings by shari'ah law just to fit your own desires.
some issues of fiqh can change depending on the time and country, like the issue of women driving.
the scholars of the country know the situation in the country more than anyone who does not live in the country, and they have knowledge in shari'ah and according to their ijtihad, they made the issue of women driving in saudi Arabia haram.

but in other countries where situation is different, the same ruling would not apply.

so please don't interfer in the rulings of the scholars of the country, every country has its scholars who look at the maslaha and mafsda, and know what they are doing.

and if you want to know more about this issue, and about fatwas on some issues changing depending on time and place, do a search on the topic in Islam Q&A.

[sis_niqabi]

i don't have to live there or go there but my mother went there and half the stories she has told me and trust me i dont only here stories from her but from many other ppl who have been there especially the way women are treated there and the laws they have on them no wonder why they do non permissable and haram acts such as prostitution and mitah i agree with what alot of the other members are saying here such as it is one of the holiest cities but thats probably during hajj season only

and here more proof





women aren’t allowed to leave without a mahram
a niqqab
why because they might be raped or kidnapped and whose fault is it the government because they give men all this freedom and if a women falls pregnant after shes been raped shes either stoned to death for committing adultery or her own family kill her and they government says its her fault and the crook who committed the crime walks away a free manis that what u call justice and what freedom there is no freedom

I understand that the government is trying to protect women and follow the shariah with the mahram and niqqab thing but it fails when to protect them when something goes wrong and turns the table by blaming her when shes raped by an animal who cant control himself

ukti in islam it's mustahb for a woman to leave the house with a mahram. and you don't have to wear niqab in saudi.i've been there you don't. only the rural areas you do.
and ukti the woman doesn't get blamed for rape in saudi.the men get lashes,jail time plus they have to pay money to the women.

you sound like a woman who believes the lies on the news. i believed the lies too. when i first went to saudi i was so nervous that they were going to be strict and that if m abaya wasn't long enough they were going to beat me. but non of that happen.to my surprise it was nothing like that.

[sada]

I wasn't aware Al-Jameah Al-Islamiyah in Madina had a female section.

Unless you're talking of private colleges.

assalam,I am releated of medicine faculties so I looked for it in makkah and madeenah and nearly in all of them there are islamic sections.too.KSU,KKU,KFU,KAV,IMAMU,IUMM,TU,UMMALQU RA...

[Zaid the Great]

sister you also quote Zaid's post, saying that it is more proof

I will reply to what I am able to from it.

1_ "No freedom of speech"
false, there is freedom of speech but there are also limits to it
you are not free to call for bombing inside the country, or making takfir on the government and calling for revolting against it.


2_ "Allow kaafirs on to Muslim land..."

who said it is haram to allow a non Muslim on Muslim land?
If we are speaking about "haram" (holy city) then that is different
they are not allowed in there, but rest of saudi Arabia yes, many non Muslims work there.
like in all other Muslim countries.

3_ "They arrest anybody who even tries to advise them..."

Bring your evidence.
and I am speaking about advising them in private not out in public infront of all the people.

4_ "They punish the weak man and leave the powerful man alone..."
already brought evidence in my past posts that even the princes are punished if their crime reached the courts.

1. That point doesn't even deserve a reply.... You KNOW there is no freedom of speech...

2. Allowing kaafir troops is allowed then according to you??... Especially when Muslims offered men to fight saddam instead of the Americans...

3. have you forgotten muthakarat-al-naseeha which was signed by many people who got arrested shortly thereafter such as Dr.Saad Al-Faqeeh, salmaan al-oadah,etc.

4. 1 prince was nearly punished out of 7000 princes :rotfl: go to www.islah.tv to see how many crimes they have commited .... if u live in arabia then this website is banned which is an example in itself of restricted freedoms.......


They do not implement shari'a which makes them a kaafir government.. because of the following ayaat:
"Whoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, they are disbelievers" [5:44]
"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are oppressors" [5:45]
"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are transgressors" [5:47]

[alld]

assalam,I am releated of medicine faculties so I looked for it in makkah and madeenah and nearly in all of them there are islamic sections.too.KSU,KKU,KFU,KAV,IMAMU,IUMM,TU,UMMALQU RA...

the medical educational standard is left much to be desired or even engineering standards . try to go to pakistan or india

1. aligarh muslim university
2. osmania university
3. bombay university

I know many sisters who did medical doctor in mumbai university with hijaab in government colleges . the standard of these universities can match the best in the world any where . Hijaab is not a problem. these universiites have a quota for foreign students also .

[Joha]

4. 1 prince was nearly punished out of 7000 princes :rotfl: go to www.islah.tv to see how many crimes they have commited .... if u live in arabia then this website is banned which is an example in itself of restricted freedoms.......
I miss Islah Channel by Dr. Sa'd Al Faqeeh, used to pick it up on HotBird but the Saudis put pressure on the French and the satellite company got scared. Is it still on somewhere?

Actually, just found it (from the website), they're back on HotBird, just under a different frequency!!

It was the one and only source of information from the ground in Saudi Arabia that was free of government censorship.. That's what I called real Journalism!

For the dirty tricks the Saudis get up to in Foreign countries you need only see Dr Al Faqeeh's case. The number of times they've tried kidnapping him, often in ingenious ways. It's good that the British are at least strict about this, they (the Saudis) tried to kidnap a member of their own Royal Family in Switzerland and they actually succeeded.

[Joha]

first of all, which countries are you talking about (check the underlined)?

secondly, can you give me examples of things that are restricted?
like what kind of stuff people are not allowed to speak about or say?
and what type of criticism are you talking about?
By countries I mean the West. Particularly the United Kingdom (as I know that better than the other countries).

Again, look at Zaid's post. Those are examples where people have been imprisoned for literally, speaking their mind.


you dont' start changing rulings by shari'ah law just to fit your own desires.
some issues of fiqh can change depending on the time and country, like the issue of women driving.
the scholars of the country know the situation in the country more than anyone who does not live in the country, and they have knowledge in shari'ah and according to their ijtihad, they made the issue of women driving in saudi Arabia haram.

so please don't interfer in the rulings of the scholars of the country, every country has its scholars who look at the maslaha and mafsda, and know what they are doing.
The ruling on women not driving isn't part of the 'Shari'ah'. No need to make stuff up. It is the personal ruling by certain scholars in the kingdom, and the government is playing along (possible for social reasons, possibly political).

Nobody is interfering with the ruling of the scholars. I'm saying it is a ridiculous outrageous ruling, but as I pointed out, and as you said, the social conditions need to change before those 'rulings' are suspended. And it is happening gradually, something that is commendable.

This isn't the issue of a fatwa.

What do you say to the issue of women voting then? How is that even a religious matter? If you allow it for men, you allow it for women. It's ridiculous to have it otherwise.

[Um Abdullah]

1. That point doesn't even deserve a reply.... You KNOW there is no freedom of speech...

If you mean by "freedom of speech" that anyone can say ANYTHING they like, then no, there isn't.
Even in Islam you are not free to say anything you want, there are limits.

Even in US where they talk about "freedom of speech", people were not allowed to say "I am going ot kill the president" or "bomb people" ..etc.
so there is no such thing as 100% freedom of speech.

and there is definitly more freedom of speech in KSA than most other Muslim countries.


2. Allowing kaafir troops is allowed then according to you??... Especially when Muslims offered men to fight saddam instead of the Americans...

First of all, you said "non Muslims", you didnt' say "kafir troops".
secondly, in first Gulf war, Saddam's government was kafir, and there is difference in opinion amongest scholars regarding askign for assitance of a kafir against a kafir.
go read in fiqhi books and you will see how they differed on it, some having opinion that is permissable and they have evidence for it, and other seeing it as impermissable also having their evidence.
so it is not an issue of ijma'.


3. have you forgotten muthakarat-al-naseeha which was signed by many people who got arrested shortly thereafter such as Dr.Saad Al-Faqeeh, salmaan al-oadah,etc.

tell me, was that nasiha in private?
or did they announce it in public condemning the government?


4. 1 prince was nearly punished out of 7000 princes :rotfl: go to www.islah.tv to see how many crimes they have commited .... if u live in arabia then this website is banned which is an example in itself of restricted freedoms.......

they have the right to block it, people making takfir of the government and calling for revolting against it and you dont' want them to block it?


They do not implement shari'a which makes them a kaafir government.. because of the following ayaat:
"Whoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, they are disbelievers" [5:44]
"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are oppressors" [5:45]
"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are transgressors" [5:47]

yes they do, I already brought you evidence

you want to just reject it, that is your problem.

and go learn your deen, and what scholars since the past said regarding ruling by Allah's laws and the details of it, it is not simple as "ruling by other than Allah is kufr".
there are details.

[*hayat*]

salam

may be people are actually confusing what it is meant by saudi country itself, i mean if we hear name saudi where we are suppose to do hajj and umarah we start to think harams is there so how dare we say its not a muslim country but they are different,

the government which s responsible for everything, what zaid said about there is no freedom of speech...is true i think

[Zaid the Great]

yes they do, I already brought you evidence

you want to just reject it, that is your problem.

and go learn your deen, and what scholars since the past said regarding ruling by Allah's laws and the details of it, it is not simple as "ruling by other than Allah is kufr".
there are details.

They allow riba....
They don't cut the burglar's hand off...

Now... is that ruling by shari'ah???

Dr. Saad Al-Faqeeh has never made takfeer on any person in the government....Provide evidence....

Go visit:http://www.islah.tv/index.php?/site/cat_c01/ if you can...
You will get a much clearer picture...

And read this... (Unless you're assuming some of the puppet ulamaa' are more knowledgeable than ibn taymiyyah then you have to accept that the saudi regime is kaafir):

يقول شيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية: (… فمن استحل أن يحكم بين الناس بما يراه هو عدلاً من غير اتباع لما أنزل الله فهو كافر) .ابن تيمية، منهاج السنة النبوية، 3/12 .

وقال الشيخ محمد بن إبراهيم (وتحكيم شرع الله وحده دون كل ما سواه شقيق عبادة الله وحده دون ما سواه) محمد بن إبراهيم، الفتاوى، 12/251

"فلا وربك لا يؤمنون حتى يحكموك فيما شجر بينهم ثم لا يجدوا في أنفسهم حرجاً مما قضيت ويسلموا تسليماً" (النساء، 65)


This should clear up some doubts aswell:rtsp://66.172.3.188:554/realvideo/24-05-06.rm

Please look at my points with an open mind...

[*hayat*]

zaid you saudi???

[Zaid the Great]

zaid you saudi???

I do not refer to myself as 'Saudi' because I am not from al-saud....
I'll prefer it if you called me Arabian or Najdi...

[Joha]

Also, why should they be giving naseeha in private? It is a government for heavens sake, a public entity. As such it is open to public criticism.

Obviously it's wrong to publicly humiliate a private entity, but the government of any country doesn't fall in that category.

[bintadam]

Also, why should they be giving naseeha in private? It is a government for heavens sake, a public entity. As such it is open to public criticism.

Obviously it's wrong to publicly humiliate a private entity, but the government of any country doesn't fall in that category.

very true

[Zaid the Great]

Also, why should they be giving naseeha in private? It is a government for heavens sake, a public entity. As such it is open to public criticism.

Obviously it's wrong to publicly humiliate a private entity, but the government of any country doesn't fall in that category.

According to what I know, a private naseeha was sent to king fahad in the form of a letter before a public naseeha was made....

[sada]

assalam,alld,I want to complete my islamic education while I'Mm going on medicine and so,I think SHARJAH in these days,I like arabic too much and persian too but I need high arabic for my aims for UMMAH,I AND SOME MY FRİENDS COMPLETED THEİR EDUCATİON İN EUROPEAN COUNTRİES BECAUSE OF THEİR HİJAB PUNİSHMENT,think a medical and islamic foundation in madeenah,I know how is the gvrmnt but we'll struggle to live islam of Quran and Rasullullah and to be lived.But now I am not allowed to go to medicine in madeenah,with reasons you know,but after taking my diplom I'll try to live there to realize these duties for UMMAH.May ALLAH,OUR HUDA,be 'radthı' to you cos advise and whereever ALLAH is 'radthı' is my willing.with salams

[Um Abdullah]

where did the government make it halal to rule by other than Allah's laws and believed it to be more just than Allah's laws?
did you hear them say that?
or did you dig into their hearts to know if they made istihlal of that?

no scholar disagrees that "istihlal" (believing it be halal) ruling by other than Allah's laws and believing it to be more just than Allah's laws to be kufr

if a ruler ruled by a ruling that is not from Allah's rulings, because of some weakness, or hawa, but at same time believed that Allah's law is more just, and didn't consider his ruling by other than it to be halal, then that is not kufr akbar, it is what scholars since time of the sahabah called it "kufr duna kufr".

like there is shirk asghar (minor shirk i.e. riya') and shirk akbar (major shirk, i.e. worshiping idols)
there is also kufr akbar and kufr asghar.

anyways, this issue of considering the government kafir or not is not up to me, I leave it to scholars.

and I am not benefiting from declaring it or anyone else, who considers themesleves Muslim, a kafir.

It is more benefit to spend time doing dawah, teaching Muslims their deen, and refuting deviants who spread false things about Islam and its beliefs.

[Abandoned-Mind]

where did the government make it halal to rule by other than Allah's laws and believed it to be more just than Allah's laws?
did you hear them say that?
or did you dig into their hearts to know if they made istihlal of that?

no scholar disagrees that "istihlal" (believing it be halal) ruling by other than Allah's laws and believing it to be more just than Allah's laws to be kufr

if a ruler ruled by a ruling that is not from Allah's rulings, because of some weakness, or hawa, but at same time believed that Allah's law is more just, and didn't consider his ruling by other than it to be halal, then that is not kufr akbar, it is what scholars since time of the sahabah called it "kufr duna kufr".

like there is shirk asghar (minor shirk i.e. riya') and shirk akbar (major shirk, i.e. worshiping idols)
there is also kufr akbar and kufr asghar.

anyways, this issue of considering the government kafir or not is not up to me, I leave it to scholars.

and I am not benefiting from declaring it or anyone else, who considers themesleves Muslim, a kafir.

It is more benefit to spend time doing dawah, teaching Muslims their deen, and refuting deviants who spread false things about Islam and its beliefs.

What do you say about the issue of the Saudis membership of the U.N? Its alliance with the U.S of A?

"About Saudi :

Article 70
International treaties, agreements, regulations and concessions are approved and amended by Royal decree.

Article 83
This law may only be amended in the same way as it was promulgated.

http://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/law/sa00000_.html"


In addition to it being from the founding nations of the United Nations organisation, having joined on (24 Oct. 1945), as can be found here: http://www.un.org/Overview/growth.htm

And another fatwa of scholars of Saudi Arabia mentioned that there is Kufr al-Akbar :

Two days ago, a joint-statement was released by ten reknown scholars in the Arabian Peninsula declaring that what the Saudi government does to be major kufr, that expels one out of the religion.


A summary of it, is as follows:

Question was regarding what was released in some newspapers and domestic periodicals from governors and ministers in the ministry of justice reitirating the obligation of abiding by Article 37 of the Law on Publishing and Distribution, and how these matters - i.e. those of the media - should be reffered back to the ministry of media and not the sharee'ah courts as that is not their duty.

Reply consisted of the following:

1) A mentioning of several ayaat and ahadeeth regarding the issue of ruling by other than what Allah has revealed.

2) How Shaykh Muhammed bin Ibraheem pointed out similar to this some twenty years ago, and how it is still being fought today.

3) A long quote from Shaykh Muhammed bin Ibraheem on what he saw and the ruling on it.

4) A reply to those who say that these issues should not be referred to the Sharee'ah, rather to the ministries of media.

5) A defintion, from a former judge on what all these laws and judiciary systems refer to.

6) Statements and quotes from the Salaf regarding the ruling on the one who applies some of the Sharee'ah on some people, and not on others. Quotes and statements from: Ibn 'Abbas, Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah, Shaykh al-Islaam Muhammed bin 'Abdulwahaab, a hadeeth from the Messenger, sallallahu 'alayhi wa salam and a quote from Shaykh Muhammed bin Ibraheem, rahimahumullahu ta'ala.

7) "So the obligation upon the scholars, judges, callers and people of good is to repel this great evil, and to seek reward by facing it and doing Jihaad against it, for it is related to tawheed, and imaan and kufr, and abstaining from ruling by the Sharee'ah and going to the man-made laws is disbelief in Allah, the Great, and an explusion from the religion, walaa hawla wa la quwata illa billah."

Shaykh Muhammed bin Ibraheem, Mufti of this land, rahimahullah said: "Verily from the greater and clear kufr is giving the accursed man-made laws, the position of that which the faithful spirit descended upon the heart of Muhammed, sallallahu 'alayhi wa salam, so that he may be from the warners in the clear Arabic tongue, and judging between the nations, and referring back to it, is in contradiction of, and an obstinate rejection of Allah, ta'ala saying: "(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, sallallahu 'alayhi wa salam, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.. - Volume 12/284 of al-Fatawaa.

Signed by:

1. Muhammed bin Fahd al'Ali ar-Rashoodi.
2. 'Ali bin Khudayr al-Khudayr
3. Hamad bin Rayes al-Rayes.
4. Muhammed bin Sulaymaan as-Suq'ubi.
5. Naasir bin Hamad al-Fahd.
6. 'Abdullah bin 'Abdurahmaan aal-Sa'd
7. Hamad bin 'Abdullah al-Humaydi (Just released from prison last week).
8. Ahmad bin Saaleh as-Sinaani.
9. Ahmad bin Hamood al-Khaaldi.
10. 'Abdul'azeez bin Saaleh al-'Umar.

Arabic text found below.

بيان في استنكار التحاكم إلى محكمة وزارة الإعلام لعلماء الجزيرة


بيان في استنكار التحاكم إلى محكمة وزارة الإعلام وغيرها


الحمد لله رب العالمين والصلاة والسلام على رسول الله ومن والاه ، وبعد :

المشايخ الفضلاء وفقهم الله ، السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته وبعد فقد صدر تعميم إلى القضاة برقم 13/ ت/ 2071 في 5/ 9 / 1423 هـ المرفق صورته ، باعتماد موجب عدم نظر المحاكم الشرعية في الشكاوى التي تتعلق بما ينشر في الصحف والمجلات المحلية وإحالتها إلى وزارة الإعلام ، وأيضا ما نُشر في الصحف كما في صحيفة الاقتصادية عدد 3331 في 18 / رمضان / 1423 هـ توجيه من وزير العدل إلى قضاة المحاكم بضرورة الالتزام بنص المادة 37 من نظام المطبوعات والنشر وتنص على : أن قضايا النشر في الصحف من اختصاص وزارة الإعلام وليس للمحاكم الشرعية ، وتنظر في المخالفات الخاصة بالنظام ذاته لجنة يتم تشكيلها بقرار من وزير الإعلام ويرأسها وكيل الوزارة المختص ، ولا يقل عدد أعضائها عن ثلاثة يكون أحدهم مستشارا قانونيا ، وتصدر اللجنة قراراتها بالأغلبية بعد دعوة المخالف أو من يمثله وسماع أقواله ويجوز لها دعوة من ترى الاستماع إلى أقواله كما يجوز لها الاستعانة بمن تراه ، ولا تصبح قرارات اللجنة معتمدة إلا بعد موافقة الوزير عليها اهـ فما قولكم في ذلك ؟ والله يحفظكم .

الجواب :

الحمد لله والصلاة والسلام على رسول الله ، وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته ، وبعد :
لقد جعل الله سبحانه وتعالى الحكم إليه والتحاكم إلى شرعه فقط لا غير ، قال تعالى ( إن الحكم إلا لله يقص الحق وهو خير الفاصلين ) وقال تعالى ( إن الحكم إلا لله أمر أن لا تعبدوا إلا إياه ) وقال تعالى ( ولا يشرك في حكمه أحدا ) وقال تعالى ( ومن لم يحكم بما أنزل الله فأولئك هم الكافرون ) وقال تعالى ( والله يحك