A Very Shocking Conversation

[tux08902]

So, I was talking to one of my friends at school today; he is a practicing Muslim, and somehow, the conversation veered off to the topic of alcohol and Islam. My friend told me that a Muslim can drink an alcoholic beverage, but can't lose control; he added that the moment you lose control, it becomes a grave sin. He also said that he found this from a fatwa. He added his own twist to it then, and said that logically it made sense. His explanation was that Allah prohibits intoxicants because they make you lose control, but if you don't lose control, then you really haven't done anything wrong [I see some circular logic].

From all my knowledge of Islam as a Muslim, I think that this is wrong. My parents raised me so that I'd have a strong aversion to alcohol, which was based in religion, personal preference, and education. However, what disturbs me even more is that three years ago, at the Sunday school at my local mosque, two of the teachers said the same thing in front of a school administrator, and no one made a big deal out of it, except I just shrugged it off. [By the way, I left the school for some obvious reasons that year.]

Is what my friend said really true? I always thought that if even one a drop of alcohol is consumed for non-medical purposes, then that person will be severely punished by Allah. I would like for someone to clear this up, although I have a pretty good feeling as to what the answer will be.

[imported_wicked]

drinking alcohol is haraam , i also heard that drinking even a lil bit is haraam

[Abu Nuh AMW]

So, I was talking to one of my friends at school today; he is a practicing Muslim, and somehow, the conversation veered off to the topic of alcohol and Islam. My friend told me that a Muslim can drink an alcoholic beverage, but can't lose control; he added that the moment you lose control, it becomes a grave sin. He also said that he found this from a fatwa. He added his own twist to it then, and said that logically it made sense. His explanation was that Allah prohibits intoxicants because they make you lose control, but if you don't lose control, then you really haven't done anything wrong [I see some circular logic].

From all my knowledge of Islam as a Muslim, I think that this is wrong. My parents raised me so that I'd have a strong aversion to alcohol, which was based in religion, personal preference, and education. However, what disturbs me even more is that three years ago, at the Sunday school at my local mosque, two of the teachers said the same thing in front of a school administrator, and no one made a big deal out of it, except I just shrugged it off. [By the way, I left the school for some obvious reasons that year.]

Is what my friend said really true? I always thought that if even one a drop of alcohol is consumed for non-medical purposes, then that person will be severely punished by Allah. I would like for someone to clear this up, although I have a pretty good feeling as to what the answer will be.

I reckon he was drunk when he told you that....!


asalamu'alaikum
fret not my dear brother! alcohol is indeed haraam in small amounts as well as in large amounts.
hadeeth that mentions everything that intoxicates you in slarge amounts is to be avoided in small amounts.
check out islamqa.com and type it in the serach thing for a definitive answer insha'allah
may Allah bless you :)

[ibn suleman]

In Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3392

"Anything which intoxicates in a large quantity, is prohibited even in a small quantity."

[`asiya]

many people try to twist the deen to suit their desires akhi wa audu billah, but the truth is clear from falsehood Alhamdulillah, and what ur parents have raised u upon is correct and maybe its so shocking to hear them say that because u just know that they are so very wrong alcohol is haram, wether u have a sip of beer a glass of beer or a jug of it, end of. alcohol is haram.

[Sulaiman Harun]

Intoxicants were forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43). Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219). This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91). (Note - the Qur'an is not arranged chronologically, so later verses of the book were not necessarily revealed after earlier verses.)

In the first verse cited above, the word for "intoxicated" is sukara which is derived from the word "sugar" and means drunk or intoxicated. That verse doesn't mention the drink which makes one so. In the next verses cited, the word which is often translated as "wine" or "intoxicants" is al-khamr, which is related to the verb "to ferment." This word could be used to describe other intoxicants such as beer, although wine is the most common understanding of the word.
Muslims interpret these verses in total to forbid any intoxicating substance -- whether it be wine, beer, gin, whiskey, or whatever. The result is the same, and the Qur'an outlines that it is the intoxication, which makes one forgetful of God and prayer, which is harmful. Over the years, the list of intoxicating substances has come to include more modern street drugs and the like. The Prophet Muhammad also instructed his followers, at the time, to avoid any intoxicating substances -- (paraphrased) "if it intoxicates in a large amount, it is forbidden even in a small amount." For this reason, most observant Muslims avoid alcohol in any form, even small amounts that are sometimes used in cooking.

[neelu]

I'm not shocked I've heard this before. I also heard some scholars for dollars in Egypt were trying to find ways to make pork halal too so this was only a matter of time:rolleyes:

[tux08902]

Now here is the bigger question: if there truly is a fatwa that allows for the consumption of alcohol in such a way described in my post, then who is responsible for the deed? The drinker or the scholar/religious authority who issued the fatwa?

[Sulaiman Harun]

The scholar

[Ibn Sina]

The "scholar" is, but the person who read the fatwa and believed it should've searched for some other fatwas and the subject to see if they corroborate

[Barracuda]

So, I was talking to one of my friends at school today; he is a practicing Muslim, and somehow, the conversation veered off to the topic of alcohol and Islam. My friend told me that a Muslim can drink an alcoholic beverage, but can't lose control; he added that the moment you lose control, it becomes a grave sin. He also said that he found this from a fatwa. He added his own twist to it then, and said that logically it made sense. His explanation was that Allah prohibits intoxicants because they make you lose control, but if you don't lose control, then you really haven't done anything wrong [I see some circular logic].

From all my knowledge of Islam as a Muslim, I think that this is wrong. My parents raised me so that I'd have a strong aversion to alcohol, which was based in religion, personal preference, and education. However, what disturbs me even more is that three years ago, at the Sunday school at my local mosque, two of the teachers said the same thing in front of a school administrator, and no one made a big deal out of it, except I just shrugged it off. [By the way, I left the school for some obvious reasons that year.]

Is what my friend said really true? I always thought that if even one a drop of alcohol is consumed for non-medical purposes, then that person will be severely punished by Allah. I would like for someone to clear this up, although I have a pretty good feeling as to what the answer will be.
Bro

You need to tell your friend that Flea Market Fatwa he got is phony and "Alcohol" is Haram regardless of its quantity consumed, even if it is 1/100 of a drop or more.

If he (your friend) does not renew his Iman and ask Allah for forgiveness than you don't want him as friend. There are etiquettes and rules of friendship in Islam.

[tux08902]

I understand Islamic etiquettes of friendship, and I will try to tell him I have gathered here. However, there is one last question. Does consumption of alcohol carry a finite punishment or an ifinite punishment in the afterlife (I know there are unforgivable sins)? Does consumption of alcohol leave room for Allah's mercy after repenting like other sins?

[Barracuda]

I understand Islamic etiquettes of friendship, and I will try to tell him I have gathered here. However, there is one last question. Does consumption of alcohol carry a finite punishment or an ifinite punishment in the afterlife (I know there are unforgivable sins)? Does consumption of alcohol leave room for Allah's mercy after repenting like other sins?
In a Islamic system of governement where Islamic laws are enforced, the punishment of drinking alcohol is 40 lashes.

However, say if some one consume alcohol in UK, s/he must give this habit and ask Allah for forgivness. Perhaps, one may dodge the finite punishment, but this crime also carry an infinite punishment in the Hereafter, thus, Allah's forgivness and His mercy are needed with repentance.

[umm_yusuf]

I understand Islamic etiquettes of friendship, and I will try to tell him I have gathered here. However, there is one last question. Does consumption of alcohol carry a finite punishment or an ifinite punishment in the afterlife (I know there are unforgivable sins)? Does consumption of alcohol leave room for Allah's mercy after repenting like other sins?

Akhi, we know from different ahadeeth and ayaat in the Qur'an that the mercy of Allah is infinite. The Rassul (:saw:) told us that Allah can forgive all sins if He wills except if a person dies commiting or not having repented from commiting shirk. May Allah save us from that.

The issue of alcohol is a big one. The Rassul (:saw:) Allah has forbidden the Paradise to three people: the alcoholic, the runaway slave, and the one who is complacent in the face of the evil deeds that his family is performing. If a person seeks forgiveness and tries to rectify his ways then Insha Allah, he will find Allah to be the Most Merciful. May we all be blessed with the Mercy of Allah.

[chitownmuslim]

In Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3392

"Anything which intoxicates in a large quantity, is prohibited even in a small quantity."

perfect hadith for this situation... Jazak Allah Khayr

[Te'oma]

Funny thing...my wife was put on a new medication a while back and one of the side effects when you first start taking it is dry mouth. Over the course of the evening, I saw her drinking from her water bottle and thought nothing of it until she started to slur her words and was really unsteady on her feet. I was really worried and was going to take her to the hospital because her behaviour was very much like she was drunk(I even checked her water bottle to make sure she hadn't snuck some vodka in it) and then it hit me. I asked her how much water she had drank and she just pointed at the empty water bottles in the recycling bin beside the couch. She had drank 8 litres of water in just over 3 hours and was suffering from water intoxication. A potassium iodine salt tablet and she was back to normal in 10 minutes.
My point is that although alcohol is haram, even in small quantities, the hadeeth would have us all die of thirst if we adhered to it implicitly :p

[Raziel]

So, I was talking to one of my friends at school today; he is a practicing Muslim, and somehow, the conversation veered off to the topic of alcohol and Islam. My friend told me that a Muslim can drink an alcoholic beverage, but can't lose control; he added that the moment you lose control, it becomes a grave sin. He also said that he found this from a fatwa. He added his own twist to it then, and said that logically it made sense. His explanation was that Allah prohibits intoxicants because they make you lose control, but if you don't lose control, then you really haven't done anything wrong [I see some circular logic].

From all my knowledge of Islam as a Muslim, I think that this is wrong. My parents raised me so that I'd have a strong aversion to alcohol, which was based in religion, personal preference, and education. However, what disturbs me even more is that three years ago, at the Sunday school at my local mosque, two of the teachers said the same thing in front of a school administrator, and no one made a big deal out of it, except I just shrugged it off. [By the way, I left the school for some obvious reasons that year.]

Is what my friend said really true? I always thought that if even one a drop of alcohol is consumed for non-medical purposes, then that person will be severely punished by Allah. I would like for someone to clear this up, although I have a pretty good feeling as to what the answer will be.

this nutter must have been totally knocked out bro...:wacko:

were not even Supposed to Go near it, according to the Furqan...:smack:

:jkk:

[Raziel]

Funny thing...my wife was put on a new medication a while back and one of the side effects when you first start taking it is dry mouth. Over the course of the evening, I saw her drinking from her water bottle and thought nothing of it until she started to slur her words and was really unsteady on her feet. I was really worried and was going to take her to the hospital because her behaviour was very much like she was drunk(I even checked her water bottle to make sure she hadn't snuck some vodka in it) and then it hit me. I asked her how much water she had drank and she just pointed at the empty water bottles in the recycling bin beside the couch. She had drank 8 litres of water in just over 3 hours and was suffering from water intoxication. A potassium iodine salt tablet and she was back to normal in 10 minutes.
My point is that although alcohol is haram, even in small quantities, the hadeeth would have us all die of thirst if we adhered to it implicitly :p

Didn't quite get that bro...

Alcohol is Forbidden explicitly in the Quran, but if were in a situation where theres no Halal drink, and we only have access to alcohol, were dying of thirst, then insha'allah Allah will not hold us responsible for drinking it...

such situations are unheard of, there is almost always access to halal drinks and water...

:jkk:

[tux08902]

Raziel, that particular hadeeth mentions that any substance that causes intoxication when consumed in large quantities is forbidden in small quantities as well. Te'oma related the time when his wife was intoxicated by consuming too much water in too short a time. Humans need water to survive, but if you consume too much water too quickly, then it has the same effects as alcohol due to the chance in body chemistry. So, if we were to follow the hadeeth implicitly, then water is forbidden because consuming too much of it can cause intoxication. I'd pick a better source, but the following is a link explaining water intoxication.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

[Raziel]

Raziel, that particular hadeeth mentions that any substance that causes intoxication when consumed in large quantities is forbidden in small quantities as well. Te'oma related the time when his wife was intoxicated by consuming too much water in too short a time. Humans need water to survive, but if you consume too much water too quickly, then it has the same effects as alcohol due to the chance in body chemistry. So, if we were to follow the hadeeth implicitly, then water is forbidden because consuming too much of it can cause intoxication. I'd pick a better source, but the following is a link explaining water intoxication.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

thats correct bro...:up:

i can understand how it can be intoxicate some people, thats why we shouldn't drink too much...

Water is not forbidden, because we obviously need it to live, whereas we have no need for alcoholic drinks... neither is potatoes for example forbidden, when we go into excessiveness, eat too much fat, or meat, or have fried stuff, too much drinks thats when problems occur...

the Quranic Verse prohibits anything that intoxicates the mind, this includes, alcoholic drinks, drugs etc...

:jkk:

[tux08902]

I know water is not forbidden, but Te'oma was making the point that consuming too much water causes intoxication, so it can be classified as a forbidden substance under that hadeeth.

[Raziel]

I know water is not forbidden, but Te'oma was making the point that consuming too much water causes intoxication, so it can be classified as a forbidden substance under that hadeeth.

no it can't, because water itself is not an intoxicant, it doesn't befuddle the mind... having too much/Excessive water may have an adverse effect on some people..

in the same manner having excessive amounts of the unhealthy foods we often have, also have a detrimental effect on our health...

we don't go banning every halal food now do we?

:jkk:

[tux08902]

You're not understanding, and I'm not willing to try to make you understand. [Think about the word "implicitly" and what it means.] I got my answer to the original question, and that's all I really care about.

[PiElle]

dun forget our prayers will not be accepted for 40 days if we have alcohol in our body... be it big or small qty.... correct me if i wrong.... :D