Black flags of Khorasan

[Marwan]

Does anyone know if this hadith is da'eef, hassan or sahih? Which book can it be found?

Any info on it would be help-ful.



Thanks.

[Abu Hurairah]

The hadith concerning the black flags/ banners from Khurasaan are not Sahih but rather are either da'eef or even mowduh.

Some related material are as follows:

Black Banners from Khurasan (Afghanistan) to Jerusalem

Reported on a chain of transmission on the authority of Kaab "The sign of the Mahdi's appearance will be war banners coming from the west, lead by a man with a disability from "Kinda".
(Nuaym son of Hammad, Al-Fitan page 205)

Abu Abdullah Nuaim Ibn Hammad on a chain of transmission on the authority of Al Zuhari who said "The black flags will come from the East, led by mighty men, with long hair and beards, their surnames are taken from the names of their home towns (i.e. Khosti or from Khost etc.) and their first names are from a "Kunya".
(Asmal Masalik Lieyyam Mahdiyy Maliki Li Kull-id Dunya Biemrillah-il Malik, Qalda bin Zayd)

Narrated Abdullah ibn Hawalah al-Azdi: "The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) sent us on foot to get spoil, but we returned without getting any. When he saw the signs of distress on our faces, he stood up on our faces and said: O Allah, do not put them under my care, for I would be too weak to care for them; do not put them in care of themselves, for they would be incapable of that, and do not put them in the care of men, for they would choose the best things for themselves. He then placed his hand on my head and said: Ibn Hawalah, when you see the caliphate has settled in the holy land (i.e., Palestine), earthquakes, sorrows and serious matters will have drawn near and on that day the Last Hour will be nearer to mankind than this hand of mine is to your head.
(Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Jihad (Kitab Al-Jihad), Book 14, Number 2529)

Ammar, the son of Yasir, may Allah be pleased with both of them, said: "When As-Sufyaani reaches Kufa and kills the supporters of the family of Muhammad, praise and peace be upon him, the Mahdi will come and the bearer of his Banner will be Shuayb, the son of Salih."

Nuaim Ibn Hammad on a chain of transmission on the authority of Al Zuhari who said, "If the people of the black flag divide, then the people of the yellow banner will attack, they will gather in the canal of Egypt and the people of the East and the West will fight for seven (days or months or years)..."
(Asmal Masalik Lieyyam Mahdiyy Maliki Li Kull-id Dunya Biemrillah-il Malik,
Qalda bin Zayd)

Muhammad, son of Al Hanaffia, said:"The Black Banners will come out for the children of Al Abbas. The other black banners will come from Khurasan. Their turbans will be black and their clothes white. At their front will be a man named Shuayb, the son of Salih, from Tamim. They will defeat the companions of The Sufyaani until he comes to the House of Jerusalem where he will establish his power for the Mahdi, and he will be supplied with three hundred (men) from Syria after his arrival and the matter will be settled for the Mahdi in seventy-two months (six years)."

Said son of Al Musayyab reported: "The Black Banners will come from the East from the children of Al Abbas. Then there will remain whatsoever Allah wishes. Then, small Black Banners will come to fight a man from the children of Abu Sufyaan from the East. They will give their allegiance to the Mahdi."
(Nuaym son of Hammad.)

Al Hasan Al Basri said:
"A man of medium stature will come from Ar-Ray (a far-eastern town). He will be dark and from the children of Tamim -- a Wasaj, named Shuayb son of Salih with four thousand men. Their clothes will be white and Banners black, and at his front is the Mahdi. He meets no one that he does not defeat and scatter."

Abdullah, the son of Shuraykh, said:
"With the Mahdi is the marked Banner of the Messenger of Allah, praise and peace be upon him."

Ammar, the son of Yasir, may Allah be pleased with both of them, said:
"The bearer of the Banner of the Mahdi is Shuayb, the son of Salih."

Reported by Abu Said Al Khudri: "A man from my nation will come who speaks with my Sunnah and Allah, the Mighty, the Glorified will send showers of rain from the heavens so that the earth will produce its blessing. Through him the earth will be filled with fairness and justice just as it had been filled by oppression and injustice. He will govern this nation for seven years, and go to Jerusalem."
(Abu Dawud, Al Hakim, At-Tirmidhi, Ahmad, son of Hibban, Muslim, Al Tabarani, Al Barudi and Abu Nuaym)

On the authority of Thawban, the Messenger of Allah (upon whom be blessings and peace) said:The Prophet Sallallahu ‘Alaihi Wa Sallam said: "Before your treasure, three will kill each other -- all of them are sons of a different caliph but none will be the recipient. Then the Black Banners will appear from the East and they will kill you in a way that has never before been done by a nation."
Thawban, a companion said: 'Then he said something that I do not remember by heart' then continued to say that the Prophet, praise and peace be upon him, said: "If you see him give him your allegiance, even if you have to crawl over ice, because surely he is the Caliph of Allah, the Mahdi. If you see the black (meaning war) flags coming from Khurasan (Afghanistan), join that army, even if you have to crawl over ice, for this is the army of the Caliph, the Mahdi and no one can stop that army until it reaches Jerusalem."
(Son of Majah, Al Busiri, Al Hakim, Ahmad Nuaym, Ad-Daylami, Hasan, son of Sufyaan, and Abu Nuaym.)

Related by Abu Hurayrah: The Prophet Sallallahu ‘Alaihi Wa Sallam said: "(Armies carrying) black flags will come from Khurasan (Afghanistan). No power will be able to stop them and they will finally reach Jerusalem where they will erect their flags." (Tirmidhi)

Ali said, “The Prophet said, ‘A man named al-Harith son of Hirath will come from Transoxania (Tajikistan). His army will be led by a man named Mansoor. He will be pave the way for and establish the government of the family of Muhammad, just as the Quraysh established the government of the Messenger of Allah. Every believer will be obliged to support them.’” (Abu-Dawud.)

Buraidah says that Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam said: "There will be many armies after me. You must join that army which will come from Khurasaan." (Ibn Adi)

Abu Hurairah says that Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam said: "(Armies carrying) black flags will come from Khurasaan. No power will be able to stop them and they will finally reach Eela (Baitul Maqdas) where they will erect their flags."

[AbuMubarak]

ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã íÇ ÃÈÇ åÑíÑÉ

regarding asking, pleading, begging bush to close guantanamo, it would be better that we make dua that Allah removes the muslims from such a humiliating place

its not humiliating in terms of the brothers who are captive there, its humiliating for us as an ummah, that there are muslims held captive by the kuffar and with 1.2 billion muslims in the world, no one is rescuing, ransoming, or fighting for their release

may Allah give those who imprisoned those muslims a more humiliating position in this world and the next, amin

[abdusamad]

hmmmm...

[al faqeer]

So does this mean those Black flags are shia ?

So are those Shia gonne reach Jerusalem b4 us sunnis ? :)

i dont think so

[khanbaba]

Probably referring to Taliban. :D

[khanbaba]

There are some of these related hadees to be found in Ahmed and Tirmidhi. Also in Muslim.

[al faqeer]

Probably referring to Taliban. :D

taliban ? I dont think so , and since when do they have black flags ?

[Marwan]

al faqeer keep your politics out of this. thanks

[al faqeer]

al faqeer keep your politics out of this. thanks

Make me :) , I post what i like .

[khanbaba]

taliban ? I dont think so , and since when do they have black flags ?

They do. >>>Google.

[Medievalist]

Nah - Al Faqeer is right. I guess it must mean the green pagri waley with their degs of steaming halwah and army of ragtag charsi malangs innit **roll eyes**

[Abu Hurairah]

ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã íÇ ÃÈÇ åÑíÑÉ

regarding asking, pleading, begging bush to close guantanamo, it would be better that we make dua that Allah removes the muslims from such a humiliating place

its not humiliating in terms of the brothers who are captive there, its humiliating for us as an ummah, that there are muslims held captive by the kuffar and with 1.2 billion muslims in the world, no one is rescuing, ransoming, or fighting for their release

may Allah give those who imprisoned those muslims a more humiliating position in this world and the next, amin
Nobody is pleading/ begging no kaffir let alone the Amir of the Shayateen for anything Akhy, we're espressing our thoughts and making our demands- whether we're actually in any position to do so or the kuffar listen or not.

Aside from that na'am alhamdulillah I agree with you in totallity.

[Al-Irhaab]

The hadith concerning the black flags/ banners from Khurasaan are not Sahih but rather are either da'eef or even mowduh.




only some of the 'salafi' ulema have classed them as being dhaeef and mauduh....

[Abu Hurairah]

So does this mean those Black flags are shia ?

So are those Shia gonne reach Jerusalem b4 us sunnis ? :)

i dont think so
Al Faqueer the Shia have red and also yellow flags (Hizb'ul Shaytan) not black at all- the black flags/ banner are to be found held by Mujahideen in parts of Chychan and Khurasaan (present day Afghanistan) held by our Taliban brethren and their allies.
There are some of these related hadees to be found in Ahmed and Tirmidhi. Also in Muslim.
Insha'allah if you quote them here it would be appreciated. :)
only some of the 'salafi' ulema have classed them as being dhaeef and mauduh....
So have the other non- Salafi 'ullema classed them as Sahih? If so which ones. :up:

[Marwan]

only some of the 'salafi' ulema have classed them as being dhaeef and mauduh....

All the hadith that are posted are very, how shall I put this, prophetic.

Long hair & beards, black flags, black turbans, white clothes, named after the province they're from.

What I don't understand is, does the Mahdi know he is the Mahdi. Or, is he oblivious to his assigning like Prophet Muhammed (saw) until he received Wahy?

[Abu Mus'ab]

only some of the 'salafi' ulema have classed them as being dhaeef and mauduh....
Yeah.

[Al-Irhaab]

So have the other non- Salafi 'ullema classed them as Sahih? If so which ones. :up:

the ones that actually collected the hadith :smack:

plus the mujahideen.... u dont think its coincidence how they dress and act and where they go to fight ;)

[Abu Hurairah]

the ones that actually collected the hadith :smack:

plus the mujahideen.... u dont think its coincidence how they dress and act and where they go to fight ;)
No Akhy what I meant is are all the ahadith Sahih in regards to the black banner/ flags (some of which are posted above ^^^) according to the non-Salafi 'Ullema?

And if not, which ones are the Sahih hadith and which are the agreed upon by Salafi and non-Salafi 'Ullema as weak?

[Al-Irhaab]

No Akhy what I meant is are all the ahadith Sahih in regards to the black banner/ flags (some of which are posted above ^^^) according to the non-Salafi 'Ullema?

And if not, which ones are the Sahih hadith and which are the agreed upon by Salafi and non-Salafi 'Ullema as weak?

bro the issue of sahih and dhaeef is one more complicated then i think your understanding....

let me give you an example.... if there are ten hadith all alluding to the same thing and individually each one has a few weaknesses here or there then collectively we dont treat them as dhaif because of multiple hadith about the same topic...

also the hadith listed above are ikhbari ie they are just information there is no actual ahkam in them, because of this even if they are classed as dhaif we can still accept them as they are speaking of the higher status of a specific place....

finally i have only ever heard one 'salafi' say that these are dhaif... my teachers used to quote these hadith to us without saying they were dhaif and they were very well versed in hadith mashallah...

[MMS]

do the taliban have a black and white striped flag??

http://www.punchdown.org/rvb/M15/picts/PK_Quetta_20030402.jpg

picture of balauchistan, apparently them guys r holding up taliban flags :scratch:

[Abu Hurairah]

bro the issue of sahih and dhaeef is one more complicated then i think your understanding....

let me give you an example.... if there are ten hadith all alluding to the same thing and individually each one has a few weaknesses here or there then collectively we dont treat them as dhaif because of multiple hadith about the same topic...

also the hadith listed above are ikhbari ie they are just information there is no actual ahkam in them, because of this even if they are classed as dhaif we can still accept them as they are speaking of the higher status of a specific place....

finally i have only ever heard one 'salafi' say that these are dhaif... my teachers used to quote these hadith to us without saying they were dhaif and they were very well versed in hadith mashallah...
Jezak'allah Akhy for the above.

There are more than just these, I remember coming by them from time to time individually but not actually collected together in one format. When you read material in English on qhitaal only a few books/ articles, etc. contain them, aside from when you read specifically on the the subject of Imam Mahdi, etc.

[Al-Irhaab]

do the taliban have a black and white striped flag??

http://www.punchdown.org/rvb/M15/picts/PK_Quetta_20030402.jpg

picture of balauchistan, apparently them guys r holding up taliban flags :scratch:

thats a party flag :smack:

i dont recognise which group it is though... maybe one of the jamiat ulema islami flags.....

taliban flag is the blag flag with the shahdah on in... its either called the ar raya or the al-liwa i cant remember which :smack:

[MMS]

thats a party flag :smack:

i dont recognise which group it is though... maybe one of the jamiat ulema islami flags.....

taliban flag is the blag flag with the shahdah on in... its either called the ar raya or the al-liwa i cant remember which :smack:

its a white flag with black shahadah onit :p

[Abu Mus'ab]

do the taliban have a black and white striped flag??

http://www.punchdown.org/rvb/M15/picts/PK_Quetta_20030402.jpg

picture of balauchistan, apparently them guys r holding up taliban flags :scratch:
The taliban have both black and white flags, the black being Ar Rayah and the white Al Liwah.

[MMS]

Reported on a chain of transmission on the authority of Kaab "The sign of the Mahdi's appearance will be war banners coming from the west, lead by a man with a disability from "Kinda".
(Nuaym son of Hammad, Al-Fitan page 205)

mullah dadullah only has one leg doesnt he? :idea:

[Abu Mus'ab]

mullah dadullah only has one leg doesnt he? :idea:




Yes he does.

But that could be Mullah Umar also, as he too has a disability.

[Abu Hurairah]

Yes he does.

But that could be Mullah Umar also, as he too has a disability.
Insha'allah Akhy you and everyone else find more and add them on this thread please so we'll make ourselves a collection of them all.

Jezak'allah. :up:

[khanbaba]

The narrations of the Prophet (Sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) prophesy of a Muslim force from the East ("al-Mashriq"), possibly from the land of "Khorasan" (Ahmad, Tirmithi, etc, ) which is today Afghanistan , that will march towards the West conquering everything in site and will remain undefeated until they reach Jerusalem (termed "Eeliyaa'" in the Hadeeth). They and their Ameer will give bay`ah to the Mahdi. However, in the path of this force from the East lies a powerful behemoth called Iran from where the Prophet (Sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) said Dajjal will appear with a following of 70,000 Jews in Isfahaan (Abu Bakr, Radee Allaahu `anhu, said this would be in the direction of Khorasan in the city of Isfahan). Thus we can assume there will be a major war between the forces of the Sunnah in the East and the Iranians and their "70,000 Jews" (SaHeeH Muslim) who lie in the path of Jerusalem .

Taken from http://darulislam.info/

[Marwan]

Parts of Pakistan are technically part of early Khorasaan, also.

[khanbaba]

Parts of Pakistan are technically part of early Khorasaan, also.

NWFP and Balochistan?

[al faqeer]

Al Faqueer the Shia have red and also yellow flags (Hizb'ul Shaytan) not black at all- the black flags/ banner are to be found held by Mujahideen in parts of Chychan and Khurasaan (present day Afghanistan) held by our Taliban brethren and their allies.

Insha'allah if you quote them here it would be appreciated. :)

So have the other non- Salafi 'ullema classed them as Sahih? If so which ones. :up:

I dont think so , Taleban are Salafis who Sideline Ahlul Bayt , Shia are people who over Glorify Ahlul Bayt , I doubt the MAhdi will be with these 2 extremes .

Allahu a3lam

[khanbaba]

I dont think so , Taleban are Salafis who Sideline Ahlul Bayt , Shia are people who over Glorify Ahlul Bayt , I doubt the MAhdi will be with these 2 extremes .

Allahu a3lam

Serioysly stop spreading misinformation/lies. Taliban are Hanafi Sunni and most Taliban belong to Chishti/Naqshbandi/Qadri tareeqhs.

[al faqeer]

Serioysly stop spreading misinformation/lies. Taliban are Hanafi Sunni and most Taliban belong to Chishti/Naqshbandi/Qadri tareeqhs.

I dont think so buddy , taliban are anything but Followers of Tassawuf , they are pure Salafi made .

And besides the Mahdi a.s. will be from Bani Hashim , and Taliban are mostly Bani Israel .

[khanbaba]

I dont think so buddy , taliban are anything but Followers of Tassawuf , they are pure Salafi made .
You are wrong, but there is no point in arguing with you. Your saying anything wont change the reality.

And besides the Mahdi a.s. will be from Bani Hashim , and Taliban are mostly Bani Israel .
First of all there can be Hashmis in Afghanistan.
And here we are talking about people from Khorasaan going to help Imam Mahdi.

[al faqeer]

You are wrong, but there is no point in arguing with you. Your saying anything wont change the reality.

First of all there can be Hashmis in Afghanistan.
And here we are talking about people from Khorasaan going to help Imam Mahdi.

I got no problem with that , Just making a point that it wont be salafis or shia's .

[Abu Mus'ab]

And certainly not grave worshippers like you either.

[al faqeer]

And certainly not grave worshippers like you either.

****ed off already eh :D

[Abu Mus'ab]

****ed off already eh :D
You think too highly of yourself, you couldn't annoy me if you tried your hardest.

[Medievalist]

I dont think so , Taleban are Salafis who Sideline Ahlul Bayt , Shia are people who over Glorify Ahlul Bayt , I doubt the MAhdi will be with these 2 extremes .

Allahu a3lam

this one is a barelwi :rolleyes:

they glorify shirk and sideline tawheed. :rolleyes:

Al-Faqeer you funnay. ALLAH grant you imaan, islaam and ihsaan -ameen

The Mahdee these ones believe in wudnt get the fursat to get up from a bowl of halwa let alone conquering the forces of evil **roll eyes**

[al faqeer]

You think too highly of yourself, you couldn't annoy me if you tried your hardest.

I just did :D

[Abu Mus'ab]

this one is a barelwi :rolleyes:

they glorify shirk and sideline tawheed. :rolleyes:

Al-Faqeer you funnay. ALLAH grant you imaan, islaam and ihsaan -ameen

The Mahdee these ones believe in wudnt get the fursat to get up from a bowl of halwa let alone conquering the forces of evil **roll eyes**
Aye he's a barelwi, and a grave worshpping one at that.

[Abu Mus'ab]

I just did :D
You must be feeling queery to think you've done such a thing.

[alld]

I just did :D

Is that what you are trying to do ?

They(Talibs) are mujahideens and certainly not ascribing to your ideas .

You need to show your type of mujahideens if any .

[al faqeer]

Is that what you are trying to do ?

They(Talibs) are mujahideens and certainly not ascribing to your ideas .

You need to show your type of mujahideens if any .

Salahudeen Al Ayoubi , Umar Al Mukhtar etc .

Not OBL ( CIA and the gang) alhamdulilah .

[al faqeer]

You must be feeling queery to think you've done such a thing.

the rain in Spain ....... :rolleyes:

[Medievalist]

Aye he's a barelwi, and a grave worshpping one at that.

:rotfl:

bro u funnay - reminds me of a saudi shaykh in sheffield.

he thought I was barelwi innit cos he was fresh from saudia and I told him that no I aint like them - they call us wahhabi and he goes what do they call the other type and I go Barelwiyyah, shaykh.

Shaykh - Barelwi? I have hearrrrd of them. Barrrelwi Kaafir , Kaafir.

[Medievalist]

You need to show your type of mujahideens if any .

their type is the Ala Hadrat of Bareilly who gave fatwa that its haraam to fight against british :rotfl: but left a long list of food to be cooked and presented at his grave weekly :rotfl:

[Abu Mus'ab]

Salahudeen Al Ayoubi , Umar Al Mukhtar etc .

Not OBL ( CIA and the gang) alhamdulilah .
They were not your grave worshipping kind, if they were alive then they'd have fought you along with your kuffar friends.

[al faqeer]

They were not your grave worshipping kind, if they were alive then they'd have fought you along with your kuffar friends.
They were not Salafis :) and certainly not snot for brains Jihadi takfeeris .

They were Sufi Mujahideen , the ones who saved islam , oppositte to what the Jihadi Takfeeris are doing of taking Islams Image down the toilet .

[al faqeer]

their type is the Ala Hadrat of Bareilly who gave fatwa that its haraam to fight against british :rotfl: but left a long list of food to be cooked and presented at his grave weekly :rotfl:

Nah Isnt that Bin Baz allowing Americans on Muslim soil ? :D

[Medievalist]

Nah Isnt that Bin Baz allowing Americans on Muslim soil ? :D

quit changing the subject. yr AlA hADRAT declared it haraam to fight the british and now yr peers are the ones who accuse us of being indias stooges :rotfl:

And Sultan Salahuddeen fought the Rawaafidh in egypt such that they never had a kingdom in that land again - and nor will they inshaALLAH

[al faqeer]

:rotfl:

bro u funnay - reminds me of a saudi shaykh in sheffield.

he thought I was barelwi innit cos he was fresh from saudia and I told him that no I aint like them - they call us wahhabi and he goes what do they call the other type and I go Barelwiyyah, shaykh.

Shaykh - Barelwi? I have hearrrrd of them. Barrrelwi Kaafir , Kaafir.


What the Hell is Barelwi . can you people stop with these Paan eater terms .

:)

[al faqeer]

quit changing the subject. yr AlA hADRAT declared it haraam to fight the british and now yr peers are the ones who accuse us of being indias stooges :rotfl:

And Sultan Salahuddeen fought the Rawaafidh in egypt such that they never had a kingdom in that land again - and nor will they inshaALLAH

So ?

[Medievalist]

**roll eyes**

[Abu Mus'ab]

What the Hell is Barelwi . can you people stop with these Paan eater terms .

:)
You should have told your ala hadhrat to stop eating paan.

[al faqeer]

You should have told your ala hadhrat to stop eating paan.

and another one strikes a nerve .

[As-Sideeq]

Asalaamu alaikum,

Subhanallah...
Subjects gone out of hands now, now its just a thread full of insults.

wa alaikum assalaam.

[MMS]

I dont think so , Taleban are Salafis who Sideline Ahlul Bayt , Shia are people who over Glorify Ahlul Bayt , I doubt the MAhdi will be with these 2 extremes .

Allahu a3lam

:wacko::wacko::wacko:

[al faqeer]

:wacko::wacko::wacko:

Are those your self portraits ? :D

[Medievalist]

this guys waste of time

[al faqeer]

this guys waste of time

No I am not salafi .

[Irfan GBH]

The hadith concerning the black flags/ banners from Khurasaan are not Sahih but rather are either da'eef or even mowduh.




Back on topic, would someone explain to me what exactly da'eef and mowduh mean? Also explain any other classifications we should be aware of.

[MMS]

Back on topic, would someone explain to me what exactly da'eef and mowduh mean? Also explain any other classifications we should be aware of.

da'eef = weak
mawdoo = fabricated
sahih = sound
hasan = good

[alld]

their type is the Ala Hadrat of Bareilly who gave fatwa that its haraam to fight against british :rotfl: but left a long list of food to be cooked and presented at his grave weekly :rotfl:

what is he supposed to cook when his turn comes ?

[alld]

this guys waste of time

isn't there a need for some entertainment ? :rubeyes:

[Medievalist]

what is he supposed to cook when his turn comes ?

he doesnt his job is to eat only :rolleyes:

[Medievalist]

isn't there a need for some entertainment ? :rubeyes:

if u want entertainment look at dm shaytaan

[Marwan]

this al faqeer guy sounds familiar...

...if you know what i mean

[Abu Hurairah]

I got no problem with that , Just making a point that it wont be salafis or shia's .
Faqueer, in regards to our Salafi community- do you hate/ dislike them all indiscriminately? Negatively viewing all Salafi brothers and sisters no matter their background or stance on set matters?

Its just you seem to attack them constantly on the forum in your posts and they can do no good by your standards- in this thread http://ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120177 when it was proven that Salafi Mujahideen brethren from Arab lands went forth in the jihaad in Bosnia to fight and defend to death (martyrdom insha'allah) our innocent Bosnian brothers and sisters you actually accused them of going there to marry Bosnian sisters by stating:
I think they more interested in marrying bosnian women than doing Dawah as usual .
Why say such things about our Mujahideen and Shuhadah no matter if their from Salafi backgrounds or other? :lahawla:

[Marwan]

He's an idiot. Ignore him.

He thinks the Taliban are Salafis, and that Salafis go to Bosnia to get laid.

There are 3 people in the Learn About Islam section, who often argue against one another, and I believe they are the same people. He's one of those 3.

You can guess who the other 2 are.

[AbuMubarak]

do not let the hatred of a people swerve you from being just

[AbuMubarak]

regarding the mahdi

interesting, most of us know that in the bible jesus says when he returns, "christians" will not be able to recognize him

mainly because he will be muslim, he will not be this white guy, blonde hair blue eyes

so that speaks for christians

but what about muslims

when isa returns or the mahdi, how do we picture their return, in terms of groups, sect, or anything of that sort

we had a thread some time back, wondering if usamah could have been the mahdi, most said no because of the "terrorism" thing

but each of us have an idea of what the mahdi or even isa would be like, i was wondering what are your thoughts

if i was to say my best concept, it probably would have been someone like usamah, maybe without the "terrorism" ties, but many other things about him, i can picture as being the character and personality and image of what the mahdi may return as

[Abu Hurairah]

The taliban have both black and white flags, the black being Ar Rayah and the white Al Liwah.
Na'am our Afghan brothers use:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8440/twoflagsnx4.gif (http://imageshack.us)
Featured here:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4599/talabanmanpointsly5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Here also:
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/143/khurasaanhw1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Abu Hurairah]

This is one of the flag used by our brothers in Chychan:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2474/chechenqe7.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

This is one of the flag used by our brother in Somalia:
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1323/somaliags1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

These are some of the flags used by our brothers in Iraq:

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/8296/tawhidwaljihadbq0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And also:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7303/iraqiex2.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Plus this too:
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5200/iraqfy7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Abu Mus'ab]

.................

[Marwan]

What is the hadith regarding the people of Sham being upon the path of righteousness?

[al-ghazalli]

What is the hadith regarding the people of Sham being upon the path of righteousness?


Here's one of them


From Jami` al-Saghir of Imam al-Suyuti:

On Sham:

2766- أهل الشام سوط الله تعالى في الأرض، ينتقم بهم ممن يشاء من عباده، وحرام على منافقيهم أن يظهروا على مؤمنيهم، وأن يموتوا إلا هما وغما وغيظا وحزنا
التخريج (برموز السيوطي): (حم ع طب) والضياء عن خريم بن فاتك [ضبطه المناوي بالياء المكسورة: فايك]ـ
التخريج (مفصلا): أحمد في مسنده وأبو يعلى في مسنده والطبراني في الكبير والضياء عن خريم بن فاتك [ضبطه المناوي بالياء المكسورة: فايك]ـ
تصحيح السيوطي: صحيح‏

by the way Sidi Marwan I have made the same mistake twice now, the hadith states Shu'um.

Shu`um= Hijaz,Yemen, The West (al-Maghrib) (Ibn Juzayy al-Kalbi said this was Morocco and Spain)


And Allah Knows Best

[Abu Hurairah]

If all other hadith are false/ fabricated/ weak than this hadith is infallible in regards to the Armies with Black Banners/ Flags for it has a Sahih isnaad:

Sahih ahadith of Muslim Armies with Black Banners to come

"Thawbaan reported that the Prophet (Sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) said, 'Three will fight for the your treasure (of the Ka`bah), each of them the son of a 'Khaleefah', it will be rendered to none of them. Then from the direction of the East will emerge black flags. Then they will fight you like they have fought none before.' Then some words were spoken which I did not remember. He then said, 'If you see him, give bay`ah to him even if you must crawl over ice. For, verily, he is the 'Khaleefah' of Allah (Khaleefatullaah), the Mahdi". This Hadeeth is found in Ibn Maajah, Ahmad's Musnad, al-Haakim's Mustadrak and others.

After analysing the chain of narration found in Ibn Maajah's Sunan the narrators are in the following authentic unbroken reliable chain:

1) Reported to Ibn Maajah by both Muhammad bin Yahya and Ahmad bin Yusuf - Both reliable; Imam Muslim has said about Ahmad bin Yusuf, "He is reliable (thiqqah)." an-Nasaa'i has said, "There is no problem in him." ad-DaraaquTni has said, "Reliable and noble (thiqqah nabeel)."

^

2) `Abdur-Razzaq bin Hammaam as-San`aani - Reliable. Ahmad bin Hanbal was asked about him, "Have you seen anyone better in Hadeeth than `Abdur-Razzaaq?" He replied, "No".

^

3) Sufyaan ath-Thawri - Too reputable to record his merits. Very reliable. Shu`bah, Sufyaan bin `Uyaynah, Abu `AaSim an-Nabeel and YaHya ibn Ma`een among others said: "Sufyaan is the 'Ameer al-Mu'mineen" of Hadeeth"!

^

4) Khaalid bin Mahraan al-Hathaa' - Reliable. Ahmad bin Hanbal has said, "Trustworthy (thabt)." Ibn Ma`een and an-Nasaa'i have both said, "Reliable (thiqqah)."

^

5) Abi Qulaaba Abdullaah bin Zayd al-Harrami - Reliable. Muhammad bin Sa`d has said in his "at-Tabaqah ath-Thaaniyah min Ahl al-Basrah" about him, "He was reliable (thiqqah)."

^

6) Abu Asmaa' `Amroo bin Marthad ar-RaHabi - Reliable. al-`Ijly has said about him, "Shaami, Tabi`ee, Reliable (thiqqah)."

^

7) Thawbaan - Companion and servant of the Prophet (Sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam).

^

8) The Prophet (Sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam). ["Tahtheeb al-Kamaal" of al-Mizzi and "Tahtheeb at-Tahtheeb" of Ibn Hajar were referenced for verification of the Narrators]

In this chain of narrators, weakness is nowhere in sight, subhan'allah.

[al faqeer]

The truth hurts people .

Self righteous saved sect wannabes like pointing fingers , but when fingers are pointed at them , they become so defensive and hurt .

Just shows what the truth does :D .

[Abu Hurairah]

The truth hurts people .

Self righteous saved sect wannabes like pointing fingers , but when fingers are pointed at them , they become so defensive and hurt .

Just shows what the truth does :D .
Who are you typing to and who are you typing about?

[al faqeer]

Who are you typing to and who are you typing about?

I'll tell you when u grow up .

later :) .

[Abu Hurairah]

I'll tell you when u grow up .

later :) .
How old does one have to be to get this 'newly innovated' unwise useless idle talk gheebah?

Not the claimed 35 years of age like you?

[abdusamad]

remember your muslims.

[al faqeer]

How old does one have to be to get this 'newly innovated' unwise useless idle talk gheebah?

Not the claimed 35 years of age like you?


Well I think Jihadi Takfeeris The lost Group Fi'a al Dhaala wal3iyaathu billah can answer that 4 ya :up: .

[abdusamad]

Well I think Jihadi Takfeeris The lost Group Fi'a al Dhaala wal3iyaathu billah can answer that 4 ya :up: .


Akhee your litterally abusing the word jihad. Whats wrong with jihad and those who love it?

Theres a difference between overlooking your brother's mistakes, and being a bystander when someone is making joke out of ibaadat and speaks ill about ikhwaana fil biladul jihaad.


Please stop what your doing.

[al faqeer]

Akhee your litterally abusing the word jihad. Whats wrong with jihad and those who love it?

Theres a difference between overlooking your brother's mistakes, and being a bystander when someone is making joke out of ibaadat and speaks ill about ikhwaana fil biladul jihaad.


Please stop what your doing.

No I am not , Jihad is the backbone of Islam , But the Jihadi Takfeeris are not part of Islam .

[abdusamad]

No I am not , Jihad is the backbone of Islam , But the Jihadi Takfeeris are not part of Islam .


your calling them takfeeris and your doing takfeer on them.


does anyone else smell irony here?

[al faqeer]

your calling them takfeeris and your doing takfeer on them.


does anyone else smell irony here?

No I am not calling them Kafir , I am saying their ideology is not part of islam .

[abdusamad]

No I am not calling them Kafir , I am saying their ideology is not part of islam .


be careful with your words akhee, you said "...jihadi takfeeris are not part of islam"


There is nothing wrong with their ideology.

[al faqeer]

be careful with your words akhee, you said "...jihadi takfeeris are not part of islam"


There is nothing wrong with their ideology.

They are doing nothing but taking Islam backwards , they Kill Innocent people , Like that French people Just outside Madaain Saali7 in KSA who were actually wearing I7raam astaghfiruallah .

They are not part of islam , they are the Real Ahul Bidah and Dhalaala wal 3iyaathu billah .

[abdusamad]

They are doing nothing but taking Islam backwards , they Kill Innocent people , Like that French people Just outside Madaain Saali7 in KSA who were actually wearing I7raam astaghfiruallah .

They are not part of islam , they are the Real Ahul Bidah and Dhalaala wal 3iyaathu billah .

So you just believe what you hear?

what makes you so sure they are "jihadi takfeeris"?

Before even attempting to make 1 excuse you jump for the first accusation you can think of.

Akhee I see you have made up your mind regarding this. There is no further point discussing thing. Ma'assalamah

[al faqeer]

So you just believe what you hear?

what makes you so sure they are "jihadi takfeeris"?

Before even attempting to make 1 excuse you jump for the first accusation you can think of.

Akhee I see you have made up your mind regarding this. There is no further point discussing thing. Ma'assalamah

Off course I did , their actions speak for themselves , they Kill Innocent people Muslims , Dhimis .

In IRaq the Army of islam declared war on these Al Qaeda Jihadi takfeeris (Mossad CIA in direct agents ) .

Its not an accusation It just shows the sick mentallity of Jihadis may Allah SWt rid the ummah of their deviance ameen .

[abdusamad]

Off course I did , their actions speak for themselves , they Kill Innocent people Muslims , Dhimis .

In IRaq the Army of islam declared war on these Al Qaeda Jihadi takfeeris (Mossad CIA in direct agents ) .

Its not an accusation It just shows the sick mentallity of Jihadis may Allah SWt rid the ummah of their deviance ameen .


May Allaah protect them, and May Allaah protect me from you.

[al faqeer]

May Allaah protect them, and May Allaah protect me from you.

Grow a seed and you will have a forest .

Contemplate .

[Abu Mus'ab]

Grow a seed and you will have a forest .

Contemplate .
Grow a brain and you'll become human.

Comtemplate.

[mirwais]

be careful with your words akhee, you said "...jihadi takfeeris are not part of islam"


There is nothing wrong with their ideology.

The group has a fundamentalist Islamic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam) ideology, of which Salafism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafism) is the binding factor. Mainstream adherents of Salafism reject the extreme position of the takfiris, denouncing them as a modern day version of the Kharijites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharijites).
Takfir wal-Hijra takes fundamentalism a step further than most Islamic fundamentalist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism) groups. It advocates armed battle against Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew), Christians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian) and apostate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostate) Muslims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim) to restore the unity of the Islamic world order (ummah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummah)). The ummah is to be led by a Caliph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliph), who rules according to the Sharia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia). Although they are Sunnis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni), the group's warriors are allowed to practice something akin to the Shi'a Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi%27a_Islam) notion of taqiyya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya). This means they can disguise their true principles for protection of their own faith. This allows them to blend in with Western society (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world) and also to disobey all rules of their form of Islam for the goal of destroying Western civilisation from within, a form of antinomianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinomianism). According to this ideology, the warriors will be martyrs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyr) in Paradise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven) after death.
Takfir wal-Hijra's ideology is so extreme that in 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996) the group plotted to assassinate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin) Osama bin Laden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden), supposedly for being insufficiently radical. Many also considered the Taliban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban) movement in Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan) to be unbelievers.[citation needed] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Takfir_Wal_Hijra

[al faqeer]

Grow a brain and you'll become human.

Comtemplate.


Already have one , my name aint mUllah Umar :D

[mirwais]

be careful with your words akhee, you said "...jihadi takfeeris are not part of islam"


There is nothing wrong with their ideology.

Takfir wal-Hijra's ideology is so extreme that in 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996) the group plotted to assassinate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin) Osama bin Laden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden), supposedly for being insufficiently radical. Many also considered the Taliban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban) movement in Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan) to be unbelievers.[citation needed] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Takfir_Wal_Hijra

[mirwais]

Is this hadith not Sahih?

Related by Abu Hurayrah: The Prophet Sallallahu ‘Alaihi Wa Sallam said: "(Armies carrying) black flags will come from Khurasan (Afghanistan). No power will be able to stop them and they will finally reach Jerusalem where they will erect their flags." (Tirmidhi)

[abdusamad]

Takfir wal-Hijra's ideology is so extreme that in 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996) the group plotted to assassinate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin) Osama bin Laden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden), supposedly for being insufficiently radical. Many also considered the Taliban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban) movement in Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan) to be unbelievers.[citation needed] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Takfir_Wal_Hijra

He wasnt talking about that group alone, he is speaking about 'jihadi takfeeris' .... pretty much anyone who believes some of the rulers of the muslim lands are murtadeen (apostates)

[mirwais]

did some googling:D

- Hadith Prophesies On World Wars -

http://www.mail-archive.com/ahli_sunnah_vs_anti_hadith@yahoogroups.com/msg00238.html

[abdusamad]

did some googling:D

- Hadith Prophesies On World Wars -

http://www.mail-archive.com/ahli_sunnah_vs_anti_hadith@yahoogroups.com/msg00238.html

http://www.geocities.com/muslimapocalyptic/WebProphecies.htm


in the last link - the books the 'ahadeeth' are qouted from, i never heard of them.

[mirwais]

He wasnt talking about that group alone, he is speaking about 'jihadi takfeeris' .... pretty much anyone who believes some of the rulers of the muslim lands are murtadeen (apostates)

oh missed that one:D

i think it's clear that some of the rulers of the muslim lands are murtadeen

[abdusamad]

oh missed that one:D

i think it's clear that some of the rulers of the muslim lands are murtadeen



ssshhhhhh or you'll be labelled a 'jihadi takfeeri'

[mirwais]

in the last link - the books the 'ahadeeth' are qouted from, i never heard of them.

thnx for the info missed that also:smack: i will delete that 1...what about the first 1?

[mirwais]

ssshhhhhh or you'll be labelled a 'jihadi takfeeri'

:rofl1:

[mirwais]

Is this hadith not Sahih?

Related by Abu Hurayrah: The Prophet Sallallahu ‘Alaihi Wa Sallam said: "(Armies carrying) black flags will come from Khurasan (Afghanistan). No power will be able to stop them and they will finally reach Jerusalem where they will erect their flags." (Tirmidhi)

[Abu Mus'ab]

Takfir wal-Hijra's ideology is so extreme that in 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996) the group plotted to assassinate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin) Osama bin Laden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden), supposedly for being insufficiently radical. Many also considered the Taliban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban) movement in Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan) to be unbelievers.[citation needed] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Takfir_Wal_Hijra
That's a pile of hogwash, and wikipedia isn't a source.

[mirwais]

That's a pile of hogwash, and wikipedia isn't a source.

are you a source then?:rolleyes: if so...please inform me and give me some proof...thnx bro

is this not the truth?
The group has a fundamentalist Islamic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam) ideology, of which Salafism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafism) is the binding factor. Mainstream adherents of Salafism reject the extreme position of the takfiris, denouncing them as a modern day version of the Kharijites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharijites).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Takfir_Wal_Hijra

[Abu Mus'ab]

are you a source then?:rolleyes: if so...please inform me and give me some proof...thnx bro

is this not the truth?
The group has a fundamentalist Islamic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam) ideology, of which Salafism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafism) is the binding factor. Mainstream adherents of Salafism reject the extreme position of the takfiris, denouncing them as a modern day version of the Kharijites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharijites).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Takfir_Wal_Hijra
Yes i'm a faaar better source than wikipedia *Roll Eyes*

[mirwais]

Yes i'm a faaar better source than wikipedia *Roll Eyes*

any proof for this great statement of yours:rotfl:

[Medievalist]

any proof for this great statement of yours:rotfl:

I second his statement. Im proof. :hidban: :coolbro:

[mirwais]

I second his statement. Im proof. :hidban: :coolbro:

oh do you really?
PROOF IT:banbear: :coolbro:

[Medievalist]

oh do you really?
PROOF IT:banbear: :coolbro:

prove what?

[mirwais]

prove what?

that you are prove:D
anyway we are OFF TOPIC bro

[Marwan]

Extremists exist in every deen. There were groups in Afghanistan, during the war, who killed people for wearing taweez. And the Russians were in their backyard!

But they were all destroyed. TO cast that same accusation against the Mujahideen exhibits a token of stupidity.

[mirwais]

Extremists exist in every deen. There were groups in Afghanistan, during the war, who killed people for wearing taweez. And the Russians were in their backyard!

But they were all destroyed. TO cast that same accusation against the Mujahideen exhibits a token of stupidity.

who is doing that? or you speaking generally...?

[Marwan]

It was a tiny group that existed in Kunar called 'Salafi..something.' Eventually, all other groups got sick of their attacks on civilians and Hekmatyar sent an egyptian to kill the leader.

[mirwais]

It was a tiny group that existed in Kunar called 'Salafi..something.' Eventually, all other groups got sick of their attacks on civilians and Hekmatyar sent an egyptian to kill the leader.

never heard off such a thing in Afghanistan, you have some sources?:)

[Marwan]

you'd have to be old enough to hear something like that. ;)

http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2370192

The first suicide attacker in Afghanistan was in 1992 when an Egyptian fighter for Gulbuddin Hekmatyar in Kunar killed Maulvi Jamil Rahman, a Salafi leader who was against Hekmatyar and headed the Jamaat al-Dawat w'al-Quran wa Sunna group (Payam-e-Mujahid, September 27).

[mahdisoldier19]

Assalam Alaikam,

In my view, i do not believe it is just the Taliban, but other fighters who will join the Taliban to create a unified force.

However we can draw a few conclusions from the Taliban:

1) They are on Haqq, considering Almost every single Kafir country and Taghut regimes reject them currently, Which is a signal that they are from Millat Ibrahim.

2) They apply their laws only from Sharia derived from the Quran and Sunnah

3) The only group to Adequately establish a society based on the Quran and Sunnah

4) The Taliban clothing is a Black turban, white clothing, and they do in fact carry Black flags with the Shahadah written in white on them.