View Full Version : Muslims Must Be Reformed: Marriage Shouldn't Be Impossible
As a non-Muslim who has read a lot of this particular part of UmmahFoum, I've reached this conclusion:
Muslims have made marriage impossible.
(Please note, I did not say that Islam has made marriage impossible.)
After reading a lot of this particular part of UmmahForum, this is what I think:
In order to get married, it is impossible for an ordinary god-fearing Muslim to satisfy both the teachings and spirit of Islam and the requirements of any given culture/family.
You can't do it. (Or your chances of doing it are very slim.)
There are simply too many requirements.
No wonder so many young Muslims are miserable and hopeless.
No wonder so many young Muslims choose to ignore Islam and their culture.
Oh, and, we're not even adding the additional issue of "dowry."
WHAT?
your conclusion is ridiculous.
(*_Hamzah
30-03-07, 07:42 AM
And this analysis was made having spent time on Ummah forum :rotfl:, I would like to see the results if you actually meet Muslim beyone the interent.:hidban:
Look at what I'm saying.
In order to marry the partner must be:
* A good god-fearing Muslim. (How many Muslims meet even that criterion?)
* A good god-fearing Muslim who has never had sex outside of marriage. (Should you happen, yourself, to be 100% chaste.)
* A good god-fearing Muslim who has never had sex outside of marriage and the financial resources to be married.
* A good god-fearing Muslim who has never had sex outside of marriage and has the financial resources to marry and is also of the same nationality.
* A good god-fearing Muslim who has never had sex outside of marriage and has the financial resources to marry and is also of the same nationality and also of the same caste.
* A good god-fearing Muslim who has never had sex outside of marriage and has the financial resources to marry and is also of the same nationality and also of the same caste.
* A good god-fearing Muslim who has never had sex outside of marriage and has the financial resources to marry and is also of the same nationality and also of the same caste and of superior economic status.
* A good god-fearing Muslim who has never had sex outside of marriage and has the financial resources to marry and is also of the same nationality and also of the same caste and of superior economic status and who the family, immediate and extended, considers a "good match."
* A good god-fearing Muslim who has never had sex outside of marriage and has the financial resources to marry and is also of the same nationality and also of the same caste and of superior economic status and who the family, immediate and extended, considers a "good match" and is also a sane, responsible individual.
* A good god-fearing Muslim who has never had sex outside of marriage and has the financial resources to marry and is also of the same nationality and also of the same caste and of superior economic status and who the family, immediate and extended, considers a "good match" and is also a sane, responsible individual, and who is also, objectively speaking, at least somewhat physically attractive.
* A good god-fearing Muslim who has never had sex outside of marriage and has the financial resources to marry and is also of the same nationality and also of the same caste and of superior economic status and who the family, immediate and extended, considers a "good match" and is also a sane, responsible individual, and who is also, objectively speaking, at least somewhat physically attractive and able to hold at least a somewhat adult conversation.
* A good god-fearing Muslim who has never had sex outside of marriage and has the financial resources to marry and is also of the same nationality and also of the same caste and of superior economic status and who the family, immediate and extended, considers a "good match" and is also a sane, responsible individual, and who is also, objectively speaking, at least somewhat physically attractive and able to hold at least a somewhat adult conversation and has never been married before and has no children from a previous marriage.
I mean, seriously. What human being can possibly meet all those criteria?
(*_Hamzah
30-03-07, 08:33 AM
Look at what I'm saying.
I mean, seriously. What human being can possibly meet all those criteria?
Cashew are you married?
Chastely- well I hope no Muslim male or female will disclose there sins about there past- that is between them and Allah soley.
Being able to support your spouse is important but one has to be humble and realaistic enought to accept and live within there means, as many of us are no Arab prince.
The above is your assumptions on Isamic marrgaes but contray to what has been written and Muslim should use as a guide in the Quran and Sunnah- Cashew, fine dont listen to me but you wont remain a councillor for long.
Abu Mus'ab
30-03-07, 08:39 AM
I mean, seriously. What human being can possibly meet all those criteria?
Many many many people.
ibn suleman
30-03-07, 09:03 AM
wow..Cashew i commend u for venturing in this part of the forum..it seems u've learnt a lot. :up:
many of us dont see it like that..all we are supposed to look for is a good muslim!
that is our main criteria..true some have mistaken culture for religion, but that is a gross overgeneralisation.
Cashew are you married?
Chastely- well I hope no Muslim male or female will disclose there sins about there past- that is between them and Allah soley.
Being able to support your spouse is important but one has to be humble and realaistic enought to accept and live within there means, as many of us are no Arab prince.
The above is your assumptions on Isamic marrgaes but contray to what has been written and Muslim should use as a guide in the Quran and Sunnah- Cashew, fine dont listen to me but you wont remain a councillor for long.
My point is that if Muslims followed only Islam, marriage wouldn't be so difficult.
But many Muslims seem to feel that Islam doesn't provide enough rules or qualifications for marriage, and they want to add more and more and more...
You have a valid point when you say that Muslims should keep things simple with regard to marriage Cashew. A Muslim should look to marry a religious Muslim, who is chaste and who has a good character. Any valuable attributes other than those are like the icing on a cake. Most people would prefer to marry someone who is of a similar background to them, who is good-looking and who has enough money for them to live comfotably of course. It would be ideal, but it's not essential. It's human nature to want the best, or at least what is closest to the best. This is not a Muslim issue. Don't people in the West always say: "I'm looking for Mr/ Miss Right. "? Everybody is picky to a certain extent.
You have a valid point when you say that Muslims should keep things simple with regard to marriage Cashew. A Muslim should look to marry a religious Muslim, who is chaste and who has a good character. Any valuable attributes other than those are like the icing on a cake. Most people would prefer to marry someone who is of a similar background to them, who is good-looking and who has enough money for them to live comfotably of course. It would be ideal, but it's not essential. It's human nature to want the best, or at least what is closest to the best. This is not a Muslim issue. Don't people in the West always say: "I'm looking for Mr/ Miss Right. "? Everybody is picky to a certain extent.
Could not have said it any better! May ALLAH REWARD YOU FOR YOUR COMMENT!!! :jkk:
Asmara's requirement list looks the same as what cashew said :scratch:
ImaanSeeker
30-03-07, 06:46 PM
Look at what I'm saying.
I mean, seriously. What human being can possibly meet all those criteria?
I know of many.
Bint Yusuf
30-03-07, 07:05 PM
Asalamu Alaykum
I agree to with cashew to a certain EXTENT
some muslims make marriage impossible because of themselves, they don't realise that certain things ie. physical looks are desirable qualities in a potential spouse where as...
some muslims beleive its a compulsory quality in a future spouse!
I don't agree with cashew saying that what muslims can be classified under those catergories because i know some! No offence but you can't make generalisations like that without having met every single person in the ummah(muslimhood). It's like saying every english person has once in their life cheated on their partner! Doesn't seem like a valid point eh?
oh Allah, what are you talking about Cashew?
every muslim gets married. i dnt knw any muslim spinsters!!!
how do muslims make it hard to get married?? just take a closer look.
Khubaib
30-03-07, 07:34 PM
Many of the requirements you listed are false unless you are referring to parents' expectations.
For example having the same nationality.
Al Aqsa
30-03-07, 07:49 PM
Hey Cashew,
I can understand how you may have come to that conclusion but it is a gross generalisation! Muslims who practise their religion are taught to look at one thing and that is God consciousness (Taqwa) before anything else. Now obviously that will be the first criteria and after that will come other things but these are merely preferences that an individual has - Muslim or non Muslim, things like mutual attraction, stability, similar interests and so on.
Muslims who do not practise Islam correctly will look at other things but these fall outside the teachings of Islam and as you have said it becomes almost impossible for these people. This is the beauty of Islam, if we stick to the correct teachings and we implement this in our lives then we will have ease and success and if we don't then we wont!
:)
I got the idea for this topic from a Muslim participant who said something like, "Marriage and family are often the saddest subject for Muslims to discuss..."
I think what surprises me is that Qu'ran and Sunnah are actually very liberal and enthusiastic about marriage. (As I said in another topic, you could argue that much of Qu'ran is actually a story about the beauty of marriage and what a powerful force it can be for good when husband and wife love, support, and respect each other.)
But what I've noticed is that many (most?) Muslims are far more conservative in their concept of marriage than are Qu'ran and Sunnah. They've added many rules and requirements that have nothing to do with Qu'ran and Sunnah.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that while Qu'ran and Sunnah make marriage easy, Muslims have made marriage difficult.
Peacenik
30-03-07, 09:28 PM
I've said this before and I'll say it again :
Why can't I find a Cindy Crawford lookalike for a missus ?
Is that too much to ask ?
Cashew i agree with ur last post, the first 2 posts, u have a point to a major extent, its just u should have said some muslims:) not Muslims, the latter is a generalising. as not all muslims are that fussy.
non the less i understand ur sentiments.
take care
Quest
I've said this before and I'll say it again :
Why can't I find a Cindy Crawford lookalike for a missus ?
Is that too much to ask ?
she is over rated.
anyways..........
LiveIslam
30-03-07, 10:15 PM
My point is that if Muslims followed only Islam, marriage wouldn't be so difficult.
I don’t understand sum people why look at the action of some Muslim. If u had dun ur research on our beloved prophet and the companions then you would know how easy and simple it was for them to get married.
LiveIslam
30-03-07, 10:17 PM
[quote=Cashew;1759689
I guess what I'm trying to say is that while Qu'ran and Sunnah make marriage easy, Muslims have made marriage difficult.[/quote]
i see u understand :rolleyes:
Phoenix CG
30-03-07, 10:19 PM
I haven't fully read what he has said, but Muslims have made marriage very hard to an extent, theres so much material requirements, money, house, car, etc...i mean being able to support and get by is one thing u need, but friggin being rich as hell and being "succesful" n stuff, now thats a diff story.
Abdelrhman
30-03-07, 10:39 PM
I can't believe I'm actually saying this...
Oh man I'm scared too say it...
...
...I actually agree with this kaffir.
Muslims nowadays have turned marriage into the BIGGEST RUNNING JOKE ON THE PLANET. I mean, kaffirs have also turned it into a big joke, but who cares about 'em lool I'm talkin' about important stuff here.
It's SOOOOOO ridiculous. I'm not gonna bother pointing out everything that's wrong with it, because Cashew pointed it out very well. If Muslims would judge by Islam then there wouldn't be as many problems, and young Muslims wouldn't be forced to follow their desires as often as they do nowadays.
Prophet Muhammad :saw: said if you're happy with their religion, then MARRY THEM. THAT'S IT.
But noo, you have to check if they have a degree or not. How's the income? Where's he/she from? How's his status in the community? We don't believe him, get a check-up first. Ask the entire community if they saw him do anything wrong in the past 10 years. Okay, get engaged for 2 years to get to know each other. Okay dowry is set to 50,000 for the daughter, 100,000 for the father. When you're done saving up let me know. Oh btw how many stories is your house going to be? When do you want to have kids? 5, 6 years? Sounds good. Wife allowed to work? Has her own car? Do you have any diseases running in the family?
JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKE!!!!
Cashew i agree with ur last post, the first 2 posts, u have a point to a major extent, its just u should have said some muslims:) not Muslims, the latter is a generalising. as not all muslims are that fussy.
non the less i understand ur sentiments.
For example, when I read how, in Saudi Arabia, young men have to postpone getting married for years, if not decades, because they don't have "enough" money, when "enough" money in Saudi terms is actually a lot of money, I think it's sad.
I think it puts people in an impossible situation.
Islam tells Muslims:
= Marriage is half your deen.
= Marry when you're young.
= When you find a potential partner who's a good Muslim and whom you're attracted to, marry that person as soon as you can.
= It's a great thing to marry widows and divorced women.
So, there's all this encouragement in Islam to marry, but all these (unIslamic) roadblocks to marriage constructed by Muslims.
It's gotta be tough.
.: Anna :.
30-03-07, 10:40 PM
Cashew u have a point, some ppl make it so hard and restrict the choice of spouse so much, and this is not beneficial or good and not something Islam told them to do...
but its not everyone who does like that. I think ppl gave u an exagerated impression because many ppl dont have all these problems. I know a lot of people my same age & younger (like 18-20) married or getting married, while still studying or just finished uni and not from the same nationalities etc and its not such a big problem. Ur just focusing on a certain type of people, the very culture and "what will people think?" type parents... who do exist of course, but its not everyone and its not that close to everyone
For example, when I read how, in Saudi Arabia, young men have to postpone getting married for years, if not decades, because they don't have "enough" money, when "enough" money in Saudi terms is actually a lot of money, I think it's sad.
I think it puts people in an impossible situation.
Islam tells Muslims:
= Marriage is half your deen.
= Marry when you're young.
= When you find a potential partner who's a good Muslim and whom you're attracted to, marry that person as soon as you can.
= It's a great thing to marry widows and divorced women.
So, there's all this encouragement in Islam to marry, but all these (unIslamic) roadblocks to marriage constructed by Muslims.
It's gotta be tough.
ditto
i dont disagree with u at all here or in ur previous post, i agree with most of ur 1st two posts. its just the use of MUSLIMS instead of SOME/MOST muslims that is hard 2 swallow
as we are not all the same.
:up:
i understood u didnt mean it like that though, for ur other posts in other threads stand as great precedents.
Peacenik
31-03-07, 12:19 PM
I can't believe I'm actually saying this...
Oh man I'm scared too say it...
But noo, you have to check if they have a degree or not. How's the income? Where's he/she from? How's his status in the community? We don't believe him, get a check-up first. Ask the entire community if they saw him do anything wrong in the past 10 years. Okay, get engaged for 2 years to get to know each other. Okay dowry is set to 50,000 for the daughter, 100,000 for the father. When you're done saving up let me know. Oh btw how many stories is your house going to be? When do you want to have kids? 5, 6 years? Sounds good. Wife allowed to work? Has her own car? Do you have any diseases running in the family?
:rofl1:
So true...
:D
For example, when I read how, in Saudi Arabia, young men have to postpone getting married for years, if not decades, because they don't have "enough" money, when "enough" money in Saudi terms is actually a lot of money, I think it's sad.
I think it puts people in an impossible situation.
Islam tells Muslims:
= Marriage is half your deen.
= Marry when you're young.
= When you find a potential partner who's a good Muslim and whom you're attracted to, marry that person as soon as you can.
= It's a great thing to marry widows and divorced women.
So, there's all this encouragement in Islam to marry, but all these (unIslamic) roadblocks to marriage constructed by Muslims.
It's gotta be tough. ur spot on, and it is tough and it makes me quite upset to see this kind of thing going on because when u come to Islam and u took the time to read and study and find the truth then u find men came and hijacked issues of marriage in ur religion and added their own two pence worth ( and lets not pretend it doesnt exist- it really does,and ive personally witnessed it time and time again)
take one example, a muslim women over 30 is already written off as "too old" to think about marriage even by some men of their own age, no one in my community would consider looking for a husband for me as no one understands why someone "so old" would want to marry at that age and have more children anyway. and in this case "so old" means being just a few years over the age of youth and perfection, the age we will all enter jannah at insha Allah ta ala we make it there, and younger than khadijah radillahu anha was when she married Muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam
Its completely ridiculous and as u truely stated cashew its not from Islam, may Allah ta ala guide us to having the mentality of muslims who understand the Quran and sunnah and leaves their discriminations at the door, amin.
so wether its age or race or whatever lets get over the preduidices, and misconceptions insha Allah
LiveIslam
31-03-07, 12:37 PM
some ppl make it hard for them self coz they want to impress the community. All i can say those ppl is that the community wont help you on the day of judgement.:mad:
Peacenik
31-03-07, 12:42 PM
*sigh*
I think I've given up looking for a 5ft 8, blonde, blue-eyed partner, athletic build, with heaps of intelligence and wisdom.
*sighs (again)
*sigh*
I think I've given up looking for a 5ft 8, blonde, blue-eyed partner, athletic build, with heaps of intelligence and wisdom.
*sighs (again)
ah well malesh , i believe it was abu musab who once quoted someone, who said something like " i found the perfect woman, trouble was she`s still looking for the perfect man "
rayan.r
31-03-07, 01:18 PM
Yes it is a huge problem. Specifically the marrying within one's own social group... the reason being, that for the large part Muslims are the only ones to practice indirect inbreeding in the world today. By that I mean, marrying within one's family (1st cousins) so that all the ridiculous requirements are satisfied, this has resulted in nations like Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, and Egypt having very high levels of birth defects.
You can't continually marry within your family and not expect harm to occur
However, I would like to point out that finding a pious Muslim who has not had sexual relations is not hard, and there is no reason, ever, to compensate on these two things.
inbreeding? were not dogs u know
rayan.r
01-04-07, 09:34 AM
Do you know what inbred means?
Inbreeding is marrying within one's family. It is a genetic term, and the effect on one's genes cannot be refuted.
Abu Mus'ab
01-04-07, 11:09 AM
ah well malesh , i believe it was abu musab who once quoted someone, who said something like " i found the perfect woman, trouble was she`s still looking for the perfect man "
This is the story,
Mulla Nasrudin was sitting in a tea shop when a friend came excitedly to speak with him.
“I’m about to get married,” his friend said, “and I’m very excited.”
“Congratulations,” Mulla Nasrudin said, pokerfaced.
“Tell me, Nasrudin, have you ever thought of marriage yourself?” the friend asked Mulla Nasrudin, a chronic bachelor.
Nasrudin replied, “I did think of getting married. In my youth, in fact, I very much wanted to get married.”
“So, what happened?” the friend asked curious.
“I wanted to find for myself the perfect wife,” Nasrudin said, “so I traveled looking for her, first to Damascus. There I met a beautiful woman who was gracious, kind, and deeply spiritual, but she had no worldly knowledge. Then I traveled further and went to Isphahan. There I met a woman who as both spiritual and worldly, beautiful in many ways, but we did not communicate well.”
“Then?” the friend asked.
“I kept on searching for a perfect wife and traveled all over the world meeting many women,” Nasrudin explained.
“And did you find her?” the friend asked eagerly.
“Yes,” Nasrudin said, “after traveling all over finally I went to Cairo and there after much searching I found her. She was spiritually deep, graceful, and beautiful in every respect, at home in the world and at home in the realms beyond it. I knew I had found the perfect wife.”
“Then why did you not marry her?” the friend asked excitedly.
“Alas,” said Nasrudin as he shook his head, “She was, unfortunately, waiting for the perfect husband.”
jazakAllahu khair :up: masha Allah
Noor_Usman
01-04-07, 11:57 AM
Asalamalikum.
It's a good point. It is sunnah to marry outside of your tribe, thus bringing two communities together and yet many parents try to keep the 'culture' of marrying to cousins and other relations thus keeping it all in the family.
Dowery is also not part of Islam and yet my husband has been told on both our ceremonies (we had one in uk and one in pk) that he had to give me (at least a portion of) the dowery before we could be married :rubeyes:
There is also the point of the right of divorce which I was "granted" in the 2nd ceremony......I beleive it is my right as a muslim woman to ask for divorce if I wish :smack:
Asalamalikum.
It's a good point. It is sunnah to marry outside of your tribe, thus bringing two communities together and yet many parents try to keep the 'culture' of marrying to cousins and other relations thus keeping it all in the family.
Dowery is also not part of Islam and yet my husband has been told on both our ceremonies (we had one in uk and one in pk) that he had to give me (at least a portion of) the dowery before we could be married :rubeyes:
There is also the point of the right of divorce which I was "granted" in the 2nd ceremony......I beleive it is my right as a muslim woman to ask for divorce if I wish :smack:
wa alaikum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh ukhti, a man paying a dowry is an obligation upon a man in Islam sister because of the ayat of the Quran: “And give to the women (whom you marry) their mahr (obligatory bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) with a good heart…” al-Nisaa’ 4:4 heres some more info:
The mahr (dowry) is the right of the wife
Question:
Assalamualaikum,
I would like to know the Islamic view point of Dowry. Is it permisible or is it a sin? If it is wrong, what should a person do who has taken dowry?
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
In Islam the mahr (dowry) is one of the rights of the wife, which is hers to take in total and is lawful for her, in contrast to the widespread practice in some countries, where the wife is given no dowry. Evidence that the wife must be given her dowry is found in many places, for example the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “And give to the women (whom you marry) their mahr (obligatory bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) with a good heart…” [al-Nisaa’ 4:4]
Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “This refers to the mahr (dowry).”
Ibn Katheer, may Allaah have mercy on him, said, summarizing the comments of the mufassireen on this aayah: “The man must definitely pay the dowry to the woman, and he should not resent it.”
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “But if you intend to replace a wife by another and you have given one of them a cantar (of gold, i.e., a great amount) as mahr, take not the least bit of it back; would you take it wrongfully without a right and (with) a manifest sin? And how could you take it (back) when you have gone in unto each other, and they have taken from you a firm and strong covenant?” [al-Nisaa’ 4:20-21]
Ibn Katheer, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: “This means: if any one of you wants to divorce his wife and replace her with another, you should not take anything from what you have already given the first wife, even if it was a huge amount of wealth. The mahr is given in exchange for the right to enjoy marital relations. For this reason Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And how could you take it (back) when you have gone in unto each other…?” The “firm and strong covenant” is the marriage contract.
Anas ibn Maalik, may Allaah be pleased with him, reported that ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ‘Awf came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and there were traces of yellow (perfume) on him. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) asked him about it, and he told him that he had just married a woman of the Ansaar. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) asked him, “How much did you give her?” He said: “Gold equal to the weight of one date stone.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Give a waleemah (wedding feast) even if only with one sheep.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 4756).
The mahr is the right of the wife, and it is not permitted for her father or anyone else to take it except with her approval. Abu Saalih said: “When a man married off his daughter, he would take her mahr away from her, but Allaah forbade them to do that, and gave women the right to the mahr they received.” (Tafseer Ibn Katheer).
Similarly, if the wife foregoes any part of the mahr, the husband is permitted to take it, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “… but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it, take it, and enjoy it without fear of any harm (as Allaah has made it lawful).” [al-Nisaa’ 4:4]
And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
and also a woman has the right in Islam to ask for a khula (a divorce instigated by a woman against a man) if she is not being treated properly and given the rights that Allah ta ala has ordered a husband to give to his wife. :up:
AbuMubarak
01-04-07, 12:50 PM
in spite of all of these "impossibilites", muslims get married and have been getting married for the past 1400 years
AND...................
we have LOTS of BABIES
cashew, your conclusions are seriously flawed
On the surface, the problem is clear as crystal but I think there are some issues that need mentioning.
The most basic template of marriage/choosing a spouse is being introduced to someone privately and then having a short time to get to know each other. It is not possible in anyway to have the kind of time where you'd develop emotions for the individual - so in a sense, you can only grasp certain characteristic traits of them e.g. their deen, their appearance etc.
You'll have those to base your decision on. For a young girl, she is only looking after her personal interests, aswell in most cases, the interests of her immediate family when she makes requests/requirements of her potential husband.
These on face-value can be difficult or even ridiculous for the man, but then again what do you expect? Sisters throwing themselves at you desperately wanting to be your wife at any cost (pardon the pun)?
No.
They hardly know you to make that jump of faith to give themselves to you so easily, so in some cases they are selfish in their requests/requirements to make up for some things.
And that's only in regards to the wife. Dealing with her family is another chapter.
in spite of all of these "impossibilites", muslims get married and have been getting married for the past 1400 years
AND...................
we have LOTS of BABIES
cashew, your conclusions are seriously flawed
What your comment lacks is the understanding that times have changed since the past 1400 years. It's a different world, a different society and culture and basically, the younger generation lack the means to marry in comparison to young people 1400 years ago where they had better means to meet the requirements (which were different then) of 1400 years ago.
So it's not right to compare then with now.
AbuMubarak
01-04-07, 01:05 PM
Kal-El
I am married, i have 14 kids, seven grandkids
tell me how things have changed
Noor_Usman
01-04-07, 01:17 PM
Asalamalikum.
Acha I know where I went wrong :rolleyes: . Thinking one thing and typing another lol. I meant such a high dowery that the groom could not afford to divorce the wife. The people standing in place of my family tried to set mine for £1000! But my husband settled with £600.
But the rules of paying the dowery are all wrong. Our friends agreed a dowery which was to be paid in full on divorce. My first ceremony the mulvee insisted on my husband paying the full dowery (legal minimum of £101 apparently) up front other wise he would not marry us.
The 2nd ceremony (the £1000 in pk one lol) They insisted on whatever he had in his pocket (£60) up front but then the certificate says that over the years he has to pay me £600 when its possible for him to do so (going off the idea he'd earn in R and not £). But surely this would make my dowery £660??? lol coz it does not say to knock off the £60 already paid.
These can't ALL be right....I mean....it is haram surely to force the groom to pay such a dowery that he can not afford to divorce his wife :(
I read something about one of the caliphs telling muslims off for giving too much dowery to their wives. I also understood that dowery was not nessicerily money but things she would need like pots and pans etc.
Asalamalikum.
Acha I know where I went wrong :rolleyes: . Thinking one thing and typing another lol. I meant such a high dowery that the groom could not afford to divorce the wife. The people standing in place of my family tried to set mine for £1000! But my husband settled with £600.
But the rules of paying the dowery are all wrong. Our friends agreed a dowery which was to be paid in full on divorce. My first ceremony the mulvee insisted on my husband paying the full dowery (legal minimum of £101 apparently) up front other wise he would not marry us.
The 2nd ceremony (the £1000 in pk one lol) They insisted on whatever he had in his pocket (£60) up front but then the certificate says that over the years he has to pay me £600 when its possible for him to do so (going off the idea he'd earn in R and not £). But surely this would make my dowery £660??? lol coz it does not say to knock off the £60 already paid.
These can't ALL be right....I mean....it is haram surely to force the groom to pay such a dowery that he can not afford to divorce his wife :(
I read something about one of the caliphs telling muslims off for giving too much dowery to their wives.
i see this type of thing in egyptian culture a lot too ukhti the dowry should be paid at the time of marriage not "to divorce a woman" u pay the dowy the day u get married, and the only thing a dowry has to do with divorce is that if a woman asks for khula then she has to return her dowry, but there is nothing in Islam says a man keeps the dowry then pays it to her in divorce or anything like that, u pay it on the day of the nikkah in good faith.
Noor_Usman
01-04-07, 01:24 PM
Asalamalikum.
Thank you. I know I read it all ages ago and forgot most of it but it still seems silly that 3 nikkahs (2 of them mine!) have all had different rules.
.....I mean....my husband giving or depriving me of the RIGHT of divorce in writing on my wedding day? :rubeyes:
Asalamalikum.
Thank you. I know I read it all ages ago and forgot most of it but it still seems silly that 3 nikkahs (2 of them mine!) have all had different rules.
.....I mean....my husband giving or depriving me of the RIGHT of divorce in writing on my wedding day? :rubeyes:
wa alaikum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh yes ukhti its strange, and three nikkahs lol i dunno whats going on sometimes, how can u marry someone that u were already married to in the first nikkah, and then u try and marry them for a second time and then again for a third time.. looks like they confused that one with how many times a man can divorce a woman before being unable to return her back to him again :smack:
may Allah ta ala help us, and guide us all ukhti amin
barakAllahu feeki amin
Noor_Usman
01-04-07, 01:34 PM
Lol well we had the nikkah in the uk but as my husband is not a national we needed a recognised wedding ceremony for his visa so we went to pk and did nakkah there to make it legal (as home office wouldn't let him to a registery marraige in uk) so that is why I have had 2 with the same guy. :D
The other wedding was a friends a few years ago.
* A good god-fearing Muslim who has never had sex outside of marriage and has the financial resources to marry and is also of the same nationality and also of the same caste.
Believe in a caste system is only a Paki thing. Islam does not teach it.
Supernova Nebula
01-04-07, 02:40 PM
Believe in a caste system is only a Paki thing. Islam does not teach it.
i thought its only in hinduism? the paki muslims too have caste system?
summer786
01-04-07, 02:43 PM
i thought its only in hinduism? the paki muslims too have caste system?
yeh :embar: obviously copied the hindus next door, but nowadays only the elders still ask about it. It's still gets in the way sometimes, one of my auntie's had to break off a prospective partner just before they got engaged just coz some old auntie in their family found out about our caste. *shakes head*
honestly
AbuMubarak
01-04-07, 02:44 PM
Believe in a cast system is only a Paki thing. Islam does not teach it.
they have it in hollywood too
Tahiyah
01-04-07, 04:14 PM
Kal-El
I am married, i have 14 kids, seven grandkids
tell me how things have changed
lol, Mashaa Allah
May Allah t'ala make every last one of 'em pious believers..
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