My understanding of Adam (as)

[Marwan]

All Islamic scholars that I know of, let's say most, have always explained creation chronologically with human frame of reference. I see no sign of that in Quran. They also contradict themselves in saying that the 'light of man' was created long before everything else. Now we know that everyTHING also includes time.

The story of Adamhis wife is not the 'FIRST DAY' of a being as we view time and history. This did not happen twenty thousand or fifty thousand years ago. I see no evidence of that in Quran. It describes the spirtual coming to being of mankind on a day usualy refered to AZAL, with no begining or an end. It will be contrary to our definition of Allah to think that he talked to angels telling them about creating Adam so many years ago'.
Most debates are founded on this [in my view] naive assumption on both sides. Those who attack the notion of Adam and Eve and those who defend it.

I have often wondered but never dared to ask. Adam (as) is described as an individual in Paradise. This is a state of being, not a place of being. The assumption again is naive to think of him as a lone man sitting under tree.

My view is that we were all there. His story is not the story of our ancestor but every human being. It is that collective soul.

[Al-Irhaab]

All Islamic scholars that I know of, let's say most, have always explained creation chronologically with human frame of reference. I see no sign of that in Quran. They also contradict themselves in saying that the 'light of man' was created long before everything else. Now we know that everyTHING also includes time.

The story of Adamhis wife is not the 'FIRST DAY' of a being as we view time and history. This did not happen twenty thousand or fifty thousand years ago. I see no evidence of that in Quran. It describes the spirtual coming to being of mankind on a day usualy refered to AZAL, with no begining or an end. It will be contrary to our definition of Allah to think that he talked to angels telling them about creating Adam so many years ago'.
Most debates are founded on this [in my view] naive assumption on both sides. Those who attack the notion of Adam and Eve and those who defend it.

I have often wondered but never dared to ask. Adam (as) is described as an individual in Paradise. This is a state of being, not a place of being. The assumption again is naive to think of him as a lone man sitting under tree.

My view is that we were all there. His story is not the story of our ancestor but every human being. It is that collective soul.

huh :scratch:

[Medievalist]

Innaa lillahi wa innaaa ilayhi raaji'oon.

The classical ulama are clear on the issue. The first man created was Sayyidina Abba Aadam alayhis salaam -anyone who denies this has deviated.

[Abu Mus'ab]

huh :scratch:
Ditto

[Marwan]

huh :scratch:

You know, I look back at that post and sort of wonder the same thing.


Innaa lillahi wa innaaa ilayhi raaji'oon.

The classical ulama are clear on the issue. The first man created was Sayyidina Abba Aadam alayhis salaam -anyone who denies this has deviated.

Brother, in the future, please ask for clarification from me. I am not denying Adam (as) being the first creation. If I sound suspicious, just ask me to clarify.

What I'm suggesting is that Adam (as) was created in Janna but in an existence not constrained by time, or 'place of being.'

JANNAH is a place. Most likely not how we define a 'place' to be (Because of the Hadith that nothing about Jannah has ever been thought by a human).

A place= A limiting bound defining and ENCLOSING a region in a bigger region.

That is the 'earth' definition of a place.
When I said a State Of Being, was refering to a spiritual state of being in Jannah and not a TIME LIMITED PERIOD OF BEING which is more commonly understood.

[Abu Mus'ab]

I didn't get that either.

[Medievalist]

Marwan your post sounded confused. I was stating the facts - if it came across as suspicion then I apologise and ask you to forgive me.

And ditto to AM - still dont knw what you're chatting about.

[Um Abdullah]

me neither
didn't get it especially this >> a spiritual state of being in Jannah
can you clearify more please

[Marwan]

Marwan your post sounded confused. I was stating the facts - if it came across as suspicion then I apologise and ask you to forgive me.

Medievalist, what I'm essentially saying is, we tend to order things from beginning to end. Scholars (upon them be peace) do this too. We say, 'Adam (as) was created, then Bibi Hawaa (as), then this, then this... etc."'

But we neglect the notion of time, which is also a creation of Allah (swt). Time does not exist in this case, as we know that Janna has no end. But to say one thing happened earlier than the other, you're inadverdantly placing the constraint of time on their creation.

I'm guessing you guys still think I'm whacked/high. I'll end it now, as I feel it would bring up useless arguments and people will question each other's aqeeda (who am I kidding? they'll question my aqeeda).

[Al-Irhaab]

Medievalist, what I'm essentially saying is, we tend to order things from beginning to end. Scholars (upon them be peace) do this too. We say, 'Adam (as) was created, then Bibi Hawaa (as), then this, then this... etc."'

But we neglect the notion of time, which is also a creation of Allah (swt). Time does not exist in this case, as we know that Janna has no end. But to say one thing happened earlier than the other, you're inadverdantly placing the constraint of time on their creation.

I'm guessing you guys still think I'm whacked/high. I'll end it now, as I feel it would bring up useless arguments and people will question each other's aqeeda (who am I kidding? they'll question my aqeeda).

nope i dont question ur aqeedah.... but that dont mean ive got a clue what your talking about :outta:

went swish right over me .... these discussions are things i dont go into detail with for a reason...

i mean not like im gonna be asked about whether i believed jannah had a time or not etc etc..

[Medievalist]

I think you're thinking too much philsophical stuff bro. What is time? Is time created? How is a timeless time measured? What is eternity? etc etc

aint in our understanding - all we need to know is that First Sayyidina Aadam was created, then Sayyidatuna Hawwa alayhas salaam. and we maintain silence over what ALLAH has not told us.

:salams

[Raul-7]

I have a question, was it Iblis who whispered to Adam and Hawa (pbut) to eat from the tree? If it was him, how did he re-enter Paradise if Allah (swt) banished him from it before this event took place? Not that I doubt the correctness, but I was need someone to explain it as it is due to my lack of understanding.

[Um Abdullah]

bro marwan
what benefit will we get from that?
like Irhaab said, it's not of much benefit, and it might actually cause more harm than benefit to go into details of things like these.

[Ibn Sina]

Akhi where did you come up with this? I'm confused ... and more than usual ... :scratch:

[Peacenik]

I don't see the point of this thread.

We shouldn't question things that we know nothing about, otherwise doubts will creep in.

[Marwan]

Peacenik & Co. What do you think is less beneficial. Discussing our understanding of Islam with our new understanding of quantum physics & time or...

-saying al-CIAda every other thread.
-calling all non-Salafis murtads

This has nothing to do with 'creating' doubt in people's minds. This is what they call evolution of thought.

And stop re-surfacing this thread. We already ended the conver. long ago.