Niqaab?

[rayan.r]

Naturally, you are likely to receive 100 different views on this.

Here is my two cents.

I do not believe the niqaab has any place in traditional Islam, but I will accept the right in a free society for women to choose to wear such a garment (if it were my nation I would ban the niqaab). Anyhow, I think even given this 'unique' interpretation of Islam, I think a wave would be no problem.

The command to be kind and know one's neighbour is one of the most important aspects of Islam with respect to interpersonal relations. If they are not fulfilling their obligations by being kind to you, that is their downfall in their relgion. I would say there would be nothing kinder then a wave.

Secondly, I would just like to applaud your tolerance, for posing the question in such a kind and thoughtful manner, may God bless you!

[Strict2TheSunna]

Naturally, you are likely to receive 100 different views on this.

Here is my two cents.

I do not believe the niqaab has any place in traditional Islam, but I will accept the right in a free society for women to choose to wear such a garment (if it were my nation I would ban the niqaab). Anyhow, I think even given this 'unique' interpretation of Islam, I think a wave would be no problem.

The command to be kind and know one's neighbour is one of the most important aspects of Islam with respect to interpersonal relations. If they are not fulfilling their obligations by being kind to you, that is their downfall in their relgion. I would say there would be nothing kinder then a wave.

Secondly, I would just like to applaud your tolerance, for posing the question in such a kind and thoughtful manner, may God bless you!

Please, do not talk about Islam nor niqaab with no knowledge. Thank You.

[rayan.r]

Sorry, but I am speaking with quite a bit of knowledge. Judging someone without knowing them, is in fact a sin, so please do not become arrogant with your views.

I clearly stated that this was 'my two cents' and this is based on research and intensive study, and the fatwas of numerous scholars who I respect.

[Nazias]

I do not believe the niqaab has any place in traditional Islam, but I will accept the right in a free society for women to choose to wear such a garment (if it were my nation I would ban the niqaab). Anyhow, I think even given this 'unique' interpretation of Islam, I think a wave would be no problem.

:rubeyes: Oh, another 'traditional Islam' moment :rolleyes: what would that not include the Quran and sunnah? :aku_astaghfirullah:

[Al-Irhaab]

Sorry, but I am speaking with quite a bit of knowledge. Judging someone without knowing them, is in fact a sin, so please do not become arrogant with your views.

I clearly stated that this was 'my two cents' and this is based on research and intensive study, and the fatwas of numerous scholars who I respect.

two cents is cheap at least have a dollar on u... :rolleyes:

numerous scholars for cents wont change islam even though they might want to :rolleyes:

[rayan.r]

Brother,

I respect your rights to hold which view you deem correct, but do not discount mine and label them as incorrect or judge me, as only Allah knows what is correct and I am not judging you, it shows an misunderstanding of Islam.

I will not go through the 19-20 hadiths I have on the topic by Umar ibn Al-Khattab (ra), Anas ibn Malik (Ra), Ali (ra), Aisha (ra), because I accept your right to have your opinion.

Do not mention the Qur'an because it accommodates both your belief and mine.

[Al-Irhaab]

Brother,

I respect your rights to hold which view you deem correct, but do not discount mine and label them as incorrect or judge me, as only Allah knows what is correct and I am not judging you, it shows an misunderstanding of Islam.

I will not go through the 19-20 hadiths I have on the topic by Umar ibn Al-Khattab (ra), Anas ibn Malik (Ra), Ali (ra), Aisha (ra), because I accept your right to have your opinion.

Do not mention the Qur'an because it accommodates both your belief and mine.

anyone who says that the niqaab has no place in islam is either misguided or a liar... :rolleyes:

i dont respect your right to hold views... i mean anyone can say they have the right to hold views and come out with rubbish.. like for example people who say music is allowed...

[.: Rashid :.]

Brother,

I respect your rights to hold which view you deem correct, but do not discount mine and label them as incorrect or judge me, as only Allah knows what is correct and I am not judging you, it shows an misunderstanding of Islam.

I will not go through the 19-20 hadiths I have on the topic by Umar ibn Al-Khattab (ra), Anas ibn Malik (Ra), Ali (ra), Aisha (ra), because I accept your right to have your opinion.

Do not mention the Qur'an because it accommodates both your belief and mine.

Actually, please do. We'd be very interested in any sahih hadith you have narrated by/said by any of the above, which say the niqab has no place in Islam. Very interested.

-Rashid

[rayan.r]

First off, I wil say this.

May Allah guide us all to whatever is right, but also to the people remembering this, it is the intention in Islam that counts, not the act. So be pious in your intention and Inshallah all unintentional sins will be forgiven.

This is based on research I have done and gained from imams I have spoken to. I would also like to point out that anyone with a history background would know that the niqab is a relatively modern invention, that did NOT exist in Islamic times.

"Say to the believing men to lower their gazes and guard their chastity," (An-Nur: 30)
"And say to the believing women to lower their gazes and guard their chastity, and let them not display of their charm - except what is apparent." (An-Nur: 31)

These are the verses no one will question. The interpretation of these verses is at the crux of the matter.

Now Ibn Abbas said, about the phrase “what is apparent,” "It means face and hands." Meaning that everything BUT the face and hands should be covered.

Also, commenting on ‘what is apparent’

Narrated by Ibn Kathir, “The hand, the ring, and the face” by Ummar ibn Al-Khattab (ra) and Anas Ibn Malik “the hand and the ring and the face”

Bibi Aisha (ra) "By Allah, I never saw more excellent women than those of the Ansar in their zeal to believe and act according to the Revelation. When Allah revealed the verse, "and let them draw their veils over their bosoms", their men rushed to their homes in order to recite the same to their wives, daughters and sisters and relatives. No sooner they heard the verse, everyone of their women without exception rushed to cut a piece of their long gowns and covered themselves with it, and thus they stood behind the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) with their heads covered as if they had crows sitting on them (because of the color of their head-scarves)!"

In the Qur’an it says.

"And tell the believing women to lower their eyes, and guard their modesty, and that they display not their ornaments except what appears of them. And that they draw their scarves (khumurihinna) over their bosoms…"

Anyone who speaks Arabic (I am born in Saudi Arabia) will know that khumur means head-covering and that was all it meant for the history of Islam, and it is the reason why the garment for hajj does NOT include the face being covered.


I will give more if needed.

[Al-Irhaab]

no one is disagreeing with the valid islamic opinion that nikaab is not obligation.... what is being disagreed with is the jahil opinion that the nikaab has no place in islam...

if you look to the ahadith you will see that in addition to the ones you posted there are hadith that state only one eye of the women were showing... also it is clear cut that the wives of the prophet (SaW) wore nikaab and they are the best women to immitate... there are many threads on the proof of niqaab just do a search for them...

[rayan.r]

Brother,

I have looked through them, and I am not convinced, and I hold my opinion.

I will never tell anyone in my family that they should have niqab, because I believe it is not an Islamic thing, I think that it prohibits women from being active in their roles in society, simpe things like grocery shopping, and attending family dinners or playing with children outside become difficult for these poor women.

I will accept anybody who believes it is part of their Islamic duty. What I am saying, is I too have the right to believe it is AGAINST the teachings of Islam.

[Nazias]

I will never tell anyone in my family that they should have niqab, because I believe it is not an Islamic thing, I think that it prohibits women from being active in their roles in society, simpe things like grocery shopping, and attending family dinners or playing with children outside become difficult for these poor women.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion and fair enough but :rubeyes: it's not a disability! Alhumdulillah, I still do all of the above!

Please explain how a niqab would prevent one from doing such things?

[Strict2TheSunna]

Allah Says:

"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the believing women to cast their jalaabeeb (pl. of jilbaab) over themselves. That will be better, that they should be known, so as not to be bothered." (surah Al -Ahzaab:59)

Ibn Katheer said: "Muhammad bin Sireen said: "I asked 'Ubaydah As-Salmaanee about Allah's statement: 'to cast their jalaabeeb over themselves' so he covered his face and (only) exposed his left eye."

Ibn Al-Jawzee (rahimahullah) said concerning this aya: "it means taht they must cover their heads and faces so that they may be known as free women. The definition of a jilbaab is a loose outer garment, as has been stated by Ibn Qutaybah."

These are just few statements of the scholars of tafsir from our pious predeccesors.

It is authentically reported that Aishah covered her face with the khimaar when she heard the voice of Safwaan bin Mu'attal As-Sulamee. And she stated that he used to know her (how she looked like) before the Hijaab was obligated. This proves thatt after the ayah of Hijaab was revealed, the women could not be recognized because of the fact that they veiled their faces.

It is authentically reported in the sunan as well as other (hadeeth) collections that Aishah (radyAllahu Anhaa) said: "Male horsement would ride past us while we were in the state of Ihraam with Allah's messenger peace be upon him. So when they would come near us, (each) one of us would let her jilbaab fall down from the top of her head over her face. When they had passed by, we would uncover (our faces) again." The only reason they did this was because they knew its religious ruling, which was that the face is 'awrah and that it must be covered in front of male strangers.

Narrated Abdullah Bin Mas'ood radyAllahu An that the Prophet Peace be upn him said "The women is 'Awrah."

The great Imaam, Ahmad Bin Hanbal, May Allah have mercy on him, understood well the afore-mentioned hadeeth of Ibn Mas'ood as he said "A woman's fingernail is 'awrah (i.e. must be covered). So when she goes out from her home, she must not reveal any part of herself, not even her khuff, for the khuff describes the foot. What is preferred in my opinion, is that she put a button on her sleeve where her hand is so that nothing could be exposed from her."


There are many other proofs. To say it is not from Islaam is absurd. If you want to have a difference of opinion, fine. But to say not part of islam, absurd.

[Al-Irhaab]

Brother,

I have looked through them, and I am not convinced, and I hold my opinion.

I will never tell anyone in my family that they should have niqab, because I believe it is not an Islamic thing, I think that it prohibits women from being active in their roles in society, simpe things like grocery shopping, and attending family dinners or playing with children outside become difficult for these poor women.

I will accept anybody who believes it is part of their Islamic duty. What I am saying, is I too have the right to believe it is AGAINST the teachings of Islam.


that is where you are mistaken you dont have the right to hold that opinion :rolleyes: because its not an opinion only ignorance and falsehood.

[.: Rashid :.]

Brother,

I have looked through them, and I am not convinced, and I hold my opinion.

I will never tell anyone in my family that they should have niqab, because I believe it is not an Islamic thing, I think that it prohibits women from being active in their roles in society, simpe things like grocery shopping, and attending family dinners or playing with children outside become difficult for these poor women.

I will accept anybody who believes it is part of their Islamic duty. What I am saying, is I too have the right to believe it is AGAINST the teachings of Islam.

I'm sorry bro, but you don't.

The wives of the Prophet (SAW) wore the niqab...there is plenty of evidence for this. You are claiming that the wives of the Prophet (saw), the Umm ul mumineen, were doing something which was "against islam"?

-Rashid

[ur_yusra]

One of my professors whose a sarcastic kaafir told my freind to put the 'nikaab' on so it would keep her quiet and make her shut up:rubeyes: ..

[rayan.r]

I can dispute every single source of information you used, and cite misinterpretations of Arabic, and historical inaccuracies.

However, as mentioned, I was putting my opinion out there, which is based on Islamic opinions, it is not something I pulled out of my head.

Therefore, my point remains, I reserve the right that Niqab is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. I am not insulting anyone here who holds a contrary view.

Historically speaking, the niqab was not used this is fact. If you look at chronicles of the first Muslims in Abyssinia, Chinese and Indoensian traders who traded with Muslims. The Caucasians who dealt with the Babylonians, there was NEVER a report of Niqab, only Hijab.

[Al-Irhaab]

I can dispute every single source of information you used, and cite misinterpretations of Arabic, and historical inaccuracies.

However, as mentioned, I was putting my opinion out there, which is based on Islamic opinions, it is not something I pulled out of my head.

Therefore, my point remains, I reserve the right that Niqab is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. I am not insulting anyone here who holds a contrary view.

Historically speaking, the niqab was not used this is fact. If you look at chronicles of the first Muslims in Abyssinia, Chinese and Indoensian traders who traded with Muslims. The Caucasians who dealt with the Babylonians, there was NEVER a report of Niqab, only Hijab.

you dont reserve the right for anything...

perhaps you should reserve the right to keep your jahil opinions to urself and shut up yer mouf :rolleyes:

[Nazias]

I can dispute every single source of information you used, and cite misinterpretations of Arabic, and historical inaccuracies.

Ok but you still haven't answered my question, how does wearing a niqab stop one from doing everyday things as you stated?

[Strict2TheSunna]

I can dispute every single source of information you used, and cite misinterpretations of Arabic, and historical inaccuracies.

Talk is cheap, do it.

However, as mentioned, I was putting my opinion out there, which is based on Islamic opinions, it is not something I pulled out of my head.
And I pulled that dhaleel out of my head?

Therefore, my point remains, I reserve the right that Niqab is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. I am not insulting anyone here who holds a contrary view.
You forgot the word "invalid" after remains.

Historically speaking, the niqab was not used this is fact. If you look at chronicles of the first Muslims in Abyssinia, Chinese and Indoensian traders who traded with Muslims. The Caucasians who dealt with the Babylonians, there was NEVER a report of Niqab, only Hijab.
So your basing your Islam on the way some muslims practiced it. There's your problem.

[ur_yusra]

you dont reserve the right for anything...

perhaps you should reserve the right to keep your jahil opinions to urself and shut up yer mouf :rolleyes:

Highly intellectual response.

Anyway to the starter of this thread.. you believe in hadith right? logistics bore me so hows this..

Abu Dawood Book 10, Hadith # 1829
Narrated Aisha (RA), Ummul Mu'minin: (Radhiallaahu Ánha) who said, "The riders would pass us while we were with the Messenger of Allah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam). When they got close to us, we would draw our outer cloak from our heads over our faces. When they passed by, we would uncover our faces.

[rayan.r]

This will be my last post, as I can see that this will end up very nasty, if any future posts are made by me.

I have travelled to over 50 countries, and I have visited mosques and spoken to Imams in every country I have been to. Historically, no Muslim nation used the niqab.

It is my opinion that it hinders movement, and prevents females from having a genuine connection with the world around them. Women played an active albeit different role in traditional Muslim societies, where there was NO barrier in the masjid between women and men, they simply prayed behind the men, and held their own meetings and had community projects for improving the city/town. Such a women cannot play an active role with the niqab.

[Strict2TheSunna]

Can you make it your last post on this forum please.

[Nazias]

It is my opinion that it hinders movement, and prevents females from having a genuine connection with the world around them. Women played an active albeit different role in traditional Muslim societies, where there was NO barrier in the masjid between women and men, they simply prayed behind the men, and held their own meetings and had community projects for improving the city/town. Such a women cannot play an active role with the niqab.

:rubeyes: what worries me is that you're serious! I can do everything I did before and if anything feel more able to do since wearing niqab. You sound very much like the media and the mass hysteria which they create in regards to niqab!

[ur_yusra]

This will be my last post, as I can see that this will end up very nasty, if any future posts are made by me.

I have travelled to over 50 countries, and I have visited mosques and spoken to Imams in every country I have been to. Historically, no Muslim nation used the niqab.

It is my opinion that it hinders movement, and prevents females from having a genuine connection with the world around them. Women played an active albeit different role in traditional Muslim societies, where there was NO barrier in the masjid between women and men, they simply prayed behind the men, and held their own meetings and had community projects for improving the city/town. Such a women cannot play an active role with the niqab.

I'm sorry did you not see my post..?

Although I am aware that there was no barrier in the masjid which leads me to the question.. did women pray in niqaab?

[Nazias]

I'm sorry did you not see my post..?

:rolleyes: selective reading/replying.

[Niqaabi]

rayan this arguement is pointless.
no one here with beliefs from Qur'an and Sunnah, people who follow the examples of the Prophet :saw: and his wives and companions will not respect your opinion that niqaab has no place in islam especially since the women (the best women in islam) wore it and were encouraged by the prophet :saw: to wear it.

You bring your proofs that say niqaab is not OBLIGATORY and i will accept that, you bring me proofs that say niqaab is MUSTAHAB and i will accept that. But you come to me and say take my opinion, then no your falling into extremism, you come to me and say niqaab has no place in islam and it was brought recently, then your a liar and there is no point in this thread.

And as for intentions being what counts and not the act, thats silly, does this mean i can drink alcohol with the intention that i was thirsty?
Intention is important, but so is the action, which is why if you have an intention to do something Allah gives you one reward, if you carry it out you get 10times that.

[bint]

anyone who says that the niqaab has no place in islam is either misguided or a liar... :rolleyes:

i dont respect your right to hold views... i mean anyone can say they have the right to hold views and come out with rubbish.. like for example people who say music is allowed...


yeah i second that!!!:up:

rayan ure causing damage here..u need :help:

ill give u help...leave this thread whilst u can:D

[Umm 'Umarah]

This will be my last post, as I can see that this will end up very nasty, if any future posts are made by me.

I have travelled to over 50 countries, and I have visited mosques and spoken to Imams in every country I have been to. Historically, no Muslim nation used the niqab.

It is my opinion that it hinders movement, and prevents females from having a genuine connection with the world around them. Women played an active albeit different role in traditional Muslim societies, where there was NO barrier in the masjid between women and men, they simply prayed behind the men, and held their own meetings and had community projects for improving the city/town. Such a women cannot play an active role with the niqab.

as you said yourself, that's your opinion. you cannot base your sole opinion to make such a huge generalisation on the significance and the practicality of Niqaab.

have your wore a Niqaab yourself? are you female? are in a scholar?

It's a commandment of Allah(SWT) something you shouldn't hinder your opinion in.

[Niqaabi]

Such a women cannot play an active role with the niqab.

oh really? then how do i play an active role in my community? :rolleyes:

[ur_yusra]

oh really? then how do i play an active role in my community? :rolleyes:

Maybe because you can't communicate with men effectively? Namely Jack Straw.

[Nazias]

Maybe because you can't communicate with men effectively? Namely Jack Straw.

Oh :crying: i so wanna talk to Mr Straw! I have plenty to say to him in regards to his decisions in Iraq! :rant:

[Al-Irhaab]

oh really? then how do i play an active role in my community? :rolleyes:

maybe she/he/it thinks your superwoman :D in a niqaab disguise that is :rotfl:

[Umm 'Umarah]

I can dispute every single source of information you used, and cite misinterpretations of Arabic, and historical inaccuracies.

However, as mentioned, I was putting my opinion out there, which is based on Islamic opinions, it is not something I pulled out of my head.

Therefore, my point remains, I reserve the right that Niqab is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. I am not insulting anyone here who holds a contrary view.

Historically speaking, the niqab was not used this is fact. If you look at chronicles of the first Muslims in Abyssinia, Chinese and Indoensian traders who traded with Muslims. The Caucasians who dealt with the Babylonians, there was NEVER a report of Niqab, only Hijab.

:rubeyes:

please provide the evidences of where it is AGAINST Islam.

[Al-Irhaab]

Highly intellectual response.

Anyway to the starter of this thread.. you believe in hadith right? logistics bore me so hows this..

Abu Dawood Book 10, Hadith # 1829
Narrated Aisha (RA), Ummul Mu'minin: (Radhiallaahu Ánha) who said, "The riders would pass us while we were with the Messenger of Allah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam). When they got close to us, we would draw our outer cloak from our heads over our faces. When they passed by, we would uncover our faces.

yes it was wasnt it... perhaps it was too intellectual for u :D

mayve u shld go back to the thread abt getting ur mum a present :outta:

[ur_yusra]

yes it was wasnt it... perhaps it was too intellectual for u :D

Unfortunately your intellect was unable to comprehend my sarcasm.. :(

[P3X-018]

Against islamic teachings?

You got disproved by this

Abu Dawood Book 10, Hadith # 1829
Narrated Aisha (RA), Ummul Mu'minin: (Radhiallaahu Ánha) who said, "The riders would pass us while we were with the Messenger of Allah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam). When they got close to us, we would draw our outer cloak from our heads over our faces. When they passed by, we would uncover our faces.

So why is it that you are so much against niqab? Really.
You're not a female who has to wear it and it's not obligatory.
You can't see their faces, is that so much of a problem to you? I'm not married yet, so I feel uncomfortable when talking to a sister, even if they're wearing hijab, because you still see their faces. It would make it alot easier if it were a niqab, then you could just look at the "face" and talk :).
But maybe you just want to look at women?... :asta:

[Niqaabi]

maybe she/he/it thinks your superwoman :D in a niqaab disguise that is :rotfl:
*bumps Ummah Heros thread* :D
This guy obviously needs to go and re-learn his islamic history. Nuff SED Lyk! :D:D:D

[Al-Irhaab]

Unfortunately your intellect was unable to comprehend my sarcasm.. :(

unfortunately ur sarcasm was too sad for my intellect to care :rolleyes:

[ur_yusra]

unfortunately ur sarcasm was too sad for my intellect to care

Gosh low blow how do I retaliate..:rubeyes:

To the drawing table :rolleyes:

[Al-Irhaab]

Gosh low blow how do I retaliate..:rubeyes:

To the drawing table :rolleyes:

forget the drawing table to go the ironing board ul be more use there :rolleyes:

[ur_yusra]

forget the drawing table to go the ironing board ul be more use there :rolleyes:

Ironing what? My revision notes? Nah I like em creased. Thanks for the concern though.

[S@Z]

do you two - al irhaab & ur yusra - always at loggerheads ?!

[ur_yusra]

do you two - al irhaab & ur yusra - always at loggerheads ?!

Whats a loggerhead and are you implying that I am one? :o

[S@Z]

Whats a loggerhead and are you implying that I am one? :o
LOL - nooo Astaghfirullah! i was not implying in literal sense [loggerhead > an un-intelligent person] :nono:

at loggerhaeds > involved in an arguement / quarrel

[ur_yusra]

LOL - nooo ! i was not implying in literal sense :nono:

at loggerhaeds > involved in an arguement / quarrel

lol..

I think this thread should be binned asap..

[perfectpearl]

SISTER

I wear NIQAB and love it. IT IS part of the religion. It is a Sunnah not a fard. Which means it is by choice and not obligatory. Islam is not a culture its a religion. For us a religion is a way of life.

The niqab lets men have no bad thoughts of you. It makes the women feel percious and not just an object. I am pretty sure most of the people her already explained it so thats it for my say.