View Full Version : How close a friend can you be with a non-muslim?
summer786
09-03-07, 07:23 PM
Some of me best friends are non muslims, but my mum and aunt think a Muslim can't even become close friend with a Muslim of a different sect!
I suppose it depends on how close your religion is to you in everything you do. It's just I understand where they're coming from but I just want to see how many people feel that way.
I think there's a Hadeeth that says you should keep your distance with non muslims or something along those lines.
Any thoughts?
Masumah
09-03-07, 07:30 PM
There is a hadith of the prophet describing friends using the analogy of a blacksmith and a musk seller. I do not have the exact words so will paraphrase.
The prophet sed if one was to spend their time in the company of a blacksmith wen they walked away from them they will smell of of unpleasant fumes from his work. Likewise if one was to sit in the company of a musk seller he will walk away smellin of beautiful scent, this is how ur freinds are. If u are in compnay of those freinds who do not follow the religion and are nt upon the deen then u will walk away wid sum of der influences, but if u are to sit with those od deen ie. the musk seller then u will walk away with the perfume of deen.
with regards to the above hadith i will say that yes be freinds with non-muslims and use that as way of doing dawah to them and teach them about ur religion but be wary that ur own deen is nto threatened and u are not influenced by them in ways that wud affect ur deen. Also it is excellent advice to sit in compnay of those and be freinds with those who ave knowledge fo deen that way u will benefit from them not only in this lfie but the next inshAllah
my two cents :)
ur_yusra
09-03-07, 07:40 PM
You are your company.
Having said that I can't hang around with a non muslim for more than five minutes if its not for the sake of giving dawah.
Some of my best friends are non-Muslim, and some of them are political so we discuss politics often. They respect and agree with some of my opinions, and I respect and agree with some of theirs. It's very humble when we talk politics, even when we're on hot issues like War. It's cos we know, at the end of the day, we go way back and we're friends.
That still means something to people even now.
I honestly dont discriminate or favour one over another. I have plenty Muslim friends too, and its easier to talk to them about some subjects only Muslims would understand. In a sense, I'm drawn to Muslims because we agree on almost everything and I don't feel alienated when socialising (e.g. a non-Muslim could go out drinking or something).
I think having friendships with non-Muslims has its benefits - you gain mutual understanding and no one insults the other. So it's like this forum but where everyone is friends :D Cool thought huh?
But choose your mates closely - non of mine are bad people, in fact you'd probably like some of them if i got them to sign up here. But I wanna remain anonymous :D
Khubaib
09-03-07, 07:56 PM
I don't think we are allowed to be "friends" with non-muslims :scratch: but if your intention is to make them comfortable with you for da'wah this should be fine. I didn't know this either until I started learning more.
http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=2179&ln=eng&txt=friends
I think you can make friends with non-muslims but then you should take care that they dont influence you with anything bad or draw you away with their bad ideas and thoughts.
Also you should try and make it a point to try talking to them about Islam and if even one converts and becomes a Muslim then you will earn ajar and also it will influence on your other non-muslim friends InshAllah.
Medievalist
09-03-07, 09:39 PM
You can get along with them, have them as good associates but not as a close friend unless there is something seriously wrong with your values OR they are very close to Islaam.
P3X-018
09-03-07, 10:25 PM
I think you can make friends with non-muslims but then you should take care that they dont influence you with anything bad or draw you away with their bad ideas and thoughts.
Also you should try and make it a point to try talking to them about Islam and if even one converts and becomes a Muslim then you will earn ajar and also it will influence on your other non-muslim friends InshAllah.
Indeed. It's best to have muslims as friends, so that you can all help each other to stay on the right path and fear Allah swt. If you hang too much around with non-muslims you'll slowly start to adapt to their way of thinking, and maybe do some of the things they do that is wrong in islam.
Just like a group of muslims can help you stay on the right, a group of non-muslims can have the exact opposite effect.
But by this, I'm not saying don't talk to non-muslims and ect. just that you should be closer to your muslims friends than to non-muslims.
(*_Hamzah
21-03-07, 12:20 AM
There is a hadith of the prophet describing friends using the analogy of a blacksmith and a musk seller. I do not have the exact words so will paraphrase.
The Blacksmith and the Perfumery
Mansour Abdul Hakim
Nida'ul Islam Magazine
On the authority of Abu Musa al-Ash'ari (radiAllahu anhu), the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) said:
"The likeness of a righteous friend and an evil friend, is the likeness of a (musk) perfume seller and a blacksmith. As for the perfume seller, he may either bestow something on you, or you may purchase something from him, or you may benefit from his sweet smell. And as for the blacksmith, he may either burn your clothes, or you may be exposed to his awful smell."
[Bukhari and Muslim]
This is one of the many narrations from the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam), which is striking in its simile, wonderful in its rhetoric, and ingenious in its explanation. The Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) would always explain concepts in the simplest way, and yet their effect on the human heart would be fantastic. This is especially important considering human beings are of all different cultures, intellects and understandings, and the words of the Messenger (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) transcend all these barriers.
"The likeness of a righteous friend and an evil friend, is the likeness of a (musk) perfume seller and a blacksmith.."
This first sentence is the object of the hadith-friendship. In the Arabic, the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) starts with the restrictive word innama, which is very difficult to incorporate into the English translation while at the same time maintaining its coherence. The inclusion of this first word means the comparison that the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) is making is a very exact one, even though it may not be literal.
There is no doubt friendship is an integral part of life for all human beings. A very interesting point is that the Arabic word for human is insan. Scholars have pointed out there may be several words where insan is derived from. One of these is isti'nas, which means pleasure or joy from another's company. This implies that human beings are naturally social, communal creatures, who have a need for each other. Here the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) recognises this fact and gives a stern warning, as well as some warm advice.
In fact, the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) has frequently stressed on the importance of one’s friends or immediate social surrounds. For example, he (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) said:
"A man is on the religion of his close friend, so each of you should look to whom you take as close friends."
This powerful advice stems from Revelation, as Allah (Ta'ala) created human beings to be social. It is also backed by thousands of years of human experience, and is also corroborated by modern science. Countless completed studies suggest that peer pressure is vital in the way humans behave, particularly in our youth, driving them towards smoking, drugs, alcohol and vulgar sexual behaviour.
Even more seriously, an evil social group eventually drives one to negligence in obligatory actions and disbelief. An example of this, discussed later, is even mentioned in the Qur'an. So how does this work? The Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) explains:
"As for the perfume seller, he may either bestow something on you, or you may purchase something from him, or you may benefit from his sweet smell.."
The company of the righteous friend is where the heart is at rest, and where the spirit is in harmony. It is the person who makes one truly happy. He/she provides encouragement during times of hardship and is also there to provide motivation in times of ease. But most importantly, the righteous friend improves one’s Islamic character and Iman.
According to the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) the benefit comes in three forms. Firstly, he may provide you with an easy avenue for good deeds, such as reminding you of Allah (subhanahu wa Ta'ala) or perhaps telling you a hadith you have never heard. In essence, he has provided you with a gift.
Secondly, he may provide you an avenue to good deeds that perhaps requires some effort on your part, such as encouraging you to give charity.
Thirdly, you may simply benefit from his presence, which provides an inner sense of peace, and a softening of the heart, as Allah (subhanahu wa Ta'ala) describes:
"Then your hearts became hardened after that, so they were like stones or even harder still. There are some stones from which rivers gush out, and others which split open and water pours out, and others which crash down from the fear of Allah. And Allah is not unaware of what you do."
[Surah al-Baqarah; 2:74]
This verse, revealed about the Children of Israel due to their constant rejection of numerous signs and miracles from Allah, actually has a lesson for all of us. Everyone, especially in the society we live in, is subject to a hardening of his or her heart over time, so that emotion becomes an almost passive experience.
Yet the righteous friend is a beacon towards the remembrance of Allah, and Allah (Ta'ala) mentions that not all stones remain hard. Some have rivers gushing out, explained by the scholars as an abundance of tears (due to the love and fear of Allah). Others have water flowing out, meaning a lesser amount of tears, while others crumble out of their fear of Allah, like mountain tops do after the wear and tear of centuries.
But the most special thing about a virtuous friend is that no matter what, you always gain from them-there is nothing to lose. As the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) explains, you either end up possessing a sweet smell or at least experience it while the meeting endures.
"And as for the blacksmith, he may either burn your clothes, or you may be exposed to his awful smell."
Accordingly, the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) described the antithesis of the righteous friend as someone wholly different from the perfume seller. The blacksmith is a man who works with metal.
During the days of the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam), and to a lesser extent these days, these metalworkers laboured for hours in a choking, smoky environment of extreme heat in order to design their desired object. Again the comparison by the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) is superbly astute. In the company of the blacksmith one is permanently harmed by the heat or even the sparks resulting from the labour. This means one has adopted an evil habit from the one he keeps company. If not, then the very company of the blacksmith gives no relief to the conscience.
In fact it is the opposite. Like a dark cloud of pollution, the influence of the sinful friend restricts the chest and leaves the spirit in a constant state of anxiety and discord, as Allah describes those that are led astray: "When He desires to misguide someone, He makes his breast narrow and constricted, as if he were climbing into the sky. That is how Allah defiles those who have no Iman."
[Surah al-An'am; 6:125]
In one of the most dramatic scenes painted in the Qur’an, Allah (Ta'ala) says:
"On the Day when heaven is split apart in clouds, and the angels are sent down rank upon rank. The Kingdom that Day will belong in truth to the All-Merciful. It will be a hard Day for the disbelievers. The Day when a wrongdoer will bite his hands and say, ‘Alas for me! If only I had gone the way of the Messenger! Alas for Me! If only I had not taken so and so for a friend! He led me astray from the Reminder after it came to me’."
[Surah al-Furqan; 25:25-29]
This verse was revealed about Uqbah ibn Mu’it, who proclaimed the Shahadah after the insistence of the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam). However, Ubayy ibn Khalaf was a close friend of Uqbah, and also an ardent enemy of Islam. Under ‘peer pressure’ of ibn Khalaf, Uqbah renounced his Islam and will subsequently suffer a great torment on the Day of Resurrection, as Allah (Ta'ala) revealed in the above verses. This is just one example from history about the effect that a friend may have on the individual.
Another extremely important Qur’anic moral a Muslim must adopt is the abandonment of a discussion if it involves ridiculing or disparaging Islam in any way. Allah (Ta'ala) says: "It has been sent down to you in the Book that when you hear Allah’s signs being rejected and mocked at by the people, you must not sit with them till they start talking of other things. If you do not you are just the same as them."
[Surah al-Nisa; 4:139]
This act is of such great significance that merely sitting with an evil group of people can result in the negation of one’s Islam. This again highlights the importance of selecting a social group that will advance the spiritual and mental well being, rather than slowly dragging them towards the Hellfire.
In our community, it is the youth who are prone to this path of deviation. It is too easy for an impressionable young Muslim to completely lose a lifetime of Islamic upbringing after trying to ‘fit in’ with a group of evil friends. Smoking, drugs, nightclubs and illegal sexual acts are just some of the more common vices that our youth fall into under the influence of their ‘friends’.
Although the family can be a positive influence, it is ultimately up to each individual to choose which group to belong to, both in this life and the Hereafter. It is up to each individual to choose whether they will be burnt, or will smell of the sweetness of musk.
(*_Hamzah
21-03-07, 12:27 AM
In short Summer786, ask yourself are your frineds brining you closer to Jannah or hell?
Islam is such an interesting religion.
This particular belief must present any number of remarkable challenges to reverts/converts to Islam who have non-Muslim parents, spouses, children, etc.
Imagine the cozy bedtime scene in which the revert/convert reads The Happiest Bunny, or some other bedtime story, to his tiny non-Muslim child. Father and child laugh together and enjoy the story, but, all too soon, the tiny non-Muslim needs to sleep. The father kisses the tiny non-Muslim good-night, but secretly thinks, "I must not get too close to this non-Muslim because, without doubt, he as a non-Muslim in his heart necessarily despises Islam, seeks its destruction, and would like nothing more than to lead me into the hellfire."
Imagine the even somewhat more challenging scene in which the revert/convert to Islam climbs into bed next to his non-Muslim spouse. Of course, they've shared the same bed very happily for many years, but now things are different. The non-Muslim spouse reaches out to embrace her Muslim hubby, but surely he must think, "I cannot allow myself to grow too close to this non-Muslim. It's certain that she harbors in her heart hatred toward Islam and Muslims and longs for the destruction of Islam. She would like nothing better than to lead me into shirk."
I mean, let's be honest. If you can't be "close friends" with a non-Muslim, you can't very well be a parent, child, or spouse of a non-Muslim. Those relationships are far closer than "close friends."
I don't know whether or not people are talking about "friends" or "close friends" when they say we can't be allowed to be friends with non-Muslims.
:scratch:
That says it all about this thread.
Islam is such an interesting religion.
This particular belief must present any number of remarkable challenges to reverts/converts to Islam who have non-Muslim parents, spouses, children, etc.
Imagine the cozy bedtime scene in which the revert/convert reads The Happiest Bunny, or some other bedtime story, to his tiny non-Muslim child. Father and child laugh together and enjoy the story, but, all too soon, the tiny non-Muslim needs to sleep. The father kisses the tiny non-Muslim good-night, but secretly thinks, "I must not get too close to this non-Muslim because, without doubt, he as a non-Muslim in his heart necessarily despises Islam, seeks its destruction, and would like nothing more than to lead me into the hellfire."
Imagine the even somewhat more challenging scene in which the revert/convert to Islam climbs into bed next to his non-Muslim spouse. Of course, they've shared the same bed very happily for many years, but now things are different. The non-Muslim spouse reaches out to embrace her Muslim hubby, but surely he must think, "I cannot allow myself to grow too close to this non-Muslim. It's certain that she harbors in her heart hatred toward Islam and Muslims and longs for the destruction of Islam. She would like nothing better than to lead me into shirk."
I mean, let's be honest. If you can't be "close friends" with a non-Muslim, you can't very well be a parent, child, or spouse of a non-Muslim. Those relationships are far closer than "close friends."
When people revert to Islam the children of reverts will be raised on the religion of their parents if they are under the age of puberty,after that they will decide for themselves, as Allah ta ala says that every child is born on the fitrah ( Al Islam submission to Allah ta ala and knowing that Allah is almight God) but it is the parents who teach him to be a christian or a jew etc. in the case of a man who reverts he will stay with his wife and children if his wife is a christian or a jew, and if shes not then he should raise the children as muslims. No parent is going to see his children in the way u have described children are innocent subhanAllah
For a woman reverting to Islam after the iddah ( 3 months) then if her husband doesnt revert to Islam then she should leave him, as a muslim woman cannot be married to a non muslim as he will not take care of her properly, nor give her any of the rights that Allah ta ala has given women.
The Point is cashew as the hadiths posted above explain its about the company u keep. Freindship is often about having things in common, a certain connection with people, and its hard to have that same strong connection with someone who is not of your faith as they will not understand where your coming from,this isnt only with muslims but that goes for anyone i know a christian woman who has an atheist boyfreind and she knows well that she should not be with a disbeliever and often laments about this and the sins she is committing, so this is not something common to Islam only.
It makes u feel somwhat alone to be with someone who is not of your faith, and u crave to be with people who understand their purpose in life those who love and worship Allah alone. When i reverted to Islam i no longer wanted to do what my freinds were doing, my lifestyle is different to theirs im still in touch with a few of them but we have nothing in common anymore,we dont do the same activites, they have no interest in religion and we have very little to talk about, and they also by the same token feel the same way about me and so we meet sometimes on middle ground and on all sides there is a good understanding that our paths have gone different ways, and its really not a problem, they have no more desire to have me sat in the pub next to them dressed in hijab than i do to join them there, and even when i wasnt a muslim they knew better than to invite me to such places.
Chained_Water
21-03-07, 12:18 PM
My friend of going on 12 yrs was non-muslim.. we became best friends as the yrs went by and she became Muslim two and half yrs ago mashaAllah :)
People don't fall into black and white boxes.. just because someone is not officially Muslim doesn't mean that Islam isn't in their hearts.. and even if it isn't.. just because they are not Muslim doesn't mean they will necessarily be a bad influence on you, perhaps your influence on them will be stronger, perhaps your own identity will be stronger.. perhaps they will be a good influence on you and make you think abou your own beliefs more
You have to make your own judgement on how frienships affect you.
During the time me and my then non-muslim friend got closer, I cut ties with other Muslim friends who started taking drugs, smoking, hanging about with dodgy blokes because they would not take advice and leave it so I said fine I ain't gna be a part of this and dnt wanna be around u when u doing it.. whereas my non-muslim friend was more on the straight and narrow than anyone and kept the rest in check.
abdul Mateen
21-03-07, 01:06 PM
Salaams
I was actually pondering over this last weekend. I have a close friend that is not a muslim and we have been friends for about 15 years. I thought about the years of friendship, and if he has been a positive influence in my life, and he has been. I can honestly say that he has shown thru out the years that he is trustworthy and of good character. During the years, he has been a person that has had my back thru good and bad times. Now that I am muslim, should I disregard those things? Now, we obviously don't agree on everything, but I believe that he has my best interest at heart and wants the best for me, as I do for him. He is suppostive of my new way of life (islam). As a muslim, I understand what is halal and what's haraam and it's up to me to strive to stay away from what is forbidden. I say, take the good and leave the bad, and pray that you know the difference. Having all muslim friends would be ideal, but where I am from, it's not reality.
Abu Mus'ab
21-03-07, 03:12 PM
You can get along with them, have them as good associates but not as a close friend unless there is something seriously wrong with your values OR they are very close to Islaam.
I concur.
the majority of my friends happened to be non muslims who would wait for me outside the mosque till we finished prayers :)
however they were friends as a outcome of secular education we shared .
Chained_Water
21-03-07, 03:17 PM
the majority of my friends were non muslims who would wait for me outside the mosque till we finished prayers :)
good stuff mashaAllh :up: ..should invite them in though!
.: Rashid :.
21-03-07, 04:07 PM
about 99.5% of my friends are all kafirs...they're a bad influence on me too :(
But...the only other alternative is to have NO FRIENDs in school...hmm...
Insha'Allah it'll be best to just try not to get influenced by them...
Thats one reason why I can't wait to get to uni...where I can mix with Muslims and insha'Allah have a good influence :)
Although having kafir friend has been advantageous in many ways as well...I think I kind of allowed them to influence me negatively by having low taqwa myself...I remember when I first started practicing they didn't effect me. But anyhow, they're all human, mostly very nice people ( :p ) and its "educational" if you get what I mean.
-Rashid
good stuff mashaAllh :up: ..should invite them in though!
I forgot to mention that . They would come in the library of mosque sometimes and read Islamic books . as such they didn't had much of negative influence on me alhamdulilah .
i find some of your remarks encouraging but some very radical its a shame that religion can seperate humans from one another.
miss-islamic
21-03-07, 05:15 PM
Well men are allowed to marry them, the ahl-kitab atleast.
I don’t think one can come any closer than that.:rolleyes:
How close a friend can you be with a non-muslim?
The answer is not very close at all.
Remember we follow the example of Prophet Muhammed (saw), not follow our own desires. :coolbro:
The Believers and Disbelievers are not alike.
Two different people.
Two different paths.
Two different aims and aspirations.
and ultimately Two different Destinations.
If we keep in mind our ultimate goal; Al Jannah, then we have to purify ourselves in every way.
That doesnt mean you cant do Dawah with non-muslims, but to take them as friends, asscoiates, and allies and part of your inner circle is a grave mistake.
Remember the company you keep speaks volumes for the person (soul) that you are.
I find it hard to make friends with non-Muslims as our Worlds are complete opposites; the lifestyle they choose is contradictory to ours in most cases. Hence it makes no sense to have relations as their ideas of having a good time would make it against my religion (ie. going to clubs, parties, drinking, etc.) However, it does not mean you cannot enjoy their company in such things as sports or for school work. Still, I find it it much easier to click with Muslims as we share the same interests, ways of thinking and goals.
Islam is such an interesting religion.
This particular belief must present any number of remarkable challenges to reverts/converts to Islam who have non-Muslim parents, spouses, children, etc.
Imagine the cozy bedtime scene in which the revert/convert reads The Happiest Bunny, or some other bedtime story, to his tiny non-Muslim child. Father and child laugh together and enjoy the story, but, all too soon, the tiny non-Muslim needs to sleep. The father kisses the tiny non-Muslim good-night, but secretly thinks, "I must not get too close to this non-Muslim because, without doubt, he as a non-Muslim in his heart necessarily despises Islam, seeks its destruction, and would like nothing more than to lead me into the hellfire."
Imagine the even somewhat more challenging scene in which the revert/convert to Islam climbs into bed next to his non-Muslim spouse. Of course, they've shared the same bed very happily for many years, but now things are different. The non-Muslim spouse reaches out to embrace her Muslim hubby, but surely he must think, "I cannot allow myself to grow too close to this non-Muslim. It's certain that she harbors in her heart hatred toward Islam and Muslims and longs for the destruction of Islam. She would like nothing better than to lead me into shirk."
I mean, let's be honest. If you can't be "close friends" with a non-Muslim, you can't very well be a parent, child, or spouse of a non-Muslim. Those relationships are far closer than "close friends."
But a Muslim cannot marry a non-believer in the first place? Complete opposite mentality and that will affect the child negatively. I'm sure a child would become a Muslim if his father did - why wouldn't he?
But a Muslim cannot marry a non-believer in the first place? Complete opposite mentality and that will affect the child negatively. I'm sure a child would become a Muslim if his father did - why wouldn't he?
Take a few seconds to think.
Is it not possible for a non-Muslim who's already married to a non-Muslim, who has non-Muslim children and, possibly, non-Muslim grandchildren, to convert/revert to Islam?
In almost 1300 years of Islamic history, isn't possible that this has happened very often?
The Prophet (pbuh) didn't share His message to close the hearts and minds of humanity, or to make people less, rather than more, sophisticated in their thinking.
I'm not a Muslim, so please consider my thoughts and opinions in that light.
Take a few seconds to think.
Is it not possible for a non-Muslim who's already married to a non-Muslim, who has non-Muslim children and, possibly, non-Muslim grandchildren, to convert/revert to Islam?
In almost 1300 years of Islamic history, isn't possible that this has happened very often?
ummm *raises his hand*
I have taken the stance of, Allah calls those that he will. Insha allah my kids and their children will all be muslims but in the meantime all I can do is try to be an example
Barracuda
22-03-07, 06:10 AM
Well men are allowed to marry them, the ahl-kitab atleast.
I don’t think one can come any closer than that.:rolleyes:
That Divine Injunction is subject to conditions that must be met and it can also be subject to moratorium. 2nd Khalifa Umar bin Khattab put a moratorium during his Khilafat, prohibiting Muslims from marrying Ahl-ul-Kitab.
miss-islamic
23-03-07, 05:49 PM
Yes. But the point is the its halal to marry them so its debunks the whole idea the we have to hate or not be friends with non-Muslims. :)
But anyhow, they're all human, mostly very nice people ( ) and its "educational" if you get what I mean.
:) Indeed. I guess the point is that they should be the “good”; be it Muslim or non-Muslim. And,yes, educational in the respect the it makes one more open-minded and tolerant toward all people -- which should be a hallmark of all Muslims.:up:
I find it hard to make friends with non-Muslims as our Worlds are complete opposites; the lifestyle they choose is contradictory to ours in most cases. Hence it makes no sense to have relations as their ideas of having a good time would make it against my religion (ie. going to clubs, parties, drinking, etc.) However, it does not mean you cannot enjoy their company in such things as sports or for school work. Still, I find it it much easier to click with Muslims as we share the same interests, ways of thinking and goals.well it does not seem this common society we live in is going to get any better for all our,kaffirs,efforts.it seems the only resolve is for those who think this way is to live in a muslim country or conflict will be the ultimate end.dont start by replying im anti islamic for its your replies that create my anger.how can you be so superior to your neighbours as to judge them unfit for friendly contact.
.: Rashid :.
23-03-07, 07:54 PM
well it does not seem this common society we live in is going to get any better for all our,kaffirs,efforts.it seems the only resolve is for those who think this way is to live in a muslim country or conflict will be the ultimate end.dont start by replying im anti islamic for its your replies that create my anger.how can you be so superior to your neighbours as to judge them unfit for friendly contact.
He didn't say friendly contact. He said, he can't fit in with the overwhelming majority of kuffar, presumably OUR OWN AGE GROUP (i'm assuming much MUCH younger than you :p) who's major past times are things which are completely prohibited in our religion.
You sound like on of those who'd prefer Muslims abondoned their religion, started clubbing, binging etc the lot :rolleyes:
BTW I don't entirely agree with him...just mostly. Like I said, my friends are mostly kuffar and most of them spend most of their time doing things completely forbidden in Islam...I don't spend much time with them outside of school (doing said forbidden things...)
-Rashid
He didn't say friendly contact. He said, he can't fit in with the overwhelming majority of kuffar, presumably OUR OWN AGE GROUP (i'm assuming much MUCH younger than you :p) who's major past times are things which are completely prohibited in our religion.
You sound like on of those who'd prefer Muslims abondoned their religion, started clubbing, binging etc the lot :rolleyes:
BTW I don't entirely agree with him...just mostly. Like I said, my friends are mostly kuffar and most of them spend most of their time doing things completely forbidden in Islam...I don't spend much time with them outside of school (doing said forbidden things...)
-Rashidyou dont have to abadon your faith to love your neighbour.
.: Rashid :.
23-03-07, 08:20 PM
you dont have to abadon your faith to love your neighbour.
lets not complicate things by introducing the word love...stick with "being friendly".
Now, no one said muslims can't nor shouldn't be friendly with their kuffar neighbours. IF anyone did, I must've missed it. What some people said is they prefer to take Muslims as friends rather than kuffar, primarily because of similar interests, aims/goals etc
You'll find that the vast majority of human beings do prefer to associate with people who have things in common with them...
nothing strange
Not even your immediate crazy-Muslims-are-hate-filled-terrorists-knee-jerk reaction to this thread.
-Rashid
P3X-018
23-03-07, 08:20 PM
you dont have to abadon your faith to love your neighbour.
We're not saying "stay away from non-muslims". It's just that non-muslims spend their time doing things that is forbiddin for muslims. Having a "nice time" means, party, drinking, hanging around with girls, going disco's and etc. How are we then supposed to have a "nice time" with non-muslims. Everyone in my highschool was non-muslims, I only knew them at school, while they started knowing each other better and better through after school too, I didn't. Since they used to hang around togather, doing stuff that is not permissable for muslims, how could I then hang around with them like that. The only place I had something in common with them was computers. That was the only thing I could do with them besides studies.
That's why we can't just hang around with non-muslims having a "fun time". Since our interests are different.
But ofcourse this doesn't mean that we hate non-muslims. Not at all.
I find it hard to make friends with non-Muslims as our Worlds are complete opposites; the lifestyle they choose is contradictory to ours in most cases. Hence it makes no sense to have relations as their ideas of having a good time would make it against my religion (ie. going to clubs, parties, drinking, etc.) However, it does not mean you cannot enjoy their company in such things as sports or for school work. Still, I find it it much easier to click with Muslims as we share the same interests, ways of thinking and goals.
well it does not seem this common society we live in is going to get any better for all our,kaffirs,efforts.it seems the only resolve is for those who think this way is to live in a muslim country or conflict will be the ultimate end.dont start by replying im anti islamic for its your replies that create my anger.how can you be so superior to your neighbours as to judge them unfit for friendly contact. im surprised that rauls post offended u so much as its not just muslims who dont like to drink, or go to nightclubs and parties etc.
I know many people who do not indulge in such things and they are not muslims, and before i was muslim i had no interest in such pastimes, so lets not use peoples preferences to live a certain lifestyle as an excuse to say " well all u muslims better leave " mormons, jehovahs witnessess, and strict practising christians dont indulge in such pastimes to "have fun" either.. do u beleive that the christians that indulge in such things should also leave for a foreign land then .freindship ultimately is with people that u gel with, as the saying goes birds of a feather flock together, so each to their own.
lets not complicate things by introducing the word love...stick with "being friendly".
Now, no one said muslims can't nor shouldn't be friendly with their kuffar neighbours. IF anyone did, I must've missed it. What some people said is they prefer to take Muslims as friends rather than kuffar, primarily because of similar interests, aims/goals etc
You'll find that the vast majority of human beings do prefer to associate with people who have things in common with them...
nothing strange
Not even your immediate crazy-Muslims-are-hate-filled-terrorists-knee-jerk reaction to this thread.
-Rashidbut i dont make statements saying i would avoid them its totaly racialis of the worst kind.
.: Rashid :.
23-03-07, 11:14 PM
but i dont make statements saying i would avoid them its totaly racialis of the worst kind.
a) whats "racialis(t)" ^o)
b) Assuming you mean racist, no its not. People mix with people they like and have things in common with.
I avoid emos...emos aren't a race...they're just a type of people I don't like and don't want to be like nor associate myself with. I avoid them. Not racist.
You don't seem to be getting the idea here...you a bit slow? :o
-Rashid
a) whats "racialis(t)" ^o)
b) Assuming you mean racist, no its not. People mix with people they like and have things in common with.
I avoid emos...emos aren't a race...they're just a type of people I don't like and don't want to be like nor associate myself with. I avoid them. Not racist.
You don't seem to be getting the idea here...you a bit slow? :o
-Rashidyou avoiding people just because there not muslim in my opinion is racist and ide give way on the word racist, but not that its totaly unacceptable.could you imagine this country if we all chose not to associate in depth with muslims because we saw them as radical extremists. the devide wont improve with people of your opinion,your superior attitude shows even by the attention to my haste in spelling.
P3X-018
24-03-07, 04:50 PM
you avoiding people just because there not muslim in my opinion is racist and ide give way on the word racist, but not that its totaly unacceptable.could you imagine this country if we all chose not to associate in depth with muslims because we saw them as radical extremists. the devide wont improve with people of your opinion,your superior attitude shows even by the attention to my haste in spelling.
There's a difference between avoiding someone and not being best friend with someone. It's ok to be friend with a non-muslim, there is no harm in that, but you don't need to be with that person 24/7.
It's like comparing computer nerds to sports nerds. They don't hang around togather because they almost don't have anything in common. You can't call that "superior attitude" from either side. They just don't fit togather.
A practicing muslim wouldn't fit into a group of non-muslims. That's not being arrogant. It's just that they don't have much in common.
There's a difference between avoiding someone and not being best friend with someone. It's ok to be friend with a non-muslim, there is no harm in that, but you don't need to be with that person 24/7.
It's like comparing computer nerds to sports nerds. They don't hang around togather because they almost don't have anything in common. You can't call that "superior attitude" from either side. They just don't fit togather.
A practicing muslim wouldn't fit into a group of non-muslims. That's not being arrogant. It's just that they don't have much in common.you may be softening your approach but and until you find a non muslim worthy of your friendship the divide will endour,faith can not be a precurser to friendship.im not saying you must search out non muslims but you must be open to the opertunity and ive nevber been 24 7 as this modern term implies with my friends.a good friend is only someone you can trust above all others and you may not agree on all things but fate has chosen to help each other through lifes problems.if you reject him or her on faith you may never know true friendship.
P3X-018
24-03-07, 06:55 PM
you may be softening your approach but and until you find a non muslim worthy of your friendship the divide will endour,faith can not be a precurser to friendship.im not saying you must search out non muslims but you must be open to the opertunity and ive nevber been 24 7 as this modern term implies with my friends.a good friend is only someone you can trust above all others and you may not agree on all things but fate has chosen to help each other through lifes problems.if you reject him or her on faith you may never know true friendship.
As I said you can't have a computer nerd and a sports nerd to be best friends. They just don't fit togather. It's not like:
"Ohh brother we not allowed to be friend wid these infidels! They go hell!"
It's just that we have our differences. But I'm not saying we can't be friends with non-muslims, only that we can't be best friends, since we don't have the same interests.
To have a good friend as you describe, you must have something in common with each other to even be able to be such friends.
.: Rashid :.
24-03-07, 09:35 PM
you avoiding people just because there not muslim in my opinion is racist and ide give way on the word racist, but not that its totaly unacceptable.could you imagine this country if we all chose not to associate in depth with muslims because we saw them as radical extremists. the devide wont improve with people of your opinion,your superior attitude shows even by the attention to my haste in spelling.
First of all, if you read (can you read?) my posts you'd see I don't avoid kuffar...
Second of all, its not racist, purely because Islam isn't a race, nor is kufr.
And you really are bent on twisting this into some excuse to hate Muslims more aren't you? :rolleyes:
Superior attitude? :eek3: *sigh*
There's a difference between avoiding someone and not being best friend with someone. It's ok to be friend with a non-muslim, there is no harm in that, but you don't need to be with that person 24/7.
It's like comparing computer nerds to sports nerds. They don't hang around togather because they almost don't have anything in common. You can't call that "superior attitude" from either side. They just don't fit togather.
A practicing muslim wouldn't fit into a group of non-muslims. That's not being arrogant. It's just that they don't have much in common.
Exactly...
but akhi, give up. He won't get the picture...
-Rashid
First of all, if you read (can you read?) my posts you'd see I don't avoid kuffar...
Second of all, its not racist, purely because Islam isn't a race, nor is kufr.
And you really are bent on twisting this into some excuse to hate Muslims more aren't you? :rolleyes:
Superior attitude? :eek3: *sigh*
Exactly...
but akhi, give up. He won't get the picture...
-Rashidyes ignore your neighbours thoughts live in your confined world why is the bashing muslim comment always made in these discussions.its a racial remark or offence when it is directed at a faith creed ,colour or race.its alright for you to lump all kaffirs in the same bad light but not the reverse and whats worse you cant see it.
.: Rashid :.
25-03-07, 04:26 PM
yes ignore your neighbours thoughts live in your confined world why is the bashing muslim comment always made in these discussions.its a racial remark or offence when it is directed at a faith creed ,colour or race.its alright for you to lump all kaffirs in the same bad light but not the reverse and whats worse you cant see it.
Whatever I can't see I'm glad I can't see it...you must see a lot of **** when you look at the world through those (hate filled?) eyes of yours...
-Rashid
just making off topic observation sorry
You are your company.
.
how come no1 says that when ur company are successful, posh, polite muslims:scratch:
Whatever I can't see I'm glad I can't see it...you must see a lot of **** when you look at the world through those (hate filled?) eyes of yours...
-Rashidif you see hate in my words your amusing to say the least were have i insulted you or your faith.its you that are blinded by your non secular world were only muslims are worthy of your attention.
.: Rashid :.
25-03-07, 11:23 PM
if you see hate in my words your amusing to say the least were have i insulted you or your faith.its you that are blinded by your non secular world were only muslims are worthy of your attention.
now...where did I say that...?
Is it me that sees hate in people that don't have it...or you?
Anyhow, you're not amusing, unfortunately. Just boring :(
-Rashid
carol_au
26-03-07, 12:57 AM
you know, this issue is being made out to be a muslim/non muslim issue..but there would be very few practising Christians who can say they are sincerely close to a non Christian.
We were always encouraged to learn and grow and support each other.. the same reasons were given.. the actions and thoughts of the non Christian would not help the Christian grow.
This is the reason why Christian schooling is such an important part of many Christian children's lives .. just as an example
you know, this issue is being made out to be a muslim/non muslim issue..but there would be very few practising Christians who can say they are sincerely close to a non Christian.
We were always encouraged to learn and grow and support each other.. the same reasons were given.. the actions and thoughts of the non Christian would not help the Christian grow.
This is the reason why Christian schooling is such an important part of many Christian children's lives .. just as an examplewell all i can say is your rapt up in your own little world you can see no good in being a good friend to any one other than your restrictive minds will allow. now im anti christian i suppose.
.: Rashid :.
26-03-07, 05:50 PM
well all i can say is your rapt up in your own little world you can see no good in being a good friend to any one other than your restrictive minds will allow. now im anti christian i suppose.
no you're just narrow minded
-Rashid
no you're just narrow minded
-Rashidplease explain why i think people should be more open minded about friendship is narrow minded.
summer786
26-03-07, 07:35 PM
you know, this issue is being made out to be a muslim/non muslim issue..but there would be very few practising Christians who can say they are sincerely close to a non Christian.
We were always encouraged to learn and grow and support each other.. the same reasons were given.. the actions and thoughts of the non Christian would not help the Christian grow.
This is the reason why Christian schooling is such an important part of many Christian children's lives .. just as an example
I can see where you're coming from...I would want my kids to go to a Muslim school for exactly the same reasons.
.: Rashid :.
26-03-07, 07:36 PM
please explain why i think people should be more open minded about friendship is narrow minded.
i'm OK, thanks
-Rashid
they can never fully understand what being muslim is like... just because they ain't one... that's how close...
Na'eemah
27-03-07, 10:38 AM
Hmm, the non muslim friends I had in school were better than the muslim 'friends' :rubeyes:
they can never fully understand what being muslim is like... just because they ain't one... that's how close...
:up:
I dont like to do friendship with Non-Muslims form the begning (I don't Knwon Why)...l. May be Because we cant beleave them 100%.so it's very hard to keep them with us as friends...
carol_au
28-03-07, 01:50 AM
well all i can say is your rapt up in your own little world you can see no good in being a good friend to any one other than your restrictive minds will allow. now im anti christian i suppose.
It is interesting I told you that this is the typical christian response.. it's actually not mine. We never sent our sons to Christian schooling, but taught them at home because we had to, but even then we didn't choose Christian homeschooling.
I am a youth leader, but I chose not to be one in a church youth group, but actually am a leader in an organisation that does not support any particular group
My closest friends remain non Christians
so we don't all fit the stereotype I described before :)
:up:
I dont like to do friendship with Non-Muslims form the begning (I don't Knwon Why)...l. May be Because we cant beleave them 100%.so it's very hard to keep them with us as friends...
It's not that we dun or can't believe them, the word here is "belief", the belief is just different. Somtimes the 'difference' is so subtle people dun get it. We have to learn to agree on certian issues and also learn to agree to disagree on other issues.
I have to strongly say the meanings to the words... "same", "similar" and "different" have their own individual meaning, dun you agree?
We muslims will believe we are different from the non-muslims, yet the non-muslims will always try to convince us we are similar to them...:rubeyes: Who will be in the losing end in the end?
I have a classic example of a old girl friend who is a christain.. how much she practice her religion is not the issue here, but there was once i mentioned to her i dun, can't, won't (pick your choice of word) pork anymore.... she say what a pity... so poor thing... you see... she actually felt sympahtic towards me that i can't eat pork anymore.... do i need that? And how do i try to tell her the truth? I had to keep quiet for having the comment hailed at me. Do i need that?
Does any need pity or sympathy for having a preference? Do you call that a friend...? You tell me...
But I can tell you, if i value her opinion as a friend so much, i would have joined her in her meal... but... no jose way.... Allah is the greatest!
I can speak from both sides because I am a convert!
carol_au
28-03-07, 03:07 AM
Salaam
Actually it's a different story for me. You see, I was a well known Christian and therefore people had expectations of my behaviour. I could stand against what the average non Christian behaviour was like and maintain my stand, simply because I was a known Christian.
Infact, if I had changed my values for the people I was around.. then it would have had a very bad influence on my faith..
I chose to have non christian friends simply so I could expose them to my faith.
As Jesus described it.. "in the world, but not of the world"
Ruprecht
28-03-07, 03:21 AM
He didn't say friendly contact. He said, he can't fit in with the overwhelming majority of kuffar, presumably OUR OWN AGE GROUP (i'm assuming much MUCH younger than you :p) who's major past times are things which are completely prohibited in our religion.
You sound like on of those who'd prefer Muslims abondoned their religion, started clubbing, binging etc the lot :rolleyes:
BTW I don't entirely agree with him...just mostly. Like I said, my friends are mostly kuffar and most of them spend most of their time doing things completely forbidden in Islam...I don't spend much time with them outside of school (doing said forbidden things...)
-Rashid
Ahh yes that universal Kuffar lifestyle.
Now if you'll excuse me I've got to get back to snorting cocaine off this painted Jezebels backside...
Salaam
Actually it's a different story for me. You see, I was a well known Christian and therefore people had expectations of my behaviour. I could stand against what the average non Christian behaviour was like and maintain my stand, simply because I was a known Christian.
Infact, if I had changed my values for the people I was around.. then it would have had a very bad influence on my faith..
I chose to have non christian friends simply so I could expose them to my faith.
As Jesus described it.. "in the world, but not of the world"
Yup... you sure are living in your own world... and that's exactly where Allah will leave you... my friend... (dun think you'll understand what i mean) :rolleyes: but any how... you are still my friend.... :)
carol_au
28-03-07, 03:44 AM
Yup... you sure are living in your own world... and that's exactly where Allah will leave you... my friend... (dun think you'll understand what i mean) :rolleyes: but any how... you are still my friend.... :)
Sis,
Did you know i reverted?
Sis,
Did you know i reverted?
You...? To Islam...?
Ruprecht
28-03-07, 04:20 AM
You...? To Islam...?
Need some help picking your jaw up off the floor and extracting your foot from your mouth? :D
You...? To Islam...?
Yes alhamdulilah :up:
and sis be generous with words and deeds whether be it a muslim or non muslim :)
.: Rashid :.
28-03-07, 05:52 AM
Ahh yes that universal Kuffar lifestyle.
Now if you'll excuse me I've got to get back to snorting cocaine off this painted Jezebels backside...
Like I said, kuffar of our (or my) age group. I'll add on in England just to be safe :p (or more specifically where I live, south london)
The lifestyle of the average teenager here fits very much what I described... (less cocaine though, more weed :p)
Dunno what people my age in australia are like...are you telling me they're all/mostly angelic-non-weed-smoking-non-binge-drinking-non-music-obsessed-non-desperate
-to-lose-their-virginity-regardless-of-who-or-what-with?
-Rashid
Yes alhamdulilah :up:
and sis be generous with words and deeds whether be it a muslim or non muslim :)
Yes! This is the classic example where you have to be nice to non-muslims too cos you never know when they are intended by Allah to be your sis or bro one day!
Sis,
Did you know i reverted?
CONGRATULATIONS! SIS!
YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH YOU HAVE BEEN IN MY THOUGHTS... (THO MY WORDS MAY NOT HAVE BEEN KIND AND GENEROUS AS YOU MADE OUT) YOU WERE SO CLOSE... YOU MADE IT! I AM SO PROUD OF YOU!
HUGS AND KISSES!:D
sorry i have not been around much for a while.... i have missed a very special moment.... :crying2:
P3X-018
28-03-07, 09:13 AM
are you telling me they're all/mostly angelic-non-weed-smoking-non-binge-drinking-non-music-obsessed-non-desperate
-to-lose-their-virginity-regardless-of-who-or-what-with?
Since they're not, it's exactly why we don't fit togather. It's really simple, how can people misunderstand this? :D
Ruprecht
28-03-07, 02:45 PM
Like I said, kuffar of our (or my) age group. I'll add on in England just to be safe :p (or more specifically where I live, south london)
The lifestyle of the average teenager here fits very much what I described... (less cocaine though, more weed :p)
Dunno what people my age in australia are like...are you telling me they're all/mostly angelic-non-weed-smoking-non-binge-drinking-non-music-obsessed-non-desperate
-to-lose-their-virginity-regardless-of-who-or-what-with?
-Rashid
No-one said how close a friend can you be with your TYPICAL non-muslim.
You just have to make friends with the weirdos. :D
.: Rashid :.
28-03-07, 04:54 PM
No-one said how close a friend can you be with your TYPICAL non-muslim.
You just have to make friends with the weirdos. :D
:p
-Rashid
miss-islamic
28-03-07, 08:41 PM
I think I understands what both Xris and rashid 786 are saying.
If you both can bear with me to give my 2 cents,
Basically the non-religion/atheists are view is that religion divides the human-kind into more groups and so thats bad and own down for religion. But they are wrong. Humans are naturally into groups be being with those with the same ethnic, age, economic, political, music e.t..c groups.
But why add religion in the long list? Especially since religion suppose to be about love , mercy and all the good stuff.
I really think people should look past having relationship with somebody from another religion for the sake of conversion to or the phony “weathers nice, huh?”
Really if God forbid there is ever to be a “clash of civilization” anything that can stop that is if we can stop “religious” people or political leader dictate who can be our friend and enemy. If we can connect with each other as humans and on things we agree on then we will refuse to engage in a senseless warfare because will see the “enemy” as a human being. We have a lot nowadays to take advatantage of (e.g forums) to make that happen and it is more probable with the world being a Global village.
To quote an Iranian blog I read recently called “Dear enemy,”
We're probably friends; we may have met online a thousand times. we've played the same video games & laughed at the same sitcoms...we've been together for a long time now. & yet, there'll be a day soon, when you leave your town & come to mine & there, in the middle of fire & sand, we'll meet face to face...& you'll probably kill me.
I can't stop that, my friend; I just want to give you a little something to think about on your way back home. I just want you to say "i knew that guy...we'd met before".
http://dearenemy.blogspot.com/index.html (http://dearenemy.blogspot.com/index.html)
That is all. :D
P.S: do I sound preachy? God, I hate that.
vBulletin® v3.7.2, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.