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Saadet
02-03-07, 09:13 PM
Would you participate in the janaza of a girl who committed zina and was a crystal-meth addict? The girl was a Muslim.

(I forgot the poll on the other thread, some mod please delete it..)

ayeah-geeza
02-03-07, 09:18 PM
I would.. why not?? just to show respect to her loved once.

Medievalist
02-03-07, 10:39 PM
When 40 believers gather to pray over the dead muslim then ALLAH Ta'ala forgives the deceased. Today we pray over a sinner, tomorrow inshaALLAH someone comes and prays over us sinners.

Guvna
02-03-07, 10:42 PM
i would...... its not for me to say she is a sinner....!
only for allah to judge.. as a muslim.. its our duty to bury that person!

ibn suleman
02-03-07, 10:42 PM
We agree with doing the prayer behind any of the people of the qiblah whether right-acting or wrong-acting, and doing the funeral prayer over any of them when they die.

from aqueedah at-tahawiyyah

sapphire_blue
02-03-07, 11:01 PM
Nowt wrong with taking part in such a Janaza salah.

Who are we to judge? Allah (SWT) alone will judge her and us all.

Saadet
02-03-07, 11:02 PM
i would...... its not for me to say she is a sinner....!

Uhh...she was constantly committing zina and was a meth-addict...so yeah, she was a sinner..

sapphire_blue
02-03-07, 11:06 PM
Uhh...she was constantly committing zina and was a meth-addict...so yeah, she was a sinner..


It's not for us to judge her.

(*_Hamzah
02-03-07, 11:54 PM
Uhh...she was constantly committing zina and was a meth-addict...so yeah, she was a sinner..

Listen to the advice you've been given here akhy, and since you know about all her wrongs, did you learn this before or after he death?

Nazias
03-03-07, 12:02 AM
I think this whole thread is inappropriate. She may have repented, you do not know what is in heart. Allah(swt) is the best and only judge and the Prophet(saws) prayed janazah for many regardless of sins etc. Please stop exposing anothers sins as Allahu Alim.

Masumah
03-03-07, 12:14 AM
the only sinner who one shud not do janazah salah for is sum1 who sold alcohol knowingly and didnt feel any remorse in doing so. Also they wer not in a difficult position where they wer forced to sell alcohol. According to a mufti who came on IslamiQA on Islam Channel, janazah salah may well not be doen on such a person as a lesson to all other muslims so that they may ern that if u carry out a haraam act such as this then muslims will not pray over u.

i cannot remember the sheikhs name who gave the above ruling.

(*_Hamzah
03-03-07, 12:20 AM
the only sinner who one shud not do janazah salah for is sum1 who sold alcohol knowingly and didnt feel any remorse in doing so. Also they wer not in a difficult position where they wer forced to sell alcohol. According to a mufti who came on IslamiQA on Islam Channel, janazah salah may well not be doen on such a person as a lesson to all other muslims so that they may ern that if u carry out a haraam act such as this then muslims will not pray over u.

i cannot remember the sheikhs name who gave the above ruling.

Asssalam alaikum sister,

There are many sins associated with alcohol, is serving alcohol the same as selling it?

Saadet
03-03-07, 12:28 AM
Listen to the advice you've been given here akhy, and since you know about all her wrongs, did you learn this before or after he death?

After her death. Her mother allegedly strangled her to death.

(*_Hamzah
03-03-07, 12:31 AM
After her death. Her mother allegedly strangled her to death.

Give me the details for janaza I want to go if I can, :jkk:

Masumah
03-03-07, 12:37 AM
Asssalam alaikum sister,

There are many sins associated with alcohol, is serving alcohol the same as selling it?

allahu alam akhi the ruling mentioned in my post was the only rulin the sheikh gave regarding selling of alcohol since this was the question asked. sorri i dunno.

Ibn Sina
03-03-07, 03:34 AM
If the Prophet :saw: can lead the janaza of someone like Abdullah ibn Ubayy, the leader of the hypocrites I don't see why not ....

Te'oma
03-03-07, 04:31 AM
Insha allah her sins are forgiven but that is for Allah to be the judge of and he is the most fair.

Raul-7
03-03-07, 07:12 AM
Of course I would, as I would love the same to be done for me if I was in that situation.

As for alcohol, it's the same whether drunk or sold.

Allah's Messenger :saw: cursed ten people in connection with wine: the wine-presser, the one who has it pressed, the one who drinks it, the one who conveys it, the one to whom it is conveyed, the one who serves it, the one who sells it, the one who benefits from the price paid for it, the one who buys it, and the one for whom it is bought.

Abu Mus'ab
03-03-07, 09:47 AM
She was a sinner not a kaafir, so there's absolutely nothing wrong with attending her janazah.

Abu Mus'ab
03-03-07, 09:52 AM
Give me the details for janaza I want to go if I can, :jkk:
Exactly the same.

.: Rashid :.
03-03-07, 10:24 AM
I would. We're all sinners...some more than others. Whether you sin openly or not, or greatly or not everyone sins and its ONLY by the immense mercy of Allah that we even have a chance of attaining Jannah.

May Allah forgive this sister and all deceased Muslims. Ameen.

-Rashid

bint_ummi
03-03-07, 11:11 AM
if i went, inshallah allah would reward me for having good intentions. so that is why i would go

Al-Irhaab
03-03-07, 11:19 AM
what a stupid question...

since when has islam treated the sinner like the munafiq... :rolleyes:

of course you should go to her janaza, she was a muslim... regardless if she did bad deeds it is still incumbent upon the muslims to bury her and to pray over her and to ask allah (Swt) to forgive her....

just to note the point is not about judging her endplace... you can judge someone to be a sinner based upon their actions... but that sin does not make them kaafir nor does it mean that you treat them unjustly.. perhaps allah (Swt) will take away your chance at having anyone pray over you when you die naudhubillah

abdalmajid
03-03-07, 01:12 PM
Would you participate in the janaza of a girl who committed zina and was a crystal-meth addict? The girl was a Muslim.

(I forgot the poll on the other thread, some mod please delete it..)

salaams


now matter what sins a person has done we should attend their Janaza, because they are still muslim.

and inshallah next time dont make a poll or thread like this, telling us what sins a brother or sister has done. we should protect these brothers and sisters and help them out of situations not make it all public. it does not matter what the details are what someone has done is between that person and Allah (swt).

let me give you an example of something, lets say if you know someone and that person may have been a muslim you are not sure and others can not comfirm this some say that he/she was a muslim and others say no. in this situation it is correct for us to read janaza for them in case they were muslim, rather than saying we will not read cos we are not sure.

so that leaves no arrgument for this sister and if we should read or not the simple answer is we should

wa salaams

your bro

abdal majid ibn muhammad shafi

Saadet
03-03-07, 02:54 PM
perhaps allah (Swt) will take away your chance at having anyone pray over you when you die naudhubillah

That's possible, yes...

But I don't smoke crystal meth and attack my family members, so..

umm_huraiyrah
03-03-07, 03:06 PM
Would you participate in the janaza of a girl who committed zina and was a crystal-meth addict? The girl was a Muslim.

(I forgot the poll on the other thread, some mod please delete it..)

Salam Alaikum Saddet

Yes I would. Only because I know where she's at and I know how wicked that drug is. I was a meth addict for years. I finally quit Nov 4 1995. Borther let me tell you how wicked this crystal meth is. Not only does it destroy families, but it also destroys your body and mind in some way or another. With me I think it may be what has caused the fibromyalgia I have. Reason being was because all those nights and days I stayed Up. I did a lot with my muscles because I was always amped to clean house, walk everywhere, go out partying and dancing all night long, I truely thing I over used my muscles and tendonds and ligiments. Not only that but it also causes you to have meth mouth. (rotted teeth no matter how many times a day you brush thats stuff eats your teeth away) So I have also payed for that and at 34 i am in full dentures on top and partials on the bottom. Also I have an irregular heart beat and had mini heart attacks when dale and I first met. Do Janaza, dua, whatever it takes to help her get off of it. As a recovering addict if she'll talk to me I'd be happy to talk to her. Meth is most definitly a demon drug. It destroys families, friendships, jobs, school and your body. Really the so called chemist, look at what they are putting in this crap. Anhydrous Ammonia (which is wicked highly volitile fertilizer), acetone,I've even heard of break fluid being used and other dangerous chemicals. And I remember back in the 80's when they was making bathtub crank that stuff was made with that acid they use in swimming pools. This girl needs a lot more help then spiritual help. If she's in the states, I can help her get in the best drug treatment center in america. Hubby is a graduate and counselor there for 8 years after he graduated the treatment program. And dale can pull some strings for her. I pray she get's off the devils drug. Not just for her spiritual sake but for the sake of her health. I've seen so much from when I did it. From people o.d.ing, to going completely psycho, just doing crazy stuff. Unfortuanetly most people if they get off of it they always hit rock bottom before they realize they need to get off of it. I was one of those fortunate ones. And I cannot expres into words how much regret I have from using that stuff, because I'm really paying for it now with my health. I am going to pray for her in every prayer and dua. to be honest it makes me so sad (actually I'm in tears right now)to hear a sister has fallen into this addiction. It is a wicked addiction. please akhi if I can help in ANY WAY send me a private messege. Jazak'Allah Khair.

Habiba

wise1
03-03-07, 03:11 PM
It is NOT for us to judge ones sinns BUT for Allah and everyone deserves a Janaza.

uhkt_al'muminun
03-03-07, 03:36 PM
She was a sinner not a kaafir, so there's absolutely nothing wrong with attending her janazah.

exactly its that simple...shes a sinner.. all Bini Adam sin dont we? she was not a kafir!

Al-Bara bin Azib (r.a) reported: The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w) COMMANDED us to do seven things: to visit the sick, to follow the funeral (of a dead believer), to invoke the mercy upon Allah one who sneezes (yarhamuk-Allah), to support the weak, to help the oppressed, to promote the greeting 'Asalamualykum', and to help those who swear to do something to keep their oaths. (Al-Bukahari and Muslim)

May Allah have mercy on her and forgive us of all our sins
Allahuma'stain

Abu Mus'ab
03-03-07, 04:00 PM
That's possible, yes...

But I don't smoke crystal meth and attack my family members, so..
And you can still go to jahannam and she can go to jannah, don't think that just because you don't do that that you're now guaranteed jannah and she's guaranteed jahannam.

Chained_Water
03-03-07, 05:15 PM
If you don't have mercy for others, Allah(swt) won't have mercy for you.

I'm shocked this is even a quetsion.. subhanAllah.

We are all sinners, who is to say she is worse than you or anyone else?

Saadet
03-03-07, 06:06 PM
And you can still go to jahannam and she can go to jannah, don't think that just because you don't do that that you're now guaranteed jannah and she's guaranteed jahannam.

Some people on this board like to make assumptions...:rolleyes:

I never said I'm guaranteed jannah. In my opinion, I'm most likely guaranteed jahannam for a looong time...

However, don't talk about this issue unless you've had a family member addicted to crank. Don't sit on your goddamned high-horse and paint me as the bad guy because I think this girl was a munafiq. I lived with a meth-addict sibling for 7 years, so don't talk **** to me like, "oh, that poor girl, how could you even ask this question, wahwahwah.."

This girl's mother braved mine-fields and Russian soldiers to escape with her children from Chechnya. For what? So her meth-addict daughter could push her over the edge? So she can spend the rest of her life in a Canadian prison? So her son, who is confined to a wheelchair, can grow up without either parent (the children's father was killed by Russian soldiers years ago)?

I went to her goddamned janaza. But forget that, I'm the bad-guy...

That's all I'm gonna say on the subject, close this thread if you like.

umm_huraiyrah
03-03-07, 06:26 PM
And you can still go to jahannam and she can go to jannah, don't think that just because you don't do that that you're now guaranteed jannah and she's guaranteed jahannam.

Abu Mus'ab you are barking up the wrong tree. You don't know what it's like till you or a family member goes through what that poor girl has gone through. I posted my story of addiction no ones condeming me in here. What gives you the RIGHT TO JUDGE THE GIRL WEHN YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHATSOEVER ON WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT!!!!!

Habiba

Hamza Momand
03-03-07, 06:51 PM
yes y not
jinaza is just a dua
so making dua for her is not a sin

Ibn Sina
03-03-07, 06:51 PM
Abu Mus'ab you are barking up the wrong tree. You don't know what it's like till you or a family member goes through what that poor girl has gone through. I posted my story of addiction no ones condeming me in here. What gives you the RIGHT TO JUDGE THE GIRL WEHN YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHATSOEVER ON WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT!!!!!

Habiba

Ummmmm I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you misunderstood what he said.

Translation of what Abu Mus'ab said:

And you [Saadet] can still go to jahannam [hell] and she [the girl] can go to jannah [heaven], don't think that just because you don't do that that you're now guaranteed jannah [heaven] and she's guaranteed jahannam [hell].

Missy
03-03-07, 09:10 PM
I think it should be a just punishement whatever Islam decides, although i don't think i can personally take part.

Its the idea of hurting someone.

Abu Hurairah
03-03-07, 09:22 PM
Give me the details for janaza I want to go if I can, :jkk:
Same here- give me details of where and when insha'allah and if possible I will be there, like there is no janazah for her. *Rolls :rolleyes: Eyes*

May Allah (swt) forgive her sins and grant her a place in Jannah- Ameen.
After her death. Her mother allegedly strangled her to death.
If the allegations are true than her mother do a major evil more severe that her daughter's haram crystal meth and khamr consumption. :lahawla:

Abu Hurairah
03-03-07, 09:38 PM
Asssalam alaikum sister,

There are many sins associated with alcohol, is serving alcohol the same as selling it?
allahu alam akhi the ruling mentioned in my post was the only rulin the sheikh gave regarding selling of alcohol since this was the question asked. sorri i dunno.
In answer to the khamr question:

Allah's Messenger (saw) cursed ten people in connection with wine:

the wine-presser,
the one who has it pressed,
the one who drinks it,
the one who conveys it,
the one to whom it is conveyed,
the one who serves it,
the one who sells it,
the one who benefits from the price paid for it,
the one who buys it,
and the one for whom it is bought.

Hadith as-Sahih: al-Tirmidhi #2776, Narrated Anas ibn Malik (ra)
Ibn Majah transmitted it also.

Al-Irhaab
03-03-07, 11:36 PM
Some people on this board like to make assumptions...:rolleyes:

I never said I'm guaranteed jannah. In my opinion, I'm most likely guaranteed jahannam for a looong time...

However, don't talk about this issue unless you've had a family member addicted to crank. Don't sit on your goddamned high-horse and paint me as the bad guy because I think this girl was a munafiq. I lived with a meth-addict sibling for 7 years, so don't talk **** to me like, "oh, that poor girl, how could you even ask this question, wahwahwah.."

This girl's mother braved mine-fields and Russian soldiers to escape with her children from Chechnya. For what? So her meth-addict daughter could push her over the edge? So she can spend the rest of her life in a Canadian prison? So her son, who is confined to a wheelchair, can grow up without either parent (the children's father was killed by Russian soldiers years ago)?

I went to her goddamned janaza. But forget that, I'm the bad-guy...

That's all I'm gonna say on the subject, close this thread if you like.

doing bad actions does not make her a munafiq she is still a muslim..

and there is nothing god dammned about her janaza... :rolleyes:

Nusayba
04-03-07, 04:27 AM
Brother Saadett please dont speak of the dead inshaAllah. No matter how she sinned she's now with her lord u said u went to her janaza.

I would attend anyones funeral any muslim, but I dont think that women can pray the janazah prayer only go to the mosque I think and visit the family.

May Allah forgive the sister who died and May Allah SWT show her mercy and grant her relief, May Allah protect her from the torment of the grave and jahanam ameen.

Nazias
04-03-07, 07:46 AM
May Allah forgive the sister who died and May Allah SWT show her mercy and grant her relief, May Allah protect her from the torment of the grave and jahanam ameen.

Ameen.

dhakiyya
04-03-07, 09:02 AM
Brother Saadet,

I'm a bit confused about whether the janaza in question is for your sister, or that you had a sister who went through the same. If I got the family relations etc mixed up, the advice below still applies, just juggle the words around a bit to fit your situation inshaAllah.

Drugs are very evil, they cause immense suffering to the users of them and their families. People don't choose to become addicts, you only have to take some of them once of twice and you are hooked. Then the addict is plunged into a nightmare world, like Dana has described.

The fact that your family has suffered so much because of her addiction does not change the fact that she suffered immensely too, and the fact that she suffered so much does not change the horrific suffering of your family.

However the enemy here is not your sister, who is now dead and unable to change things, make amends, or even say sorry. The enemy is the shaytaan that whispered into your sisters heart and made her take the drugs that fed her addiction. The enemy is the drug industry where drug dealers and drug barons make huge amounts of money selling dangerous drugs to innocent young people (sometimes children as young as ten have become hooked on drugs.)

Do something positive, maybe you could join/give donations to an organisation that teaches kids of the dangers of drugs, to stop other families going through the hell you went through. Be there for your mother every way you can, she is still alive and needs your help. Focus on helping her and building a future for your family, and moving on. Do not let the shaytaan whisper into your hearts enflaming hatred you feel for your sister. Try try and try to forgive her. Okay thats very hard to do, and maybe it will take you a long time before you feel you can do that, but at least don't let the shaytaan whisper into your heart making you hate her more and more. She is after all your sister and she was a sinner but we are all sinners and being a sinner does not make you munafiq no matter how bad the sin, and she still deserves a proper janaza.

As to the responses people here have given, you did not say that the janaza was for a close family member. The assumption I made when I first read the question was that this was just someone in your community that you did not know very well, but who died cause of this horrible drug, so why would anyone be so judgemental of her? I assume the others on the thread thought they same.

May Allah give the affected families comfort, and make things easy for you all to rebuild your lives. May Allah protect you and your family and the families involed from the shaytaan and may Allah heal your pain and bless you all with happiness. May Allah protect us all from the temptation to take intoxicating drugs, and protect us all from all the other tricks of the shaytaan.

dhakiyya
04-03-07, 09:04 AM
May Allah forgive the sister who died and May Allah SWT show her mercy and grant her relief, May Allah protect her from the torment of the grave and jahanam ameen.

Ameen

ummbilal
04-03-07, 09:29 AM
Did she pray?
if not she was not a Muslim she was kufr and we dont attend the janaza of a non muslim except if it was close family who have not many to attend.
if she did pray regardless of what else she did she was a muslim, and i would attend.

muhammad atta
04-03-07, 10:41 AM
Did she pray?
if not she was not a Muslim she was kufr .
sorry but :scratch: what do you mean ? if you dont pray 5 times then your not muslim ?

.: Rashid :.
04-03-07, 11:55 AM
sorry but :scratch: what do you mean ? if you dont pray 5 times then your not muslim ?

Some ulamah argue that someone who doesn't pray is a kafir.

Its important to note that there are "degrees" of kufr (if thats the right word to use :S) so in this case not praying doesn't make you a kafir kafir like a christian, jew or athiest...but a kafir in that you dont pray...if that makes sense :S

I'm no scholar so its best to ask one. Allahu 'Alam (thats just my understanding/explanation given to me by someone...cant remember if they were an alim or not :o)

-Rashid

Chained_Water
04-03-07, 02:23 PM
Wow.. lets not be hasty.. there is a difference here.. someone who does not pray because they are neglecting it but know they should be praying and that its fardh is not a kaafir :smack:

But someone who thinks its ok not to pray and so doesn't pray and doesn't think it's necessary so they've rejected prayer.. well that is said to be an act of kufr.

So unless someone has said "I don't believe in praying 5 times a day".. go to their janaza even if you think they didnt pray!

Abu Mus'ab
04-03-07, 02:48 PM
Abu Mus'ab you are barking up the wrong tree. You don't know what it's like till you or a family member goes through what that poor girl has gone through. I posted my story of addiction no ones condeming me in here. What gives you the RIGHT TO JUDGE THE GIRL WEHN YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHATSOEVER ON WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT!!!!!

Habiba
erm what?

I think you've got the wrong person.

Read this post http://www.ummah.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1688202&postcount=34

Abu Mus'ab
04-03-07, 02:52 PM
Did she pray?
if not she was not a Muslim she was kufr and we dont attend the janaza of a non muslim except if it was close family who have not many to attend.
if she did pray regardless of what else she did she was a muslim, and i would attend.
Accoerding to the salafis.

Acoording to the hanafi madhab a person is still a muslim if they don't make salaah, and i can't remember what other madhab as well.

Abu Mus'ab
04-03-07, 02:58 PM
Some ulamah argue that someone who doesn't pray is a kafir.

Its important to note that there are "degrees" of kufr (if thats the right word to use :S) so in this case not praying doesn't make you a kafir kafir like a christian, jew or athiest...but a kafir in that you dont pray...if that makes sense :S

I'm no scholar so its best to ask one. Allahu 'Alam (thats just my understanding/explanation given to me by someone...cant remember if they were an alim or not :o)

-Rashid
Yes there are different degrees of kufr, kufr duna kufr (kufr below kufr) it's an act of kufr but it doesn't make you a kaafir, and kufr akbar, (major kufr) that makes you a kaafir.

There are probably other degrees as well.

Abu Mus'ab
04-03-07, 03:02 PM
sorry but :scratch: what do you mean ? if you dont pray 5 times then your not muslim ?
According to the salafis, and i think the hanbalis as well, a person that doesn't make salaah is a kaafir.

They base it upon the hadith "the difference between us (muslims) and the kuffaar is salaah"

i think that's how the hadith goes, but don't take my word for it, my memory is feling weak today so it might be wrong.

SeanBen
05-03-07, 07:47 PM
I think the main question is : WHAT WOULD MUHAMMED DO?

If he did then you should too; if he didn't then you can't.

Al-Irhaab
05-03-07, 07:54 PM
Accoerding to the salafis.

Acoording to the hanafi madhab a person is still a muslim if they don't make salaah, and i can't remember what other madhab as well.

nope according to all the madhaib and the salafis a person who doesnt pray is still a muslim up until the point that the conditions for making takfir on her have not been implemented... ie explanation by ulema, sitting down with a scholar who explains to her the deen etc and the obligation for prayer etc...

yes the difference between iman and kufr is salah... but thats not to say that automatically someone who doesnt pray becomes kaafir... :rolleyes:

Al-Irhaab
05-03-07, 07:55 PM
I think the main question is : WHAT WOULD MUHAMMED DO?

If he did then you should too; if he didn't then you can't.

actually in this situation that would not be the best advice... sometimes the prophet (saW) would not attend someones janazah because of their sins but would order the sahabi (Ra) to make janazah for him etc...

Abu Mus'ab
05-03-07, 07:58 PM
nope according to all the madhaib and the salafis a person who doesnt pray is still a muslim up until the point that the conditions for making takfir on her have not been implemented... ie explanation by ulema, sitting down with a scholar who explains to her the deen etc and the obligation for prayer etc...

yes the difference between iman and kufr is salah... but thats not to say that automatically someone who doesnt pray becomes kaafir... :rolleyes:
Not quite.

I've been to many salafi forums, and all of them with their ulema all say it makes you a kaafir.

Hmm try islamqa maybe they'll have a fatwa.

Saadet
06-03-07, 03:36 AM
Brother Saadet,

I'm a bit confused about whether the janaza in question is for your sister, or that you had a sister who went through the same. If I got the family relations etc mixed up, the advice below still applies, just juggle the words around a bit to fit your situation inshaAllah.

Yes, someone else approached me thinking that this was my sister, I guess my posts weren't clear on that. This was NOT my sister, this was just some 'Muslim' girl in our community. I had a sibling who was a meth-addict some years ago.

Drugs are very evil, they cause immense suffering to the users of them and their families. People don't choose to become addicts, you only have to take some of them once of twice and you are hooked. Then the addict is plunged into a nightmare world, like Dana has described.

I have to disagree there. People who are junkies choose to be junkies. Let me give you an example: I went to highschool with this guy named ShagDogg. ShagDogg was a crack dealer. In my second week of grade 9 (I was 15 at the time), ShagDogg came up to me and asked me if I'd like to smoke some crack. It was free for the first time, he assured me. So I thought for a moment and said, "No, thanks, ShagDogg." You see, I know what people addicted to amphetamines are like, I grew up with one, so I figured, 'no, I don't want to get addicted to crack, even if it is free the first time.' You see, when you make the concious decision to use a highly-addictive drug like crack or meth, you are accepting the very real, and very high, risk of becoming addicted to that drug.

With all due respect to sister Dana, she wasn't Muslim during her addiction. This now-deceased girl was supposed to be a Muslim and she made the concious decision to use meth.

Abu Mus'ab
06-03-07, 08:37 AM
nope according to all the madhaib and the salafis a person who doesnt pray is still a muslim up until the point that the conditions for making takfir on her have not been implemented... ie explanation by ulema, sitting down with a scholar who explains to her the deen etc and the obligation for prayer etc...

yes the difference between iman and kufr is salah... but thats not to say that automatically someone who doesnt pray becomes kaafir... :rolleyes:
See here, i was right.

Ruling on one who reads Qur’aan but does not pray

Question:
I used to read Qur’aan every day but I did not pray. I heard some people say that it is haraam for a person who does not pray to read Qur’aan, so I stopped reading Qur’aan. Is this right? Please advise us, may Allaah reward you with good.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Prayer is the greatest pillar of Islam after the Shahaadatayn. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Between a person and kufr and shirk stands the abandonment of prayer.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2766. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Maajah, 1078, and by al-Albaani).

Salaah is so called because it is a connection (silah) between a person and his Lord. Whoever does not pray, his zakaah, fasting, Hajj, jihaad, enjoining of what is good, forbidding of what is evil, reading of Qur’aan and upholding of family ties will not be accepted. Indeed, all his good deeds will be rejected if he does not pray.

The scholars, including Imaam Ahmad, said that whoever does not pray should be executed as a kaafir, and his body should not be washed or shrouded, the funeral prayer should not be offered over him, he should not be buried in the Muslims’ graveyard and his Muslim heirs cannot inherit from him.

It is not permissible for you to abandon prayer, because you never know when death will catch you unawares.

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said at the end of his life, during his final sickness:

“(Adhere to) prayer, (adhere to) prayer and (take care of) those whom your right hands possess (i.e., slaves).”

(Narrated by Imaam Ahmad, 3/117; Ibn Maajah, 2697; Ibn Hibbaan, 1220. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Irwaa’, no.2178).

Prayer is the pillar of Islam. Imaam Ahmad said: Your share of Islam is according to your share of prayer. What we want for you is for you to pray regularly, doing the prayers on time with the Muslims in their mosques. It is haraam for you to abandon prayer, for abandoning it is kufr. This issue has been discussed in great detail by the scholars in their books. And it was said that (the one who abandons prayer) is to be executed as a punishment, as is well known. And Allaah knows best.

Fataawa Samaahat al-Imaam ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Humayd, p. 86

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